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Look, I know the old ones are great for nostalgia, and the condition of being the originals automatically makes them "better". But the prequels are better films in every way. Deal with it.OfficialJabSay whaaaaaa?
The old ones were better, until they became infected with Ewoks. Cute and cuddly my ass.
Look, I know the old ones are great for nostalgia, and the condition of being the originals automatically makes them "better". But the prequels are better films in every way. Deal with it.OfficialJab
Please explain in an intelligent and detailed paragraph why the prequels are better films than the original trilogy .(if that is possible)
Look, I know the old ones are great for nostalgia, and the condition of being the originals automatically makes them "better". But the prequels are better films in every way. Deal with it.OfficialJab
Nah, I have to wholeheartedly disagree with you there. The new ones have better effects. The original movies had compelling characters that you actually cared about. I was shocked when Vader said "I am your father", I was elated when the Death Star blew up (both times) and I felt Luke's pain when he's trying to change Vader's evil ways in the 6th movies.
When Qui-gon died I was all "Meh, it was a cool sword-thrust". And when they all escaped that bug-planet in the second movie I just thought it was a well choreographed scene (and I was thinking about how hot Natalie Portman looked in that skin-tight white jumpsuit :wink: )
Overall, the first ones made you care. The new ones were just cool.
[QUOTE="OfficialJab"]Look, I know the old ones are great for nostalgia, and the condition of being the originals automatically makes them "better". But the prequels are better films in every way. Deal with it.Luncbox1
Nah, I have to wholeheartedly disagree with you there. The new ones have better effects. The original movies had compelling characters that you actually cared about. I was shocked when Vader said "I am your father", I was elated when the Death Star blew up (both times) and I felt Luke's pain when he's trying to change Vader's evil ways in the 6th movies.
When Qui-gon died I was all "Meh, it was a cool sword-thrust". And when they all escaped that bug-planet in the second movie I just thought it was a well choreographed scene (and I was thinking about how hot Natalie Portman looked in that skin-tight white jumpsuit :wink: )
Overall, the first ones made you care. The new ones were just cool.
Well said. I agree.:)
Anyone saying new star wars is just being silly, or should seek help immediately.duxupAnd because a mod said it, we shall treat it as gospel. Topic closed, thanks duxup!
[QUOTE="OfficialJab"]Look, I know the old ones are great for nostalgia, and the condition of being the originals automatically makes them "better". But the prequels are better films in every way. Deal with it.tccavey2
Please explain in an intelligent and detailed paragraph why the prequels are better films than the original trilogy .(if that is possible)
I'll do it in several, though I'm sure you'll just quote me shortly with some counterpoints and we'll be at this all day :D Just saying now I won't post again so as not to ruin the thread lolActing/casting: Even though Star Wars' scripts are never solid (true of the originals as well) the casts of the prequels carry it a long way. Liam Neeson, Ewan McGreggor and Hayden are all fantastic actors that are getting told to say some pretty bad lines, but they all made some of the scenes that would normally be the worst into good experiences. Neeson especially, is mostly what made Episode 1 my favourite. I'd say he's given the best performance by any actor in any Star Wars film. Ewan had to change a lot from 1 to 2, but did it well, he was an inquisitive and sometimes arrogant padwan and was great at being a convincing mentor to Anakin, especially in the scene outside the club. Then he topped them both in 3 when seeing his friend, like a son to him, turning to evil and completely forsaking him. He didn't falter a bit. Hayden finally, got incredible flak for Episode 2 with fans complaining about Anakin being a crybaby, when the character leap to Episode 3 would have made no sense at all. He was an adolescent with lots of expectations and lots of troubles facing him. Hayden brought out his young frustration well. Lines like "not fair" and "he just doesn't understand" are juvenille, but so is the character, and to alter his performance a little would have muddled the character transitions far too much. Only actor I couldn't stand was the child Anakin. He was awful haha.
Special Effects: Touchy since they are used everywhere in every move released since the originals, but it has to be covered, this is Star Wars, no? lol So, yes, the original's SE were covering new ground, but that does not make them instantly superior. The SE in the prequels allowed the movies in a futuristic, galactic age to be more than men in spaceships with laser guns. I'm not attacking the original's for the sake of the debate, that wouldn't be a fair fight =D. But the ailities of the artists working on the prequels allowed the universe to feel more full and immense, rather than just existing wherever the characters happened to be. There were worlds everywhere. The senate, the analysis archives, Order 66, we got to see the Star Wars universe in the prequels because things were possible that never were. It may be an old vs. new argument, but sadly, advancement is advancement. The pod race, the clone war, the final battle on Mustafar, would not have been possible without them.
Plot: The material covered isn't as easily comparable, but the intensity of the happenings are closer to equal here. The strong point of the originals ofcourse is Luke discovering the truth about Vader, and the prequels were about Anakin's growth and change from boy, to jedi, to the dark side. More plot lines don't make it inherently better, but depth of characters is important. The presence of the government and the politics in the prequels made a huge difference because again, it increases the scope to not only being about the main characters, but about the galaxy. You suddenly care about the fate of the galaxy when you can see it in front of you. You see and hear about all the planets and who lives on them, and there are more consequences and more to experience than just Luke and co... The love interest may not have been a popular aspect, but it was important and led to a great climax: The landing pad on Mustafar at the end of Ep 3 had an incredible performance by all 3 actors involved, "Please just come away with me, I love you!" "Liar!" "Let. Her. Go, Anakin." "You turned her against me!". Though the lines may not be Shakesperean, the actors have the necesarry intensity to make you care about what they are doing.
That's enough lol, this keyboard is so painful! I need to go ice my wrists or something! I didn't mean for my initial statement to be so 'final', sarcasm ofcourse doesn't traslate well without a word like zomg. It's all opinion but ^THAT^ is what makes me like the prequels FAR better than the originals. I really love that whole universe and episodes 4-6, but the prequels really hit me just the right way, and I couldn't accept the saga without those characters or scenes now.
Liam Neeson, Ewan McGregegor and Hayden are all fantastic actorsOfficialJab
No I'm sorry, I overlook a lot of the new movies shortcomings, but Hayden almost ruined Darth Vader for me, he was not convincing at all, worst of all Hayden make me just not care about what happened. I was sad when Qui-Gon Jinn died, because Liam Nesson was perfect for the role, and I actually like Episode I alot, but I found myself annoyed whenever Anakin was on screen, it should've been totally opposite.
[QUOTE="OfficialJab"]Liam Neeson, Ewan McGregegor and Hayden are all fantastic actorsSajo7
No I'm sorry, I overlook a lot of the new movies shortcomings, but Hayden almost ruined Darth Vader for me, he was not convincing at all, worst of all Hayden make me just not care about what happened. I was sad when Qui-Gon Jinn died, because Liam Nesson was perfect for the role, and I actually like Episode I alot, but I found myself annoyed whenever Anakin was on screen, it should've been totally opposite.
To each his own, but alot of his roles outside of Star Wars are way below him, and he definately was NOT sleeping through his scenes like some people *coughLeia*. But yeah, that's cool. I think he did well.All of them are awesome so its like asking would you like pizza or pizza with extra chess if you know what i mean.
Old ones win 4 sure but i like the new ones also because of the visual appeal.
Phenom316
Well what if they can't play Chess?
I'll do it in several, though I'm sure you'll just quote me shortly with some counterpoints and we'll be at this all day :D Just saying now I won't post again so as not to ruin the thread lol. Acting/casting: Even though Star Wars' scripts are never solid (true of the originals as well) the casts of the prequels carry it a long way. Liam Neeson, Ewan McGreggor and Hayden are all fantastic actors that are getting told to say some pretty bad lines, but they all made some of the scenes that would normally be the worst into good experiences. Neeson especially, is mostly what made Episode 1 my favourite. I'd say he's given the best performance by any actor in any Star Wars film. Ewan had to change a lot from 1 to 2, but did it well, he was an inquisitive and sometimes arrogant padwan and was great at being a convincing mentor to Anakin, especially in the scene outside the club. Then he topped them both in 3 when seeing his friend, like a son to him, turning to evil and completely forsaking him. He didn't falter a bit. Hayden finally, got incredible flak for Episode 2 with fans complaining about Anakin being a crybaby, when the character leap to Episode 3 would have made no sense at all. He was an adolescent with lots of expectations and lots of troubles facing him. Hayden brought out his young frustration well. Lines like "not fair" and "he just doesn't understand" are juvenille, but so is the character, and to alter his performance a little would have muddled the character transitions far too much. Only actor I couldn't stand was the child Anakin. He was awful haha.OfficialJabwhat about alec guiness,james earl jones, harrison ford, and peter cushing? all fantastic actors who did amazingly well for the scripts given to them. and no matter which way you look at it, hayden is not a good actor. he could be given a script of shakespearean quality and still ruin it.
Special Effects: Touchy since they are used everywhere in every move released since the originals, but it has to be covered, this is Star Wars, no? lol So, yes, the original's SE were covering new ground, but that does not make them instantly superior. The SE in the prequels allowed the movies in a futuristic, galactic age to be more than men in spaceships with laser guns. I'm not attacking the original's for the sake of the debate, that wouldn't be a fair fight =D. But the ailities of the artists working on the prequels allowed the universe to feel more full and immense, rather than just existing wherever the characters happened to be. There were worlds everywhere. The senate, the analysis archives, Order 66, we got to see the Star Wars universe in the prequels because things were possible that never were. It may be an old vs. new argument, but sadly, advancement is advancement. The pod race, the clone war, the final battle on Mustafar, would not have been possible without them. OfficialJabyou can't argue the special effects in the movies. there's a 30 year gap from when the movies were made, huge advances in special effects were made in that time frame, largely due to star wars. the special effects in the OT were years ahead of it's time. it just had more of a wow factor then the PT special effects.
Plot: The material covered isn't as easily comparable, but the intensity of the happenings are closer to equal here. The strong point of the originals ofcourse is Luke discovering the truth about Vader, and the prequels were about Anakin's growth and change from boy, to jedi, to the dark side. More plot lines don't make it inherently better, but depth of characters is important. The presence of the government and the politics in the prequels made a huge difference because again, it increases the scope to not only being about the main characters, but about the galaxy. You suddenly care about the fate of the galaxy when you can see it in front of you. You see and hear about all the planets and who lives on them, and there are more consequences and more to experience than just Luke and co... The love interest may not have been a popular aspect, but it was important and led to a great climax: The landing pad on Mustafar at the end of Ep 3 had an incredible performance by all 3 actors involved, "Please just come away with me, I love you!" "Liar!" "Let. Her. Go, Anakin." "You turned her against me!". Though the lines may not be Shakesperean, the actors have the necesarry intensity to make you care about what they are doing.That's enough lol, this keyboard is so painful! I need to go ice my wrists or something! I didn't mean for my initial statement to be so 'final', sarcasm ofcourse doesn't traslate well without a word like zomg. It's all opinion but ^THAT^ is what makes me like the prequels FAR better than the originals. I really love that whole universe and episodes 4-6, but the prequels really hit me just the right way, and I couldn't accept the saga without those characters or scenes now. OfficialJabthe plot lines in the OT were also better. lukes journey to become a jedi and redeem his father, han and leia's love story, rescuing han from jabba, finally killing the emperor, etc. all of them were infinitely better then anything the prequels had to offer. and let's forget how big of a pimp han solo is. "i love you." " i know."
Alright dang nabbit....
First off whoever ACTUALLY said Hayden was a good actor almost made me spit Honey Smacks all over my damn laptop. Literally.
The end scenes in Episode 3 were great interacion, but Haydens anger scenes were god awful. He cant act. Period. I LOVE anything Star Wars, and they can do no wrong in my eyes. But to even question which are better is goofy. The only downfall the originals have is the time when they were made. Take the actors from them, bring them to the future, and make the movies now.... They would be the greatest movies ever made.
And the final reason that has yet to be said (unless i missed it) THE WORST PART in the history of Star Wars was when they made poor James Earl Jones do the horrible NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO at the end of III.
Plus there was NO non Jediesque Heroes in the new ones. No SOLO!!! OH Hell NO!
Whew, I'm tired but I really feel the need to address some of these points, being the hardcore SW nerd that I am.....(this is in response to Official Jab....sorry man, I don't know how to individual quote).
Acting/casting: Even though Star Wars' scripts are never solid (true of the originals as well) the casts of the prequels carry it a long way. Liam Neeson, Ewan McGreggor and Hayden are all fantastic actors that are getting told to say some pretty bad lines, but they all made some of the scenes that would normally be the worst into good experiences. Neeson especially, is mostly what made Episode 1 my favourite. I'd say he's given the best performance by any actor in any Star Wars film. Ewan had to change a lot from 1 to 2, but did it well, he was an inquisitive and sometimes arrogant padwan and was great at being a convincing mentor to Anakin, especially in the scene outside the club. Then he topped them both in 3 when seeing his friend, like a son to him, turning to evil and completely forsaking him. He didn't falter a bit. Hayden finally, got incredibleflak for Episode 2 with fans complaining about Anakin being a crybaby, when the character leap to Episode 3 would have made no sense at all. He was an adolescent with lots of expectations and lots of troubles facing him. Hayden brought out his young frustration well. Lines like "not fair" and "he just doesn't understand" are juvenille, but so is the character, and to alter his performance a little would have muddled the character transitions far too much. Only actor I couldn't stand was the child Anakin. He was awful haha.
I would agree that the casting wasn't bad (aside from Hayden), however one crucial element was missing that was very apparent in the original trilogy: chemistry. All of the actors fed off of one another and complimented and/or compensated for the others' flaws/strengths in the originals, which consequently made them more likeable and therefor easier to care about them. There was very little chemistry between the actors in the new films. Also, the dialouge in the new episodes was for the most part terrible, not to mention nearly every single line felt forced. I agree that Neeson and Ewan were the highlights of the new films given what they had to work with, and also that Ewan played a great mentor, however Liam was nowhere nearthe best character in all of the movies by any stretch......Alec Guiness is simply unbeatable, there's no contest in my eyes. Hayden was plain awful, awful, AWFUL through the entire series. He did not carry the weight of the role at all, there was no burden or any real feeling of sincere conflict within him. He never really looked torn apart with conflict until the very end of the third film, and it was conveyed in very simple, superficial ways. Sure, there were scenes here and there that showed his propensity for anger ("I slaughtered them like animals!!!!"), but afterwards he seemed to not have been affected at all. For a man falling into darkness, he could have just as well been in mourning for his cat dying from what I saw.
Special Effects: Touchy since they are used everywhere in every move released since the originals, but it has to be covered, this is Star Wars, no? lol So, yes, the original's SE were covering new ground, but that does not make them instantly superior. The SE in the prequels allowed the movies in a futuristic, galactic age to be more than men in spaceships with laser guns. I'm not attacking the original's for the sake of the debate, that wouldn't be a fair fight =D. But the ailities of the artists working on the prequels allowed the universe to feel more full and immense, rather than just existing wherever the characters happened to be. There were worlds everywhere. The senate, the analysis archives, Order 66, we got to see the Star Wars universe in the prequels because things were possible that never were. It may be an old vs. new argument, but sadly, advancement is advancement. The pod race, the clone war, the final battle on Mustafar, would not have been possible without them.
Advancement solely for the sake of advancement is not always a good thing. I think the decision to use new CGI effects was a terrible decision, and personally would have kept CGI use to an absolute minimum. There was absolutely no continuity to the universe, and it felt like a different one completely. Sure, there were some areas and worlds that would need the assistance of CGI, however it should not have been exclusively CGI. There were all these wild shots that were completely unnecessary to convey what was needed. It was overkill. The old battle scenes and dog fights were so much more exhilarating to witness in the originals; they were better directed and tenser. The trench scene is still amazing to watch, and is so basic. In the new films, there were so many wizz bang effects. In the old battle scenes, there seemed to be more of a human element in the dog fights. I don't know how to describe it, but it was so much more focused. Luke racing down the trench with vader on his tail nailing the vent at the last second with his torpedoes was AWESOME compared to seeing 200 digital fighters swarming all over the place with bugs crawling over Anakin's ship while he quips one liners. There was not a single space scene in all three episodes that matched the asteroid scene in Empire Strikes Back (nope, not even the new one with Jango Fett). The models gave weight to the shots, did not look synthetic, were not out of the factory clean and were overall better designed.
Plot: The material covered isn't as easily comparable, but the intensity of the happenings are closer to equal here. The strong point of the originals ofcourse is Luke discovering the truth about Vader, and the prequels were about Anakin's growth and change from boy, to jedi, to the dark side. More plot lines don't make it inherently better, but depth of characters is important. The presence of the government and the politics in the prequels made a huge difference because again, it increases the scope to not only being about the main characters, but about the galaxy. You suddenly care about the fate of the galaxy when you can seeit in front of you. You see and hear about all the planets and who lives on them, and there are more consequences and more to experience than just Luke and co... The love interest may not have been a popular aspect, but it was important and led to a great climax: The landing pad on Mustafar at the end of Ep 3 had an incredible performance by all 3 actors involved, "Please just come away with me, I love you!" "Liar!" "Let. Her. Go, Anakin." "You turned her against me!". Though the lines may not be Shakesperean, the actors have the necesarry intensity to make you care about what they are doing.
Well, I can't much disagree with you here, as the plot is what makes Star Wars what it is. I especially liked the fact that Anakin ending up killing Padme by going to the dark side when he believed that by doing so he would be saving her. Irony at it's finest. But even given the depth of the plot, that depth of the characters and the universe can only be cared about if the actors playing their respective parts are able and capable to do their jobs well. The acting in prequels did not come close to accomplishing this. It was cringe worthy for the most part. I was trying so hard to enjoy the story and learn more about the galaxy and characters until their utter inability to perform convincingly pulled me right out of it. They can make a movie as in-depth as humanly possible, but if the tools to convey that depth are absent, it's all in vain. I would have loved to get more into the love story if Anakin and Padme's courtship (which was one of the main plot details) didn't come off like a brother and sister being forced to be together and then having them pretend to like each other. And don't get me started on Anakin's "acting" at the end.....ugh. The lightsaber fight in the end was "cool", but again, it held no continuity with the old films.
That's enough lol, this keyboard is so painful! I need to go ice my wrists or something! I didn't mean for my initial statement to be so 'final', sarcasm ofcourse doesn't traslate well without a word like zomg. It's all opinion but ^THAT^ is what makes me like the prequels FAR better than the originals. I really love that whole universe and episodes 4-6, but the prequels really hit me just the right way, and I couldn't accept the saga without those characters or scenes now.
Just wanted to put my opinions out there, I need ice as well. Sorry if I went on a rant, I just love discussing SW allll night long. :)
I have no real preference but i enjoyed the Prequels greatly. The biggest problem is the "Nostalgia Factor", this happens often with remakes. People get pissed because Godzilla isnt a guy in a suit, or that the Jupiter actually looks like a ship instead of a frisbee, etc. etc.
The same applies to the Prequels. There are new characters, and people walked in (some people) expecting Han Solo 2.0. Not gonna happen. As for Anakin's Actor. Only a small notch under Luke's "But i wanted to get some powerrr conveeerteeers". I swear it sounds like Mark Hamills nose is plugged up full of flem for all of ANH.
The Pacing of ANH is similiar to The Phantom Menace. The Environment change is around equal between the movies however Ep 1 pulls of greater feats with the first feature of the Planet Courscaunt. The big difference between these two movies is in the OT the thought of Jedi and laser swords was new to everyone. When Ep 1 came out, it wasnt. So when people are watching it, they arent shocked and amazed like they were with the OT.
The NT still presents interesting and involving plot points to those who pay attention, especially on the political level. Learning Palpatines involvement, dual persuasion and the history of the Sith are all woven into the background of the story. The Jedi are also very fleshed out and are accurately given the appearence of being in their "Prime" with the faster-paced lightsaber combat. Character Development is also good with Obi-Wan Kenobi (Played brilliantly by Ewan McGreggor), Palpatine (Ian McDiarmid), Anakin Skywalker (I particularly like the Tusken Villiage scene and the aftermath), and even secondary Characters such as Mace Windu who is portrayed as a stiff Authoritarian character get some development.
I think the acting is on part with the OT with some exceptions. However, the work of Ewan, Ian, Oz, and even Jackson is very masturful. I particularly like Hayden's acting in Ep 2 and Ep 3, he's good when he needs to be. Unrealized that it is, i love his portrayel in the Tusken scene and all of Episode 3 with his gradual fall and lust for power ever prevelant. He's young and ambitious and that came across pretty well. The Love Scenes were somewhat atrocious but they werent exactly numerous in the OT either (And we didnt have Irvin Kirshners help in the NT). The main problem was that the characters in the NT werent all confined in a single ship for a good portion of the movies, they were often spread out and split up minus Ep. 1, which makes it harder to portray tension, especially sexual tension, between multiple characters. This is why it is somewhat forced with the Anakin sweeping away padme to the obvious location of her homeworld to protect her from assassins.
The NT has weakpoints, but so does the OT. Essentially the Entire Planet of Endor in Return, Large portions of ANH can be slow (especially those pertaining to R2 and 3P0, fun the first time, tedious on multiple viewings). The only OT that can be claimed as Masterful is Empire Strikes Back, and that is *heavily* due to the masterful work of a god among Directors, Irving Kirshner, whom is never seen again in SW after ESB.
Another negative against the NT is that they are "Prequels". Inherent in prequels, is knowing exactly what's suppose to happen. This leads to many preconceptions and expectations to the script and plot and can lead to dissapointment when things dont happen "their way". I think this among the nostalgia factor heavily contributed to some people hating the NT.
Addendum: Note that there are still many people who appreciate the Prequels. Of them, generally only Attack of the Clones is seen as a weak point within the prequels. A Slow start and drawn out attrocious love scenes attribute to this. Though often the last half of the movie saves it, with a prelude to anakin's fall, the clone wars battle, and Yoda's fight scene at the end.
Episode 1 was a cinematic abomination. Manakin Skywalker was an emotionless, poorly acted role by a kid who never should have got the role to begin with.
Episode 2 sucked equally for different reasons.
Episode 3 was "decent" and by decent i mean like "i didnt throw my popcorn up" decent.
The old ones were terrible movies but because i was younger i loved them and to this day they at least have that "adventure" atmosphere that saves them from the shoddy dialogue, bad acting, poorly scripted events, bad editing etc etc.
In short
Old > new.
[QUOTE="indian_playa"]i prefer the new trilogy. the tranformation of Anakin to Vader > tranformation of poor boy Luke to Jedi Skywalker imodooly420the transformation of vader to anakin > the transformation of anakin to vader.Not really. When you see the transformation from anakin to vader, you can relate to him alot more. you are put into the mind of him and watch as he slowly transforms into the darkside. I really didn't feel anything in the transformation from vader to anakin.
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