If they legalized marijuana thegovernment could tax it, law enforcement could concentrate on the other illegal substances, and people suddenly out of the black market job, can get a real legal job which would also help the economy. But I wouldn't expect this to happen until the job market improves.
Who else is optimistic that marijuana prohibition could end by 2011?
This topic is locked from further discussion.
yea the post are coming kind of fast. But you know why people are in rehab for marijuana? some just have that addictive personality which they can be addicted to anything illegal or not. And the majority of people that are in rehab for marijuana are only there because they got busted and it will reduce their sentence/fine, taxdollars at work.... Marijuana is not physically addictive.[QUOTE="jimbojones_sw"]
[QUOTE="MoonMarvel"]
Check my response first.
MoonMarvel
It is mentally addictive, however, and that is equally as bad. Also, if you want to read about the bad effects of marijuana, please go to this link:
http://www.addict-help.com/marijuana.asp
These people work with addicts and prevention of drugs, so I think they can be trusted in this matter. What the question really boils down to is WHY legalize marijuana? Why introduce another drug into the world, because some people want it? With that disposition, legalizing meth and angel dust and heroin and cocaine falls into the same category. Tobaccois bad enough.
yea give me a link to a page that is trying to sell me help and that sources wikipedia. And it says those who abuse marijuana that does not mean marijuana is its self bad I could abuse dayquil and still need help that does not mean dayquil is bad. The question really is what is the reason for keeping it illegal, and you most certainly would not be introducing any 'new' drug into the world. A lot of countries have it legalized and many children state that it is actually easier for them to get marijuana then alcohol because marijuana unlike alcohol is not regulated a drug dealer does not care how old you are, and will often pressure users into harder drugs. lealization and regulation is key.yea the post are coming kind of fast. But you know why people are in rehab for marijuana? some just have that addictive personality which they can be addicted to anything illegal or not. And the majority of people that are in rehab for marijuana are only there because they got busted and it will reduce their sentence/fine, taxdollars at work.... Marijuana is not physically addictive.[QUOTE="jimbojones_sw"]
[QUOTE="MoonMarvel"]
Check my response first.
jimbojones_sw
It is mentally addictive, however, and that is equally as bad. Also, if you want to read about the bad effects of marijuana, please go to this link:
http://www.addict-help.com/marijuana.asp
These people work with addicts and prevention of drugs, so I think they can be trusted in this matter. What the question really boils down to is WHY legalize marijuana? Why introduce another drug into the world, because some people want it? With that disposition, legalizing meth and angel dust and heroin and cocaine falls into the same category. Tobaccois bad enough.
What? I didn't write this. Stop editing crap I don't postyea the post are coming kind of fast. But you know why people are in rehab for marijuana? some just have that addictive personality which they can be addicted to anything illegal or not. And the majority of people that are in rehab for marijuana are only there because they got busted and it will reduce their sentence/fine, taxdollars at work.... Marijuana is not physically addictive.[QUOTE="rob1101"][QUOTE="calvinsora"]
Check my response first.
calvinsora
It is mentally addictive, however, and that is equally as bad. Also, if you want to read about the bad effects of marijuana, please go to this link:
http://www.addict-help.com/marijuana.asp
These people work with addicts and prevention of drugs, so I think they can be trusted in this matter. What the question really boils down to is WHY legalize marijuana? Why introduce another drug into the world, because some people want it? With that disposition, legalizing meth and angel dust and heroin and cocaine falls into the same category. Tobaccois bad enough.
According to that site, the withdrawal symptoms include irritability, sleeplessness, decreased appetite, anxiety, and drug craving, and they all last about 2-3 weeks. That might sound bad, but lets compare this with use of prescription meds, all of which are legal.Benzodiazepines - There are a LOT of really horrific symptoms, so i'm just going to list the major ones: tremors/muscle spasms, more serious convulsions that can lead to death, hypnagogia hallucinations, depersonalization, and much more
SSRI's - sexual dysfunction, dysphoria, depersonalization, panic attacks, severe depression (crying spells and mood swings), and more
Opiates - vomiting, diarrhea, sweating, abdominal pain/cramps
And of course, here's what happens when you go through alcohol withdrawal: catatonia, nausea/vomiting, sweating, irritability, insomnia, delirium, anxiety/panic attacks, headaches, and possibly even seizures.
Now tell me, do you really thing that the mental addiction of marijuana is equally bad the physical addiction to all of these legal substances?
[QUOTE="MoonMarvel"][QUOTE="jimbojones_sw"] yea the post are coming kind of fast. But you know why people are in rehab for marijuana? some just have that addictive personality which they can be addicted to anything illegal or not. And the majority of people that are in rehab for marijuana are only there because they got busted and it will reduce their sentence/fine, taxdollars at work.... Marijuana is not physically addictive. rob1101
It is mentally addictive, however, and that is equally as bad. Also, if you want to read about the bad effects of marijuana, please go to this link:
http://www.addict-help.com/marijuana.asp
These people work with addicts and prevention of drugs, so I think they can be trusted in this matter. What the question really boils down to is WHY legalize marijuana? Why introduce another drug into the world, because some people want it? With that disposition, legalizing meth and angel dust and heroin and cocaine falls into the same category. Tobaccois bad enough.
yea give me a link to a page that is trying to sell me help and that sources wikipedia. And it says those who abuse marijuana that does not mean marijuana is its self bad I could abuse dayquil and still need help that does not mean dayquil is bad. The question really is what is the reason for keeping it illegal, and you most certainly would not be introducing any 'new' drug into the world. A lot of countries have it legalized and many children state that it is actually easier for them to get marijuana then alcohol because marijuana unlike alcohol is not regulated a drug dealer does not care how old you are, and will often pressure users into harder drugs. lealization and regulation is key. How did my name get in there? I didn't say any of that.mental addictions are nothing. but unfortunately no one has will power in this day and age so they can't beat it. but physical addictions..... ah yes. bad stuff there. can't fight a physical addiction no matter the will power.
I for one am with California and a few other state considering legalization.
rob1101
Someone told me that my shoes were made of hemp. I'm such a bad ass, I wear illegal shoes...
[QUOTE="-xPANICx-"]your response is totally irrelevant to my original post. i am keeping the plants separate (one isharmful) (other isbeneficial). YOU got it wrong, im not defending the statement that tobacco isnt harmful your just assuming it. No you got it wrong and are trying to talk your way around it. Lets start here, why did I make the original comment about tobacco in the first place? Start there and see where you went wrong with this. the intention of your original post was to basicaly state that marijuana is harmful. i say its not. maby you have it backwards, i dont.[QUOTE="MoonMarvel"] You went back how many pages to respond to that? And got it wrong? Again, Tobacco doesn't need chemicals to cause cancer, it does that on its own. So with or without those chemicals cigarettes would STILL be harmful. They didn't know that a long time ago, which is why tobacco should not be used in an argument FOR weed. Maybe it would be better for you to keep those 2 plants seperate.MoonMarvel
[QUOTE="MoonMarvel"][QUOTE="-xPANICx-"]your response is totally irrelevant to my original post. i am keeping the plants separate (one isharmful) (other isbeneficial). YOU got it wrong, im not defending the statement that tobacco isnt harmful your just assuming it.
No you got it wrong and are trying to talk your way around it. Lets start here, why did I make the original comment about tobacco in the first place? Start there and see where you went wrong with this. the intention of your original post was to basicaly state that marijuana is harmful. i say its not. maby you have it backwards, i dont. You go back to comment on this after how long and still got it wrong? You don't even have it close at all. Feel free to try again and then I will tell you what I really meant.[QUOTE="Risitance"]Ummmm....You do know Tabacco was seen as harmless not that long ago right? So you might not want to use that one.your saying tobacco was considered not harmful in the past, so basically you are saying marijuana is harmful. hence. "So you might not want to use that one."If acohol and tobacco is legal so should Marijuana.
MoonMarvel
What i said was that marijuana is not as harmful as cigarettes so that argument is still logical.
i have no idea wher your going with this, but yourgoingto go back and forth.
[QUOTE="MoonMarvel"][QUOTE="Risitance"]
If acohol and tobacco is legal so should Marijuana.
Ummmm....You do know Tabacco was seen as harmless not that long ago right? So you might not want to use that one.your saying tobacco was considered not harmful in the past, so basically you are saying marijuana is harmful. hence. "So you might not want to use that one."What i said was that marijuana is not as harmful as cigarettes so that argument is still logical.
i have no idea wher your going with this, but yourgoingto go back and forth.
Putting words in my mouth are you? You are still way off so let me correct you so this can end ok? Tobacco at first was thought of as harmless, by the time they found out the product was harmful the industry grew to powerful to ban. Got it? Ok, With that fact why should tobacoo being legal not be used? Simple, people like you claim weed is harmless and use Tobacoo to support making weed legal by doing so allowing people against weed to say well tobacoo was thought of harmless too, they will then use that as leverage to keep weed illegal and study it until everything is known about which could take a long time. So its better to just not use that argument. Nowhere in there did I say what you claim. Simple as pie.[QUOTE="-xPANICx-"]your saying tobacco was considered not harmful in the past, so basically you are saying marijuana is harmful. hence. "So you might not want to use that one."[QUOTE="MoonMarvel"] Ummmm....You do know Tabacco was seen as harmless not that long ago right? So you might not want to use that one.MoonMarvel
What i said was that marijuana is not as harmful as cigarettes so that argument is still logical.
i have no idea wher your going with this, but yourgoingto go back and forth.
Putting words in my mouth are you? You are still way off so let me correct you so this can end ok? Tobacco at first was thought of as harmless, by the time they found out the product was harmful the industry grew to powerful to ban. Got it? Ok, With that fact why should tobacoo being legal not be used? Simple, people like you claim weed is harmless and use Tobacoo to support making weed legal by doing so allowing people against weed to say well tobacoo was thought of harmless too, they will then use that as leverage to keep weed illegal and study it until everything is known about which could take a long time. So its better to just not use that argument. Nowhere in there did I say what you claim. Simple as pie.im not off AT ALL. you just stated everything i said just with more detail. And the argument still works, why should the government feed us harmful chemicals but not allow us to use a resourceful plant that could benefit our country, and help people who are sick?putting words in your mouth? you just asked me to restate the point of your irginal thread, so that is EXACTLY what i did. got it? ok
The USA would make millions if they legalized it and taxed it but that is way too logical. So that leads to people smoking it anyways and innocent civilians getting screwed while the government makes them look like the bad guys.
Putting words in my mouth are you? You are still way off so let me correct you so this can end ok? Tobacco at first was thought of as harmless, by the time they found out the product was harmful the industry grew to powerful to ban. Got it? Ok, With that fact why should tobacoo being legal not be used? Simple, people like you claim weed is harmless and use Tobacoo to support making weed legal by doing so allowing people against weed to say well tobacoo was thought of harmless too, they will then use that as leverage to keep weed illegal and study it until everything is known about which could take a long time. So its better to just not use that argument. Nowhere in there did I say what you claim. Simple as pie.im not off AT ALL. you just stated everything i said just with more detail. And the argument still works, why should the government feed us harmful chemicals but not allow us to use a resourceful plant that could benefit our country, and help people who are sick?[QUOTE="MoonMarvel"][QUOTE="-xPANICx-"]your saying tobacco was considered not harmful in the past, so basically you are saying marijuana is harmful. hence. "So you might not want to use that one."
What i said was that marijuana is not as harmful as cigarettes so that argument is still logical.
i have no idea wher your going with this, but yourgoingto go back and forth.
-xPANICx-
putting words in your mouth? you just asked me to restate the point of your irginal thread, so that is EXACTLY what i did. got it? ok
No you are off and saying you are not. I proved you wrong, you swore I said weed was harmful and I did not. What I said is not the same as what you said. The bold shows where you put words in my mouth. You took my words out of context and put some in my mouth, I corrected you. Simple, nothing more to say here.i honestly dont care, ive tried it it didnt live up to the hype at all...Forumposteryes it did lol
[QUOTE="calvinsora"]
[QUOTE="rob1101"] yea the post are coming kind of fast. But you know why people are in rehab for marijuana? some just have that addictive personality which they can be addicted to anything illegal or not. And the majority of people that are in rehab for marijuana are only there because they got busted and it will reduce their sentence/fine, taxdollars at work.... Marijuana is not physically addictive. pis3rch
It is mentally addictive, however, and that is equally as bad. Also, if you want to read about the bad effects of marijuana, please go to this link:
http://www.addict-help.com/marijuana.asp
These people work with addicts and prevention of drugs, so I think they can be trusted in this matter. What the question really boils down to is WHY legalize marijuana? Why introduce another drug into the world, because some people want it? With that disposition, legalizing meth and angel dust and heroin and cocaine falls into the same category. Tobaccois bad enough.
According to that site, the withdrawal symptoms include irritability, sleeplessness, decreased appetite, anxiety, and drug craving, and they all last about 2-3 weeks. That might sound bad, but lets compare this with use of prescription meds, all of which are legal.Benzodiazepines - There are a LOT of really horrific symptoms, so i'm just going to list the major ones: tremors/muscle spasms, more serious convulsions that can lead to death, hypnagogia hallucinations, depersonalization, and much more
SSRI's - sexual dysfunction, dysphoria, depersonalization, panic attacks, severe depression (crying spells and mood swings), and more
Opiates - vomiting, diarrhea, sweating, abdominal pain/cramps
And of course, here's what happens when you go through alcohol withdrawal: catatonia, nausea/vomiting, sweating, irritability, insomnia, delirium, anxiety/panic attacks, headaches, and possibly even seizures.
Now tell me, do you really thing that the mental addiction of marijuana is equally bad the physical addiction to all of these legal substances?
I never said that alcohol was any better. I wish alcohol was illegal too, but everyone knows that that's never gonna happen. As to all those other medications, not only are you using the most dramatic ones, but these are medications people don't use periodically unless they are sick. Even though marijuana may be used as a medical drug, it has many substitutes in the medical field. You also failed to read that chronic use causes schizophrenia (which also proves a comment that was made a while back) , and there's little use of the word "could cause", as the beforementioned drugs do. Not everyone using SSRI's suffers severe depression, dysphoria and such. Also, nothing you said stated that the drugs you mentioned were physically addictive, as you say in your last sentence. At least point it out first.
Honestly, I could care less. However, I have seen too many people try to overdose on other drugs or get into horrific traffic accidents under the influence of marijuana during my time working in the ER. People that believe the drug tobe safe are absolutely wrong. People whowant it legalized, because it's already available for medicinial purposes are wrong, as well.
But, you're asking a guy that doesn't even drink or eat anything with caffeine in it.
The smartest person I know that uses marijuana has an average of 70%, and I know a lot of people who use marijuana.McJuggaI guess this would be a good time for me to type out my grades then, as I got my second trimester report card yesterday.
English III AP - A+
Drawing I - A+
US History II Honors - B+
Algebra II Honors - B+
Chemistry Honors - B+
Spanish III Honors - A
Sacred Scripture Honors (catholic school, believe me i DO NOT want to take this class) - A
Not too shabby imo
I guess this would be a good time for me to type out my grades then, as I got my second trimester report card yesterday.[QUOTE="McJugga"]The smartest person I know that uses marijuana has an average of 70%, and I know a lot of people who use marijuana.pis3rch
English III AP - A+
Drawing I - A+
US History II Honors - B+
Algebra II Honors - B+
Chemistry Honors - B+
Spanish III Honors - A
Sacred Scripture Honors (catholic school, believe me i DO NOT want to take this class) - A
Not too shabby imo
Really? You base your level of academic excellence on the grades that you've achieved in high school? Sorry to break it to you, but graduating from college these days has pretty much the same worth as graduating from High School, so you can guess how much worth High School has in society. Not only that, but it is far easier to attain better grades than it was only a few decades ago as this no child left behind nonsense has severely hindered academic progress in this country.
Also, if you're trying to say that you use marijuana and are using your progress as a student as an experimental model, then you should realize that there are High School individuals in this country that have contributed significantly to society.
For instance, the following was co-written by a high schooler:
http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/13/6/1037
So, if you believe yourself to be so intelligent, then where are your great works? Or, do you spend too much time with less than honorable pursuits?
im not off AT ALL. you just stated everything i said just with more detail. And the argument still works, why should the government feed us harmful chemicals but not allow us to use a resourceful plant that could benefit our country, and help people who are sick?[QUOTE="-xPANICx-"]
[QUOTE="MoonMarvel"] Putting words in my mouth are you? You are still way off so let me correct you so this can end ok? Tobacco at first was thought of as harmless, by the time they found out the product was harmful the industry grew to powerful to ban. Got it? Ok, With that fact why should tobacoo being legal not be used? Simple, people like you claim weed is harmless and use Tobacoo to support making weed legal by doing so allowing people against weed to say well tobacoo was thought of harmless too, they will then use that as leverage to keep weed illegal and study it until everything is known about which could take a long time. So its better to just not use that argument. Nowhere in there did I say what you claim. Simple as pie.MoonMarvel
putting words in your mouth? you just asked me to restate the point of your irginal thread, so that is EXACTLY what i did. got it? ok
No you are off and saying you are not. I proved you wrong, you swore I said weed was harmful and I did not. What I said is not the same as what you said. The bold shows where you put words in my mouth. You took my words out of context and put some in my mouth, I corrected you. Simple, nothing more to say here.Your are the one off. you didnt prove anyone wrong. if you are saying you that marijuana might be harmful then wth is the point of your original post? you're justrepeating yourself to make you look correct.If it was a state-by-state thing... then my state would be the one that is for prohibition, lol... its the same state that was the first to join the confederacy... and the only state to reject the economic stimulus.
[QUOTE="MoonMarvel"]
[QUOTE="-xPANICx-"]im not off AT ALL. you just stated everything i said just with more detail. And the argument still works, why should the government feed us harmful chemicals but not allow us to use a resourceful plant that could benefit our country, and help people who are sick?
putting words in your mouth? you just asked me to restate the point of your irginal thread, so that is EXACTLY what i did. got it? ok
No you are off and saying you are not. I proved you wrong, you swore I said weed was harmful and I did not. What I said is not the same as what you said. The bold shows where you put words in my mouth. You took my words out of context and put some in my mouth, I corrected you. Simple, nothing more to say here.Your are the one off. you didnt prove anyone wrong. if you are saying you that marijuana might be harmful then wth is the point of your original post? you're justrepeating yourself to make you look correct. Dude let it go, I told you the meaning of the post and you CONTINUE to get it wrong and take it out of context to make yourself seem correct. I told you the meaning, you are wrong no need to go on. You took the comment out of cotext and got corrected, nothing more to it than that.
I think stepnkev makes a good point, why does it matter so much to people who don't do drugs? To me, the big question is what effect will it have on society? Is it going to increase acess to the drug for young people? Not with age laws in place. Is it going to create and epidemic? Technically this country has never seen a drug epidemic, and I doubt a drug that doesn't create physical dependence is going to create an epidemic when opium couldn't create an epidemic when it was legalized almost exclusively for use as a recreational drug. I don't think non-users would even be able to notice the difference, all it would mean is a few distributers, some smoke lounges and bars, and small personal gardens. It'd be no different than the liqour stores, bars, and hookah lounges we have now.
The whole point we're arguing is the validity of a law. How can you argue validity just based on the fact that it's a law in the first place? That's circular logic.
Cannabis relaxes certain types of pain. I believe neurological and muscle pain are the primary types, and it helps a lot with pain caused by circulation problems like glaucoma. If you look at some pain relievers used in treating chemo pain, you have to take a myriad of drugs, most of them alleviating side effects of other ones. Weed can solve most of them with no side effects (chemo patients can take a pill form.)
Calvin- Wow, calvin, I don't know where to start. Of all of cannabis' health effects, brain deterioration is the least documented and studied. If you're going to argue on that point, anyways, why don't we criminalize alcohol? It also deteriorates the brain at an alarming rate, causes chirrosis, kidney damage, puts you at increased risks for heart attacks and strokes, damages your cardiovascular system, causes exponentially more driving deaths per year than cannabis, and unlike cannabis you can overdose on it. In fact, too much consumption can cause death in a couple of ways with alcohol (poisoning, choking on vomit), while it's physically impossible to consume a lethal dosage of cannabis.
Cannabis has been the reason for murder? In what way? And as previously mentioned, many cannabis, "substitutes," have adverse side efects that are either taken as a necessary evil or are treated with more drugs that often have more side effects. As for your dad being a doctor, the AMA is admittedly pro-temperance for all drugs, including tobacco and aclohol. Social factors are never going to allow either of those to be criminalized, so why is it so different for weed? Also, is he a scientist? Does he study these things? Is he receiving studies on this type of thing? If so, I'm not going to just take his word. As I've previously mentioned, many studies don't receive approval unless they set out with the goal of reinforcing current theories about the drug, whether there's real evidence or not.
You're saying pot turns people into killers? HAH! Just try and find a case of murder where being high was determined to be the motive. Thosestoriesabout cannabis turning people into maniacs are nothing more than lies and fabrications. And you're talking about rehab? There is no scientific evidence that says cannabis causes physical dependence. In fact, all research says it DOESN'T cause physical dependence. People whose lives are affected by cannabis, that's a good one. Michael Phelps smokes weed and he won eight gold medals, but you're right, before the Olympics he was probably huddling in a street corner begging for change to score his next hit.
Cannabis is less harmful than tobacco. Even if you prove it does 100% put you at as much risk for lung cancer as tobacco, it still does not cause bronchitis or empysema, where tobacco has an adverse effect on your pulminary system cannabis actually strengthens it, not to mention all the other health benefits cannabis has. Mentally addictive, that's a good one. Soda is mentally addictive, and more physically addictive than cannabis, and it can cause obesity, dental problems, increased heart rate, increased stress, and diabetes. Maybe we should think about criminalizing soda.
Why leagalize cannabis? Medical use, relative safety of the drug, economic reasons, to stop prosecution of non-violent users, take a chunk of income away from cartels, need I go on?
How did he come to this conclusion? Were there other drugs involved? Did he account for pre-existing conditions?
Chronic use does NOT cause schizophrenia. I've seen that study, it's total junk science. Case in point that you shouldn't believe everything you read.
Bd- you open your position up to a lot of criticism if you use that argument, however you are right in that, harmful or not, its effects are within socially accepted tolerances, so why is it made out to be worse than drugs like cocaine and heroine when there is no scientific evidence that supports these claims?
A55assin- I find your post hilarious. You say the whole country is going to go downhill if weed is legalized, then admit that there are more dangerous legal drugs that remain legal because of the income they generate. Thank you for proving my point for me.
So you're arguing that just using drugs pre-disposes you to abuse of hard drugs? If that's the case, why isn't everyone who drinks out trying to score meth and heroine? And do you know what they did as an economic boon during the depression? De-criminalized alcohol. There are fourteen and a half million cannabis users in America and eight and a half illicit drug users. If cannabis really predisposed people to drug abuse, don't you think that there would be a few more illicit drug users than there are now?
Drj- so because cannabis was used in conjunction with other drugs it can be labeled just as harmful as them? Does the fact that many illicit drug users also use cannabis mean cannabis predisposes them to harder drugs? Does the fact that a majority of cannabis users do not use illicit drugs not mean anything by that logic, then?
Are you really condemning someone for getting good grades? Christ, no wonder people can justify throwing around the word, "elitist," so much. This person's achieveing, they're probably going to get into a moderately good college, and if they continue to achieve and expand their mind there they'll contribute greatly to society, and you're going to criticize them for getting A's and B's in high school? High school's basically an audition for college anyways.
McJugga- are you talking grade average? If you are, mine's over 90% this semester, nice to meet you.
Panic- MM was saying that people thought tobacco was harmless at first and then it was proven to actually be harmful. he wasn't saying cannabis is harmful, he was saying that isn't the best analogy to make for cannabis criminalization.
I'm personally for marijuana legalization, but I doubt that it will be legal country-wide by 2011 (if that's what you mean).chessmaster1989Seems like in a lot of threads I go to that talk about controversial subjects, this guy has the same opinion has me. Yes, it would take awhile to get it country wide and there will be a LOT of debating on it. I don't smoke it though..
i f****** know what he said! and im saying its not harmful, wtf dont you guys understand?Panic- MM was saying that people thought tobacco was harmless at first and then it was proven to actually be harmful. he wasn't saying cannabis is harmful, he was saying that isn't the best analogy to make for cannabis criminalization.
theone86
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