Who was the worst Imperialist country, United states or the Soviet Union?

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AndrewStar101

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#1 AndrewStar101
Member since 2005 • 800 Posts
Who was/is the worst Imperialist Super Power, Current day United states or the Soviet Union?
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foxhound_fox

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#2 foxhound_fox
Member since 2005 • 98532 Posts
Britain.
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notconspiracy

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#3 notconspiracy
Member since 2007 • 2225 Posts
of the two soviet russia. we didn't exactly send people to labor camps, but there were other European colonial powers *cough* France *cough* that were much worse than the two you put forward
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LJS9502_basic

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#4 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180198 Posts
Soviet Union......but of course.
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Frattracide

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#5 Frattracide
Member since 2005 • 5395 Posts
England was pretty bad in its day. Japan had a heinous empire going on in WWII. Then there was France in several different eras. Or China. . .
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peter1191

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#6 peter1191
Member since 2005 • 591 Posts

The forcable suppression of eastern europe? U.S.S.R. for sure. USA, although it did support some dictators and bad regimes to counter communism's advance, more helped the world than hurt it. Obviously, people forget that, and still criticize it. Lol at France. So hypocritical: they criticize the US for being violent, yet they have had some of the most numerous and heinous uprisings and wars in history of mankind. (Starting from 1789 ONLY: French Revolution, 100 days, Revolution of 1830, Revolution of 1848, the attack on Haiti back in 1802, the Crimean war [although most of Europe did partake in that anyway], Franco-Prussian war of 1869-1870 and the susequent stuggle for power in Paris, imperialism all over Africa & Indochina, then WWI, then WII w/ Vichy France, then further imperialist wars w/ Algeria and Vietnam in the 1950s; need I go on?)

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Sajo7

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#7 Sajo7
Member since 2005 • 14049 Posts
Concerning superpowers, the two options are among the least imperialistic(is that even a word?).
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DrCoCoPiMp

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#8 DrCoCoPiMp
Member since 2005 • 4088 Posts

Spain of course

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dooly420

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#9 dooly420
Member since 2005 • 8783 Posts
of the two soviet russia. we didn't exactly send people to labor camps, but there were other European colonial powers *cough* France *cough* that were much worse than the two you put forwardnotconspiracy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment
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UTXII

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#10 UTXII
Member since 2007 • 3448 Posts
Soviet Russia.
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Frattracide

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#11 Frattracide
Member since 2005 • 5395 Posts

[QUOTE="notconspiracy"]of the two soviet russia. we didn't exactly send people to labor camps, but there were other European colonial powers *cough* France *cough* that were much worse than the two you put forwarddooly420
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment

Those weren't labor camps. (Not a good thing, mind you, I'm just saying. . .)

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deactivated-5e7f221e304c9

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#12 deactivated-5e7f221e304c9
Member since 2004 • 14645 Posts
[QUOTE="notconspiracy"]of the two soviet russia. we didn't exactly send people to labor camps, but there were other European colonial powers *cough* France *cough* that were much worse than the two you put forwarddooly420
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment

Ah-hem. Labor camps. And he said present day US, not WWII US. >__>
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dooly420

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#13 dooly420
Member since 2005 • 8783 Posts
[QUOTE="dooly420"][QUOTE="notconspiracy"]of the two soviet russia. we didn't exactly send people to labor camps, but there were other European colonial powers *cough* France *cough* that were much worse than the two you put forwardjaydough
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment

Ah-hem. Labor camps. And he said present day US, not WWII US. >__>

if we're talking present day, then why even bring up the ussr? it hasn't been around for almost two decades. a lot of users on this site weren't even born when it disbanded.
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deactivated-5e7f221e304c9

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#14 deactivated-5e7f221e304c9
Member since 2004 • 14645 Posts
[QUOTE="jaydough"][QUOTE="dooly420"][QUOTE="notconspiracy"]of the two soviet russia. we didn't exactly send people to labor camps, but there were other European colonial powers *cough* France *cough* that were much worse than the two you put forwarddooly420
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment

Ah-hem. Labor camps. And he said present day US, not WWII US. >__>

if we're talking present day, then why even bring up the ussr? it hasn't been around for almost two decades. a lot of users on this site weren't even born when it disbanded.

I dunno. :|
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AndrewStar101

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#15 AndrewStar101
Member since 2005 • 800 Posts

[QUOTE="jaydough"][QUOTE="dooly420"][QUOTE="notconspiracy"]of the two soviet russia. we didn't exactly send people to labor camps, but there were other European colonial powers *cough* France *cough* that were much worse than the two you put forwarddooly420
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment

Ah-hem. Labor camps. And he said present day US, not WWII US. >__>

if we're talking present day, then why even bring up the ussr? it hasn't been around for almost two decades. a lot of users on this site weren't even born when it disbanded.

I'm talking about Current day for Just the U.S obviously, the Soviet Union does not exist anymore, or at-least not publicly. What I'm saying is, what power was the bigger imperialist. Was it when the Soviet Union turned into a super power after ww2 spreading communism up until the 90's, or was the U.S after ww2 with national security up to current days.

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helium_flash

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#16 helium_flash
Member since 2007 • 9244 Posts
What would exactly be defined as an imperialist nation?
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Frattracide

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#17 Frattracide
Member since 2005 • 5395 Posts

What would exactly be defined as an imperialist nation?helium_flash

In the strictest sense, a nation that controls satellite nations or colonies.

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deactivated-5e7f221e304c9

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#18 deactivated-5e7f221e304c9
Member since 2004 • 14645 Posts
[QUOTE="dooly420"][QUOTE="jaydough"][QUOTE="dooly420"][QUOTE="notconspiracy"]of the two soviet russia. we didn't exactly send people to labor camps, but there were other European colonial powers *cough* France *cough* that were much worse than the two you put forwardAndrewStar101
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment

Ah-hem. Labor camps. And he said present day US, not WWII US. >__>

if we're talking present day, then why even bring up the ussr? it hasn't been around for almost two decades. a lot of users on this site weren't even born when it disbanded.

I'm talking about Current day for Just the U.S obviously, the Soviet Union does not exist anymore, or at-least not publicly. What I'm saying is, what power was the bigger imperialist. Was it when the Soviet Union turned into a super power after ww2 spreading communism up until the 90's, or was the U.S after ww2 with national security up to current days.

... So of all the imperialist countries, you pick America? I'm really dissappointed. >__>
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helium_flash

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#19 helium_flash
Member since 2007 • 9244 Posts

[QUOTE="helium_flash"]What would exactly be defined as an imperialist nation?Frattracide

In the strictest sense, a nation that controls satellite nations or colonies.

Going by that definition the US is obviously not an Imperialist nation.
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deactivated-5e7f221e304c9

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#20 deactivated-5e7f221e304c9
Member since 2004 • 14645 Posts

[QUOTE="helium_flash"]What would exactly be defined as an imperialist nation?Frattracide

In the strictest sense, a nation that controls satellite nations or colonies.

And.. What does USA own? Just Puerto Rico, and that's about it. :|
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Film-Guy

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#21 Film-Guy
Member since 2007 • 26778 Posts
Stalin killed more people than Hitler and your trying to compare him the the United States:| What the hell is wrong with you?
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deactivated-5e7f221e304c9

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#22 deactivated-5e7f221e304c9
Member since 2004 • 14645 Posts
Stalin killed more people than Hitler and your trying to compare him the the United States:| What the hell is wrong with you?Film-Guy
And he killed them just for believing in god, and because he was afraid of planes, he killed almost all people who worked on designing planes. :|
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#23 Wet_Sand
Member since 2007 • 1504 Posts
There have been times where France and Britian were pretty horrible, like when they imperialized Africa and parts of Asia and Europe.
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Frattracide

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#24 Frattracide
Member since 2005 • 5395 Posts
[QUOTE="Frattracide"]

[QUOTE="helium_flash"]What would exactly be defined as an imperialist nation?helium_flash

In the strictest sense, a nation that controls satellite nations or colonies.

Going by that definition the US is obviously not an Imperialist nation.

Well, you could make the "manifest destiny" argument because all that territory was at one point controlled, but not incorporated into the US.

Lately, the definition has been 'laxed to mean "a country with interests abroad." Since we are willing to use force to protect our interests, the term is applied derogatorily to us. Even though almost every other country does the same thing.

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Sajo7

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#25 Sajo7
Member since 2005 • 14049 Posts
[QUOTE="Frattracide"]

[QUOTE="helium_flash"]What would exactly be defined as an imperialist nation?jaydough

In the strictest sense, a nation that controls satellite nations or colonies.

And.. What does USA own? Just Puerto Rico, and that's about it. :|

And Guam apparently, they're on the list of Democrats primaries.

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helium_flash

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#26 helium_flash
Member since 2007 • 9244 Posts
I'd say Britain then
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mrbojangles25

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#27 mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 60820 Posts

lol the US has never really been imperialistic. We got Hawaii and Peutro Rico and thats about all I can think about

Russia took all of Eastern Europe and heavily influenced China and many other asian countries in addition to Cuba.

But in history, I'd say England or France are the worst imperalistic countries.

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DivergeUnify

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#28 DivergeUnify
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[QUOTE="notconspiracy"]of the two soviet russia. we didn't exactly send people to labor camps, but there were other European colonial powers *cough* France *cough* that were much worse than the two you put forwarddooly420
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment

Internment camps were nothing like concentration camps
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deactivated-5e7f221e304c9

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#29 deactivated-5e7f221e304c9
Member since 2004 • 14645 Posts
We got Hawaii and Peutro Rico and thats about all I can think aboutmrbojangles25
Hawaii's a state. :|
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MattUD1

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#30 MattUD1
Member since 2004 • 20715 Posts
The one that exploited all the peoples who lived under the countries rule.
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SmashBrosLegend

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#31 SmashBrosLegend
Member since 2006 • 11344 Posts
If the US was truly as Imperialistic as people make us out to be, we wouldn't have backed off in the Gulf War, we would've pursued the Viet Congs over the border and won that war, and North Korea would be the biggest state in the Union right about now.
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fidosim

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#32 fidosim
Member since 2003 • 12901 Posts

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"] We got Hawaii and Peutro Rico and thats about all I can think aboutjaydough
Hawaii's a state. :|

Yes but we aquired it during what many call our "imperialistic" period. It was an independent monarchy and then we annexed it.

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ItalStallion777

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#33 ItalStallion777
Member since 2005 • 1953 Posts
give me a break. why is the US on that list?
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deactivated-5e7f221e304c9

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#34 deactivated-5e7f221e304c9
Member since 2004 • 14645 Posts
give me a break. why is the US on that list?ItalStallion777
The worst we've done is slavery. And that was 200 friggin years ago.
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mrbojangles25

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#35 mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 60820 Posts

[QUOTE="jaydough"][QUOTE="mrbojangles25"] We got Hawaii and Peutro Rico and thats about all I can think aboutfidosim

Hawaii's a state. :|

Yes but we aquired it during what many call our "imperialistic" period. It was an independent monarchy and then we annexed it.

than kyou thats exactly what i meant

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limpbizkit818

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#36 limpbizkit818
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[QUOTE="jaydough"][QUOTE="mrbojangles25"] We got Hawaii and Peutro Rico and thats about all I can think aboutfidosim

Hawaii's a state. :|

Yes but we aquired it during what many call our "imperialistic" period. It was an independent monarchy and then we annexed it.

Well it was more then just one day independent the next day annexed. Americans had a lot of power on the island before the Queen tryed to take it back.

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Cube_of_MooN

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#37 Cube_of_MooN
Member since 2005 • 9286 Posts
Out of those two options, the USSR by far.
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Film-Guy

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#38 Film-Guy
Member since 2007 • 26778 Posts
Whoever picked the United States is an idiot and fool. Sure the U.S isn't perfect but saying they are worse than the Soviet union is wrong in so many ways.
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s3anx7007

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#39 s3anx7007
Member since 2007 • 490 Posts
the galactic empire
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camreeno360

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#40 camreeno360
Member since 2005 • 6850 Posts
I smell seven Anti-Americans in those poll results.
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Film-Guy

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#41 Film-Guy
Member since 2007 • 26778 Posts

I smell seven Anti-Americans in those poll results. camreeno360

Either that or people trying to be funny and failing, there is no way somebody here actually thinks that the U.S is wore than the Soviet Union was. Nobody is that stupid.

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gobo212

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#42 gobo212
Member since 2003 • 6277 Posts

[QUOTE="camreeno360"]I smell seven Anti-Americans in those poll results. Film-Guy

Either that or people trying to be funny and failing, there is no way somebody here actually thinks that the U.S is wore than the Soviet Union was. Nobody is that stupid.

Yeah I disagree with a lot of what the US does (A LOT!) but the Soviet Union was a totalitarian state that killed millions of people.

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shivaskunk9mm

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#43 shivaskunk9mm
Member since 2004 • 582 Posts
Most of the arguement in this thread doesn't even seem to be about imperialism. Comparing current day U.S with a state that has not existed for 20 years, whose worst humanitarian atrocities were commited more than 60 years ago is more than a little unfair. It's like arguing over who was the better: switzerland or Hitler's germany? Off vourse when you compare atrocities Soviet will come quite comfortably on top no matter how you look at it (partly thanks to uncle joe stalin) but that's not the topic of the thread afaik. If you want ot argue over imperialism, then at least you should compair them both over a similair lifespan.. In pure imperialism, i think the U.S and soviet union are pretty close, with the soviets being a bit more active in the overall, direct conquest of other nations. Both empires annexed large amounts of land from neighbouring countries during their rise in power. They were certainly equally active in by-proxy imperialism over the course of the cold war, and they both engaged in politically motivated wars, either by indirect support, or direct participations (the U.S being the more active in the latter).
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hormagaunt

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#44 hormagaunt
Member since 2003 • 6309 Posts

[QUOTE="jaydough"][QUOTE="dooly420"][QUOTE="notconspiracy"]of the two soviet russia. we didn't exactly send people to labor camps, but there were other European colonial powers *cough* France *cough* that were much worse than the two you put forwarddooly420
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment

Ah-hem. Labor camps. And he said present day US, not WWII US. >__>

if we're talking present day, then why even bring up the ussr? it hasn't been around for almost two decades. a lot of users on this site weren't even born when it disbanded.

well i dont know, ITS THE THREAD! live with it

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DrewTheSchu

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#45 DrewTheSchu
Member since 2003 • 518 Posts

research is your friend:

Early researchers attempting to tally the number of people killed under Stalin's regime were forced to rely largely upon anecdotal evidence. Their estimates ranged from a low of 3 million to as high as 60 million.[68][69] When the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991 however, evidence from the Soviet archives finally became available. The archives record that about 800,000 prisoners were executed (for either political or criminal offences) under Stalin, while about 1.7 million died in the GULAG and some 389,000 perished during kulak forced resettlement - a total of about 3 million victims.

Debate continues, however,[70] since some historians believe the archival figures to be unreliable.[71][72] For example, some argue that the many suspects tortured to death while in "investigative custody" were likely not counted amongst the executed.[73][74] Also, there are certain categories of victim which it is generally agreed were carelessly recorded by the Soviets - such as the victims of ethnic deportations, or of German population transfer in the aftermath of WWII.

Thus while some archival researchers have estimated the number of victims of Stalin's repressions to be no more than about 4 million in total,[75][76][77] others believe the number to be considerably higher, with a "middle estimate" of 40 million.[78] Russian writer Vadim Erlikman,[79] for example, makes the following estimates: executions, 1.5 million; gulags, 5 million; deportations, 1.7 million (out of 7.5 million deported); and POWs and German civilians, 1 million - a total of about 9 million victims of repression.

Some historians have also included the 6 to 8 million victims of the 1932-1933 famine as victims of repression.[80][81][82] This categorization is controversial however, as historians differ as to whether the famine was a deliberate part of the campaign of repression against kulaks or simply an unintended consequence of the struggle over forced collectivization. (See also: Droughts and famines in Russia and the USSR).

Regardless, it appears that a minimum of around 10 million surplus deaths (4 million by repression and 6 million from famine) are attributable to the regime, with a number of recent books suggesting a likely total of around 20 million.[83][84][85][86][87] Adding 6-8 million famine victims to Erlikman's estimates above, for example, would yield a total of between 15 and 17 million victims. Pioneering researcher Robert Conquest, meanwhile, has revised his original estimate of up to 30 million victims down to 20 million.[88] Others, however, continue to maintain that their earlier much higher estimates are correct.[89]

Hmmmmmm.....yeah I wonder which was worse....

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shivaskunk9mm

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#46 shivaskunk9mm
Member since 2004 • 582 Posts

paragraph..

aschuhart
definition of imperialism: 1. The policy of extending a nation's authority by territorial acquisition or by the establishment of economic and political hegemony over other nations. 2. The system, policies, or practices of such a government. this is not a discussion of which state killed the most people, the answer to that being pretty damn obvious. Your research, while thourough and pretty damning, has nothing to do with the topic at hand. The soviet atrocities under stalin mostly affected it's own populace.
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gobo212

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#47 gobo212
Member since 2003 • 6277 Posts
[QUOTE="aschuhart"]

paragraph..

shivaskunk9mm

definition of imperialism: 1. The policy of extending a nation's authority by territorial acquisition or by the establishment of economic and political hegemony over other nations. 2. The system, policies, or practices of such a government. this is not a discussion of which state killed the most people, the answer to that being pretty damn obvious. Your research, while thourough and pretty damning, has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Actually the question asks which of the two imperialistic countries is the worst. That is very subjective and the amount of people killed could very well answer that.The TC never asked which country was more imperialistic.

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shivaskunk9mm

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#48 shivaskunk9mm
Member since 2004 • 582 Posts
[QUOTE="shivaskunk9mm"][QUOTE="aschuhart"]

paragraph..

gobo212

definition of imperialism: 1. The policy of extending a nation's authority by territorial acquisition or by the establishment of economic and political hegemony over other nations. 2. The system, policies, or practices of such a government. this is not a discussion of which state killed the most people, the answer to that being pretty damn obvious. Your research, while thourough and pretty damning, has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Actually the question asks which of the two imperialistic countries is the worst. That is very subjective and the amount of people killed could very well answer that.The TC never asked which country was more imperialistic.

actually what he said was "worst imperialist superpower". Granted the definition of his post is vague, but using the word 'imperialist' if you don't intend to debate imperialism is rather redundant. Then again he also wanted to compare todays U.S with the long defunct soviet union, so i wasn't paying to much attention to the tc's post to be honest. having a debate over who killed the most of the two is obvious and entirely pointless.
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gobo212

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#49 gobo212
Member since 2003 • 6277 Posts
[QUOTE="gobo212"][QUOTE="shivaskunk9mm"][QUOTE="aschuhart"]

paragraph..

shivaskunk9mm

definition of imperialism: 1. The policy of extending a nation's authority by territorial acquisition or by the establishment of economic and political hegemony over other nations. 2. The system, policies, or practices of such a government. this is not a discussion of which state killed the most people, the answer to that being pretty damn obvious. Your research, while thourough and pretty damning, has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Actually the question asks which of the two imperialistic countries is the worst. That is very subjective and the amount of people killed could very well answer that.The TC never asked which country was more imperialistic.

actually what he said was "worst imperialist superpower". Granted the definition of his post is vague, but using the word 'imperialist' if you don't intend to debate imperialism is rather redundant. Then again he also wanted to compare todays U.S with the long defunct soviet union, so i wasn't paying to much attention to the tc's post to be honest.

Yeah i would rather not argue with you because the TC's post is badly worded and you seem rather intelligent.

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Whicker89

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#50 Whicker89
Member since 2004 • 18919 Posts
I dont really know much on the issue, but if its a matter of is than its America if its a matter of was than its Soviet Russia