Why americans are so paranoid towards socialism??

90% of them have no idea what it meansweezyfb

Because America is the last beacon of freedom... th3warr1or

Because capitalism is what keeps us from the mediocrity of Europe. And your thing about "reducing the gap" just brings the upper and upper-middle down. It doesn't bring the lower and middle up.

Pirate700

Yepp.

[QUOTE="Cpt-Obvious"]

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]

Because capitalism is what keeps us from the mediocrity of Europe.

Pirate700

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]

Because capitalism is what keeps us from the mediocrity of Europe. And your thing about "reducing the gap" just brings the upper and upper-middle down. It doesn't bring the lower and middle up.

Yepp.

[QUOTE="Sagem28"]

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]

Because capitalism is what keeps us from the mediocrity of Europe.

mrbojangles25

I'm sorry, what ? I couldn't hear you behind all my cheap health care benefits.

he does have a point

I watch films set in Europeand I cant help but think "Wow...is that how/where they live?"

I watch films set in the US and I think "Wow, that is a nice house"

I mean I just watched Let the Right One In and, forgive me for jumping to conclusions, but are those living conditions standard for Norwegians? I look at Tokyo apartments versus San Francisco apartments and think "Damn...Tokyo sucks"

Wait, sorry I misunderstood your post and didn't read the other ones :P

But yeah, Western Europe does have high standard of living. An economically developed country (UK, Germany, etc etc) are like any other place though, you get your good areas and your bad areas.

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]

Because capitalism is what keeps us from the mediocrity of Europe.

I'm sorry, what ? I couldn't hear you behind all my cheap health care benefits.

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]

Because capitalism is what keeps us from the mediocrity of Europe.

I'm sorry, what ? I couldn't hear you behind all my cheap health care benefits.

[QUOTE="YellowOneKinobi"][QUOTE="Sagem28"]

I'm sorry, what ? I couldn't hear you behind all my cheap health care benefits.

Ravensmash

Here is the first batch......... http://biggovhealth.org/stories

[QUOTE="Ravensmash"][QUOTE="YellowOneKinobi"] Probably the reason you couldn't hear behind your cheap healthcare benefits is because you have people moaning in agony in all of your hospitals, literally dying int he hallways while mothers give birth in waiting rooms.YellowOneKinobi

Here is the first batch......... http://biggovhealth.org/stories

[QUOTE="Ravensmash"][QUOTE="YellowOneKinobi"] Probably the reason you couldn't hear behind your cheap healthcare benefits is because you have people moaning in agony in all of your hospitals, literally dying int he hallways while mothers give birth in waiting rooms.YellowOneKinobi

Here is the first batch......... http://biggovhealth.org/stories

[QUOTE="Ravensmash"][QUOTE="YellowOneKinobi"] Probably the reason you couldn't hear behind your cheap healthcare benefits is because you have people moaning in agony in all of your hospitals, literally dying int he hallways while mothers give birth in waiting rooms.YellowOneKinobi

Here is the first batch......... http://biggovhealth.org/stories

[QUOTE="YellowOneKinobi"]

[QUOTE="Ravensmash"] What? I'm guessing you've never experienced it then :lol:Tylendal

Here is the first batch......... http://biggovhealth.org/stories

Western cultures focus on "me" instead of "we" so anything that's the opposite is demonized.

[QUOTE="Tylendal"][QUOTE="YellowOneKinobi"]

Here is the first batch......... http://biggovhealth.org/stories

Ravensmash

It's not thet people are paranoid to every instance of socialism. We have many social programs in this country that are widely accepted and are the norm. It's just that this country was founded on the idea that the individual is king. We don't like a small group of people trying to pass off their idea of what is "right and just" on everyone else. We prefer people to make those decisions, themselves. We don't believe that all the fruits of someone's labors are the property of everyone else. We believe that if you work hard, are innovative, or are successful, that is a good thing, not a crime. Most people are for a closing of the income gap between classes, but we are not for government mandated income redistribution. It's not the governments place to decide who should make what.

We believe the government should serve the needs of the people, not the people serving the needs of the government. It's supposed to be a mutually beneficial organization. Something that is useful to everyone and not something that acts to punish its members.

I have no problem with a lot of social systems. What I do have a problem with is this blind and uneducated belief that socialism is the cure to all that ails the world. That despite its past failures, it's the only way to go. Most people I've seen on this forum that are pushing for it, do so only because it will benefit their specific situation. In my opinion, they're just as selfish and greedy as those they rail against.

[QUOTE="Ravensmash"][QUOTE="Tylendal"] This is about as representative of Government Health Care as Michael Moore's "Sicko" is of private health care. It's isolating the bad stories. There's a little something called triage. Sure, if you come to the emergency room with an annoying cough, they're going to make you wait, because they'll be more focused on people with the broken arms or arriving in ambulances. It's no worse then people seeking home remedies or ignoring what could be a major illness because they can't or don't want to pay for the medical bills. Oh, wait. Being told that you can only afford to re-attach two, of three fingers... yeah, that's a lot worse. I've seen dramas about people taking hostages trying to get treatment for their (insert relation here) that they can't afford. Never seen a drama about a waiting room.surrealnumber5

This. There's a reason why cases in that link are highlighted and reported in the media, because they don't occur often. To judge a healthcare system which supports 70million people on a few horrific stories is unfair. Ravensmash

[QUOTE="Tylendal"][QUOTE="surrealnumber5"] kinda like a system that supports 300 million? oh wait it is not state run so it is ok to jump to conclusion with only conjecture and statistical outliers.

surrealnumber5

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"][QUOTE="Tylendal"] Private health care is putting a price on human life. It doesn't work when people go bankrupt as a result of not dying.Tylendal

[QUOTE="Tylendal"]

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"] thank you for making my pointsurrealnumber5

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"][QUOTE="Tylendal"] Okay, lets put it this way. When a group of people sit down, and talk about how to make money by taking advantage of the ill and wounded, THAT is a problem.

Tylendal

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"][QUOTE="Tylendal"] Okay, lets put it this way. When a group of people sit down, and talk about how to make money by taking advantage of the ill and wounded, THAT is a problem.

Tylendal

[QUOTE="Tylendal"][QUOTE="surrealnumber5"] do you have a proof that has ever happened let alone on a large tin foil scale? sonicare

[QUOTE="Cpt-Obvious"]

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]

Because capitalism is what keeps us from the mediocrity of Europe.

Pirate700

What? That's how private sector hospitals work. They're not charity organizations, they're businesses, which means people at the top started them for the sole sake of making a profit. If you see someone get injured, you go help them. The American system is you go help them, and steal their wallet. That's a problem.Tylendal

[QUOTE="With-Hatred"]

[QUOTE="BMD004"] Missed my point. He can say Finland and Sweden have the highest levels of happiness (a stat that is completely idiotic), and I can back up that they have higher levels of suicide than "less happy" countries. It's just a stupid statistic to throw out there.

BMD004

http://www.financialjesus.com/how-to-get-rich/top-10-happiest-countries/ High rates of happiness http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy norwegian countries haveHigh life expectancies

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Indexnorway has the highest standard of living

[QUOTE="Cpt-Obvious"]

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]

Because capitalism is what keeps us from the mediocrity of Europe.

Pirate700

I would have to agree. Capitalism is one of the reasons why we're so great.

[QUOTE="Ace6301"][QUOTE="BMD004"] Missed my point. He can say Finland and Sweden have the highest levels of happiness (a stat that is completely idiotic), and I can back up that they have higher levels of suicide than "less happy" countries. It's just a stupid statistic to throw out there.

BMD004

Well, Since China is quickly becoming the largest economic power, maybe we should all be Communist, to avoid "mediocrity". Communist Capitalism obviously > Democratic CapitalismII_Seraphim_II

Perhaps you shouldn't listen to the alarmists quite so much. China has a huge housing bubble that is ready to collapse. And it will. When it does, China will be in no position to be an economic power.

Paranoia towards socialism is as American as apple pie:P

I don't like any government meddling, or rather, as little as possible... Government is full of politicians(surprise surprise?) They tend to like being corrupt, making things have a ton of red tape and trying to be nannies, too obsessed with not hurting, or offending people. It's not paranoia, it's that I don't trust them.Inconsistancy

[QUOTE="Inconsistancy"]I don't like any government meddling, or rather, as little as possible... Government is full of politicians(surprise surprise?) They tend to like being corrupt, making things have a ton of red tape and trying to be nannies, too obsessed with not hurting, or offending people. It's not paranoia, it's that I don't trust them.Ravensmash

[QUOTE="Inconsistancy"]I don't like any government meddling, or rather, as little as possible... Government is full of politicians(surprise surprise?) They tend to like being corrupt, making things have a ton of red tape and trying to be nannies, too obsessed with not hurting, or offending people. It's not paranoia, it's that I don't trust them.Ravensmash

[QUOTE="Sagem28"]

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

oh I have been to Europe about ten times in my life (one of the perks of havign a flight attendent mom :D ).

I was playing Devil's Advocate, btw. I know Europe has many things that I personally envy, and as far as living standards go in Western Europe they easily match the US's for the most part, if not exceed, but are likely less in some respects too.

Its just in California I can drive through any number of neighborhoods and see nice houses and everything is spread out and to get one of those houses is realistic provided you work hard.

I just havent seen neighborhoods like that in Europe that a middle ****person could afford or even pursue. Im likely incorrect though.

We also have a structural problem over here, everything is build so tightly together. There hardly is any building ground anymore, so people often buy old houses which they renovate instead of breaking it down and building a new modern one.

yeah but personally I sort of like that.

in my current town, the oldest house is like 120 years old. Its even been given "historical status" lol.

In Europe, I saw many restored houses that were 150+ years old, usually a lot more due to stone/brick construction. Theyre so beautiful and just ooze **** but that also makes them very expensive.

Also, a lot of European cities were designed before the car and mass transit lol. Hard to navigate for us foreigners :P

As far as close together, that goes both ways; I enjoyed being able to get from Barcelona, Spain to Paris, France in a matter of 3 or so hours...in CA, it takes me close to four hours to get to LA to visit my sister, and four hours to go to San Francisco to visit my folks. Conversely, I can drive that distance and not come across a large town for quite some time, everything is so spread out.

I guess what I am trying to say is that nothing is better, just different, and the least we can do is learn from eachother. Lord knows I want some stuff you "get' from your government; I work my ass off, I deserve healthcare dammit

[QUOTE="Inconsistancy"]I don't like any government meddling, or rather, as little as possible... Government is full of politicians(surprise surprise?) They tend to like being corrupt, making things have a ton of red tape and trying to be nannies, too obsessed with not hurting, or offending people. It's not paranoia, it's that I don't trust them.Ravensmash

metalkitten

You salaries are in the same ballpark. By purchasing power parity, the U.S. median household income scores above some Scandinavian countries, (generally we don't top Norway though) and that is before taxes. (whereby income is taken to fund government services) All things considered, real purchasing power is relatively close.

[QUOTE="Ravensmash"][QUOTE="Inconsistancy"]I don't like any government meddling, or rather, as little as possible... Government is full of politicians(surprise surprise?) They tend to like being corrupt, making things have a ton of red tape and trying to be nannies, too obsessed with not hurting, or offending people. It's not paranoia, it's that I don't trust them.aransom

[QUOTE="aransom"]

[QUOTE="Ravensmash"] Whilst that may be true, how is that any worse than for profit companies who exist solely to make money?Ravensmash

I don't like big govnerment. So if the government controls everything, isn't that a tyranny? What happened to limited government run by the people.mohfrontline

[QUOTE="mohfrontline"]I don't like big govnerment. So if the government controls everything, isn't that a tyranny? What happened to limited government run by the people.curono

[QUOTE="curono"][QUOTE="mohfrontline"]I don't like big govnerment. So if the government controls everything, isn't that a tyranny? What happened to limited government run by the people.surrealnumber5

If we go to both ends we can get tyranny in two different ways.. The best way has always been striking a fine balance between the two.. That is why if we look through out the world the most prosperous nations strike up this balance of grey.

[QUOTE="curono"][QUOTE="mohfrontline"]I don't like big govnerment. So if the government controls everything, isn't that a tyranny? What happened to limited government run by the people.surrealnumber5

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"][QUOTE="curono"] So there can't be a big democratic government? Seriously, you are going to tyranny really fast without thinking that programs could be made to help people.sSubZerOo

If we go to both ends we can get tyranny in two different ways.. The best way has always been striking a fine balance between the two.. That is why if we look through out the world the most prosperous nations strike up this balance of grey.

Hyper-conservative, anti-Soviet propaganda still lingering in the public mindset. It doesn't help that the anti-Soviet ideology was brought in connected to Christianity ("God" being added to the dollar and anthem to counter the "Soviet atheists") which the majority of the nation adheres to. So socialism still is believed to be anti-Christianity.

I've read part of the Communist Manifesto, and read a bit about socialism... and think either side of the political spectrum is detrimental to a society. One has to balance between capitalism and socialism, with the power being solely in the hands of the people.

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"][QUOTE="curono"] So there can't be a big democratic government? Seriously, you are going to tyranny really fast without thinking that programs could be made to help people.curono