Proud? i was directly laughing when i could stay in bed 2 hours longer every wednesday in the 7.th grade when i didn't have to go to the otherwise normal confirmation prepartions :lol:
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I am an atheist, and although my opinion is that this belief is the closest to the truth, I'm not proud.
Each to their own.
As long as we love our neighbours, and turn the other cheek, we're alright in my book. Ironic I guess.
This is why I don't post much lol
[QUOTE="MushroomWig"][QUOTE="MgamerBD"] ok that right there just sounded like ignorance to me. You don't see religious people all jittery and worrying about going to hell every second of their life.... MgamerBDIgnorance? Hardly, I didn't say they were always jittery but it's true that religion stops people from making the most out of life.Depends on what your view of making the most of your life is. If making "the most" of your life to you is non stop partying, binging in alchohol, sleeping around, or stealing then sure religion isn't for you. But if making the most of your life is being successful, helping out others, and doing all those other things like drinking and partying in moderation then religion is for you. I think i'll take the religion way sounds much more safer and look the only thing it holds me back from is regrets. Some religions, sure. What about religions were if you drink alcohol you go to hell or if you're a woman and you don't cover 99% of your body you get stoned to death. And to answer the original question "why are atheists proud?" Well I'm not really, though I could understand why some atheists are; because their entire childhood they had it drummed into their head by parents that religion was true and (in the opinion of an atheist) they were able to see through the lies.
[QUOTE="Xx_Hopeless_xX"][QUOTE="Miroku32"] Oh, yeah; almost all christians think that because they believe in god, go to the mass then they have a free ticket to heaven they go to heaven even if they do bad things. Miroku32
Doesn't Christianity include Lutherans and such..?
And if so...I thought Lutherans believed that only God chooses who goes to heaven and who doesn't...
Yeah, my bad; was talking about catholic ones. I have... sorry, had because my uncle died and she isn't anything to me anymore... Anyways, she is supposedly a faithful catholic and she believes that she will go to heaven but she is in fact a bad person. Also I can include the nuns of my old school.Well, Roman Catholics don't believe you'll go to Heaven as long as you attend Mass Daily and Believe in God etc...you have to go to penance and repent your sins...but we also believe that as long as you sincerely regret your sins/everything you've done wrong before you die you will be forgiven...
[QUOTE="Atmanix"]
[QUOTE="Xx_Hopeless_xX"]
Doesn't Christianity include Lutherans and such..?
And if so...I thought Lutherans believed that only God chooses who goes to heaven and who doesn't...
Xx_Hopeless_xX
I thought most denominations of Christianity believe that you will be "judged"?
From what i have read of Lutheranism...they believe there is a chest of merit...in this chest is the merit of all the good deeds done by the saints...and no one has the key to this chest except the Pope...who may dispense merit if necessary...otherwise they believe you'll go to Hell unless God chooses to save you...as far as i know at least..
I grew up Lutheran and I've never heard anything like that mentioned. My church might have been doing it wrong though.
Yeah, my bad; was talking about catholic ones. I have... sorry, had because my uncle died and she isn't anything to me anymore... Anyways, she is supposedly a faithful catholic and she believes that she will go to heaven but she is in fact a bad person. Also I can include the nuns of my old school.[QUOTE="Miroku32"][QUOTE="Xx_Hopeless_xX"]
Doesn't Christianity include Lutherans and such..?
And if so...I thought Lutherans believed that only God chooses who goes to heaven and who doesn't...
Xx_Hopeless_xX
Well, Roman Catholics don't believe you'll go to Heaven as long as you attend Mass Daily and Believe in God etc...you have to go to penance and repent your sins...but we also believe that as long as you sincerely regret your sins/everything you've done wrong before you die you will be forgiven...
Odd; I heard from one of the nuns from my old school that because she is a nun then she will go to heaven; a free ticket to go there.[QUOTE="Famiking"][QUOTE="MushroomWig"] Exactly, homosexual relationships is the best example, being forced to live a lie otherwise you shall be damned!MushroomWigWhether it is a lie or not is your opinion. Either way, it is Abrahamic religions only, there are plenty of other religions that don't prohibit it. How is it an opinion? People ARE forced to live a lie because of religion.
I think that may be more of the case in regards to the Muslim religion...
[QUOTE="Xx_Hopeless_xX"][QUOTE="Miroku32"] Yeah, my bad; was talking about catholic ones. I have... sorry, had because my uncle died and she isn't anything to me anymore... Anyways, she is supposedly a faithful catholic and she believes that she will go to heaven but she is in fact a bad person. Also I can include the nuns of my old school. Miroku32
Well, Roman Catholics don't believe you'll go to Heaven as long as you attend Mass Daily and Believe in God etc...you have to go to penance and repent your sins...but we also believe that as long as you sincerely regret your sins/everything you've done wrong before you die you will be forgiven...
Odd; I heard from one of the nuns from my old school that because she is a nun then she will go to heaven; a free ticket to go there.That's rather arrogant...that's not what i've been taught...
[QUOTE="Xx_Hopeless_xX"]
[QUOTE="Atmanix"]
I thought most denominations of Christianity believe that you will be "judged"?
Atmanix
From what i have read of Lutheranism...they believe there is a chest of merit...in this chest is the merit of all the good deeds done by the saints...and no one has the key to this chest except the Pope...who may dispense merit if necessary...otherwise they believe you'll go to Hell unless God chooses to save you...as far as i know at least..
I grew up Lutheran and I've never heard anything like that mentioned. My church might have been doing it wrong though.
Maybe i haven't interpreted what i've read correctly...if that's the case..sorry..i may be confusing it with something else..or your religion have been made more modern..
[QUOTE="Atmanix"]
[QUOTE="Xx_Hopeless_xX"]
From what i have read of Lutheranism...they believe there is a chest of merit...in this chest is the merit of all the good deeds done by the saints...and no one has the key to this chest except the Pope...who may dispense merit if necessary...otherwise they believe you'll go to Hell unless God chooses to save you...as far as i know at least..
Xx_Hopeless_xX
I grew up Lutheran and I've never heard anything like that mentioned. My church might have been doing it wrong though.
Maybe i haven't interpreted what i've read correctly...if that's the case..sorry..i may be confusing it with something else..or you're religion has been made more modern..
Oh, don't be sorry. It could very well be me who is wrong since I didn't pay much attention in church as a kid. It may also be a "more modern" thing as you said. I've heard Lutherans referred to as a "very liberal" denomination.
Being able to create meaning for the world WITHOUT believing in a god, afterlife, or otherworldly reward for deeds, makes the world that much more magical because its important and meaningful for being what it is, not what it could be.
How they make it meaningful is a different story, but its all on how you perceive things.
Just because you dont believe in god doesnt make things hopeless and meaningless is my point, because you can still find importance in life itself without outside influences.
personally,i'm proud as an atheist because i THINK i have chosen the right thing,and making a good choice is something you could be always proud of IMO.
why not?JandurinThis. Why the hell aren't we allowed to be proud or not? we aren't a different race, we're all still people and feel pride, christians feel the same way, but in a much worse way.
[QUOTE="Jandurin"]why not?GTR2addictThis. Why the hell aren't we allowed to be proud or not? we aren't a different race, we're all still people and feel pride, christians feel the same way, but in a much worse way.
I find it odd how some Atheists find a way to insult Christianity even when the discussion has nothing to do with it...why is this..?
If Aethiests are proud let em be... people are free to believe the way they want. And the last time I checked Aethiests werent flying themselves into building nor lighting themselves off in markets or planesso who cares. For the record I am a Christian that believes good people of all faiths have a good afterlife... I am more of a String Theorist Christian if that makes sense.
[QUOTE="Jandurin"]why not?GTR2addictThis. Why the hell aren't we allowed to be proud or not? we aren't a different race, we're all still people and feel pride, christians feel the same way, but in a much worse way.
Youre a hypocrit, in one breath you say Aethiest should be proud, and thats fine I have no problem with Aethiests. But then you say Christians are worse by the way they feel. Not all Christians feel the same way and believe the same thing, I dont generalize you and would expect the same respect from you.
So Christians are aloud to be proud because they think they got a free ticket into heaven?
ok...
PeaceChild90
I don't believe in "free" tickets to heaven and neither does most normal-minded Christians.
Its not just Athiests, its people who believe their religion is the best and believe everyone should follow their values or else
Why are religious people proud? It doesn't seem like a very comfortable way to live to me. Different strokes for different folks.
Anyways, I don't look at it as not believing in anything, I look at it as not believing in what cannot be proven. If I had my choice of what I would like to believe I might try to make my own smorgasbord, I would like to believe that there was a god who created us and left us to our own designs not out of spite but for the sake of our independence, that the god in question created us all with inherent good, that we can be reincarnated as whatever we like so long as our karma is good enough, and that when I reach the end of my reincarnation cycle there will be virgins awaiting me in heaven, but there's no proof for any of that. Why would I believe that, then, if I knew the only reason I was believing it was because I wanted it to be true? There is no way of escaping the fact that I know I don't believe it's true, even if I can convince myself otherwise on the surface, or in other words I see it as really beliving in nothing.
What I do believe in is not supernatural, it is physical, sometimes metaphysical if you want to get technical about it. I believe in the power of creativity of humans, both as individuals and under larger cla$$ifications. I believe in the immense potential of humans to do good if properly directed. I believe that this world is part happenstance and part causality, but what's wrong with that? To me that makes it more beautiful, that in all we know of the universe right now we're the only place that has just the right conditions at just the right time to support life, and vibrant life at that. To me it's like a rainbow, why is it there? Because light shining at the correct angleis viewed from the correct perspective refracting off a concentration of water in the air. Is it any less beautiful because I know that instead of thinking that a god put it there? No, it's just as beautiful, maybe even moreso because it tells me that amidst the sort of organized chaos that is our world there can be perfect order of conditions to create beauty. To me that seems like a more appealing way of looking at it, because if there's a god instead of everything being the result of happenstance, good and bad, both the good and the bad are the result of god, which makes me feel a bit like a cosmic toy.
As for not believing in an afterlife, I look at it as a sort of yin and yang thing. I'm not really into any religion, eastern or western, but I believe there are laws of physics that can often be applied to other sciences, for instance action and reaction. That's simply a principle guiding transmission of matter, but I have found it to hold equally as true in terms of dealing with human emotions. In the same way, I think opposites and duality as observed in physics can be applied to the nature of the world. Opposites define each other, how would you be able to tell the difference between matter and space if one didn't exist? Space is inherently a lack of matter, and matter is inherently occupying space, duality. The sameI think holds truewith metaphysics, there can be no life without death, no existence without non-existence, no bliss without pain. The religious sometimes talk about non-existence being incomprehensible, but so is eternal bliss. If you're constantly happy, then what are you really? How do you define happy? Can you really be happy if you know there will never be sadness? To me it sounds like it would neccessitate an emotionally catatonic state as you'd only be feeling one way for the rest of eternity. I think people are afraid of losing life and some people can't stand the thought of that, but I look at it with that thought of duality, if I was not afraid of losing my life then would I still think of it as precious? Some people think of that fear as a bad thing, but to me it's what defines us, what defines life. I remember this one line from Troy and it's one of my favorites (lines, not movies) where Achilles says, "The gods envy us because they will live forever, but to us every moment is precious." The thought of the lack of a god or eternity doesn't depress me as much as the thought of the existence of them would for this reason.
Atheism isn't a religion. It's just someone who does not believe in god. Not everyone has the same reason for not believing, so it's hard to group all them into one category.
Atheists do not believe in "nothing." Nihilists believe in "nothing," or that everything will "return to nothing." Atheists (mostly) just have a disbelief, or non-belief in a God, gods and/or the supernatural. They, unlike what the TC thinks, do have morals and their own ways of thinking about humanity, the world and the universe, they just don't need a sacred text and/or religious figure to tell them what is "right" and what is "wrong."
[QUOTE="Xx_Hopeless_xX"]
[QUOTE="Atmanix"]
I grew up Lutheran and I've never heard anything like that mentioned. My church might have been doing it wrong though.
Atmanix
Maybe i haven't interpreted what i've read correctly...if that's the case..sorry..i may be confusing it with something else..or you're religion has been made more modern..
Oh, don't be sorry. It could very well be me who is wrong since I didn't pay much attention in church as a kid. It may also be a "more modern" thing as you said. I've heard Lutherans referred to as a "very liberal" denomination.
No, he should be sorry for someone who talks so fervently about his own religion and demands acknowledgement, yet is completely misinformed on other people's religions. That's so opposite of Lutheranism it's not even funny, Luther was a member of the Catholic Church at a time when it was preaching a lot of works righteousness, and if I'm correctly informed they do still preach some works righteousness. Anyways, Luther did not believe in the concept, he believed more in the concept of forgiveness, and he believed that the reason more people didn't agree with him was because the only known copies of the bible were published in Latin which was not spoken by the masses, or in other words because the Catholic Church wanted the group of people who could read the Bible to be very clandestine. Though Lutheranism isn't completely in line with Luther's vision, just about every sect believes deeply in the concept of forgiveness over works righteousness. Most Lutherans also strongly reject the authority of the Pope, what he's describing sounds like mainstream Catholocism, although a very distorted view of it.
Atheism IS a religion. Look at this link - http://www.mwillett.org/atheism/sects1.htm Notice the different sects of Atheism. Now take a look at Christianity - http://www.religioustolerance.org/christ7.htm Now take a look at how many separate sects are within. Now tell me why Atheism can't be a religion because of your statement?Atheism isn't a religion. It's just someone who does not believe in god. Not everyone has the same reason for not believing, so it's hard to group all them into one category.
sonicare
We can be proud to have morals that are followed for intrinsic happiness, not because some 'mighty being' says so. No need to worry about the whole 'life after death' thing either :)tofu-lion91Where is the fun in that? Without religion, we wouldn't have Dante's Enfuego or other great works :(.
Atheism IS a religion.PistolGripPump
Atheism is most definitely not a religion. It is a particular stance with regards to the question: "Does God, gods or anything supernatural exist?" A religion is something that has all those aforementioned things.
Atheism isn't a religion. It's just someone who does not believe in god. Not everyone has the same reason for not believing, so it's hard to group all them into one category.
Atheism IS a religion. Look at this link - http://www.mwillett.org/atheism/sects1.htm Notice the different sects of Atheism. Now take a look at Christianity - http://www.religioustolerance.org/christ7.htm Now take a look at how many separate sects are within. Now tell me why Atheism can't be a religion because of your statement? The link is merely someone's opinion not a factual site. That person is classifying people who don't believe in god into his or her own system.[QUOTE="Atmanix"]
[QUOTE="Xx_Hopeless_xX"]
Maybe i haven't interpreted what i've read correctly...if that's the case..sorry..i may be confusing it with something else..or you're religion has been made more modern..
theone86
Oh, don't be sorry. It could very well be me who is wrong since I didn't pay much attention in church as a kid. It may also be a "more modern" thing as you said. I've heard Lutherans referred to as a "very liberal" denomination.
No, he should be sorry for someone who talks so fervently about his own religion and demands acknowledgement, yet is completely misinformed on other people's religions. That's so opposite of Lutheranism it's not even funny, Luther was a member of the Catholic Church at a time when it was preaching a lot of works righteousness, and if I'm correctly informed they do still preach some works righteousness. Anyways, Luther did not believe in the concept, he believed more in the concept of forgiveness, and he believed that the reason more people didn't agree with him was because the only known copies of the bible were published in Latin which was not spoken by the masses, or in other words because the Catholic Church wanted the group of people who could read the Bible to be very clandestine. Though Lutheranism isn't completely in line with Luther's vision, just about every sect believes deeply in the concept of forgiveness over works righteousness. Most Lutherans also strongly reject the authority of the Pope, what he's describing sounds like mainstream Catholocism, although a very distorted view of it.
To summarize...Luther practiced Scholasticism that is the method for learning that places emphasis on dialectical reasoning...he could not prove some of the things Catholicism believed in through the arguments of dialective reasoning after and he began to get frustrated..therefore he made the 92 theses this was perpetrated by the fact that priests were selling "indulgences" that is...the full or partial remission of temporal punishment due for sins which have already been forgiven..due to the invention of the printing press many people ended up reading it and following him.....i may have gone off the path with the pope thing..or the Lutheran belief thing as a whole...that is why i offered apology...which i assumed implied that what i said may not be correct at all...and i never in anyway "fervently" claimed that Christianity is the "end all be all" religion...also, why do you feel the need to get involved when the comment was in no way directed at you...?
Most people here are depressed, most people here are atheist, therefore most atheists are depressed. Fact.
Famiking
Atheism isn't a religion. It's just someone who does not believe in god. Not everyone has the same reason for not believing, so it's hard to group all them into one category.
Atheism IS a religion. Look at this link - http://www.mwillett.org/atheism/sects1.htm Notice the different sects of Atheism. Now take a look at Christianity - http://www.religioustolerance.org/christ7.htm Now take a look at how many separate sects are within. Now tell me why Atheism can't be a religion because of your statement? The link is merely someone's opinion not a factual site. That person is classifying people who don't believe in god into his or her own system. ... and taking someone's opinion from a book known as the bible and accepting it into your life is factual as well then I take it? The fact of the matter is that all of those sects are not an opinion, they are actual sects of each religion - classifying each. That person didn't make up those sects (Protestant, Catholic, Agnostic, etc. ), they just put them on their own site obviously.[QUOTE="sonicare"][QUOTE="PistolGripPump"] Atheism IS a religion. Look at this link - http://www.mwillett.org/atheism/sects1.htm Notice the different sects of Atheism. Now take a look at Christianity - http://www.religioustolerance.org/christ7.htm Now take a look at how many separate sects are within. Now tell me why Atheism can't be a religion because of your statement?PistolGripPumpThe link is merely someone's opinion not a factual site. That person is classifying people who don't believe in god into his or her own system. ... and taking someone's opinion from a book known as the bible and accepting it into your life is factual as well then I take it? The fact of the matter is that all of those sects are not an opinion, they are actual sects of each religion - classifying each. That person didn't make up those sects (Protestant, Catholic, Agnostic, etc. ), they just put them on their own site obviously.I dont believe in God. I think you are confusing me with someone trying to push religion. I am merely making the point that people don't believe in God for a multitude of reasons.
[QUOTE="PistolGripPump"][QUOTE="sonicare"] The link is merely someone's opinion not a factual site. That person is classifying people who don't believe in god into his or her own system.sonicare... and taking someone's opinion from a book known as the bible and accepting it into your life is factual as well then I take it? The fact of the matter is that all of those sects are not an opinion, they are actual sects of each religion - classifying each. That person didn't make up those sects (Protestant, Catholic, Agnostic, etc. ), they just put them on their own site obviously.I dont believe in God. I think you are confusing me with someone trying to push religion. I am merely making the point that people don't believe in God for a multitude of reasons. Ahh, gotcha. I was a little confused there. :)
This. Why the hell aren't we allowed to be proud or not? we aren't a different race, we're all still people and feel pride, christians feel the same way, but in a much worse way.[QUOTE="GTR2addict"][QUOTE="Jandurin"]why not?Chrypt22
Youre a hypocrit, in one breath you say Aethiest should be proud, and thats fine I have no problem with Aethiests. But then you say Christians are worse by the way they feel. Not all Christians feel the same way and believe the same thing, I dont generalize you and would expect the same respect from you.
Never said all christians did i? don't really care anyway, religion is a part of my life i want to completely leave behind.Please Log In to post.
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