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#101 LJS9502_basic

Member since 2003 • 180251 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="almasdeathchild"]not bogus when probably 95% of wars in history were fought cause of religion, like the crusade wars where two different religions fought for the same god and for one city holy to both their religions.....:roll: they way "holy" seems to be used back then makes satan look like the good guy
Tokugawa77

Try 7% which is more likely. As for the crusades.....much of the reason for the first crusade was politics...and land after that.

Where do you get that statistic? i agree that most wars have been fought more so for geopolitical reasons, but don't forget the millions of people killed not in war- The Inquisition, the Holocaust, and numerous other genocides throughout history.

Encyclopedia of War....

You did not just say the Holocaust was a religious war I hope. Genocide is not religion hence the name. It's ETHNIC cleansing.

13 years ago

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#102 deactivated-5a79221380856

Member since 2007 • 13125 Posts

I think it can be summed up by this quote from Martin Luther King, Jr, "Men often hate each other because they fear each other; they fear each other because they don't know each other; they don't know each other because they can not communicate; they can not communicate because they are separated. "

13 years ago

almasdeathchild

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#103 almasdeathchild

Member since 2011 • 8922 Posts

[QUOTE="Tokugawa77"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Try 7% which is more likely. As for the crusades.....much of the reason for the first crusade was politics...and land after that. LJS9502_basic

Where do you get that statistic? i agree that most wars have been fought more so for geopolitical reasons, but don't forget the millions of people killed not in war- The Inquisition, the Holocaust, and numerous other genocides throughout history.

Encyclopedia of War....

You did not just say the Holocaust was a religious war I hope. Genocide is not religion hence the name. It's ETHNIC cleansing.

im just ganna leave this one alone.......do not feel like getting moderated

13 years ago

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Member since 2007 • 6754 Posts

[QUOTE="dkdk999"]
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Really not nice to make bogus claims.LJS9502_basic

alright tell me how it's bogus. Scholars estimate anywhere from 800,000,000-1.3 billion people have died in religous wars. (to my knowledge). Correct me if I'm wrong.

Considering it's estimated that only about 7% of wars had a pure religious motivation...I'm calling BS on your statistic.

mmm I'm not sure what to say. I'm skeptical of that. But I don't really feel like looking up statistics right now and coming up with a good argument. So I guess you win.

13 years ago

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#105 LJS9502_basic

Member since 2003 • 180251 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]
[QUOTE="Tokugawa77"] Where do you get that statistic? i agree that most wars have been fought more so for geopolitical reasons, but don't forget the millions of people killed not in war- The Inquisition, the Holocaust, and numerous other genocides throughout history.almasdeathchild

Encyclopedia of War....

You did not just say the Holocaust was a religious war I hope. Genocide is not religion hence the name. It's ETHNIC cleansing.

im just ganna leave this one alone.......do not feel like getting moderated

A religious war is a war with religious being the reason for the war.....The Holocaust was part of WW2...not a religious war. And Hitler was trying to remove an ethnic group from existence. Hence genocide. Do not confuse the two. You ARE aware that Jewish is also an ethnicity....right? Or does you education only consist of....religion bad...do not like?

13 years ago

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Member since 2005 • 10381 Posts

The thought that without religion we will have a peaceful society is just stupid. People are always going to find reasons to kill each other with or without religion
Bane_09

But it will be easier to fight against injustice without religion.

Part of the reason why people get away with unethical practices is because they're protected under their religion.

13 years ago

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Member since 2010 • 3394 Posts

[QUOTE="Bane_09"]
The thought that without religion we will have a peaceful society is just stupid. People are always going to find reasons to kill each other with or without religion
Tokugawa77

A big reason why we want to kill each other is beacue we are all somehow different.

Yes, it's pretty silly isn't it

13 years ago

almasdeathchild

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#108 almasdeathchild

Member since 2011 • 8922 Posts

[QUOTE="almasdeathchild"]
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Encyclopedia of War....
You did not just say the Holocaust was a religious war I hope. Genocide is not religion hence the name. It's ETHNIC cleansing.
LJS9502_basic

im just ganna leave this one alone.......do not feel like getting moderated

A religious war is a war with religious being the reason for the war.....The Holocaust was part of WW2...not a religious war. And Hitler was trying to remove an ethnic group from existence. Hence genocide. Do not confuse the two. You ARE aware that Jewish is also an ethnicity....right? Or does you education only consist of....religion bad...do not like?

i refuse till the day i die that it's a ethnicity and a religion,that is why i will refuse to get into this any further.

13 years ago

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#109 LJS9502_basic

Member since 2003 • 180251 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="almasdeathchild"]im just ganna leave this one alone.......do not feel like getting moderated
almasdeathchild

A religious war is a war with religious being the reason for the war.....The Holocaust was part of WW2...not a religious war. And Hitler was trying to remove an ethnic group from existence. Hence genocide. Do not confuse the two. You ARE aware that Jewish is also an ethnicity....right? Or does you education only consist of....religion bad...do not like?

i refuse till the day i die that it's a ethnicity and a religion,that is why i will refuse to get into this any further.

Ignorance of the facts doesn't make you right....

13 years ago

almasdeathchild

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#110 almasdeathchild

Member since 2011 • 8922 Posts

[QUOTE="almasdeathchild"]
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] A religious war is a war with religious being the reason for the war.....The Holocaust was part of WW2...not a religious war. And Hitler was trying to remove an ethnic group from existence. Hence genocide. Do not confuse the two. You ARE aware that Jewish is also an ethnicity....right? Or does you education only consist of....religion bad...do not like?LJS9502_basic

i refuse till the day i die that it's a ethnicity and a religion,that is why i will refuse to get into this any further.

Ignorance of the facts doesn't make you right....

it's my opinion.....it's not ignorance or facts.....

13 years ago

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#111 LJS9502_basic

Member since 2003 • 180251 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="almasdeathchild"]i refuse till the day i die that it's a ethnicity and a religion,that is why i will refuse to get into this any further.
almasdeathchild

Ignorance of the facts doesn't make you right....

it's my opinion.....it's not ignorance or facts.....

No...it's ignorance of facts. You can't form an opinion with any merit that a specific ethnic group doesn't exist when they do. Comes off as crazy TBH....

13 years ago

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#112 Tokugawa77

Member since 2009 • 1554 Posts

[QUOTE="Tokugawa77"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Try 7% which is more likely. As for the crusades.....much of the reason for the first crusade was politics...and land after that. LJS9502_basic

Where do you get that statistic? i agree that most wars have been fought more so for geopolitical reasons, but don't forget the millions of people killed not in war- The Inquisition, the Holocaust, and numerous other genocides throughout history.

Encyclopedia of War....

You did not just say the Holocaust was a religious war I hope. Genocide is not religion hence the name. It's ETHNIC cleansing.

I was giving examples of incidents of mass killing based upon religion that were NOT wars. Judaism is a religion, not an ethnicity. I used the term genocide becasue many times relgion and race go hand in hand when it comes to this type of thing.

13 years ago

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#113 LJS9502_basic

Member since 2003 • 180251 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]
[QUOTE="Tokugawa77"] Where do you get that statistic? i agree that most wars have been fought more so for geopolitical reasons, but don't forget the millions of people killed not in war- The Inquisition, the Holocaust, and numerous other genocides throughout history.Tokugawa77

Encyclopedia of War....

You did not just say the Holocaust was a religious war I hope. Genocide is not religion hence the name. It's ETHNIC cleansing.

I was giving examples of incidents of mass killing based upon religion that were NOT wars. Judaism is a religion, not an ethnicity. I used the term genocide becasue many times relgion and race go hand in hand when it comes to this type of thing.

Ah but the reason for targeting individuals was because they didn't fit the Aryan race....which is NOT religion. Ignorance at it's best ladies and gentlemen.

13 years ago

almasdeathchild

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#114 almasdeathchild

Member since 2011 • 8922 Posts

[QUOTE="almasdeathchild"]
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Ignorance of the facts doesn't make you right....LJS9502_basic

it's my opinion.....it's not ignorance or facts.....

No...it's ignorance of facts. You can't form an opinion with any merit that a specific ethnic group doesn't exist when they do. Comes off as crazy TBH....

because it's a religion and a race? honestly makes no sence to me,sure there is a country (i think isriel) that have them and they have their own language,but i will refuse it,a race and a relgion with the same name just doesnt click for me at all.

13 years ago

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#115 LORD_BLACKGULT

Member since 2006 • 947 Posts

There are more religious people being hostile to others (athiests, homosexuals, other religious people) than non-religious people being hostile to others.

The internet may show more people being hostile to religious people, but that does not translate to the real world.

13 years ago

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#116 LJS9502_basic

Member since 2003 • 180251 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]
[QUOTE="almasdeathchild"]it's my opinion.....it's not ignorance or facts.....
almasdeathchild

No...it's ignorance of facts. You can't form an opinion with any merit that a specific ethnic group doesn't exist when they do. Comes off as crazy TBH....

because it's a religion and a race? honestly makes no sence to me,sure there is a country (i think isriel) that have them and they have their own language,but i will refuse it,a race and a relgion with the same name just doesnt click for me at all.

Ethnicity is not race.

13 years ago

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#117 Tokugawa77

Member since 2009 • 1554 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Ah but the reason for targeting individuals was because they didn't fit the Aryan race....which is NOT religion. Ignorance at it's best ladies and gentlemen.

Yes because we all know that everyone who was not Aryan was rounded up and put into concentration camps. C'mon. Gypsies, homosexuals, Jehovah's Witnesses, the political left... It was definitely more than a racial cleansing, it was partially motivated by religion.

13 years ago

almasdeathchild

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#118 almasdeathchild

Member since 2011 • 8922 Posts

[QUOTE="almasdeathchild"]
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] No...it's ignorance of facts. You can't form an opinion with any merit that a specific ethnic group doesn't exist when they do. Comes off as crazy TBH....
LJS9502_basic

because it's a religion and a race? honestly makes no sence to me,sure there is a country (i think isriel) that have them and they have their own language,but i will refuse it,a race and a relgion with the same name just doesnt click for me at all.

Ethnicity is not race.

people say jews are a race that doesnt click,now ethnicity in the holocaust was a racial thing.im mixing up words in my head today

13 years ago

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#119 Tokugawa77

Member since 2009 • 1554 Posts

[QUOTE="almasdeathchild"]
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] No...it's ignorance of facts. You can't form an opinion with any merit that a specific ethnic group doesn't exist when they do. Comes off as crazy TBH....
LJS9502_basic

because it's a religion and a race? honestly makes no sence to me,sure there is a country (i think isriel) that have them and they have their own language,but i will refuse it,a race and a relgion with the same name just doesnt click for me at all.

Ethnicity is not race.

Race: classification of humans into large and distinct populations or groups by factors such as heritable phenotypic characteristics or geographic ancestry, culture, ethnicity, and socio-economic status. So for example, Caucasian would be the race, Czech would be the ethnicity.

13 years ago

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#120 LJS9502_basic

Member since 2003 • 180251 Posts

[QUOTE="Tokugawa77"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Ah but the reason for targeting individuals was because they didn't fit the Aryan race....which is NOT religion. Ignorance at it's best ladies and gentlemen.

Yes because we all know that everyone who was not Aryan was rounded up and put into concentration camps. C'mon. Gypsies, homosexuals, Jehovah's Witnesses, the political left... It was definitely more than a racial cleansing, it was partially motivated by religion.

No it wasn't motivated by religion. For someone supposedly versed in the war you are totally clueless.

13 years ago

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#121 Tokugawa77

Member since 2009 • 1554 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Tokugawa77"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Ah but the reason for targeting individuals was because they didn't fit the Aryan race....which is NOT religion. Ignorance at it's best ladies and gentlemen.

Yes because we all know that everyone who was not Aryan was rounded up and put into concentration camps. C'mon. Gypsies, homosexuals, Jehovah's Witnesses, the political left... It was definitely more than a racial cleansing, it was partially motivated by religion.

No it wasn't motivated by religion. For someone supposedly versed in the war you are totally clueless.

Extermination of Jews= killing based on religion. I rerally don't get what's so hard to understand...

13 years ago

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#122 LJS9502_basic

Member since 2003 • 180251 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="almasdeathchild"]because it's a religion and a race? honestly makes no sence to me,sure there is a country (i think isriel) that have them and they have their own language,but i will refuse it,a race and a relgion with the same name just doesnt click for me at all.
Tokugawa77

Ethnicity is not race.

Race: classification of humans into large and distinct populations or groups by factors such as heritable phenotypic characteristics or geographic ancestry, culture, ethnicity, and socio-economic status So for example, Caucasian would be the race, Czech would be the ethnicity.

Why did you post that? I said Jewish is an ethnicity. You confused it with race....not me. Every country is an ethnicity. Not a race. An ethnicity. Judaism is the religion. And considering Hitler and his SS did not solely target those of the Jewish faith....then I guess that blows your theory out of the water....

13 years ago

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#123 LJS9502_basic

Member since 2003 • 180251 Posts

[QUOTE="Tokugawa77"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Tokugawa77"] Yes because we all know that everyone who was not Aryan was rounded up and put into concentration camps. C'mon. Gypsies, homosexuals, Jehovah's Witnesses, the political left... It was definitely more than a racial cleansing, it was partially motivated by religion.

No it wasn't motivated by religion. For someone supposedly versed in the war you are totally clueless.

Extermination of Jews= killing based on religion. I rerally don't get what's so hard to understand...

I really don't know why it's so hard for you to understand. The Jewish were killed yes....but they were NOT the only group. Hence.....it was not for religious reasons. Or it would have been all Jewish. This is the most stupid argument I've ever seen in regard to an attempt to demonize religion.

13 years ago

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#124 Tokugawa77

Member since 2009 • 1554 Posts

[QUOTE="Tokugawa77"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Ethnicity is not race.LJS9502_basic

Race: classification of humans into large and distinct populations or groups by factors such as heritable phenotypic characteristics or geographic ancestry, culture, ethnicity, and socio-economic status So for example, Caucasian would be the race, Czech would be the ethnicity.

Why did you post that? I said Jewish is an ethnicity. You confused it with race....not me. Every country is an ethnicity. Not a race. An ethnicity. Judaism is the religion. And considering Hitler and his SS did not solely target those of the Jewish faith....then I guess that blows your theory out of the water....

Posting it so that we don't get into some stupid argument over race vs ethnicity. When did I confuse the two?? As you said, Judaism is a religion, and since people of the Jewish faith (and Jehovah's Witnesses) were targeted based upon their religion, you would say that the holocaust was religiously motivated. The other groups that were targeted were not targeted because of religion, but how does that change the fact that some groups still were? THE HOLOCAUST MOTIVATED BECAUSE OF RELIGION. Comprende?

13 years ago

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#125 LJS9502_basic

Member since 2003 • 180251 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]
[QUOTE="Tokugawa77"] Race: classification of humans into large and distinct populations or groups by factors such as heritable phenotypic characteristics or geographic ancestry, culture, ethnicity, and socio-economic status So for example, Caucasian would be the race, Czech would be the ethnicity.Tokugawa77

Why did you post that? I said Jewish is an ethnicity. You confused it with race....not me. Every country is an ethnicity. Not a race. An ethnicity. Judaism is the religion. And considering Hitler and his SS did not solely target those of the Jewish faith....then I guess that blows your theory out of the water....

Posting it so that we don't get into some stupid argument over race vs ethnicity. When did I confuse the two?? As you said, Judaism is a religion, and since people of the Jewish faith (and Jehovah's Witnesses) were targeted based upon their religion, you would say that the holocaust was religiously motivated. The other groups that were targeted were not targeted because of religion, but how does that change the fact that some groups still were? THE HOLOCAUST MOTIVATED BECAUSE OF RELIGION. Comprende?

No the Holocaust was not religious motivated...if you want to say religious persecution...I'd say that's okay. But Hitler was NOT fighting a religious war. He wasn't draping himself in religion to attack nor take individuals. You really are talking out your ass here.....

13 years ago

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Member since 2007 • 17384 Posts

I have nothing against (most) religious people. I just think that they are wrong. And they think that I'm wrong, so it evens itself out.

13 years ago

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#127 Tokugawa77

Member since 2009 • 1554 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Tokugawa77"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] No it wasn't motivated by religion. For someone supposedly versed in the war you are totally clueless.

Extermination of Jews= killing based on religion. I rerally don't get what's so hard to understand...

I really don't know why it's so hard for you to understand. The Jewish were killed yes....but they were NOT the only group. Hence.....it was not for religious reasons. Or it would have been all Jewish. This is the most stupid argument I've ever seen in regard to an attempt to demonize religion.

I'm not trying to demonize religion, just stating facts. Religion has been responsible for many of the world's attrocities, that's all. I'm not passing judgement at all. So.. if a serial killer hates black people and Muslims, and kills one person of each group, you would say that his killing of the Muslim is not motivated by religion just because he also killed a black man?

13 years ago

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#128 LJS9502_basic

Member since 2003 • 180251 Posts

[QUOTE="Tokugawa77"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Tokugawa77"] Extermination of Jews= killing based on religion. I rerally don't get what's so hard to understand...

I really don't know why it's so hard for you to understand. The Jewish were killed yes....but they were NOT the only group. Hence.....it was not for religious reasons. Or it would have been all Jewish. This is the most stupid argument I've ever seen in regard to an attempt to demonize religion.

I'm not trying to demonize religion, just stating facts. Religion has been responsible for many of the world's attrocities, that's all. I'm not passing judgement at all. So.. if a serial killer hates black people and Muslims, and kills one person of each group, you would say that his killing of the Muslim is not motivated by religion just because he also killed a black man?

You have this ass backwards. When someone blames religion it's not because they were killed for it....it's because they killed for it. Learn the difference. Wow.

13 years ago

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#129 Tokugawa77

Member since 2009 • 1554 Posts

No the Holocaust was not religious motivated...if you want to say religious persecution...I'd say that's okay. But Hitler was NOT fighting a religious war. He wasn't draping himself in religion to attack nor take individuals. You really are talking out your ass here.....LJS9502_basic

Guess what religious persecution is caused by? Oh yea, religion. So the pointg still stands. changing the name does not change the fact that 6 million jews were killed for the sole fact that they were Jewish.

13 years ago

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#130 the_plan_man

Member since 2011 • 1664 Posts

[QUOTE="Tokugawa77"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

Race: classification of humans into large and distinct populations or groups by factors such as heritable phenotypic characteristics or geographic ancestry, culture, ethnicity, and socio-economic status So for example, Caucasian would be the race, Czech would be the ethnicity.Tokugawa77

Why did you post that? I said Jewish is an ethnicity. You confused it with race....not me. Every country is an ethnicity. Not a race. An ethnicity. Judaism is the religion. And considering Hitler and his SS did not solely target those of the Jewish faith....then I guess that blows your theory out of the water....

Posting it so that we don't get into some stupid argument over race vs ethnicity. When did I confuse the two?? As you said, Judaism is a religion, and since people of the Jewish faith (and Jehovah's Witnesses) were targeted based upon their religion, you would say that the holocaust was religiously motivated. The other groups that were targeted were not targeted because of religion, but how does that change the fact that some groups still were? THE HOLOCAUST MOTIVATED BECAUSE OF RELIGION. Comprende?

I have to say you are wrong and LJ is right. Judaism IS both a religion and ethnic group. Hitler wanted to create an "arian race" that only consisted of people he saw fit to live in it. http://www.jewfaq.org/judaism.htm (shows that US Supreme Court ruled Jews a "race) http://frank.mtsu.edu/~baustin/emigrate.html (Hitler's motivation--ethnic cleansing like LJ said). Give those a read...and seriously stop bickering....

13 years ago

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Member since 2010 • 8181 Posts

People get easily butthurt by things that don't involve them. Just like the babies of SW who whine about COD.

13 years ago

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#132 the_plan_man

Member since 2011 • 1664 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Tokugawa77"] Extermination of Jews= killing based on religion. I rerally don't get what's so hard to understand...Tokugawa77

I really don't know why it's so hard for you to understand. The Jewish were killed yes....but they were NOT the only group. Hence.....it was not for religious reasons. Or it would have been all Jewish. This is the most stupid argument I've ever seen in regard to an attempt to demonize religion.

I'm not trying to demonize religion, just stating facts. Religion has been responsible for many of the world's attrocities, that's all. I'm not passing judgement at all. So.. if a serial killer hates black people and Muslims, and kills one person of each group, you would say that his killing of the Muslim is not motivated by religion just because he also killed a black man?

Seriously, read earlier in the thread, LJ and foxhound have stated that very few of the world's attrocities come from religion.

13 years ago

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#133 Tokugawa77

Member since 2009 • 1554 Posts

[QUOTE="Tokugawa77"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]I really don't know why it's so hard for you to understand. The Jewish were killed yes....but they were NOT the only group. Hence.....it was not for religious reasons. Or it would have been all Jewish. This is the most stupid argument I've ever seen in regard to an attempt to demonize religion.LJS9502_basic

I'm not trying to demonize religion, just stating facts. Religion has been responsible for many of the world's attrocities, that's all. I'm not passing judgement at all. So.. if a serial killer hates black people and Muslims, and kills one person of each group, you would say that his killing of the Muslim is not motivated by religion just because he also killed a black man?

You have this ass backwards. When someone blames religion it's not because they were killed for it....it's because they killed for it. Learn the difference. Wow.

Point? Either way, religion is still responsible. Like I said, not passing judgment one way or the other. That's of course assuming that the killer had no religious motivation of his own (he didn't kill in the name of his religion), which is highly unlikely in the first place. I'm finding your snide remarks kinda annoying as well, btw.

13 years ago

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Member since 2007 • 6754 Posts

[QUOTE="Tokugawa77"]Actually atheists are the most hated minority in the US (I believe even more so that Muslims and homosexuals)the_plan_man

I can see why in a lot of cases I see. :?

Well your kind of being a hypocrite here. How do you know we don't have the same bad experiences with religous people you have with atheists ? I generally like/think more highly of the atheists that I meet in my life. *shrugs*.

13 years ago

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#135 LJS9502_basic

Member since 2003 • 180251 Posts

[QUOTE="Tokugawa77"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Tokugawa77"] I'm not trying to demonize religion, just stating facts. Religion has been responsible for many of the world's attrocities, that's all. I'm not passing judgement at all. So.. if a serial killer hates black people and Muslims, and kills one person of each group, you would say that his killing of the Muslim is not motivated by religion just because he also killed a black man?

You have this ass backwards. When someone blames religion it's not because they were killed for it....it's because they killed for it. Learn the difference. Wow.

Point? Either way, religion is still responsible. Like I said, not passing judgment one way or the other. That's of course assuming that the killer had no religious motivation of his own (he didn't kill in the name of his religion), which is highly unlikely in the first place. I'm finding your snide remarks kinda annoying as well, btw.

No religion is not responsible if the person that acted did not do for his own personal religious convictions. That's like blaming the victim.....is that how it goes for you? It's the minorities fault if he gets beat up for race or orientation? Because that is EXACTLY what you are doing here. It's the most illogical argument I've ever seen in the many years and many posts I've read in OT. And that is saying something.

13 years ago

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#136 foxhound_fox

Member since 2005 • 98532 Posts

it's my opinion.....it's not ignorance or facts.....almasdeathchild

It's my opinion that you are an idiot. However, my opinion is rooted in demonstrable evidence that supports the reasoning. [QUOTE="Tokugawa77"] I'm not trying to demonize religion, just stating facts. Religion has been responsible for many of the world's attrocities, that's all.

I really hate being "that" guy... but this seems self-contradictory. Especially considering how you aren't considering ALL the facts. What about Mao and Stalin? Did they have religious motivations when executing and imprisoning millions of their own people? I already provided a link that sources a study that concludes only 10% of all conflicts in recorded human history have clear religious motivation. But not even all of those are a "primary" motivation, merely a part of it. It is intellectually dishonest to claim you don't mean to demonize religion, but then go out of your way to show it in an incredibly negative light, weighted heavily against it with the "facts" you present (which doesn't show the whole picture).

13 years ago

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#137 Tokugawa77

Member since 2009 • 1554 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Tokugawa77"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] You have this ass backwards. When someone blames religion it's not because they were killed for it....it's because they killed for it. Learn the difference. Wow.

Point? Either way, religion is still responsible. Like I said, not passing judgment one way or the other. That's of course assuming that the killer had no religious motivation of his own (he didn't kill in the name of his religion), which is highly unlikely in the first place. I'm finding your snide remarks kinda annoying as well, btw.

No religion is not responsible if the person that acted did not do for his own personal religious convictions. That's like blaming the victim.....is that how it goes for you? It's the minorities fault if he gets beat up for race or orientation? Because that is EXACTLY what you are doing here. It's the most illogical argument I've ever seen in the many years and many posts I've read in OT. And that is saying something.

Well whatever you're free to think that if you want. Does not change the fact that religion itself was responsible, or to cater to you, "religious difference". What was all this about race orientation? In either case We are completely missing the point- the holocaust was just one example, I for the record I would argue that some thinkers within the Nazi party drew upon other religions to form their dogma. Not a debate-winner, but still relevent.

13 years ago

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#138 LJS9502_basic

Member since 2003 • 180251 Posts

[QUOTE="Tokugawa77"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Tokugawa77"] Point? Either way, religion is still responsible. Like I said, not passing judgment one way or the other. That's of course assuming that the killer had no religious motivation of his own (he didn't kill in the name of his religion), which is highly unlikely in the first place. I'm finding your snide remarks kinda annoying as well, btw.

No religion is not responsible if the person that acted did not do for his own personal religious convictions. That's like blaming the victim.....is that how it goes for you? It's the minorities fault if he gets beat up for race or orientation? Because that is EXACTLY what you are doing here. It's the most illogical argument I've ever seen in the many years and many posts I've read in OT. And that is saying something.

Well whatever you're free to think that if you want. Does not change the fact that religion itself was responsible, or to cater to you, "religious difference". What was all this about race orientation? In either case We are completely missing the point- the holocaust was just one example, I for the record I would argue that some thinkers within the Nazi party drew upon other religions to form their dogma. Not a debate-winner, but still relevent.

That's actually not the facts and I suggest some education on the subject. You're making yourself look foolish here....

13 years ago

Shadowchronicle

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#139 Shadowchronicle

Member since 2008 • 26969 Posts

Religion is not the problem, the problem is the type of people who support those religions. For example, the people who killed by the name of god, no it wasn't religion's fault but do you guys see some connections?

13 years ago

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#140 LJS9502_basic

Member since 2003 • 180251 Posts

Religion is not the problem, the problem is the type of people who support those religions. For example, the people who killed by the name of god, no it wasn't religion's fault but do you guys see some connections? shadowchronicle

Humans....yes I do see the connection.

13 years ago

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#141 the_plan_man

Member since 2011 • 1664 Posts

Religion is not the problem, the problem is the type of people who support those religions. For example, the people who killed by the name of god, no it wasn't religion's fault but do you guys see some connections? shadowchronicle

No...Jesus taught us to love thy neighbor as ourselves. Religion isn't the problem...people are.

13 years ago

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Member since 2007 • 17384 Posts

I'm not reading through this entire thread but I will say this about the Holocaust; the Holocaust doesn't happen if not for the centuries of antisemitism that was propagated by religious leaders beforehand. Hitler didn't come out of nowhere. Antisemitism in Europe didn't start with the Third Reich - the Third Reich was the culmination of antisemitism in Europe. Many Jews saw the writing on the wall decades before anyone even knew Hitler's name.

13 years ago

Shadowchronicle

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#143 Shadowchronicle

Member since 2008 • 26969 Posts

[QUOTE="shadowchronicle"]Religion is not the problem, the problem is the type of people who support those religions. For example, the people who killed by the name of god, no it wasn't religion's fault but do you guys see some connections? the_plan_man

No...Jesus taught us to love thy neighbor as ourselves. Religion isn't the problem...people are.

My point is that the two are connected even though it was not meant to be. As for jesus telling you guys to love neighbors as ourselves, well I'm sorry but I haven't seen that yet in history. Especially with gays or homosexuals.

13 years ago

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#144 LJS9502_basic

Member since 2003 • 180251 Posts

[QUOTE="the_plan_man"][QUOTE="shadowchronicle"]Religion is not the problem, the problem is the type of people who support those religions. For example, the people who killed by the name of god, no it wasn't religion's fault but do you guys see some connections? shadowchronicle

No...Jesus taught us to love thy neighbor as ourselves. Religion isn't the problem...people are.

My point is that the two are connected even though it was not meant to be. As for jesus telling you guys to love neighbors as ourselves, well I'm sorry but I haven't seen that yet in history. Especially with gays or homosexuals.

Aren't gays homosexuals? I suggest you only see what you want to see....and I've known some non religious to dislike homosexuals to very high degree.....and I've seen some religious accept them.

13 years ago

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#145 Tokugawa77

Member since 2009 • 1554 Posts

[QUOTE="Tokugawa77"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]No religion is not responsible if the person that acted did not do for his own personal religious convictions. That's like blaming the victim.....is that how it goes for you? It's the minorities fault if he gets beat up for race or orientation? Because that is EXACTLY what you are doing here. It's the most illogical argument I've ever seen in the many years and many posts I've read in OT. And that is saying something.LJS9502_basic

Well whatever you're free to think that if you want. Does not change the fact that religion itself was responsible, or to cater to you, "religious difference". What was all this about race orientation? In either case We are completely missing the point- the holocaust was just one example, I for the record I would argue that some thinkers within the Nazi party drew upon other religions to form their dogma. Not a debate-winner, but still relevent.

That's actually not the facts and I suggest some education on the subject. You're making yourself look foolish here....

It actually is and since we are at an impass here I won't take this any further.

13 years ago

almasdeathchild

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#146 almasdeathchild

Member since 2011 • 8922 Posts

[QUOTE="the_plan_man"][QUOTE="shadowchronicle"]Religion is not the problem, the problem is the type of people who support those religions. For example, the people who killed by the name of god, no it wasn't religion's fault but do you guys see some connections? shadowchronicle

No...Jesus taught us to love thy neighbor as ourselves. Religion isn't the problem...people are.

My point is that the two are connected even though it was not meant to be. As for jesus telling you guys to love neighbors as ourselves, well I'm sorry but I haven't seen that yet in history. Especially with gays or homosexuals.

TF....?:question:

13 years ago

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#147 LJS9502_basic

Member since 2003 • 180251 Posts

[QUOTE="Tokugawa77"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Tokugawa77"] Well whatever you're free to think that if you want. Does not change the fact that religion itself was responsible, or to cater to you, "religious difference". What was all this about race orientation? In either case We are completely missing the point- the holocaust was just one example, I for the record I would argue that some thinkers within the Nazi party drew upon other religions to form their dogma. Not a debate-winner, but still relevent.

That's actually not the facts and I suggest some education on the subject. You're making yourself look foolish here....

It actually is and since we are at an impass here I won't take this any further.

We're at an impasse because you want to blame the victim....not the aggressor.

13 years ago

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#148 the_plan_man

Member since 2011 • 1664 Posts

[QUOTE="the_plan_man"][QUOTE="shadowchronicle"]Religion is not the problem, the problem is the type of people who support those religions. For example, the people who killed by the name of god, no it wasn't religion's fault but do you guys see some connections? shadowchronicle

No...Jesus taught us to love thy neighbor as ourselves. Religion isn't the problem...people are.

My point is that the two are connected even though it was not meant to be. As for jesus telling you guys to love neighbors as ourselves, well I'm sorry but I haven't seen that yet in history. Especially with gays or homosexuals.

Yeah, we as a human race seem to be incapable of doing that simple commandment...even if the religion that we hold so dear tells us to.

13 years ago

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#149 the_plan_man

Member since 2011 • 1664 Posts

[QUOTE="Tokugawa77"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] That's actually not the facts and I suggest some education on the subject. You're making yourself look foolish here....LJS9502_basic

It actually is and since we are at an impass here I won't take this any further.

We're at an impasse because you want to blame the victim....not the aggressor.

Let's just say we're at an impass and call this tangent quits. Neither side is going to cave in.

13 years ago

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#150 Tokugawa77

Member since 2009 • 1554 Posts

[QUOTE="almasdeathchild"]it's my opinion.....it's not ignorance or facts.....foxhound_fox

It's my opinion that you are an idiot. However, my opinion is rooted in demonstrable evidence that supports the reasoning. [QUOTE="Tokugawa77"] I'm not trying to demonize religion, just stating facts. Religion has been responsible for many of the world's attrocities, that's all.

I really hate being "that" guy... but this seems self-contradictory. Especially considering how you aren't considering ALL the facts. What about Mao and Stalin? Did they have religious motivations when executing and imprisoning millions of their own people? I already provided a link that sources a study that concludes only 10% of all conflicts in recorded human history have clear religious motivation. But not even all of those are a "primary" motivation, merely a part of it. It is intellectually dishonest to claim you don't mean to demonize religion, but then go out of your way to show it in an incredibly negative light, weighted heavily against it with the "facts" you present (which doesn't show the whole picture).

I agree that Stalin was an atheist (or at least enforced atheistic policies), and I hate to turn this into a atheist vs theist post, but Stalin did not kill "in the name of atheism", nor did he kill people beacuse of their religion. And how would you know my intent? I only seek to defend my position, nothing more. I don't see how I am portraying religion in a negative light- it is fact that it has caused many conflicts, but then again so has ethnicity and natural recourses, to name a few. I think that you (and some other in this thread) are just slightly biased against anyone who critisizes religion, so when some one voices this opinion, you leap on it as "demonizing".

13 years ago

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