Why does America care about countries being a islamic state?

[QUOTE="Dracargen"][QUOTE="Palax"]

I'm sorry that you feel insulted. Maybe one day you'll learn to control your anger.

Palax

And maybe one day you'll learn that mindlessly insulting anyone who has a different opinion than yours based on sad reading comprehension is childish.

Nobody insulted you, buddy, stop manifesting lies to form an argument.

So do Christian theocracies. Why be a hypocrite?Palax

I threw in Christian to strike a nerve.Palax

I've come to know you as a neoconservative fundamentalist with a scary mentality.Palax

[QUOTE="Frattracide"][QUOTE="Hewkii"][QUOTE="Frattracide"]

What part of his statement was misleading? Islamic theocracies do have a history of being violent.

Palax

as do other theocracies, but one could make the assumption based on this post that Islamic theocracies are...renowned for being so.

They are "renowned for being so." But the poster didn't make a statement that only Islamic Theocracies have a history of violence. Within the context of the topic it was accurate and not misleading.

If you look back far enough then you would see that every country at some point in time could be perceived as having a violent history. I don't think the post was inaccurate or misleading, but I do think that it was a pathetic answer to the question, and by being so pathetic I gathered that it was a statement made out of prejudice.

There is a difference between a history of violence and an enforced system of brutal oppression. And yes almost every country has had a history of violence but that does not excuse a system of brutality. The Idea that a person, who's ancestors were people who did terrible things, should not be allowed to speak out against other people who want to do terrible things because that would somehow make him a hypocrite is asinine.

I dunno, the earlier Islamic theocracies did pretty fine with alot of freedom and stuff. Since the domination of the Western World over Islam their moral standards have been going down hill.

Back in the day (1500s) you could go about Saudi Arabia being gay and jewish.

Now...

Yeah.

So do Christian theocracies. Why be a hypocrite?Palax

Let it go. Read page two where I explain that it wasn't you I called a hypocrite. I'm sorry that you feel it was an insult directed at you. There's not much I can do if you keep insisting otherwise.

I threw in Christian to strike a nerve.Palax

???

Methinks you need to re-evaluate your idea of insult.

I've come to know you as a neoconservative fundamentalist with a scary mentality.Palax

That's my opinion of you based on what I know. I'm sorry that you want to view it as an insult, and in this one case it probably could be perceived as such. I don't think that my statements actually hurt you in any way. I think your just grasping for straws here to bolster your argument. I doubt your taking this whole insult thing seriously, because I have never met you in my life. You shouldn't let people who don't know you bother you with their opinion of you.

BTW that statement is from days ago. I could pull up all of your childish statements made in the past and insist they are insults too, because if you look at the definition of insult http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/insult then you would see that many of your posts were made with the pure intention of causing offense.

So stop it with all the childish nonsense pls.

I dunno, the earlier Islamic theocracies did pretty fine with alot of freedom and stuff. Since the domination of the Western World over Islam their moral standards have been going down hill.

Back in the day (1500s) you could go about Saudi Arabia being gay and jewish.

Now...

Yeah.

thrones

If you submitted to special tax burdens and other forms of oppression. And your safety still wasn't guaranteed.

[QUOTE="Palax"][QUOTE="Frattracide"][QUOTE="Hewkii"][QUOTE="Frattracide"]

What part of his statement was misleading? Islamic theocracies do have a history of being violent.

Frattracide

as do other theocracies, but one could make the assumption based on this post that Islamic theocracies are...renowned for being so.

They are "renowned for being so." But the poster didn't make a statement that only Islamic Theocracies have a history of violence. Within the context of the topic it was accurate and not misleading.

If you look back far enough then you would see that every country at some point in time could be perceived as having a violent history. I don't think the post was inaccurate or misleading, but I do think that it was a pathetic answer to the question, and by being so pathetic I gathered that it was a statement made out of prejudice.

There is a difference between a history of violence and an enforced system of brutal oppression. And yes almost every country has had a history of violence but that does not excuse a system of brutality. The Idea that a person, who's ancestors were people who did terrible things, should not be allowed to speak out against other people who want to do terrible things because that would somehow make him a hypocrite is asinine.

Sorry it took me so long to get to you. I was wasting my time arguing with a certain someone who wants to stay off-toipic. In response to this what I'd like to say is that an enforced system of brutal oppression is not only much more specific but in this case it is much more accurate.

On page 1 I offered the explaination that it was the system of brutal opression America would find critique in as opposed to just the violent history part.

I do want you to know, however, that it's not me who wants to be on the defending side of this whole "violent history" part. As I mentioned above I felt that it was a pathetic answer to the topic question.

Islamic theocracies have very violent histories.

Dracargen

so what?? Let other countries do what they want. It seems like the USA is trying to convert all countries into little mini USAs.

Why?

Because America would prefer they be a Christian state. You know its true. America is a predominantly Christian nation, and has historically been rather unaccepting of other religions, with the notable exception of judasim.

Apart from that rather obvious fact, NO ONE likes islamic states. They are brutal, oppressive and almost entirely homogenous. Look at them. They butcher themselves over dogma even now. Theocracies are like communist states, a failed ideology. The reason that the west is so much more advanced is because we slowly came to our senses that theocracies DONT WORK.

Name me a theocracy better than any secular nation. Go on. Try it. The whole reason America was great for so long was because the constitution was based on secular ideals, and invariably secular ideals defend religion more than religious ones do!

Also, its important to note that America does not like Islamic states because Islamic states have a tendancy to sponsor terrorist organizations that don't exactly send bundles of flowers to America.

There are so many good reasons not to like Islamic states. They suck on a fundamental level. They appitomise failure. Want to look at some failed states? Go look up Islamic states past and present.

Why?

Because America would prefer they be a Christian state. You know its true. America is a predominantly Christian nation, and has historically been rather unaccepting of other religions, with the notable exception of judasim.

Apart from that rather obvious fact, NO ONE likes islamic states. They are brutal, oppressive and almost entirely homogenous. Look at them. They butcher themselves over dogma even now. Theocracies are like communist states, a failed ideology. The reason that the west is so much more advanced is because we slowly came to our senses that theocracies DONT WORK.

Name me a theocracy better than any secular nation. Go on. Try it. The whole reason America was great for so long was because the constitution was based on secular ideals, and invariably secular ideals defend religion more than religious ones do!

Also, its important to note that America does not like Islamic states because Islamic states have a tendancy to sponsor terrorist organizations that don't exactly send bundles of flowers to America.

There are so many good reasons not to like Islamic states. They suck on a fundamental level. They appitomise failure. Want to look at some failed states? Go look up Islamic states past and present.

RKfromDownunder

What about Saudi Arabia, why does America love them so much?

[QUOTE="RKfromDownunder"]

Why?

Because America would prefer they be a Christian state. You know its true. America is a predominantly Christian nation, and has historically been rather unaccepting of other religions, with the notable exception of judasim.

Apart from that rather obvious fact, NO ONE likes islamic states. They are brutal, oppressive and almost entirely homogenous. Look at them. They butcher themselves over dogma even now. Theocracies are like communist states, a failed ideology. The reason that the west is so much more advanced is because we slowly came to our senses that theocracies DONT WORK.

Name me a theocracy better than any secular nation. Go on. Try it. The whole reason America was great for so long was because the constitution was based on secular ideals, and invariably secular ideals defend religion more than religious ones do!

Also, its important to note that America does not like Islamic states because Islamic states have a tendancy to sponsor terrorist organizations that don't exactly send bundles of flowers to America.

There are so many good reasons not to like Islamic states. They suck on a fundamental level. They appitomise failure. Want to look at some failed states? Go look up Islamic states past and present.

thrones

What about Saudi Arabia, why does America love them so much?

They are far more secular than religious.

[QUOTE="RKfromDownunder"]

Why?

Because America would prefer they be a Christian state. You know its true. America is a predominantly Christian nation, and has historically been rather unaccepting of other religions, with the notable exception of judasim.

Apart from that rather obvious fact, NO ONE likes islamic states. They are brutal, oppressive and almost entirely homogenous. Look at them. They butcher themselves over dogma even now. Theocracies are like communist states, a failed ideology. The reason that the west is so much more advanced is because we slowly came to our senses that theocracies DONT WORK.

Name me a theocracy better than any secular nation. Go on. Try it. The whole reason America was great for so long was because the constitution was based on secular ideals, and invariably secular ideals defend religion more than religious ones do!

Also, its important to note that America does not like Islamic states because Islamic states have a tendancy to sponsor terrorist organizations that don't exactly send bundles of flowers to America.

There are so many good reasons not to like Islamic states. They suck on a fundamental level. They appitomise failure. Want to look at some failed states? Go look up Islamic states past and present.

thrones

What about Saudi Arabia, why does America love them so much?

Because they have lots of oil, duh.

Because America would prefer they be a Christian state. You know its true. America is a predominantly Christian nation, and has historically been rather unaccepting of other religions, with the notable exception of judasim.

Name ONE religion, other than Islam, that America (as a nation) has been intolerant of. Go on. Try it.

Name me a theocracy better than any secular nation. Go on. Try it. The whole reason America was great for so long was because the constitution was based on secular ideals, and invariably secular ideals defend religion more than religious ones do!

Because you're so tolerant and accepting?

Let's see, theocracies that are better than America. . . .Egypt? Nah, what did they do, other than rule the world for a few centuries? China? No, since when did medicine ever do anything for the world? Greece? No, astronomy is useless. . . . .gee, it seems you're right.:roll:

RKfromDownunder

Dracargen, are you defending theocracy?fanofazrienoch

No, I'm just opposing the other person's point that there has never been a theocracy that was better than a secular nation.

[QUOTE="Dracargen"]

Islamic theocracies have very violent histories.

Palax

So do Christian Theocracies.....why be a hypocrite?

Within the context of the thread, the statement was accurate. Islamic theocracies do have a history of being very violent.

Frattracide

Generalization?

Why?

Because America would prefer they be a Christian state.

RKfromDownunder

lol, no.

Study some American law history.

[QUOTE="Frattracide"]

Within the context of the thread, the statement was accurate. Islamic theocracies do have a history of being very violent.

Napster06

Generalization?

No...

They are "renowned for being so."

Frattracide

I don't see how in relation to other ones.

It's because of the barbaric, primitive customs that nearly all "Islamic States" embrace. Such as not allowing women to travel independently, drive a car, talk to a male who is not a relative, or attend university. Also because public stoning for adultery just shouldn't be acceptable to any right-thinking person in the 21st century, regardless of the person's religion. Please keep in mind that by "Islamic State", I do not mean moderate Muslim countries, such as Turkey, Morocco, or Bosnia. I'm only referring to places like Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan, where people are required by law to be ultra-religious and backward-thinking. America is right to be concerned with the spread of such extreme ideology among the governments of the Middle East.

But unfortunately, in the final analysis, America is shown to be completely hypocritical. Basically, America doesn't care if you're a state that practices Sharia Law, as long as you're still willing to sell your oil, and don't criticise the US too much. In fact, the whole Western world should be ashamed of itself for being so friendly to such a despicable, despotic regime as is in place in Saudi Arabia at the moment......

[QUOTE="Napster06"][QUOTE="Frattracide"]

Within the context of the thread, the statement was accurate. Islamic theocracies do have a history of being very violent.

The_Ish

Generalization?

No...

How many are there violent states?

[QUOTE="thrones"]

What about Saudi Arabia, why does America love them so much?

Frattracide

They are far more secular than religious.

No, they are not. They are one of the most opressive, despotic Islamic governments in the world. They follow a very strict form of Sharia Law. The only reason the Western nations "love" them is because of the oil, and also because Saudi is smart enough not to outwardly support terrorism or criticise Western democracies.......

How many are there violent states?

Napster06

Pretty much all of them were violent and/or oppressive. It's the nature of any theocracy in which the religion considers itself and it's members in divine favor, or to a lesser extent, it's the nature of any theocracy with an Abrahamic religion (Even the Jewish kingdoms way back then were violent and oppressive).

[QUOTE="Napster06"]

How many are there violent states?

The_Ish

Pretty much all of them were violent and/or oppressive. It's the nature of any theocracy in which the religion considers itself and it's members in divine favor, or to a lesser extent, it's the nature of any theocracy with an Abrahamic religion (Even the Jewish kingdoms way back then were violent and oppressive).

Saudi Arabia is theocracic. And earlier I said the generalization was on Islamic theocracies. Not on theocracy overall.

Why?

Because America would prefer they be a Christian state. You know its true. America is a predominantly Christian nation, and has historically been rather unaccepting of other religions, with the notable exception of judasim. 1.

Apart from that rather obvious fact, NO ONE likes islamic states. They are brutal, oppressive and almost entirely homogenous. Look at them. They butcher themselves over dogma even now. Theocracies are like communist states, a failed ideology. The reason that the west is so much more advanced is because we slowly came to our senses that theocracies DONT WORK. 2.

Name me a theocracy better than any secular nation. Go on. Try it. The whole reason America was great for so long was because the constitution was based on secular ideals, and invariably secular ideals defend religion more than religious ones do! 3.

Also, its important to note that America does not like Islamic states because Islamic states have a tendancy to sponsor terrorist organizations that don't exactly send bundles of flowers to America. 4.

There are so many good reasons not to like Islamic states. They suck on a fundamental level. They appitomise failure. Want to look at some failed states? Go look up Islamic states past and present.5.

RKfromDownunder

The Islamic Caliphate indeed expanded constantly, both by sword and diplomacy. But it did not just attacked any nation at will. They only retaliate to attacks that was posed to them.

Constantinople was captured because the people of Byzantine was feuding among themselves and asked for help.

And remember, Al Qaeda does not attack for no apparent reason.

1.The Islamic Caliphate indeed expanded constantly, both by sword and diplomacy. But it did not just attacked any nation at will. They only retaliate to attacks that was posed to them.

2.Constantinople was captured because the people of Byzantine was feuding among themselves and asked for help.

3. And remember, Al Qaeda does not attack for no apparent reason.

Napster06

[QUOTE="RKfromDownunder"]

Because America would prefer they be a Christian state. You know its true. America is a predominantly Christian nation, and has historically been rather unaccepting of other religions, with the notable exception of judasim.

Name ONE religion, other than Islam, that America (as a nation) has been intolerant of. Go on. Try it.

Name me a theocracy better than any secular nation. Go on. Try it. The whole reason America was great for so long was because the constitution was based on secular ideals, and invariably secular ideals defend religion more than religious ones do!

Because you're so tolerant and accepting?

Let's see, theocracies that are better than America. . . .Egypt? Nah, what did they do, other than rule the world for a few centuries? China? No, since when did medicine ever do anything for the world? Greece? No, astronomy is useless. . . . .gee, it seems you're right.:roll:

Dracargen

Uhhh...yea...kinda just made you look like an idiot...

Islamic theocracies have very violent histories.

Dracargen

...................thats not the case either.....Then why doesn't USA doesn't do anything in Africa or East Asia but insists on ME?

Don't make me get into the history of Christian theocrasises.

[QUOTE="Dracargen"][QUOTE="RKfromDownunder"]

Because America would prefer they be a Christian state. You know its true. America is a predominantly Christian nation, and has historically been rather unaccepting of other religions, with the notable exception of judasim.

Name ONE religion, other than Islam, that America (as a nation) has been intolerant of. Go on. Try it.

Name me a theocracy better than any secular nation. Go on. Try it. The whole reason America was great for so long was because the constitution was based on secular ideals, and invariably secular ideals defend religion more than religious ones do!

Because you're so tolerant and accepting?

Let's see, theocracies that are better than America. . . .Egypt? Nah, what did they do, other than rule the world for a few centuries? China? No, since when did medicine ever do anything for the world? Greece? No, astronomy is useless. . . . .gee, it seems you're right.:roll:

Video_Game_King

Uhhh...yea...kinda just made you look like an idiot...

Did you happen to miss these words?

"AS A NATION."

The United States AS A NATION has never opposed a religion unless it was extremely violent. What you linked to is an article about people in America who are antisemitist.

Yeah, you certainly made someone look like an idiot.

[QUOTE="thrones"][QUOTE="RKfromDownunder"]

Why?

Because America would prefer they be a Christian state. You know its true. America is a predominantly Christian nation, and has historically been rather unaccepting of other religions, with the notable exception of judasim.

Apart from that rather obvious fact, NO ONE likes islamic states. They are brutal, oppressive and almost entirely homogenous. Look at them. They butcher themselves over dogma even now. Theocracies are like communist states, a failed ideology. The reason that the west is so much more advanced is because we slowly came to our senses that theocracies DONT WORK.

Name me a theocracy better than any secular nation. Go on. Try it. The whole reason America was great for so long was because the constitution was based on secular ideals, and invariably secular ideals defend religion more than religious ones do!

Also, its important to note that America does not like Islamic states because Islamic states have a tendancy to sponsor terrorist organizations that don't exactly send bundles of flowers to America.

There are so many good reasons not to like Islamic states. They suck on a fundamental level. They appitomise failure. Want to look at some failed states? Go look up Islamic states past and present.

Frattracide

What about Saudi Arabia, why does America love them so much?

They are far more secular than religious.

WTH?!?!

Saudia Arabia is one of the most ISLAMIC country on earth. Their laws are even harsher than Iran's.

[QUOTE="Dracargen"]

Islamic theocracies have very violent histories.

sentencedogu

...................thats not the case either.....Then why doesn't USA doesn't do anything in Africa or East Asia but insists on ME?

Don't make me get into the history of Christian theocrasises.

Because Islamic theocracies are quite adamant on spreading their religion to the rest of the world (Europe, anyone?). Africa and East Asia are not as great of a threat in that regard.

Christian theocracies, as far as I know, no longer exist, unless the Vatican is considered a country. So go ahead and go off-topic with the violence of Christian theocracies; you won't prove any point, or do anything worthwhile, but you'll make yourself feel slightly more secure by comparison.

[QUOTE="The_Ish"][QUOTE="Napster06"]

How many are there violent states?

Napster06

Pretty much all of them were violent and/or oppressive. It's the nature of any theocracy in which the religion considers itself and it's members in divine favor, or to a lesser extent, it's the nature of any theocracy with an Abrahamic religion (Even the Jewish kingdoms way back then were violent and oppressive).

Saudi Arabia is theocracic. And earlier I said the generalization was on Islamic theocracies. Not on theocracy overall.

And thus, oppressive, and thats why it sucks.

Islamic theocracies suck. Not because it's Islamic, but because it's a theocracy, and in this day in age, the majority of them happen to be Islamic.

[QUOTE="sentencedogu"][QUOTE="Dracargen"]

Islamic theocracies have very violent histories.

Dracargen

...................thats not the case either.....Then why doesn't USA doesn't do anything in Africa or East Asia but insists on ME?

Don't make me get into the history of Christian theocrasises.

Because Islamic theocracies are quite adamant on spreading their religion to the rest of the world (Europe, anyone?). Africa and East Asia are not as great of a threat in that regard.

Christian theocracies, as far as I know, no longer exist, unless the Vatican is considered a country. So go ahead and go off-topic with the violence of Christian theocracies; you won't prove any point, or do anything worthwhile, but you'll make yourself feel slightly more secure by comparison.

I meant in HISTORY..not today. Western civs have passed this problem after 1517 , with Martin Luther King while Easterns got into influence of religion even more. I'm not a supporter of sharia, I'm not even a believer but any nation ruled by religious laws would be violent in modern era.

I doN't know if Muslims want to expands their religions, it's because of some sick-minded people and education systems in these Islamic states.

[QUOTE="Napster06"][QUOTE="The_Ish"][QUOTE="Napster06"]

How many are there violent states?

The_Ish

Pretty much all of them were violent and/or oppressive. It's the nature of any theocracy in which the religion considers itself and it's members in divine favor, or to a lesser extent, it's the nature of any theocracy with an Abrahamic religion (Even the Jewish kingdoms way back then were violent and oppressive).

Saudi Arabia is theocracic. And earlier I said the generalization was on Islamic theocracies. Not on theocracy overall.

And thus, oppressive, and thats why it sucks.

Islamic theocracies suck. Not because it's Islamic, but because it's a theocracy, and in this day in age, the majority of them happen to be Islamic.

And remember, Al Qaeda does not attack for no apparent reason.

Napster06

This is a horribly misguided comment. Nothing happens for no reason, but I think that Al Qaeda tends to be a little too extreme in their responses to these "reasons"... No reason can justify 9/11, and I'm not even American.

I certainly don't like the Christian nuts who enjoy so much power in the US nowadays, and I hate the policies of the current US government. Yet, I find that Al Qaeda have absolutely no excuses. It's a loosely connected association of utter lunatics and suicidal halfwits. Their only "reason" is to cause as much death and destruction as they can, so that the West will fear them. They murder indiscriminately, and it's hard to see any rhyme or "reason" to their actions, other than instability and carnage. And I, my good sir, do not like those "reasons".

And the biggest tragedy is that they still manage to find support among the misinformed or disillusioned Muslims from all over the world, who make excuses for them, and try to justify their despicable acts.

[QUOTE="faisal123456"]When Iran became an islamic state the US government had much critism on them. There is also a lot of critism of islamic law.Palax

Playing devil's advocate here, but I'm hoping that it's the humanitarian issues that arise from islamic states. Such as women not having rights, or practicing the age old custom of "stoning" for punishment.

How is "stoning" wrong?

any nation ruled by religious laws would be violent in modern era.

[QUOTE="Palax"]

[QUOTE="faisal123456"]When Iran became an islamic state the US government had much critism on them. There is also a lot of critism of islamic law.MFaraz_Hayat

Playing devil's advocate here, but I'm hoping that it's the humanitarian issues that arise from islamic states. Such as women not having rights, or practicing the age old custom of "stoning" for punishment.

How is "stoning" wrong?

Like in a brutal way? Would you like to be stoned to death? Death is a big deal my friend.

[QUOTE="Napster06"][QUOTE="The_Ish"][QUOTE="Napster06"]

How many are there violent states?

The_Ish

Pretty much all of them were violent and/or oppressive. It's the nature of any theocracy in which the religion considers itself and it's members in divine favor, or to a lesser extent, it's the nature of any theocracy with an Abrahamic religion (Even the Jewish kingdoms way back then were violent and oppressive).

Saudi Arabia is theocracic. And earlier I said the generalization was on Islamic theocracies. Not on theocracy overall.

And thus, oppressive, and thats why it sucks.

Islamic theocracies suck. Not because it's Islamic, but because it's a theocracy, and in this day in age, the majority of them happen to be Islamic.

But isn't crime rate in Suadi Arabia extremely low?

I meant in HISTORY..not today. Western civs have passed this problem after 1517 , with Martin Luther King while Easterns got into influence of religion even more. I'm not a supporter of sharia, I'm not even a believer but any nation ruled by religious laws would be violent in modern era.

I doN't know if Muslims want to expands their religions, it's because of some sick-minded people and education systems in these Islamic states.

sentencedogu

I know you meant in HISTORY, because you couldn't possibly mean anything else, because Christian theocracies no longer exist (as far as I know).

But TODAY, Islamic theocracies (which do still exist) are very violent, and thus they are an issue worth addressing.