Why is it morally objectionable to allow illegal immigrants to get healthcare?

So I listen to a lot of conservative talk radio, and I keep hearing the conservative pundits complain that the Public option being considered by Congress may cover illegal immigrants. Why do they complain about this? Some even say that it is just basic human decency to not give illegal aliens public health insurance.

So yeah, I'm not getting why this is morally objectionable.

I would presume the obvious answer would be that they do not pay taxes that they would were they a lawful resident; therefore they are taking out without giving in what others are expected to give in.

I would presume the obvious answer would be that they do not pay taxes that they would were they a lawful resident; therefore they are taking out without giving in what others are expected to give in.

GabuEx

Not that I'm in favor of the public option (I'm vehemently against it), but this particular sentiment seems immoral and overtly nationalist.

It puts a burden on the taxpayer.

Not wrong to provide with healthcare, as in allow use of our hospitals, but to give them free health insurance? That I don't agree with. They're in the country illegally, how would they even app for it?TwiztidJoker

SEC. 246. NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS. Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.HR 3200

I don't think its morally objectionable, I do think it is politically and economically objectionable though.

[QUOTE="TwiztidJoker"]Not wrong to provide with healthcare, as in allow use of our hospitals, but to give them free health insurance? That I don't agree with. They're in the country illegally, how would they even app for it?nocoolnamejim

SEC. 246. NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS. Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.HR 3200

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

I would presume the obvious answer would be that they do not pay taxes that they would were they a lawful resident; therefore they are taking out without giving in what others are expected to give in.

danwallacefan

Not that I'm in favor of the public option (I'm vehemently against it), but this particular sentiment seems immoral and overtly nationalist.

They have the money, they don't feel they should pay taxes because they are Mexican, the deserve take all they make back with them to Mexico. I'm friends with some of them but they are parasitic. They take what they can and haven't contributed anything to our community or America for the last 8 years.

but why not? Dont you think its immoral for the Government to deny certain people services just because they happen to be born on some other arbitrarily defined plot of land?

danwallacefan

If you would like to put together a one world government where everyone's money is pooled, be my guest, but until then we do have those arbitrarily defined plots of land and no one government of any arbitrarily defined plot of land is capable of paying for every single person on Earth. :P

Is it morally objectionable? Not really - but there are certainly practical reasons not to do so.

[QUOTE="TwiztidJoker"]Not wrong to provide with healthcare, as in allow use of our hospitals, but to give them free health insurance? That I don't agree with. They're in the country illegally, how would they even app for it?nocoolnamejim

SEC. 246. NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS. Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.HR 3200

[QUOTE="nocoolnamejim"][QUOTE="TwiztidJoker"]Not wrong to provide with healthcare, as in allow use of our hospitals, but to give them free health insurance? That I don't agree with. They're in the country illegally, how would they even app for it?danwallacefan

SEC. 246. NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS. Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.HR 3200

I do not think it is morally objectionable to provide health care.

The U.S. is a bit of a xenophobic country at the moment IMO. nocoolnamejim

Give them healthcare.

When they leave the hospital, either give them a green card or a ride back over the border.

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

I would presume the obvious answer would be that they do not pay taxes that they would were they a lawful resident; therefore they are taking out without giving in what others are expected to give in.

danwallacefan

Not that I'm in favor of the public option (I'm vehemently against it), but this particular sentiment seems immoral and overtly nationalist.

If you aren't a legal citizen of the U.S., then you don't deserve health care. In fact, you don't deserve anything. If I went to another country and demanded civilian services and I wasn't a citizen, I would expect to be deported. It's pretty basic logic here folks.

I pay taxes on everything. What would provoke illegal immigrants to think they can have anything for free in America? I consider myself fiercely liberal. I don't like a lot of things in the U.S., but I happen to agree with the idea that illegals don't deserve a damn thing.

And you can point to the fact that most Americans that came to America were "kinda" illegal, but at least they came on a boat. And signed in. And then started paying taxes.

When illegal immigrants start paying taxes like the rest of us, then I'll start to change how I feel. As is, they don't deserve jack.

If you aren't a legal citizen of the U.S., then you don't deserve health care. In fact, you don't deserve anything. If I went to another country and demanded civilian services and I wasn't a citizen, I would expect to be deported. It's pretty basic logic here folks.

I pay taxes on everything. What would provoke illegal immigrants to think they can have anything for free in America? I consider myself fiercely liberal. I don't like a lot of things in the U.S., but I happen to agree with the idea that illegals don't deserve a damn thing.

And you can point to the fact that most Americans that came to America were "kinda" illegal, but at least they came on a boat. And signed in. And then started paying taxes.

When illegal immigrants start paying taxes like the rest of us, then I'll start to change how I feel. As is, they don't deserve jack.

starfox15

I couldn't agree with you more.

I (will) pay taxes they don't, they don't deserve it.

For me, it is that simple.

It puts a burden on the taxpayer.

avatar_genius

If they pay for it, it's fine, but they don't. They don't pay taxes.

If you aren't a legal citizen of the U.S., then you don't deserve health care. In fact, you don't deserve anything. If I went to another country and demanded civilian services and I wasn't a citizen, I would expect to be deported. It's pretty basic logic here folks.

I pay taxes on everything. What would provoke illegal immigrants to think they can have anything for free in America? I consider myself fiercely liberal. I don't like a lot of things in the U.S., but I happen to agree with the idea that illegals don't deserve a damn thing.

And you can point to the fact that most Americans that came to America were "kinda" illegal, but at least they came on a boat. And signed in. And then started paying taxes.

When illegal immigrants start paying taxes like the rest of us, then I'll start to change how I feel. As is, they don't deserve jack.

starfox15

Good to know that a liberal or two does have some common sense with respect to this issue.

If you aren't a legal citizen of the U.S., then you don't deserve health care. In fact, you don't deserve anything. If I went to another country and demanded civilian services and I wasn't a citizen, I would expect to be deported. It's pretty basic logic here folks.

I pay taxes on everything. What would provoke illegal immigrants to think they can have anything for free in America? I consider myself fiercely liberal. I don't like a lot of things in the U.S., but I happen to agree with the idea that illegals don't deserve a damn thing.

And you can point to the fact that most Americans that came to America were "kinda" illegal, but at least they came on a boat. And signed in. And then started paying taxes.

When illegal immigrants start paying taxes like the rest of us, then I'll start to change how I feel. As is, they don't deserve jack.

starfox15

So I listen to a lot of conservative talk radio, and I keep hearing the conservative pundits complain that the Public option being considered by Congress may cover illegal immigrants. Why do they complain about this? Some even say that it is just basic human decency to not give illegal aliens public health insurance.

So yeah, I'm not getting why this is morally objectionable.

danwallacefan

This nation was basically made up of people who came here because they wanted to, and any and all were allowed, so it would be strange to go backwards on that ideal.

This nation was basically made up of people who came here because they wanted to, and any and all were allowed, so it would be strange to go backwards on that ideal.

avatar_genius

The sort of responses to my point are quite disturbing. You seem to treat the welfare state as some kind of exchange between poor people (the recipients of said welfare) and the Government. I disagree entirely. The welfare state exists IN ORDER TO provide welfare, healthcare, and other basic services to people *who cannot afford* to pay for said services on their own

Not that I agree one iota with the welfare state, but I think there is a gross misunderstanding of the moral principle that founds the welfare state.

The sort of responses to my point are quite disturbing. You seem to treat the welfare state as some kind of exchange between poor people (the recipients of said welfare) and the Government. I disagree entirely. The welfare state exists IN ORDER TO provide welfare, healthcare, and other basic services to people *who cannot afford* to pay for said services on their own

Not that I agree one iota with the welfare state, but I think there is a gross misunderstanding of the moral principle that founds the welfare state.

danwallacefan

The problem is, while welfare etc serves a good intention, it causes dependancy and abuse of the system and takes away incentive.

...lol, this coming from a poster who has a milton friedman quote in his sig, no less, supporting government welfare, oh well ....

The problem is, while welfare etc serves a good intention, it causes dependancy and abuse of the system and takes away incentive.avatar_genius

I think it is common sense right? I mean they do not deserve to have free healthcare. Why? Well because they are not contributing to the country. In order to support this so called public healthcare system it comes out of our paychecks. Illegal immigrants are either not working or aren't getting paid by check because they don't have a social.

If you aren't a legal citizen of the U.S., then you don't deserve health care. In fact, you don't deserve anything.

starfox15

Its not morally objectionable its just stupid to give free things who came here in a way that is illegal, and should be in jail somewhere anyway.

They're not paying taxes, they shouldn't get coverage. It's pretty basic logic.

[QUOTE="starfox15"]

If you aren't a legal citizen of the U.S., then you don't deserve health care. In fact, you don't deserve anything.

bobaban

[QUOTE="bobaban"][QUOTE="starfox15"]

If you aren't a legal citizen of the U.S., then you don't deserve health care. In fact, you don't deserve anything.

rawsavon

we don't control/influence that, big business does. :|

[QUOTE="rawsavon"][QUOTE="bobaban"] Sums up my thoughts.samuraiguns

we don't control/influence that, big business does. :|

I'd think it is morally objectionable to not allow others to have healthcare. The biggest issues are paying for it and giving something paid by tax payers to those who do not pay taxes. Because of those two things, it's hard to simply give healthcare away from an economic standpoint.mindstorm

Thank you...finally someone else who would not deny a fellow person medical care.
I understand not wanting to give stuff away...but this is not like other "things"...this is people's lives