Why piracy is not like stealing in a store

Now, Before we get started, I in no way endorse piracy. It's illegal and should not be condoned.

With that being said, the whole "Would you steal it in a store," argument falls flat for the fight against piracy.

What people fail to realize is that, when you buy a digital file from say Steam, you aren't buying the game, you are buying a license to use the game.

Whereas in the store you are buying the physical copy.

Buying a license =/= buying the actual physical game.

Buying a license =/= buying the actual physical game.

SaintWalrus

So? There was still a fee attached. Which you didn't pay.

So? There was still a fee attached. Which you didn't pay.

LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="SaintWalrus"]

Buying a license =/= buying the actual physical game.

JustPlainLucas

A better argument would be that when you pirate they aren't losing a physical product so it doesn't actually cost them money.

Which is still a bad argument

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

So? There was still a fee attached. Which you didn't pay.

hadoken

[QUOTE="hadoken"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

So? There was still a fee attached. Which you didn't pay.

LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="SaintWalrus"]

Buying a license =/= buying the actual physical game.

JustPlainLucas

Stealing a physical copy from a store prevents another person from buying that copy, and so can cost the store/distributor money even if the thief had no intention of buying the game even if he hadn't stolen it. Pirating the game does not. So they aren't exactly the same.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="hadoken"] lots of people pirate stuff that they would never buy in the first place like the adobe products noobPirate700

[QUOTE="hadoken"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

So? There was still a fee attached. Which you didn't pay.

LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="JustPlainLucas"][QUOTE="SaintWalrus"]

Buying a license =/= buying the actual physical game.

chessmaster1989

Stealing a physical copy from a store prevents another person from buying that copy, and so can cost the store/distributor money even if the thief had no intention of buying the game even if he hadn't stolen it. Pirating the game does not.

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Hey man.....that just means lots of people are unethical cheats. LJS9502_basic

With physical theft somebody is, by necessity, being deprived of property. With piracy no one is depived of property and a pirated copy does not necessarily equal a loss of sale.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="hadoken"] lots of people pirate stuff that they would never buy in the first place like the adobe products noobhadoken

When you steal something from a store, you make said item inaccessible to anyone else.

When you pirate something, you duplicate said item, enabling others to also access said item.

So it's like having your car stolen one night, but you still have it.

With physical theft somebody is, by necessity, being deprived of property. With piracy no one is depived of property and a pirated copy does not necessarily equal a loss of sale.

worlock77

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="hadoken"] lots of people pirate stuff that they would never buy in the first place like the adobe products noobhadoken

[QUOTE="JustPlainLucas"][QUOTE="SaintWalrus"]

Buying a license =/= buying the actual physical game.

Dark__Link

Another way you can look at it is if somebody at a movie theater sneaks into a different movie without buying a new ticket he's stealing even though he's not taking a physical copy of the movie with him. Only with piracy he probably has less of a chance of actually getting caught. The theater may not have lost a sale but the theater hopper still stole from them.

A lot of people (not yourself, if what you say about your opinion of piracy is true) try to justify pirating stuff by saying the copyright owners are crooks who charge too much and deserve to be ripped off for overcharging. Yahoo did a story about piracy once and over half of the comments supported piracy and comments against piracy were all hidden due to low ratings.

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]

[QUOTE="JustPlainLucas"] Pirating a 60 dollar license = stealing a 60 dollar game from the store. Either the way, you were supposed to give the company money, but you did not. They lost a sale from you because you either pirated or stole a physical copy. LJS9502_basic

Stealing a physical copy from a store prevents another person from buying that copy, and so can cost the store/distributor money even if the thief had no intention of buying the game even if he hadn't stolen it. Pirating the game does not.

My only point was that theft of the physical copy harms the store more concretely that piracy. While piracy is and should be illegal, I would say it's actual harm to the company is very difficult to guage.

so some sales are lost.LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="hadoken"] lots of people pirate stuff that they would never buy in the first place like the adobe products noobhadoken

Were you dropped on your head as a child?

You don't need to write a thread about it.

If somebody thinks they are the same thing he has no clue what he's talking about and isn't worth talking to, plain and simple.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]

Stealing a physical copy from a store prevents another person from buying that copy, and so can cost the store/distributor money even if the thief had no intention of buying the game even if he hadn't stolen it. Pirating the game does not.

chessmaster1989

My only point was that theft of the physical copy harms the store more concretely that piracy. While piracy is and should be illegal, I would say it's actual harm to the company is very difficult to guage.

[QUOTE="hadoken"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Hey man.....that just means lots of people are unethical cheats. Pirate700

Simpsons

Another way you can look at it is if somebody at a movie theater sneaks into a different movie without buying a new ticket he's stealing even though he's not taking a physical copy of the movie with him. Only with piracy he probably has less of a chance of actually getting caught. The theater may not have lost a sale but the theater hopper still stole from them.ad1x2

How is the theater hopper stealing from them? Ether way he's paid his admission, he simply decided to view a different film.

But.....while not everyone that pirates will purchase....some of those individuals would have purchased....so some sales are lost.LJS9502_basic

And some of those who pirate may eventually buy the thing they pirated because they tried it and enjoyed it.

It goes both way - the bs about "some sales are lost" is a naive logical fallacy.

Another way you can look at it is if somebody at a movie theater sneaks into a different movie without buying a new ticket he's stealing even though he's not taking a physical copy of the movie with him. Only with piracy he probably has less of a chance of actually getting caught. The theater may not have lost a sale but the theater hopper still stole from them.ad1x2

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]so some sales are lost.foxhound_fox

They're both wrong, so they're both stealing. Case closed.SolidSnake35

It's arguments like these that make me think Gandhi was too optimist with his dirty drops in an ocean analogy.

[QUOTE="SaintWalrus"]

Buying a license =/= buying the actual physical game.

JustPlainLucas

[QUOTE="ad1x2"]Another way you can look at it is if somebody at a movie theater sneaks into a different movie without buying a new ticket he's stealing even though he's not taking a physical copy of the movie with him. Only with piracy he probably has less of a chance of actually getting caught. The theater may not have lost a sale but the theater hopper still stole from them.worlock77

How is the theater hopper stealing from them? Ether way he's paid his admission, he simply decided to view a different film.

He paid for one film but he watched two or more. Plus, there's always the possibility of sneaking into a sold out film and somebody who got there late but bought a ticket ends up not getting a seat (happened to me when I watched the movie Ray back in 2004).

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]But.....while not everyone that pirates will purchase....some of those individuals would have purchased....so some sales are lost.N30F3N1X

And some of those who pirate may eventually buy the thing they pirated because they tried it and enjoyed it.

It goes both way - the bs about "some sales are lost" is a naive logical fallacy.

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]so some sales are lost.LJS9502_basic

Why did you simply ignore his second sentence?

[QUOTE="ad1x2"]Another way you can look at it is if somebody at a movie theater sneaks into a different movie without buying a new ticket he's stealing even though he's not taking a physical copy of the movie with him. Only with piracy he probably has less of a chance of actually getting caught. The theater may not have lost a sale but the theater hopper still stole from them.foxhound_fox

How is it not the same (not counting one is in a theater while the other is over the Internet)? A pirate who downloads a movie didn't pay for it but is still enjoying it. A theater hopper is watching a movie he didn't buy a ticket for. They didn't steal any physical medial but they're still doing something for free they were supposed to pay for.

You pirate don't you? You are justifying an illegal activity. Until you can prove that NOT ONE individual that pirated would ever have a physical copy...you are being naive here. Some people WOULD buy a copy if it was the only way they could get it. That doesn't mean all.....but it's illogical to say none of them. Illogical.LJS9502_basic

Nope, I got my logic straight, you're the one who's completely disregarding half of the peculiarity of what you're talking about.

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="ad1x2"]Another way you can look at it is if somebody at a movie theater sneaks into a different movie without buying a new ticket he's stealing even though he's not taking a physical copy of the movie with him. Only with piracy he probably has less of a chance of actually getting caught. The theater may not have lost a sale but the theater hopper still stole from them.ad1x2

How is the theater hopper stealing from them? Ether way he's paid his admission, he simply decided to view a different film.

He paid for one film but he watched two or more. Plus, there's always the possibility of sneaking into a sold out film and somebody who got there late but bought a ticket ends up not getting a seat (happened to me when I watched the movie Ray back in 2004).

We might be talking about different things. I'm talking about a man who purchases a ticket to one film, a few minutes into it decides it's not interesting him, so we walkes out of that movie and into the one playing next to it. No matter what movie he bought the ticket for and ultimately sits down to watch he's not taking anything that he hasn't paid for.

They're both wrong, so they're both stealing. Case closed.SolidSnake35

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] You pirate don't you? You are justifying an illegal activity. Until you can prove that NOT ONE individual that pirated would ever have a physical copy...you are being naive here. Some people WOULD buy a copy if it was the only way they could get it. That doesn't mean all.....but it's illogical to say none of them. Illogical.N30F3N1X

Nope, I got my logic straight, you're the one who's completely disregarding half of the peculiarity of what you're talking about.

How is it not the same (not counting one is in a theater while the other is over the Internet)? A pirate who downloads a movie didn't pay for it but is still enjoying it. A theater hopper is watching a movie he didn't buy a ticket for. They didn't steal any physical medial but they're still doing something for free they were supposed to pay for.ad1x2

[QUOTE="N30F3N1X"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] You pirate don't you? You are justifying an illegal activity. Until you can prove that NOT ONE individual that pirated would ever have a physical copy...you are being naive here. Some people WOULD buy a copy if it was the only way they could get it. That doesn't mean all.....but it's illogical to say none of them. Illogical.LJS9502_basic

Nope, I got my logic straight, you're the one who's completely disregarding half of the peculiarity of what you're talking about.

And again, you're completely disregarding half of what you're talking about for no reason whatsoever.

Try again? Nope, my point still stands until you can make an argument against it ;)

[QUOTE="ad1x2"]

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

How is the theater hopper stealing from them? Ether way he's paid his admission, he simply decided to view a different film.

worlock77

He paid for one film but he watched two or more. Plus, there's always the possibility of sneaking into a sold out film and somebody who got there late but bought a ticket ends up not getting a seat (happened to me when I watched the movie Ray back in 2004).

We might be talking about different things. I'm talking about a man who purchases a ticket to one film, a few minutes into it decides it's not interesting him, so we walkes out of that movie and into the one playing next to it. No matter what movie he bought the ticket for and ultimately sits down to watch he's not taking anything that he hasn't paid for.

but some would.LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="ad1x2"]

He paid for one film but he watched two or more. Plus, there's always the possibility of sneaking into a sold out film and somebody who got there late but bought a ticket ends up not getting a seat (happened to me when I watched the movie Ray back in 2004).

LJS9502_basic

We might be talking about different things. I'm talking about a man who purchases a ticket to one film, a few minutes into it decides it's not interesting him, so we walkes out of that movie and into the one playing next to it. No matter what movie he bought the ticket for and ultimately sits down to watch he's not taking anything that he hasn't paid for.

That may be, but that isn't what ad1x2 is arguing. He's arguing that it's stealing from the theater.