Why piracy is not like stealing in a store

[QUOTE="peterw007"]

Ehh, yes and no.

If you're trying to watch a show on Hulu and you can't because you live in Canada, that's just unfair.

In those cases I think piracy is more justified.

-

I'm not saying piracy is ever a good thing...because it isn't.

But I won't call people who can't afford a show (or live in a place where they can't get the show) "criminals"...because many times it just isn't their fault.

DVDs and Blu-rays can be immensely expensive, especially for those who don't live in a first-world country and their wages are 1/10th of what American wages are.

airshocker

Sorry, there's no two ways about it. Piracy is never justified.

What do you think are the reasons people pirate?

The difference lies in how the objects exist. See when you pirate something, it can be infintely pirated. If someone uploads a video game to the Pirate Bay or something like that, then thousands of people can download that game. However if someone steals something from a store they can only steal a set number of copies. I cannot infintely steal Modern Warfare 3 from my local store because they only have set number of copies because it is a physical object. With piracy the objects in question are digital and an infinite number of copies can be stolen.

The difference lies in how the objects exist. See when you pirate something, it can be infintely pirated. If someone uploads a video game to the Pirate Bay or something like that, then thousands of people can download that game. However if someone steals something from a store they can only steal a set number of copies. I cannot infintely steal Modern Warfare 3 from my local store because they only have set number of copies because it is a physical object. With piracy the objects in question are digital and an infinite number of copies can be stolen.

DarkGamer007

[QUOTE="peterw007"]

That's the fault of the owners.

If they made their IP widely available in HD / Lossless quality with advertisements, there would be no need for piracy.

-

It's strictly because of the arrogance of the owners that piracy thrives.

airshocker

That doesn't make it acceptable to pirate.

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

[QUOTE="peterw007"]

Ehh, yes and no.

If you're trying to watch a show on Hulu and you can't because you live in Canada, that's just unfair.

In those cases I think piracy is more justified.

-

I'm not saying piracy is ever a good thing...because it isn't.

But I won't call people who can't afford a show (or live in a place where they can't get the show) "criminals"...because many times it just isn't their fault.

DVDs and Blu-rays can be immensely expensive, especially for those who don't live in a first-world country and their wages are 1/10th of what American wages are.

peterw007

Sorry, there's no two ways about it. Piracy is never justified.

What do you think are the reasons people pirate?

I would say saying "piracy is never justified" isn't right to say, they're exist many grey areas and many "it is legally but ethnically/morally fine" areas as well.

I use to pirate games a lot. Nealy every game I owned was pirated. THen in 2004 or something I bought a new PC and made a fresh start. Genuine operationg system and games. Then when steam started to expand it's range of games I no longer felt the need to pirate games.

It was a sound analogy.
You're crying because someone potentially lost a sale when piracy occurs.
But they didn't, a company will print X copies of a game, and piracy doesn't remove a hard copy intended for sale. Nor does it prevent future sales.

If walking down the road, i find a CD, should i leave it there? I didn't pay for it, technically it doesn't belong to me, but at the same time, no-ones there claiming it. If i didn't take the CD, i might go to the store and buy it, i might not. Does me picking up that CD and putting it into my stereo, (only to realise that i dont even like the band) count as a "potentially lost sale"? Certainly seems like it, as i maybe, might have bought it if i didnt pick it up.
If only i didn't pick up the CD, only to learn the band sucked. Maybe then i could've wasted my money to realise they suck and that the CD wasn't worth my money.

Nibroc420

It was a pretty sh*tty analogy that doesn't accurately represent what's being discussed. It's probably more of an appeal to ridicule than anything else.

You're in no position to say whether the sale wasn't lost. Until you can show that every single person who has pirated has turned right back around and bought the product, you have nothing to stand on.

Technically it's theft, not piracy. Another bad example.

What do you think are the reasons people pirate?

peterw007

I don't care what the reasons are someone would pirate.

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

[QUOTE="peterw007"]

That's the fault of the owners.

If they made their IP widely available in HD / Lossless quality with advertisements, there would be no need for piracy.

-

It's strictly because of the arrogance of the owners that piracy thrives.

markop2003

That doesn't make it acceptable to pirate.

Sorry, there's no two ways about it. Piracy is never justified.airshocker

[QUOTE="DarkGamer007"]

The difference lies in how the objects exist. See when you pirate something, it can be infintely pirated. If someone uploads a video game to the Pirate Bay or something like that, then thousands of people can download that game. However if someone steals something from a store they can only steal a set number of copies. I cannot infintely steal Modern Warfare 3 from my local store because they only have set number of copies because it is a physical object. With piracy the objects in question are digital and an infinite number of copies can be stolen.

Nibroc420

It doesn't matter, not only is stealing an electronic good from a store fairly difficult not to get caught in comparison to illegally downloading music or video games, but like I said a digital copy can be downloaded infintely, a stolen copy can only be stolen once. The difference between the number of digital copies stolen will outweight the number of physical copies stolen so much that the cost of printing the physical copy becomes irrelavent.

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="collegeboy64"]If it does not belong to you and you take it without the owner's permission you are a no good, low down dirty god damn thief. I don't care if you take by stuffing it down your pants at walmart or you take by clicking on a virtual button in your browser. If you know it belongs to someone else, and you know they expect to be paid by you before they willingly give their permission to use it, and you take it anyway, without paying, you are a **** thief. End of discussion. Don't like being called a thief? Stop stealing other people's property.collegeboy64

If I download an album I have stolen nothing from anybody. I have infringed on their copyright perhaps, but I have deprived them of no property.

No, because the artist has no guarentee of ever being paid for his efforts by me in the first place. The plumber did. Flawed analogy is flawed.

Actually i think in Iran it is, they don't recognise American copyright. Is it really wrong for someone in India on under $100 a month to pirate some music? If they don't pirate it they'll just never listen to it, the chances of someone in their position acquiring a western wage in their lifetime is pretty much 0.markop2003

Yes.

Piracy is theft. It wonders me how people still pirate despite knowing that they're stealingkingkong0124

Rationalizations.

The difference lies in how the objects exist. See when you pirate something, it can be infintely pirated. If someone uploads a video game to the Pirate Bay or something like that, then thousands of people can download that game. However if someone steals something from a store they can only steal a set number of copies. I cannot infintely steal Modern Warfare 3 from my local store because they only have set number of copies because it is a physical object. With piracy the objects in question are digital and an infinite number of copies can be stolen.DarkGamer007

Piracy is theft.kingkong0124

It was a pretty sh*tty analogy that doesn't accurately represent what's being discussed. It's probably more of an appeal to ridicule than anything else.airshocker

It shows how everything can count as "a potentially lost sale" from your friend lending you a CD to see if you like the band, to finding something cool.

You're in no position to say whether the sale wasn't lost. Until you can show that every single person who has pirated has turned right back around and bought the product, you have nothing to stand on.airshocker

You're in no position to suggest that the pirate would've BOUGHT the item in question. All you can say it that they MIGHT HAVE. "Might" suggests there's a possiblity they wouldn't buy it.
All i can say is that when Steam made itself availible to Eastern Europe, piracy droped there, because people in that region were now able to buy games, ON RELEASE (what's this 4-5 month delay for?) without some insane markup. Previous to Steam doing so, piracy was insane in that area, because there'd be no selection, games would release late, and they'd be 2x as expensive.

Technically it's theft, not piracy. Another bad example.

airshocker

It's not theft. It was thrown away, it belonged to no-one.
Me picking it up however allowed me to understand the music sucked, and so now i know why someone would throw it away. Now that i know this, I wont buy music from that band. If i hadn't known hwo bad they were, i might've bought one of their CD's one day. Hint: that's a potenially lost sale ;)

Of course it's not the same, I think that's pretty obvious.

[QUOTE="markop2003"]Actually i think in Iran it is, they don't recognise American copyright. Is it really wrong for someone in India on under $100 a month to pirate some music? If they don't pirate it they'll just never listen to it, the chances of someone in their position acquiring a western wage in their lifetime is pretty much 0.airshocker

Yes.

No, it's not.

I think Most if not all of us have downloaded the odd song in our time. You can't deny it. Yes i'm talking to you. You know it, I know it. Don't deny it. I saw you, I was there. Hiding behind your curtains. I have a video of you downloading it. It's already on youtube. Run.

I think Most if not all of us have downloaded the odd song in our time. You can't deny it. Yes i'm talking to you. You know it, I know it. Don't deny it. I saw you, I was there. Hiding behind your curtains. I have a video of you downloading it. It's already on youtube. Run.

HyperWarlock

LOL

So true.

So, by this analogy..... Identity theft isn't stealing because nothing physical was taken........Mafiree

I know this might be difficult, but could you please come up with a somewhat more ridiculious analogy? This one isn't quite batsh*t enough.

[QUOTE="Mafiree"]So, by this analogy..... Identity theft isn't stealing because nothing physical was taken........worlock77

I know this might be difficult, but could you please come up with a somewhat more ridiculious analogy? This one isn't quite batsh*t enough.

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="Mafiree"]So, by this analogy..... Identity theft isn't stealing because nothing physical was taken........Mafiree

I know this might be difficult, but could you please come up with a somewhat more ridiculious analogy? This one isn't quite batsh*t enough.

Seriously? Are you trolling or are you ignorant? For starters identity destroys someone else's credit and generates massive debt for that person.

[QUOTE="Mafiree"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

I know this might be difficult, but could you please come up with a somewhat more ridiculious analogy? This one isn't quite batsh*t enough.

worlock77

Seriously? Are you trolling or are you ignorant? For starters identity destroys someone else's credit and generates massive debt for that person.

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="Mafiree"] Explain how it is wrong champ......Mafiree

Seriously? Are you trolling or are you ignorant? For starters identity destroys someone else's credit and generates massive debt for that person.

Ah I get it. You're being stupidly pedantic. Congratulations! You might have even beaten LJS_Basic in this department.

[QUOTE="Mafiree"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

Seriously? Are you trolling or are you ignorant? For starters identity destroys someone else's credit and generates massive debt for that person.

worlock77

Ah I get it. You're being stupidly pedantic. Congratulations! You might have even beaten LJS_Basic in this department.

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="Mafiree"] And is credit physical..........Mafiree

Ah I get it. You're being stupidly pedantic. Congratulations! You might have even beaten LJS_Basic in this department.

I don't care what the reasons are someone would pirate.

airshocker

Sorry, there's no two ways about it. Piracy is never justified.

airshocker

And we have another bigotry prize winner here folks.

I wonder how long is it going to take before people like you take your heads out of your asses and start using your own perceptive senses.

[QUOTE="Mafiree"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

Ah I get it. You're being stupidly pedantic. Congratulations! You might have even beaten LJS_Basic in this department.

Xsan3

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="Mafiree"] And is credit physical..........Mafiree

Ah I get it. You're being stupidly pedantic. Congratulations! You might have even beaten LJS_Basic in this department.

Theft deprives a person of property. Identity theft included, as you're robbing that person of their credit. Credit may not be physical, but it is very much a tangible good. By downloading a copy of a music album nobody is being deprived of property.

OMGoodness, a little testy huh? Stealing is Stealing . . No matter how you want to catergorize it. Laws should apply the same.

Xsan3

And the laws don't apply the same because they are NOT the same.

But you know that they are the same better than lawmakers, right?

If piracy really hurts creators then why can't I copy games from companies I don't like repeatedly to watch them suffer?

[QUOTE="Xsan3"]

[QUOTE="Mafiree"] That is what the whole thread was based on......Mafiree

[QUOTE="Mafiree"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

Ah I get it. You're being stupidly pedantic. Congratulations! You might have even beaten LJS_Basic in this department.

worlock77

Theft deprives a person of property. Identity theft included, as you're robbing that person of their credit. Credit may not be physical, but it is very much a tangible good. By downloading a copy of a music album nobody is being deprived of property.

[QUOTE="Mafiree"][QUOTE="Xsan3"]OMGoodness, a little testy huh? Stealing is Stealing . . No matter how you want to catergorize it. Laws should apply the same.

Xsan3

Defensive? Nope, just calling out a stupid comparison.

You're in no position to suggest that the pirate would've BOUGHT the item in question. All you can say it that they MIGHT HAVE. "Might" suggests there's a possiblity they wouldn't buy it.
All i can say is that when Steam made itself availible to Eastern Europe, piracy droped there, because people in that region were now able to buy games, ON RELEASE (what's this 4-5 month delay for?) without some insane markup. Previous to Steam doing so, piracy was insane in that area, because there'd be no selection, games would release late, and they'd be 2x as expensive.

It's not theft. It was thrown away, it belonged to no-one.
Me picking it up however allowed me to understand the music sucked, and so now i know why someone would throw it away. Now that i know this, I wont buy music from that band. If i hadn't known hwo bad they were, i might've bought one of their CD's one day. Hint: that's a potenially lost sale ;)

Nibroc420

Yet they're now in possession of the item. They wouldn't have been, and thus would've been forced to buy the item, if piracy didn't exist.

Sure it was. If you pick up something laying on the ground that doesn't belong to you, it's theft. If you pick up something that's clearly meant to be thrown out(like a couch waiting to be picked up by the garbage truck), it isn't theft.

ID theft does not have to be about taking currency. You can utilize a persons identity to gain fraudulent citizenship in a county, with the full intent of keeping their record clean. No one is being deprived property here.Mafiree

Identity's value come from the fact that it's supposed to be unique and unmistakeable. The very fact that it's a copy makes it theft.

Not so much for piracy.

Your analogy is just a pitiful attempt at arguing semantics.

No, it's not.

nunovlopes

Yes, it is. Obtaining something for free without the seller's consent is wrong. Again, no two ways around that.

And we have another bigotry prize winner here folks.

I wonder how long is it going to take before people like you take your heads out of your asses and start using your own perceptive senses.

N30F3N1X

How am I being a bigot? I'm simply not buying into your disrespectful view of the world.

[QUOTE="Mafiree"] ID theft does not have to be about taking currency. You can utilize a persons identity to gain fraudulent citizenship in a county, with the full intent of keeping their record clean. No one is being deprived property here.N30F3N1X

Identity's value come from the fact that it's supposed to be unique and unmistakeable. The very fact that it's a copy makes it theft.

Not so much for piracy.

Your analogy is just a pitiful attempt at arguing semantics.

[QUOTE="N30F3N1X"]

[QUOTE="Mafiree"] ID theft does not have to be about taking currency. You can utilize a persons identity to gain fraudulent citizenship in a county, with the full intent of keeping their record clean. No one is being deprived property here.Mafiree

Identity's value come from the fact that it's supposed to be unique and unmistakeable. The very fact that it's a copy makes it theft.

Not so much for piracy.

Your analogy is just a pitiful attempt at arguing semantics.

You might have an argument there.....if they were being deprived of their copyright. They are not.

[QUOTE="Mafiree"][QUOTE="N30F3N1X"]

Identity's value come from the fact that it's supposed to be unique and unmistakeable. The very fact that it's a copy makes it theft.

Not so much for piracy.

Your analogy is just a pitiful attempt at arguing semantics.

worlock77

You might have an argument there.....if they were being deprived of their copyright. They are not.

What do real pirates steal?KiIIyou

What do real pirates steal?KiIIyou

Cargo ships.

How am I being a bigot? I'm simply not buying into your disrespectful view of the world.

airshocker

Disrespectful? What the actual f...?

You just said someone who can barely afford to survive should have no right to view content simply because there's a price tag on it, and I'm the one being disrespectful?

Wow...just wow :lol:

Unique and unmistakable...... Kind of like the conditions that producers/publishers show to obtain a copyright.Mafiree

More ****ty analogies? Color me surprised.

You can't go around, commit crimes and let somebody else take all the blame with a copy of a copyright.