World War 3: Poland vs. Russia

[QUOTE="surferdude17"][QUOTE="argetlam00"][QUOTE="surferdude17"][QUOTE="argetlam00"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Chaos_HL21"]

IIf Russia started a war with Poland and the west China wouldn't join the war. China has too many trade agreements with the US and other western nations, and joining the Russian's war would be a major hit to their economy. That is suppose to be a defensive pact, it would only work if Russia was attacked.

argetlam00

Yes, but the world economy would also be in ruins without Russian oil, natural gas, etc. Also if Russia is destroyed (which it enver will be since it would nuke before its destroyed, China has absolutely NO allies). They get along very well with Russia and would probably join if Russia is attacked or needs help. Im just speculating though.

China and Russia are in no way "friends". They were not during the Cold War and they are not now. They have always been extremely competitive and I don't see China rushing to help out Russia. Just think of it this way; if Russia is gone that only leaves two world powers left.

Their relations are quite strong..And how you described China feeling at Russia is exactly how China feels at the United States.

I agree that China sees the US the same way which is why I don't think they would get involved. I mean the Chinese can sit back and let the US and Russia destroy each other.

You are just speculating. I can say the same thing about NATO. They wouldn't want to be destroyed by nukes, so they'll stay out.

All of this is speculation. The truth of the matter is, no one knows what an attack on Poland from Russia can do. I just think China would not want to risk their country and economic ties with the West over Russian aggression.

[QUOTE="argetlam00"]

Yes they are...During the Cold War, only nukes kept the USSR and US from destroying each other. They came severely close to it, even with them.

LJS9502_basic

Exactly. So they were scared of provoking one another. The Korean War would have caused all out war between the USSR and US if it weren't from the threat of nukes. In Afghanistan, US could do nothing more than supply the insurgents, same with USSR in vietnam. Both countries knew they were supplying their enemies but didn't say anything. Both countries signed MAD and struggled as hard as they could to avoid war.

All Russia is trying to do is defend themselves. It's up to the west if they really want that war. Russia is right now making clear it really doesn't want the missile system there, and that it'll go to great lengths to prevent it from being built. I personally don't think it should be built either. This will just mean a new arms race will begin. Next up china is going to build these installations. 11Marcel

Yes, because the Polish have a secret agenda to invade Russia :roll:

Exactly. So they were scared of provoking one another. The Korean War would have caused all out war between the USSR and US if it weren't from the threat of nukes. In Afghanistan, US could do nothing more than supply the insurgents, same with USSR in vietnam. Both countries knew they were supplying their enemies but didn't say anything. Both countries signed MAD and struggled as hard as they could to avoid war.

argetlam00

PS....the bolded doesn't support your argument. It supports mine that both countries know using nukes would be a disaster and for that reason they are not material.

[QUOTE="argetlam00"]

Yes they are...During the Cold War, only nukes kept the USSR and US from destroying each other. They came severely close to it, even with them.

LJS9502_basic

If it were between these two countries Russia would easily win. Wouldn't be a WWIII.North-North

Did you even read my entire post?

Well he does have a point. I recently saw in a documentary that USSR had a plan in the 1980s, in 1985 I think, to launch a nuclear strike on US. :?gs_gear

[QUOTE="argetlam00"]

Exactly. So they were scared of provoking one another. The Korean War would have caused all out war between the USSR and US if it weren't from the threat of nukes. In Afghanistan, US could do nothing more than supply the insurgents, same with USSR in vietnam. Both countries knew they were supplying their enemies but didn't say anything. Both countries signed MAD and struggled as hard as they could to avoid war.

LJS9502_basic

PS....the bolded doesn't support your argument. It supports mine that both countries know using nukes would be a disaster and for that reason they are not material.

How does it support your argument? Using nukes is a disaster because it will cause the death of both countries. That is why the Cold War was so frightening. All it takes is one idiot on the Russian or American side to say "OFF WITH THE NUKES" and we are all dead. Both countries could not risk such a situation. You actually think America or Russia would allow itself to be conquered without a nucleur strike? Your kidding right? The USSR threatened America with nukes many times during the Cold War, same with US threatening Russia. War would have erupted at the Korean War, Suez Crisis and Vietnam. During the Suez Crisis, only the threat of nuclear destruction stopped Britain and France from destroying Egypt. If the Egyptians were attacked by the British/French, war would have begun. Same with vietnam. The USSR protected every communit country, but could not stand against the US invasion for fear of war. They could just bark and complain about human rights while supplying the North Vietnamese.

How does it support your argument? Using nukes is a disaster because it will cause the death of both countries. That is why the Cold War was so frightening. All it takes is one idiot on the Russian or American side to say "OFF WITH THE NUKES" and we are all dead. Both countries could not risk such a situation. You actually think America or Russia would allow itself to be conquered without a nucleur strike? Your kidding right? The USSR threatened America with nukes many times during the Cold War, same with US threatening Russia. War would have erupted at the Korean War, Suez Crisis and Vietnam. During the Suez Crisis, only the threat of nuclear destruction stopped Britain and France from destroying Egypt. If the Egyptians were attacked by the British/French, war would have begun. Same with vietnam. The USSR protected every communit country, but could not stand against the US invasion for fear of war. They could just bark and complain about human rights while supplying the North Vietnamese.

argetlam00

Uh...war did happen in those places.

[QUOTE="argetlam00"]

How does it support your argument? Using nukes is a disaster because it will cause the death of both countries. That is why the Cold War was so frightening. All it takes is one idiot on the Russian or American side to say "OFF WITH THE NUKES" and we are all dead. Both countries could not risk such a situation. You actually think America or Russia would allow itself to be conquered without a nucleur strike? Your kidding right? The USSR threatened America with nukes many times during the Cold War, same with US threatening Russia. War would have erupted at the Korean War, Suez Crisis and Vietnam. During the Suez Crisis, only the threat of nuclear destruction stopped Britain and France from destroying Egypt. If the Egyptians were attacked by the British/French, war would have begun. Same with vietnam. The USSR protected every communit country, but could not stand against the US invasion for fear of war. They could just bark and complain about human rights while supplying the North Vietnamese.

LJS9502_basic

Uh...war did happen in those places.

If they were loosing, they would definately use nukes. It doesn't matter to them that they get destroyed since they would lose the war anyway. Both US and Russia have said that themselves in the Cold War. That they would use nukes to stop the advance of the opposing nation. War did happen in those areas, but not on the scale it could have. The Soviet Union wanted to interfere in Vietnam, but were stopped by the UN and US threats. They also wanted to interfere in the Korean War. If Britain and France attacked Egypt like they were going to, there would have been war as well. Only nukes stopped these conflicts from escalating into complete World War 3.

If they were loosing, they would definately use nukes. It doesn't matter to them that they get destroyed since they would lose the war anyway. Both US and Russia have said that themselves in the Cold War. That they would use nukes to stop the advance of the opposing nation. War did happen in those areas, but not on the scale it could have. The Soviet Union wanted to interfere in Vietnam, but were stopped by the UN and US threats. They also wanted to interfere in the Korean War. If Britain and France attacked Egypt like they were going to, there would have been war as well. Only nukes stopped these conflicts from escalating into complete World War 3.

argetlam00

[QUOTE="argetlam00"]

If they were loosing, they would definately use nukes. It doesn't matter to them that they get destroyed since they would lose the war anyway. Both US and Russia have said that themselves in the Cold War. That they would use nukes to stop the advance of the opposing nation. War did happen in those areas, but not on the scale it could have. The Soviet Union wanted to interfere in Vietnam, but were stopped by the UN and US threats. They also wanted to interfere in the Korean War. If Britain and France attacked Egypt like they were going to, there would have been war as well. Only nukes stopped these conflicts from escalating into complete World War 3.

LJS9502_basic

Yes but the wars that are happening are not the Cold War wars that have occured before. They were pretty much Soviet and US attempts to destroy each others influence (Vietnam, Korea, Afghanistan). If attacks like that came from a non-nucleur power (Egypt attacking US-influenced countries) then there would be some serious ass kicking for Egypt/ if Russia did that, there would just be complaints from the US and pressure to withdraw. The Suez Crisis nearly sparked a World War. It was only the threat of nucleur destruciton from Russia that stopped /BritainFrance from attacking Egypt, like I said many times. Neither Russia or US would take crap from another country, other than themselves. Secretary of Defence Gates even said that the US tries as hard as they can to avoid war with Russia.

America may have allies, but they can turn on them quickly..you think about that. Russia is defending their country and the Georgians started that attack. Now, Poland can easily be conquered by Russia, if Russia wants to do so then let them. U.S. needs to quit involving themselves in all this, because one day it will be too late to regret it. If U.S. creates a war between Russia and themselves, don't expect the rest of Europe to sit there and watch, or at least expect anyone to cheer for you, because they won't. No doubt, more countries have the will to fight, including China, they have a second source of money besides the U.S.

America may have allies, but they can turn on them quickly..you think about that. Russia is defending their country and the Georgians started that attack. Now, Poland can easily be conquered by Russia, if Russia wants to do so then let them. U.S. needs to quit involving themselves in all this, because one day it will be too late to regret it. If U.S. creates a war between Russia and themselves, don't expect the rest of Europe to sit there and watch, or at least expect anyone to cheer for you, because they won't. No doubt, more countries have the will to fight, including China, they have a second source of money besides the U.S.

StealthKing93

[QUOTE="StealthKing93"]

America may have allies, but they can turn on them quickly..you think about that. Russia is defending their country and the Georgians started that attack. Now, Poland can easily be conquered by Russia, if Russia wants to do so then let them. U.S. needs to quit involving themselves in all this, because one day it will be too late to regret it. If U.S. creates a war between Russia and themselves, don't expect the rest of Europe to sit there and watch, or at least expect anyone to cheer for you, because they won't. No doubt, more countries have the will to fight, including China, they have a second source of money besides the U.S.

LJS9502_basic

When they attacked South Ossetia, killed 10 Russian peacekeepers and thousands of Russian citizens. Im not going to argue this case with you, everyone knows this and only you fanatically deny it. Georgia was wrong for using military action against South Ossetia. The US even warned them against it, but they did it anyway. Georgia attacked SOuth Ossetia, despite all Russian warnings and you expect them not to respond???? :lol:

[QUOTE="StealthKing93"]

America may have allies, but they can turn on them quickly..you think about that. Russia is defending their country and the Georgians started that attack. Now, Poland can easily be conquered by Russia, if Russia wants to do so then let them. U.S. needs to quit involving themselves in all this, because one day it will be too late to regret it. If U.S. creates a war between Russia and themselves, don't expect the rest of Europe to sit there and watch, or at least expect anyone to cheer for you, because they won't. No doubt, more countries have the will to fight, including China, they have a second source of money besides the U.S.

LJS9502_basic

Well they did overreact when the South Ossetia sepertists attacked, but South Ossetia wasn't Russia's country, offically it was part of Georiga.

EDIT:

When they attacked South Ossetia, killed 10 Russian peacekeepers and thousands of Russian citizens. Im not going to argue this case with you, everyone knows this and only you fanatically deny it. Georgia was wrong for using military action against South Ossetia. The US even warned them against it, but they did it anyway. Georgia attacked SOuth Ossetia, despite all Russian warnings and you expect them not to respond???? :lol: argetlam00

Do you have any independent sources to back that up, last I remember Human Rights Watch was saying those numbers the Russians was saying was way too high.

If Russia goes and invades Poland, which I dont think will happen at all. All of Europe will be with the U.S. on this whole deal. The whole thing is both nations know that war between the too would be suicide. Not only to themselves but everyone else in this world. I personally believe that Russia since they have start to come back a little bit strong economically and military wise they feel they need to flex some muscle. I just think they are doing at the wrong time and against the wrong people.

My personal opinion is that nothing is going to happen. Russia will get over it and move on. There is just too much at steak for both nations to even bother fighting eachother. The beneifits are small or basically null there is no need to go into war with eachother.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="StealthKing93"]

America may have allies, but they can turn on them quickly..you think about that. Russia is defending their country and the Georgians started that attack. Now, Poland can easily be conquered by Russia, if Russia wants to do so then let them. U.S. needs to quit involving themselves in all this, because one day it will be too late to regret it. If U.S. creates a war between Russia and themselves, don't expect the rest of Europe to sit there and watch, or at least expect anyone to cheer for you, because they won't. No doubt, more countries have the will to fight, including China, they have a second source of money besides the U.S.

Chaos_HL21

Well they did overreact when the South Ossetia sepertists attacked, but South Ossetia wasn't Russia's country, offically it was part of Georiga.

Russia used South Ossetia as a scapegoat for an invasion of Georgia.

Well they did overreact when the South Ossetia sepertists attacked, but South Ossetia wasn't Russia's country, offically it was part of Georiga.

Chaos_HL21

Poland can beat Russia just like they beat the Swedes. Linkwhipassmt

Sweden - Poland

GDP per capita:34 734 - 16,600

unemployment:5% - 15%

Poland sucks donkey balls. In WW2 Poland were one of the few nation to still ride on horses in battle and tell there troops that the Germans did not have to technology to build tanks. And one a the few countries to have been defeated by the Germans in 16 days. Poland is no a military power to count with. Not good place to be either

I can't disagree with this decision when Russian generals threaten Poland. They make it necessary as does the last statement you made. Nukes do need to be neutralized.

LJS9502_basic

And Georgia wasn't the aggressor in the conflict. South Ossetia is part of Georgia soveriegn territory. It all started with a roadside bomb attack, on Aug. 1st, targeting Georgian Policeman. It ramped up from there. It was amazing the Russian army was on the border to resond so quickly to help the South Ossetians.

I don't think 10 Patriot interceptors is going to nuetralize the nuclear armanent of Russia.

[QUOTE="Chaos_HL21"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="StealthKing93"]

America may have allies, but they can turn on them quickly..you think about that. Russia is defending their country and the Georgians started that attack. Now, Poland can easily be conquered by Russia, if Russia wants to do so then let them. U.S. needs to quit involving themselves in all this, because one day it will be too late to regret it. If U.S. creates a war between Russia and themselves, don't expect the rest of Europe to sit there and watch, or at least expect anyone to cheer for you, because they won't. No doubt, more countries have the will to fight, including China, they have a second source of money besides the U.S.

surferdude17

Well they did overreact when the South Ossetia sepertists attacked, but South Ossetia wasn't Russia's country, offically it was part of Georiga.

Russia used South Ossetia as a scapegoat for an invasion of Georgia.

Not at all. If they wanted to conquer Georgia they would have done so by now. They did not advance into Tbilisi and I heard there was a official peace-treaty signed. Russia could easily have destroyed Georgia and the world could have done nothing, but they didn't. Georgia attacked South Ossetia despite warnings from Russia, its completely their fault. They knew what they were getting into and now are in a huge mess because of their mistake.

[QUOTE="whipassmt"]Poland can beat Russia just like they beat the Swedes. LinkTriggerbotSteve

Sweden - Poland

GDP per capita:34 734 - 16,600

unemployment:5% - 15%

Poland sucks donkey balls. In WW2 Poland were one of the few nation to still ride on horses in battle and tell there troops that the Germans did not have to technology to build tanks. And one a the few countries to have been defeated by the Germans in 16 days. Poland is no a military power to count with. Not good place to be either

Yeah Poland charged a Nazi Panzer Divison with horses and rifles. Some of the rifles dated back to the 1800s. This makes everyone want to support Poland for that reason. Russia would easily take over Poland which the US and Europe would try to stop.

Conflict is "settling down" in Georgia since the treaty has been signed, but they aren't the ones we should be watching. I'll give you a short history lesson:

Poland was an ally of France in WWII. Poland gets invaded, France comes to the rescue...France gets steam-rolled and then the U.S. joins in to protect France, our ally. WWII.

Okay. Now, any of you remember that not-very-well publicized event where Poland accepted the U.S. deal of installing an anti-missile system in the region? Well, we're telling everyone that it's because of Iran. Russia is claiming that it's because of their own country. So, if Russia feels threatened by this they could invade Poland (which wouldn't be difficult). The main reason Poland signed this contract is because, as part of the contract, if Poland is ever attacked we MUST come to their aid/rescue/assitance whatever you want to call it. That would mean fighting Russia. That's a possible WWIII.

It sounds unlikely, but all Russia has to do is send troops into Poland. THAT'S IT. Then we're stuck fighting in Iraq, which is sucking up most of our military equipment and funds AND we'd be fighting Russia who is a much more formidable enemy than a few Iraqi's with bombs strapped to their chests. Don't put it past Russia...but I'll let you form your own conclusions.

edgewalker16

Whoa. I had never even heard of this deal with Poland. That blows. Watch us get stuck fighting another war while the politicians sit back and collect oil money.

[QUOTE="surferdude17"][QUOTE="Chaos_HL21"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="StealthKing93"]

America may have allies, but they can turn on them quickly..you think about that. Russia is defending their country and the Georgians started that attack. Now, Poland can easily be conquered by Russia, if Russia wants to do so then let them. U.S. needs to quit involving themselves in all this, because one day it will be too late to regret it. If U.S. creates a war between Russia and themselves, don't expect the rest of Europe to sit there and watch, or at least expect anyone to cheer for you, because they won't. No doubt, more countries have the will to fight, including China, they have a second source of money besides the U.S.

argetlam00

Well they did overreact when the South Ossetia sepertists attacked, but South Ossetia wasn't Russia's country, offically it was part of Georiga.

Russia used South Ossetia as a scapegoat for an invasion of Georgia.

Not at all. If they wanted to conquer Georgia they would have done so by now. They did not advance into Tbilisi and I heard there was a official peace-treaty signed. Russia could easily have destroyed Georgia and the world could have done nothing, but they didn't. Georgia attacked South Ossetia despite warnings from Russia, its completely their fault. They knew what they were getting into and now are in a huge mess because of their mistake.

Georgia has every right to have control of their own territory, not Russia to come in act the way they did.

[QUOTE="surferdude17"]While that is very possible, it is also very unlikely. An invasion of Poland would not only spark a war with the US, but the rest of Europe would also go against Russia. Russia would be greatly outnumbered.argetlam00

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_Cooperation_Organisation

What was that you were saying about "outnumbered"

Hmm. It appears as if we are ****

[QUOTE="edgewalker16"]

Conflict is "settling down" in Georgia since the treaty has been signed, but they aren't the ones we should be watching. I'll give you a short history lesson:

Poland was an ally of France in WWII. Poland gets invaded, France comes to the rescue...France gets steam-rolled and then the U.S. joins in to protect France, our ally. WWII.

Okay. Now, any of you remember that not-very-well publicized event where Poland accepted the U.S. deal of installing an anti-missile system in the region? Well, we're telling everyone that it's because of Iran. Russia is claiming that it's because of their own country. So, if Russia feels threatened by this they could invade Poland (which wouldn't be difficult). The main reason Poland signed this contract is because, as part of the contract, if Poland is ever attacked we MUST come to their aid/rescue/assitance whatever you want to call it. That would mean fighting Russia. That's a possible WWIII.

It sounds unlikely, but all Russia has to do is send troops into Poland. THAT'S IT. Then we're stuck fighting in Iraq, which is sucking up most of our military equipment and funds AND we'd be fighting Russia who is a much more formidable enemy than a few Iraqi's with bombs strapped to their chests. Don't put it past Russia...but I'll let you form your own conclusions.

omfg_its_dally

Whoa. I had never even heard of this deal with Poland. That blows. Watch us get stuck fighting another war while the politicians sit back and collect oil money.

If war ever happened between the U.S. and Russia that would be the last thing politicians would be doing. Trust me.

[QUOTE="omfg_its_dally"][QUOTE="edgewalker16"]

Conflict is "settling down" in Georgia since the treaty has been signed, but they aren't the ones we should be watching. I'll give you a short history lesson:

Poland was an ally of France in WWII. Poland gets invaded, France comes to the rescue...France gets steam-rolled and then the U.S. joins in to protect France, our ally. WWII.

Okay. Now, any of you remember that not-very-well publicized event where Poland accepted the U.S. deal of installing an anti-missile system in the region? Well, we're telling everyone that it's because of Iran. Russia is claiming that it's because of their own country. So, if Russia feels threatened by this they could invade Poland (which wouldn't be difficult). The main reason Poland signed this contract is because, as part of the contract, if Poland is ever attacked we MUST come to their aid/rescue/assitance whatever you want to call it. That would mean fighting Russia. That's a possible WWIII.

It sounds unlikely, but all Russia has to do is send troops into Poland. THAT'S IT. Then we're stuck fighting in Iraq, which is sucking up most of our military equipment and funds AND we'd be fighting Russia who is a much more formidable enemy than a few Iraqi's with bombs strapped to their chests. Don't put it past Russia...but I'll let you form your own conclusions.

xscrapzx

Whoa. I had never even heard of this deal with Poland. That blows. Watch us get stuck fighting another war while the politicians sit back and collect oil money.

If war ever happened between the U.S. and Russia that would be the last thing politicians would be doing. Trust me.

You're right. They'd be grabbing the popcorn.

[QUOTE="argetlam00"][QUOTE="surferdude17"][QUOTE="Chaos_HL21"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="StealthKing93"]

America may have allies, but they can turn on them quickly..you think about that. Russia is defending their country and the Georgians started that attack. Now, Poland can easily be conquered by Russia, if Russia wants to do so then let them. U.S. needs to quit involving themselves in all this, because one day it will be too late to regret it. If U.S. creates a war between Russia and themselves, don't expect the rest of Europe to sit there and watch, or at least expect anyone to cheer for you, because they won't. No doubt, more countries have the will to fight, including China, they have a second source of money besides the U.S.

xscrapzx

Well they did overreact when the South Ossetia sepertists attacked, but South Ossetia wasn't Russia's country, offically it was part of Georiga.

Russia used South Ossetia as a scapegoat for an invasion of Georgia.

Not at all. If they wanted to conquer Georgia they would have done so by now. They did not advance into Tbilisi and I heard there was a official peace-treaty signed. Russia could easily have destroyed Georgia and the world could have done nothing, but they didn't. Georgia attacked South Ossetia despite warnings from Russia, its completely their fault. They knew what they were getting into and now are in a huge mess because of their mistake.

Georgia has every right to have control of their own territory, not Russia to come in act the way they did.

South Ossetia declared indeppendence in 1992, created its own government and its own eleceted leader. It was just not recognized by the UN. Weird huh? How Kosovo is recognized and South Ossetia is not. I wonder why? (Oh yeah, its cause one is US supported and the other isn't) Georgia had also no right to attack its citizens like that. What kind of country starts shelling its own cities and using tanks/soldiers against their own people? The US and Russia both told Georgia to not use military force to resolve the independence dispute. Russia stationed peacekeepers in South Ossetia, so did Georgia. Eventually, Georgia got tired of militant seperatists fireing at their troops and ordered a complete invasion of the region, completely uncaring for civillians in SOuth Ossetia. Georgian peacekeepers shot Russian peacekeepers and killed nearly 2000 civillians, most of which were Russian citizens. You expect Russia to sit and do nothing when Georgia refused to listen to them about not using military force, killed nearly 2000 of their citizens and 10 of their peacekeepers? :lol: Tell me, what would the US do in Russias position? I think you know the answer to that.

South Ossetia declared indeppendence in 1992, created its own government and its own eleceted leader. It was just not recognized by the UN. Weird huh? How Kosovo is recognized and South Ossetia is not. I wonder why? (Oh yeah, its cause one is US supported and the other isn't) Georgia had also no right to attack its citizens like that. What kind of country starts shelling its own cities and using tanks/soldiers against their own people? The US and Russia both told Georgia to not use military force to resolve the independence dispute. Russia stationed peacekeepers in South Ossetia, so did Georgia. Eventually, Georgia got tired of militant seperatists fireing at their troops and ordered a complete invasion of the region, completely uncaring for civillians in SOuth Ossetia. Georgian peacekeepers shot Russian peacekeepers and killed nearly 2000 civillians, most of which were Russian citizens. You expect Russia to sit and do nothing when Georgia refused to listen to them about not using military force, killed nearly 2000 of their citizens and 10 of their peacekeepers? :lol: Tell me, what would the US do in Russias position? I think you know the answer to that.

argetlam00

[QUOTE="argetlam00"]

South Ossetia declared indeppendence in 1992, created its own government and its own eleceted leader. It was just not recognized by the UN. Weird huh? How Kosovo is recognized and South Ossetia is not. I wonder why? (Oh yeah, its cause one is US supported and the other isn't) Georgia had also no right to attack its citizens like that. What kind of country starts shelling its own cities and using tanks/soldiers against their own people? The US and Russia both told Georgia to not use military force to resolve the independence dispute. Russia stationed peacekeepers in South Ossetia, so did Georgia. Eventually, Georgia got tired of militant seperatists fireing at their troops and ordered a complete invasion of the region, completely uncaring for civillians in SOuth Ossetia. Georgian peacekeepers shot Russian peacekeepers and killed nearly 2000 civillians, most of which were Russian citizens. You expect Russia to sit and do nothing when Georgia refused to listen to them about not using military force, killed nearly 2000 of their citizens and 10 of their peacekeepers? :lol: Tell me, what would the US do in Russias position? I think you know the answer to that.

LJS9502_basic

I said it wasn't recognized...but now it will be. Its either gonna be absorbed into Russia or be officially recognized by the UN as independant. THe citizens said they don't care what happens, as long as they aren't part of Georgia. Quite suspicious huh? How Kosovo can be independant and South Ossetia can't :lol:

I said it wasn't recognized...but now it will be. Its either gonna be absorbed into Russia or be officially recognized by the UN as independant. THe citizens said they don't care what happens, as long as they aren't part of Georgia. Quite suspicious huh? How Kosovo can be independant and South Ossetia can't :lol:

argetlam00

[QUOTE="xscrapzx"][QUOTE="argetlam00"][QUOTE="surferdude17"][QUOTE="Chaos_HL21"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="StealthKing93"]

America may have allies, but they can turn on them quickly..you think about that. Russia is defending their country and the Georgians started that attack. Now, Poland can easily be conquered by Russia, if Russia wants to do so then let them. U.S. needs to quit involving themselves in all this, because one day it will be too late to regret it. If U.S. creates a war between Russia and themselves, don't expect the rest of Europe to sit there and watch, or at least expect anyone to cheer for you, because they won't. No doubt, more countries have the will to fight, including China, they have a second source of money besides the U.S.

argetlam00

Well they did overreact when the South Ossetia sepertists attacked, but South Ossetia wasn't Russia's country, offically it was part of Georiga.

Russia used South Ossetia as a scapegoat for an invasion of Georgia.

Not at all. If they wanted to conquer Georgia they would have done so by now. They did not advance into Tbilisi and I heard there was a official peace-treaty signed. Russia could easily have destroyed Georgia and the world could have done nothing, but they didn't. Georgia attacked South Ossetia despite warnings from Russia, its completely their fault. They knew what they were getting into and now are in a huge mess because of their mistake.

Georgia has every right to have control of their own territory, not Russia to come in act the way they did.

South Ossetia declared indeppendence in 1992, created its own government and its own eleceted leader. It was just not recognized by the UN. Weird huh? How Kosovo is recognized and South Ossetia is not. I wonder why? (Oh yeah, its cause one is US supported and the other isn't) Georgia had also no right to attack its citizens like that. What kind of country starts shelling its own cities and using tanks/soldiers against their own people? The US and Russia both told Georgia to not use military force to resolve the independence dispute. Russia stationed peacekeepers in South Ossetia, so did Georgia. Eventually, Georgia got tired of militant seperatists fireing at their troops and ordered a complete invasion of the region, completely uncaring for civillians in SOuth Ossetia. Georgian peacekeepers shot Russian peacekeepers and killed nearly 2000 civillians, most of which were Russian citizens. You expect Russia to sit and do nothing when Georgia refused to listen to them about not using military force, killed nearly 2000 of their citizens and 10 of their peacekeepers? :lol: Tell me, what would the US do in Russias position? I think you know the answer to that.

So Georgia is supposed to sit there and have people continue to do what they want to do? There supposed to sit there and get fired upon and say "OH thats ok, go ahead continue to do so.":| The bottom line is if it was in RUSSIA which it wasn't then I would understand. Russia in my view had no right to do what they did, not saying what Georgia did was right either, but something had to be done to get control of the region and having Russia come in and do what they did made no sense except stir up this big cluster****

[QUOTE="xscrapzx"][QUOTE="omfg_its_dally"][QUOTE="edgewalker16"]

Conflict is "settling down" in Georgia since the treaty has been signed, but they aren't the ones we should be watching. I'll give you a short history lesson:

Poland was an ally of France in WWII. Poland gets invaded, France comes to the rescue...France gets steam-rolled and then the U.S. joins in to protect France, our ally. WWII.

Okay. Now, any of you remember that not-very-well publicized event where Poland accepted the U.S. deal of installing an anti-missile system in the region? Well, we're telling everyone that it's because of Iran. Russia is claiming that it's because of their own country. So, if Russia feels threatened by this they could invade Poland (which wouldn't be difficult). The main reason Poland signed this contract is because, as part of the contract, if Poland is ever attacked we MUST come to their aid/rescue/assitance whatever you want to call it. That would mean fighting Russia. That's a possible WWIII.

It sounds unlikely, but all Russia has to do is send troops into Poland. THAT'S IT. Then we're stuck fighting in Iraq, which is sucking up most of our military equipment and funds AND we'd be fighting Russia who is a much more formidable enemy than a few Iraqi's with bombs strapped to their chests. Don't put it past Russia...but I'll let you form your own conclusions.

omfg_its_dally

Whoa. I had never even heard of this deal with Poland. That blows. Watch us get stuck fighting another war while the politicians sit back and collect oil money.

If war ever happened between the U.S. and Russia that would be the last thing politicians would be doing. Trust me.

You're right. They'd be grabbing the popcorn.

Trust me if you have any clue of what would happen if a war occured, my suggestion to you is find a bomb shelter, because that is exactly where they would be. They would crapping in their pants not eating pop corn.

[QUOTE="argetlam00"][QUOTE="xscrapzx"][QUOTE="argetlam00"][QUOTE="surferdude17"][QUOTE="Chaos_HL21"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="StealthKing93"]

America may have allies, but they can turn on them quickly..you think about that. Russia is defending their country and the Georgians started that attack. Now, Poland can easily be conquered by Russia, if Russia wants to do so then let them. U.S. needs to quit involving themselves in all this, because one day it will be too late to regret it. If U.S. creates a war between Russia and themselves, don't expect the rest of Europe to sit there and watch, or at least expect anyone to cheer for you, because they won't. No doubt, more countries have the will to fight, including China, they have a second source of money besides the U.S.

xscrapzx

Well they did overreact when the South Ossetia sepertists attacked, but South Ossetia wasn't Russia's country, offically it was part of Georiga.

Russia used South Ossetia as a scapegoat for an invasion of Georgia.

Not at all. If they wanted to conquer Georgia they would have done so by now. They did not advance into Tbilisi and I heard there was a official peace-treaty signed. Russia could easily have destroyed Georgia and the world could have done nothing, but they didn't. Georgia attacked South Ossetia despite warnings from Russia, its completely their fault. They knew what they were getting into and now are in a huge mess because of their mistake.

Georgia has every right to have control of their own territory, not Russia to come in act the way they did.

South Ossetia declared indeppendence in 1992, created its own government and its own eleceted leader. It was just not recognized by the UN. Weird huh? How Kosovo is recognized and South Ossetia is not. I wonder why? (Oh yeah, its cause one is US supported and the other isn't) Georgia had also no right to attack its citizens like that. What kind of country starts shelling its own cities and using tanks/soldiers against their own people? The US and Russia both told Georgia to not use military force to resolve the independence dispute. Russia stationed peacekeepers in South Ossetia, so did Georgia. Eventually, Georgia got tired of militant seperatists fireing at their troops and ordered a complete invasion of the region, completely uncaring for civillians in SOuth Ossetia. Georgian peacekeepers shot Russian peacekeepers and killed nearly 2000 civillians, most of which were Russian citizens. You expect Russia to sit and do nothing when Georgia refused to listen to them about not using military force, killed nearly 2000 of their citizens and 10 of their peacekeepers? :lol: Tell me, what would the US do in Russias position? I think you know the answer to that.

So Georgia is supposed to sit there and have people continue to do what they want to do? There supposed to sit there and get fired upon and say "OH thats ok, go ahead continue to do so.":| The bottom line is if it was in RUSSIA which it wasn't then I would understand. Russia in my view had no right to do what they did, not saying what Georgia did was right either, but something had to be done to get control of the region and having Russia come in and do what they did made no sense except stir up this big cluster****

Like I said, Russia saw an opportunity for invasion and took it. Russia has hated Georgia for many years. SInce when does Russia care about civilians being killed.

[QUOTE="argetlam00"][QUOTE="xscrapzx"][QUOTE="argetlam00"][QUOTE="surferdude17"][QUOTE="Chaos_HL21"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="StealthKing93"]

America may have allies, but they can turn on them quickly..you think about that. Russia is defending their country and the Georgians started that attack. Now, Poland can easily be conquered by Russia, if Russia wants to do so then let them. U.S. needs to quit involving themselves in all this, because one day it will be too late to regret it. If U.S. creates a war between Russia and themselves, don't expect the rest of Europe to sit there and watch, or at least expect anyone to cheer for you, because they won't. No doubt, more countries have the will to fight, including China, they have a second source of money besides the U.S.

xscrapzx

Well they did overreact when the South Ossetia sepertists attacked, but South Ossetia wasn't Russia's country, offically it was part of Georiga.

Russia used South Ossetia as a scapegoat for an invasion of Georgia.

Not at all. If they wanted to conquer Georgia they would have done so by now. They did not advance into Tbilisi and I heard there was a official peace-treaty signed. Russia could easily have destroyed Georgia and the world could have done nothing, but they didn't. Georgia attacked South Ossetia despite warnings from Russia, its completely their fault. They knew what they were getting into and now are in a huge mess because of their mistake.

Georgia has every right to have control of their own territory, not Russia to come in act the way they did.

South Ossetia declared indeppendence in 1992, created its own government and its own eleceted leader. It was just not recognized by the UN. Weird huh? How Kosovo is recognized and South Ossetia is not. I wonder why? (Oh yeah, its cause one is US supported and the other isn't) Georgia had also no right to attack its citizens like that. What kind of country starts shelling its own cities and using tanks/soldiers against their own people? The US and Russia both told Georgia to not use military force to resolve the independence dispute. Russia stationed peacekeepers in South Ossetia, so did Georgia. Eventually, Georgia got tired of militant seperatists fireing at their troops and ordered a complete invasion of the region, completely uncaring for civillians in SOuth Ossetia. Georgian peacekeepers shot Russian peacekeepers and killed nearly 2000 civillians, most of which were Russian citizens. You expect Russia to sit and do nothing when Georgia refused to listen to them about not using military force, killed nearly 2000 of their citizens and 10 of their peacekeepers? :lol: Tell me, what would the US do in Russias position? I think you know the answer to that.

So Georgia is supposed to sit there and have people continue to do what they want to do? There supposed to sit there and get fired upon and say "OH thats ok, go ahead continue to do so.":| The bottom line is if it was in RUSSIA which it wasn't then I would understand. Russia in my view had no right to do what they did, not saying what Georgia did was right either, but something had to be done to get control of the region and having Russia come in and do what they did made no sense except stir up this big cluster****

Georgia was asking for it. Georgia should ahve sent their peacekeepers against them, but instead they choose to use bombs and tanks. Tell me, would you start bombing a school if there was a school shooting? Thats how dumb of a decision Georgia made. South Ossetia was under Russian proteciton since over 90% of the civillians have a Russian citizenship and Georgia knew that. They got exactly what was coming to them by killing those civillians and the 10 Russian peacekeepers. The US even agreed with Russia, telling Georgia NOT to attack SOuth Ossetia.

South Ossetia declared indeppendence in 1992, created its own government and its own eleceted leader. It was just not recognized by the UN. Weird huh? How Kosovo is recognized and South Ossetia is not. I wonder why? (Oh yeah, its cause one is US supported and the other isn't) Georgia had also no right to attack its citizens like that. What kind of country starts shelling its own cities and using tanks/soldiers against their own people? The US and Russia both told Georgia to not use military force to resolve the independence dispute. Russia stationed peacekeepers in South Ossetia, so did Georgia. Eventually, Georgia got tired of militant seperatists fireing at their troops and ordered a complete invasion of the region, completely uncaring for civillians in SOuth Ossetia. Georgian peacekeepers shot Russian peacekeepers and killed nearly 2000 civillians, most of which were Russian citizens. You expect Russia to sit and do nothing when Georgia refused to listen to them about not using military force, killed nearly 2000 of their citizens and 10 of their peacekeepers? :lol: Tell me, what would the US do in Russias position? I think you know the answer to that.argetlam00

Only Russia is claiming those numbers Human Right Watch said those numbers are too high and no where near the Russian claims.

Also What Russia is doing now is too much, they seem to be uncaring for Georgain civilians.

[QUOTE="omfg_its_dally"][QUOTE="xscrapzx"][QUOTE="omfg_its_dally"][QUOTE="edgewalker16"]

Conflict is "settling down" in Georgia since the treaty has been signed, but they aren't the ones we should be watching. I'll give you a short history lesson:

Poland was an ally of France in WWII. Poland gets invaded, France comes to the rescue...France gets steam-rolled and then the U.S. joins in to protect France, our ally. WWII.

Okay. Now, any of you remember that not-very-well publicized event where Poland accepted the U.S. deal of installing an anti-missile system in the region? Well, we're telling everyone that it's because of Iran. Russia is claiming that it's because of their own country. So, if Russia feels threatened by this they could invade Poland (which wouldn't be difficult). The main reason Poland signed this contract is because, as part of the contract, if Poland is ever attacked we MUST come to their aid/rescue/assitance whatever you want to call it. That would mean fighting Russia. That's a possible WWIII.

It sounds unlikely, but all Russia has to do is send troops into Poland. THAT'S IT. Then we're stuck fighting in Iraq, which is sucking up most of our military equipment and funds AND we'd be fighting Russia who is a much more formidable enemy than a few Iraqi's with bombs strapped to their chests. Don't put it past Russia...but I'll let you form your own conclusions.

xscrapzx

Whoa. I had never even heard of this deal with Poland. That blows. Watch us get stuck fighting another war while the politicians sit back and collect oil money.

If war ever happened between the U.S. and Russia that would be the last thing politicians would be doing. Trust me.

You're right. They'd be grabbing the popcorn.

Trust me if you have any clue of what would happen if a war occured, my suggestion to you is find a bomb shelter, because that is exactly where they would be. They would crapping in their pants not eating pop corn.

Fine. They'd be eating popcorn and playing Uno in their bomb shelters.:P

[QUOTE="xscrapzx"][QUOTE="argetlam00"][QUOTE="xscrapzx"][QUOTE="argetlam00"][QUOTE="surferdude17"][QUOTE="Chaos_HL21"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="StealthKing93"]

America may have allies, but they can turn on them quickly..you think about that. Russia is defending their country and the Georgians started that attack. Now, Poland can easily be conquered by Russia, if Russia wants to do so then let them. U.S. needs to quit involving themselves in all this, because one day it will be too late to regret it. If U.S. creates a war between Russia and themselves, don't expect the rest of Europe to sit there and watch, or at least expect anyone to cheer for you, because they won't. No doubt, more countries have the will to fight, including China, they have a second source of money besides the U.S.

surferdude17

Well they did overreact when the South Ossetia sepertists attacked, but South Ossetia wasn't Russia's country, offically it was part of Georiga.

Russia used South Ossetia as a scapegoat for an invasion of Georgia.

Not at all. If they wanted to conquer Georgia they would have done so by now. They did not advance into Tbilisi and I heard there was a official peace-treaty signed. Russia could easily have destroyed Georgia and the world could have done nothing, but they didn't. Georgia attacked South Ossetia despite warnings from Russia, its completely their fault. They knew what they were getting into and now are in a huge mess because of their mistake.

Georgia has every right to have control of their own territory, not Russia to come in act the way they did.

South Ossetia declared indeppendence in 1992, created its own government and its own eleceted leader. It was just not recognized by the UN. Weird huh? How Kosovo is recognized and South Ossetia is not. I wonder why? (Oh yeah, its cause one is US supported and the other isn't) Georgia had also no right to attack its citizens like that. What kind of country starts shelling its own cities and using tanks/soldiers against their own people? The US and Russia both told Georgia to not use military force to resolve the independence dispute. Russia stationed peacekeepers in South Ossetia, so did Georgia. Eventually, Georgia got tired of militant seperatists fireing at their troops and ordered a complete invasion of the region, completely uncaring for civillians in SOuth Ossetia. Georgian peacekeepers shot Russian peacekeepers and killed nearly 2000 civillians, most of which were Russian citizens. You expect Russia to sit and do nothing when Georgia refused to listen to them about not using military force, killed nearly 2000 of their citizens and 10 of their peacekeepers? :lol: Tell me, what would the US do in Russias position? I think you know the answer to that.

So Georgia is supposed to sit there and have people continue to do what they want to do? There supposed to sit there and get fired upon and say "OH thats ok, go ahead continue to do so.":| The bottom line is if it was in RUSSIA which it wasn't then I would understand. Russia in my view had no right to do what they did, not saying what Georgia did was right either, but something had to be done to get control of the region and having Russia come in and do what they did made no sense except stir up this big cluster****

Like I said, Russia saw an opportunity for invasion and took it. Russia has hated Georgia for many years. SInce when does Russia care about civilians being killed.

They do now. And Russia gets compeltely nothing from this war while GEorgia gets everything. Think about it. Georgia cannot join NATO while it has territorial problems (South Ossetia). They need to fix that problem to be able to join. Win or lose, the problem is fixed and nothing stops Georgia from joining NATO. If Georgia wins, it pacifies the region and if ti loses, Russia takes control of it.

Wouldn't really be WW3. World War implies more than three countries. Now if other countries come to our defense( very unlikely considering not too many nations support us when it comes to war) and other countries come to Russia's defense then you have yourself a World War.Correyov31

Trust me the last thing that Europe would want is Russia to be doing what it is doing now. If anything Russia at the moment does not have many people taking their side on this situation or any future situation for that matter.

[QUOTE="argetlam00"]South Ossetia declared indeppendence in 1992, created its own government and its own eleceted leader. It was just not recognized by the UN. Weird huh? How Kosovo is recognized and South Ossetia is not. I wonder why? (Oh yeah, its cause one is US supported and the other isn't) Georgia had also no right to attack its citizens like that. What kind of country starts shelling its own cities and using tanks/soldiers against their own people? The US and Russia both told Georgia to not use military force to resolve the independence dispute. Russia stationed peacekeepers in South Ossetia, so did Georgia. Eventually, Georgia got tired of militant seperatists fireing at their troops and ordered a complete invasion of the region, completely uncaring for civillians in SOuth Ossetia. Georgian peacekeepers shot Russian peacekeepers and killed nearly 2000 civillians, most of which were Russian citizens. You expect Russia to sit and do nothing when Georgia refused to listen to them about not using military force, killed nearly 2000 of their citizens and 10 of their peacekeepers? :lol: Tell me, what would the US do in Russias position? I think you know the answer to that.Chaos_HL21

Only Russia is claiming those numbers Human Right Watch said those numbers are too high and no where near the Russian claims.

Also What Russia is doing now is too much, they seem to be uncaring for Georgain civilians.

I completely agree that Russia has gone too far in the war, but they did return Gori to Georgian officials (or try to) and halted before reaching Tbilisi. That means they don't want to destroy Georgia. Anyway, Im not arguing that. Im arguing that it was completely Georgia's fault for starting the war. They were the agressor and knew the consequences of their actions.

georgia has the wests support so does poland. Russia will end up losing in the endfreshgman

But Georgia already lost....And the US refused to send them military aid, only humanitarian aid.

[QUOTE="Chaos_HL21"]

[QUOTE="argetlam00"]South Ossetia declared indeppendence in 1992, created its own government and its own eleceted leader. It was just not recognized by the UN. Weird huh? How Kosovo is recognized and South Ossetia is not. I wonder why? (Oh yeah, its cause one is US supported and the other isn't) Georgia had also no right to attack its citizens like that. What kind of country starts shelling its own cities and using tanks/soldiers against their own people? The US and Russia both told Georgia to not use military force to resolve the independence dispute. Russia stationed peacekeepers in South Ossetia, so did Georgia. Eventually, Georgia got tired of militant seperatists fireing at their troops and ordered a complete invasion of the region, completely uncaring for civillians in SOuth Ossetia. Georgian peacekeepers shot Russian peacekeepers and killed nearly 2000 civillians, most of which were Russian citizens. You expect Russia to sit and do nothing when Georgia refused to listen to them about not using military force, killed nearly 2000 of their citizens and 10 of their peacekeepers? :lol: Tell me, what would the US do in Russias position? I think you know the answer to that.argetlam00

Only Russia is claiming those numbers Human Right Watch said those numbers are too high and no where near the Russian claims.

Also What Russia is doing now is too much, they seem to be uncaring for Georgain civilians.

I completely agree that Russia has gone too far in the war, but they did return Gori to Georgian officials (or try to) and halted before reaching Tbilisi. That means they don't want to destroy Georgia. Anyway, Im not arguing that. Im arguing that it was completely Georgia's fault for starting the war. They were the agressor and knew the consequences of their actions.

They are still in Gori, they haven't withdrawn, and there was anoter group of Russian armor that was moving to the second largest city of Georgia, but now is stopped somewhere on the road to that city

[QUOTE="argetlam00"][QUOTE="Chaos_HL21"]

[QUOTE="argetlam00"]South Ossetia declared indeppendence in 1992, created its own government and its own eleceted leader. It was just not recognized by the UN. Weird huh? How Kosovo is recognized and South Ossetia is not. I wonder why? (Oh yeah, its cause one is US supported and the other isn't) Georgia had also no right to attack its citizens like that. What kind of country starts shelling its own cities and using tanks/soldiers against their own people? The US and Russia both told Georgia to not use military force to resolve the independence dispute. Russia stationed peacekeepers in South Ossetia, so did Georgia. Eventually, Georgia got tired of militant seperatists fireing at their troops and ordered a complete invasion of the region, completely uncaring for civillians in SOuth Ossetia. Georgian peacekeepers shot Russian peacekeepers and killed nearly 2000 civillians, most of which were Russian citizens. You expect Russia to sit and do nothing when Georgia refused to listen to them about not using military force, killed nearly 2000 of their citizens and 10 of their peacekeepers? :lol: Tell me, what would the US do in Russias position? I think you know the answer to that.Chaos_HL21

Only Russia is claiming those numbers Human Right Watch said those numbers are too high and no where near the Russian claims.

Also What Russia is doing now is too much, they seem to be uncaring for Georgain civilians.

I completely agree that Russia has gone too far in the war, but they did return Gori to Georgian officials (or try to) and halted before reaching Tbilisi. That means they don't want to destroy Georgia. Anyway, Im not arguing that. Im arguing that it was completely Georgia's fault for starting the war. They were the agressor and knew the consequences of their actions.

They are still in Gori, they haven't withdrawn, and there was anoter group of Russian armor that was moving to the second largest city of Georgia, but now is stopped somewhere on the road to that city

No, they have handed the city over to Georgia..Here is a link:

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,3563421,00.html

unfortunate for poland that theyre right where everyone wants to take over, and theyre always the center of some war.

poland is such a strategic area.

[QUOTE="Correyov31"]Wouldn't really be WW3. World War implies more than three countries. Now if other countries come to our defense( very unlikely considering not too many nations support us when it comes to war) and other countries come to Russia's defense then you have yourself a World War.xscrapzx

Trust me the last thing that Europe would want is Russia to be doing what it is doing now. If anything Russia at the moment does not have many people taking their side on this situation or any future situation for that matter.

I still don't think that it will result in a WW. Plus if no one is taking Russia's side then they probably will try to de escalate the situation. Although a War of that magnitude would boost the economy. This makes me want to make another thread. Thanks for the idea.