You think this kind of relationship would ever work out??

1. I have mentioned multiple times that the law should remain and that I am not advocating changing the law. Period. :|

2. Um which I never said. From my second or third post with the other guy I said where I drew my conclusions from.

3. You said that its not fair for me to make a conclusive statement where there is none. But I didnt do that. I instead challenged the conclusive statement made by many people: that a 19/21 year old is to be called and treated as a pedophile for dating 15 year old girls.

And like I mentioned before according to where I drew my conclusions from (multiple examples around me) yes it would take a 21-year old person to happen to be in an exception of the rule for it to be called pedophilia.

Teenaged

2. You are avoiding the question then. Your source basically defines pedophilia as involving a child who has NOT got through puberty. There is a range.

3. Legally...he is if he is intimate with her.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="wrfade82"] Your personal experiences, huh? Let's do a case study, rawsavon. Teenaged, would you mind sharing personal experiences with us?LJS9502_basic

I mentioned before that I know of many (when I say many I mean a common occurance around me) instances of 15 year old girls dating 19/21 or even 25 year old men. Their relationships were of course far from fine and I personally would call those girls stupid but there was nothing that reminded pedophilia in any of the cases and the point remains that it is unfair to call people what they are not.

The law WILL remain as it SHOULD but we can tone down this unfair social outrage a bit when it is invalid.

Society should be informed when it is calling people what they are not or when its outrage causes generalisation and the stretching of terms, and like I explained they only do so (using a very negative term) because they want to add force to their disagreement. They can still disagree without being unfair to the people involved.

[QUOTE="dog64"]

And who set the overall standard?

I never said that puberty has changed, but peoples morals have. If a 15 year old had a baby today, what would everyone say? Heck, if a 15 year old had sex today, what would everyone say?

Maybe it is natural for us humans to have babies and have sex at an "early" age? It's just peoples morals today are much higher, for various reasons.

Dystopian-X

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]:roll:

I mentioned before that I know of many (when I say many I mean a common occurance around me) instances of 15 year old girls dating 19/21 or even 25 year old men. Their relationships were of course far from fine and I personally would call those girls stupid but there was nothing that reminded pedophilia in any of the cases and the point remains that it is unfair to call people what they are not.

The law WILL remain as it SHOULD but we can tone down this unfair social outrage a bit when it is invalid.

Teenaged

Society should be informed when it is calling people what they are not or when its outrage causes generalisation and the stretching of terms, and like I explained they only do so (using a very negative term) because they want to add force to their disagreement. They can still disagree without being unfair to the people involved.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

1. I have mentioned multiple times that the law should remain and that I am not advocating changing the law. Period. :|

2. Um which I never said. From my second or third post with the other guy I said where I drew my conclusions from.

3. You said that its not fair for me to make a conclusive statement where there is none. But I didnt do that. I instead challenged the conclusive statement made by many people: that a 19/21 year old is to be called and treated as a pedophile for dating 15 year old girls.

And like I mentioned before according to where I drew my conclusions from (multiple examples around me) yes it would take a 21-year old person to happen to be in an exception of the rule for it to be called pedophilia.

LJS9502_basic

2. You are avoiding the question then. Your source basically defines pedophilia as involving a child who has NOT got through puberty. There is a range.

3. Legally...he is if he is intimate with her.

Accuracy can be achieved legally. It's cut and dried. There is no wiggle roomLJS9502_basic

2. My source was not solely Wikipedia. I said where I drew my conclusions from: the multiple cases I have seen around me. Will you know imply that there is no range in my country?

3. Aaaaaaaaand like I said many times I am not debating the legal definition nor the validity of the law. ;)

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Your culture is different than ours. And society should have outrage where it is necessary.

LJS9502_basic

Society should be informed when it is calling people what they are not or when its outrage causes generalisation and the stretching of terms, and like I explained they only do so (using a very negative term) because they want to add force to their disagreement. They can still disagree without being unfair to the people involved.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Your culture is different than ours. And society should have outrage where it is necessary.

LJS9502_basic

Society should be informed when it is calling people what they are not or when its outrage causes generalisation and the stretching of terms, and like I explained they only do so (using a very negative term) because they want to add force to their disagreement. They can still disagree without being unfair to the people involved.

:roll:

Yeah.........

1. Um you broughtit up when it was irrelevant here:

2. My source was not solely Wikipedia. I said where I drew my conclusions from: the multiple cases I have seen around me. Will you know imply that there is no range in my country?

3. Aaaaaaaaand like I said many times I am not debating the legal definition nor the validity of the law. ;)

Teenaged

2. Anecdotal evidence is not proof.

3. Really? Because you have been doing that with me as number 1 for several posts though I did not ask you opinion on the law.:|

What has changed is the delayed development of kids (not physically)
-we take a long time "growing up" now...unlike the past
= not as mature in our teens as in the past
= support the argument that kids are not ready to be with an adult

Basically we act like kids longer than in the past = not as mature at earlier ages as the past = not ready for things at the same age as the past

rawsavon

Really? What happened to "kids grow so fast today" that I always hear? Many kids today want to grow and be mature at a young age, and some try to act like it. I think kids are too rushed to grow up really.

His culture is so ingrained in his mentality that I don't think he realizes it.wrfade82

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]Really LJS? So different? Can you support that? If anything the Greeks are quite the puritans (on average).

Society should be informed when it is calling people what they are not or when its outrage causes generalisation and the stretching of terms, and like I explained they only do so (using a very negative term) because they want to add force to their disagreement. They can still disagree without being unfair to the people involved.

wrfade82

Reading comprehension anyone?

Didnt I mention posts ago that in my discussion with rawsavon that I aknowledged that in different societies, different conditions are valid perhaps?

Yes I did.

Now there's a difference between arguing that those differences affect common perception and actually debating that those two societies are so far from each other than one cannot possibly try and draw conclusions from either and combine them with a relative ease.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

1. Um you broughtit up when it was irrelevant here:

2. My source was not solely Wikipedia. I said where I drew my conclusions from: the multiple cases I have seen around me. Will you know imply that there is no range in my country?

3. Aaaaaaaaand like I said many times I am not debating the legal definition nor the validity of the law. ;)

LJS9502_basic

2. Anecdotal evidence is not proof.

3. Really? Because you have been doing that with me as number 1 for several posts though I did not ask you opinion on the law.:|

2. Bringing up the exceptions is much less of a proof.

3. I advocated that the law should change? Can you quote a phrase in any of my posts where I said that? I challenge you.

The reason if bringing up the issue of the legal definition is exactly to make clear that I am NOT advocating it should change, which I made abundantly clear in multiple posts.

[QUOTE="rawsavon"]

What has changed is the delayed development of kids (not physically)
-we take a long time "growing up" now...unlike the past
= not as mature in our teens as in the past
= support the argument that kids are not ready to be with an adult

Basically we act like kids longer than in the past = not as mature at earlier ages as the past = not ready for things at the same age as the past

dog64

Really? What happened to "kids grow so fast today" that I always hear? Many kids today want to grow and be mature at a young age, and some try to act like it. I think kids are too rushed to grow up really.

[1. I said pedophilia can be specific? Really? But you did bring up the issue of the legal definition. :|

2. Bringing up the exceptions is much less of a proof.

3. I advocated that the law should change? Can you quote a phrase in any of my posts where I said that? I challenge you.

Teenaged

2. It's not an exception. Puberty is NOT a specific age nor does it ONLY last for one year. It takes a few years.....and it varies by individual. I did post that for you but you have only generalized it as specific. It is not. If one is against pedophlia as a physical/psychological issue than that should be important to note.

3. That is NOT what I said.:roll:

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[1. I said pedophilia can be specific? Really? But you did bring up the issue of the legal definition. :|

2. Bringing up the exceptions is much less of a proof.

3. I advocated that the law should change? Can you quote a phrase in any of my posts where I said that? I challenge you.

LJS9502_basic

2. It's not an exception. Puberty is NOT a specific age nor does it ONLY last for one year. It takes a few years.....and it varies by individual. I did post that for you but you have only generalized it as specific. It is not. If one is against pedophlia as a physical/psychological issue than that should be important to note.

3. That is NOT what I said.:roll:

2. In this range though there are examples you can call "normal" and examples you call "not normal" (not in a negative sense). From the many examples I am aware of ALL of the girls were fully developed. Also you keep missing the point. I am not making a conclusive statement as to which the set age is (which there isnt any) but merely responding to people who themselves make conclusive statements by calling 19/21 year old who date 15 year olds pedophiles, implying that they know that all or most girls in 15 years of age are not developed enough. I never advocated that all the cases are with girls that are developed but merely responding to the generalisation I mentioned above.

3. But you are answering to me as if I am advocating it. Why would you need to clarify that the law cant be changed and that it shouldnt, while I havent even made an implicit or explicit statement about it needing to change? :| And to top that while I have made it clear that I believe the opposite: that it SHOULD NOT change.

[1. Its not irrelevant when there is fear someone might think I am advocating that the law should be altered.

2. In this range though there are examples you can call "normal" and examples you call "not normal" (not in a negative sense). From the many examples I am aware of ALL of the girls were fully developed. Also you keep missing the point. I am not making a conclusive statement as to which the set age is (which there isnt any) but merely responding to people who themselves make conclusive statements by calling 19/21 year old who date 15 year olds pedophiles, implying that they know that girls in 15 years of age are not developed enough. I never advocated that all the cases are with girls that are developed but merely responding to the generalisation I mentioned above.

3. But you are answering to me as if I am advocating it. Why would you need to clarify that the law cant be changed and that it shouldnt, since I havent even made an implicit or explicit statement about it needing to change? :|

Teenaged

2. Average.....not normal and not normal. It's a scale. Thus you can't define pedophlia using your definition by age. It's inaccurate.

3. I'm not interested in if you are advocating it or not. I have NOT had that discussion with you. See #1. *bangs head on desk*

I think it best we stop.

ITT: people defending a pedo.... *slowly backs out*

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[1. Its not irrelevant when there is fear someone might think I am advocating that the law should be altered.

2. In this range though there are examples you can call "normal" and examples you call "not normal" (not in a negative sense). From the many examples I am aware of ALL of the girls were fully developed. Also you keep missing the point. I am not making a conclusive statement as to which the set age is (which there isnt any) but merely responding to people who themselves make conclusive statements by calling 19/21 year old who date 15 year olds pedophiles, implying that they know that girls in 15 years of age are not developed enough. I never advocated that all the cases are with girls that are developed but merely responding to the generalisation I mentioned above.

3. But you are answering to me as if I am advocating it. Why would you need to clarify that the law cant be changed and that it shouldnt, since I havent even made an implicit or explicit statement about it needing to change? :|

LJS9502_basic

2. Average.....not normal and not normal. It's a scale. Thus you can't define pedophlia using your definition by age. It's inaccurate.

3. I'm not interested in if you are advocating it or not. I have NOT had that discussion with you. See #1. *bangs head on desk*

I think it best we stop.

2. You answered to half of my point and thus missing it completely.

3. Yeah ok. I believe you.....

ITT: people defending a pedo.... *slowly backs out*

Espada12

That is if you are talking about me...

legal definition of pedophile. Clinical definition of Pedophile. Age of Consent. Surrogate. It is very healthy for all of you to discuss this topic.

I hung up my guns, more than a few years ago. Here is how a former Lawman defines pedophile ; Mostly men, who have sexual relations with Boys or Girls (no distinction to a pedophile), 12 years of age or younger. A Pedophile will never change, never quit. In the old days this kind of guy was called a Child Molester.

15 years old is too young. Mature looking? possibly. Mature? no. Inappropriate? yes. Romeo and Juliet exception? no, Shakespeare was most likely a perv.

I have 4yr old and 7 yr old Granddaughters. For the next 20 years, or until Marriage at the correct time, Men and Boys will keep their EYES above my girls necklines and their HANDS to themselves. If they cannot, I will REMOVE them.

How do you spell illegal? Oh yeah...Fifteen Years Old

legal definition of pedophile. Clinical definition of Pedophile. Age of Consent. Surrogate. It is very healthy for all of you to discuss this topic.

I hung up my guns, more than a few years ago. Here is how a former Lawman defines pedophile ; Mostly men, who have sexual relations with Boys or Girls (no distinction to a pedophile), 12 years of age or younger. A Pedophile will never change, never quit. In the old days this kind of guy was called a Child Molester.

15 years old is too young. Mature looking? possibly. Mature? no. Inappropriate? yes. Romeo and Juliet exception? no, Shakespeare was most likely a perv.

I have 4yr old and 7 yr old Granddaughters. For the next 20 years, or until Marriage at the correct time, Men and Boys will keep their eyes above my girls necklines and their hands to themselves. If they cannot, I will remove them.

rjxtian

Is the law to change? No. Of course not, because in laws its impossible to have accuracy so its best to cover all possibilities.

Are those relationships healthy? No, but the oldest participants are not to be called pedophiles without knowing if the case justifies this characterisation.

Are we to apply the law in these cases? Yes. Of course, but again the oldest partcipants are not to be called pedophiles just because the legal definition (which cant be accurate) names them as such.

Well, at her age I think she should be able to judge what is right for her and what isn't. Better for her to experience this so she can make better decisions in the future. But depending on what state or country they are in this could be illegal and the guy could do some jail time for this. Not a good decision on the guys side.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="Espada12"]

ITT: people defending a pedo.... *slowly backs out*

wrfade82

That is if you are talking about me...

How am I defending pedophiliacs while I dont think the law should change?

Care to enlighten us?

WOW 14 pages....

But I came back to say that I talked to her this morning, like you guys suggested, and she said that she does not think she wants to be with him. She said that he drives an H2 hummer with loaded chrome, and wont tell her where he gets all this random money, and apparently they had some big fight over that, who knows.

Either way, I was there to be her friend, and thanks so much for giving me/her advice.

Should I report this suspicious dude to the police?

Can I just also add... that I find it very disturbing that there are users here who actually are okay with the idea of a child being in a relationship with an adult. Regardless of consent. I fear for my younger sisters, my younger cousins, and my future daughter. Sick. Just SICK.Sajedene

You're pregnant?

WOW 14 pages....

But I came back to say that I talked to her this morning, like you guys suggested, and she said that she does not think she wants to be with him. She said that he drives an H2 hummer with loaded chrome, and wont tell her where he gets all this random money, and apparently they had some big fight over that, who knows.

Either way, I was there to be her friend, and thanks so much for giving me/her advice.

Should I report this suspicious dude to the police?

THE_BRUTALIZER

Well, if your girlfriend dumped him and the dude leaves her alone, then there is no need, but if he still stalks her or something, then yeah.

[QUOTE="THE_BRUTALIZER"]

WOW 14 pages....

But I came back to say that I talked to her this morning, like you guys suggested, and she said that she does not think she wants to be with him. She said that he drives an H2 hummer with loaded chrome, and wont tell her where he gets all this random money, and apparently they had some big fight over that, who knows.

Either way, I was there to be her friend, and thanks so much for giving me/her advice.

Should I report this suspicious dude to the police?

avatar_genius

Well, if your girlfriend dumped him and the dude leaves her alone, then there is no need, but if he still stalks her or something, then yeah.

[QUOTE="avatar_genius"]

[QUOTE="THE_BRUTALIZER"]

WOW 14 pages....

But I came back to say that I talked to her this morning, like you guys suggested, and she said that she does not think she wants to be with him. She said that he drives an H2 hummer with loaded chrome, and wont tell her where he gets all this random money, and apparently they had some big fight over that, who knows.

Either way, I was there to be her friend, and thanks so much for giving me/her advice.

Should I report this suspicious dude to the police?

THE_BRUTALIZER

Well, if your girlfriend dumped him and the dude leaves her alone, then there is no need, but if he still stalks her or something, then yeah.

Wait, your girlfriend got in a fight with her boyfriend over his SUV?

WOW 14 pages....

But I came back to say that I talked to her this morning, like you guys suggested, and she said that she does not think she wants to be with him. She said that he drives an H2 hummer with loaded chrome, and wont tell her where he gets all this random money, and apparently they had some big fight over that, who knows.

Either way, I was there to be her friend, and thanks so much for giving me/her advice.

Should I report this suspicious dude to the police?

THE_BRUTALIZER

ITT: people defending a pedo.... *slowly backs out*

Espada12

[QUOTE="THE_BRUTALIZER"][QUOTE="avatar_genius"]

Well, if your girlfriend dumped him and the dude leaves her alone, then there is no need, but if he still stalks her or something, then yeah.

avatar_genius

Wait, your girlfriend got in a fight with her boyfriend over his SUV?

[QUOTE="Espada12"]

ITT: people defending a pedo.... *slowly backs out*

RichardStallman

ITT: RichardStallman is correct.

Is she your girlfriend now that she broke up with her boyfriend?avatar_genius

[QUOTE="avatar_genius"]Is she your girlfriend now that she broke up with her boyfriend?THE_BRUTALIZER

[QUOTE="rawsavon"]NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Any college guy that would date a 15 year old little kid is a total loser and pedophile. If I were you, I would strongly consider reporting this. Sick. just sickavatar_genius

They aren't a pedophile. Pedophiles go after younger people, not 15-year olds.

WOW 14 pages....

But I came back to say that I talked to her this morning, like you guys suggested, and she said that she does not think she wants to be with him. She said that he drives an H2 hummer with loaded chrome, and wont tell her where he gets all this random money, and apparently they had some big fight over that, who knows.

Either way, I was there to be her friend, and thanks so much for giving me/her advice.

Should I report this suspicious dude to the police?

THE_BRUTALIZER

Ah as usual. Nice to see the follow up to what happened. So much for love under these circumstances and whatever else some were advocating in favor huh?

My girl left me for an older guy. Its going on 2 weeks now........ yep.

There's a relationship I'd enjoy while it lasts. Who cares if it works out ;)