Are games purely entertainment, or are they becoming propaganda entertainment?

indeed propaganda is rife in video games, just look at america's army,, that game is deisigned to be a propaganda instrument,,profanityVP

Wait just a minute, dog. AA is a KNOWN MILITARY RECRUITMENT TOOL. The Army testified publicly that it's purpose is to drum up support for the Army and enlist new recruits...

That's NOT secret propaganda, that's perfectly acceptable activism. When any government or NGO agency pushes ANYTHING it can be interpreted as propaganda, but let's be clear to distinuigh ill-motivated, secretive forms of propaganda from clear "advertisements".

The US government and any other governments are nothing but tools also. When I say higher ups I mean the people/families that truely rule this planet. You might not believe that but two families own 80% of the world wealth and its these people who are in control of the propaganda that goes on in entertainment. The government is nothing but a tool to get pass you.J-REAL

lol - now you sound like my European immigrant family members who escaped communism in Eastern Europe to live in the greatest country on Earth... they always go for the conspiracy's too.

Also, play less Deus Ex - it may be rotting your brain ;)

You can't say that Tetris or Mario bros was propaganda, but Call of Duty Modern WarFare, even Crysis (which will pit you against North Koreans as well as aliens) seem too much to be heading towards a propaganda tool to make us desensitized to killing our political enemies. Would it be OK, or would you buy the new games from Iran or from Lebanon that has you killing American and Isreali soldiers? What are your thoughts on that?

serieus

There is no propaganda in these games. The developer does not teach any belief system of one side or the other. There is a antagonist and protagonist. Pick your side, hate both, maybe even do not buy the game ? Then you can say you helped stop the propaganda.

Maybe it just upsets you becasue the developers did not let you kill white people from germany ? Or white people from Russia, or white people from N.A, Britian... Or Italians, Japanese, chinese.. or the S.A. Drug lord...

Can I declare propaganda against white skined people of western ideology ? Maybe even hate speach eh.

just take a look at some of the comments,, people are calling north koreans bad profanityVP

N. Korea is an aggressive military dictatorship - they ARE bad. They sell nuclear weapons technology on the black market. They invaded S. Korea and tried to conquer the nation to rule it themselves. They regularly lob missles at Japan to scare the $hit out the Japanese. They allowed MILLIONS OF THEIR OWN CIVILIANS TO STARVE TO DEATH so the government could pretend it was self-sufficient (all while secretly receiving enough food aid to feed its army from shady S. Koreans).

Open your eyes. Your knee-jerk assumption that the N. Koreans aren't the bad guys simply because Great Satan says they are is lowsy and immature.

It wont stop me from playing games but I do know whats going on. And does it matter to me yes because I want everyone to know whats going on thats the only way we can change things in the world if people were to wake up and open there eyes.J-REAL

??? So you are giving money to the Evil Elites that run the universe? Then you are as guilty as they are!!! TO THE WALL.

[QUOTE="J-REAL"][QUOTE="gbarules2999"][QUOTE="J-REAL"][QUOTE="gbarules2999"]

Time for a brain fart.

So, games like Call of Duty are propoganda, in which that they glorify certain aspects of the army, as killing terrorists. But what I have to ask is this: is it intentional propoganda? I mean, sure, you have America's Army which is built for such things to the core, but did CoD's developers say to themselves "let's make a game where the army are looked at with very pretty glasses" and make it a game? No, they went where two things are.

First, the trends. The money, where it is proven that when you shoot terrorists in some form, people will buy your game. It's a very taboo subject that will eventually move on once we get into aonther sort of confict. People want to pretend that they know and support what's happening in Iraq or whatever, when most of us don't have a clue; the games take advantage of that, and that's where the market is now (love it or hate it).

Second, the fact of the confict. The concept of a video game is appropriating conficts and letting the player get through them. Well, we have a very real confilct happening over seas right now, and so when the real life events match what a video game is in concept then why not make it based on that? It simply works, as we all know: WWII shooters are undeniably video games, and so are modern day shooters. Developers go for the easy targets, because, well, they're easy.

I know that when I fire up America's Army, I will be confronted with suggestions. Nothing stright out, but pointers that make me morally think that the Army is the right place to be. But when I fire up CoD or GRAW, those games don't have that much of that kind of thing, because it wasn't in the design documents. It simply doesn't affect the way I see life or the army or whatever, and none of it will make up my mind for me.

It'd be foolish to write it off completely, but in the end it's all fun and games, literally.

profanityVP

Your right it is all fun and games and that is good none of it will make up your mind. =)

Like I said in a past post the developers dont know what they do they are in it for the money but the people who are truely over this industry will not back certain games. Yes people will say because those games would not sell which is true, but its mainly becuase of the back lash a company will get becuase that company is going agaisnt the grain. The higher ups wants everyone to go with the grain its not about money for these people. These people print money so why it they be in it for the money. Like I said its way bigger than money for them.

The higher ups? What?

So you're saying that the US Governement is forcing Activision to make Call of Duty a propoganda machine? Is that it? Or is the Government behind the scheme to make the market like these types of games...what?

I think that intelligence osmosis is coming into affect, so I better stop trying to understand this post...it makes less and less sense the more I read it...

LoL!

The US government and any other governments are nothing but tools also. When I say higher ups I mean the people/families that truely rule this planet. You might not believe that but two families own 80% of the world wealth and its these people who are in control of the propaganda that goes on in entertainment. The government is nothing but a tool to get pass you.

its not that game developers intentionally make propaganda tools, its just that, that is where the profit is,, and its established like that, because the higher powers want our state to be as it is,,

say for example rothschild,, that family can manipulate you guys to think and feel exactly how they want you to,,

they started the feminist movement, the gay rights movement, and so forth,, they put morals into your heads, so u think that so and so are bad ,, and you guys are good people,,,,

but yeah its not a structured system where activision wanted to make proganda games, its just that the powers can manipulate circumstances for their advantage,,,

100% agreed

[QUOTE="J-REAL"][QUOTE="Jack_Summersby"][QUOTE="J-REAL"]

And where did you get your info from? None of us even knew Kim Jong even exsisted until his government was name apart of the Axis of Evil.

Jack_Summersby

That's your fault for being poorly educated. I and many others have been aware of Il for a long, long time. 13 years ago I started reading the daily papers, and yes, even then, N. Korea was on our radar. Hell, didn't you study the Korean War in school?

Its not that im prooly educated, and that wasnt the point. Most of the world didnt know about N.K but after they became part of the axis of evil everybody knows about them. Now N.K. will be the battlefield for movies and games. Right now its the Middle East they protray as evil and now it will be N.K. after N.k. it will be China.

By the way whats up with the insults. This is only conversation. Have you been to N.K.? Like you said you been reading daily papers. Have you read China newspapers and what they have to say about N.K.? I bet they will paint a different pic of N.k. than the papers you are reading.

Of course the Chinese newspapers will paint a different version of N. Korea than liberal US newspapers - China is a communist dictatorship with a state news agency that tows the party line. If a Chinese journalist prints something against that party line, he or she is jailed, beaten, and or killed.

As for being insulting, I apologize for saying it like that.

But so you know, N. Korea is a well known pariah and has been for 50 years. The only people that N. Korea is "new" to are young people, but they'll learn in school.

Finally, don't make the mistake that because the quote "History is written by the victors" has some truth to it, that any time the US wins a war (or ties) that we are only exposed to propganda and lies.

In the US it is very easy to get alternative points of view. Many papers, including prominent ones like the NY Times, were AGAINST the war in Iraq, and are AGAINST war with N. Korea, so you should NOT lie to yourself and others and pretend that US citizens are only getting half the story on N. Korea.

N. Korea is one of the worst police states in modern history, and they threaten the S. Korea, Japan, and the US on a daily basis.

Trust me im not saying that N.K. is not doing all that I agree with you. Only thing Im really saying is our government(which is controled to higher elite families) are doing the samething that Kim is doing so to put N.K. on the world stage like they did there must be a agenda about not just well he is making 2 nuke warheads when we have 20,000.

[QUOTE="J-REAL"]The US government and any other governments are nothing but tools also. When I say higher ups I mean the people/families that truely rule this planet. You might not believe that but two families own 80% of the world wealth and its these people who are in control of the propaganda that goes on in entertainment. The government is nothing but a tool to get pass you.Jack_Summersby

lol - now you sound like my European immigrant family members who escaped communism in Eastern Europe to live in the greatest country on Earth... they always go for the conspiracy's too.

Also, play less Deus Ex - it may be rotting your brain ;)

Alot of people know this fact in the States you have dig for that but in alot of European countries they are taught that in colleges.

[QUOTE="profanityVP"]just take a look at some of the comments,, people are calling north koreans bad Jack_Summersby

N. Korea is an aggressive military dictatorship - they ARE bad. They sell nuclear weapons technology on the black market. They invaded S. Korea and tried to conquer the nation to rule it themselves. They regularly lob missles at Japan to scare the $hit out the Japanese. They allowed MILLIONS OF THEIR OWN CIVILIANS TO STARVE TO DEATH so the government could pretend it was self-sufficient (all while secretly receiving enough food aid to feed its army from shady S. Koreans).

Open your eyes. Your knee-jerk assumption that the N. Koreans aren't the bad guys simply because Great Satan says they are is lowsy and immature.

We the USA sale nukes and bio weapons to =/. Do you know that? lol! You see this is were progaganda comes in to play lol! You were told that by US news agencies and now you believe that lol! Prefect example. How is N.K selling nuclear weapon technology when Nato said they might be a few years away from making a bomb =/. I mean if thats true which I dont believe then how are they selling this technology when it hasnt proven that it works. Sometimes you have to sit back and use your brain and say well that doesnt make sense.

[QUOTE="J-REAL"]It wont stop me from playing games but I do know whats going on. And does it matter to me yes because I want everyone to know whats going on thats the only way we can change things in the world if people were to wake up and open there eyes.Jack_Summersby

??? So you are giving money to the Evil Elites that run the universe? Then you are as guilty as they are!!! TO THE WALL.

Thats the system they set up. Its called slavery. We now depend on this system now and its to late to go back really. When you go out and feed yourself you are supporting them, put gas in your car, talk on the phone. Almost everthing you do in your life its supporting them.

LoL!

The US government and any other governments are nothing but tools also. When I say higher ups I mean the people/families that truely rule this planet. You might not believe that but two families own 80% of the world wealth and its these people who are in control of the propaganda that goes on in entertainment. The government is nothing but a tool to get pass you.

J-REAL

What? Honest to god, what?

There's a thing, and it's called common sense. Oh, and proof, too, don't forget that. This thread is being crusted over with whatever you're shoveling...

And what's the motive behind this, hmm? So we have COD that is outright army happy, and you have, what, the bad guys are terrorists, and why, because these families own everything and want this to be so?

Give me a break.

Back to the propoganda point, I still firmly believe if there is a message, it's not intentional, and it's just where the market is these days.

[QUOTE="J-REAL"]

LoL!

The US government and any other governments are nothing but tools also. When I say higher ups I mean the people/families that truely rule this planet. You might not believe that but two families own 80% of the world wealth and its these people who are in control of the propaganda that goes on in entertainment. The government is nothing but a tool to get pass you.

gbarules2999

What? Honest to god, what?

There's a thing, and it's called common sense. Oh, and proof, too, don't forget that. This thread is being crusted over with whatever you're shoveling...

And what's the motive behind this, hmm? So we have COD that is outright army happy, and you have, what, the bad guys are terrorists, and why, because these families own everything and want this to be so?

Give me a break.

Back to the propoganda point, I still firmly believe if there is a message, it's not intentional, and it's just where the market is these days.

You're right two families running everything is ridiculous. Everyone know that the Patriots run everything. Although really the patriots are just a consciousness that has somehow spawned itself in the white house, or maybe a computer program that the real patriots who died long ago left. Maybe a robot that has the minds of the old patriot leaders programmed into it? It could be possible that our entire existence is actually an elaborate VR training system where the Patriots are trying to get us ready for the coming war. ..... George Sears for president!

Games, like any other medium, are a conduit for reflecting topical concerns and the perceptions of people in current times. During World War 2 the Germanswere perceived by many as 'the bad guys', so it was hardly surprising that books, movies and now games cast them in that light in media centred around World War 2. Fast forward to current times and the news is full of references to troubles in the Middle East (including Iraq and Afghanistan), and problems regarding North Korea.

Just as movies were made during World War II with people fighting the Nazis...now games are produced where we fight perceived modern enemies. In a way they could be viewed as mild propaganda, but only insofar as they point the finger at a particular nation or group of people and label them as 'bad guys'. If the people playing the games only have two brain cells to rub together and choose toignore the wider context of current conflicts and tensions around the globe, and simply accept what is portrayed in a game (or any other entertainment medium) as fact, then they are obviously incredibly misguided.

I view games as entertainment, but I can understand some of the concerns of certain games being perceived as a form of propaganda, even if they have not been deliberately produced as propaganda vehicles. I've seen some pretty ignorant posts made about games like Call Of Duty 4 where people think it's based on fact and they want to "...play the Marines to kick terrorist ass" etc. The nature of some of those posts indicate at least some of these people have difficultyseparating a game from reality, and are either unwilling or unable to view a game purely as entertainment. In a way, you could argue that some gamers themselves are trying to turn games into their own form of propaganda to fuel misguided notions (based on game content), thus exhibiting a rather insular and prejudiced view of the world and its affairs.

By the same token we've seen various ethnic groups, and nations such as North Korea decrying their depictions in video games, and holding them up as perceived propaganda vehicles of 'The West'. The simple fact is that anything can be twisted and spun so that it is cast in a negative light - just as violent video games have become the whipping boy of popular press and misguided politicians.If they were to be believed then games are the root of all evil in society today. That obviously is not the case, because people have been killing other people for time immemorial. It's the nature of the beast within us all.

So yes, games can be used in terms of propaganda from both sides, but usually only by people outside of the game development process to meet their own skewed view of the world.

RobertBowen

I love small fonts! They make my head feel funny!

We the USA sale nukes and bio weapons to =/. Do you know that? lol! You see this is were progaganda comes in to play lol! You were told that by US news agencies and now you believe that lol! Prefect example. How is N.K selling nuclear weapon technology when Nato said they might be a few years away from making a bomb =/. I mean if thats true which I dont believe then how are they selling this technology when it hasnt proven that it works. Sometimes you have to sit back and use your brain and say well that doesnt make sense.

J-REAL

We equip our Allies with modern weapons - taht I agree with. We sometimes equip are enements - e.g. the Saudis - that I reject.

Here's the thing, THE US MEDIA REPORTS ALL OF THIS!!!

It's no government secret, as much as you wish it were one. I am well aware of our weapons sales - the good, the bad, the ugly... it all gets exposed in the USA because our media IS FREE.

[QUOTE="Jack_Summersby"]

[QUOTE="J-REAL"]It wont stop me from playing games but I do know whats going on. And does it matter to me yes because I want everyone to know whats going on thats the only way we can change things in the world if people were to wake up and open there eyes.J-REAL

??? So you are giving money to the Evil Elites that run the universe? Then you are as guilty as they are!!! TO THE WALL.

Thats the system they set up. Its called slavery. We now depend on this system now and its to late to go back really. When you go out and feed yourself you are supporting them, put gas in your car, talk on the phone. Almost everthing you do in your life its supporting them.

Wait a minute, dog. I am not the one saying they are our enemies - YOU ARE. So YOU should not support them. IT IS FAR WORSE TO KNOWINGLY DO WRONG (that's you) then to accidently/ignorantly do wrong (that's me, if your theories are correct). So who's worse? YOU.

The Illuminati do exist, and the focal point in their grand scheme to take over the world is... sneaking propoganda into video games? Man, conspiracy theories have really gone downhill lately.

Ooh, I've got one! The Knight's Templar has been secretly printing subliminal messages in game manuals, telling gamers to ignore the fact that there are PDF manuals available! Gamers continue demanding manuals, keeping paper costs up and therefore keeping the Paper Plutocracy in Power!

Here, I've got something that doesn't add up in your theory: If these "elites" are planting pro-American propoganda in games, and propoganda is most effective when one is exposed to it at an early age, why is there so much pressure from the American government (which you claimis also controlled by the "elites") to keep these very games out of the hands of children? Wouldn't that mean that these "elites" are actively working against themselves? isn't that just a wee bit counter-intuitive?

The Illuminati do exist, and the focal point in their grand scheme to take over the world is... sneaking propoganda into video games? Man, conspiracy theories have really gone downhill lately.

Ooh, I've got one! The Knight's Templar has been secretly printing subliminal messages in game manuals, telling gamers to ignore the fact that there are PDF manuals available! Gamers continue demanding manuals, keeping paper costs up and therefore keeping the Paper Plutocracy in Power!

Here, I've got something that doesn't add up in your theory: If these "elites" are planting pro-American propoganda in games, and propoganda is most effective when one is exposed to it at an early age, why is there so much pressure from the American government (which you claimis also controlled by the "elites") to keep these very games out of the hands of children? Wouldn't that mean that these "elites" are actively working against themselves? isn't that just a wee bit counter-intuitive?

Mediocre_man90

The All Seeing Eye is on the back of the 1$ bill...

Of course if I were to analyse the Golden Dawn.. I would basically could say that the US was founded by Gnostic psuedo-christians..with a bent on rabbinic judaism.. of course, Aliester Crowley as well as William B Yeats were members of the Golden Dawn.. Crowley being blacklabled as being "satanic" and writing the occultish book "The book of Lies". and Yeats.. well if you read A Vision.. you will see astrology is heavily used and used to predict the future through math.. this basically is like the movie Pi.. which I loved.. but nevertheless most people would never watch that sort of thing and enjoy it..

I think I will go reread a few gnostic texts.. and curse Constantine..

well to sum this up in a nut shell its really rather simple. for propiganda to be of any use that means that all forms of information must be regulated by the orginazation attempting to controll opinions. the KGB, the Gestapo, the Chineese government, the other various 'police states' both current and historical have known this.

the fact that video games can be looked on as some form of propiganda is far and away overshadowed by the simple reality that in the west information isnt controlled by any single orginazation. and to make this blunt and simple for those that are spouting this theory that some 'over family' is controlling the fate of the west via video game subversion ill simply point this out.

if there IS some big'over family' attempting to controll our hearts and minds, its not working very well. we have been flooded about the 'dangers' of the middle east for atleast the last25 years or so, LONGER if you include all the coverage of the arab israelie wars and yet the vast majority of Americans think we need to pull out of Iraq soonest , and furthermore that it was a huge mistake to 'go in' to begine with (though hind sight is allways 20/20). if on the other hand we WERE subject to propiganda we would have simply crushed the nation and won the war even if the cost was we had to kill ever person in the nation to 'pacify' it.

im reminded of the old 'from a certian point of view' quote. ANYTHING can be concidered propiganda from a 'certian point of view'. im quite sure that the Devil was wispering in Eve's ear that God had brain washed her and Adam about the tree of good and evil, and from his point of view he was right, but look at the results.

at the end of the day all information you ingest can be conciderd propiganda of one form or another. the key is to look to the motivations of the source of that information. there is no motivation besides money for video game makers to choose a given set of 'villians' and the person that pointed out that North Korea was only chosen because of Bushes 'axis of evil' comments made that casefor us, should you accept his point of view. if his statment were in fact true then it would mean that the game makers looked at the real world, decided that people were going to hate North Koreaallready because of Bush and then decided to give them a target for that hate in the forum of a video game villian, WHY? because people allready hate North Korea and would be willing to spend cash to kill them in the virtual world,but they didnt choose those 'villans' because of some political agenda on their own part. im quite sure that the company that made the game doesnt give a rats a$$ if his villans are Koreans, Nazies, orc's, or bigs from outer spaceas long as his game sells a bazillion copys.

ill end by saying this. if your stupid enought to actualy be brain washed by a video game, chances are your too stupid to even start a computer in the first place. to say nothing about being smart enough to actualy play the game so i wont loose any sleap overthis issue any time soon.

Great post!

I personally think there is some form of properganda but not necessarily in the strictest military sense. The truth is if iraq was buying games by the droves and makeing software companies lots of money then i am sure you would get lots of games on how to blow up isrealis. Of course providing America didn't poke its nose in every 5 minutes.

But as they don't and as America, Japan, and Europe create the biggest revenue then its inevitable that game makers look to their own political stance. Take into consideration that 2 of those areas are so politically correct its worrying.

Important to note that Many of those ethnic groups are game makers too which is probably why endless WW2 games keep appearing And then they clench their teeth at another Mexican/terrorist game just because it sells, which tells you the state of society, or does it??

Although it might not be influenced by the government its still could be looked at as properganda, but this time its propelled by another source.. But for what end??? Money!!

Bottomline is what sells......I feel sorry for the Aliens we constantly kill in games.

Remember games like "10 most wanted"???

And American Army games??? And thats not properganda??? Both are **** of course but someone buys them. Is it YOU!!!!

Crazyness on this thread, people are getting heated.

On one hand, enjoy what you can, we all only get to live once, so play what you want, as long as it's in the name of entertainment. I just wish that games would be more creative and create their own scenarios and political issues rather than base it on the current ones or ones of the past since both the past present and future perspective is solely based on a biased opinion. Game companies like those making RTS should teach a lesson to those making other types of games and show them that playing both sides of the field can be advantageous to the players enriching both the gameplay, replayability, and the abilitiy to let the user choose how and who to play in the game. (Red Alert comes to mind). I wish they would create fictitious worlds like Asimov and Clark did for their Sci-Fi books and quit making sequels and create new stories. NOthing new is written these days just repitition of current events, past conflicts, or sequels to an original story that kills the original story, or.... no story at all.

It's obvious that propaganda is not what developers are looking to create when making games, but following a western opinion is, since the western world is the most likely to purchase these games to make big sales and possibly top the charts. It is not the developers that are the ones committing any crime of creating propaganda, they are just making money, but off an idea that helps out the western propaganda to hate a specific enemy and be desensitized to killing that enemy. This allows us to not give a hoot when abomb explodes in Iraq and 200 people die, but we cry and talk about the shoot out in a college campus thousands of miles from us in which possibly none of us knew any of the victims. (the difference is we are desensitized to not care about our "enemies".

The internet takes care of this propaganda I think, because on the internet I can find Iran's or Hezbollah's FPS game, but on the store shelves is where I won't find it at all, because that is under strict control by our government, even for games that are rated M or higher (if there is a higher). At store shelves we are only given a slim choice of what is really out there. Store shelves won't offer indie games either, because they are not what will bring in the dough for those stores.

The difference between Iran's and Hezbollah's FPS game is not different than America's Army all of those and any games like those WERE created with the idea of endoctrinating our minds, but the rest are just companies trying to make a buck, to which i give no negative feedback to, cause we all need to survive somehow.

Games are games and the majority of people even on this thread can play a game, put it down and never feel any change because of this game, but there are some that can easily be manipulated and they shouldn't ruin it for everyone, but I do believe that certain subliminal messages can change people even those who think they have more brain power than that. I mean take a look at the hate for the french. They say no to going to Iraq (which we now know was under false pretenses to go to war with them) and we changed french fries to freedom fries, i still see bumper stickers that say boycott France, and my french neighbor got a hate letter telling her to go back to france, and the Army teaches now that france is the biggest coward for not going to war and for letting germany take them over.

Propaganda works, and it works cause a lot of people are weak-minded when it comes to entertainment. You may think there is no propaganda at work in these games (though unintentional from the companies, but still a choice they made), but we are being desensitized as we speak.

"The internet takes care of this propaganda I think, because on the internet I can find Iran's or Hezbollah's FPS game, but on the store shelves is where I won't find it at all, because that is under strict control by our government, even for games that are rated M or higher (if there is a higher). '

WRONG! It's because the hezbollah game does not have a US publisher...NOTHING to do with the goverment. And the descision to carry the game is a business descision. Obviously there isn't a US publisher in the world who would carry such a game. Common sense here dude.

"The difference between Iran's and Hezbollah's FPS game is not different than America's Army all of those and any games like those WERE created with the idea of endoctrinating our minds, but the rest are just companies trying to make a buck, to which i give no negative feedback to, cause we all need to survive somehow."

HUGE difference bud. The hezbollah game is waaay more extreme. It not only tries to garner support, but ALSO tries to get you to HATE israelies and Americans. It has extreme rhetoric in the game, where as the Americas Army game is more subtle (yes you kill terrorist, but they are nameless and make believe). Huge difference.

"You may think there is no propaganda at work in these games (though unintentional from the companies, but still a choice they made)"

Then it's not propaganda. It's localisation and capitalism. Big difference.

beingdesensitized is one thing, thats the normal human condition, but to use a specific word like propiganda is something else again. calling it propiganda is flat out saying that video game makers or "over familys' are creating games that target specific segments of humanity on purpose and with some goal in mind. clearly this isnt the case.

one thing id like to point out that is extreamly relivent to this topic is this. in order to judge our system of information exchange you need to have actualy lived under other systems. you cant say with a snear and a grunt that we are part of some huge plot for an over family to take over the world when you havent experianced TRUE propiganda. using china as an example, google is forced to submit to any whim of the chineese government up to and including producing 'private' records about individuals that have attempted to access what the chineese government deems ilegal just to be able to do business in china. immagin for a moment, your living in America (or any other 'western' nation) and one day there is police beating down your door with an arrest warrent for you because you searched for information on google about the history of tibet, or American Indians, or the Boors of south Africa, or any other aspect of your nations history that isnt good.

games arent propiganda, they are simply a reflection of our culture as a whole. and outside of C&C generals i havent yet run into a game, well a popular game anyhow, that ive felt was over the top in presenting a pro american/west slant on things. in fact one of the most popular game seriesof all time, the Grand theft auto series presents a picture of America that is ANYTHING but flattering. but i will say that C&C generals struck me as a blatiant peace of propiganda trash in many reguards. but take heart that it DOES stand out to so many people as propiganda. its the exception that proves the rule. people see it for what it is. i susspect that the developers were trying for humor but it had the fortunate (or unfortunate) luck to be shiped about the same time as 9/11 and what would be conciderd a touch of toung in cheek (and bad taste)humor pre 9/11 was shifted into appearing as spitefull pro American propiganda in the aftermath. but it really stands out as such and is more a case of bad taste than anything even approaching propiganda.

there is such a thing as right and wrong. and i think its time we in the 'west' started standing up for that concept again. some time in the last 60 years or so we seem to have lost the will to stand up and say so. we spend so much time debating about not alienating this or that culture that we cant even seem to agree on our own anymore. we even go so far as to question our games in reguards as to how they may or may not be propiganda or offend people that dont share our views on the world anyhow. i guess what im really saying in a nut shell is that of all the things that shape MY world view , video games dont even reach the bottom of the list. and i would certianly say im a pretty "hard core" gamer. i dont hate terrorists because of a game i hate them becausethey kill innocent people, im not leary of North Korea because of a video game, im leary of them because they have a million man army poised to restart a war that was never actualy finished 50 years ago and they arethe ones that started it. im not wary of China or Russia because of a video game, im wary of them because of 60+ years of cold war brinkmanship that still continues today, what with the buildup of the PRCs navy and stated intentions of invading tiawan at the first opertune moment, and the resumption of Russian long ranged bomber flights whoes sole purpose for existance is to show America that we can be attacked at home.

a given game might re-enforce an allready held opinion, but i dont see them shaping anyones world views to any large degree. i think America is great allready, games dont effect that view point in the least for me, good or bad. my mind is allready made up about 'moral' issues long before i load any game. and i think if your honist with yourself you will admit yours is too. after all can anyone here say with truth that they have had their world view changed by any game they have ever played?

[QUOTE="J-REAL"]

We the USA sale nukes and bio weapons to =/. Do you know that? lol! You see this is were progaganda comes in to play lol! You were told that by US news agencies and now you believe that lol! Prefect example. How is N.K selling nuclear weapon technology when Nato said they might be a few years away from making a bomb =/. I mean if thats true which I dont believe then how are they selling this technology when it hasnt proven that it works. Sometimes you have to sit back and use your brain and say well that doesnt make sense.

Jack_Summersby

We equip our Allies with modern weapons - taht I agree with. We sometimes equip are enements - e.g. the Saudis - that I reject.

Here's the thing, THE US MEDIA REPORTS ALL OF THIS!!!

It's no government secret, as much as you wish it were one. I am well aware of our weapons sales - the good, the bad, the ugly... it all gets exposed in the USA because our media IS FREE.

You US media didn't report about the CIA smuggeling weapons into the hands of Afghan warlords in the 80s to fight the soviets. And they wouldn't dream about reporting that they couldn't get those weapons back like the original agreements said. And now those Stingers are being used to shoot down coalition aircraft and the those AKs are being used to kill coalition troops, and buckets apon buckets of money is helping to fund there bomb making and munitions.

But about N.K, its a dictatorship, but its a terrible dictatorship, atleast Sadam gave Iraq free universitys.

Sure, video games might have a bit of propoganda to them, but atleast we dont have to walk around looking at pictures like these everywhere.

http://www.dprkstudies.org/documents/nkpics/picgal.html

Scroll to the bottom for the anti-US ones. Its pretty funny actually, and I cant help but think the US would get its pants sued off for doing anything remotely similiar.

Now, you could argue that the propaganda in video games is more subtle, and therefore MUST be more devious. But thats a load of bull: hidden messages only work if the message is common knowledge. So while an adult might play Crysis and say "hey, these North Koreans sure are evil!" it is only because he has formed that conclusion already, and the game is merely reinforcing it. Give the game to a naive child, and he will problably say "why are North Koreans the bad guys?" And then, my friends, that child's notions of North Koreans are in the hands of his or her parents and teachers when they answer his or her question.

You US media didn't report about the CIA smuggeling weapons into the hands of Afghan warlords in the 80s to fight the soviets.Platearmor_6

Umm... yeah they did. that's pretty much widely know. Just recently I was watching the news and they were talking about how we put both Saddam and Osama Bin Laden in power. There was an article in the paper about it. Middle school history classes teach about the Afghan/Soviet conflict, the Iran Contra Scandal, etc.

Trust me, America has freedom of the press, and the press often takes full advantage of it.

[QUOTE="Platearmor_6"]You US media didn't report about the CIA smuggeling weapons into the hands of Afghan warlords in the 80s to fight the soviets.Mediocre_man90

Umm... yeah they did. that's pretty much widely know. Just recently I was watching the news and they were talking about how we put both Saddam and Osama Bin Laden in power. There was an article in the paper about it. Middle school history classes teach about the Afghan/Soviet conflict, the Iran Contra Scandal, etc.

Trust me, America has freedom of the press, and the press often takes full advantage of it.

Yes, but once again the rest of the world doesnt care about that. All they care about is how Fox News works for the whitehouse and therefore all news must be corrupted by the government.