Bioware is removing the companion loyalty system...

It will be just like Mass Effect 2.

It seems there is some kind of system, but it will be oversimplified like everything in this game. It

Companions will no longer have loyalty bars, which effect how the companion talks to you, companion bonuses, and greatly affects the story and the possible endings.

http://www.pcgamer.com/2010/11/30/dragon-age-2-preview-the-hero-of-kirwall/

They're also ditching the approval system. You won't be trying to lobby your companions by saving kittens in front of them; now they'll agree with you completely, or just stick around as a 'rival'. A rival respects your power and the role you play in the world, but thinks you're kind of a dick. As a side effect of that, you can't have an outright evil champion. You'll have to settle for being ruthless in the pursuit of your ideals.

Dragon Age 2 is looking over Mass Effect's shoulder and taking some serious notes. That's definitely a good thing.

Read what Bioware developers say here

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/141/index/5353934&lf=8

They are not ditching it but streamlining it...like everything in the game.

Oh well. I still want it.

This is going to be the let down of the year, mark my words!

And the forums shall flooooooowwwww... with hate...

I'm still waiting for Bioware to announce a single positive thing about the game. As it is, it's just felt like a six-months long April Fool's joke.

Meh. The "Loyalty System" in ME2 wasn't nearly as deep as people think. Not a big deal.SubGum

That's the point.
Dragon Age Origins had a better loyalty system (slightly better anyway, although definitely not in the league of Obsidian's games), but now they're removing it in favour of Mass Effect's 'blindly/begrudgingly loyal' system.

Well, have faith, is all I can say. I didn't have any great love for Dragon Age's gameplay (nor would I prefer ME2's system thrust upon it) but it's the setting and lore that made the game for me. If they haven't completely gutted the general story, I'll be okay with whatever Bioware does to their baby.

That's the point.
Dragon Age Origins had a better loyalty system (slightly better anyway, although definitely not in the league of Obsidian's games), but now they're removing it in favour of Mass Effect's 'blindly/begrudgingly loyal' system.

Planeforger

Better? As in pure crap? I say good riddance imo.

I've yet to see an actual reputation/loyalty system that was actually interesting or wasn't absolute broken crap. Best use of this sort of system i've seen is Alpha Protocol and even then, it's sort of incomplete. The rest of them only forces you to have a good standing with companions so you can get that stat bonus or don't end up with a pathetic ending for X characters or even the ending itself.

It actually punishes players for roleplaying instead of the intended purpose of adding some elements to it.

Morrigan disapprove -10, great, time to reload.

Is there something they haven`t removed from this game but added?

No companion customisation.

No loyalty system.

Reduced amount of spells and skills.

Game is shorter.

Worlds are smaller.

Camera is less tactical.

Combat is hack and slash.

This is really a strange trend at Bioware.

Cant say it was usefull in the first game. I itteraly got them al loyal.

Edit, this is for dragon age 2. Oh well. Cant say endless gifts were good either.

I wouldn't mind if the game was just a little shorter (the first one was really a long drag, particularly when going through the Deep Roads), but everything else I've heard disappoints me so far.

I wish Bioware would focus on creating deep and complex RPG's again instead of soap opera's for gamers, but that's just me. Renevent42

Everything basically before KOTOR...ever since then they have gone so crazy with the dialog I can't even play their games anymore. That's not to say their older games didn't have lot of the same sort of stuff, but it wasn't so over the top and they had deep gameplay mechanics to match.Renevent42

[QUOTE="Renevent42"]Everything basically before KOTOR...ever since then they have gone so crazy with the dialog I can't even play their games anymore. That's not to say their older games didn't have lot of the same sort of stuff, but it wasn't so over the top and they had deep gameplay mechanics to match.dakan45

It had some but definitely not anywhere near what's in their current games.

Anyways so what's your point then? I said I miss their old games, and you said since when did they do that and I pointed out when...so not really seeing what you are getting at. Do you mean it's been a long time? Well...that's exactly my point lol.

Do you have something personal against BioWare?

Anyways, there was an entire thread about companions on the DA2 forums, you are welcome to find if you want, but don't ask me for links.

David Gaider (lead writer) said they are removing the approval meter, you can no longer give dog bones to Alistair for approval, you can only get approval through personal gifts and choices, they are removing the meter, it's just called friendship/rivalry now.

Personal? Does it sound like anything personal? I just don't like their more recent games all that much. Feels like watching a soap opera rather than playing a game. i realize I am in the minority here of course, and I don't think they are bad games and they certainly are serving their player base well. However as an older gamer who cares more about deep game play they just don't deliver for me anymore. I'm finding European developers are catering more to my tastes these days...even if they make games a little more rough around the edges.Renevent42

Who cares give me mass effect 3 !!!! :)

Deep combat, leveling mechanics, item systems...stuff like that. But really i would like it if i could play their games for longer than 10 mins without having some silly cut scene or inter party bickering moment rammed down my throat. It's just stuff I really don't care about in games...does nothing for me. There's other things that can drive RPG's forward than just constant dialog and NPC interaction...interesting atmospheric worlds that are fun to explore fr instance. Renevent42

[QUOTE="Renevent42"]Deep combat, leveling mechanics, item systems...stuff like that. But really i would like it if i could play their games for longer than 10 mins without having some silly cut scene or inter party bickering moment rammed down my throat. It's just stuff I really don't care about in games...does nothing for me. There's other things that can drive RPG's forward than just constant dialog and NPC interaction...interesting atmospheric worlds that are fun to explore fr instance. Animatronic64

That's great, it was ****.

Alpha Protocol has the best system of this kind, and what Bioware tries to do now sounds a lot like it.

The more i read about DA2 the more i'm losing interest in it seems like they're taking everything i liked about DA out and filling it in with stuff from ME 2.

I'll still end up picking the game up for sure but its no longer a day 1 buy for me and more of a down the line when it becomes cheap.

I'm still waiting for Bioware to announce a single positive thing about the game. As it is, it's just felt like a six-months long April Fool's joke.

Planeforger

it is a shame because i loved the first game.

The more i read about DA2 the more i'm losing interest in it seems like they're taking everything i liked about DA out and filling it in with stuff from ME 2.

I'll still end up picking the game up for sure but its no longer a day 1 buy for me and more of a down the line when it becomes cheap.

Ocid1

[QUOTE="SubGum"]Meh. The "Loyalty System" in ME2 wasn't nearly as deep as people think. Not a big deal.Planeforger

That's the point.
Dragon Age Origins had a better loyalty system (slightly better anyway, although definitely not in the league of Obsidian's games), but now they're removing it in favour of Mass Effect's 'blindly/begrudgingly loyal' system.

[QUOTE="Ocid1"]

The more i read about DA2 the more i'm losing interest in it seems like they're taking everything i liked about DA out and filling it in with stuff from ME 2.

I'll still end up picking the game up for sure but its no longer a day 1 buy for me and more of a down the line when it becomes cheap.

Makari

i can guarantee dragon age 2 will sell like warm bread. this image speaks for itself:

Feels good man.

[QUOTE="dakan45"][QUOTE="Renevent42"]Everything basically before KOTOR...ever since then they have gone so crazy with the dialog I can't even play their games anymore. That's not to say their older games didn't have lot of the same sort of stuff, but it wasn't so over the top and they had deep gameplay mechanics to match.Renevent42

It had some but definitely not anywhere near what's in their current games.

Anyways so what's your point then? I said I miss their old games, and you said since when did they do that and I pointed out when...so not really seeing what you are getting at. Do you mean it's been a long time? Well...that's exactly my point lol.

[QUOTE="Makari"][QUOTE="Ocid1"]

The more i read about DA2 the more i'm losing interest in it seems like they're taking everything i liked about DA out and filling it in with stuff from ME 2.

I'll still end up picking the game up for sure but its no longer a day 1 buy for me and more of a down the line when it becomes cheap.

SkyWard20

i can guarantee dragon age 2 will sell like warm bread. this image speaks for itself:

Feels good man.

Your image says : "I love Dragon age", it doesn`t say "I love Dragon age 2".

[QUOTE="Renevent42"]

[QUOTE="dakan45"] Before kotor, exactly my point and correct me if i am wrong but neverwinter nights did not have much of party member interactions right?dakan45

It had some but definitely not anywhere near what's in their current games.

Anyways so what's your point then? I said I miss their old games, and you said since when did they do that and I pointed out when...so not really seeing what you are getting at. Do you mean it's been a long time? Well...that's exactly my point lol.

[QUOTE="Planeforger"]

[QUOTE="SubGum"]Meh. The "Loyalty System" in ME2 wasn't nearly as deep as people think. Not a big deal.SkyWard20

That's the point.
Dragon Age Origins had a better loyalty system (slightly better anyway, although definitely not in the league of Obsidian's games), but now they're removing it in favour of Mass Effect's 'blindly/begrudgingly loyal' system.

The loyalty system in Neverwinter nights 2 and mask of the betrayer were awesome. Especially in Mask of the betrayer, where you really had to think about what you said and did infront of your companions. Because they really reacted out from their personality, not just from what was wrong or right, evil or good.

Don't you guys remember how hard it was to get Oghren's side quest in Awakenings because there were not many gifts to go around? I say good riddance. It's not like they are abandoning the whole system. It's just not done with numbers and gifts anymore...just a bar saying how much of a friend/rival/neutral that your companions are. And I guess it would be based off your quest choices, dialogue options etc. Also followers can leave permanently if you piss them off. Btw I'm getting all this from Mary Kirby's dev posts:

It's a bit hard to answer just now, since the balancing hasn't been done yet on approval. Also, I have the plague, and fever makes writing anything coherent really tricky. So I'll do this in parts.

Part one:the general idea is that party member approval is tied more to the big things and less to the small things. You should get major amounts of approval from doing follower quests and handling big plot decisions, and small amounts from the sort of things you decide to say in casual conversations or decisions in sidequests. So in theory, you should be able to gain approval with a character for how you do their plot, and lose approval for being mean to kittens or for taking goody-two-shoes quests all the time, and still come out with max friendship (or max rivalry).What you do with the followermatters more than what you say to other people or what you do with random questgiver #25; and hopefully, that reduces the feeling that you have to constantly pick dialogue responses a character likes (or hates) in order to get all their content.

Part two:You'll get to know followers just as well whether you get positive approval or negative approval. You get offered quests and you can start a romance (if a romance is an option) no matter which side of the scale you are on. You just get a different sort offlavorto the interactions depending on which side you're on.

Part three:Yeah, there's still no benefit to being neutral with a follower. You shouldn't lose out on as much dialogue and content, though. If you do their quests, you'll more than likely get to know them, even if you somehow don't hit maximum approval.

You can still be a nug-licker to your party members, and this will sometimes cause them to leave your party forever and ever. However, this is actually different from rivalry. Rivalry means "we disagree on something fundamental." You can still be close, but that disagreement is always there, and you will have arguments about it from time to time. Possibly, you will even change their mind. Or maybe they'll change yours? It's hard to guess. But it's not hatred. It's just conflict. And conflict, or possibly paprika, is the spice of life, as we all know.Mary Kirby

EDIT: Here's the link to the original post. You need to be logged in through BioWare social to filter the dev post though.

Is there something they haven`t removed from this game but added?

No companion customisation.

No loyalty system.

Reduced amount of spells and skills.

Game is shorter.

Worlds are smaller.

Camera is less tactical.

Combat is hack and slash.

This is really a strange trend at Bioware.

Dantus12

post bg2 bioware games are crap, loyalty system or not

rage inbound...

I'm still waiting for Bioware to announce a single positive thing about the game. As it is, it's just felt like a six-months long April Fool's joke.

Planeforger

post bg2 bioware games are crap, loyalty system or not

rage inbound...

i_saw_a_mudcrab

but never mind, i'm talking to someone who believes he has the right to diss other people work when:

1.they have garnered significant praise from the gaming press.

2.poured millions of dollars into games most here will probably never even get to play a small part into their development in their entire lifetime.

heck, people here feel they have the right to criticize everything about a game and say it sucks like they're some kind of master game designers. hell, most here couldn't even create a tic tac toe flash game. But this is the internet...

From what I am getting it they are making it like Jade Empire. More story focused, so they want to keep everything tight as possible, they are trying something different.

[QUOTE="dakan45"][QUOTE="Renevent42"]

It had some but definitely not anywhere near what's in their current games.

Anyways so what's your point then? I said I miss their old games, and you said since when did they do that and I pointed out when...so not really seeing what you are getting at. Do you mean it's been a long time? Well...that's exactly my point lol.

Renevent42

[QUOTE="Renevent42"][QUOTE="dakan45"] More like, in a veryyyy long time. You could say that by bringing 3d to the table, they lost the ability to make complex games. Part of me starts to think that there is a reason gamepla is not complex nowadays and that is something related to the complexity of graphics rather the way eerything is casualized since its been a very long time since bioware made complex games and that was wayyy back then when games did not have complex graphics,so perhaps the reason they dont make complex gameplay anymore is that the graphics complexity along with so many variables in gameplay can cause problems with the game. Honestly i dont know what to think anymore but thats what i am starting to believe.dakan45

This is going to be the let down of the year, mark my words!

And the forums shall flooooooowwwww... with hate...

Bros89

hating it already, well not really ME 2 was awesome but i don't see the need to make games thinking we are brain damaged and making each game a copy of another one, let dragon age be dragon age instead of mass effect medieval version. now its like bioware is making the same system for every game they release