I was thinking more of only leaving half the game on the disk. When you get to a part an icon will say: If you want to continue please buy the content on EA Store. Some time later hackers will know that the content was on the disk all along and what you bought was an activation key for get the rest of the game.The whole idea behind DLC was that it was supposed to be extra on top of the full release. You pay them extra $ because they did extra work.
But this game isnt even out yet! So we need to buy it right now or they will lock us out of the complete game and we need to pay more later if we want to play all of the content. This DLC stuff is out of control.
Whats next, making the final boss fight DLC and making you pay more to see the end of a game?
Mr_Ditters
Bioware/EA, I am dissapoint...
This topic is locked from further discussion.
When you get to a part an icon will say: If you want to continue please buy the content on EA Store. Miroku32
They are pretty much doing this already. Remember the guy who would show up at your Party Camp in DA:O who would advertise the DLC packs? Ridiculous!
The fun part of this limited offer is that it won't be available on Steam.
I wonder if that's because Bioware would rather not give part of their profits to Valve, or because they know the Steam version will be popular (so they'll sell more DLC)...
Planeforger
Why do you think it is BioWare's fault? Publishing and distribution is done by EA. BioWare is just the developer. You may have noticed that it is not just Dragon Age 2 that is not available through Steam. Other games like Crysis 2, Dead Space 2 and the already released Hot Pursuit 2 are not available for pre-order, since they are all EA published games as well.
It is still available through Impulse, Direct2Drive and GamersGate.
They can secure their bonuses by making a brilliant game that is better than BG2... but no they won't. So they will not be getting my money when I have NWN2 and BG2 to replay any time I want.Don't see the problem
They want to secure sales and they're offering a nice extra for people who were going to buy iy anyway
Honestly all this crap about "they're not being fair" has to stop. They're selling a product and want to make sure that it sells well so they can get all their bonuses. By offering a piece of DLC for early buyers it helps secure those bonuses
Jaysonguy
[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]They can secure their bonuses by making a brilliant game that is better than BG2... but no they won't. So they will not be getting my money when I have NWN2 and BG2 to replay any time I want.Don't see the problem
They want to secure sales and they're offering a nice extra for people who were going to buy iy anyway
Honestly all this crap about "they're not being fair" has to stop. They're selling a product and want to make sure that it sells well so they can get all their bonuses. By offering a piece of DLC for early buyers it helps secure those bonuses
wigan_gamer
No they can't, not too sure how you think that's possible
So you're saying they can secure their preorder bonuses by releasing a good game?
I'd love to hear you explain this though so when you get a chance please do
They can secure their bonuses by making a brilliant game that is better than BG2... but no they won't. So they will not be getting my money when I have NWN2 and BG2 to replay any time I want.[QUOTE="wigan_gamer"][QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]
Don't see the problem
They want to secure sales and they're offering a nice extra for people who were going to buy iy anyway
Honestly all this crap about "they're not being fair" has to stop. They're selling a product and want to make sure that it sells well so they can get all their bonuses. By offering a piece of DLC for early buyers it helps secure those bonuses
Jaysonguy
No they can't, not too sure how you think that's possible
So you're saying they can secure their preorder bonuses by releasing a good game?
I'd love to hear you explain this though so when you get a chance please do
They don't need pre-orders to make the game successful. All they need is a superb game and it will certainly make them mega money. If a game is released that is better than BG2, it will be a huge money maker. They care more about cashing in than making a good game using these kinds of sales tactics.... I think releasing down loadable content as an extra fee on release (i think its on release) is a disgrace. Just include it in the game.[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"][QUOTE="wigan_gamer"] They can secure their bonuses by making a brilliant game that is better than BG2... but no they won't. So they will not be getting my money when I have NWN2 and BG2 to replay any time I want.wigan_gamer
No they can't, not too sure how you think that's possible
So you're saying they can secure their preorder bonuses by releasing a good game?
I'd love to hear you explain this though so when you get a chance please do
They don't need pre-orders to make the game successful. All they need is a superb game and it will certainly make them mega money. If a game is released that is better than BG2, it will be a huge money maker. They care more about cashing in than making a good game using these kinds of sales tactics.... I think releasing down loadable content as an extra fee on release (i think its on release) is a disgrace. Just include it in the game.You still didn't answer how they're supposed to make their preorder bonus
Also why should everyone get the content for free? This content is for the people who have faith in the game and the devs and they put down their money early and are being rewarded.
Bioware couldn't release a game with the scope of Baldur's Gate again, EA wouldn't let them take the time to craft a world that big. Gotta make a small game,chop it up and sell it as DLC after all... Good thing Throne of Bhaal was their last amazing game.
This. I hate bioware now. They are capable of great games but no... they are forced to make lesser games for quick profit. Sickens me.Bioware couldn't release a game with the scope of Baldur's Gate again, EA wouldn't let them take the time to craft a world that big. Gotta make a small game,chop it up and sell it as DLC after all... Good thing Throne of Bhaal was their last amazing game.
Whiteblade999
Doesn't bother me, I pre-ordered the game.
Extra incentive being added to buy new - nothing wrong with that. Geez, any business does something to get people in the door when a new product comes out.
Bioware couldn't release a game with the scope of Baldur's Gate again, EA wouldn't let them take the time to craft a world that big. Gotta make a small game,chop it up and sell it as DLC after all... Good thing Throne of Bhaal was their last amazing game.
Whiteblade999
Why put the blame on EA? I'm sure Bioware are perfectly happy with churning out smaller games, and then raking it in with DLC. Less work, more money.
After Dragon Age Origins, I've got a pretty good idea of how bad Dragon Age 2's DLC will be. I can afford to miss out on it if it means that I get the game for a better price a few months down the line.
Then again, after Dragon Age Origins, I think this might be the first Bioware RPG that I skip entirely. I don't see anything appealing about this franchise, and everything I've heard about DA2 makes it sound worse than the original.
Maybe I'll wait for the Ultimate Edition...if it's cheap.
[QUOTE="Remmib"]
Bioware is becoming pretty meh to me.
Valve remains the best PC developer.
Planeforger
Bioware was a great PC developer back when they made BG2 in 2000. They might have even been a great PC dev back when Neverwinter Nights came out in 2002...although that was nowhere near as good as their previous game.
Since then, though, they probably don't even count as 'PC developers' - they made a bunch of timed Xbox exclusives, and then a bunch of action-heavy multiplats. The only PC-oriented game they'll have made in the past nine years is The Old Republic.
BioWare has consistently delivered excellence and quality content well after Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights.In fact, the memorable characters it has created ( Revan and Shepard ) were AFTER any of those games. Whether they are a PC-exclusive developer or a multiplat one matters little for me.
We should be thankful we get anything considering the boiling issue of piracy this platform is plagued with. To mirror a certain mod's opinion on here, we are not in an age where the PC is still light-years ahead of every console of its generation. The PC has its advantages, but the differences are lessening with each new generation of consoles.
EDIT: Oh, and would anyone be so kind as to search through his/her mental banks to remember the last time when Valve put millions upon millions of dolars into a PC-exclusive game? I think not.
We are not entitled to everything the developer makes. If it's something terrible like new skins or just a weapon, I would understand. But if the DLC is actually GOOD and WORTHWILE, they have every right to charge for it.
SkyWard20
Sure, they have the right to do whatever they want to do with their products. The difference though between Bioware/EA and other developers is that the other developers put out a full and complete product where it seems that Bioware/EA is happy to put out 2/3 of a game and release the final 1/3 as paid DLC.
Doesn't matter anymore to me though. After seeing DA:O Ultimate for $25 during Steam's holiday sale, if they are going to keep going down this DLC-focused route, they have guaranteed that I will never buy one of their games at release again.
We should be thankful we get anything considering the boiling issue of piracy this platform is plagued with. To mirror a certain mod's opinion on here, we are not in an age where the PC is still light-years ahead of every console of its generation. The PC has its advantages, but the differences are lessening with each new generation of consoles.SkyWard20
Urgggh I hate this line of thinking, why on earth should I be "thankful" that a company wants to sell me something ? I am not thankful that Zanussi sold me a fridge, I am not thankful to Toshiba for selling me a TV. They wanted my money and they sold me something to get my money. They should be thankful I decided to spend my money on THEIR products rather than go with at least half a dozen other competitors.
It should be the same way with the software industry, Bioware are making the game on the PC because they KNOW they will make money from it. I mean are you seriously deluded enough to think they are doing it as some sort of "favour" to the PC platform ? If they were not 100% certain that they can make a pretty decent profit on the PC then there would be no Dragons Age 2 or Mass Effect 3. So firstly stop fooling yourself that they are doing you a "favour" by making a product for you to buy.
I have already decided not to buy Dragon Age 2 or Mass Effect 3 for several reasons, the first being the $60 price tag (why should PC gamers pay the same as console gamers when there is no royalty fee on the PC), the unavailability of their products on steam, the nickle and diming of content and the exclusive bull they are now pulling with ME 2 on the PS3. No I don't feel "thankful" that they are supporting the PC, I feel they should up their game and start earning my money if they want me to buy their products.
The idea that DLC should be free if some or all of it was developed before the game was launched is silly. By the same rationale, no studio should work on two games at once because gamers are somehow entitled to see every hour and every effort the studio can produce, put into the game they buy.
There's plenty of games out there that offer pre-order bonuses. In game items, skins, levels, models and so on. In the modern game industry, pre-orders play a major role in deciding shelf space, hype from magazines and web sites and are in many ways used as a yard stick of the company's success. Lot of pre-orders = lots of money for the developer.
Game Studios are companies. They exist to create a profit, not to make you happy, that's just a means to an end. BioWare is in the enviable situation that they've proven to a lot of people that they can deliver. They can make games that millions of people really like. They've done it several times in a row. Based on sales and reviews and .. they are better at making games than 99% of the game studios out there. Because of this success they now believe they can increase their price. After all, if they are able to supply a better product, is it so unreasonable for them to raise their prices?
Also consider that BioWare have been very good at also lowering their prices and offering 'bundle' packages of their games. So if you dislike their price point, all you have to do is wait. If you don't want to wait, you'll have to pay full price.
I think that overall we're seeing an industry development where game prices are becoming a lot less fixed. In the past games tended to cost 49.99 No more no less. There'd be a few bargain bin junk titles, but all real games cost 49.99 until they were removed from the shelves. Nowadays prices are becoming a lot more dynamic. Blockbuster titles that are almost guaranteed to sell well are going to sell for the new price point of 59.99 and see plenty of DLC released in the first year of the game. Regular 'big games' are going to retail for 49-59 depending on the market projections but will see a drop in price relatively quickly. Smaller titles will be able to sell at lower price point to allow them to stay competitive (Amnesia sold for $20 at launch if I remember right). In short publishers are going to tailor their prices to fit the game. Dragon Age 2 (like StarCraft 2 or Call of Duty: Whatever) is a huge title, so it's going to be more expensive.
[QUOTE="SkyWard20"]
We are not entitled to everything the developer makes. If it's something terrible like new skins or just a weapon, I would understand. But if the DLC is actually GOOD and WORTHWILE, they have every right to charge for it.
mkaliaz
Sure, they have the right to do whatever they want to do with their products. The difference though between Bioware/EA and other developers is that the other developers put out a full and complete product where it seems that Bioware/EA is happy to put out 2/3 of a game and release the final 1/3 as paid DLC.
Doesn't matter anymore to me though. After seeing DA:O Ultimate for $25 during Steam's holiday sale, if they are going to keep going down this DLC-focused route, they have guaranteed that I will never buy one of their games at release again.
I never understood that argument. BioWare's games are huge. Mass Effect 2 was a big game, Dragon Age was a big game. If these were games that you could complete in 4-5 hours I could see your argument. But if you look simply at the retail box, can you honestly say that they are not providing as much (if not more) game per. dollar than most other game developers? It would make more sense to me if you judged the game by the content it offer, regardless of what DLC that might be offered on the side. If they are offering good value for the cost, good! If they are offering a low value for the cost, regardless of what DLC might be available, then that seems like a valid complaint.
People are actually looking forward to DA2? lol
Urgggh I hate this line of thinking, why on earth should I be "thankful" that a company wants to sell me something ? I am not thankful that Zanussi sold me a fridge, I am not thankful to Toshiba for selling me a TV. They wanted my money and they sold me something to get my money. They should be thankful I decided to spend my money on THEIR products rather than go with at least half a dozen other competitors.
It should be the same way with the software industry, Bioware are making the game on the PC because they KNOW they will make money from it. I mean are you seriously deluded enough to think they are doing it as some sort of "favour" to the PC platform ? If they were not 100% certain that they can make a pretty decent profit on the PC then there would be no Dragons Age 2 or Mass Effect 3. So firstly stop fooling yourself that they are doing you a "favour" by making a product for you to buy.
I have already decided not to buy Dragon Age 2 or Mass Effect 3 for several reasons, the first being the $60 price tag (why should PC gamers pay the same as console gamers when there is no royalty fee on the PC), the unavailability of their products on steam, the nickle and diming of content and the exclusive bull they are now pulling with ME 2 on the PS3. No I don't feel "thankful" that they are supporting the PC, I feel they should up their game and start earning my money if they want me to buy their products.
charmingcharlie
Nicely said! I will never buy a $60 game or any DLC, ever. Personally, I am starting to think it's probably best to wait for the inevitable super-groovy-ultimate-diamond edition that almost always gets released and includes the whole game.
Nicely said! I will never buy a $60 game or any DLC, ever. Personally, I am starting to think it's probably best to wait for the inevitable super-groovy-ultimate-diamond edition that almost always gets released and includes the whole game.
-wildflower-
Same here my man, the best part is we get these "ultimate editions" for like 20 bucks 8 months after the launch of these games.
I think the most i spend for a game was 25 euro's (30 US bucks).
I look at it like this: the launch of a new game is like its beta/big demo which the developers/publishers expect we should pay them full price.
Then after a couple of months, when the hype has been killed, they launch the "complete edition", like back in the days when they launched a normal game, nothing cut out.
In the end you still get the same content as back in the days, you only need to wait a couple of months after the "beta release" or "Hype periode" :P
I remember when i bought the Dragon Age Ultimate Edition on steam during the sales, i looked at the official dragon age site and saw a promo for the UE and it was something like "get the whole package, worth 120 euro's for the price of a normal game."
So some (alot!) people actually spend 120 euro's for 1 game, and people still wonder why they do dlc's and stuff? its a gold mine and after they looted all the gold out of people's pockets they jest with those promo's :D
[QUOTE="mkaliaz"]
Sure, they have the right to do whatever they want to do with their products. The difference though between Bioware/EA and other developers is that the other developers put out a full and complete product where it seems that Bioware/EA is happy to put out 2/3 of a game and release the final 1/3 as paid DLC.
Doesn't matter anymore to me though. After seeing DA:O Ultimate for $25 during Steam's holiday sale, if they are going to keep going down this DLC-focused route, they have guaranteed that I will never buy one of their games at release again.
Mazoch
I never understood that argument. BioWare's games are huge. Mass Effect 2 was a big game, Dragon Age was a big game. If these were games that you could complete in 4-5 hours I could see your argument. But if you look simply at the retail box, can you honestly say that they are not providing as much (if not more) game per. dollar than most other game developers? It would make more sense to me if you judged the game by the content it offer, regardless of what DLC that might be offered on the side. If they are offering good value for the cost, good! If they are offering a low value for the cost, regardless of what DLC might be available, then that seems like a valid complaint.
Actually, I will agree with you here. I bought both ME2 and DA:O at release and got between 50-80 hours out of them the first playthrough. There is no doubt I got value for my money. Maybe the problem I have is that when I look back at my DA:O DVD case sitting in my desk, I feel like I paid a premium for a game (bought expansion at retail too) and because I refused to spend another $50 on extra DLC, I only got the majority of the story and not the entire thing. To me, DLC cheapens my experience I had with the game. That is why I say that the final 1/3 is paid DLC.
As I said before though and others have said just above me, there are options and the one that is looking good to me now is just to wait until the ultimate versions come out to get the entire experience. I still think Bioware is a great developer, but to me, they seem to be influenced far too much these days by the greed goggles.
[QUOTE="Whiteblade999"]
Bioware couldn't release a game with the scope of Baldur's Gate again, EA wouldn't let them take the time to craft a world that big. Gotta make a small game,chop it up and sell it as DLC after all... Good thing Throne of Bhaal was their last amazing game.
Planeforger
Why put the blame on EA? I'm sure Bioware are perfectly happy with churning out smaller games, and then raking it in with DLC. Less work, more money.
Because I would like to think the developer has some common sense when developing their game and not actively trying to piss off the fans who made them what they are today.
We are not entitled to everything the developer makes. If it's something terrible like new skins or just a weapon, I would understand. But if the DLC is actually GOOD and WORTHWILE, they have every right to charge for it.
SkyWard20
You are missing the main point completely. No one has an issue with them trying to make money but we have issues with them announcing DLC when the game is out in 2 months. Or about how they are gonna probably put another quest NPC in your main camp who you need to buy DLC for to do their quest? Both are quick ways to piss off fans and give them reasons to go pirate DLC or avoid it entirely.
Now about the DLC actually being good or not, have you actually played the DLC for Dragon Age outside of Shale? It was like they crapped all over the quality of the main game and tried to sell it. If that is any indication of the quality we can expect for 2 they can keep it as far as I'm concerned.
[QUOTE="Planeforger"]
[QUOTE="Whiteblade999"]
Bioware couldn't release a game with the scope of Baldur's Gate again, EA wouldn't let them take the time to craft a world that big. Gotta make a small game,chop it up and sell it as DLC after all... Good thing Throne of Bhaal was their last amazing game.
Whiteblade999
Why put the blame on EA? I'm sure Bioware are perfectly happy with churning out smaller games, and then raking it in with DLC. Less work, more money.
Because I would like to think the developer has some common sense when developing their game and not actively trying to piss off the fans who made them what they are today.
You think anyone cares or something. It's all about the casual audience and mass appeal.[QUOTE="Planeforger"]
[QUOTE="Whiteblade999"]
Bioware couldn't release a game with the scope of Baldur's Gate again, EA wouldn't let them take the time to craft a world that big. Gotta make a small game,chop it up and sell it as DLC after all... Good thing Throne of Bhaal was their last amazing game.
Whiteblade999
Why put the blame on EA? I'm sure Bioware are perfectly happy with churning out smaller games, and then raking it in with DLC. Less work, more money.
Because I would like to think the developer has some common sense when developing their game and not actively trying to piss off the fans who made them what they are today.
You would be surprised how much the times have changed. Case in point: Epic Games and Infinity Ward. Both started on the PC which put them on the map, yet now both of those developers treat the PC platform as an afterthought.Yes, this x 1000. More often than not from what I saw, pre-order DLC and the like is created on the side, not as a part of the original game, by a part of the team that is not associated with the main project, running on its own separate budget. It's basically a miniature expansion pack. Take, for example, Bethesda and the DLC for Fallout 3 - they were entirely separate projects with their own independent teams working on it, even if the DLC was being worked on parallel to the game. If this stuff wasn't being sold as DLC, it simply *would not exist.*The idea that DLC should be free if some or all of it was developed before the game was launched is silly. By the same rationale, no studio should work on two games at once because gamers are somehow entitled to see every hour and every effort the studio can produce, put into the game they buy.
There's plenty of games out there that offer pre-order bonuses. In game items, skins, levels, models and so on. In the modern game industry, pre-orders play a major role in deciding shelf space, hype from magazines and web sites and are in many ways used as a yard stick of the company's success. Lot of pre-orders = lots of money for the developer.
Game Studios are companies. They exist to create a profit, not to make you happy, that's just a means to an end. BioWare is in the enviable situation that they've proven to a lot of people that they can deliver. They can make games that millions of people really like. They've done it several times in a row. Based on sales and reviews and .. they are better at making games than 99% of the game studios out there. Because of this success they now believe they can increase their price. After all, if they are able to supply a better product, is it so unreasonable for them to raise their prices?
Also consider that BioWare have been very good at also lowering their prices and offering 'bundle' packages of their games. So if you dislike their price point, all you have to do is wait. If you don't want to wait, you'll have to pay full price.
I think that overall we're seeing an industry development where game prices are becoming a lot less fixed. In the past games tended to cost 49.99 No more no less. There'd be a few bargain bin junk titles, but all real games cost 49.99 until they were removed from the shelves. Nowadays prices are becoming a lot more dynamic. Blockbuster titles that are almost guaranteed to sell well are going to sell for the new price point of 59.99 and see plenty of DLC released in the first year of the game. Regular 'big games' are going to retail for 49-59 depending on the market projections but will see a drop in price relatively quickly. Smaller titles will be able to sell at lower price point to allow them to stay competitive (Amnesia sold for $20 at launch if I remember right). In short publishers are going to tailor their prices to fit the game. Dragon Age 2 (like StarCraft 2 or Call of Duty: Whatever) is a huge title, so it's going to be more expensive.
Mazoch
Other people may have had a point a couple years ago when it was blatant on-disk sections of the game that you'd have otherwise unlocked normally, but most companies learned that people don't like that and moved away from the behavior quickly. And if you don't like the small scope of the DLC or the focus itself (as I didn't - passed on most of the DAO DLC that didn't run with your original party), that's fine. Not liking it because you feel like you're entitled to it is just ridiculous. Why not complain that you're not getting TOR and Mass Effect 3 for free if you buy Dragon Age 2, then? Those are also separate projects being worked on at the same time.
[QUOTE="SkyWard20"]
We should be thankful we get anything considering the boiling issue of piracy this platform is plagued with. To mirror a certain mod's opinion on here, we are not in an age where the PC is still light-years ahead of every console of its generation. The PC has its advantages, but the differences are lessening with each new generation of consoles.charmingcharlie
Urgggh I hate this line of thinking, why on earth should I be "thankful" that a company wants to sell me something ? I am not thankful that Zanussi sold me a fridge, I am not thankful to Toshiba for selling me a TV. They wanted my money and they sold me something to get my money. They should be thankful I decided to spend my money on THEIR products rather than go with at least half a dozen other competitors.
It should be the same way with the software industry, Bioware are making the game on the PC because they KNOW they will make money from it. I mean are you seriously deluded enough to think they are doing it as some sort of "favour" to the PC platform ? If they were not 100% certain that they can make a pretty decent profit on the PC then there would be no Dragons Age 2 or Mass Effect 3. So firstly stop fooling yourself that they are doing you a "favour" by making a product for you to buy.
I have already decided not to buy Dragon Age 2 or Mass Effect 3 for several reasons, the first being the $60 price tag (why should PC gamers pay the same as console gamers when there is no royalty fee on the PC), the unavailability of their products on steam, the nickle and diming of content and the exclusive bull they are now pulling with ME 2 on the PS3. No I don't feel "thankful" that they are supporting the PC, I feel they should up their game and start earning my money if they want me to buy their products.
Nailed it. There are like ten RPG's coming out that look a lot better than DA II, and they all cost 50$. Why should i pay 60$ for it, and be happy :o? Ill wait until the ultimate edition is 25 $. Which should be somewhere Christmas time.[QUOTE="Whiteblade999"][QUOTE="Planeforger"]
Why put the blame on EA? I'm sure Bioware are perfectly happy with churning out smaller games, and then raking it in with DLC. Less work, more money.
the_ChEeSe_mAn2
Because I would like to think the developer has some common sense when developing their game and not actively trying to piss off the fans who made them what they are today.
You would be surprised how much the times have changed. Case in point: Epic Games and Infinity Ward. Both started on the PC which put them on the map, yet now both of those developers treat the PC platform as an afterthought. Sad reality, really. It almost looks like they treat it as scum and spit on it. Particularly Cliff Blezinsky.[QUOTE="the_ChEeSe_mAn2"][QUOTE="Whiteblade999"]You would be surprised how much the times have changed. Case in point: Epic Games and Infinity Ward. Both started on the PC which put them on the map, yet now both of those developers treat the PC platform as an afterthought. Sad reality, really. It almost looks like they treat it as scum and spit on it. Particularly Cliff Blezinsky.Because I would like to think the developer has some common sense when developing their game and not actively trying to piss off the fans who made them what they are today.
yourmajesty90
Not really. There's *****tons of money to be made from PC gaming, even Epic can see that.
http://pc.ign.com/articles/855/855994p1.html Read this.
[QUOTE="SkyWard20"]
We should be thankful we get anything considering the boiling issue of piracy this platform is plagued with. To mirror a certain mod's opinion on here, we are not in an age where the PC is still light-years ahead of every console of its generation. The PC has its advantages, but the differences are lessening with each new generation of consoles.charmingcharlie
Urgggh I hate this line of thinking, why on earth should I be "thankful" that a company wants to sell me something ? I am not thankful that Zanussi sold me a fridge, I am not thankful to Toshiba for selling me a TV. They wanted my money and they sold me something to get my money. They should be thankful I decided to spend my money on THEIR products rather than go with at least half a dozen other competitors.
It should be the same way with the software industry, Bioware are making the game on the PC because they KNOW they will make money from it. I mean are you seriously deluded enough to think they are doing it as some sort of "favour" to the PC platform ? If they were not 100% certain that they can make a pretty decent profit on the PC then there would be no Dragons Age 2 or Mass Effect 3. So firstly stop fooling yourself that they are doing you a "favour" by making a product for you to buy.
I have already decided not to buy Dragon Age 2 or Mass Effect 3 for several reasons, the first being the $60 price tag (why should PC gamers pay the same as console gamers when there is no royalty fee on the PC)more PC games are becoming 60 bucks nowadays, have you seen prices on future PC games, though I agree and would rather get them cheaper, the unavailability of their products on steam that sucks, but I hardly use Steam, though I should, the nickle and diming of content Mass Effect 2 had good DLC though it's a bit much and LOL at Dragon Age DLC and the exclusive bull they are now pulling with ME 2 on the PS3 Agreed with that. No I don't feel "thankful" that they are supporting the PC, I feel they should up their game and start earning my money if they want me to buy their products.
Bioware has changed!D=Of course things are cut out of the games now and made in to quote "DLC". look at how short single player games are now. It is pretty obvious once a precedent has been established then that is the way it stays. Once people actualy started falling for the idea of paying for content that should have come with the game then they had ya by the short hairs.
Doesn't bother me, I pre-ordered the game.
Extra incentive being added to buy new - nothing wrong with that. Geez, any business does something to get people in the door when a new product comes out.
topsemag55
You, SkyWard and me...that makes 3 of us in the GS forums lol
Woah woah woah woah woah woah woah. Woah. Woooah. Woah.
PC Games cost $10 more now? What the hell? That was something I liked, that they didn't cost $60 like console games suddenly did.
Also, Pre-order content is fine. But purposely cutting out content to release later as DLC just to make more money isn't. You can tell me "BUT DEY HAZ 2 MAEK MONIES KOZ DEY R A BIZZEYNESS1!1one" all you like. They made plenty of money before DLC and they would certainly make plenty of money if it was never even thought of.
Woah woah woah woah woah woah woah. Woah. Woooah. Woah.
PC Games cost $10 more now? What the hell? That was something I liked, that they didn't cost $60 like console games suddenly did.
Also, Pre-order content is fine. But purposely cutting out content to release later as DLC just to make more money isn't. You can tell me "BUT DEY HAZ 2 MAEK MONIES KOZ DEY R A BIZZEYNESS1!1one" all you like. They made plenty of money before DLC and they would certainly make plenty of money if it was never even thought of.
Bladecutter56
Not all of them, it is a trend for mainstream releases by Activision/Ubisoft/EA while some companies still have common sense. The Witcher 2 is a game I know will retail for $50 and glancing at the coming soon for steam Rift and DC online both are set at $50.
Who's talking about cutting anything. They developed an extra quest and an extra NPC while developing the rest of the game. That quest and that NPC are being offered as DLC or a pre-order incentive. That doesn't mean that it was cut. It's impossible to say if they would still have invested the money in creating that extra quest and that extra NPC if they wasn't planning to release it as DLC. Them having to make money or not is irrelevant. Who, what or where the quest and NPC was developed is also irrelevant. Consider what they are offering for what amount of money they are asking and make your choice based on that.Woah woah woah woah woah woah woah. Woah. Woooah. Woah.
PC Games cost $10 more now? What the hell? That was something I liked, that they didn't cost $60 like console games suddenly did.
Also, Pre-order content is fine. But purposely cutting out content to release later as DLC just to make more money isn't. You can tell me "BUT DEY HAZ 2 MAEK MONIES KOZ DEY R A BIZZEYNESS1!1one" all you like. They made plenty of money before DLC and they would certainly make plenty of money if it was never even thought of.
Bladecutter56
[QUOTE="Bladecutter56"]Who's talking about cutting anything. They developed an extra quest and an extra NPC while developing the rest of the game. That quest and that NPC are being offered as DLC or a pre-order incentive. That doesn't mean that it was cut. It's impossible to say if they would still have invested the money in creating that extra quest and that extra NPC if they wasn't planning to release it as DLC. Them having to make money or not is irrelevant. Who, what or where the quest and NPC was developed is also irrelevant. Consider what they are offering for what amount of money they are asking and make your choice based on that.Woah woah woah woah woah woah woah. Woah. Woooah. Woah.
PC Games cost $10 more now? What the hell? That was something I liked, that they didn't cost $60 like console games suddenly did.
Also, Pre-order content is fine. But purposely cutting out content to release later as DLC just to make more money isn't. You can tell me "BUT DEY HAZ 2 MAEK MONIES KOZ DEY R A BIZZEYNESS1!1one" all you like. They made plenty of money before DLC and they would certainly make plenty of money if it was never even thought of.
Mazoch
Ofcourse they cut out content to sell as DLC.
DA:O, i can bet had loads of content cut out. There as day one DLC, and **** of DLC released after, while the team was busy working on DA II. Can you explain that. It was five years in development, waaay before DLC became *In*.
Also Mafia II had obviosly content cut from it.
Ofcourse they cut out content to sell as DLC.GeneralShowzerSigh. However you'd *like* to feel things were with DAO, it's an unfortunate fact that what you're saying is exactly what did not happen, as I noted in my somewhat wordy post. Though I'm not privy to how 2K handled it with Mafia II, I know that they specifically had separate teams doing the Bioshock 2's day-one DLC and it wasn't 'cut' content in that game. Separate dev team than Mafia was though, so maybe they didn't on that game, I dunno.
[QUOTE="SkyWard20"]
We should be thankful we get anything considering the boiling issue of piracy this platform is plagued with. To mirror a certain mod's opinion on here, we are not in an age where the PC is still light-years ahead of every console of its generation. The PC has its advantages, but the differences are lessening with each new generation of consoles.charmingcharlie
Urgggh I hate this line of thinking, why on earth should I be "thankful" that a company wants to sell me something ? I am not thankful that Zanussi sold me a fridge, I am not thankful to Toshiba for selling me a TV. They wanted my money and they sold me something to get my money. They should be thankful I decided to spend my money on THEIR products rather than go with at least half a dozen other competitors.
It should be the same way with the software industry, Bioware are making the game on the PC because they KNOW they will make money from it. I mean are you seriously deluded enough to think they are doing it as some sort of "favour" to the PC platform ? If they were not 100% certain that they can make a pretty decent profit on the PC then there would be no Dragons Age 2 or Mass Effect 3. So firstly stop fooling yourself that they are doing you a "favour" by making a product for you to buy.
I have already decided not to buy Dragon Age 2 or Mass Effect 3 for several reasons, the first being the $60 price tag (why should PC gamers pay the same as console gamers when there is no royalty fee on the PC), the unavailability of their products on steam, the nickle and diming of content and the exclusive bull they are now pulling with ME 2 on the PS3. No I don't feel "thankful" that they are supporting the PC, I feel they should up their game and start earning my money if they want me to buy their products.
As if an altruistic video gaming company exists. BioWare wants to make a profit just like anyone else, but it IS supporting the PC by releasing exclusive, high-budget titles like The Old Republic, so yes, I do think it's doing the PC a 'favour', since there are plenty of companies that WOULD make a profit with their games on PC but decide NOT to release them; that is why I believe we should be thankful instead of equipping ourselves with a far-out sense of entitlement, because the truth is, gaming can survive just fine WITHOUT the PC. As a PC gamer, you should be thankful, instead of entitled, if not as a customer. They should be thankful that you buy their product too.Who's talking about cutting anything. They developed an extra quest and an extra NPC while developing the rest of the game. That quest and that NPC are being offered as DLC or a pre-order incentive. That doesn't mean that it was cut. It's impossible to say if they would still have invested the money in creating that extra quest and that extra NPC if they wasn't planning to release it as DLC. Them having to make money or not is irrelevant. Who, what or where the quest and NPC was developed is also irrelevant. Consider what they are offering for what amount of money they are asking and make your choice based on that.[QUOTE="Mazoch"][QUOTE="Bladecutter56"]
Woah woah woah woah woah woah woah. Woah. Woooah. Woah.
PC Games cost $10 more now? What the hell? That was something I liked, that they didn't cost $60 like console games suddenly did.
Also, Pre-order content is fine. But purposely cutting out content to release later as DLC just to make more money isn't. You can tell me "BUT DEY HAZ 2 MAEK MONIES KOZ DEY R A BIZZEYNESS1!1one" all you like. They made plenty of money before DLC and they would certainly make plenty of money if it was never even thought of.
GeneralShowzer
Ofcourse they cut out content to sell as DLC.
DA:O, i can bet had loads of content cut out. There as day one DLC, and **** of DLC released after, while the team was busy working on DA II. Can you explain that. It was five years in development, waaay before DLC became *In*.
Also Mafia II had obviosly content cut from it.
Aha... so can you prove that that would be in the game in the first place if they wouldn't have charged for it. Course not, but great work at ignoring his argument.As if an altruistic video gaming company exists. BioWare wants to make a profit just like anyone else, but it IS supporting the PC by releasing exclusive, high-budget titles like The Old Republic, so yes, I do think it's doing the PC a 'favour', since there are plenty of companies that WOULD make a profit with their games on PC but decide NOT to release them; that is why I believe we should be thankful instead of equipping ourselves with a far-out sense of entitlement, because the truth is, gaming can survive just fine WITHOUT the PC. As a PC gamer, you should be thankful, instead of entitled, if not as a customer. They should be thankful that you buy their product too.SkyWard20
Then you are deluded, why do you think Bioware is releasing their games on the PC ? oh yeah it's because they know they can make money. Why do you think Bioware are doing The Old Republic MMO ? oh yeah it's because Blizzard are making $1 billion a year from WOW on the PC. Seriously I mean come on here they are not doing this as a "favour" to the PC they are doing it because they want a slice of that $1 billion Blizzard are getting.
There was nothing about "entitlement" in my post, if Bioware want my money they better damn well earn it rather than relying on me going "oh thank you thank you I am so grateful". Tell me if you want your wages at the end of the week do you have to WORK for your money or is the employer just eternally grateful that you just showed up for work ? You say we shouldn't show entitlement but you seem to be under the impression that it is ok for companies to be entitled to our money no matter what they do as long as they do it on the PC.
As for the games industry surviving without the PC, I am sure it will but I am equally sure the PC would survive without Bioware as well. I am a consumer with a spine if a company like Bioware wants my money then they better work for it and produce a product I want to buy, how I want to buy it and at a price I want to pay. That is how a consumer society works, that is the attitude I take with everything I buy be it food, fridges or luxury items that I do not need such as video games. The games industry would be in a much better shape if gamers stopped just accepting all the bull that publishers shove their way under the guise that they should be "thankful" that the game was made for them.
[QUOTE="topsemag55"]
Doesn't bother me, I pre-ordered the game.
Extra incentive being added to buy new - nothing wrong with that. Geez, any business does something to get people in the door when a new product comes out.
ralph2190
You, SkyWard and me...that makes 3 of us in the GS forums lol
Yeah, and after it gets a 9.0 - 9.5 Editor's Choice, there will be a rush of buyers.:lol:
I can't wait to run a rogue with the new capabilities.:o
Omg, after I saw the video showing Mike Laidlaw presenting on-the-fly melee then paused melee, I was stoked.:D
[QUOTE="SkyWard20"] As if an altruistic video gaming company exists. BioWare wants to make a profit just like anyone else, but it IS supporting the PC by releasing exclusive, high-budget titles like The Old Republic, so yes, I do think it's doing the PC a 'favour', since there are plenty of companies that WOULD make a profit with their games on PC but decide NOT to release them; that is why I believe we should be thankful instead of equipping ourselves with a far-out sense of entitlement, because the truth is, gaming can survive just fine WITHOUT the PC. As a PC gamer, you should be thankful, instead of entitled, if not as a customer. They should be thankful that you buy their product too.charmingcharlie
Then you are deluded, why do you think Bioware is releasing their games on the PC ? oh yeah it's because they know they can make money. Why do you think Bioware are doing The Old Republic MMO ? oh yeah it's because Blizzard are making $1 billion a year from WOW on the PC. Seriously I mean come on here they are not doing this as a "favour" to the PC they are doing it because they want a slice of that $1 billion Blizzard are getting.
There was nothing about "entitlement" in my post, if Bioware want my money they better damn well earn it rather than relying on me going "oh thank you thank you I am so grateful". Tell me if you want your wages at the end of the week do you have to WORK for your money or is the employer just eternally grateful that you just showed up for work ? You say we shouldn't show entitlement but you seem to be under the impression that it is ok for companies to be entitled to our money no matter what they do as long as they do it on the PC.
As for the games industry surviving without the PC, I am sure it will but I am equally sure the PC would survive without Bioware as well. I am a consumer with a spine if a company like Bioware wants my money then they better work for it and produce a product I want to buy, how I want to buy it and at a price I want to pay. That is how a consumer society works, that is the attitude I take with everything I buy be it food, fridges or luxury items that I do not need such as video games. The games industry would be in a much better shape if gamers stopped just accepting all the bull that publishers shove their way under the guise that they should be "thankful" that the game was made for them.
Uh, yeah, companies want to profit. Who would have thought? There's more to making games than simple profit though: people who are geniunely interested in the quality of their game.I'm not saying it's something they would do willingly for free, to support PC gaming. But REGARDLESS of BioWare's 'evil' intentions, they ARE supporting PC gaming, and no one's really forcing them to. Look at all the developers who get by without porting games to the PC. PC gaming does not need BioWare... and BioWare does not need PC gaming. I don't understand the disagreement we're having.
And BioWare has already earned my being thankful because there's nothing I look forward to more when I think of games except one of BioWare's future titles.
IF however, it wouldn't be profitable... they wouldn't be doing it; that much is obvious. So of course I believe PC gaming is profitable for them.
I'm not saying it's something they would do willingly for free, to support PC gaming. But REGARDLESS of BioWare's 'evil' intentions, they ARE supporting PC gaming, and no one's really forcing them to. Look at all the developers who get by without porting games to the PC. PC gaming does not need BioWare... and BioWare does not need PC gaming. I don't understand the disagreement we're having.And BioWare has already earned my being thankful because there's nothing I look forward to more when I think of games except one of BioWare's future titles.
IF however, it wouldn't be profitable... they wouldn't be doing it; that much is obvious. So of course I believe PC gaming is profitable for them.
SkyWard20
I never for a minute said Bioware had "evil" intentions they are NOT supporting PC gaming they are a multiplatform company producing games for all platforms because it makes them money. Indeed no one is forcing them to make PC games, no one is forcing them to make console games either. In fact no one is forcing them to do anything they do it because they want to make money end of story. They are not doing PC games as a "favour" and so we should be "thankful" they are doing it because they can make money out of us, that is not evil that is how it works but why should I be thankful ? I mean do you go around the house every day thinking "oh thank god they decided to make my tv I am so grateful" ?
As for other companies not making PC games so we should be thankful for those companies that do make PC games. Well last time I checked there were a hell of a lot more companies making PC games than companies not making PC games. I still don't see why I should be "thankful" though just because a few developers (and it is a few) make the mistake of thinking they can't make money on the PC does not mean I should be thankful to developers that bring their game to the PC.
We are having this disagreement because you seem to have such little faith in the PC platform that we should be grateful for every little scrap that some developers like Bioware throw us. Bioware are not doing you any favours by making a PC game, they produce a product and you buy it I see no reason why you should be thankful just because they produced something for you to buy. As I said before I am not thankful to the company that built my fridge, TV, toaster or oven and I can tell you now I would miss those things a hell of a lot more than some luxury video game.
Now you are obviously a Bioware fan (nothing wrong with that) but I am not. If a company does not produce a product I want to buy then guess what I won't buy it and pulling dick moves like EA and Bioware are doing make me less inclined to purchase their products. I feel no reason to be "thankful" to them they are not meeting my wants or needs so they don't get my money, it is that simple.
The reason they cut out content is to give an incentive to pre order the game. Quite a few developers do this, I however do not support this method and have long since abandoned the high budget AAA market for most of the part. Vote with your money, if you dont approve of this, dont buy it. 60 dollars, no mod tools, consolized gameplay along with the fact that Bioware are making it are the reasons I am not getting this game.
Skyward, Stardock was once considered to be rather altruistic, there are a few other companies I have yet to complain about as well. Telltale games seems to treat its customers well so far and doesnt cut content from the disk to sell it later, unlike Bioware.
Now you are obviously a Bioware fan (nothing wrong with that) but I am not. If a company does not produce a product I want to buy then guess what I won't buy it and pulling dick moves like EA and Bioware are doing make me less inclined to purchase their products. I feel no reason to be "thankful" to them they are not meeting my wants or needs so they don't get my money, it is that simple.charmingcharlieI'm a bit of a Bioware fan too, and yeah - your reasons for disliking all of this are valid. You don't like the $60 price tag, you don't like the 1 month Steam delay (and I HATE it), and you probably don't like their games all that much to make up for putting up with things like the first two.
I'm not sure what the exclusive / PS3 thing is, though. The only 'exclusive' thing that I know of so far for the PS3 is the interactive comic, and it's supposed to replace ME1. Not really something I care about at all.
omg. did you read any of the thread - stuff like that is not cut out. it otherwise would *not be in the game* if it weren't DLC.The reason they cut out content is to give an incentive to pre order the game. Quite a few developers do this, I however do not support this method and have long since abandoned the high budget AAA market for most of the part. Vote with your money, if you dont approve of this, dont buy it. 60 dollars, no mod tools, consolized gameplay along with the fact that Bioware are making it are the reasons I am not getting this game.
Maroxad
[QUOTE="Maroxad"]
The reason they cut out content is to give an incentive to pre order the game. Quite a few developers do this, I however do not support this method and have long since abandoned the high budget AAA market for most of the part. Vote with your money, if you dont approve of this, dont buy it. 60 dollars, no mod tools, consolized gameplay along with the fact that Bioware are making it are the reasons I am not getting this game.
Makari
omg. did you read any of the thread - stuff like that is not cut out. it otherwise would *not be in the game* if it weren't DLC.
Umm yes, I did read the thread, and I read another one in System Wars about the same thing.
They are cutting out content from the game, people that pre order the game before Jan 11th gets it for free while those who buy it or preorders it at a later date will have to buy the content they "cut out".
I'm a bit of a Bioware fan too, and yeah - your reasons for disliking all of this are valid. You don't like the $60 price tag, you don't like the 1 month Steam delay (and I HATE it), and you probably don't like their games all that much to make up for putting up with things like the first two.I'm not sure what the exclusive / PS3 thing is, though. The only 'exclusive' thing that I know of so far for the PS3 is the interactive comic, and it's supposed to replace ME1. Not really something I care about at all.Makari
I am not trying to rag on Bioware fans, if you are a fan of Bioware then naturally you are going to be a lot more accepting of certain practices than I am. I once considered myself a "Mass Effect fan". However all the bull that Bioware has been pulling soon kicked that out of me. I was all set to pre-order ME 3 but right now I do not feel like purchasing ME 3 at all.
As for the exclusive content, there are going to be several PS3 "exclusive" packs the first being the Terminus + Blackstorm gun pack which is not going to be offered to PC/360 users. Now whilst the content does not seem much, to me it is the principle of the thing. I am a Mass Effect 2 customer, I have sunk nearly $200 into the Mass Effect franchise. Now all of a sudden my money is not good enough for them because I am on the PC, that has left a pretty bad taste in my mouth. The message seems pretty damn clear to me that they are no longer interested in my money so that is up to them and I will take my money elsewhere.
Who's talking about cutting anything. They developed an extra quest and an extra NPC while developing the rest of the game. That quest and that NPC are being offered as DLC or a pre-order incentive. That doesn't mean that it was cut. It's impossible to say if they would still have invested the money in creating that extra quest and that extra NPC if they wasn't planning to release it as DLC. Them having to make money or not is irrelevant. Who, what or where the quest and NPC was developed is also irrelevant. Consider what they are offering for what amount of money they are asking and make your choice based on that.[QUOTE="Mazoch"][QUOTE="Bladecutter56"]
Woah woah woah woah woah woah woah. Woah. Woooah. Woah.
PC Games cost $10 more now? What the hell? That was something I liked, that they didn't cost $60 like console games suddenly did.
Also, Pre-order content is fine. But purposely cutting out content to release later as DLC just to make more money isn't. You can tell me "BUT DEY HAZ 2 MAEK MONIES KOZ DEY R A BIZZEYNESS1!1one" all you like. They made plenty of money before DLC and they would certainly make plenty of money if it was never even thought of.
GeneralShowzer
Ofcourse they cut out content to sell as DLC.
DA:O, i can bet had loads of content cut out. There as day one DLC, and **** of DLC released after, while the team was busy working on DA II. Can you explain that. It was five years in development, waaay before DLC became *In*.
Also Mafia II had obviosly content cut from it.
Why 'of course'. It doesn't seem like a logical assumption to me. Consider that BioWare is a major development studio working on a major title; I would assume that they are professional enough to plan ahead and decide well in advance what DLC they are planning to release. I can't imagine that they would simply sit down and develop a game and then, after the fact suddenly decide to go back and make various code changes so they could pull out part of that content to be able to add it as DLC.
It seems far more likely to me that they, from day one, decided that they were going to budget X amount of money and man power to develop the game and budgeted Y amount of money and manpower to develop the launch DLC and Z money and manpower for the pre-order DLC and so on.
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