Blizzard is an overrated game developer imo.

[QUOTE="Mograine"]

Overrated?

And what do you think their place should be, with games like Warcrafts, Diablos and Starcraft?

shakmaster13

Diablo and Starcraft are pretty overrated. Great games, but not as mindblowing that the blizzard fanboys, which are almost as bad as apple fanboys, would want you to belive. WC3 is the best game Blizzard has made so far.

I agree(except, I haven't played Diablo yet, but WC3 is much better than SC)

[QUOTE="shakmaster13"]

[QUOTE="Mograine"]

Overrated?

And what do you think their place should be, with games like Warcrafts, Diablos and Starcraft?

Phoenix534

Diablo and Starcraft are pretty overrated. Great games, but not as mindblowing that the blizzard fanboys, which are almost as bad as apple fanboys, would want you to belive. WC3 is the best game Blizzard has made so far.

I agree(except, I haven't played Diablo yet, but WC3 is much better than SC)

You should get started on diablo :P

And yeah even though WC3 didn't have the balance of SC, it was much more fun since it was an RTS/RPG hybrid and placed more emphasis on keeping units alive.

So valve is hiring people with talent as opposed to losing them(blizzard)?

shakmaster13

[QUOTE="Phoenix534"]

[QUOTE="shakmaster13"]

Diablo and Starcraft are pretty overrated. Great games, but not as mindblowing that the blizzard fanboys, which are almost as bad as apple fanboys, would want you to belive. WC3 is the best game Blizzard has made so far.

shakmaster13

I agree(except, I haven't played Diablo yet, but WC3 is much better than SC)

You should get started on diablo :P

And yeah even though WC3 didn't have the balance of SC, it was much more fun since it was an RTS/RPG hybrid and placed more emphasis on keeping units alive.

I'm definetly getting Diablo. Hope to get teh battle Chest pretty soon.

Yeah okay, "cheating" wasn't the right word, and I did try to clarify that this wasn't a bad thing. I'm just saying Valve's relatively more prolific productivity that Blizzard was due to their more aggressive assimilation of good ideas and talented people from such places as the modding community, whereas Blizzard has pretty much operated with the same system throughout. People may change, but the system is pretty much the same.madrocketeer

I also just wanted to note that Valve currently employs 190 people whereas Blizzard employs 3500. Valve made more games because they wanted to, Gabe hired new people because he saw merit in their ideas (I assume you are familiar with the Narbacular Drop story - someone from Valve showed it to Gabe who called up the students and offered them jobs on the spot). Blizzard hired people by the truckload only to have them toil away on World of Warcraft. In my mind, not only is the Valve system "not a bad thing", it is one of the very few commendable game industry systems (hiring creative modders and students with fresh ideas and empowering them by making their visions a reality). It's a system that should be celebrated and encouraged, not used as any sort of excuse.

[QUOTE="shakmaster13"]

So valve is hiring people with talent as opposed to losing them(blizzard)?

madrocketeer

Well other than WoW, they haven't made any real game with anybody new. The lead designer from SC is the same guy from the BFME series. I mean the BFME series were fun and all, but played totally different than SC and the balance between the factions was just not there. I think alot of people who loved the older blizzard games will be disappointed. How many of the people who made diablo are still at blizzard? The game is just going to be a graphical upgrade with a few classes tossed in. Neither SC2 nor D3 will be make huge improvements to their respective genres because they are losing their creative edge.

Seeing as all the games they've produced are hailed as best in the genre (which is odd, since they have two RTSes that both claim the same king of the RTS title), they deserve every lick of attention they are given.

people mock Valve for being slow at making games, even going so far as to coin the phrase "valve time", and yet Blizzard make Valve look postively speedy at making games. Blizzard get too much coverage for producing so few games. When they finally arrive they may be good, but in the last 5 years they have made 1 game? If you like WoW then great, but for the millions that don't Blizzard have made nothing new for them to play.Avenger1324

[QUOTE="Avenger1324"]people mock Valve for being slow at making games, even going so far as to coin the phrase "valve time", and yet Blizzard make Valve look postively speedy at making games. Blizzard get too much coverage for producing so few games. When they finally arrive they may be good, but in the last 5 years they have made 1 game? If you like WoW then great, but for the millions that don't Blizzard have made nothing new for them to play.pvtdonut54

[QUOTE="pvtdonut54"]

[QUOTE="Avenger1324"]people mock Valve for being slow at making games, even going so far as to coin the phrase "valve time", and yet Blizzard make Valve look postively speedy at making games. Blizzard get too much coverage for producing so few games. When they finally arrive they may be good, but in the last 5 years they have made 1 game? If you like WoW then great, but for the millions that don't Blizzard have made nothing new for them to play.Grodus5

Make a note that probably more than 60% of those, are Koreans.

@shakmaster

:lol:

I guess all the people that make Starcraft still one of the most played games online after 11 YEARS since its release are just mindless Blizzard fanboys enslaved by the skyshattering 2D graphics who deny any other RTS's merits with no reason, right :lol: ?

@phoenix

"Make a note that probably more than 60% of those, are Koreans. "

Right.

So what?

@shakmaster

:lol:

I guess all the people that make Starcraft still one of the most played games online after 11 YEARS since its release are just mindless Blizzard fanboys enslaved by the skyshattering 2D graphics who deny any other RTS's merits with no reason, right :lol: ?

@phoenix

"Make a note that probably more than 60% of those, are Koreans. "

Right.

So what?

Mograine

Most of the people who play starcraft are koreans, and they have different tastes in games than the rest of the world ie grindfest MMOs. And the gameplay has one huge flaw. It's based purely on rush tactics, there is no strategy involved in the multiplayer at all, it all comes down to ones skill at rushing their opponent. WC3 is a much more enjoyable experience IMO.

Well other than WoW, they haven't made any real game with anybody new. The lead designer from SC is the same guy from the BFME series. I mean the BFME series were fun and all, but played totally different than SC and the balance between the factions was just not there. I think alot of people who loved the older blizzard games will be disappointed. How many of the people who made diablo are still at blizzard? The game is just going to be a graphical upgrade with a few classes tossed in. Neither SC2 nor D3 will be make huge improvements to their respective genres because they are losing their creative edge.

shakmaster13

[QUOTE="Mograine"]

@shakmaster

:lol:

I guess all the people that make Starcraft still one of the most played games online after 11 YEARS since its release are just mindless Blizzard fanboys enslaved by the skyshattering 2D graphics who deny any other RTS's merits with no reason, right :lol: ?

@phoenix

"Make a note that probably more than 60% of those, are Koreans. "

Right.

So what?

shakmaster13

Most of the people who play starcraft are koreans, and they have different tastes in games than the rest of the world ie grindfest MMOs. And the gameplay has one huge flaw. It's based purely on rush tactics, there is no strategy involved in the multiplayer at all, it all comes down to ones skill at rushing their opponent. WC3 is a much more enjoyable experience IMO.

:lol: Obviously you've never actually been skilled at RTS games. Nor do you know the basics of strategy. And saying SC is a rush fest and WC3 isn't it? Hah.

[QUOTE="Mograine"]

Overrated?

And what do you think their place should be, with games like Warcrafts, Diablos and Starcraft?

shakmaster13

Diablo and Starcraft are pretty overrated. Great games, but not as mindblowing that the blizzard fanboys, which are almost as bad as apple fanboys, would want you to belive. WC3 is the best game Blizzard has made so far.

Most of the people who play starcraft are koreans, and they have different tastes in games than the rest of the world ie grindfest MMOs. And the gameplay has one huge flaw. It's based purely on rush tactics, there is no strategy involved in the multiplayer at all, it all comes down to ones skill at rushing their opponent. WC3 is a much more enjoyable experience IMO.

shakmaster13

/facepalm

Ok, whatever you want.

You have openly declarated you know nothing about the multiplayer and call "one huge flaw" the hard spanking you received before giving up the game in rage, there's no point in arguing with you.

And you even have the guts of saying SC and Diablo aren't as good as people tell you they are. Meh.

People pay too much attention to blizzard I think.

Don't get me wrong. Blizzard is a very good game developer. but there are many companies that mostly create good games,but people don't pay attention to them as much as Blizzard. of course you may ask ,then why blizzard gets so much love and others don't? well I say, god blessed Blizzard.;)

herzalot

See the sell numbers: It's hard to fin a company capable to hit 10, 15, 10, 11 million units as Blizzard in Starcraft, Diablo II LOD, Warcraft III, World Of Warcraft.

See the endurance and popularity. It's hard to see any game capable to beat WoW, Warcaft II and Diablo II numbers in xfire, and no one is capable to last so long. Gameplay and adictivity in their games is at light years from most of his competence.

See the Blizzard cinematics. They turn the most crazy unbeliable best cutscenes from Square-Enix, Capcom or Namco, or or even Blur and DIGIC into pale shadows of their work.

No more examples needed. Blizzard is miles ahead of his enviroment.

overrated? definitely. They make good games, but their fan boys are incredibly fanatic. Calling starcraft or warcraft 3 the "best" of the genre is nonsense. They were/are fun to some degree, but their outdated gameplay system and prolonged play = boring experience. Most fans disagree due to the fact that they've mastered the games and are able to beat anyone. I've had more fun with Battle realms, company of heroes, sacrifice (especially sacrifice, a game that completely destroys any blizzard game) and Dawn of war series.

Slightly overrated, they are good, indeed they are, but I fail to see why they are better then most other devs mentioned.

I generally like the blizz games, altho they havent made once since the year 2000 I liked (my taste, not meaning the games they made was bad).

I eagerly await SC2 butI do not think It will be anywhere near as impactful as WC2 was back in the day for me.

They are amongst the top tier devs without a doubt ^^

The thing is why I think alot of people like Blizzard (not just because most of their games pwn) is they still support there games for years and years. If EA/Relic (especially) could do that their games would be more popular. For Relic it takes like 4+ months (over a year for the CoH patch). EA just stops supporting their games pretty quickly and as far as I know that hasn't changed. Its what separates blizzard from them (and they take a hell of a lot of time to make sure the game is good). If Relic supported there games like Blizzard they would be very popular just because CoH/Dow are both very fun RTS games and if they just patched them more/added content, etc I could see it having alot more attention and crap. Fun games but the imbalances get annoying after awhile.blade55555

Of course Blizzard is overrated. Just look at all the Blizzard butt kissing going on from Gamespot reporters. Blizzard must have some big checks flying this way.

@shakmaster

:lol:

I guess all the people that make Starcraft still one of the most played games online after 11 YEARS since its release are just mindless Blizzard fanboys enslaved by the skyshattering 2D graphics who deny any other RTS's merits with no reason, right :lol: ?

@phoenix

"Make a note that probably more than 60% of those, are Koreans. "

Right.

So what?

Of course Blizzard is overrated. Just look at all the Blizzard butt kissing going on from Gamespot reporters. Blizzard must have some big checks flying this way.

Tauu

Must be a conspiracy...

OR they create incredible games and have millions of fans.

Right now there are millions of people playing their games.

How many game developers can say that? 3 maybe 4 in the world?

Face it, they are a giant in the industry and earned their reputation for quality.

They are a strong developer. I just have no interest in this MMO thing and I think a lot of people will be pleased when they refocus on non-MMO titles like SC2, Diablo 3 and I hope someday, maybe, somewhere, Warcraft IV - Warcraft 3 is still one of the few RTS games with a genuinely compelling and cinematic narrative. biggest_loser

If they announce Warcraft IV, Blizzard will automatcially become my favorite developer. Warcraft III is a masterpiece and the best RTS I've ever played.

[QUOTE="biggest_loser"]They are a strong developer. I just have no interest in this MMO thing and I think a lot of people will be pleased when they refocus on non-MMO titles like SC2, Diablo 3 and I hope someday, maybe, somewhere, Warcraft IV - Warcraft 3 is still one of the few RTS games with a genuinely compelling and cinematic narrative. Phoenix534

If they announce Warcraft IV, Blizzard will automatcially become my favorite developer. Warcraft III is a masterpiece and the best RTS I've ever played.

They are a strong developer. I just have no interest in this MMO thing and I think a lot of people will be pleased when they refocus on non-MMO titles like SC2, Diablo 3 and I hope someday, maybe, somewhere, Warcraft IV - Warcraft 3 is still one of the few RTS games with a genuinely compelling and cinematic narrative. biggest_loser

I wouldn't hold my hopes high about WC4. Not as long as WoW is still alive, at least.

And even after that, if they continue from WoW's end the lore would be so ravaged there wouldn't be a point in it anymore. If they continue from TFT's ending, thou....

Also, I hope SC2 and D3 make a clash like their predecessors' releases did. The PC really needs new standards to stop the devs' whining about money and piracy and to move their focus from consoles, imho :roll:

[QUOTE="shakmaster13"]

[QUOTE="Mograine"]

@shakmaster

:lol:

I guess all the people that make Starcraft still one of the most played games online after 11 YEARS since its release are just mindless Blizzard fanboys enslaved by the skyshattering 2D graphics who deny any other RTS's merits with no reason, right :lol: ?

@phoenix

"Make a note that probably more than 60% of those, are Koreans. "

Right.

So what?

KHAndAnime

Most of the people who play starcraft are koreans, and they have different tastes in games than the rest of the world ie grindfest MMOs. And the gameplay has one huge flaw. It's based purely on rush tactics, there is no strategy involved in the multiplayer at all, it all comes down to ones skill at rushing their opponent. WC3 is a much more enjoyable experience IMO.

:lol: Obviously you've never actually been skilled at RTS games. Nor do you know the basics of strategy. And saying SC is a rush fest and WC3 isn't it? Hah.

Not skilled at RTS games? Maybe compared to people who play games more than an hour or two a day, but I win my fair share of matches in the RTS games that I play. The reason I call SC a rushfest is because the single player is overly long, and has little to no replay value, so the weight of the game falls to its multiplayer which is a complete rush fest. At least WC3 employed an incredibly amazing narrative which has me coming back to it, and DotA is simply incredible. All SC has going for it is multiplayer, and the game doesn't require too much strategy. Now I'm not saying SC is a bad game, for it is a great game. But it is not nearly as godly as many here would put it plain and simple.

Not skilled at RTS games? Maybe compared to people who play games more than an hour or two a day, but I win my fair share of matches in the RTS games that I play. The reason I call SC a rushfest is because the single player is overly long, and has little to no replay value, so the weight of the game falls to its multiplayer which is a complete rush fest. At least WC3 employed an incredibly amazing narrative which has me coming back to it, and DotA is simply incredible. All SC has going for it is multiplayer, and the game doesn't require too much strategy. Now I'm not saying SC is a bad game, for it is a great game. But it is not nearly as godly as many here would put it plain and simple.

shakmaster13

I can't stop laughing, you are simply too clueless :lol:

[QUOTE="KHAndAnime"]

[QUOTE="shakmaster13"]

Most of the people who play starcraft are koreans, and they have different tastes in games than the rest of the world ie grindfest MMOs. And the gameplay has one huge flaw. It's based purely on rush tactics, there is no strategy involved in the multiplayer at all, it all comes down to ones skill at rushing their opponent. WC3 is a much more enjoyable experience IMO.

shakmaster13

:lol: Obviously you've never actually been skilled at RTS games. Nor do you know the basics of strategy. And saying SC is a rush fest and WC3 isn't it? Hah.

Not skilled at RTS games? Maybe compared to people who play games more than an hour or two a day, but I win my fair share of matches in the RTS games that I play. The reason I call SC a rushfest is because the single player is overly long, and has little to no replay value, so the weight of the game falls to its multiplayer which is a complete rush fest. At least WC3 employed an incredibly amazing narrative which has me coming back to it, and DotA is simply incredible. All SC has going for it is multiplayer, and the game doesn't require too much strategy. Now I'm not saying SC is a bad game, for it is a great game. But it is not nearly as godly as many here would put it plain and simple.

imo, definitely yes, Blizzard is an overrated one trick pony that hasn't come with anything new for a decade. what's even more disgusting is the fans who would suck up to Blizzballs and turn around accusing every other devs as "unoriginal" and "killing the industry". i facepalm on this joke so hard i think my cheek is bleeding.

imo, definitely yes, Blizzard is an overrated one trick pony that hasn't come with anything new for a decade. what's even more disgusting is the fans who would suck up to Blizzballs and turn around accusing every other devs as "unoriginal" and "killing the industry". i facepalm on this joke so hard i think my cheek is bleeding.

Jinroh_basic

Where have you heard such a ridiculous claim?
It's the first time I hear of it.

I don't think they're overrated (Warcraft 3 is the bomb) but they don't deserve the attention they get, I think Relic is better.mo0ksi

[QUOTE="Jinroh_basic"]

imo, definitely yes, Blizzard is an overrated one trick pony that hasn't come with anything new for a decade. what's even more disgusting is the fans who would suck up to Blizzballs and turn around accusing every other devs as "unoriginal" and "killing the industry". i facepalm on this joke so hard i think my cheek is bleeding.

Mograine

Where have you heard such a ridiculous claim?
It's the first time I hear of it.

stick around and you'll see. ;)

everything with a Blizzard tag automatically gets a free pass from the fans - which is pretty much the entire community. lack of originality is "sticking to the winning formula"; lack of titles is "replay value"; rehashed content is "if it ain't broken don't fix"; ridiculous delay is "commitment to quality". guess what the bozos will say to other studios and franchises with similar problems?

Games don't need to do anything new to be good.

[QUOTE="Mograine"]

[QUOTE="Jinroh_basic"]

imo, definitely yes, Blizzard is an overrated one trick pony that hasn't come with anything new for a decade. what's even more disgusting is the fans who would suck up to Blizzballs and turn around accusing every other devs as "unoriginal" and "killing the industry". i facepalm on this joke so hard i think my cheek is bleeding.

Jinroh_basic

Where have you heard such a ridiculous claim?
It's the first time I hear of it.

stick around and you'll see. ;)

everything with a Blizzard tag automatically gets a free pass from the fans - which is pretty much the entire community. lack of originality is "sticking to the winning formula"; lack of titles is "replay value"; rehashed content is "if it ain't broken don't fix"; ridiculous delay is "commitment to quality". guess what the bozos will say to other studios and franchises with similar problems?

They consistently release great, stable, easy to pick up/hard to master games that can run virtually on anything and usually have both strong single player and multiplayer. How many other developers can achieve that?

I am not sure if they are the most creative developer in the world but I always felt that their games were different enough from each other to warrant merit;

Diablo II had better gameplay than Diablo I

StarCraft was a better game than WarCraft II

WarCraft III played rather differently that StarCraft or WarCraft II.

Maybe there are developers that can beat them in some categories but they never achieve such range and consistency as Blizzard has.

everything with a Blizzard tag automatically gets a free pass from the fans - which is pretty much the entire community. lack of originality is "sticking to the winning formula"; lack of titles is "replay value"; rehashed content is "if it ain't broken don't fix"; ridiculous delay is "commitment to quality". guess what the bozos will say to other studios and franchises with similar problems?

Jinroh_basic

While I don't really understand what has "lack of titles" to do with "replay value" since Blizzard's not the only dev in the PC gaming industry and people still prefers their games over new ones, I think for most of Blizzard's fans it isn't really "stick to the winning formula" or "if it ain't broken don't fix it", it's "you can't improve perfection *without taking risks*", and I agree with the delays part :roll:

Nevertheless, where did you get "lack of originality" and "rehashed content"?

As far as I know they are taking a lot of risks(korean testers are already whining about it :lol: ) by adding so many new units in SC2, and D3's content should be rather "original" because of its own unique nature, without even considering that now they also support a full 3D environment and brand new gameplay mechanics, did you expect games that had nothing in common with their predecessors to call them original?

No, Blizzard is underrated.

i don't get why can't bliizzard make a new game not base off the pervious franchise. i mean they got the money. why not use it to make different genre games?

No, Blizzard is underrated.

Tuzolord

That's not possible.