Deepest PC Game Of All Time?

[QUOTE="_rpg_FAN"][QUOTE="runtime211"]

Even though I probably wouldn't pick it normally, I'll pick Halo: Combat Evolved out of spite towards those haters who insist that its a crappy game and a lame story. It's one of the best video game stories *ever* and the universe is very well thought out - deep, as the thread title asks.

Also, is it really that hard to have proper grammar and spelling? It's not too little voice actors, its "too few" voice acters. A quantity uses more or fewer, a magnitude uses little and much.

Doom_HellKnight

Lol im starting to lose faith...

Bringing in the fluff to "complement" the poor storytelling in the games is always a weak argument. Hell even when you go in that direction Dawn of War utterly crushes Halo with the mountains of fluff in the WH40K universe.

Bringing in the fluff to "complement" the poor storytelling in the games is always a weak argument. Hell even when you go in that direction Dawn of War utterly crushes Halo with the mountains of fluff in the WH40K universe.DucksBrains

What do you mean by "fluff"? I don't get what you're saying, although it seems to be attacking Halo.

[QUOTE="DucksBrains"]Bringing in the fluff to "complement" the poor storytelling in the games is always a weak argument. Hell even when you go in that direction Dawn of War utterly crushes Halo with the mountains of fluff in the WH40K universe.runtime211

What do you mean by "fluff"? I don't get what you're saying, although it seems to be attacking Halo.

Fluff - Stories and content relating to the game universe.

Just curious what everyone's opinion is.

I choose BGII:SoA
Zythyl

that was my first choice after reading topic title, funny you chose it.

SoA is one of the thickest games ever, but Morrowind can get pretty everlasting too.

edit: seriously, Halo? how long will people say this game is good, when it's nothing more than arcade shooting, just boring

WoWeTrace

trolling, anyone?

[QUOTE="eTrace"]WoWportujoel5

trolling, anyone?

Warcraft universe is complex and deep,so was wow before BC

Halo: Combat Evolved. biggest_loser

No.

Aliens destroying universe is not "deep". It's a generic plot for a lot of games. As is terrorists, demons/evil-incarnate(w/e) and pretty much 99% of everything else.

No.

Aliens destroying universe is not "deep". It's a generic plot for a lot of games. As is terrorists, demons/evil-incarnate(w/e) and pretty much 99% of everything else.astri_14

Halo did it right. It doesn't matter if it's been done ten times or a thousand times. That's irrelevant. Not to mention that, as you said, every single story has been redone in some way or another many times, so if you want to be picky about originality, then you'd eliminate just about every good game that exists.

THE WINNER FOR THE DEEPEST PC GAME OF ALL TIME IS:

Gothic

IL-2 Sturmovik.....this is the ONLY game i couldn't quite figure out in the past ten years.....as such, it has a special place on my heart. would really like to get down and spend some serious time with it someday. :)

[QUOTE="astri_14"]No.

Aliens destroying universe is not "deep". It's a generic plot for a lot of games. As is terrorists, demons/evil-incarnate(w/e) and pretty much 99% of everything else.runtime211

Halo did it right. It doesn't matter if it's been done ten times or a thousand times. That's irrelevant. Not to mention that, as you said, every single story has been redone in some way or another many times, so if you want to be picky about originality, then you'd eliminate just about every good game that exists.

"That's right, Halo 3's biggest flaw is that at it never rises to the level of epic storytelling or gameplay that the premise suggests, even demands. Although I was told time and again there was a war for humanity's fate going on, I certainly never saw any evidence of it. Great stakes are discussed, but never established. I'm supposed to be horrified that the Flood overrun a city, or that most of Africa needs to be bombed to prevent their spread, but since no one actually seems to live there, why should I care? No reference to civilian casualties, or even civilian existence, is ever made, so there's no tragedy in the "glassing" of Africa, just the mild satisfaction that comes from having survived it. It's a little ridiculous seeing what should be the game's climactic encounter being waged on such a small scale. When I besieged the Prophet of Truth's final stronghold, the only resistance I found was six vehicles and eight soliders, for a grand total of fourteen opposing troops. Between vehicles and Marines, I had ten on my side. This is supposed to be the deciding battle for the fate of the galaxy, and it involves less than 25 people?

This problematic lack of scope extends into the game's plot, which is one of the most simplistic stories I've ever seen referred to as being "deep." It attempts to add resonance by placing the central conflict in a religious context: The villain is called a "Prophet", the Elites, aliens who have abandoned the Covenant to team up with humans, are called "Heretics" by the other Covenant troops. Unfortunately, the story doesn't have any of the depth or grey areas that actual religious schisms manifest. In fact, the main conflict of the game is an entirely secular one. Beyond the simple question of whether the Master Chief can stop the Prophet of Truth from destroying the galaxy (spoiler alert: according to the ad campaign, he can), there's no depth or complexity to this conflict. What the Covenant wants is so outlandishly bad that it can't be seen as anything but madness, and the humans have a completely good solution available to them, which, if successful would result in the complete destruction of all their foes and a completely happy ending. There's no hard decisions to be made here, no possibility of being forced to accept the existence of, or even making an agreement with, the Flood. No, all the bad guys are clearly evil, and all of them can be easily defeated in one fell swoop."

http://gamecritics.com/halo-3-review

Fallout (1+2) or Starcraft.

Games are shallow. I like shallow stuff. In fact, I like to think deeply about shallow things, which is why I'm here. Let's embrace the shallowness that are games and love them deeply anyway.augustlight

lol

for story... dunno, KOTOR? haven't played P:T 'tho. started but the game kept crashing on me

for economy/empire building it's X3:reunion

for strategy dunno... not big on strategy games

for atmosphere, dunno Gothic2 maybe? Morrowind?

Halo: Combat Evolved. biggest_loser

I lol'd

Even though I probably wouldn't pick it normally, I'll pick Halo: Combat Evolved out of spite towards those haters who insist that its a crappy game and a lame story. It's one of the best video game stories *ever* and the universe is very well thought out - deep, as the thread title asks.

Also, is it really that hard to have proper grammar and spelling? It's not too little voice actors, its "too few" voice acters. A quantity uses more or fewer, a magnitude uses little and much.

runtime211

that's true .. only game more complex and deep than halo is Oblivion

The Longest Journeyaots_twilight

I second that.

[QUOTE="runtime211"][QUOTE="astri_14"]No.

Aliens destroying universe is not "deep". It's a generic plot for a lot of games. As is terrorists, demons/evil-incarnate(w/e) and pretty much 99% of everything else.DucksBrains

Halo did it right. It doesn't matter if it's been done ten times or a thousand times. That's irrelevant. Not to mention that, as you said, every single story has been redone in some way or another many times, so if you want to be picky about originality, then you'd eliminate just about every good game that exists.

"That's right, Halo 3's biggest flaw is that at it never rises to the level of epic storytelling or gameplay that the premise suggests, even demands. Although I was told time and again there was a war for humanity's fate going on, I certainly never saw any evidence of it. Great stakes are discussed, but never established. I'm supposed to be horrified that the Flood overrun a city, or that most of Africa needs to be bombed to prevent their spread, but since no one actually seems to live there, why should I care? No reference to civilian casualties, or even civilian existence, is ever made, so there's no tragedy in the "glassing" of Africa, just the mild satisfaction that comes from having survived it. It's a little ridiculous seeing what should be the game's climactic encounter being waged on such a small scale. When I besieged the Prophet of Truth's final stronghold, the only resistance I found was six vehicles and eight soliders, for a grand total of fourteen opposing troops. Between vehicles and Marines, I had ten on my side. This is supposed to be the deciding battle for the fate of the galaxy, and it involves less than 25 people?

This problematic lack of scope extends into the game's plot, which is one of the most simplistic stories I've ever seen referred to as being "deep." It attempts to add resonance by placing the central conflict in a religious context: The villain is called a "Prophet", the Elites, aliens who have abandoned the Covenant to team up with humans, are called "Heretics" by the other Covenant troops. Unfortunately, the story doesn't have any of the depth or grey areas that actual religious schisms manifest. In fact, the main conflict of the game is an entirely secular one. Beyond the simple question of whether the Master Chief can stop the Prophet of Truth from destroying the galaxy (spoiler alert: according to the ad campaign, he can), there's no depth or complexity to this conflict. What the Covenant wants is so outlandishly bad that it can't be seen as anything but madness, and the humans have a completely good solution available to them, which, if successful would result in the complete destruction of all their foes and a completely happy ending. There's no hard decisions to be made here, no possibility of being forced to accept the existence of, or even making an agreement with, the Flood. No, all the bad guys are clearly evil, and all of them can be easily defeated in one fell swoop."

http://gamecritics.com/halo-3-review

You served them alright.

I'm going to have to go with Mass Effect or Max Payne, I have yet to play Planescape: Torment and System Shock 2.

[QUOTE="DucksBrains"][QUOTE="runtime211"][QUOTE="astri_14"]No.

Aliens destroying universe is not "deep". It's a generic plot for a lot of games. As is terrorists, demons/evil-incarnate(w/e) and pretty much 99% of everything else.ElectricNZ

Halo did it right. It doesn't matter if it's been done ten times or a thousand times. That's irrelevant. Not to mention that, as you said, every single story has been redone in some way or another many times, so if you want to be picky about originality, then you'd eliminate just about every good game that exists.

"That's right, Halo 3's biggest flaw is that at it never rises to the level of epic storytelling or gameplay that the premise suggests, even demands. Although I was told time and again there was a war for humanity's fate going on, I certainly never saw any evidence of it. Great stakes are discussed, but never established. I'm supposed to be horrified that the Flood overrun a city, or that most of Africa needs to be bombed to prevent their spread, but since no one actually seems to live there, why should I care? No reference to civilian casualties, or even civilian existence, is ever made, so there's no tragedy in the "glassing" of Africa, just the mild satisfaction that comes from having survived it. It's a little ridiculous seeing what should be the game's climactic encounter being waged on such a small scale. When I besieged the Prophet of Truth's final stronghold, the only resistance I found was six vehicles and eight soliders, for a grand total of fourteen opposing troops. Between vehicles and Marines, I had ten on my side. This is supposed to be the deciding battle for the fate of the galaxy, and it involves less than 25 people?

This problematic lack of scope extends into the game's plot, which is one of the most simplistic stories I've ever seen referred to as being "deep." It attempts to add resonance by placing the central conflict in a religious context: The villain is called a "Prophet", the Elites, aliens who have abandoned the Covenant to team up with humans, are called "Heretics" by the other Covenant troops. Unfortunately, the story doesn't have any of the depth or grey areas that actual religious schisms manifest. In fact, the main conflict of the game is an entirely secular one. Beyond the simple question of whether the Master Chief can stop the Prophet of Truth from destroying the galaxy (spoiler alert: according to the ad campaign, he can), there's no depth or complexity to this conflict. What the Covenant wants is so outlandishly bad that it can't be seen as anything but madness, and the humans have a completely good solution available to them, which, if successful would result in the complete destruction of all their foes and a completely happy ending. There's no hard decisions to be made here, no possibility of being forced to accept the existence of, or even making an agreement with, the Flood. No, all the bad guys are clearly evil, and all of them can be easily defeated in one fell swoop."

http://gamecritics.com/halo-3-review

You served them alright.

I'm going to have to go with Mass Effect or Max Payne, I have yet to play Planescape: Torment and System Shock 2.

You better be really into "stories," because Plansecapes graphics looked very dated when it came out.

Nah when I say "deep" I mean a storyline that's both complex and compelling. Something that draws you in and really makes you think you're there.Zythyl

thought that was what you meant - good question

i would imagine RPGs are good for that sort of feeling - i mainly play FPS, but as an RPG/FPS Stalker gave me that feeling to an extent, as did System Shock 2

also the adventure game Blade Runner is very immersive - i remember playing it in the autumn (fall) during dark, rainy days - in other word, just like the game. i'd go out of the house only to feel like i was still in the game

then there's FEAR of course - that was very immersive and the horror-movie parts really gave me the creeps i must say

Bioshock, though not as much as SS2, was quite immersive (no pun intended) in terms of the setting, particularly during the early parts

Wow good replies from everyone...

Nice to see Systemshock 2 and Planescape: Torment mentioned. Was a tad surprised to see Halo floating around and I think I did a little wee in my pants when I read Oblivion was someone's personal deepest gaming experience. Anyhoo... :P
Zythyl

Really?

You served them alright.

[QUOTE="Kentisc"Kill a man and you're a murderer, kill many and you're a conqueror, kill em all and you're GOD !

A Megadeth fan I see.

I was talking about the Halo universe from my experience with Combat Evolved and Halo 2. I never played the Halo 3 campaign. So I can't verify or reject what that web site discussed in terms of Halo 3.

runtime211

Having to drag in the game universe instead of using what is presented in the games themselves only shows how weak your position and argument is.

I'm not going to deny that there are flaws in the story. But there are flaws in every story, if you look hard enough. How the heck do Vortigaunts know English, if they came from galaxies away? And if by some heavenly chance they knew a language of Earth, why would it be English, instead of Italian, German, or Russian?

runtime211

Well obviously between Half-Life 1 and 2 Gordon Freeman has been in Limbo for X amount of years, during that time the course of events have changed Earth drastically. The Vortigaunts? Is it not possible that they learned how to speak human languages during their time on Earth? Furthermore, since the locations you play in have a human populace that speaks (get this it's a real shocker) ENGLISH would it be possible that they learned how to speak ENGLISH during the time that they were living with ENGLISH speaking humans?

Halo's story is successful in diverting your attention from any flaws by immersing you in a world lively and animated.

runtime211

"That's right, Halo 3's biggest flaw is that at it never rises to the level of epic storytelling or gameplay that the premise suggests, even demands. Although I was told time and again there was a war for humanity's fate going on, I certainly never saw any evidence of it. Great stakes are discussed, but never established. I'm supposed to be horrified that the Flood overrun a city, or that most of Africa needs to be bombed to prevent their spread, but since no one actually seems to live there, why should I care? No reference to civilian casualties, or even civilian existence, is ever made, so there's no tragedy in the "glassing" of Africa, just the mild satisfaction that comes from having survived it. It's a little ridiculous seeing what should be the game's climactic encounter being waged on such a small scale. When I besieged the Prophet of Truth's final stronghold, the only resistance I found was six vehicles and eight soliders, for a grand total of fourteen opposing troops. Between vehicles and Marines, I had ten on my side. This is supposed to be the deciding battle for the fate of the galaxy, and it involves less than 25 people?

Guess again.

And regardless, what one game critic says about the game is automatically upheld for truth? That's just ridiculous.

Halo 3 got more than twenty scores of 100 from game critics. Universal consensus is far more reliable than the ramblings of one person - although I'd concede that the criticism offered by that person probably has some truth to it.

runtime211

Nice to contradict yourself there.

This guy talks about making an agreement with a zombie lifeform whose intelligence has all but disappeared? Why don't you make a cease-fire with a rock, you'd probably get better results. Edit: I see, the gravemind, but such an agreement still conflicts with the interests of the flood, and to a certain extent the original point still remains.

runtime211

You clearly don't get it do you?

"This problematic lack of scope extends into the game's plot, which is one of the most simplistic stories I've ever seen referred to as being "deep." It attempts to add resonance by placing the central conflict in a religious context: The villain is called a "Prophet", the Elites, aliens who have abandoned the Covenant to team up with humans, are called "Heretics" by the other Covenant troops. Unfortunately, the story doesn't have any of the depth or grey areas that actual religious schisms manifest. In fact, the main conflict of the game is an entirely secular one. Beyond the simple question of whether the Master Chief can stop the Prophet of Truth from destroying the galaxy (spoiler alert: according to the ad campaign, he can), there's no depth or complexity to this conflict. What the Covenant wants is so outlandishly bad that it can't be seen as anything but madness, and the humans have a completely good solution available to them, which, if successful would result in the complete destruction of all their foes and a completely happy ending. There's no hard decisions to be made here, no possibility of being forced to accept the existence of, or even making an agreement with, the Flood. No, all the bad guys are clearly evil, and all of them can be easily defeated in one fell swoop."

A one dimensional conflict between "Good" and "Evil" or "Black" and "White" which excludes the "Neutral" or the "Gray" does not equal significant depth.

Nonetheless, a story which has had three excellent books written on it as well as a potential movie definitely must have one of the deepest universes ever found in a video game. Not to mention the popular internet series Red vs. Blue.

runtime211

Again you go back to mentioning the Universe. I don't care, and neither do a lot of people. You either work with what was presented in the games or don't bother at all.

As I said before, I probably wouldn't have chose Halo for this title, but I'm disgusted by all these haters who can't resist attacking Halo, a franchise whose success has far eclipsed most PC games and has received more media attention than any recent PC game. Just like everyone likes to attack EA, whose sports games are still of top-notch quality. And Crytek, who's essentially saying, albeit exaggerated, that piracy plays a big role in hurting commercial success. And World of Warcraft, whose 10+ million player fanbase are supposedly just stupid because the game sucks and everyone who plays it becomes an addicted brainless nerd. runtime211

Oh gee, could it be possible that haters are disgusted of the rampant accolades that Halo receives, that it gets claimed as being "TEH GRATEST EFF PEE ESS EVAR!!!ONE" and that it "Revolutionized", "Reinvented", "Innovated" the FPS genre. Just exactly what new things DID Halo bring to the table? Everything I've seen people claim that Halo innovated were designs which already existed in previous games. If PC games are the only ones being eclipsed by Halo then why do so few people seem to know Red Faction, Timesplitters, and Escape From Butcher Bay exist? Halo will continue to be hated so long as people keep talking it up as being head over heels above every other game on the market, when it is clear that better games exist and far surpass Halo.

I would argue back, but you're just acting like a jerk and mocking my post. If you want to have a friendly debate about the topic, instead of bitterly attacking me, then I'll come back.