Devil May Cry 4 "pirated to hell and back"

[QUOTE="ReddestSkies"]

I find it amusing that a PC gamer is demanding standardity on his platform. You were probably opposed to the switch to DVD (5 years after consoles did), too.

Yes, some ports were done in a lazy way and the menus weren't even changed, but the fact is that some games work best on a gamepad. For those games, the standard control scheme should be meant to be mapped on a gamepad. It's that simple. If you can't appreciate the hardware superiority that PC gaming offers (i.e. being able to play every game in the way that it should be played), then you shouldn't be a PC gamer in the first place.

Gamepads can be bought for less than $30. Do yourself a favor and buy one.

Nibroc420

Here you are, comparing the PC to a console again. You obviously fail to see that PC gaming is superior, hardware-wise, and doesn't hinder game development with ridiculous concepts such as "standard controls".

[QUOTE="quocthai"][QUOTE="Nikalai_88"][QUOTE="Nibroc420"][QUOTE="Nikalai_88"]

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"]It's starting to seem as though any game that doesn't do well has gained an excuse to fall back on "oh, well, it got pirated alot"

every single game gets pirated and the developers should recognize this when making it..what was it, SoaSE that did great even though they had no copy protection?
no copy protection means it's easyer to pirate than devil may cry 4 and yet, i bet it did far better in sales.
Nikalai_88

SoaSE had copy protection for online play, and considering it is primary an online game I think the 'no copy protection' argument is moot. Also it did 'great' by the standards of its publisher, it did not do great by the standards of the multi-million selling publishers and titles.

It seems like people can't acknowledge that piracy has a large impact on PC game sales. The thing is publishers look at console sales (the Japanese game even did great on a western console such as 360) and then they look at the pc game sales. And then they look at the console install base and then they look at the supposed ten's of millions install base of gaming GPU's. Then they see one sold significantly more than the other. Are there other reasons they game would not have sold as well? Sure, but they all are largely demand based. However when publishers see the high piracy numbers they obviously see that there was demand and interest in the game. Now no publisher is stupid enough to think that a pirated copy means a lost sale. They all know that when the price is essentially zero demand goes through the roof, but when your game is competing with one that is free your losses will be massive, especially when retail competition can swing by price margins as small as %10.

Its as if you own a pizza store and another one opens up right beside you with the exact same product that they are giving it away for free, going 'its not going to affect me' would be the definition of stupid.

So basically instead of countering my arguments you simply state that you heard that DMC4 was a bad port when its commonly acknowledged that it is a very good one? Try to come up with something better.

it is a good port in term of optimization for the PC. But it's a not a good game for the pc, the market for this type on the pc is really small, the fact that the game was released 6 months after the console couter part and offer almost no extra contents make it even worse.

If there was no interest in this game for PC than people would not be pirating it.

There's a fine line between being interested enough to try it, and being interested enough to buy it. I have a feeling DMC4 lost very little sales due to piracy.

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"][QUOTE="ReddestSkies"]

I find it amusing that a PC gamer is demanding standardity on his platform. You were probably opposed to the switch to DVD (5 years after consoles did), too.

Yes, some ports were done in a lazy way and the menus weren't even changed, but the fact is that some games work best on a gamepad. For those games, the standard control scheme should be meant to be mapped on a gamepad. It's that simple. If you can't appreciate the hardware superiority that PC gaming offers (i.e. being able to play every game in the way that it should be played), then you shouldn't be a PC gamer in the first place.

Gamepads can be bought for less than $30. Do yourself a favor and buy one.

ReddestSkies

Here you are, comparing the PC to a console again. You obviously fail to see that PC gaming is superior, hardware-wise, and doesn't hinder game development with ridiculous concepts such as "standard controls".

Here you are, comparing the PC to a console again. You obviously fail to see that PC gaming is superior, hardware-wise, and doesn't hinder game development with ridiculous concepts such as "standard controls".

ReddestSkies

you might have a case IF games now better played with gamepad are PC native. Those games are better with gamepad because they are made to be console games in the first place. the developer has console key mapping and game structure in mind the foremost, not PC. There's no creativity, and therefore no "hinderance" to speak of, these developers simply ask PC gamers to buy a console gamepad so the game can be played exactly the SAME as on console.

Ok, fine. But do you think it is right for a developer to assume every single Pc gamer has a gamepad? then scream piracy when their sales don't reach the levels they hoped?
Nibroc420

I'm just going to say that if the controls are the main reason why the game didn't sell well, then the assumption that PC gamers and console gamers are different is completely and entirely false.

Piracy is no doupt contributing to some sales being lost but not many. Since it isn't being hardcore pirated ect I'd say it's more to do with DD like it was said in the article. They just seem to have nitpicked on piracy. The majority of that article was to do with DD not piracy, but for some reason the jouranlist picked Piracy as it's headline. I'd give 5 that half the people here didn't read the full article they are arguing about.death1505921

[QUOTE="death1505921"]Piracy is no doupt contributing to some sales being lost but not many. Since it isn't being hardcore pirated ect I'd say it's more to do with DD like it was said in the article. They just seem to have nitpicked on piracy. The majority of that article was to do with DD not piracy, but for some reason the jouranlist picked Piracy as it's headline. I'd give 5 that half the people here didn't read the full article they are arguing about.Makari

To my knowledge, Mass Effect still isn't fully cracked (tripwires still result in certain bugs in the pirated versions.. pirates haven't found them all yet). And our data collected on Bioshock is pretty damn solid too from certain audit services, and their integration wasn't as deep as Mass Effect's. They are more effective than people think... part of the problem though is that EA and T2 didn't actually communicate what's supposed to happen. The result of that lack of communication is that the pirates just think the game is buggy. :DChristian Svensson

Trip wires and phone homes? Is that to effectivly catch and prosocute? Or just make the game buggy from cracks?

Trip wires and phone homes? Is that to effectivly catch and prosocute? Or just make the game buggy from cracks?death1505921

[QUOTE="Nikalai_88"][QUOTE="quocthai"][QUOTE="Nikalai_88"][QUOTE="Nibroc420"][QUOTE="Nikalai_88"]

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"]It's starting to seem as though any game that doesn't do well has gained an excuse to fall back on "oh, well, it got pirated alot"

every single game gets pirated and the developers should recognize this when making it..what was it, SoaSE that did great even though they had no copy protection?
no copy protection means it's easyer to pirate than devil may cry 4 and yet, i bet it did far better in sales.
GodLovesDead

SoaSE had copy protection for online play, and considering it is primary an online game I think the 'no copy protection' argument is moot. Also it did 'great' by the standards of its publisher, it did not do great by the standards of the multi-million selling publishers and titles.

It seems like people can't acknowledge that piracy has a large impact on PC game sales. The thing is publishers look at console sales (the Japanese game even did great on a western console such as 360) and then they look at the pc game sales. And then they look at the console install base and then they look at the supposed ten's of millions install base of gaming GPU's. Then they see one sold significantly more than the other. Are there other reasons they game would not have sold as well? Sure, but they all are largely demand based. However when publishers see the high piracy numbers they obviously see that there was demand and interest in the game. Now no publisher is stupid enough to think that a pirated copy means a lost sale. They all know that when the price is essentially zero demand goes through the roof, but when your game is competing with one that is free your losses will be massive, especially when retail competition can swing by price margins as small as %10.

Its as if you own a pizza store and another one opens up right beside you with the exact same product that they are giving it away for free, going 'its not going to affect me' would be the definition of stupid.

So basically instead of countering my arguments you simply state that you heard that DMC4 was a bad port when its commonly acknowledged that it is a very good one? Try to come up with something better.

it is a good port in term of optimization for the PC. But it's a not a good game for the pc, the market for this type on the pc is really small, the fact that the game was released 6 months after the console couter part and offer almost no extra contents make it even worse.

If there was no interest in this game for PC than people would not be pirating it.

There's a fine line between being interested enough to try it, and being interested enough to buy it. I have a feeling DMC4 lost very little sales due to piracy.

The game had a demo.

The game had a demo.

Nikalai_88

[QUOTE="Nikalai_88"]

The game had a demo.

Nibroc420

And that's not exactly what I meant either. I meant that people had enough interest to play through the game (and personally I thought the demo really didn't show much), but if they had to put their money down on a game, it wouldn't be DMC4. If I was pirating things left and right, I would consider DMC4. But just because I would supposedly pirate the game, it doesn't translate to a loss of a sale, because I'd never put down the money to buy the game anyways.

(I don't condone piracy, it's just an example.)

[QUOTE="death1505921"]Trip wires and phone homes? Is that to effectivly catch and prosocute? Or just make the game buggy from cracks?Makari

Ah I see. So they still arn't willing to put the time and money into prosocuting but rather to find out stastics. That flashpoint stuff sounds truly epic. I might actualy see if I can find some vids of that.

accually Makari, From your post i gather you think piracy has made a huge impact on Pc gaming and i might even go so far as to assume you're like the rest of the people who toss pirates and baby-killers into the same pile.But i don't think you're that bad.

Personally, I know that piracy is sucking the life out of PC gaming. However i don't think that it's the rate we think it is. I'm going to stick with my belief that Pirates totally f' up some game sales. But in cases like RE4, it doesn't matter if it's pirated or not. The Developers/publishers will scream piracy when their sales don't reach the expected numbers.

Would you rather tell the rest of the gaming world that you made a game that people saw was so bad, that it wasn't worth buying? Or just say "i didn't reach the expected numbers in sales as i had expected, because of piracy"Nibroc420

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"][QUOTE="Nikalai_88"]

The game had a demo.

GodLovesDead

And that's not exactly what I meant either. I meant that people had enough interest to play through the game (and personally I thought the demo really didn't show much), but if they had to put their money down on a game, it wouldn't be DMC4. If I was pirating things left and right, I would consider DMC4. But just because I would supposedly pirate the game, it doesn't translate to a loss of a sale, because I'd never put down the money to buy the game anyways.

(I don't condone piracy, it's just an example.)

[QUOTE="Makari"][QUOTE="death1505921"]Trip wires and phone homes? Is that to effectivly catch and prosocute? Or just make the game buggy from cracks?death1505921

Ah I see. So they still arn't willing to put the time and money into prosocuting but rather to find out stastics. That flashpoint stuff sounds truly epic. I might actualy see if I can find some vids of that.

i believe there's a pretty big piracy culture that simply doesn't plan on paying for games if they can avoid it, and a lot of them will take legitimate reasons and repeat them when they don't really understand just to give themselves a free moral justification or pat on the back.

Makari

That's true, but irrelevant as to determining whether piracy is the key factor in the sales of individual games. The fact is that we have some games sell bad and some games sell extremely well while all of them are being pirated. How those pirates justify their action is irrelevant to this fact.

we've got groups essentially saying that mentioning piracy is crying wolf.

Makari

I'd surely like to know how this group makes its case about piracy and game industry GENERALLY, rather than speaking of one particular game

stuff like DMC4 is niche, yeah, especially on the PC, but i'd take a stab in the dark that they're basing the 'this is getting pirated to hell and back' on some numbers he saw instead of speaking off the cuff.. Makari

then they'd better tell us what those numbers are instead of toss piracy around as their main reason of poorer than expected sales. I'd like to hear what they have to say about the Sims 2 phenomenon in spite of piracy.

then they'd better tell us what those numbers are instead of toss piracy around as their main reason of poorer than expected sales. I'd like to hear what they have to say about the Sims 2 phenomenon in spite of piracy.teardropmina

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"][QUOTE="Nikalai_88"]

The game had a demo.

GodLovesDead

And that's not exactly what I meant either. I meant that people had enough interest to play through the game (and personally I thought the demo really didn't show much), but if they had to put their money down on a game, it wouldn't be DMC4. If I was pirating things left and right, I would consider DMC4. But just because I would supposedly pirate the game, it doesn't translate to a loss of a sale, because I'd never put down the money to buy the game anyways.

(I don't condone piracy, it's just an example.)

Please re-read my original post. The thing is piracy completely destroys the equilibrium point on a supply and demand graph. You can't simply state 'the game was good enough to pirate but not enough to buy' when that is specifically a part of the problem. According to that logic than only top shelf multiplayer AAA games deserve any kind of good sales. Not only that but arguing that it is simply 'too different' does not make sense, as plenty of 'different' games have sold on PC and the game sold well on the Xbox360 in NA.

sims and the sims 2 works in favor of how most publishers see it - hardcore PC gamers know too much about hardware, how things work, and how to use filesharing to get those things to work. the average sims player doesn't, and will simply buy the game because they don't know other options are out there, causing the game to have exponentially higher sales than other games. casual gaming is a weird mix of MASSIVE sales combined with even more massive piracy. Makari

this is the only thing I do want it made clear...there're other things going on in spite of piracy (and for some "massive piracy" at that). piracy is something serious and may affect lots of things, but not necessarily the main cause for poor sales of individual games.

and all the inside things you mentioned, which is sorta crypt to me, just make it even clearer: you cannot simplify piracy's relatedness to gaming as that biggest wolf when every case of bad sale happens.

The thing is piracy completely destroys the equilibrium point on a supply and demand graph. You can't simply state 'the game was good enough to pirate but not enough to buy' when that is specifically a part of the problem. According to that logic than only top shelf multiplayer AAA games deserve any kind of good sales.

you're moralizing actual bussiness situation. Games, movies or anything commerical simply sell well, bad or so so or whatever. It's one thing to guess or reason why a game actually sells yet another not; it's a totally different thing to talk which game "deserves" better sale and another doesn't (or even "every game deserves to sell well?").

think I'm done here. I'm only interested in discussing the actual impact of piracy on indiviual game, in this case -- DMC4--, rather than the moral issue of piracy and game sales.

think I'm done here. I'm only interested in discussing the actual impact of piracy on indiviual game, in this case -- DMC4--, rather than the moral issue of piracy and game sales.teardropmina

"I don't think the game has any copy protection but I guess they expected better sales.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/devil-may-cry-4-pirated-to-hell-and-back-says-capcom

Capcom in the US has admitted that sales of the PC version of Devil May Cry 4 are suffering due to severe piracy issues.

Writing on the official Capcom forums, vice president of strategic planning Christian Svensson said that the Japanese division has so far not allowed the title to be distributed digitally.

"I'm not sure about how Capcom in general feels but it's not doing as well as I would like in the US at retail," wrote Svensson.

"It's such a good version and it really deserves better sales. I know it's getting pirated to hell and back (it was up on torrents literally the day it shipped)."

Jamex1987

Am I the only one that think pirating is just an excuse in this case? I mean, seriously, DMC series has never been on computer. We, computer gamers, never played the series and thus just dont care about it, aka, we dont buy it. You think i would care that killzone or resistance came to pc? I already got enough game to play as it is.

PIRATING IS THE NEW SCAPEGOAT WHEN YOUR GAMES DONT SELL AS WELL AS YOU WOULD HAVE LIKED.

[QUOTE="Jamex1987"]

"I don't think the game has any copy protection but I guess they expected better sales.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/devil-may-cry-4-pirated-to-hell-and-back-says-capcom

Capcom in the US has admitted that sales of the PC version of Devil May Cry 4 are suffering due to severe piracy issues.

Writing on the official Capcom forums, vice president of strategic planning Christian Svensson said that the Japanese division has so far not allowed the title to be distributed digitally.

"I'm not sure about how Capcom in general feels but it's not doing as well as I would like in the US at retail," wrote Svensson.

"It's such a good version and it really deserves better sales. I know it's getting pirated to hell and back (it was up on torrents literally the day it shipped)."

kalossimitar

Am I the only one that think pirating is just an excuse in this case? I mean, seriously, DMC series has never been on computer. We, computer gamers, never played the series and thus just dont care about it, aka, we dont buy it. You think i would care that killzone or resistance came to pc? I already got enough game to play as it is.

PIRATING IS THE NEW SCAPEGOAT WHEN YOUR GAMES DONT SELL AS WELL AS YOU WOULD HAVE LIKED.

It is a shame really, just tried the demo and it's an excellent port. Great graphics, yet the framerate is smooth as ever, tight controls(on a pad) and all around it doesn't even feel like a port at all. BUT:

- It came out on consoles like half a year ago, most people who wanted it, have it.

- It's DMC4, I have doubts simply because it's a sequel to a series I have never played, and I doubt most PC gamers have either.

- No marketing. I visit forums like this every day, and I only accidentally learned two days ago that there is a PC demo of DMC4.

- No DD that I know of. It opens a whole new market and offers automatic visibility to gamers who actually buy their games. It's simply foolish not to take advantage of it.

- It's just not the type of game PC gamers play.

It is a shame really, just tried the demo and it's an excellent port. Great graphics, yet the framerate is smooth as ever, tight controls(on a pad) and all around it doesn't even feel like a port at all. BUT:

- It came out on consoles like half a year ago, most people who wanted it, have it.

- It's DMC4, I have doubts simply because it's a sequel to a series I have never played, and I doubt most PC gamers have either.

- No marketing. I visit forums like this every day, and I only accidentally learned two days ago that there is a PC demo of DMC4.

- No DD that I know of. It opens a whole new market and offers automatic visibility to gamers who actually buy their games. It's simply foolish not to take advantage of it.

- It's just not the type of game PC gamers play.

mr_mozilla

I generally agree with this.

One other thing I feel that should've been done is a bit of promotion of the PC version. I'm not expecting TV commercials, but as we've heard on these forums, a lot of people were worried about a poor quality port and some thought it required a gamepad. They should've been doing more interviews and videos showing how the game works with kb/m. Also, in such a video, say "you're seeing the game being run at 1280x720 with this hardware setup, so you'll have an idea of how it will play for you." Things like this would dispel it being a bad port or that it requires a gamepad.

Easily the worst mistake (if you are expecting better sales) is giving the port 6 months after its original release. I could've bought it on my PS3- I'm not going to wait 6 months just so I can buy it on the PC with no new modes.

I hope this won't dissuade Capcom from more PC ports. As somebody else said, while we all probably hate bad ports, it's better than no port.

Well, what the hell is a j"rpg" doing on pc, anyways?ShotGunBunny

[QUOTE="ShotGunBunny"]Well, what the hell is a j"rpg" doing on pc, anyways?smokeydabear076

it's still got that:

"emo boy with a stupid harcut and a sword bigger than himself" that puts me off most japanese stuff. :D

[QUOTE="smokeydabear076"][QUOTE="ShotGunBunny"]Well, what the hell is a j"rpg" doing on pc, anyways?Enosh88

it's still got that:

"emo boy with a stupid harcut and a sword bigger than himself" that puts me off most japanese stuff. :D

Yeah and the dialog is pretty bad, and the characters are kind of unoriginal... but you really shouldn't play DMC4 (or any of the DMC games, except maybe 1) for the dialog/story/characters. The game is about tight controls, fast paced action, and has a good way of making everything you do look amazing.

That being said DMC4 is just a rehash... and the developers seem lazy.

You know since its 2008 I don't mind seeing other type games on the pc. This whole thing of "this is not meant to be on pc's" has to stop. I have a wireless gamepad along with my k&m. the way i look at pc's is this. Pc's are meant to be as open and more options than all the consoles combined. This is what adds superiority to the pc front. But if you guys limit yourself because "oh its a console game" then you making pc platform not looking any diffrent than consoles. So really i am open for more options even if some games are bad ports still not every single console game is a bad port.

We just going to have to make some changes here and really get people motivated to game on the pc. Otherwise pc gaming is going to become just mmo's rts'and simulation games lol. I don't know about you but i am all about options that this platform has to offer. So lets use it.

You know since its 2008 I don't mind seeing other type games on the pc. This whole thing of "this is not meant to be on pc's" has to stop. I have a wireless gamepad along with my k&m. the way i look at pc's is this. Pc's are meant to be as open and more options than all the consoles combined. This is what adds superiority to the pc front. But if you guys limit yourself because "oh its a console game" then you making pc platform not looking any diffrent than consoles. So really i am open for more options even if some games are bad ports still not every single console game is a bad port.

We just going to have to make some changes here and really get people motivated to game on the pc. Otherwise pc gaming is going to become just mmo's rts'and simulation games lol. I don't know about you but i am all about options that this platform has to offer. So lets use it.

MarioJP_

If the game sucks so much why are so many people pirating it? I just checked a popular site and it's amazing how many downloads the game has already.Jamex1987

You know since its 2008 I don't mind seeing other type games on the pc. This whole thing of "this is not meant to be on pc's" has to stop. I have a wireless gamepad along with my k&m. the way i look at pc's is this. Pc's are meant to be as open and more options than all the consoles combined. This is what adds superiority to the pc front. But if you guys limit yourself because "oh its a console game" then you making pc platform not looking any diffrent than consoles. So really i am open for more options even if some games are bad ports still not every single console game is a bad port.

We just going to have to make some changes here and really get people motivated to game on the pc. Otherwise pc gaming is going to become just mmo's rts'and simulation games lol. I don't know about you but i am all about options that this platform has to offer. So lets use it.

MarioJP_