Diablo 3 auction fees: 15% fee plus 15% for PayPal xfers....

I work full time, too. What's your point? Does that mean I can cheat at games now? Sorry, I don't have time to unlock all of my weapons in a on-line FPS I guess I can hack with impunity. I'm a busy man; I'm entitled! I'm not all that good at aiming either so, instead of practicing and getting better, I'll just use an aim-bot. Who has the time these days to not take the easy way out?

What you're talking about is cheating, sanctioned cheating, but don't fool yourself, it's still cheating.

-wildflower-

Then.... dont use it? I dont see how what someone else is doing that has no effect on you, is so bothersome.

[QUOTE="Cwagmire21"]

[QUOTE="-wildflower-"]

Ahh, so Diablo is a grind. I've always thought it was too but it's nice that others agree.

-wildflower-

It was and is. An addictive, fun grind IMO. However, when D2 was out, I was in middle school and high school with a lot of free time. Now with D3 out, I will be out of college and working full time with little to no free time. If busy players choose to buy items from players with more time, why should that stop them?

I work full time, too. What's your point? Does that mean I can cheat at games now? Sorry, I don't have time to unlock all of my weapons in a on-line FPS I guess I can hack with impunity. I'm a busy man; I'm entitled! I'm not all that good at aiming either so, instead of practicing and getting better, I'll just use an aim-bot. Who has the time these days to not take the easy way out?

What you're talking about is cheating, sanctioned cheating, but don't fool yourself, it's still cheating.

[QUOTE="-wildflower-"]

I work full time, too. What's your point? Does that mean I can cheat at games now? Sorry, I don't have time to unlock all of my weapons in a on-line FPS I guess I can hack with impunity. I'm a busy man; I'm entitled! I'm not all that good at aiming either so, instead of practicing and getting better, I'll just use an aim-bot. Who has the time these days to not take the easy way out?

What you're talking about is cheating, sanctioned cheating, but don't fool yourself, it's still cheating.

XaosII

Then.... dont use it? I dont see how what someone else is doing that has no effect on you, is so bothersome.

If it was a single-player game I would agree with you wholeheartedly. Cheat, hack the hell out of it, run bots, macros, who cares? But over and over people have insisted that Diablo3 is NOT a single-player game (nearly every defense of the DRM states this emphatically) so, yeah, in a multi-player environment I do think it's an issue. Should people also be able to buy items in a game like WoW?

Look, personally I don't give a s**t about D3. I'm not buying the game. Between the DRM, RMAH, and the beta boring me to tears, Diablo 3 isn't even a bargain bin purchase for me. What I am worried about is other companies following suit. Will it still be okay when people start buying their way up the ladder in a FPS? A MMORPG? Where do you draw the line? Is there even a line?

If games have become so tedious that the act of actually playing them and earning the macguffin legitimately isn't fun in and of itself, then what's the point? Why play the game at all? Is it simply to strok an otherwise flacid ego?

[QUOTE="XaosII"]

[QUOTE="-wildflower-"]

I work full time, too. What's your point? Does that mean I can cheat at games now? Sorry, I don't have time to unlock all of my weapons in a on-line FPS I guess I can hack with impunity. I'm a busy man; I'm entitled! I'm not all that good at aiming either so, instead of practicing and getting better, I'll just use an aim-bot. Who has the time these days to not take the easy way out?

What you're talking about is cheating, sanctioned cheating, but don't fool yourself, it's still cheating.

-wildflower-

Then.... dont use it? I dont see how what someone else is doing that has no effect on you, is so bothersome.

If it was a single-player game I would agree with you wholeheartedly. Cheat, hack the hell out of it, run bots, macros, who cares? But over and over people have insisted that Diablo3 is NOT a single-player game (nearly every defense of the DRM states this emphatically) so, yeah, in a multi-player environment I do think it's an issue. Should people also be able to buy items in a game like WoW?

Look, personally I don't give a s**t about D3. I'm not buying the game. Between the DRM, RMAH, and the beta boring me to tears, Diablo 3 isn't even a bargain bin purchase for me. What I am worried about is other companies following suit. Will it still be okay when people start buying their way up the ladder in a FPS? A MMORPG? Where do you draw the line? Is there even a line?

If games have become so tedious that the act of actually playing them and earning the macguffin legitimately isn't fun in and of itself, then what's the point? Why play the game at all? Is it simply to strok an otherwise flacid ego?

:lol: Yes because this in no way ever happens on MMORPGs.. Oh thats right, WoW was basically the first mmorpg that I can ever remember that even ATTEMPTED to stop the whole real money for digital items industry to begin with! This stuff has existed since the days of EQ1 in the mmorpg genre..

[QUOTE="-wildflower-"]

[QUOTE="XaosII"]

Then.... dont use it? I dont see how what someone else is doing that has no effect on you, is so bothersome.

sSubZerOo

If it was a single-player game I would agree with you wholeheartedly. Cheat, hack the hell out of it, run bots, macros, who cares? But over and over people have insisted that Diablo3 is NOT a single-player game (nearly every defense of the DRM states this emphatically) so, yeah, in a multi-player environment I do think it's an issue. Should people also be able to buy items in a game like WoW?

Look, personally I don't give a s**t about D3. I'm not buying the game. Between the DRM, RMAH, and the beta boring me to tears, Diablo 3 isn't even a bargain bin purchase for me. What I am worried about is other companies following suit. Will it still be okay when people start buying their way up the ladder in a FPS? A MMORPG? Where do you draw the line? Is there even a line?

If games have become so tedious that the act of actually playing them and earning the macguffin legitimately isn't fun in and of itself, then what's the point? Why play the game at all? Is it simply to strok an otherwise flacid ego?

:lol: Yes because this in no way ever happens on MMORPGs.. Oh thats right, WoW was basically the first mmorpg that I can ever remember that even ATTEMPTED to stop the whole real money for digital items industry to begin with! This stuff has existed since the days of EQ1 in the mmorpg genre..

Where did I ever say it didn't exist. I am asking if it should be accepted, condoned.

EQ banned people, too.

"Smedley said only a small percentage of the more than 206,500 registered EverQuest members take part in the sales. On the site's chat board, most players cheered the sales ban."

Funny how things change or maybe pathetic is the word I'm looking for?

If it was a single-player game I would agree with you wholeheartedly. Cheat, hack the hell out of it, run bots, macros, who cares? But over and over people have insisted that Diablo3 is NOT a single-player game (nearly every defense of the DRM states this emphatically) so, yeah, in a multi-player environment I do think it's an issue. Should people also be able to buy items in a game like WoW?

Look, personally I don't give a s**t about D3. I'm not buying the game. Between the DRM, RMAH, and the beta boring me to tears, Diablo 3 isn't even a bargain bin purchase for me. What I am worried about is other companies following suit. Will it still be okay when people start buying their way up the ladder in a FPS? A MMORPG? Where do you draw the line? Is there even a line?

If games have become so tedious that the act of actually playing them and earning the macguffin legitimately isn't fun in and of itself, then what's the point? Why play the game at all? Is it simply to strok an otherwise flacid ego?

-wildflower-

But Diablo 3 isn't competitive, so i dont see why a power difference (via cash) would matter.

And its competitive component does matchmaking based on roughly equal gear level (WoW Arenas also do this)... so at worst you'll be fighting a guy that's on equal to your gear that he paid for. If anything, you are likely the more skilled player having found and used your gear for a longer period of time than the guy who just bought it.

If your concern is the precedent this sets on other games, then fine. But its a lot of worry of "what might happen" thats a bit premature, i feel.

There are already plenty of games that have overpowered weapons and armors as DLC (i'm looking at you Bioware!). If anything i would argue that at the very least it requires having someone actually *find* the item before it gets sold instead of the developers creating infinite copies of overpowered items at $1.99. Its a player-to-player transaction that required one of the players to do the work (or luck!) of earning the item.

[QUOTE="GummiRaccoon"]

....for every concept you didn't understand you'd be able to buy all the gear you want in diablo3.

-wildflower-

More ad hominem attacks, priceless. Not that I'm surprised - considering what your "friends" are like. :cry:

congratulations on being able to identify things.

Did babby just attend first logic class?

[QUOTE="-wildflower-"]

[QUOTE="GummiRaccoon"]

....for every concept you didn't understand you'd be able to buy all the gear you want in diablo3.

GummiRaccoon

More ad hominem attacks, priceless. Not that I'm surprised - considering what your "friends" are like. :cry:

congratulations on being able to identify things.

Did babby just attend first logic class?

Nah, but at least baby can spell.

Man is the site glitchy.....

But Diablo 3 isn't competitive, so i dont see why a power difference (via cash) would matter.

And its competitive component does matchmaking based on roughly equal gear level (WoW Arenas also do this)... so at worst you'll be fighting a guy that's on equal to your gear that he paid for. If anything, you are likely the more skilled player having found and used your gear for a longer period of time than the guy who just bought it.

If your concern is the precedent this sets on other games, then fine. But its a lot of worry of "what might happen" thats a bit premature, i feel.

There are already plenty of games that have overpowered weapons and armors as DLC (i'm looking at you Bioware!). If anything i would argue that at the very least it requires having someone actually *find* the item before it gets sold instead of the developers creating infinite copies of overpowered items at $1.99. Its a player-to-player transaction that required one of the players to do the work (or luck!) of earning the item.

XaosII

Unlike most of the other posters here (who might I be talking about?), even if I don't necessarily agree with everything you say, I have to admit you make some fair points.

I don't know, I just keep thinking back to EQ2 and their decision to allow players to buy and sell items with real money (only on a few selected servers) and the outcry that generated was deafening. SOE was ridiculed mercilessly for their decision and, in my opinion, rightly so. I can't help but feel that somewhere along the way, between then and now, gamers and gaming have changed for the worse.

[QUOTE="Cwagmire21"]

[QUOTE="-wildflower-"]

Ahh, so Diablo is a grind. I've always thought it was too but it's nice that others agree.

-wildflower-

It was and is. An addictive, fun grind IMO. However, when D2 was out, I was in middle school and high school with a lot of free time. Now with D3 out, I will be out of college and working full time with little to no free time. If busy players choose to buy items from players with more time, why should that stop them?

I work full time, too. What's your point? Does that mean I can cheat at games now? Sorry, I don't have time to unlock all of my weapons in a on-line FPS I guess I can hack with impunity. I'm a busy man; I'm entitled! I'm not all that good at aiming either so, instead of practicing and getting better, I'll just use an aim-bot. Who has the time these days to not take the easy way out?

What you're talking about is cheating, sanctioned cheating, but don't fool yourself, it's still cheating.

Might as well say trading is "cheating" too. You found weapon X. You stick with weapon X. If you want, armor Y, then you better be sure to put in the time...

[QUOTE="-wildflower-"]

[QUOTE="XaosII"]

Then.... dont use it? I dont see how what someone else is doing that has no effect on you, is so bothersome.

sSubZerOo

If it was a single-player game I would agree with you wholeheartedly. Cheat, hack the hell out of it, run bots, macros, who cares? But over and over people have insisted that Diablo3 is NOT a single-player game (nearly every defense of the DRM states this emphatically) so, yeah, in a multi-player environment I do think it's an issue. Should people also be able to buy items in a game like WoW?

Look, personally I don't give a s**t about D3. I'm not buying the game. Between the DRM, RMAH, and the beta boring me to tears, Diablo 3 isn't even a bargain bin purchase for me. What I am worried about is other companies following suit. Will it still be okay when people start buying their way up the ladder in a FPS? A MMORPG? Where do you draw the line? Is there even a line?

If games have become so tedious that the act of actually playing them and earning the macguffin legitimately isn't fun in and of itself, then what's the point? Why play the game at all? Is it simply to strok an otherwise flacid ego?

:lol: Yes because this in no way ever happens on MMORPGs.. Oh thats right, WoW was basically the first mmorpg that I can ever remember that even ATTEMPTED to stop the whole real money for digital items industry to begin with! This stuff has existed since the days of EQ1 in the mmorpg genre..