Direct x 11 Revealed!! wooot !!

[QUOTE="MarioJP_"]

you guys dont understand. You are aware that directx10 cards can also be used as directx 9 as well. Furthermore some games gives you the option to select dx 10 or dx 9 mode such games like devil may cry 4. So if don't want to get a directx 9 card that also has support for dx10 than thats on you. because the only true directx 9 cards are the ati 1900 sereis and nvidia 7800 series.

I would love to see how much performance you get out of in dx9 mode vs a 4800 or 9800 series which not only has dx10 but a much faster dx9 mode. No comparison there. It will smoke your outdated 1900 series and 7800 series because people like you refuse to get a much faster dx9 card that has dx10.

I did not upgrade because of directx 10. I upgraded because i wanted more performance and be ready for nextgen games and my hardware happens to include dx10 alongside with dx9 so whats you point.

So really i am not that one thats missing out here you are.

dannyw7982

no again you are skirting around the point, if you gonna awnser don't act like a laywer and twist it around. I bought a Dx10card for DX10 and now im being told that DX11 is coming. Does that mean dx10 is obsolete, did i waste my money. To clarify DX9 means absolutly nothing in the discussion. you upgraded for your reasons, i upgraded for mine.

Where the fk is my super DX10 games as advertised not only on the web but in this very thread????

lol you obviously missing the point and misunderstanding. Directx 10 is not obsolete just like 9 isnt obsolete when 11 comes out. It will support 10 and still having dx9. again what is your point. Secondly the reason why dx10 hasn't caught up yet because devlopers haven't maxed out 9 yet but dx10 is there later down the road not right now. But soon enough it is catching up. And lastly you still have to upgrade anyways for newer games so if you don't like that then stick with consoles. You be stupid enough if you upgraded for just one thing this is called marketing

I study economics at university, so I don't think I live in a fantasy world when it comes to money. Wesker776

I wonder why everybody studies economy these days. :P

[QUOTE="blacktorn"][QUOTE="Wesker776"]

[QUOTE="X360PS3AMD05"]On paper, everyone is angry that the games aren't a whole lot better, but i think with DX11 we should see a bigger leap. Wesker776

You can blame developers and economies of scale for the shortage of DX10 games.

Until more people get DX10 class hardware (i.e. We get people away from the $100 DX9 video cards of old to $100 DX10 cards), we won't see developers coding games primarily for DX10. The same will happen to DX11, and the same has happened for EVERY single past DirectX release.

Also, DX11 looks like an evolution, not a revolution like what DX10 was.

How on earth was it a revolution?Post me a dx10 game screenshot vs. a dx 9 one and the difference is minimal at best...

DX11 sound a bigger jump than DX10/10.1 primarily because it supports multi core cpu's in the engine,which will not only improve the support and efficiency of multi-core cpu's in use with games but will also make it cheaper and more cost effective to do so.

Also tessellation is a big deal,it pretty much eliminates jaggies for good and also the requirements for tessellation should be alot lower vs. 16 AA ect

You're not looking at the big picture. :|

I've actually had a glance of the DX10/10.1 specifications verses the DX9 specifications. DX10 is totally different to DX9, and once developers become familiar with it, we should see some big gains in quality and rendering efficiency.

You can't call DX10 useless because of a screenshot on current games (even though PC_X360's post does provide good contrasts). That's like saying that alternative energy sources are completely useless (compared to coal and petrol) because they don't produce enough energy--you're not looking at the long term, where energy and car companies will create newer technology to make more efficient use of alternative energies.

The multicore CPU support of DX11 is just a coincidence with developer's own roadmaps to transition to multiple core processing. Intel and AMD have been offering developer software tools to help enhance multiple core processing for quite some time now, and we're starting to see the benefits in some current games. That's also not mentioning the fact that dual and quad core processors are quite cheap, which has helped move people away from single core processors. I guess you could say MS decided to ride the perfect wave when it came to actually timing when to provide official multiple core support.

Also, that's not how tesselation works.

Numbers don't matter unless they actually produce visual results and thus far the results are a minimal improvement over dx9,those age of conan pics the guy posted are an example of the minimal improvement dx10 has currently offered.That second flight simulator picture is a fake...

And i didn't say dx10 was useless i just said the improvement is not apparent enough,in all games that have supported dx10 have had slower fps vs. dx9 whilst looking marginally better and in most cases you can tweak dx9 to look as good as dx10 without having to sacrifice fps.

They might of done alot of architectural work with DX10 but if any of that doesn't actually make a substantial difference to games visuals then there's no point in bragging it up.

I don't understand how MS said that they want to continue support and updates for XP all the way to 2014, and not allow XP to use DX11. That is such BS. Ughh, Windows 7 can't come soon enough...chandlerr_360

They will continue to create security updates to windows xp until 2014 only.

Mainstream supports for xp ends in mid-2009,which means after that period microsoft won't release big updates to xp such as through service packs or internet explorer 9,windows media player12 ect.

[QUOTE="2005wrxsti"]

I'm dumb because I don't agree? Typical American attitude. I just see through the marketing that you're not able to grasp. As I originally stated if you think that gaming hardware & software is about anything other than money then you're living in a fantasy world.

Wesker776

Did I call you dumb? I said that you lack any form of knowledge on the matter, which is completely different from being "dumb".

Also, I'm not American, nor do I wish to be either.

I study economics at university, so I don't think I live in a fantasy world when it comes to money. :roll:

I know hardware and software very well, and the bells and whistles don't capture my attention like they do yours. If what you say is true and DX10 is the "God Sent" gamers euphoria you claim it is, then when graphics card generations skipped from the 7 series to the 8 series, and processing streams doubled why the hell were there ANY lag problems.

wrx

Did I claim that DX10 is a god send? Stop putting words in my mouth.

What lag problems are you talking about? Can you expound on that?

Proof of this theory is in the 9800 series and the GTX as well, don't tell me they weren't shuffling around those technologies at the same time!

wrx

What?

Again, can you try and explain things more thoroughly? I don't even know what you're trying to prove by using G92 and GT200 as an example.

...and of course they (Nvidia) were working on both the G92 and GT200. Chips usually take 2-3 years to design (possibly more for ground up designs), so it's important for a company to schedule multiple teams to multiple projects.

Also understand that the technology for 45nm has been around for about a year now, and guess what, graphics cards will be switching to that as soon as the companies have run their course on this current generation, so they can get you fan boys to buy the latest and greatest.

wrx

...so what?

IHV's moving to smaller process nodes to make more chips: Oh boy, what a surprise! :roll:

Proof of this is in software everywhere, there's an expantion pack for every single game out there, seperation of content to acquire more $$$.

wrx

Again, where is this magical link that you're only seeing?

How can you compare expansion packs of games to smaller process nodes of silicon manafacturing? :S

It's the same thing with cars, why do you think sports car manufacturers bottleneck certain performance areas of the vehicles, SIMPLE...so they leave themselves room to improve the next generation and get consumers back on the showroom floors.

wrx

:roll:

Absolutely rubbish. To avoid that kind of practise, we have competition in the market. :|

If one firm holds back, one or more firms in the industry will capitalise on the opportunity to market their products as superior.

Of course, if the firms in the market are colluding together, that's another issue completely (which has its own method of resolution).

Wesker, as previously stated lag problems in almost all games related to DX10, this is why the debate still rolls on and we're here talking about it. As stated before Vista DX10 and the next gen. cards came out this jump in tech was supposed to revolutionize the gaming industry. As I said before everyone was sold a bill of goods, graphics improved marginally at best, and as previously stated many people are sticking with DX9 to improve fps. As I previously stated stream processors doubled and tripled between these generations so hardware is not the issue here, the software is the bottleneck in this system. It doesn't take a 2 fold increase in processor streams to creat a few extra particle FX.

My question is...in your statements, why don't you understand, then two or three seconds later you come to an epiphany and finally understand what I'm saying. I'm sorry it takes you longer to process what I'm saying, but your slow reactions are an analogy to DX10.

You answered your own question here:

What?

Again, can you try and explain things more thoroughly? I don't even know what you're trying to prove by using G92 and GT200 as an example.

...and of course they (Nvidia) were working on both the G92 and GT200. Chips usually take 2-3 years to design (possibly more for ground up designs), so it's important for a company to schedule multiple teams to multiple projects.

You answered your own question here:

...so what?

IHV's moving to smaller process nodes to make more chips: Oh boy, what a surprise!

And you failed understand this the following so I'll assist you:

Again, where is this magical link that you're only seeing?

How can you compare expansion packs of games to smaller process nodes of silicon manafacturing? :S

Your claim is that all companies make the best product they can then ship it out. If this were the case then I wouldn't see Corolla LE, Corolla S, Corolla XRS now would I. Like I said it's marketing, market a low end product then sell upgrades for it. Same with ever consumer product out there. If you do in fact go to a university for economics then maybe you should get a refund on your education because they aren't giving you the tools necessary to understand capitalism. Then again you did say that you're not American, and with your lack of understanding of capitalism then I suspect your the poor soul of a communist economy.

For further digestion on your part since you're a little slow and using your DX10 mind, with flowery language and misc. rhetoric I'll assist you once again. Great case study on this marketing tactic is Subaru & Mitsubishi and the battle between the two companies to hold onto a sports car niche; I'll even through honda in there as a bonus for your DX10 mind.

In 2002 Subaru released the WRX, this was coinciding with the launch of the EVO 8. Subaru beat Mitsu to the punch though and they released a 2.0L 235hp boxer engine. They already knew Mitsu's evo was 275hp and beating them on both power and handling. The cars at first were very similar in price $24k & $27k. There's a great article in Road & Track of the Detroit Auto show where Mitsu releases the EVO, then Subaru announces the 2.5L 300hp boxer, just slightly increasing the performance over the EVO. This was done intentionally, and Subaru held out to release it to crush EVO sales and hopefully persuading buyers to go back to Subaru. The 2.5L was the natural first choice of Subaru, but once again (try to grasp this with me) THEY HELD BACK FOR MARKETING REASONS! To acquire first and foremost a fan base, then get those same buyers to trade in those vehicles and step up. This is also evident on a micro economics scale with upgrades in exhaust to help performance (why didn't they include in original) upgraded intakes (why didn't they include in original) and upgraded suspension (why didn't they include in original). Cost is minimal for these parts as they're all purchased in bulk and in the "exhaust" case the cost would have been less since less metal is used in manufacturing (this is similar to 45nm tech as you pointed out cutting costs by reducing size and natural resources). This is the same with DX10, why didn't they include these fantastic DX11 items in DX10, it's not because the technology isn't there, it's certainly not because the hardware wasn't there. IT'S BECAUSE THEY WANT TO MAKE MONEY!

So Wesker...hopefully I've been able to thoroughly connect the dots for you, if not then please upgrade your DX10 brain to DX11....or come back down to DX9 with the rest of us, and your brain will run smoother and faster.

[QUOTE="Spybot_9"][QUOTE="2005wrxsti"][QUOTE="2005wrxsti"]

I'm dumb because I don't agree? Typical American attitude. I just see through the marketing that you're not able to grasp. As I originally stated if you think that gaming hardware & software is about anything other than money then you're living in a fantasy world. I know hardware and software very well, and the bells and whistles don't capture my attention like they do yours. If what you say is true and DX10 is the "God Sent" gamers euphoria you claim it is, then when graphics card generations skipped from the 7 series to the 8 series, and processing streams doubled why the hell were there ANY lag problems.

Proof of this theory is in the 9800 series and the GX2 as well, don't tell me they weren't shuffling around those technologies at the same time! Also understand that the technology for 45nm has been around for about a year now, and guess what, graphics cards will be switching to that as soon as the companies have run their course on this current generation, so they can get you fan boys to buy the latest and greatest. Proof of this is in software everywhere, there's an expantion pack for every single game out there, seperation of content to acquire more $$$. It's the same thing with cars, why do you think sports car manufacturers bottleneck certain performance areas of the vehicles, SIMPLE...so they leave themselves room to improve the next generation and get consumers back on the showroom floors. Don't build a great product, build a product that just beats your competition, then save the rest of your cards for further marketing.

2005wrxsti

Sorry meant to say...that 9800 series and GTX series were being developed simultaniously.

EDIT..."Noobishness" --- Now this, is a dumb comment Wesker!

Ah what?:lol:.......:?Spybot_9

I'm guessing that he wanted to tell Wesker that u made comment which is more dumb then what he wrote, since i bet Wesker is god for him rofl and hes trying to get his respect or something.

I think his problem is he doesn't like marketing and money. I am sorry but why do you think they still teach economics???. Games are business too just like everything else in this world. Sure the products may not meet your expectations but they do not suck either. Here is the rule of thumb. You can't please everyone what these companies delivers they are only targeting to those that are interested this is called a business. Sorry to dissapoint but everyone has to make ends meet. it ain't fun and games when you can't make any money. The reality of this not everyone is going to be happy with certain thing or feature of a product especially when you have a platform very open and not to standardized.

And you can also blame those people that refuse to upgrade which only slows down the progression of directx10 so devlopers have no choice but to target where most are at which still in dx9. Now as far as dx10 not available on xp?? this is because dx10 is a brand new architecture that is designed for the next generation hardware and also to try to sell vista. The only problem there is developers didnt get enough time and resources because alot refuse to upgrade to vista because "oh its microsoft typical of them". Haven't you look at the history of directx??. It goes way back to directx 7 so directx10 isn't any new and no this isn't a gimmick or a plot to try to convince you to buy vista. Again dvelopers hasn't even begun to tap what dx10 can do so basically we are having games that supports 9 and a little bit of 10 which are minor here and there. All because the audience are still there. Untill we see numbers go up for dx10 users we wont see any progression of dx10 untill those numbers meet their needs of these gaming companies. Otherwise games won't sell. And with this kind of attitude the only thing thats going to happen is push these gaming companies strictly to consoles if they feel not to welcomed.

I think his problem is he doesn't like marketing and money. I am sorry but why do you think they still teach economics???. Games are business too just like everything else in this world. Sure the products may not meet your expectations but they do not suck either. Here is the rule of thumb. You can't please everyone what these companies delivers they are only targeting to those that are interested this is called a business. Sorry to dissapoint but everyone has to make ends meet. it ain't fun and games when you can't make any money. The reality of this not everyone is going to be happy with certain thing or feature of a product especially when you have a platform very open and not to standardized.

And you can also blame those people that refuse to upgrade which only slows down the progression of directx10 so devlopers have no choice but to target where most are at which still in dx9. Now as far as dx10 not available on xp?? this is because dx10 is a brand new architecture that is designed for the next generation hardware and also to try to sell vista. The only problem there is developers didnt get enough time and resources because alot refuse to upgrade to vista because "oh its microsoft typical of them". Haven't you look at the history of directx??. It goes way back to directx 7 so directx10 isn't any new and no this isn't a gimmick or a plot to try to convince you to buy vista. Again dvelopers hasn't even begun to tap what dx10 can do so basically we are having games that supports 9 and a little bit of 10 which are minor here and there. All because the audience are still there. Untill we see numbers go up for dx10 users we wont see any progression of dx10 untill those numbers meet their needs of these gaming companies. Otherwise games won't sell. And with this kind of attitude the only thing thats going to happen is push these gaming companies strictly to consoles if they feel not to welcomed.

MarioJP_

As I've said in my previous post, it's not that those who bought DX 10 cards wasted their money, cause it's clear that the cards are better than DX 9 cards, but I don't think it's worth getting a DX 10 card if you can play only DX 9 games. The sad thing is that it's almost 2 years since DX 10 was released and there hasn't been even one DX 10 only game announced to be in development.:( So that's why I think they shouldn't have released DX 10 yet but they should have released it with their new OS.

So why release Vista and DX 10 cards almost 2 years ago when it will probably take another 2 years to have games for them?:|

[QUOTE="MarioJP_"]

I think his problem is he doesn't like marketing and money. I am sorry but why do you think they still teach economics???. Games are business too just like everything else in this world. Sure the products may not meet your expectations but they do not suck either. Here is the rule of thumb. You can't please everyone what these companies delivers they are only targeting to those that are interested this is called a business. Sorry to dissapoint but everyone has to make ends meet. it ain't fun and games when you can't make any money. The reality of this not everyone is going to be happy with certain thing or feature of a product especially when you have a platform very open and not to standardized.

And you can also blame those people that refuse to upgrade which only slows down the progression of directx10 so devlopers have no choice but to target where most are at which still in dx9. Now as far as dx10 not available on xp?? this is because dx10 is a brand new architecture that is designed for the next generation hardware and also to try to sell vista. The only problem there is developers didnt get enough time and resources because alot refuse to upgrade to vista because "oh its microsoft typical of them". Haven't you look at the history of directx??. It goes way back to directx 7 so directx10 isn't any new and no this isn't a gimmick or a plot to try to convince you to buy vista. Again dvelopers hasn't even begun to tap what dx10 can do so basically we are having games that supports 9 and a little bit of 10 which are minor here and there. All because the audience are still there. Untill we see numbers go up for dx10 users we wont see any progression of dx10 untill those numbers meet their needs of these gaming companies. Otherwise games won't sell. And with this kind of attitude the only thing thats going to happen is push these gaming companies strictly to consoles if they feel not to welcomed.

gs_gear

As I've said in my previous post, it's not that those who bought DX 10 cards wasted their money, cause it's clear that the cards are better than DX 9 cards, but I don't think it's worth getting a DX 10 card if you can play only DX 9 games. The sad thing is that it's almost 2 years since DX 10 was released and there hasn't been even one DX 10 only game announced to be in development.:( So that's why I think they shouldn't have released DX 10 yet but they should have released it with their new OS.

So why release Vista and DX 10 cards almost 2 years ago when it will probably take another 2 years to have games for them?:|

You also forgot to mention that those dx10 cards happens to sport dx9 so you can look at it this way. Even though dx10 is not used much but at least you have a much much faster dx9 card so really theres nothing at a lost here. And also i don't think consoles well maybe for the 360 don't even use directx to some extent. I heard like the ps3 and the wii are using their own proprietary api with dx invloved so i dunno.

And the reason this time most went to consoles because most either gave up pc gaming and wanted something simple or things have changed where they can't longer keep up with pc gaming

But realistically though most have multiplatform systems. I dunno why you guys keep thinking that dx10 suppose to make games look better than 9. Thats a misleading because thats not the primary thing at all. Sure it can enhance games a little being more efficient wise which dx9 can probably still do but not as efficient as dx10. Yes directx 10 might of came too early but it is here now and will see where this goes.

Bumping this since it's quite interesting, and because I finally got back from a camping trip. :P

I wonder why everybody studies economy these days.

domke

Meh, a lot of people only study first year microeconomics 101. They don't continue on to macroeconomics, money and banking or international markets. :/

Even then, most of the people who study micro 101 are accountants or commerce students. Econs students are in a much smaller quantity.

Numbers don't matter unless they actually produce visual results and thus far the results are a minimal improvement over dx9

blacktorn

What numbers are you referring to?

They might of done alot of architectural work with DX10 but if any of that doesn't actually make a substantial difference to games visuals then there's no point in bragging it up.

blacktorn

Which is why I said that everyone here needs to look at the long term.

Do you think it was any different going from DX7 to DX8 or DX8 to DX9?

Give the developers some time.

Wesker, as previously stated lag problems in almost all games related to DX10, this is why the debate still rolls on and we're here talking about it.

wrx

No, "lag" (you mean low FPS?) problems are related to a poorly made game, not DX10.

An unskilled workman blames his tools.

You answered your own question here:

What?

Again, can you try and explain things more thoroughly? I don't even know what you're trying to prove by using G92 and GT200 as an example.

...and of course they (Nvidia) were working on both the G92 and GT200. Chips usually take 2-3 years to design (possibly more for ground up designs), so it's important for a company to schedule multiple teams to multiple projects.

You answered your own question here:

...so what?

IHV's moving to smaller process nodes to make more chips: Oh boy, what a surprise!

And you failed understand this the following so I'll assist you:

Again, where is this magical link that you're only seeing?

How can you compare expansion packs of games to smaller process nodes of silicon manafacturing? :S

donkey

:|

Do you honestly expect me to extract something meaningful out of all that?

Look back at my posts, and read carefully. You made some bizarre (it probably made sense in your mind) comparisons.

Your claim is that all companies make the best product they can then ship it out. If this were the case then I wouldn't see Corolla LE, Corolla S, Corolla XRS now would I. Like I said it's marketing, market a low end product then sell upgrades for it.

donkey

I haven't even looked into this situation, but have you ever thought that maybe Toyota was targetting niche markets with no products? Go to a new market, earn positive economics profits, differentiate your product once competition enters to earn positive economic profits again and then rinse and repeat.

If you do in fact go to a university for economics then maybe you should get a refund on your education because they aren't giving you the tools necessary to understand capitalism. Then again you did say that you're not American, and with your lack of understanding of capitalism then I suspect your the poor soul of a communist economy.

donkey

:roll:

Wow, you're so intelligent and mature!

Ranting on about communists, think that America is the only country with an education system and you've got "head in arse" syndrome--were you home schooled? Rather, are you still being home schooled?

Once you've pulled your head out of your arse, can you actually be more civilised?

For further digestion on your part since you're a little slow and using your DX10 mind, with flowery language and misc. rhetoric I'll assist you once again. Great case study on this marketing tactic is Subaru & Mitsubishi and the battle between the two companies to hold onto a sports car niche; I'll even through honda in there as a bonus for your DX10 mind.

donkey

...do you even read the **** that you type up?

In 2002 Subaru released the WRX, this was coinciding with the launch of the EVO 8. Subaru beat Mitsu to the punch though and they released a 2.0L 235hp boxer engine. They already knew Mitsu's evo was 275hp and beating them on both power and handling. The cars at first were very similar in price $24k & $27k. There's a great article in Road & Track of the Detroit Auto show where Mitsu releases the EVO, then Subaru announces the 2.5L 300hp boxer, just slightly increasing the performance over the EVO. This was done intentionally, and Subaru held out to release it to crush EVO sales and hopefully persuading buyers to go back to Subaru. The 2.5L was the natural first choice of Subaru, but once again [...]

donkey

...you just proved EVERYTHING that was I was saying in regards to competition. Thanks, you saved me from typing up an example and explanation. ;)

Competition has provided the market with the best product. Your example is straight from micro 101 text book. The one highlight from this is how smart Subaru's executives and engineers were.

This is the same with DX10, why didn't they include these fantastic DX11 items in DX10, it's not because the technology isn't there, it's certainly not because the hardware wasn't there. donkey

:|

Do you even know who or how the DirectX specifications are set?

So Wesker...hopefully I've been able to thoroughly connect the dots for you, if not then please upgrade your DX10 brain to DX11....or come back down to DX9 with the rest of us, and your brain will run smoother and faster.

donkey

You've connected the dots alright; you've shown me how clueless and ignorant you are. Well done.

I honestly thought that this was going to be a civil conversation, but as soon as you insulted my education (which I take quite seriously), I realised that you're just idiot #489127 on the internet. Good job!