Dont buy Evolve.... here is why

Beta wasn't even fun to me so there's no surprise..

There are a couple, but they are rare.

Grey Goo, its not available for pre-order but launches in 12 hours on STEAM. They (the devs) don't really care for the idea of pre-ordering a game.

Yes they have started work on "DLC" but this "DLC" is more like an expansion pack of the old days. (I just think they use the term DLC as an arching term) The "DLC" is said to include an entirely different race and missions. This would be close to what something like Yuri's Revenge did to Red Alert 2. (an example that these particular devs did) All that being said, it will not be anywhere near Day 1 DLC.

These are the devs that use to release expansion packs, as most of the team behind Grey Goo is the old Westwood Studios team. (including Frank Klepacki as the composer)

Grey Goo, I am looking forward to. Hell, I was looking forward to Evolve, but when I read about the DLC stuff a week, or so, ago I decided to pass on it until a major sale on a GOTY edition (or whatever edition comes with all the crap for a decent price) Though to be honest I may never get around to playing it, as there are more interesting games to play now than we could ever get around to properly enjoying.

This is really the whole crux of the matter. The DLC Evolve will sell is no different than DLC for any other game. In fact, they're doing it in such a way as to not split the community up. All map and game modes will be free for everyone.

Anyone noticed gamespot just removed an evolve article posted today on the main page about how turtlerock is defending their DLC bs ?

Paid much, gamespot ?

You mean this article that can still be found under the game page for Evolve?

@airshocker:

It's on the page of evolve, not on the main page, which it was a few hours ago.

And looks like my post got deleted too, thankfully I copy paste it before posting, nice try gamespot.

Here is my take on Evolve.

I loved the beta, I had a complete blast with it and it left me wanting more when the beta ended. Even tho the game is alot of fun, it's a pretty basic game with few content. Now i'm not saying that's a bad thing, sometimes when you try to do too much well, you end up with complete trash like battlefield 4. I'm saying it's hard to justify it's price. For me the game isn't worth more than 39.99$, and in that price I also included the overpriced DLC characters. 2 hunters and 1 monster for 30$ ? That's half of what the f'in game cost ffs.

TRS are claiming they don't want to block people out of content but they are doing exactly so, I mean one of the main asset of the game is to play as different types of monsters/hunters, keeping a few characters being a paywall greatly disminish the game's content. And their excuse they came up with was something like "we didn't have time to finish those characters so they are not in the game". Ok sooo if you did manage to finish the game in time like you were supposed to, we would of got them for free, but because you didn't you are making us pay for it ? Plus there is a monster who is available only via pre-order ? Sorry but no.

I don't plan on getting evolve until I see the complete game at a fair price, and I don't know how long it will keep me interested when I do get it, but lots of things are worrying me, like will there still be alot of people playing when they finaly price it like it should of been ? The people who will still be playing will mostly be pros and will I get my ass handed to me everytime I play ?

Buttom line the game could be huge, but they are going at it the wrong way and pissing off alot of customer, I want it both to fail and succeed at the same time, first because I did love it when I played it, and second because of the horrible distribution of the game.

And it's in the news section, too! Man! What a conspiracy!

The basic game comes with 12 hunters, 3 monsters, 16 maps, 4 or 5 modes, social play modes, and a campaign. If that's not worth 59.99, I don't know what is.

What TRS actually said is they don't want to split the community, which is why all maps and modes in the future will be free. If you want to play as a specific hunter/monster you need to buy the DLC that allows you to do that in the future. That's just like DLC every where. No monster is available only through pre-order, please stop lying. You are only perpetuating misinformation. The monster expansion pack is being given to those who preorder for free. It will be available to purchase for $14.99 if you don't decide to preorder.

Of course people who have played the game much more than you have a better chance at beating you. Every other game in existence is like that.

The real problem here is customers who don't know what it is they're talking about, which accounts for a lot of people in this thread, including yourself.

Notice how I put a "?" at the end of the pre-order bonus, like I wasn't sure about it and not confirming there was a pre-order only monster ? So you can come down from the curtains. And are you an employe or stockholder of TRS or something ? Only a damn fool would welcome and applaud DLC.

"12 hunters, 3 monsters, 16 maps, 4 or 5 modes, social play modes, and a campaign", that's worth 59.99, how would you even know if it's worth it, did you play the full game already ? Are you bored of the same 3 monsters after playing them for 3 weeks ? Do you like only 3-4 hunters from the dozen they give you ? I played the game and the maps are small and similar, I couldn't even tell if I was playing a different map or if it was always the same everytime. They can give us 50 maps if they want down the line only a handful will be really good and people will only paly those, like in any other fps games. There might be 3 different hunters for each class but few offer any real variations between them.

Of course people who plays more will be better than me, i'm not saying it's not fair, i'm saying it's a turn off when you get into a game and get your ass ended to you by someone who knows everything about it. Which is people who get the game later on will drop it even faster than the people who got it at launch making the online community a few hundreds strong.

And I know TRS said they didn't want to split the community by stopping people from joining games with new maps and modes. I wasn't talking about that. I was talking about this : http://ca.ign.com/articles/2015/01/16/turtle-rock-addresses-community-concern-about-the-evovle-dlc-model

"If we thought we could have finished all those monsters and hunters for ship we would have put them in the box." But they didn't finish the game in time, so now we are paying extra money for them.

But yea, I have no idea what i'm talking about... Stop thinking your better than you really are.

You obviously let that lack of knowledge color how you feel about the game. "Sorry but no" pretty much says all that it needs to. I don't mind DLC. Just like I don't mind expansion packs. There is essentially no difference between the two.

How would you know that it isn't? I actually like all of the hunters. My favorite include Hyde, Bucket, Val, and Cabot. First off, you didn't play all 16 of the maps. No one in the alpha/beta has. Uhm, in what way are Bucket, Hank and Cabot similar? Only Hank has the shield generator. Only Cabot has the dust bomb to track the monster, and only Bucket has the UAV. Neither of them even have the same weapon! And that goes for ALL of the hunters. You clearly don't know what you're talking about.

That sounds like a personal problem. If you don't want to be out-classed, don't wait to buy the game.

So what, they couldn't finish all of the hunters they wanted to. How many other games don't finish features that they want to do and introduce them later as DLC? Not many. Most of them wait until the sequel.

You really don't seem like you know what you're talking about if you think the hunters are only minor variations to each other.

This turned into bit of an lengthy inane rant so I'll prelude it with this: I'm sure there are people who are perfectly fine paying $60 a multiplayer experience that will grow to become incomplete. But that's not the case for me at all. All the games I find myself coming back to are the ones that offer the full experience up-front (M&B: Warband, CS:GO, Starcraft, Street Fighter, etc.). These games are great because I can always go back and play them, and I never have to pay extra money just to fully enjoy the games I already paid for. They are wholesome and I can feel good about playing them, particularly when I know I'm not missing out on anything compared to people who have more money than me.

Now - could you imagine how shitty it would be if you had to pay additional money in L4D2 to play as all the monster classes? Or have to pay extra money to use all the weapons in Counter-Strike? You could make absolutely all the same arguments defending the inclusion of those ideas as you're using here to defend Evolve, but I don't think anyone would deny that L4D2/CS would have been much worse games for it. Reflecting back on it, I certainly would NOT have paid additional money for more infected classes, and I would have avoided L4D2 altogether if such an idea was implemented. Same for Counter-Strike. If you can see why that would be the straw that broke the camel's back in these cases, then you can see why this would be the straw that broke the camel's back in this situation.

There's no way I can look at Evolve and think "this is a complete game" if I have to pay more $60 to experience everything the game has to offer from a gameplay perspective. It feels much more akin to a watered-down F2P game where they're always encouraging you to spend more money. Every time I see the game, I'll be thinking "Hmm, I wonder what they're cutting from it at this moment to sell me down the line", followed by "Where will this slippery slope end?".

I suspect Valve would never do anything like this because it's just a shitty idea and makes customers feel shitty. $15 should get you a bunch of maps, weapons, classes, etc. if it's supposed to resemble what gamers are used to as DLC or an expansion pack. $15 for a single class? That's just plain rip off. Doesn't sound like any DLC I've heard of before. Seems on the surface more like something big that was stripped from the original plan of the game. So 3 months down the line, the game is $75 just to get all of the gameplay elements? And then it's $90 3 months later on? Seems just a little ridiculous. The majority of consumers aren't a fan of big game features to be sold to them down the line, they like them upfront.

Pressuring preorders by offering $15 of extra game features is slimy enough. They seem awfully desperate to sell the game to people before it gets reviewed...

"Have a problem with our practices? Just pay us now and we'll spare you the initial $15 fee for the complete experience (for a few months...)". Last time I heard that pitch, it was from a "Get rich quick" scheme. If they offered the classes for free and charged for additional maps and game modes just like every other developer in the world, I'd have zero issues with it. I'm perfectly okay paying $60 without getting all the maps. But paying $60 just to have the content that you didn't pay for to be rubbed in your face is fucking lame. I could potentially go on forever about why it's such a lame idea. Why should anyone even give the game a legitimate chance when it's just an opportunity to potentially get milked? Even if I had fun with the beta, I'm forced to avoid this game entirely based on principle alone. For all I know, it'll cost $100+ to keep up with the content as the year passes. I don't really feel like that's a risk worth taking, particularly when every other game on the market gives you everything crucial to the main experience for $60 or less.

You're making some pretty weak comparisons. Firstly, L4D2's mode where you played as the infected is a relatively small part of the game. It's nothing like Evolve selling you a different monster character to play as. Secondly, your CS:GO analogy isn't appropriate. Monsters aren't weapons, they are characters. Maybe if they were trying to sell DLC that unlocked specific monster abilities, I could see where you are heading, but they aren't.

Well, considering this DLC isn't even out day one, buying the game includes everything you're going to get for the immediate future. So whether or not you see it as a complete game is immaterial. It is a complete game at release. The downloadable content will expand to it. And there's nothing wrong with that.

You're making some pretty weak comparisons. Firstly, L4D2's mode where you played as the infected is a relatively small part of the game.

I think you have it backwards. Versus was actually the meat of the multiplayer aspect of the game of L4D2. The coop elements of the game are very short-lived and basically served as practice. You can experience everything L4D's coop has to offer in one night - very little happening there. Not only was there not a ton of coop content - any experienced L4D player could breeze through the coop with their eyes closed. Versus was clearly where the bulk of the multiplayer gameplay was happening. The majority of people who spent a lot of time in that game's multiplayer did so in Versus. The coop part of the game was for friends who wanted to casually get together and have some fun for a couple hours, but that's about it. The coop mode had no real incentive for replayability, competition, etc. Versus mode, on the other hand, was what you'd play if put a lot of time into L4D.

Regardless of how popular you think L4D's versus mode was in relation to the coop mode, my point's the same - people would have undoubtedly rioted over them charging for playable infected classes because there were absolutely tons of people who played that game just for the Versus, like myself.

Secondly, your CS:GO analogy isn't appropriate. Monsters aren't weapons, they are characters. Maybe if they were trying to sell DLC that unlocked specific monster abilities, I could see where you are heading, but they aren't.

What difference does that make? You seem to be splitting hairs here. Each monster is nothing more than an amalgamation of abilities and weapons. You are paying for more weapons and abilities, I'm not sure how you could argue it any other way. My point was if you could pay for more weapons and abilities in L4D/CS, these games wouldn't be held in such high esteem by the community.

Well, considering this DLC isn't even out day one, buying the game includes everything you're going to get for the immediate future. So whether or not you see it as a complete game is immaterial. It is a complete game at release. The downloadable content will expand to it. And there's nothing wrong with that.

Everything is wrong with someone's multiplayer experience being degraded as time goes on. Maps being released that I can't play doesn't effect my MP experience. But being killed by people who have access to features I don't because they have more money than me effects my MP experience very negatively.

I really like TRS and the work they've done so far so I don't want to disparage them because of something that may be forced onto them by their publisher. I know they're great developers and if anyone could make this work, they could. I'm also sure there are tons of people who don't consider playing with people who have unlocked classes that they lack access to as a "negative experience". The only reason why I consider it to be a negative experience is because the only other types of games where that sort of thing happens are F2P games, and having a paid game feel similar to F2P ones really cheapens the experience. Just my opinion. But I know many other people share this view otherwise they wouldn't be so disappointed with the way Evolve is being released.

I don't think DLC is the devil. I just think there was benevolent and kind ways to release DLC, and then there are more malevolent and meaner ways to go about it. Many people are still used to publishers/developers who love their community and look for excuses to give them free things (Valve, Blizzard, Tripwire, some others). What TRS/2K is doing with Evolve is a very stark contrast to what we'd see from Valve. Why charge for so much for a gameplay feature that could've been included for free and enticed more people to buy the game? Instead they're now dwelling in all this negative publicity and bad vibes - which is probably why those loved publisher/developer combos avoid making those kinds of moves.

It makes a big difference. You aren't paying for more weapons or abilities. You only play as one monster at a time. If you're playing as Goliath, the fact that you don't own the Behemoth DLC is meaningless. You can't use Behemoth's abilities while playing the Kraken. So why exactly does it matter? Maps that you can't play certainly affects your multiplayer experience. If less and less people are playing the maps only you own in say BF4, how do you expect to find games?

What features will you have when playing against the Behemoth that you wouldn't have against the Goliath, the Kraken, or the Wraith? None. So I'm not sure what point you're trying to make with that second to last paragraph.

I honestly think those of you who are upset about this are overreacting.

This is no different from any other game that has DLC. Except maybe the fact that you don't have to buy anything other than the base game to have fun with it.

And in Counter-Strike, you only hold one primary gun at a time. And in L4D, you only play as one infected monster at a time. You're paying to play as a monster who has more weapons and abilities that you don't have access to.

It makes a big difference. You only play as one monster at a time - so what? In Counter-Strike, you hold one primary weapon at a time. In L4D's versus, you control one infected at a time. Valve charging for new weapons or new infected monsters in L4D would be absolutely no different. It just creates options for people who have more money.

If you're playing as Goliath, the fact that you don't own the Behemoth DLC is meaningless. You can't use Behemoth's abilities while playing the Kraken. So why exactly does it matter?

It means there's a class with a bunch abilities and attacks that you're able to do, having spent $15 or preordered, that you wouldn't have otherwise. It matters because essentially it feels like you aren't experiencing the full game when you're interacting directly with players who can show off the additional content they paid for right in front of you, and then use their paid content to kill you. That's something that only typically happens in a F2P game. How balanced it is doesn't even matter. I'm just saying that I think it cheapens the experience.

Maps that you can't play certainly affects your multiplayer experience. If less and less people are playing the maps only you own in say BF4, how do you expect to find games?

There are always servers that don't play the DLC maps. In fact, the DLC maps aren't even all that popular. The release of DLC effectively only limits the amount of servers I can choose from, but usually there is always free maps to play, so my experience isn't effected in the least. On the other hand, if there was classes in BF4 that I had to pay to unlock, then my experience is basically being effected every single time I play the game.

What features will you have when playing against the Behemoth that you wouldn't have against the Goliath, the Kraken, or the Wraith? None. So I'm not sure what point you're trying to make with that second to last paragraph.

If you get to play as the Behemoth, you'll have the blatant advantage of knowing how to handle that monster in an adversarial situation after having played the monster yourself. Similar to how in L4D2, if you play as the Boomer a lot, then you're able to much easier kill other Boomer players because you understand the strategies and tricks they're going to employ. Advantages aside, there are no features you'd have playing against the Behemoth - it's merely the idea that the you're interacting with content that you have no access to, as I said, having it "rubbed in my face".

This is no different from any other game that has DLC. Except maybe the fact that you don't have to buy anything other than the base game to have fun with it.

Except for the fact it's the only DLC I'm aware of that exists for a paid game that gives you classes? Usually DLC is game content that lets you further enjoy the features the game came with. It's never really been about releasing classes that lets you better enjoy the content that already shipped with the game. It's a lot different that way.

I honestly think those of you who are upset about this are overreacting.

I agree that Jim Sterling was overreacting. And people who think TRS/2K are evil. But I still see the points that people are trying to make. If I actually liked Evolve a lot more, I'd consider myself upset, but I don't really care that much either way. Just trying to analyze the situation because DLC is a sticky subject. I'm not dead-set in my position and I see how it shouldn't really effect anyone not being able to play as ability monster classes (as there's no direct advantage by having an additional class to choose from), but I must admit it's at the least, annoying.

I think the safe way to think about it is this way: people aren't satisfied with the amount of content Evolve launches with, and they don't want to have to pay for more to get it. I honestly think the game probably should ship with more Monster classes rather than less, the game honestly feels pretty barebones for a $60 title. Add to the fact that this seemingly bare-bones games has most of its features and content planned via DLC and it's pretty easy to see why people are upset.

That's a funny thing. I just got through playing Titanfall about a half an hour ago and had a blast. There was no shortage of people to play with. I usually see a few hundred online playing attrition. That's plenty enough to enjoy the game. Titanfall is not dead on the PC. However, I'm not sure I'm gonna get Evolve after hearing about the DLC mania. Even if I do, I will never buy the DLC content. I haven't even bought any of the DLC for Titanfall, and I love that game.

i'm down with having standard edition and a season pass edition. anything past that is bullshit. the season pass edition then TRULY must include everything they release after the initial release.

then again, i was never interested in Evolve anyway. i love online shooters, but that 4vs1 just doesn't interest me. it should've been 4vs4 with less powerful monsters imo. it does look innovative though, but i'm gonna have to pass this one.

So owning the Behemoth DLC or not makes no difference if you're playing as a different Monster or the hunters. As the hunters you'll still face the Behemoth even if you don't own the DLC. I'm not seeing what the issue is here. Nobody gets an advantage by having the Monster expansion pack. They simply get another choice in which Monster to play.

There are, but not even you can argue that players don't migrate to the new maps once they release. You're comparing apples and oranges here. Having to buy classes in BF4 would ruin the competition of the game. Having to buy the Behemoth in Evolve doesn't. It simply gives you another Monster to choose from.

And so will you once you play against that Monster a few times.

This content also lets you further enjoy the game by being able to play as a different Monster. How is this any different from CoH 2 selling the ability to play as Americans, or any other game that offers DLC to play from a different perspective in a game?

You are entirely within your rights to think that way, but I don't.

you arent seeing what the issue is.... with selling a game that is purely designed to peddle DLC.... withholding content from the game just for preorders.... having 5 different versions of the game at release that offer drastically different levels of content?

boy.... you sure dont like getting value for your money.

It's not purely designed to peddle DLC. It was designed to be built on, which is pretty admirable considering the amount of triple A titles we get which are purely designed with sequels in mind.

The content isn't being withheld from those who don't preorder. The Monster Expansion Pack will be sold separately for those who don't preorder.

I'm getting a lot of value for my money. Three monsters, twelve hunters, sixteen maps, and multiple game modes including a campaign is worth 59.99 to me.

"designed to be built on" is marketing for "designed to peddle DLC"

FYI... the campaign is just the multiplayer maps, and you just play rounds of the same game as multiplayer... but with AI Bots, or friends. its the same as Titanfall's campaign....

my oh my airshocker, you bought the scam hook, line and sinker.

i think it is easy to say that Evolve is the first AAA scam of 2015....

It's a distinction without a difference.

Who gives a shit? Nobody played Titanfall for the story. They played it for the MP. The same will be true for Evolve. I'm glad they didn't waste too much of their time with the story.

You call everything you don't like a scam so it really doesn't matter what you think.

quite probably the first time i have ever even used the word scam on these forums.

You use the word scam in reference to Star Citizen almost every chance you get.

You almost always call Kickstarter or Early Access titles scams.

Had little interest (because LF4D games grow boring very quickly) and now have no interest.

It's sure as sht easy to say "you don't know what you're talking". Well guess what, YOU don't know what you're talking about. You're getting buried alive here, if I were you i would of stopped reply trying to justify this overpriced game about 4-5 posts ago. But you know what, buy the game, hell buy all 3 versions of the game to make sure you throw away all the money that you can, what do I give a sht for.

i almost never comment on kickstarter or early access threads.... unless it is DayZ or Star Citizen

i *may* have called star citizen a scam in the past.... my objections usually revolve around pay to win, and not scam though, so i am dubious.

I have no issues with proving idiots wrong.

Yeah, it's pretty easy to say when you prove you don't actually know what you're talking about.

Nice backpedaling.

So you don't almost never comment. You comment quite frequently and make yourself out to be someone whose opinion isn't really valued.

It's not even that I disagree with you. I disagree with KH all of the time, but at least he makes sense.

i said it was quite possibly the first time i have used the word scam....

which i followed up with i *may* have used it in reference to start citizen....

quite possibly is not 100%.... may does not mean positively....

reading comprehension.... its a valuable thing.

Having a decent memory is also a valuable thing.

oh yeah totally i know... i should totally remember the hundreds of posts that i have made on here word for word... i mean, what was i thinking not spending hours memorizing in painstaking detail everything i have ever said on this forum....

GOD... you have shown me the error of my ways airshocker.

>Jim Shilling

guess you are mad that he is right?

Well plenty of people are buying into it so blame them I guess; you can actually get the game for £22 in my country now if you know where to shop, not really a lot of money and as for the DLC it will all be on steam for next to nothing eventually.

Or you could not make statements if you can't actually back them up.

I would buy Evolve for less than $10

I won't support this practice, seems far out!!!

"i said it was quite possibly the first time i have used the word scam....

which i followed up with i *may* have used it in reference to start citizen....

quite possibly is not 100%.... may does not mean positively...."

backed up my comment as well as anyone could possibly back up there comment without pouring through hundreds of posts... like you seem to suggest is necessary.

how about you get off my nuts airshocker. i would be happy to do a week long campaign on everything you post and point out every single comment that you make without backup it up. would you like me to do that?

hope you do your research on every word that you type. i want the latin roots of everything, their definitions, alternate meanings.... i also want links to sources and confirmations for every point you make. and not just wikipedia sources... these have to be from scientific journals with legitimate academic research. otherwise, you arent backing up what you are saying. i mean really, without all that research, how is anyone supposed to be able to interpret your words?

Back pedal all you want, cylon. The point is that if you can't even remember the things you say on an internet forum, where your views can and will be held against you, you probably shouldn't be posting.

I'll still be here to point out every nonsensical thing you say and to hold you accountable for them.

look out guys... we have a badass over here. *rolls eyes*

You sure do love your red herrings.

get more mad that i am point out that you are being an asshole just to be an asshole.

we sure do love your hypocrisy

Nothing you say to me makes me even slightly angry. Try harder. If pointing out your insanity makes me an asshole, well then I guess I'm an asshole.

Exactly what am I being hypocritical about?

so to get this thread back on track and ignore airshocker's assholery...

Dont buy Evolve....

unless you WANT to support devs creating games that are just vectors for selling DLC, rather than making games to be games. if you WANT that... then go to hell.

Good to know that you just talk out of your ass 100% of the time.

Can't even tell me what I'm being hypocritical about. rofl.

But you don't have to BUY the DLC. If I bought Battlefield right now or Call of Duty I HAVE to buy the DLC to play with my friends who have been playing for awhile now. Evolve makes it so I do not have to do that. I already mentioned my dislike for announcing a monster as DLC before the game was shown but there DLC plan is probably one of the better multiplayer based DLC plans i've seen so far.

Incorrect.

You don't have to buy the DLC for BF or COD, you can just keep playing the normal maps. And yes, there are plenty still playing the original maps.

Last time I checked I'm the one who decides on how I spend money, with that out of the way I'm gonna buy Evolve cause not only did I love the L4D games I loved the Evolve beta (playing as the monster was actually kinda fun).

It's pretty sad how entitled gamers are now and days, Evolves DLC practices are now where as bad as Capcoms DLC practices or those day 1 DLC's.

first of all, nobody was telling you what to do... merely pointing out the facts, so get off your high horse there jack-off.

and second, i hope you are happy with your purchase 5 years from now when games are just shells and you have to buy each feature piecemeal just to get a complete game. you are supporting that practice after all. enjoy!

That's if I can find the server to play on (Battlefield) most of the time its servers outside of the US for me... which is a no go. Call of duty use to just boot you out of the game but I haven't purchased a call of duty game in a long time so its probably different now.