Dragon Age 2, the spiritual successor to Mass Effect 2

Well after years of gaming i sure can recognize not just a great RPG, but i can also recognize an RPG. And this my friend with that kind of combat and Mass Effect like game mechanics is starting to look less and less like one. Even previews are comparing it to GOW or even Ninja Gaiden.

Are you aware that when you press the attack button there is no waiting and no roll...Instant attack happens, no turn based combat. If that's not enough to tell you what this game is turning into then i don't know.

[QUOTE="GeneralShowzer"]

Well after years of gaming i sure can recognize not just a great RPG, but i can also recognize an RPG. And this my friend with that kind of combat and Mass Effect like game mechanics is starting to look less and less like one. Even previews are comparing it to GOW or even Ninja Gaiden.

Are you aware that when you press the attack button there is no waiting and no roll...Instant attack happens, no turn based combat. If that's not enough to tell you what this game is turning into then i don't know.

Prexxus

Here's what Laidlaw said in an interview ABOUT THE PC version.

"What I never felt was that my orders were being followed in that they weren't orders so much as suggestions. Alistair would kind of move up, get in position, then attack, and I was like, 'Dude, get up their with your sword and hit the guy," he explains.

"So what I basically said to the combat team was, 'Let's get the feeling of when I press a button, something awesome happens.' Not just eventually it will happen. I want to fire off nice and early. So we had to restructure a fair number of the abilities."

OR NO TURN BASED COMBAT! So no I'm not a damn liar.

It's been said many times that they added new animations to the auto attacks and skills to make it look more fluid but it's still turned based. It's not button mashing madness at all. They just added a bunch of swinging / combat animations to make it look more realistic/quicker.

Alot of the time you have valid points and opinions Showzer, but I'm telling you now, it's still turn based. This fact was stated MANY times on the official boards by devs.

[QUOTE="SkyWard20"] and what great rpg have you played recently, dare I ask?-wildflower-

Great RPGs? Recently? Like in the past 5 or so years? From a Big Developer? :lol:

There have been some decent RPGs (DA:O being one of them) and a few good ones (The Witcher and NWN2: Mask of the Betrayer come to mind) but there hasn't been a great RPG released in about 10 years or so, at least not one from a mainstream developer. Modern (so-called) RPGs are now being designed for twitch-gamers and people who actually don't like RPGs who need an endless stream of shiny cut-scenes and the ability to press a button and have "something cool happen."

At least there are indie developers willing to step up and fill the void while the big companies continue pandering to the lowest common denominator. Age of Decadence and Dead State can't get here soon enough as far as I'm concerned but until then there's still things like the Eschalon games, Spider Web Software games and the odd, decent, big-name release like FO:NV to keep me occupied.

It's all good.

You assume two different things with this:

1) that appealing to the majority always results in inferior gameplay when compared to appealing to a niche.

2) that all developers focus on one common, main attraction in their games, yet Bethesda games are miles away different from BioWare games, yet both are popular and sell.

But never mind, you couldn't have made it more obvious as to how worthless it is to argue with you when you said that indie games are superior to big-budget titles.

It's been said many times that they added new animations to the auto attacks and skills to make it look more fluid but it's still turned based. It's not button mashing madness at all. They just added a bunch of swinging / combat animations to make it look more realistic/quicker.

Alot of the time you have valid points and opinions Showzer, but I'm telling you now, it's still turn based. This fact was stated MANY times on the official boards by devs.

Prexxus

How dare you question the mainstream public . Everything that's mainstream must be good!

Bioware really needs to just stop talking, really. Every bit of news they release about this game just makes it sound worse and worse. I know I'll be passing on this one at least until the ultimate-game-of-the-year-diamond edition hits the bargain bin for $9 or so. What a shame too. DA:O, while definitely not a great game, restored a little of the faith I had lost in Bioware.

Bioware is now EA's lapdog and a console developer pure and simple.

-wildflower-

How dare you question the mainstream public . Everything that's mainstream must be good!

GeneralShowzer

Wow, you hate mainstream games and love indie games, who would have guessed. Most indie games suck anyway.

You assume two different things with this:

1) that appealing to the majority always results in inferior gameplay when compared to appealing to a niche.

2) that all developers focus on one common, main attraction in their games, yet Bethesda games are miles away different from BioWare games, yet both are popular and sell.

But never mind, you couldn't have made it more obvious as to how worthless it is to argue with you when you said that indie games are superior to big-budget titles.

SkyWard20

And how equally pointless it is to debate with you.

If it's a big budget, over-hyped, new game made by Bioware, Bethesda, etc., you'll be all over it, knee-pads and body armor on, shouting how great the game is to anyone who will listen yet always deferring your own opinion (assuming you can actually form one for yourself, that is) to all of "the great reviews" and "game of the year awards" and "big sales figures" and whatever other logical fallacy your tack-like mind conjures up as actual supporting evidence.

Whatever, enjoy your McGames and Michale Bay movies. Honestly, I couldn't care less what you think about anything.

No one said that. It's just that the best video games tend to be popular because they're good. Not the other way around. They've earned it.

SkyWard20

The Guitar Hero and Rock Band games are a prime example of games that I think that are absolutely horrible yet they still sold like hotcakes. Doesn't mean that they are good or that they have "earned it".

[QUOTE="SkyWard20"]

Wow, you hate mainstream games and love indie games, who would have guessed. Most indie games suck anyway.

You assume two different things with this:

1) that appealing to the majority always results in inferior gameplay when compared to appealing to a niche.

2) that all developers focus on one common, main attraction in their games, yet Bethesda games are miles away different from BioWare games, yet both are popular and sell.

But never mind, you couldn't have made it more obvious as to how worthless it is to argue with you when you said that indie games are superior to big-budget titles.

-wildflower-

And how equally pointless it is to debate with you.

If it's a big budget, over-hyped, new game made by Bioware, Bethesda, etc., you'll be all over it, knee-pads and body armor on, shouting how great the game is to anyone who will listen yet always deferring your own opinion (assuming you can actually form one for yourself, that is) to all of "the great reviews" and "game of the year awards" and "big sales figures" and whatever other logical fallacy your tack-like mind conjures up as actual supporting evidence.

Whatever, enjoy your McGames and Michale Bay movies. Honestly, I couldn't care less what you think about anything.

[QUOTE="-wildflower-"]

[QUOTE="SkyWard20"]

Wow, you hate mainstream games and love indie games, who would have guessed. Most indie games suck anyway.

You assume two different things with this:

1) that appealing to the majority always results in inferior gameplay when compared to appealing to a niche.

2) that all developers focus on one common, main attraction in their games, yet Bethesda games are miles away different from BioWare games, yet both are popular and sell.

But never mind, you couldn't have made it more obvious as to how worthless it is to argue with you when you said that indie games are superior to big-budget titles.

SkyWard20

And how equally pointless it is to debate with you.

If it's a big budget, over-hyped, new game made by Bioware, Bethesda, etc., you'll be all over it, knee-pads and body armor on, shouting how great the game is to anyone who will listen yet always deferring your own opinion (assuming you can actually form one for yourself, that is) to all of "the great reviews" and "game of the year awards" and "big sales figures" and whatever other logical fallacy your tack-like mind conjures up as actual supporting evidence.

Whatever, enjoy your McGames and Michale Bay movies. Honestly, I couldn't care less what you think about anything.

You could turn it around and say...

Why should one take a CHANCE when you can have up to 100m$ put into it?

Im not saying all devs follow the "main stream = god" mantra. But alot of them do... And tbh there is nothing wrong with indie games. Indie games can take a chance and they have to. Why? Because to get into the top they need to take chances so that they stick out.

A bigger budget attracts the most creative talent in all things. It is simple logic.SkyWard20

A bigger budget demands higher sales. Creativity doesn't lead to more sales - if anything, it can alienate the casual audience. Creativity is a risk, and the bigger the budget the more the need to minimise that risk.

So a bigger budget usually means that the creative talent is forced to jump through hoops, follow the orders of the marketing teams, and dumb down their games for a wider appeal (for example, Activision wanted Brutal Legend to be a Guitar Hero game).

Creative talent gets fed up, and if they're really creative, they go off and form indie teams. We look to indie teams for creativity. It is simple logic. :P

[QUOTE="SkyWard20"]A bigger budget attracts the most creative talent in all things. It is simple logic.Planeforger

A bigger budget demands higher sales. Creativity doesn't lead to more sales - if anything, it can alienate the casual audience. Creativity is a risk, and the bigger the budget the more the need to minimise that risk.

So a bigger budget usually means that the creative talent is forced to jump through hoops, follow the orders of the marketing teams, and dumb down their games for a wider appeal (for example, Activision wanted Brutal Legend to be a Guitar Hero game).

Creative talent gets fed up, and if they're really creative, they go off and form indie teams. We look to indie teams for creativity. It is simple logic. :P

[QUOTE="Planeforger"]

[QUOTE="SkyWard20"]A bigger budget attracts the most creative talent in all things. It is simple logic.SkyWard20

A bigger budget demands higher sales. Creativity doesn't lead to more sales - if anything, it can alienate the casual audience. Creativity is a risk, and the bigger the budget the more the need to minimise that risk.

So a bigger budget usually means that the creative talent is forced to jump through hoops, follow the orders of the marketing teams, and dumb down their games for a wider appeal (for example, Activision wanted Brutal Legend to be a Guitar Hero game).

Creative talent gets fed up, and if they're really creative, they go off and form indie teams. We look to indie teams for creativity. It is simple logic. :P

Ewwww.

[QUOTE="SkyWard20"][QUOTE="Planeforger"]

A bigger budget demands higher sales. Creativity doesn't lead to more sales - if anything, it can alienate the casual audience. Creativity is a risk, and the bigger the budget the more the need to minimise that risk.

So a bigger budget usually means that the creative talent is forced to jump through hoops, follow the orders of the marketing teams, and dumb down their games for a wider appeal (for example, Activision wanted Brutal Legend to be a Guitar Hero game).

Creative talent gets fed up, and if they're really creative, they go off and form indie teams. We look to indie teams for creativity. It is simple logic. :P

F1_2004

Except Dragon Age: Origins is Bioware's best-selling game to date...not Mass Effect 2.

[QUOTE="F1_2004"][QUOTE="SkyWard20"] creativity doesn't mean more or less complex.the_ChEeSe_mAn2

Except Dragon Age: Origins is Bioware's best-selling game to date...not Mass Effect 2.

[QUOTE="KalDurenik"]

Lol i remember when they said "Dragon Age origins = Baldurs gate 2 spiritual successor"

Then they failed so hard :(...

Now they moved over to Mass Effect... Well atleast they wont have to keep the standards as high then.

Basicly i wished Bioware would take the game forward... Instead they take steps backwards...

*Less stratedgy in battles

*Conversation wheel (i want to know what MY character will say)

*Less choices on looks, stats, skills...

*The game will be shorter...

Oh well... Atleast we will get DLC (BLERGH).

SkyWard20

[QUOTE="Dantus12"] This is the PC version. madrocketeer

I actually enjoyed the Mass Effect series a lot...but not every game has to be Mass Effect. Variety would be nice...Its nice to have a streamlined RPG to play (Mass Effect) but its also nice to have the choice to play a deeper RPG experience (what DA should be).mirgamer

Gave me a headache to be honest when I noticed it.The frustrating thing is that I did read some previews of the PC version.The descriptions where button mashing on keybord keep hitting 1,2,3,4.Tactics obsolete,which I somehow noticed in ME2,it was way easier to just cover and shoot,than apply any kind off strategy.At moments I was forgetting in ME2 that I have biotics,because of the cooldowns,and the general pace of the game.Wasn`t happening in ME.

Might be just the speed,I did not specifically mind the ammo changes.

They never showcased ME2 on PC,not really expecting to see real gameplay on PC.Hope I`m wrong.

[QUOTE="F1_2004"][QUOTE="SkyWard20"] creativity doesn't mean more or less complex.the_ChEeSe_mAn2

Except Dragon Age: Origins is Bioware's best-selling game to date...not Mass Effect 2.

worst forum ever, i guess most real pc gamers wouldnt be caught dead on here though.

worst forum ever, i guess most real pc gamers wouldnt be caught dead on here though.

TerrorRizzing

worst forum ever, i guess most real pc gamers wouldnt be caught dead on here though.

TerrorRizzing

[QUOTE="TerrorRizzing"]

worst forum ever, i guess most real pc gamers wouldnt be caught dead on here though.

the_ChEeSe_mAn2

any talk of "real" PC gamers is pointless before we have agreed upon a definite set of criterion for definition.

however, the pathetic state of consoleport PC gaming forum is quite evident.

as I observe, there are very few active posters (not lurkers) here game on PC exclusively (like me; my old PS2 was buried in dust years ago).

many posters would throw into any PC forum discussion anything console related at will. "I play F:NW on 360, the game is such and such..." "xxx console exclusive game is the best game this year..."

you actually have to put "PC" into thread title when you're discussing the best game in a PC gaming forum.

Mods lock hardware threads, making stickies off system requirement and popular PC exclusives discussions (SC2 being the most recent victim), yet they let console exclusive discussions run freely -- "will xxx console exclusive on PC?" "I wish xxx console exclusive on PC" "When will xxx console exclusive on PC?" "why not xxx console exclusive on PC?" and so on... there's actually moderator who constributed to such threads.

back to the topic, as of now, I see DA2 to become a mixture of console (J)RPG and ME2. console rpg: the FF art direction (pointed hair styIe, oversized big sowrd, designated NPC looks...), special attacks, no armor but runes (crystals) to upgrade/enhance NPC abilities. ME2 is the streamlined/simpilfied role-playing dialog system.

Bioware have Bioware loonies in their bag and so they wouldn't need to worry about those who would buy the game for PC over other platforms. what they're doing now is to extend their fanbase to JPRG crowd. DA2 may hit big or miss some we'll see.

[QUOTE="-wildflower-"]

Bioware really needs to just stop talking, really. Every bit of news they release about this game just makes it sound worse and worse. I know I'll be passing on this one at least until the ultimate-game-of-the-year-diamond edition hits the bargain bin for $9 or so. What a shame too. DA:O, while definitely not a great game, restored a little of the faith I had lost in Bioware.

Bioware is now EA's lapdog and a console developer pure and simple.

Gooeykat

Developers make mistakes; however, EA/BioWare is much better than Activision. BioWare and EA do support their games for a comfortable period of time...Activision just flat out abandons their games. Look at what they did with Prototype...16 months since release, and not a single patch has been engineered. Not to mention you hear absolutely nothing about the dev (Radical).

And 2K Games pulls this stunt..."Sure, we'll let you sell Borderlands." Then they cut the reseller off from all of the DLCs, forcing people to buy elsewhere.

Here is the latest gameplay footage from Igromir-mage:

http://n4g.com/news/641963/dragon-age-2-5-minutes-of-pure-gameplay-footage-emerged

So its hack and slash?

So its hack and slash?

KalDurenik

Yeah it dont look very nice now do it? And also is it just me or do the models look worse?

But hey! Everyone know mainstream = good ;) :P... right?

Here is the latest gameplay footage from Igromir-mage:

http://n4g.com/news/641963/dragon-age-2-5-minutes-of-pure-gameplay-footage-emerged

Dantus12

That's some great gameplay, and it's from the non-exagerrated part too. Honestly, I don't see much of a difference, from how DA2 plays versus Origins. It's just like what the devs said, combat is mostly the same. That is we still have the turn-based attacks, but there's no more shuffling towards the enemy.It's just the movement animations that have been amped up, be ithow quickly they charge into combat or even the weapon swing. Also with the isometric camera and the same PC GUI, we will be getting virtually the same experience of Origins along with a few new features like better graphics etc.

Since this thread is still going strong here's another interesting little tidbit I saw today on another website:

Would you say your main focus on Dragon Age II is to make it more appealing and intuitive for console gamers to play?
Close, but I'd take it a step further and say easier for everyone to play. Deep down, the changes are all about responsiveness. Knowing that your character will react quickly to the orders you give moves the game from one that feels like it's rolling dice and looking up results on tables to a game that feels like it's presenting responsive and fast-paced combat. That said we haven't lost our tactical depth. You're still able to coordinate a four-person party, learn new spells and abilities and so on.

Ooh, they're making it easier but it will still be tactical because you get to pick your spells.:roll:

We understand that Origins is actually BioWare's best selling game to date. Does it annoy you then that many still refer to it as a 'niche' game?
Not really, since I think that Origins was a bit niche in its overall presentation. You were hit pretty early on with a lot of statistics, and I think there were number of people who were a little turned off by that element of the game. Trying to figure out if you need a high dexterity or not is a little daunting when you've seen nothing of the game so far.We have done a lot of work to make the entry into DA II be smoother and friendlier. You can literally start fighting within 15 seconds of pressing the start button, and then the complexity slowly unfolds, easing you into the experience over the first bits of the game.

Stats and stuff are, like, totally confusing but never fear it'll still have complexity. /boggle

Here's the whole interview if anyone is still interested.

Since this thread is still going strong here's another interesting little tidbit I saw today on another website:

Would you say your main focus on Dragon Age II is to make it more appealing and intuitive for console gamers to play?
Close, but I'd take it a step further and say easier for everyone to play. Deep down, the changes are all about responsiveness. Knowing that your character will react quickly to the orders you give moves the game from one that feels like it's rolling dice and looking up results on tables to a game that feels like it's presenting responsive and fast-paced combat. That said we haven't lost our tactical depth. You're still able to coordinate a four-person party, learn new spells and abilities and so on.

Ooh, they're making it easier but it will still be tactical because you get to pick your spells.:roll:

We understand that Origins is actually BioWare's best selling game to date. Does it annoy you then that many still refer to it as a 'niche' game?
Not really, since I think that Origins was a bit niche in its overall presentation. You were hit pretty early on with a lot of statistics, and I think there were number of people who were a little turned off by that element of the game. Trying to figure out if you need a high dexterity or not is a little daunting when you've seen nothing of the game so far.We have done a lot of work to make the entry into DA II be smoother and friendlier. You can literally start fighting within 15 seconds of pressing the start button, and then the complexity slowly unfolds, easing you into the experience over the first bits of the game.

Stats and stuff are, like, totally confusing but never fear it'll still have complexity. /boggle

Here's the whole interview if anyone is still interested.-wildflower-

Priceless.These guys need some serious media coaching .Since Muzyka is Vice of EA they slowly go casual.And Laidlaw making sure that lots of people that liked their games are now nothing than annoyed.

Since this thread is still going strong here's another interesting little tidbit I saw today on another website:

Would you say your main focus on Dragon Age II is to make it more appealing and intuitive for console gamers to play?
Close, but I'd take it a step further and say easier for everyone to play. Deep down, the changes are all about responsiveness. Knowing that your character will react quickly to the orders you give moves the game from one that feels like it's rolling dice and looking up results on tables to a game that feels like it's presenting responsive and fast-paced combat. That said we haven't lost our tactical depth. You're still able to coordinate a four-person party, learn new spells and abilities and so on.

Ooh, they're making it easier but it will still be tactical because you get to pick your spells.:roll:

We understand that Origins is actually BioWare's best selling game to date. Does it annoy you then that many still refer to it as a 'niche' game?
Not really, since I think that Origins was a bit niche in its overall presentation. You were hit pretty early on with a lot of statistics, and I think there were number of people who were a little turned off by that element of the game. Trying to figure out if you need a high dexterity or not is a little daunting when you've seen nothing of the game so far.We have done a lot of work to make the entry into DA II be smoother and friendlier. You can literally start fighting within 15 seconds of pressing the start button, and then the complexity slowly unfolds, easing you into the experience over the first bits of the game.

Stats and stuff are, like, totally confusing but never fear it'll still have complexity. /boggle

Here's the whole interview if anyone is still interested.

-wildflower-

Fallout 3 is i think the best selling RPG this gen, and it's full with numbers, items, stats, customization ect...

Well it looks like they are still trying to sell it as a "old school" rpg but at the same with with "action" combat... Okey i have no idea what they are trying to do either. When i look at that video i dont think "holy crap that is so cool" i think:"Holy crap the little stratedgy the Dragon Age games had just flew out the window"...

[QUOTE="KalDurenik"]

So its hack and slash?

GeneralShowzer

I seriously have to ask you: if Dragon Age 2 will be a an average/bad hack & slash, then what was the Witcher, which you gave a 10?

Here is the latest gameplay footage from Igromir-mage:

http://n4g.com/news/641963/dragon-age-2-5-minutes-of-pure-gameplay-footage-emerged

Dantus12

[QUOTE="Dantus12"]

Here is the latest gameplay footage from Igromir-mage:

http://n4g.com/news/641963/dragon-age-2-5-minutes-of-pure-gameplay-footage-emerged

madrocketeer

So far the screens from the podcast are PC.So far:

Dialogue taking a serious hit example:

It`s up to you

Ill do it

Put Him out off his misery.

The voice tone icons that are meant to better explain the response,are somewhat strange in a RPG,like no one is able to listen to the responses,or read.

There are less spells,less talents,only upgrades for companion armor,way to acrobatic combat.Looks like the worlds will be far smaller.

Confirmed that the game will be:"Shorter than Origins,longer than Awakenings".

Having now serious doubts that anything can be done till release.Not holding my breath on a proper PC version to.

I don't think there are less number of spells at all. Take a look at Marion Hawke's Warrior Tree:

I don't think there are less number of spells at all. Take a look at Marion Hawke's Warrior Tree:

ralph2190

Russian translation means "Weapon in each hand"or Dual weild which he has selected. The rest are probably shield, spear, mace, ect...I'm sorry this does not look deep at all.

So far the screens from the podcast are PC.So far:

Dialogue taking a serious hit example:

It`s up to you

Ill do it

Put Him out off his misery.

The voice tone icons that are meant to better explain the response,are somewhat strange in a RPG,like no one is able to listen to the responses,or read.

There are less spells,less talents,only upgrades for companion armor,way to acrobatic combat.Looks like the worlds will be far smaller.

Confirmed that the game will be:"Shorter than Origins,longer than Awakenings".

Having now serious doubts that anything can be done till release.Not holding my breath on a proper PC version to.

Dantus12