DRM Hell: AC2 PC sales and Ubisoft PC support ** DRM Discussion Here **
This topic is locked from further discussion.
Having to be online for a single player game was going to happen sooner or later. The MMOs have much lower piracy rates (some have zero) so it was only a matter of time before a publisher tried requiring a constant connection.
I'm actually more shocked by the $60 price tag for the digital version. I can't believe how many pc gamers have accepted paying full price for a digital copy. At least with $60 console games you can later trade it in or sell it on ebay. They should have priced the digital version of AC2 around $40.
Finally if you don't like their terms then don't pirate the game. That just shows Ubisoft that their actions were justified. Either play something else or pick up the console version.
[QUOTE="LTZH"]This, and the fact that the game is selling for $60 makes me want to pirate it.Baranga
So europeans should pirate every Steam game, since they're painfully overpriced?:P At least AC2 is 50 euro, like the rest of them.
A lot of them already are.
Finally if you don't like their terms then don't pirate the game. That just shows Ubisoft that their actions were justified. Either play something else or pick up the console version.
dc337
Quit trolling the pc forums, and please stop supporting such asinine methods. The only way to stick it to ubisoft is to not buy the game. A lot of the people who will not support them in this endeavor, will go on to get the game for free, justifying it with ubisoft's ridiculous DRM.
Ubisoft used to be a great publisher and developer. They have lost their way.
Crossed AC2 off my list as soon as I saw the DRM and price increase. drop the price to 20-30 dollars and get rid of the DRM and we'll talk.
please stop supporting such asinine methods. The only way to stick it to ubisoft is to not buy the game. A lot of the people who will not support them in this endeavor, will go on to get the game for free, justifying it with ubisoft's ridiculous DRM.What exactly is asinine? Server side processing? Well it keeps pirates away from most MMOs. I never said I supported it, I just don't support lousy rationalizations for piracy. You can't get too upset with Ubisoft when single player pc games have piracy rates of around 90%. What do you expect them to do? Look the other way while the majority steals their product? People like you seem to forget that pirates are the real problem. PC piracy rates weren't always this high. The advent of torrents and high speed net connections has made pc piracy too easy. It used to be a lot more underground and now it is mainstream.Ubisoft used to be a great publisher and developer. They have lost their way.
shakmaster13
If Ubisoft is going to stay with this system, then my PC simply will not have any Ubisoft games on the hard drive.
I'm half and half on this DRM stuff...
On one hand you can't stop pirates in a more effective manner, on the other hand you're making it a huge hassle for the people who buy the game. I can see this DRM working if there was a online component and you had to log-on to play, but not so much this. The only way to stop all the whining is to make this kind of thing mandatory across the board for PC games, that way most will just give in and buy games for it anyway.
Either that or accept that people will pirate. Think of it this way, a lot of people pirate for the PC, but a lot of people also buy used games for consoles in which neither profit the publisher. So in essence you aren't losing out that much objectively from one compared to the other. If you can accept used game sales for consoles then you can accept PC piracy.
Plus you gotta give PC gamers more insentive to buy if you're gonna add DRM, it's a game of give and take. You can't take $10 extra profit and hand them poop on a stick.
Well, guess that does it for this game IMO.
Think of it this way, a lot of people pirate for the PC, but a lot of people also buy used games for consoles in which neither profit the publisher. So in essence you aren't losing out that much objectively from one compared to the other. If you can accept used game sales for consoles then you can accept PC piracy.No you can't compare used game sales to piracy. For one used game sales are legal but more importantly even a used sale or rental copy was once bought new. However a pirated copy can be distributed to a million people.Plus you gotta give PC gamers more insentive to buy if you're gonna add DRM, it's a game of give and take. You can't take $10 extra profit and hand them poop on a stick.
Mystic-G
There's huge discrepancy between torrent downloads and retail sales. You can't expect companies like Ubisoft to just look the other way. They're probably also concerned with pc piracy cutting in to console sales. There are people out there that will only buy the console version if they can't pirate the pc version.
I agree that the price is too high though. They are asking more from gamers so they should at least lower the price on the digital version. As I said before I think $40 would be a better price.
No you can't compare used game sales to piracy. For one used game sales are legal but more importantly even a used sale or rental copy was once bought new. However a pirated copy can be distributed to a million people.[QUOTE="Mystic-G"] Think of it this way, a lot of people pirate for the PC, but a lot of people also buy used games for consoles in which neither profit the publisher. So in essence you aren't losing out that much objectively from one compared to the other. If you can accept used game sales for consoles then you can accept PC piracy.
Plus you gotta give PC gamers more insentive to buy if you're gonna add DRM, it's a game of give and take. You can't take $10 extra profit and hand them poop on a stick.
dc337
There's huge discrepancy between torrent downloads and retail sales. You can't expect companies like Ubisoft to just look the other way. They're probably also concerned with pc piracy cutting in to console sales. There are people out there that will only buy the console version if they can't pirate the pc version.
I agree that the price is too high though. They are asking more from gamers so they should at least lower the price on the digital version. As I said before I think $40 would be a better price.
I never said they were the same ethically. I'm just saying they could be about the same at cost to the publisher give or take. They lose out on a ton of sales to used games regardless if it's legal and it's logical that one pirated copy doesn't equal one lost sale cause a lot of people who pirate wouldn't necessarily buy it if they couldn't pirate it.
Believe me, PC isn't cutting into console sales, most of the time PC gamers will buy for PC if they do buy.
I'm half and half on this DRM stuff...
On one hand you can't stop pirates in a more effective manner, on the other hand you're making it a huge hassle for the people who buy the game. I can see this DRM working if there was a online component and you had to log-on to play, but not so much this. The only way to stop all the whining is to make this kind of thing mandatory across the board for PC games, that way most will just give in and buy games for it anyway.
Either that or accept that people will pirate. Think of it this way, a lot of people pirate for the PC, but a lot of people also buy used games for consoles in which neither profit the publisher. So in essence you aren't losing out that much objectively from one compared to the other. If you can accept used game sales for consoles then you can accept PC piracy.
Plus you gotta give PC gamers more insentive to buy if you're gonna add DRM, it's a game of give and take. You can't take $10 extra profit and hand them poop on a stick.
Mystic-G
I instinctively disagree with the premise that anything will be effective at getting rid of piracy. The same for making this kind of thing mandatory. There is no way it would stop the whining it would only increase it. If that draconian a measure where taken there would be a game producer that would not incorporate it and they would make a killing. Now I could be wrong but I believe in markets and where there is a void there will be someone there to fill it.
I sadly accept that people will pirate and people will buy used games. I won't do either but you can't stop it without destroying the very thing you wish to save.
[QUOTE="Mystic-G"]
I'm half and half on this DRM stuff...
On one hand you can't stop pirates in a more effective manner, on the other hand you're making it a huge hassle for the people who buy the game. I can see this DRM working if there was a online component and you had to log-on to play, but not so much this. The only way to stop all the whining is to make this kind of thing mandatory across the board for PC games, that way most will just give in and buy games for it anyway.
Either that or accept that people will pirate. Think of it this way, a lot of people pirate for the PC, but a lot of people also buy used games for consoles in which neither profit the publisher. So in essence you aren't losing out that much objectively from one compared to the other. If you can accept used game sales for consoles then you can accept PC piracy.
Plus you gotta give PC gamers more insentive to buy if you're gonna add DRM, it's a game of give and take. You can't take $10 extra profit and hand them poop on a stick.
Rickylee
I instinctively disagree with the premise that anything will be effective at getting rid of piracy. The same for making this kind of thing mandatory. There is no way it would stop the whining it would only increase it. If that draconian a measure where taken there would be a game producer that would not incorporate it and they would make a killing. Now I could be wrong but I believe in markets and where there is a void there will be someone there to fill it.
I sadly accept that people will pirate and people will buy used games. I won't do either but you can't stop it without destroying the very thing you wish to save.
It wont erradicate piracy for sure, nothing can, nothing ever will (let us all remember that you can pirate console games as well, soon too for the PS3). BUT, it will reduce to the point its only a nuisance. Thats the goal. I mean, its ridiculous for a dev to sell only 100.000 copies of a game, and then realize that around a million people they didnt know about "own" it.So you're thinking of stealing something because you don't like its price and what it contains? On what planet is this morally right? I'm also very confused by some of the post in this thread...[QUOTE="LTZH"]This, and the fact that the game is selling for $60 makes me want to pirate it.dos4gw82
[QUOTE="dos4gw82"]So you're thinking of stealing something because you don't like its price and what it contains? On what planet is this morally right? I'm also very confused by some of the post in this thread... Confused? No. Saddened? Yes. Welcome to generation me.[QUOTE="LTZH"]This, and the fact that the game is selling for $60 makes me want to pirate it.alvaro_pg
You simply can't stop the piracy, but you can increase sales by doing a lot of small and important things.
The developers should discuss opinions and ideas with their public during the game development, creating some kind of relationship with their fans.They should care more about pleasing their loyal followers than the money they'll make. The original games should be as easy to install and play as the pirated versions. Also, the developers should create some interesting features that only people who bought the game will have access. Et cetera. There're a lot of solutions, but restrictive DRM isn't one of them.
The Ubisoft's DRM won't be a weapon to defeat piracy and it won't make more people buy their games.:?
[QUOTE="alvaro_pg"][QUOTE="dos4gw82"] So you're thinking of stealing something because you don't like its price and what it contains? On what planet is this morally right?I'm also very confused by some of the post in this thread... Confused? No. Saddened? Yes. Welcome to generation me.Renevent42
Damn you MTV!
Same old arguments. The solution is simple. Give me the right to return games I dont like. Problem solved and I wont be as nervious about throwing $50 down on a new game.
The old excuse that people could copy games and movies if they could return has been moot since the popularization of the internet, so they no longer have any reason to deny returns. The only reason it still happens is because game companies want to go back to forcing games and movies down our throats and to cut out all the small players (competition) because they would rather make sales through subvergence rather than by working hard and making good games. This is why they love consoles because they can make sales just by advertising even if their game stinks and people will be more likely to buy it on impulse. This is not true on the PC because of how easy it is to pirate a game. On the PC, you need to make a great game and you will succeed but game companies have long forgotten how to do that.
Every other type of game medium already comes with this type of consumer power except for video games. If I dont like a board game I can return it without a single problem. If I dont like a bike, back it goes. Heck, places like Costco make a living by earning peoples trust and in return people are willing to pay a premium through them because they offer fantactic customer service. I dont think they are going out of business any time soon from returns or theft.
The video game industry as a whole, rates lower than a used car salesmen on the trustometer because they can get away with anything and you cant do anything about it once you open a game. Until lawmaker level the playing grounds, we have no recourse against these scam artists.
I have an idea.
We should all buy the game legally but run it using cracks.
Ubisoft will see that the game has sold a lot of copies but there are only a few save games on their servers.They will get the message and remove the stupid drm.
I have an idea.
We should all buy the game legally but run it using cracks.
Ubisoft will see that the game has sold a lot of copies but there are only a few save games on their servers.They will get the message and remove the stupid drm.
That's my plan
I have an idea.
We should all buy the game legally but run it using cracks.
Ubisoft will see that the game has sold a lot of copies but there are only a few save games on their servers.They will get the message and remove the stupid drm.
That's my plan That's what everyone's going to do.
So you're thinking of stealing something because you don't like its price and what it contains? On what planet is this morally right?If he cannot afford the game then no one is being worse off if he pirates it. There's not much morally wrong with it on planet earth![QUOTE="LTZH"]This, and the fact that the game is selling for $60 makes me want to pirate it.dos4gw82
The developers should discuss opinions and ideas with their public during the game development, creating some kind of relationship with their fans.They should care more about pleasing their loyal followers than the money they'll make. The original games should be as easy to install and play as the pirated versions. Also, the developers should create some interesting features that only people who bought the game will have access. Et cetera. There're a lot of solutions, but restrictive DRM isn't one of them.
The Ubisoft's DRM won't be a weapon to defeat piracy and it won't make more people buy their games.:?
RyuRanVII
First off, if game companies cared more about pleasing loyal fans than they cared about making money, we'd have a lot of bankrupt companies. It's a business, not a charity. Sure, they are interested in pleasing followers. But not at the cost of their livelihoods.
Second, I don't think any company should have to reward people because they didn't steal their product. Adding special codes and the like to retail boxes has already been done. People just find such codes online.
And finally, I have no idea why everyone is assuming that Ubisoft actually thinks that this will completely solve their piracy problem. They know it won't, but they had to do something. The idea that reducing the DRM would deter piracy is just ridiculous; after years and years of a group of people stealing your product, would you be willing to trust that same group of people to do the right thing if you eased up on them?
So you're thinking of stealing something because you don't like its price and what it contains? On what planet is this morally right?If he cannot afford the game then no one is being worse off if he pirates it. There's not much morally wrong with it on planet earth![QUOTE="dos4gw82"]
[QUOTE="LTZH"]This, and the fact that the game is selling for $60 makes me want to pirate it.Gambler_3
If he can't afford it then he should ethically do what is right and save up for the game and buy it later or wait for the price of it to drop just like ANY other thing you can buy. Yes the DRM is bad and the game is overpriced but that is still NEVER a excuse to pirate the game. If anything you would not want to play the game at all. Once I saw the drm measure and heard it was suppose to be 59.99 (49.99 is normal Pc price) that stopped everything for me.
I have heard for a long time people state, "DRM, price of game, unethical blah blah, is the reason I pirated something." What it boils down to is, piracy equals a free game. People pirate because it saves them money. Pirates look for a way out, they make excuses but its just nature to take the path of less resistance. You can't spin the fact that you did not buy a certain game thus you stole it. For the most, people know what is right and what is wrong. We try to justify the wrong as a right but its still wrong. No matter how many times you spin the fact that "you pirated a game" in the end you saved 50 dollars. Then offcourse people make a arguement that "I wouldn't have even played the game if I didn't pirate it". I have heard this from 60 guys in my old dormitory. Looking at that statement. Does it not sound like a bad play on words? You pirated the game because you didn't want it? If you don't want something you won't get it. Example. You don't want a whopper from burger king thus you won't buy it. Now if someone had 6 whoppers in a bag and you knew he robbed the store to gettem would you takem? Honestly I know people will because they know they aren't the individual who actually stole from the store but each savory bite of that juicy whopper is making you a accomplice." (Yap i'm hungry)
Now let me seperate a person who downloaded games with those who just want a challenge of cracking the drm. Those are 2 different people. I am referring to those who wish to torrent etc a game they don't have.
If he cannot afford the game then no one is being worse off if he pirates it. There's not much morally wrong with it on planet earth![QUOTE="Gambler_3"]
[QUOTE="dos4gw82"] So you're thinking of stealing something because you don't like its price and what it contains? On what planet is this morally right?
jedikevin2
If he can't afford it then he should ethically do what is right and save up for the game and buy it later or wait for the price of it to drop just like ANY other thing you can buy. Yes the DRM is bad and the game is overpriced but that is still NEVER a excuse to pirate the game. If anything you would not want to play the game at all. Once I saw the drm measure and heard it was suppose to be 59.99 (49.99 is normal Pc price) that stopped everything for me.
I have heard for a long time people state, "DRM, price of game, unethical blah blah, is the reason I pirated something." What it boils down to is, piracy equals a free game. People pirate because it saves them money. Pirates look for a way out, they make excuses but its just nature to take the path of less resistance. You can't spin the fact that you did not buy a certain game thus you stole it. For the most, people know what is right and what is wrong. We try to justify the wrong as a right but its still wrong. No matter how many times you spin the fact that "you pirated a game" in the end you saved 50 dollars. Then offcourse people make a arguement that "I wouldn't have even played the game if I didn't pirate it". I have heard this from 60 guys in my old dormitory. Looking at that statement. Does it not sound like a bad play on words? You pirated the game because you didn't want it? If you don't want something you won't get it. Example. You don't want a whopper from burger king thus you won't buy it. Now if someone had 6 whoppers in a bag and you knew he robbed the store to gettem would you takem? Honestly I know people will because they know they aren't the individual who actually stole from the store but each savory bite of that juicy whopper is making you a accomplice." (Yap i'm hungry)
Now let me seperate a person who downloaded games with those who just want a challenge of cracking the drm. Those are 2 different people. I am referring to those who wish to torrent etc a game they don't have.
Piracy \\=\\ stealing. If I stole a burger from burger king then they would bear the loss of the materials used in the burger, pirating a game doesnt create a loss.If a law gets passed that you cant stare at a well dressed woman in public without paying for the copyrights of it. would that make it unethical? lol.
[QUOTE="jedikevin2"]
[QUOTE="Gambler_3"]If he cannot afford the game then no one is being worse off if he pirates it. There's not much morally wrong with it on planet earth!
Gambler_3
If he can't afford it then he should ethically do what is right and save up for the game and buy it later or wait for the price of it to drop just like ANY other thing you can buy. Yes the DRM is bad and the game is overpriced but that is still NEVER a excuse to pirate the game. If anything you would not want to play the game at all. Once I saw the drm measure and heard it was suppose to be 59.99 (49.99 is normal Pc price) that stopped everything for me.
I have heard for a long time people state, "DRM, price of game, unethical blah blah, is the reason I pirated something." What it boils down to is, piracy equals a free game. People pirate because it saves them money. Pirates look for a way out, they make excuses but its just nature to take the path of less resistance. You can't spin the fact that you did not buy a certain game thus you stole it. For the most, people know what is right and what is wrong. We try to justify the wrong as a right but its still wrong. No matter how many times you spin the fact that "you pirated a game" in the end you saved 50 dollars. Then offcourse people make a arguement that "I wouldn't have even played the game if I didn't pirate it". I have heard this from 60 guys in my old dormitory. Looking at that statement. Does it not sound like a bad play on words? You pirated the game because you didn't want it? If you don't want something you won't get it. Example. You don't want a whopper from burger king thus you won't buy it. Now if someone had 6 whoppers in a bag and you knew he robbed the store to gettem would you takem? Honestly I know people will because they know they aren't the individual who actually stole from the store but each savory bite of that juicy whopper is making you a accomplice." (Yap i'm hungry)
Now let me seperate a person who downloaded games with those who just want a challenge of cracking the drm. Those are 2 different people. I am referring to those who wish to torrent etc a game they don't have.
Piracy \\=\\ stealing. If I stole a burger from burger king then they would bear the loss of the materials used in the burger, pirating a game doesnt create a loss.If a law gets passed that you cant stare at a well dressed woman in public without paying for the copyrights of it. would that make it unethical? lol.
Is it morally acceptable to sneak into a movie? What about taking an architects digital drawings and using them without his permission? If I hacked into your computer and copied all of your files is that ok with you? There are a million examples of things you could do that not only wouldn't deprive any person of any physical property, yet are all morally unethical. Pirating a game and not compensating a game developer is one of them. Just because no property was lost, doesn't mean it's not wrong. I don't care that people pirate...but at least be a man and stop pretending what you are doing isn't morally objectionable. It is, any way you slice it.If a law gets passed that you cant stare at a well dressed woman in public without paying for the copyrights of it. would that make it unethical? lol.Gambler_3K, explain cable theft. Still treated as both theft and a crime. You are talking about the law here! Also with games, the loss comes in creating the software itself. After that, copying it is pretty much trivial. Talking about food like you do, the loss only comes when you create the individual food.
[QUOTE="Gambler_3"]If a law gets passed that you cant stare at a well dressed woman in public without paying for the copyrights of it. would that make it unethical? lol.MakariK, explain cable theft. Still treated as both theft and a crime. You are talking about the law here! Also with games, the loss comes in creating the software itself. After that, copying it is pretty much trivial. Talking about food like you do, the loss only comes when you create the individual food.Law does not determine what is morally acceptable in one's book.:|
And I dont know about cable but piracy is NOT treated as theft in law albeit still a crime.
We have to wait till console piracy becomes a more known thing. Spread the word
Thankfully, this is only Ubisoft. It's not like the PC world would be worse without Ubisoft games.
As much as I might feel for the individual developers of the games, I will feel nothing but amusment if I hear these games are pirated excessively, hopefully before launch just like Spore was. Two wrongs don't make a right, and never was this more true than with this DRM garbage. It's an insult to any legitimate customer that this kind of garbage even crossed some greedy publisher's mind.
First off, if game companies cared more about pleasing loyal fans than they cared about making money, we'd have a lot of bankrupt companies. It's a business, not a charity. Sure, they are interested in pleasing followers. But not at the cost of their livelihoods.dos4gw82
Yes, that's how Ubisoft looks at it. Though, thing is, those "loyal fans" are really "loyal customers" and what you call a "Charity" the rest of us call a "good company".
I have a better idea. Don't buy the game at all. Ubisoft will see their profits going down the toilet and get the message. Then, they will either remove the DRM, or stop making PC games. Either works for me, as putting this type of DRM on their games is worse than abandoning the platform altogether, in my book. Whichever they decide, I won't be getting any of their games in the future.I have an idea.
We should all buy the game legally but run it using cracks.
Ubisoft will see that the game has sold a lot of copies but there are only a few save games on their servers.They will get the message and remove the stupid drm.
call_of_duty_10
What exactly is asinine? Server side processing? Well it keeps pirates away from most MMOs. I never said I supported it, I just don't support lousy rationalizations for piracy. You can't get too upset with Ubisoft when single player pc games have piracy rates of around 90%. What do you expect them to do? Look the other way while the majority steals their product? People like you seem to forget that pirates are the real problem. PC piracy rates weren't always this high. The advent of torrents and high speed net connections has made pc piracy too easy. It used to be a lot more underground and now it is mainstream.[QUOTE="shakmaster13"]please stop supporting such asinine methods. The only way to stick it to ubisoft is to not buy the game. A lot of the people who will not support them in this endeavor, will go on to get the game for free, justifying it with ubisoft's ridiculous DRM.
Ubisoft used to be a great publisher and developer. They have lost their way.
dc337
The only reason MMO's take so long to "pirate" is because they require massive server-side emulation and at first quests and such are always very buggy. Do you even know what you are talking about? The scale of server-side processing is nowhere near that of an MMO here. Also, only a few MMO's even have private servers.
I agree that piracy is a big problem, but although piracy rates are a lot higher than they used to be, so are game sales. Also I think you are underestimating the fact that most piracy occurs in regions where games are unavailable in the first place. It only makes sense that as those regions get broadband, more and more people there can download software through torrents.
K, explain cable theft. Still treated as both theft and a crime. You are talking about the law here! Also with games, the loss comes in creating the software itself. After that, copying it is pretty much trivial. Talking about food like you do, the loss only comes when you create the individual food.Law does not determine what is morally acceptable in one's book.:|[QUOTE="Makari"][QUOTE="Gambler_3"]If a law gets passed that you cant stare at a well dressed woman in public without paying for the copyrights of it. would that make it unethical? lol.Gambler_3
And I dont know about cable but piracy is NOT treated as theft in law albeit still a crime.
This thread was largely talking about the law. The law states it's theft. Much like 'stealing' wifi, even when it IS morally acceptable or not even done on purpose - it can land you in trouble with the law. If you're talking about morally acceptable, you're going to have to try to argue that it's morally acceptable to actively avoid paying somebody via their sole method of income while still enjoying their work anyway. If you're attempting to boil it down to a specific aspect of the 'morality' instead... by the same token, it would then be okay to hire a contractor to do something and then not pay him/her - hey, it's not like they lost anything concrete of theirs besides some time![QUOTE="RyuRanVII"]
The developers should discuss opinions and ideas with their public during the game development, creating some kind of relationship with their fans.They should care more about pleasing their loyal followers than the money they'll make. The original games should be as easy to install and play as the pirated versions. Also, the developers should create some interesting features that only people who bought the game will have access. Et cetera. There're a lot of solutions, but restrictive DRM isn't one of them.
The Ubisoft's DRM won't be a weapon to defeat piracy and it won't make more people buy their games.:?
dos4gw82
First off, if game companies cared more about pleasing loyal fans than they cared about making money, we'd have a lot of bankrupt companies. It's a business, not a charity. Sure, they are interested in pleasing followers. But not at the cost of their livelihoods.
Second, I don't think any company should have to reward people because they didn't steal their product. Adding special codes and the like to retail boxes has already been done. People just find such codes online.
And finally, I have no idea why everyone is assuming that Ubisoft actually thinks that this will completely solve their piracy problem. They know it won't, but they had to do something. The idea that reducing the DRM would deter piracy is just ridiculous; after years and years of a group of people stealing your product, would you be willing to trust that same group of people to do the right thing if you eased up on them?
There is a lot of evidence to disprove your 1st paragraph. If you want to talk philosophically then I can argue that a company that does not care for its customers more than its profit will eventually fail. Take every video game company in the 80's minus Nintendo as an example of companies that pumped out garbage and expected everyone to buy despite the fact. Today, companies like EA and Activision are struggling financially because people are no longer buying all their games for the same reason. Conversly, companies like Stardock purposely dont use DRM because it hurts their customers yet they are doing great, and companies like Blizzard spend oogles of money testing their games even though they could release them now and make tons of money broken or not. Blizzard and Stardock know that there is nothing more important than customer sentiment. Other business models follow that same idea including most restaurants, and even huge retailers like Costco who make a living by treating their customers like royalty.
You have a very bad view of humanity. Not all of us behave like low life animals. We wouldnt have people volunteering their time and philanthropists donating money if we were all so bad. That said, this has nothing to do with piracy. There is a time when piracy is a good thing but that does not mean all pirates are shining examples of humanity. The same can be said of the corporations. Its all a wash to me but companies have a lot more power so they should be held to a much higher standard.
Again I state that to solve the piracy problem, allow me a one week time frame to return games I do not like and I will be much more likely to shell out money on new games. As it is now, consumers have zero power because once we unwrap a game we are stuck with it good or not.
I'm still wondering why people are actually defending piracy here.
We've got DRM because of it, not the other way around. Dev's have to do something to stop millions of people having access to their work for free, piracy rates on some games are downright sickening. (Demi-god anyone? released with NO DRM btw, so claiming ppl pirate because of DRM it is total nonsense spun to help pirates sleep at night.)
Used console game sales several months after release are in no way comparable to ludicrously high piracy rate on PC on release day (sometimes BEFORE release day)
There are times when piracy is a good thing? only thing even vaguely falling into this category is when a game has no demo.
Console piracy isn't as bad because every tom dick and harry, even people with very little tech skills, cannot pirate it or get it working so easily. It usually requires "chipping" of your console, which makes these pirated versions unaccesible to a larger pop.
If they let people return games after 10 days or so, what the hell is there to stop people from buying a game, finishing it, then just returning it anyway, you may as well pirate it. Most single player games can easily be finished in 10 days, some can be finished in an immensely shorter time span.
If they ever managed to make largely uncrackable DRM, pirates would probably launch a public hate campaign against it. They have in the past with starforce, and many of the ignorant still believe the crap spread about it.
And those who say dev's blame bad sales on piracy for bad games... how the hell would they know if the game was generally unliked if most of the copies played were pirated versions? especially when the piracy rates are still so goddamn high on these "bad" games. And especially when the same game on a console sells very well.
All this DRM is doing is making the game unaccesible to a portion of the PC gaming crowd (a fairly small portion I might add, how many PC gamers wouldn't have a permanent net connection.. seriously)
Stop defending piracy people, its responsible for everything you all hate about PC gaming.
If they ever managed to make largely uncrackable DRM, pirates would probably launch a public hate campaign against it. They have in the past with starforce, and many of the ignorant still believe the crap spread about it.
GideonDrexlar
Well, Starforce deleted the contents of my User folder - everything from documents to game saves. And it came with a demo.
Securom decided Nero and Daemon Tools, which I use a lot for making and working with DVDs, are evil and refused to start Spore for a while.
Intrusive DRM is a worse crime than piracy.
What's interesting is how well console games sell when they've got a legal form of piracy - renting.
You never know with pirates nowadays. Hell , they may even go so far as to make a server that can act exactly like a ubisoft server , give a crack that edits the game to connect to the pirate's server and then make an account and play the game illegaly. But then , you'd still have the prob that if you're internet connection gets disabled or something , then your progress will be lost :D ( I'm not a pirate , I'm just expressing my opinion )
[QUOTE="GideonDrexlar"]
If they ever managed to make largely uncrackable DRM, pirates would probably launch a public hate campaign against it. They have in the past with starforce, and many of the ignorant still believe the crap spread about it.
Baranga
Well, Starforce deleted the contents of my User folder - everything from documents to game saves. And it came with a demo.
Securom decided Nero and Daemon Tools, which I use a lot for making and working with DVDs, are evil and refused to start Spore for a while.
Intrusive DRM is a worse crime than piracy.
What's interesting is how well console games sell when they've got a legal form of piracy - renting.
Never said starforce had no problems, I was referring to it "destroying optical drives" which was what the law suit was over.
Daemon tools software tricks your operating system, and uses ring 0. Which is generally where hackers work to crack into a game, so thats not really surprising, it would be difficult to differentiate a program that acts like a hacking tool when its being used for legit purposes. Assuming of course you are with "making DVD's" Never used Nero but Its function to burn DVDs is probably in the same boat. You also said, "for a while" so I assume Securom have addressed this.
I hope its just your annoyance about Intrusive DRM being a worse crime than piracy. Intrusive DRM is certainly annoying, but its no crime. Its also still evolving and pretty much necessary for an offline game. Credit Card checks are annoying and intrusive too, but the hassle is certainly not more of a crime than someone stealing my card number and using it.
We had a video store that used to rent PC games years ago, before there was any form of DRM. After a couple of months noone was renting them anymore since (you guessed it) the ones rented were copied. Its not comparable to console games, nor is it even related to piracy since the video store purchased their copy, its more akin to a pre-owned sale.
Seriously, if the piracy doesn't curb itself, the DRM will just get worse, PC games more and more will become online only, and more and more dev's will move away from the platform altogether. Thats the real crime here.
Now I've argued in favor of DRM to delay the hackers from cracking a game long enough for the devs and publisher to get the sales they deserve for their work, at least in the first month of release when most of the lifetime sales generally happen.
But this move by Ubisoft is the just a bad business decision. Its laid out in this article.
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2010/02/17/you-maniacs/#more-25624
This might stave off cracks for AC2 indefinitely but at what price. If this is implemented in all Ubisoft games on PC from here on out as they themselves have indicated, then they're sales on PC will plummet as word gets out on the DRM's draconian copyright protection measures and they might absolve to go console only...
Rawtheory333
People need to stop saying "deserve" and what not.. Its about profit and cost.. That being said DRM has not stopped games from being pirated.. And B)they have to prove that piracy actually is teh main factor for hurt sales on the games.. Because devs seem to be all too quick to jumping on the bandwagon for this.. But don't do the same for used games and rental industry on the console.. Something that can be legitimately measured.
There is a lot of evidence to disprove your 1st paragraph. If you want to talk philosophically then I can argue that a company that does not care for its customers more than its profit will eventually fail. Take every video game company in the 80's minus Nintendo as an example of companies that pumped out garbage and expected everyone to buy despite the fact. Today, companies like EA and Activision are struggling financially because people are no longer buying all their games for the same reason. Conversly, companies like Stardock purposely dont use DRM because it hurts their customers yet they are doing great, and companies like Blizzard spend oogles of money testing their games even though they could release them now and make tons of money broken or not. Blizzard and Stardock know that there is nothing more important than customer sentiment. Other business models follow that same idea including most restaurants, and even huge retailers like Costco who make a living by treating their customers like royalty.
You're right; looking back, I guess I didn't think that one through.
You have a very bad view of humanity.
I do not, and there was no need to make this personal.
Not all of us behave like low life animals. We wouldnt have people volunteering their time and philanthropists donating money if we were all so bad. That said, this has nothing to do with piracy. There is a time when piracy is a good thing but that does not mean all pirates are shining examples of humanity. The same can be said of the corporations. Its all a wash to me but companies have a lot more power so they should be held to a much higher standard.
I'm not sure exactly what you mean here, and I was talking about piracy, so I'm not sure why piracy has nothing to do with "this." I can say, however, that piracy is never a good thing. It's theft. I know that laws aren't always right, and that there are differences between cultures and creeds, but I'm pretty sure that the majority believe that theft is not morally sound. Stealing stirs up animosity. Is anyone surprised that Ubisoft responded to theft with such a brutal measure, having had things stolen from them on such a large scale?
Keep in mind, DRM is a response to pirates, not to consumers. Here's a somewhat grim analogy: DRM is chemotherapy, piracy is cancer, and consumers are healthy cells. Healthy cells are damaged as well as the cancer during chemotherapy. It's a brutal process, one that doesn't always work well or doesn't at all, but there really is no better method at the moment. Ignoring the problem or easing off does not make it go away.
The thing is, the only two groups getting increasingly frustrated and unhappy are consumers and companies. Pirates are as happy as ever. That's why I am through griping about DRM and reserving all my displeasure for Pirates. DRM is going to happen, and in my view there is no other answer to the problem at the moment, including the one you provided in your post.
And really, DRM is a mild inconvenience that I feel is blown way out of proportion. Looking back, I can't think of a single game that I regretted purchasing because of its anti-piracy measures. I imagine that I'll feel the same way about Ubisoft's new DRM, and the one after that.
[QUOTE="dc337"]
Finally if you don't like their terms then don't pirate the game. That just shows Ubisoft that their actions were justified. Either play something else or pick up the console version.
shakmaster13
Quit trolling the pc forums, and please stop supporting such asinine methods. The only way to stick it to ubisoft is to not buy the game. A lot of the people who will not support them in this endeavor, will go on to get the game for free, justifying it with ubisoft's ridiculous DRM.
Ubisoft used to be a great publisher and developer. They have lost their way.
What he said is absolutely right. If you don't like their terms, don't play but don't pirate it either. Not sure why he is a troll. This is a free country. The developers can put whatever DRM they want. You don't have to buy it.If you buy this game then this is the future of the PC :-
http://playstationlifestyle.net/2010/02/28/playstation-network-goes-down-ps3-titles-not-working/
The playstation network is currently down (undetermined if this is maintenance or malfunction) leaving millions without the ability to play their games. Now I know what you are going to say, you are going to say "well play an SP game till the network is back" ........... just one problem it is affecting single player games too. Any game that uses trophies (even SP) cannot be played, so right now millions of PS3 gamers cannot play ANY games because the servers aren't working.
Now right at this moment it is only Ubisoft doing this protection, but if this protection is a success then you can bet other developers will leap on board. Then a few years from now you will find pretty much all your single player games are dependant on having internet access. So if things go awry with your net or the servers you will be left completely gameless.
just another move to a "more secure" world.
sure this will stop some pirateers or whatever they like to call themselves. but mostly i see this hurting the "honest" consumer.
sure dont buy the game, well alot of people are still blissfully ignorant on the whole drm and securom crap. (which leads to high sales of the games still, which means they will be trying this crap on even more games, and going even further with this security) so that message is all well and good, but not everyone even remotely knows of this crap, they see OH videogame or assassins creed 2 let me get it.
it's local PS3-side protection from what i can tell, and is being thrown off from some kind of clock malfunction on the PS3's end. they can't even speak to PSN, so to speak.If you buy this game then this is the future of the PC :-
http://playstationlifestyle.net/2010/02/28/playstation-network-goes-down-ps3-titles-not-working/
The playstation network is currently down (undetermined if this is maintenance or malfunction) leaving millions without the ability to play their games. Now I know what you are going to say, you are going to say "well play an SP game till the network is back" ........... just one problem it is affecting single player games too. Any game that uses trophies (even SP) cannot be played, so right now millions of PS3 gamers cannot play ANY games because the servers aren't working.
Now right at this moment it is only Ubisoft doing this protection, but if this protection is a success then you can bet other developers will leap on board. Then a few years from now you will find pretty much all your single player games are dependant on having internet access. So if things go awry with your net or the servers you will be left completely gameless.
charmingcharlie
Please Log In to post.
Log in to comment