Fallout butchering am confirmed, new interview on 1up

http://www.1up.com/do/previewPage?cId=3162282

"We went back and forth with the impact of dialogue on the character, and ultimately decided we didn't want to penalize or reward the player for carrying on a conversation. What you say and how you say it will certainly affect how NPCs react to you, and whether or not they'll give you quests, but not the ending of the game. That really depends on some of the big decisions you make during the course of the game, as well as your karma. And your karma changes based on your actions. So if you destroy Megaton a city built around a supposedly inert atomic bomb, your karma plummets, so that will certainly affect the ending. But there are other moments too, key moments during the game, that greatly determine which ending you get."

The fact that conversations actually mattered was one of the defining features of Fallout. I'm okay with changing the POV, even the combat system, that's totally understandable considering the age of the original fallouts, but this is just a clear step backwards in every way possible. This probably confirms it isn't possible to play the game as a strictly diplomatic character either. And what do we get in return?

"In Fallout 3, the player will come across schematics for different custom-made weapons. These might be found in different places in the world, or obtained as quest rewards. Each set of schematics lets you build a certain, pre-determined weapon, as long as you've got all the components, and most of the components are junk objects you'll find in the world."

Sounds familiar? That's probably because MMORPG's have done this since the dawn of... MMORPG's? Is bethesda feature by feature trying to turn this game into a single player MMO? Seriously, he goes on saying how you build guns out of bicycle parts and surgical tubes. WTF? I mean, fallout always had its wierd moments of absurd humour but this isn't a joke. You could as well name the game "MacGyver and the angry supermutants" and no one would notice the differance.

Yep, I've now officially joined the Bethesda haters. Fallout is as dead as it was before the announcement of "fallout" 3.

Great, it's like Oblivion where I can say whatever the hell I want to anyone as long as they aren't important to the main quest.

I probably won't even have a chance to be an ass to important characters.

Does this really surprise anyone? This game is going to be utter garbage but will still, no doubt, get all those glowing-PR-inspired reviews and RPG Game of the Year, ala Oblivion (Dynamic NPC's? Yeah, right).

My question is: Why did Bethesda buy the Fallout IP if they're not going to make a Fallout game? They claim to be "Fallout Fans" but it would appear that they haven't the slightest clue about what made Fallout 1 & 2 great.

This really doesn't sound like that big a change. I can't remember a point in Fallout where being an ass to people affected the game other than making that person like me less.

I don't knowhow you'd take this to mean that you wouldn't be able to be a completely diplomatic character either. That option will most certainly be available. If you can still affect the disposition of the people you interact with, you can persuade them not to fight you.

This really doesn't sound like that big a change. I can't remember a point in Fallout where being an ass to people affected the game other than making that person like me less.

I don't knowhow you'd take this to mean that you wouldn't be able to be a completely diplomatic character either. That option will most certainly be available. If you can still affect the disposition of the people you interact with, you can persuade them not to fight you.

Mediocre_man90

Well, you must never have been an ass to anyone if you don't know how it could affect the game. Try being an ass to Lynette (the leader of vault city) for example, and you'll find yourself in deep sh*t. You can agitate pretty much anyone into combat simply by talking to them.

And how are you supposed to be able to be a diplomatic character if you can't solve problems by talking? Read the quote again, it quite blatantly states "and ultimately decided we didn't want to penalize or reward the player for carrying on a conversation".

Does this really surprise anyone? This game is going to be utter garbage but will still, no doubt, get all those glowing-PR-inspired reviews and RPG Game of the Year, ala Oblivion (Dynamic NPC's? Yeah, right).-wildflower-

I actually agree....this thing will be "Fallout" only in name, yet with all the hyped reviews you'll have some places declaring it RPG GOTY.

Well, at least it isn't directly connected to the original Fallout and Fallout 2.....given this is taking place in a new setting with a whole new vault and set of characters, I'm treating it as a another spinoff rather then sequel.

If anything I view Bethesda's game as an improvement to the poor spinoffs like Tactics and BoS....rather than a disappointing sequel to the original games.

My question is: Why did Bethesda buy the Fallout IP if they're not going to make a Fallout game? They claim to be "Fallout Fans" but it would appear that they haven't the slightest clue about what made Fallout 1 & 2 great.

-wildflower-

That's actually a very good question......my assumption would be for the same reason that MS bought out the Shadowrun IP just to butcher it.

"Fallout" is a classic franchise name, and even though most mainstream gamers didn't play it, there is a legacy that is attached to the name that can be used to promote the product....one that Bethesda can play on to further sell their game.

Considering it's Bethesda, I was already expecting it to be just like Oblivion, only set in a post-apocalyptic world. So this really comes as no surprise. None of the choices you made in Oblivion really had much impact on the gameworld or the outcome of the game, and the NPCs were just lifeless, generic robots. And just like Oblivion, it will probably suck but still get massively inflated reviews.

Personally I just think its too bad bethesda has attached the fallout name to this game. I personally enjoyed oblivion (though I do think it was a step down from Morrowwind) and I do think I will enjoy this game very much. The game just isnt fallout though. Real time combat? Not fallout. Dialog unimportant? Not fallout. The list goes on and on.

There would still be plenty of naysayers but I think they would have far fewer if they just changed the name of the game.

It really is sad that we will never get a true sequal.

EDIT: I just read the whole interview. Should have done that before I commented. Sounds the guy they are interviewing (the lead designer) fully admits they are making their own game and not Fallout 3. That really irks me. Like I said, it sounds like they are making a pretty good game but why are you tormenting the die hard fans by calling it fallout. Its the same game without the name and I have a feeling that nobody who will be drawn to the game by the name is going to be happy with it. Instead of just enjoying the game I'm just going to be pining for a true Fallout 3. As an earlier poster said, this is really just a spinoff.

Does this really surprise anyone? This game is going to be utter garbage but will still, no doubt, get all those glowing-PR-inspired reviews and RPG Game of the Year, ala Oblivion (Dynamic NPC's? Yeah, right).

My question is: Why did Bethesda buy the Fallout IP if they're not going to make a Fallout game? They claim to be "Fallout Fans" but it would appear that they haven't the slightest clue about what made Fallout 1 & 2 great.

-wildflower-

They are "Fallout Fans" however they have their own ideas about making games.

They are "Fallout Fans" however they have their own ideas about making games.Locke562

No, they say that just to get PR points. They're all about business.

I wonder if you'll be able to to be a pornstar and be a slave trader in this one, or get addicted to drugs and do some of the other haness things that I won't mention for fear of filtering that you could do in the other games. I'm being sarcastic.

I have played, "utter garbage", and Oblivion is not it. It may be far from perfect but please go play some more games before you throw meaningless insults towards great games. Go play Loki, Dungeon Lords, or Rage of Mages too see what real, "utter garbage", is.VooDooPC

I stand by my claim its a dumbed down piece of garbage unmodded.. The sole fact everything is leveled and character devolpment means absolutly nothing turns it into a second rate piece of crap action game... There is only one line of quests with interesting alternatives.. Other that the dark brotherhood.. They are all generic crap with no real consquences nor challenge.. Thats of course if you have the misfortune of pickinga gimped skil that levels up too fast..

The sole fact that you have access to every skilla nd you can be a master to all of them gives you no replayability what so ever.. AND the mere fact that the story is generic garbage doesn't help it much either.. With such a huge landscape you would think exploring would be fun.. BUT IT IS NOT.. 99% of all the udngeons are generic garbage.. I might as well do the same dungeon over and over agian the first I come across because they will have the same dififculty as well as drops..

Tell me if I'm wrong here, but I do beleive I read somewhere that Fergus Urquart (and whichever company he currently works in) bought the licence for Wasteland. I remember reading it but can't remember where.koza_76

I believe you're thinking of Brian Fargo and his company inXile. A remake (or sequel) to Wasteland would be wonderful but remember this is the same company that updated a Bard's Tale with less than stellar results. Hopefully they can atone for that mess of a game with a new and incredible Wasteland. I guess we will have to wait and see.

But-But-But.... The dialogue is what made Fallout so great! What's the point of buying a renown license if you're not even going to bother to use it properly, what's the point?

I'm going to be blunt here. I always thought the combat in Fallout was crap. Yeah, you heard me right, crap. Never liked it, nope. Don't see why so many do! So when they announced the different combat system I figure "Hey, whatever. Could be an improvement!" Same with the perspective. 3rd person overhead is great and all, but for a game like Fallout I wouldn't consider it completely mandatory. After all, it's mostly you controlling only your main character, not a game like Baldur's Gate where the overhead perspective is put to good use with group controls and tactics. So the entire first person thing, again "Hey, maybe it'll be for the better. Graphics are sure a hella lot better now than they were then!"...

But this. Seriously, saying the dialogue and how you use it is inconsequential to the gameplay. That IS an essential part of what made Fallout great (atleast for me). Hell, in Fallout 1&2 you could talk yer way out of just about any situation, it's great. Plus some of the dialogue throughout the games was both extremely clever and often funny. EXAMPLE from when I was replaying Fallout 2 not so long ago.

I'm by no means a Fallout fanboy, I love the games and all but if they're going to make another they're going to have to improve the gameplay some to bring it up to date. But on that same note, there are some things that just make Fallout what it is, and dialogue and how you used it was key to the franchise. Without, well, it just ain't Fallout, it's some other post-apocalyptic game.

Fallout 3 might be decent, but I doubt it'll be anything like the games I remember nor as good or original.

[QUOTE="VooDooPC"]I have played, "utter garbage", and Oblivion is not it. It may be far from perfect but please go play some more games before you throw meaningless insults towards great games. Go play Loki, Dungeon Lords, or Rage of Mages too see what real, "utter garbage", is.sSubZerOo

I stand by my claim its a dumbed down piece of garbage unmodded.. The sole fact everything is leveled and character devolpment means absolutly nothing turns it into a second rate piece of crap action game... There is only one line of quests with interesting alternatives.. Other that the dark brotherhood.. They are all generic crap with no real consquences nor challenge.. Thats of course if you have the misfortune of pickinga gimped skil that levels up too fast..

The sole fact that you have access to every skilla nd you can be a master to all of them gives you no replayability what so ever.. AND the mere fact that the story is generic garbage doesn't help it much either.. With such a huge landscape you would think exploring would be fun.. BUT IT IS NOT.. 99% of all the udngeons are generic garbage.. I might as well do the same dungeon over and over agian the first I come across because they will have the same dififculty as well as drops..

To bring at least a little light to this, you obviously didnt read the actual interview. The lead designer on Fallout is the person responsible for the dark brotherhood quest line in Oblivion

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="VooDooPC"]I have played, "utter garbage", and Oblivion is not it. It may be far from perfect but please go play some more games before you throw meaningless insults towards great games. Go play Loki, Dungeon Lords, or Rage of Mages too see what real, "utter garbage", is.Mossad

I stand by my claim its a dumbed down piece of garbage unmodded.. The sole fact everything is leveled and character devolpment means absolutly nothing turns it into a second rate piece of crap action game... There is only one line of quests with interesting alternatives.. Other that the dark brotherhood.. They are all generic crap with no real consquences nor challenge.. Thats of course if you have the misfortune of pickinga gimped skil that levels up too fast..

The sole fact that you have access to every skilla nd you can be a master to all of them gives you no replayability what so ever.. AND the mere fact that the story is generic garbage doesn't help it much either.. With such a huge landscape you would think exploring would be fun.. BUT IT IS NOT.. 99% of all the udngeons are generic garbage.. I might as well do the same dungeon over and over agian the first I come across because they will have the same dififculty as well as drops..

To bring at least a little light to this, you obviously didnt read the actual interview. The lead designer on Fallout is the person responsible for the dark brotherhood quest line in Oblivion

Who cares, its still being made by Beth as a whole.. I am not expecting this game to be very good at all..

[QUOTE="koza_76"]Tell me if I'm wrong here, but I do beleive I read somewhere that Fergus Urquart (and whichever company he currently works in) bought the licence for Wasteland. I remember reading it but can't remember where.-wildflower-

I believe you're thinking of Brian Fargo and his company inXile. A remake (or sequel) to Wasteland would be wonderful but remember this is the same company that updated a Bard's Tale with less than stellar results. Hopefully they can atone for that mess of a game with a new and incredible Wasteland. I guess we will have to wait and see.

I do beleive you are right sir. Thanks for the confirmation.

[QUOTE="koza_76"]Tell me if I'm wrong here, but I do beleive I read somewhere that Fergus Urquart (and whichever company he currently works in) bought the licence for Wasteland. I remember reading it but can't remember where.-wildflower-

I believe you're thinking of Brian Fargo and his company inXile. A remake (or sequel) to Wasteland would be wonderful but remember this is the same company that updated a Bard's Tale with less than stellar results. Hopefully they can atone for that mess of a game with a new and incredible Wasteland. I guess we will have to wait and see.

I wouldn't really trust him considering the horrible work his team did on the bards tale, and his interview with 1up where he actually stated that beth would be one of the 3 top devs he would want to work on the fallout ip.

The man has fallen off.

"In Fallout 3, the player will come across schematics for different custom-made weapons. These might be found in different places in the world, or obtained as quest rewards. Each set of schematics lets you build a certain, pre-determined weapon, as long as you've got all the components, and most of the components are junk objects you'll find in the world."

Sounds familiar? That's probably because MMORPG's have done this since the dawn of... MMORPG's?

inoperativeRS

Actually, this feature was done very well in Arcanum (which was made by the original developers of Fallout, if I'm not mistaken).

Anyway, I'm slightly glad that they cut out lengthy, meaningful dialogue - mainly because Bethesda has shown no talent for dialogue writing in the past.

If they're going to be horribly mutilating the corpse of the Fallout series, they may as well play on their 'strengths', and not try to focus on stuff that they're not good at doing (like role-playing or humour).

[QUOTE="inoperativeRS"]

"In Fallout 3, the player will come across schematics for different custom-made weapons. These might be found in different places in the world, or obtained as quest rewards. Each set of schematics lets you build a certain, pre-determined weapon, as long as you've got all the components, and most of the components are junk objects you'll find in the world."

Sounds familiar? That's probably because MMORPG's have done this since the dawn of... MMORPG's?

Planeforger

Actually, this feature was done very well in Arcanum (which was made by the original developers of Fallout, if I'm not mistaken).

Anyway, I'm slightly glad that they cut out lengthy, meaningful dialogue - mainly because Bethesda has shown no talent for dialogue writing in the past.

If they're going to be horribly mutilating the corpse of the Fallout series, they may as well play on their 'strengths', and not try to focus on stuff that they're not good at doing (like role-playing or humour).

Arcanum is one of those games I should play but always forget when I'd have time to do so.

Collecting items in order to build new items CAN be done right, Bioshock does it quite well, but in that case we're talking about "building" ammo and supplies, not whole weapons. Do you actually build real weapons in arcanum? I just find the whole idea of building weapons out of thrash and junk stupid, it makes no sense and is mostly just a way to make the game longer by forcing the player to backtrack and grind enemies in order to get the ingredients.

And, well, in my own stupidity I actually believed bethesda would be able to pull off a real fallout game, which is why I'm so disappointed by the lack of meaningful dialogue.

lol god, the fallout purist fangirls are so annoyingFrozenalive224

Care to elaborate?

[QUOTE="VooDooPC"]I have played, "utter garbage", and Oblivion is not it. It may be far from perfect but please go play some more games before you throw meaningless insults towards great games. Go play Loki, Dungeon Lords, or Rage of Mages too see what real, "utter garbage", is.sSubZerOo

I stand by my claim its a dumbed down piece of garbage unmodded.. The sole fact everything is leveled and character devolpment means absolutly nothing turns it into a second rate piece of crap action game... There is only one line of quests with interesting alternatives.. Other that the dark brotherhood.. They are all generic crap with no real consquences nor challenge.. Thats of course if you have the misfortune of pickinga gimped skil that levels up too fast..

The sole fact that you have access to every skilla nd you can be a master to all of them gives you no replayability what so ever.. AND the mere fact that the story is generic garbage doesn't help it much either.. With such a huge landscape you would think exploring would be fun.. BUT IT IS NOT.. 99% of all the udngeons are generic garbage.. I might as well do the same dungeon over and over agian the first I come across because they will have the same dififculty as well as drops..

here's a novel idea.. if you already know you won't like it, then don't play it. and if you know you can do better... then stfu and design your own game that everyone and their mother will love instead crying on a forum about a game that you haven't played yet.

I just find the whole idea of building weapons out of thrash and junk stupid, it makes no sense and is mostly just a way to make the game longer by forcing the player to backtrack and grind enemies in order to get the ingredients.inoperativeRS

Funny, I must have missed the part of the interview where he said that the game forces you create these weapons. I also must have missed the part where he mentions grinding. All I saw was where he talked about how the items required would be found in places that made sense, I.E. surgical tubing being found in an abandoned hospital.

It also makes perfect sense to make weapons out of spare parts and "junk." how do you think things get invented? that's right, people take existing items and modify them, combine them with other items, etc. in this case you already would have instructions on how to create the weapon, and your repair skill would determine how well you follow those instructions.

"We went back and forth with the impact of dialogue on the character, and ultimately decided we didn't want to penalize or reward the player for carrying on a conversation. What you say and how you say it will certainly affect how NPCs react to you, and whether or not they'll give you quests, but not the ending of the game. That really depends on some of the big decisions you make during the course of the game, as well as your karma. And your karma changes based on your actions. So if you destroy Megaton a city built around a supposedly inert atomic bomb, your karma plummets, so that will certainly affect the ending. But there are other moments too, key moments during the game, that greatly determine which ending you get."

The fact that conversations actually mattered was one of the defining features of Fallout. I'm okay with changing the POV, even the combat system, that's totally understandable considering the age of the original fallouts, but this is just a clear step backwards in every way possible. This probably confirms it isn't possible to play the game as a strictly diplomatic character either. And what do we get in return?

"In Fallout 3, the player will come across schematics for different custom-made weapons. These might be found in different places in the world, or obtained as quest rewards. Each set of schematics lets you build a certain, pre-determined weapon, as long as you've got all the components, and most of the components are junk objects you'll find in the world."

Sounds familiar? That's probably because MMORPG's have done this since the dawn of... MMORPG's? Is bethesda feature by feature trying to turn this game into a single player MMO? Seriously, he goes on saying how you build guns out of bicycle parts and surgical tubes. WTF? I mean, fallout always had its wierd moments of absurd humour but this isn't a joke. You could as well name the game "MacGyver and the angry supermutants" and no one would notice the differance.

Yep, I've now officially joined the Bethesda haters. Fallout is as dead as it was before the announcement of "fallout" 3.

inoperativeRS

I can't recall a single conversation I had in the original Fallouts that changed the ending of the game. Yeah, you could talk a guy into not fighting you... or you could sneak past him... or you could go in guns blazing. There were multiple ways to solve any one encounter. But the ending of the game wasn't different depending on whether you used stealth or diplomacy or a disguise or anything else to get through a situation. The things that made for different ending were the major things, like whether you completed major (but not necesary) side quests and such. Isn't that the exact same thing he's saying in this interview,

"What you say and how you say it will certainly affect how NPCs react to you, and whether they'll give you quests, but not the ending of the game. That really depends on some of the big decisions you make..."

Sounds like the originals to me. Talk nice to that mutie and he will react favorably to you, ie won't attack, talk trash to that npc and he will react unfavorably, ie wont give you that important quest or even turn hostile.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="VooDooPC"]I have played, "utter garbage", and Oblivion is not it. It may be far from perfect but please go play some more games before you throw meaningless insults towards great games. Go play Loki, Dungeon Lords, or Rage of Mages too see what real, "utter garbage", is.garayl

I stand by my claim its a dumbed down piece of garbage unmodded.. The sole fact everything is leveled and character devolpment means absolutly nothing turns it into a second rate piece of crap action game... There is only one line of quests with interesting alternatives.. Other that the dark brotherhood.. They are all generic crap with no real consquences nor challenge.. Thats of course if you have the misfortune of pickinga gimped skil that levels up too fast..

The sole fact that you have access to every skilla nd you can be a master to all of them gives you no replayability what so ever.. AND the mere fact that the story is generic garbage doesn't help it much either.. With such a huge landscape you would think exploring would be fun.. BUT IT IS NOT.. 99% of all the udngeons are generic garbage.. I might as well do the same dungeon over and over agian the first I come across because they will have the same dififculty as well as drops..

here's a novel idea.. if you already know you won't like it, then don't play it. and if you know you can do better... then stfu and design your own game that everyone and their mother will love instead crying on a forum about a game that you haven't played yet.

MOst people who hate oblivion(Myself included) were actually extremely hyped up about the game until we installed it onto our HDD's and found out that it wa sa piece of garbage. I'm sure subzero was the same

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="VooDooPC"]I have played, "utter garbage", and Oblivion is not it. It may be far from perfect but please go play some more games before you throw meaningless insults towards great games. Go play Loki, Dungeon Lords, or Rage of Mages too see what real, "utter garbage", is.garayl

I stand by my claim its a dumbed down piece of garbage unmodded.. The sole fact everything is leveled and character devolpment means absolutly nothing turns it into a second rate piece of crap action game... There is only one line of quests with interesting alternatives.. Other that the dark brotherhood.. They are all generic crap with no real consquences nor challenge.. Thats of course if you have the misfortune of pickinga gimped skil that levels up too fast..

The sole fact that you have access to every skilla nd you can be a master to all of them gives you no replayability what so ever.. AND the mere fact that the story is generic garbage doesn't help it much either.. With such a huge landscape you would think exploring would be fun.. BUT IT IS NOT.. 99% of all the udngeons are generic garbage.. I might as well do the same dungeon over and over agian the first I come across because they will have the same dififculty as well as drops..

here's a novel idea.. if you already know you won't like it, then don't play it. and if you know you can do better... then stfu and design your own game that everyone and their mother will love instead crying on a forum about a game that you haven't played yet.

That is so immature and naive. Yes because everyone who thinks a game is rubbish is going to leave their current job and then go into the gaming industry knowing that they will have a studio team to lead into making a game? get real kid.

That is so immature and naive. Yes because everyone who thinks a game is rubbish is going to leave their current job and then go into the gaming industry knowing that they will have a studio team to lead into making a game? get real kid.ElectricNZ

Ah, because whining about how horrible a game is simply because it didn't live up to your expectations is mature and informed? I think he makes a very valid point. If you truly think you can do better, get into game design. if not, shut up. It's not too terribly hard to make an independent game, look at Darwinia. Made by a team of four people, and almost universally praised by critics.

Maybe you need to get real...

[QUOTE="ElectricNZ"]That is so immature and naive. Yes because everyone who thinks a game is rubbish is going to leave their current job and then go into the gaming industry knowing that they will have a studio team to lead into making a game? get real kid.Mediocre_man90

Ah, because whining about how horrible a game is simply because it didn't live up to your expectations is mature and informed? I think he makes a very valid point. If you truly think you can do better, get into game design. if not, shut up. It's not too terribly hard to make an independent game, look at Darwinia. Made by a team of four people, and almost universally praised by critics.

Maybe you need to get real...

So I guess no one can say big rigs is a horrible game if they've never designed a game before.....right....

So I guess no one can say big rigs is a horrible game if they've never designed a game before.....right....

onemic

I agree. People have a right to critizise something without being able to do better. I can complain about products I buy without making similar products myself. I can pick on athletes that make mistakes too, same thing

So I guess no one can say big rigs is a horrible game if they've never designed a game before.....right....

onemic

Theoretically, yes. in reality, no. Big Rigs is pretty much horrible all across the board, and I really doubt you can find anyone who would argue otherwise. Oblivion, on the other hand, is praised by the vast majority of the critics. People complain and say it's a horrible game because there are a few things wrong with it, but in reality it's not that bad a game. The person who said 'shut up or make a better game yourself' was illustrating the fact that perfect games come along very rarely, if at all, and that its juvenile to declare a game to be utter garbage simply because it isn't perfect.

I'm almost positive that I could make a better game than big rigs, but that's not the point of the original statement. It's been taken far too literally, and I am partially to blame. He meant that one shouldn't accuse a decent game of being utter trash unless they can back it up, and I simply wanted to show that it's entirely possible to make a damn good game without a huge design team and a $30 million budget.

lol at "MacGyver and the angry supermutants" they should really make a game like that

but anyway don't judge to harshly before the game is out you may find that it work well

Say what you will about bethesda, but they put an insane amount of work into Oblivion. And I am not just speaking about the fundamentals such as visuals and gameplay, I am talking about the little stuff as well such as the countless books, the dialog, how they made each town unique, and the numerous side quests and factions (fighters guild, mages guild, brotherhood, etc).

Now, forgive me, but I have never played theprevious Elder Scrolls game so I have no basis of comparison to how Bethesda "ruined" Oblivion(I imagine its how I feel about my favorite game, Deus Ex, and its atrocious sequal Deus Ex 2...good comparison?), but if they work as hard with the Fallout material as they did with the Elder Scrolls material, we should get an AWESOME game.

We all know it wont play like the original already, so just accept it. At least its in the hands of a good developer who will put the work into it required to make it a great game.

[QUOTE="ElectricNZ"]That is so immature and naive. Yes because everyone who thinks a game is rubbish is going to leave their current job and then go into the gaming industry knowing that they will have a studio team to lead into making a game? get real kid.Mediocre_man90

Ah, because whining about how horrible a game is simply because it didn't live up to your expectations is mature and informed? I think he makes a very valid point. If you truly think you can do better, get into game design. if not, shut up. It's not too terribly hard to make an independent game, look at Darwinia. Made by a team of four people, and almost universally praised by critics.

Maybe you need to get real...

This is a gaming forum on a gaming website. Also, the very idea that you should not criticize a game merely because you don't have the technical skill to make a better one is just plain ludicrous. By that logic, no reviewer at Gamespot or any other site should give bad reviews, movie critics should never give bad reviews. How logical is that? If you can't face the fact that a game sucks, you are the pinnacle of fanboyism.

[QUOTE="onemic"]

So I guess no one can say big rigs is a horrible game if they've never designed a game before.....right....

Mediocre_man90

Theoretically, yes. in reality, no. Big Rigs is pretty much horrible all across the board, and I really doubt you can find anyone who would argue otherwise. Oblivion, on the other hand, is praised by the vast majority of the critics. People complain and say it's a horrible game because there are a few things wrong with it, but in reality it's not that bad a game. The person who said 'shut up or make a better game yourself' was illustrating the fact that perfect games come along very rarely, if at all, and that its juvenile to declare a game to be utter garbage simply because it isn't perfect.

I'm almost positive that I could make a better game than big rigs, but that's not the point of the original statement. It's been taken far too literally, and I am partially to blame. He meant that one shouldn't accuse a decent game of being utter trash unless they can back it up, and I simply wanted to show that it's entirely possible to make a damn good game without a huge design team and a $30 million budget.

Okay I see what you're saying, but Oblivion still isn't that great a game. People like subzero are over-exageratting with their feelings about the game mainly because of the mindless praise the game's getting from reviewers.(Just like how many PC gamers say that halo is horrible)

And bojangles. THe books and other little details found in oblivion are ripped mostly from TESIII: morrowind

This is a gaming forum on a gaming website. Also, the very idea that you should not criticize a game merely because you don't have the technical skill to make a better one is just plain ludicrous. By that logic, no reviewer at Gamespot or any other site should give bad reviews, movie critics should never give bad reviews. How logical is that? If you can't face the fact that a game sucks, you are the pinnacle of fanboyism.

Bit_Blit

Wait, you're calling me a fanboy because I'm saying a game didn't suck? I agree that Oblivion has major flaws, but not enough to consider it "utter trash." The leveling system was horrible, yes, but it seemed like a somewhat decent idea at the time, and it just ended up being a failed attempt at innovation. Will I stop buying games that Bethesda makes simply because they attempted to innovate? no. If that makes me a fanboy, whatever.

Second, pay attention to other things that I've posted rather than just picking and chosing posts. I'm not going to argue a point that I've already addressed, as we're far enough off topic as it is.