Finally dipped my toe into the PC gaming waters...

[QUOTE="gamer620"]

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

1. First Civ 4...then try Galactic Civilizations 2 and Sins of a Solar Empire! Will blow your mind

2. Oh yes, FPSs and RPGs are far, far better on PC. Consoles dont get the old school DnD RPGs we get, they get watered down action-games-with-dashes-of-RPG like Oblivion and Fallout 3. Controls are better (give it some time to adjust, but you'll see what I mean) and the visuals are better

PunishedOne

Compared to what the PC is used to (Baldur's Gate, Planescape, Icewind Dale, Witcher, Neverwinter Nights, Morrowind, etc.) Oblivion and Fallout 3 ARE watered down.

I completely agree that Oblivion and Fallout 3 are not on the same level as previous Elder Scrolls games, but your comment lumps Oblivion and Fallout 3 in the same category as Diablo, which is as you say "action-games-with-dashes-of-RPG". And Icewind Dale is hardly on the same level as Oblivion or Fallout 3. ID is in my opinion the weakest infinity engine RPG. It was a good game, but in my opinion Oblivion AND Fallout 3 are better games, especially on the RPG front.

While they certainly aren't on the level as Planescape: Torment (my favorite), both games still have expansive worlds to explore, hundreds of NPCs to interact with, decisions that impact future events (the type of character you play, areas you can't access or lose access to, NPC perceptions of you, the ending you receive, ect)) These are all huge staples of the genre, and to call games with that much substance a watered down action game with a "dash" of rpg is just ridiculous. Oblivion isn't even that heavy on action. You can spend hours just exploring the over world and not encountering a whole lot of combat.

I really find it amazing that you lump Oblivion and Fallout 3 into this "action-games-with-dashes-of-RPG" but then say The Witcher (another RPG i really enjoy) which outside of the choices you can make and its story, is even more action oriented and far more linear than both Oblivion and Fallout 3.

FPS and RPG are THE domain of the PC. Try them, you won't regret it. Maybe buy The Orange Box?Mr_Versipellis

[QUOTE="Conjuration"]

Ok. I'm amazed.

Quick story:
My cousin got me hooked on Civilization Revolutionfor the PS3. After I beat that game every way possible, he tells me: "That's nothing. You got to try Civilization IV Warlords on the computer."
I've always had this mental block when it came to PC gaming. I don't know why but I just always thought it was too nerdy for me.

Anyway, I go and buy Civilization IV Warlords, and install it on my PC.

This is the greatest strategy game experience I've ever had in my entire life. I now see the difference between PC and console gaming. Civ IV on PC is 100x the game it is on PS3.

And I'm not here to bash consoles. I just want to express my amazement towards how advanced PC strategy games are compared to ANYTHING i've ever seen or played on any console. It's total night and day. I'll be playing all my strategy games on PC from now on.

My cousin now tells me that FPS's and RPG's are better on the PC too.
IDK about that. Really?

knight0151

He is ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.

EVERY (Well, about 99 %)single multiplatform game is better on the PC. In some way or another...

Avoid the bad ports like GTA IV and you should be fine.

[QUOTE="broken_bass_bin"]

[QUOTE="Conjuration"]

My cousin now tells me that FPS's and RPG's are better on the PC too.
IDK about that. Really?

NSR34GTR

Absolutely

[QUOTE="knight0151"]

[QUOTE="Conjuration"]

Ok. I'm amazed.

Quick story:
My cousin got me hooked on Civilization Revolutionfor the PS3. After I beat that game every way possible, he tells me: "That's nothing. You got to try Civilization IV Warlords on the computer."
I've always had this mental block when it came to PC gaming. I don't know why but I just always thought it was too nerdy for me.

Anyway, I go and buy Civilization IV Warlords, and install it on my PC.

This is the greatest strategy game experience I've ever had in my entire life. I now see the difference between PC and console gaming. Civ IV on PC is 100x the game it is on PS3.

And I'm not here to bash consoles. I just want to express my amazement towards how advanced PC strategy games are compared to ANYTHING i've ever seen or played on any console. It's total night and day. I'll be playing all my strategy games on PC from now on.

My cousin now tells me that FPS's and RPG's are better on the PC too.
IDK about that. Really?

TerroRizing

He is ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.

EVERY (Well, about 99 %)single multiplatform game is better on the PC. In some way or another...

Avoid the bad ports like GTA IV and you should be fine.

it does hmm i thought it was the other way around and i've played the consoles version its not that bad don't know about the pc version

[QUOTE="NSR34GTR"]

[QUOTE="broken_bass_bin"]

Absolutely

naval

[QUOTE="TerroRizing"]

[QUOTE="knight0151"]

He is ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.

EVERY (Well, about 99 %)single multiplatform game is better on the PC. In some way or another...

Avoid the bad ports like GTA IV and you should be fine.

it does hmm i thought it was the other way around and i've played the consoles version its not that bad don't know about the pc version

[QUOTE="TerroRizing"]Even GTA IV is much better on pc, it runs like complete trash on console.

it does hmm i thought it was the other way around and i've played the consoles version its not that bad don't know about the pc version

[QUOTE="naval"]

[QUOTE="NSR34GTR"] true this

tony2077ca

[QUOTE="TerroRizing"][QUOTE="tony2077ca"]

it does hmm i thought it was the other way around and i've played the consoles version its not that bad don't know about the pc version

tony2077ca

[QUOTE="tony2077ca"][QUOTE="naval"] I also agree, there are other genres too

naval

you at least gave them a chance right?

[QUOTE="naval"][QUOTE="tony2077ca"] i disagree not all are better and there are some good fps and rpgs on consoles if your willing to give them a chancetony2077ca

you at least gave them a chance right?

Well, congrats on finding your way to the undisputed king of platforms for strategy games (and pretty much everything else)!

Who cares what is considered nerdy and not... different people have different perceptions about what is nerdy and what isn't anyway. To me there's "good" nerdy and "bad" nerdy. The "bad" nerdy for me is a fixation - particularly with fantasy stuff, role playing, wargaming and such, for the superficial aspects of it, to give an example. The "good" nerdy is an interest in pursuing depth in all areas of life, be it in entertainment, any kind of science or anything else, and not to simply be content with whatever is around or whatever happens to be "the thing" at the moment. The "good" nerdy can be bad if one loses sight of what's most important to them, the people around them and the world at large.

I'm sure that others have different opinions about what constitues a nerd than I have. I wouldn't call myself one, but I have such tendencies and I think most people do. It's a very humane thing!

I don't agree that Civ IV is that amazing. Combat can be so annoying, and I don't like the ahistorical aspect of it. But there are just so many ways to play it, and many interesting choices (and some less interesting) to make throughout the game.

Gotta hate when a spearman destoys a tank!

Yes brother, welcome to the Light!

[QUOTE="naval"][QUOTE="tony2077ca"] i disagree not all are better and there are some good fps and rpgs on consoles if your willing to give them a chancetony2077ca

you at least gave them a chance right?

I'm sorry sir i think you are confused. this is the "PC Games forum" not the "console fanboy forum."

its ok, honest mistake on your part.

[QUOTE="tony2077ca"]

[QUOTE="naval"] I did tried PS2 - the so considered king of jrpgs along with ps1--- found them overly melodramatic , poorly written , badly presented, lame combat, annoying underdeveloped characters etc etc , but that's just mewith_teeth26

you at least gave them a chance right?

I'm sorry sir i think you are confused. this is the "PC Games forum" not the "console fanboy forum."

its ok, honest mistake on your part.

[QUOTE="tony2077ca"]

[QUOTE="naval"] I did tried PS2 - the so considered king of jrpgs along with ps1--- found them overly melodramatic , poorly written , badly presented, lame combat, annoying underdeveloped characters etc etc , but that's just menaval

you at least gave them a chance right?

[QUOTE="naval"][QUOTE="tony2077ca"]

you at least gave them a chance right?

tony2077ca

[QUOTE="tony2077ca"][QUOTE="naval"] yes ... I tried FFX, FFXII .. them someone told Suikoden and Shaod Heards, so I tried Suikoden 3 and Sahodw Hearts Covenant, then someone said maybe action rpgs are more to your liking I tired Kingdom hearts. Also tried Dragon Quest VIII. Disgaea 2 (this one had interesting combat in the beginning) and may a few morenaval

before I left my PS2 somewhere in my room gathering dust, I left FFxii unfinished.

JRPG is part of young Japanese anime/manga/novel subculture. trinity soul is no different.

if you're into it, finely tuned with it...it's fine, but that doesn't appeal to everybody, including the gaming side of life.

a moving story of any JRPG could easily be overtly sentimental and melodramatic in the eyes of those who're outside of the Jpop circle.

If JRPG's story by average has the quality of a Mamoru Oshii or a Satoshi Kon films, I might give them more respect, but that's not the case. moreover, even so, that'll be because of elements other than "gameplay" which is the most important thing in gaming.

before I left my PS2 somewhere in my room gathering dust, I left FFxii unfinished.

JRPG is part of young Japanese anime/manga/novel subculture. trinity soul is no different.

if you're into it, finely tuned with it...it's fine, but that doesn't appeal to everybody, including the gaming side of life.

a moving story of any JRPG could easily be overtly sentimental and melodramatic in the eyes of those who're outside of the Jpop circle.

If JRPG's story by average has the quality of a Mamoru Oshii or a Satoshi Kon films, I might give them more respect, but that's not the case. moreover, even so, that'll be because of elements other than "gameplay" which is the most important thing in gaming.

teardropmina

As long as Baldur's Gate (the true games) are on PC, our rigs will always be the home of RPGs. :)Gammit10

[QUOTE="with_teeth26"]

[QUOTE="tony2077ca"]

you at least gave them a chance right?

tony2077ca

I'm sorry sir i think you are confused. this is the "PC Games forum" not the "console fanboy forum."

its ok, honest mistake on your part.

Its hidden in yours posts, but not very hard to find. Its a fact, a genuine fact that FPS games control better with a keyboard and mouse than with a controller. All the classic WRPG's are on the pc, most of them are PC exclusives. The genre developed on the PC, and un-developed on the consoles.

[QUOTE="tony2077ca"]

[QUOTE="with_teeth26"]

I'm sorry sir i think you are confused. this is the "PC Games forum" not the "console fanboy forum."

its ok, honest mistake on your part.

with_teeth26

Its hidden in yours posts, but not very hard to find. Its a fact, a genuine fact that FPS games control better with a keyboard and mouse than with a controller. All the classic WRPG's are on the pc, most of them are PC exclusives. The genre developed on the PC, and un-developed on the consoles.

im glad you joined us as consoles are for noobs mostlyFurio12

[QUOTE="with_teeth26"]

[QUOTE="tony2077ca"] i think your confused where does it say i'm a fanboy

tony2077ca

Its hidden in yours posts, but not very hard to find. Its a fact, a genuine fact that FPS games control better with a keyboard and mouse than with a controller. All the classic WRPG's are on the pc, most of them are PC exclusives. The genre developed on the PC, and un-developed on the consoles.

i've never played a JRPG and will die a happy man if i never do. Oblivon wasn't really an RPG, it was more of an Action Adventure game. In fact, it could only be considered an RPG at all on the pc, if heavily modded.

Fallout 3, while more of an RPG, failed in some more crucial gameplay elements. I think Bethesda has been on a slippery downhill slope since Morrowind.

[QUOTE="tony2077ca"][QUOTE="with_teeth26"]

Its hidden in yours posts, but not very hard to find. Its a fact, a genuine fact that FPS games control better with a keyboard and mouse than with a controller. All the classic WRPG's are on the pc, most of them are PC exclusives. The genre developed on the PC, and un-developed on the consoles.

with_teeth26

i've never played a JRPG and will die a happy man if i never do. Oblivon wasn't really an RPG, it was more of an Action Adventure game. In fact, it could only be considered an RPG at all on the pc, if heavily modded.

Fallout 3, while more of an RPG, failed in some more crucial gameplay elements. I think Bethesda has been on a slippery downhill slope since Morrowind.

[QUOTE="with_teeth26"]

[QUOTE="tony2077ca"] most pc wrpgs are clones of diablo or neverwinter nights i'm not saying there bad just not that much different jrpgs are not much different i just like that style of gameplay more. the games like oblivion and fallout 3 are a good change of pace. for fps i don't see much difference between pc and consoles except the wii tony2077ca

i've never played a JRPG and will die a happy man if i never do. Oblivon wasn't really an RPG, it was more of an Action Adventure game. In fact, it could only be considered an RPG at all on the pc, if heavily modded.

Fallout 3, while more of an RPG, failed in some more crucial gameplay elements. I think Bethesda has been on a slippery downhill slope since Morrowind.

Haha, its the Chance Hit stuff that makes Morrowind a true RPG. Its all stat based. I loved Oblivion as an Action Adventure game (with mods Oblivion is one of my favorite game of all time), but it failed on the RPG front.

[QUOTE="tony2077ca"]

[QUOTE="with_teeth26"]

i've never played a JRPG and will die a happy man if i never do. Oblivon wasn't really an RPG, it was more of an Action Adventure game. In fact, it could only be considered an RPG at all on the pc, if heavily modded.

Fallout 3, while more of an RPG, failed in some more crucial gameplay elements. I think Bethesda has been on a slippery downhill slope since Morrowind.

with_teeth26

Haha, its the Chance Hit stuff that makes Morrowind a true RPG. Its all stat based. I loved Oblivion as an Action Adventure game (with mods Oblivion is one of my favorite game of all time), but it failed on the RPG front.

[QUOTE="with_teeth26"]

[QUOTE="tony2077ca"] i think oblivion is better then morrowind don't like this chance to hit stuff. try the last renmant its a jrpg and different from most rpgs on the pc

tony2077ca

Haha, its the Chance Hit stuff that makes Morrowind a true RPG. Its all stat based. I loved Oblivion as an Action Adventure game (with mods Oblivion is one of my favorite game of all time), but it failed on the RPG front.

Haha, i used to ask the exact same question. I used to defend Oblivion as being a great RPG, i thought that all an RPG had to have was a stat-based leveling system. What a true RPG needs are important choices which have palpable consequences, as well as a stat based leveling system which governs how you play. Take the quest in fallout 3 where you get to decide if you want to blow up Megaton. That is a clear choice with obvious consequences.

Oblivion also had enemies which leveled with you, so you could never become very powerful. While Oblivion had a few RPG elements, it had no real choices, and you could level up all your stats as much as you wanted, so you didn't have to favour one play style over another at all.

[QUOTE="tony2077ca"]

[QUOTE="with_teeth26"]

Haha, its the Chance Hit stuff that makes Morrowind a true RPG. Its all stat based. I loved Oblivion as an Action Adventure game (with mods Oblivion is one of my favorite game of all time), but it failed on the RPG front.

with_teeth26

Haha, i used to ask the exact same question. I used to defend Oblivion as being a great RPG, i thought that all an RPG had to have was a stat-based leveling system. What a true RPG needs are important choices which have palpable consequences, as well as a stat based leveling system which governs how you play. Take the quest in fallout 3 where you get to decide if you want to blow up Megaton. That is a clear choice with obvious consequences.

Oblivion also had enemies which leveled with you, so you could never become very powerful. While Oblivion had a few RPG elements, it had no real choices, and you could level up all your stats as much as you wanted, so you didn't have to favour one play style over another at all.

[QUOTE="with_teeth26"]

[QUOTE="tony2077ca"] what is a true rpg is there even such a thing

tony2077ca

Haha, i used to ask the exact same question. I used to defend Oblivion as being a great RPG, i thought that all an RPG had to have was a stat-based leveling system. What a true RPG needs are important choices which have palpable consequences, as well as a stat based leveling system which governs how you play. Take the quest in fallout 3 where you get to decide if you want to blow up Megaton. That is a clear choice with obvious consequences.

Oblivion also had enemies which leveled with you, so you could never become very powerful. While Oblivion had a few RPG elements, it had no real choices, and you could level up all your stats as much as you wanted, so you didn't have to favour one play style over another at all.

I've said all i can, hopefully you'll figure it out eventually (it took me a while). Just because a game isn't an RPG doesn't mean its bad. that is what you have to realize before you can accept that a lot of games you thought to be RPG's arent 'true' RPG's.

[QUOTE="tony2077ca"][QUOTE="with_teeth26"]

Haha, i used to ask the exact same question. I used to defend Oblivion as being a great RPG, i thought that all an RPG had to have was a stat-based leveling system. What a true RPG needs are important choices which have palpable consequences, as well as a stat based leveling system which governs how you play. Take the quest in fallout 3 where you get to decide if you want to blow up Megaton. That is a clear choice with obvious consequences.

Oblivion also had enemies which leveled with you, so you could never become very powerful. While Oblivion had a few RPG elements, it had no real choices, and you could level up all your stats as much as you wanted, so you didn't have to favour one play style over another at all.

with_teeth26

I've said all i can, hopefully you'll figure it out eventually (it took me a while). Just because a game isn't an RPG doesn't mean its bad. that is what you have to realize before you can accept that a lot of games you thought to be RPG's arent 'true' RPG's.

before I left my PS2 somewhere in my room gathering dust, I left FFxii unfinished.

JRPG is part of young Japanese anime/manga/novel subculture. trinity soul is no different.

if you're into it, finely tuned with it...it's fine, but that doesn't appeal to everybody, including the gaming side of life.

a moving story of any JRPG could easily be overtly sentimental and melodramatic in the eyes of those who're outside of the Jpop circle.

If JRPG's story by average has the quality of a Mamoru Oshii or a Satoshi Kon films, I might give them more respect, but that's not the case. moreover, even so, that'll be because of elements other than "gameplay" which is the most important thing in gaming.

teardropmina

i would rather not talk about this on a pc forum, but since you all don't seem to mind, i'll just share my 2 cents here. but i'll keep it short. :)

imo, jrpgs are vastly misunderstood by the westerners, whose judegement rarely goes beyond the face value of these games. in jrpgs, stories are often melodramatic and characters are stereotyped - that much no one can deny. but underneath these conventions are a wide range of mature themes and cultural concerns that, for instance, crpgs rarely, if ever, touch upon. Take FFX as an example. i'm sure many of you are turned away by the part when Yuna and Tidus yell together. too bad, because in its core FFX is about death, loss, reconcilation, and the courage to move on. FFVII, on the other hand, is deeply rooted in the environmental concern, a crucial aspect of the Japanese culture. I can go on for all day long.

the standard w/crpgs definitely get the point for being - looking - grittier and having more belieavable characters, but ultimately, the stories are often standard thoroughfare that allows very little concern for true human conditions. i'd go as far as saying that, in terms of story, none of the top crpgs appear to me as especially sophisticated and subtle. none except Planescape Torment, which is surprisingly philosophical.

I'm not here to change anyone's decision about jrpgs - but i'm not worried either. because knowing and loving a good story is a privilege that not everyone has - in this case, i guess i can count myself lucky. :)

[QUOTE="teardropmina"]

before I left my PS2 somewhere in my room gathering dust, I left FFxii unfinished.

JRPG is part of young Japanese anime/manga/novel subculture. trinity soul is no different.

if you're into it, finely tuned with it...it's fine, but that doesn't appeal to everybody, including the gaming side of life.

a moving story of any JRPG could easily be overtly sentimental and melodramatic in the eyes of those who're outside of the Jpop circle.

If JRPG's story by average has the quality of a Mamoru Oshii or a Satoshi Kon films, I might give them more respect, but that's not the case. moreover, even so, that'll be because of elements other than "gameplay" which is the most important thing in gaming.

Jinroh_basic

i would rather not talk about this on a pc forum, but since you all don't seem to mind, i'll just share my 2 cents here. but i'll keep it short. :)

imo, jrpgs are vastly misunderstood by the westerners, whose judegement rarely goes beyond the face value of these games. in jrpgs, stories are often melodramatic and characters are stereotyped - that much no one can deny. but underneath these conventions are a wide range of mature themes and cultural concerns that, for instance, crpgs rarely, if ever, touch upon. Take FFX as an example. i'm sure many of you are turned away by the part when Yuna and Tidus yell together. too bad, because in its core FFX is about death, loss, reconcilation, and the courage to move on. FFVII, on the other hand, is deeply rooted in the environmental concern, a crucial aspect of the Japanese culture. I can go on for all day long.

the standard w/crpgs definitely get the point for being - looking - grittier and having more belieavable characters, but ultimately, the stories are often standard thoroughfare that allows very little concern for true human conditions. i'd go as far as saying that, in terms of story, none of the top crpgs appear to me as especially sophisticated and subtle. none except Planescape Torment, which is surprisingly philosophical.

I'm not here to change anyone's decision about jrpgs - but i'm not worried either. because knowing and loving a good story is a privilege that not everyone has - in this case, i guess i can count myself lucky. :)

Welcome to the REAL gaming platform :PFr0st3d

[QUOTE="Fr0st3d"]Welcome to the REAL gaming platform :Ptony2077ca

[QUOTE="tony2077ca"][QUOTE="Fr0st3d"]Welcome to the REAL gaming platform :Pdakan45

[QUOTE="KHAndAnime"][QUOTE="dakan45"] He is , those people cant take the fact that x360 is rulling gaming right now...dakan45

sigh..... i'm not surprised about how this thread is turning out to be.... pc gaming is fantastic, so is console. is it really THAT hard to give things the proper credits they deserve?

dakan, what's so surprising that the majority of posters on the pc forum are devoted to their platform of choice? can't we have a proper discussion without turning everything into a system war?

sigh..... i'm not surprised about how this thread is turning out to be.... pc gaming is fantastic, so is console. is it really THAT hard to give things the proper credits they deserve?

dakan, what's so surprising that the majority of posters on the pc forum are devoted to their platform of choice? can't we have a proper discussion without turning everything into a system war?

Jinroh_basic