If you think Origin deletes your games, then you've got it wrong

[QUOTE="Renevent42"]Your opinion is not the universal truth about EA's reputation...there's tons of people who do like them and regard the company positively and the games they make as well. There's people who hate Valve as well...the same with any company. Reputation is all dependent on who you ask. The fact is EA is a highly successful company with millions of people who play and enjoy their games worldwide. You may not like them, and in certain circles they have a poor reputation, however, that is not a universal truth.iamrob7

It's not my opinion, like I said, I couldn't care less about EA. I have no opinion on them whatsoever. I'm talking about what I observe and what is prevalent on any gaming site I've visited. A general disdain for EA, born out of EA damaging (in the various fans eyes) well loved franchises. You might disagree with their opinion, but from what I've seen you would be in the minority and even if you weren't, there are still a lot of people who do not like EA. That's a handicap that Valve does not have. In terms of reputation with gamers Valve has a considerable advantage.

Hate them as in their games, you obviously don't care about EA's games, that's exactly what you said since you didn't even consider the biggest money makers from EA, those aren't made by Bioware or freshly purchased devs, it's them and their core studios, Maxis and Dice.

What you seem to not understand is that you're pointlessly talking about reputation when it's flawless, forums are all, absolutely all about hate, or did you not understand yet after years? what you see on forums is of absolutely no relevance to what actually happens "out there".

There's two ways to sell games, making good games and getting some sales and maybe get lucky with some titles, and being popular, popularity gives you more money with less effort, not all of EA's games and games created by devs owned by EA are great and not all of them sell great, but anything "they" put out easily makes money, be it good or bad, because they are popular, just like Activision.

DanielDust

I don't hate EA's games, stop trying to tell me what I think or I don't think of EA. I enjoyed Crysis 2, I enjoyed Dragon Age 2, both games that got EA a lot of criticism and hate. The point I am making is entirely unrelated to my own opinion.

Maxis and Dice were bought by EA, just like Bioware. They are not looked upon as EA by a lot of gamers, that's why you get gamers posting comments like "EA has had a terrible influence" on this developer or that developer they've brought. "They've ruined this franchise or that franchise". EA are viewed as an obstrusive corporate influence on their developers.

You still don't understand the discussion at hand, this has nothing to do with money or how many games they sell. We are talking about reputation and how that effects any dynamic between Steam and Origin. Let me try and break it down for you with a simple clear cartoonish analogy.

Let's say that Adolf Hitler returns from the dead with $10 billlion. He buys lots of games developers who have released excellent games in the past. Those games developers continue to release games that people love and they sell a great deal and make a lot of money. That's because the games produced by the developers are popular, it has nothing to do Adolf Hitler Adolf Hitler is not popular and does not have a good reputation just because the studios he owns produce well loved games that make a lot of money. On the contrary, Adolf Hitler has a bad reputation and is not popular.

Now if Adolf Hitler then releases a rival to Steam and calls it "Hitlers Origins", he is going to have a hard time taking a customer base from Steam, because Valve is a popular well liked company and Adolf is not popular and does not have a good reputation. Adolf is going to have to offer a lot of good games and exclusives to get people to come to him from steam.

I'm using an extreme to highlight the point, because you seem to be missing it. EA have an uphill struggle in terms of reputation in comparison to Valve, that is a big advantage for Valve. EA just has a poor reputation as a company in comparison to Valve, simple as that.

[QUOTE="iamrob7"]

[QUOTE="Renevent42"]Your opinion is not the universal truth about EA's reputation...there's tons of people who do like them and regard the company positively and the games they make as well. There's people who hate Valve as well...the same with any company. Reputation is all dependent on who you ask. The fact is EA is a highly successful company with millions of people who play and enjoy their games worldwide. You may not like them, and in certain circles they have a poor reputation, however, that is not a universal truth.Renevent42

It's not my opinion, like I said, I couldn't care less about EA. I have no opinion on them whatsoever. I'm talking about what I observe and what is prevalent on any gaming site I've visited. A general disdain for EA, born out of EA damaging (in the various fans eyes) well loved franchises. You might disagree with their opinion, but from what I've seen you would be in the minority and even if you weren't, there are still a lot of people who do not like EA. That's a handicap that Valve does not have. In terms of reputation with gamers Valve has a considerable advantage.

lol, that doesn't make sense, you are talking about my opinion of EA's reputation no?...that has nothing whatsoever to do with my opinon of what I've observed.

Let me just make this clear,

My opinion of EA + My opinion of peoples views on EA through observation on forums = 2 completely different things. You are just playing with semantics in a fairly confused way, presumably because you have no real point to make.

As for my opinion of what I've observed regarding EA's popularity. Even "Danieldust" acknowledged that EA receives a lot of hate on forums in his post on the previous page, so I guess it is his "opinion" too. I think you would have to be somewhat in denial to pretend that EA don't receive a great deal of hate from gamers. I've personally seen huge Bioware fans who buy all of Biowares games but absolutely hate EA.

As for you talking about sales again, that has nothing whatsoever to do with what I'm talking about, refer to my previous post in this thread (or indeed any of my initial posts) for reference.

You are using an extreme because otherwise your point falls flat on it's face. EA isn't Adolf Hitler and EA already sells millions of games to happy customers. The whole argument is meaningless because EA is ALREADY participating in the game market place, and is already succeeding. Your perception of their reputation is absolutely meaningless...the facts speak for themselves.Renevent42

lol, no it doesn't, EA are looked upon as the "Adolf Hitler of the gaming world. Name me one games related company who receives anything like the hate that EA does?

Again you don't understand the discussion or the argument at all. You are too busy defending EA for some bizarre reason. I'm talking about the dynamic of reputation between Valve and EA. Valve is simply a far more popular and reputable company in gaming than EA is with gamers. That doesn't mean EA can't succeed at all, that means that EA have to overcome that disadvantage somehow.

"Valve is simply a far more popular and reputable company in gaming than EA is with gamers."

Opinion. Otherwise, please prove it with FACTS.

That's the downfall of your entire argument...it's based on nothing more than your opinion/perception. Your opinion/perceptions also rely entirely of the market segment which you participate in and which you relate to. The gaming market place is bigger than gamespot. It's bigger than forums and the internet.

By the way, I like Steam better than Origin for the record...I just don't like it when I see someone's opinion flaunted around like universal fact.

"Valve is simply a far more popular and reputable company in gaming than EA is with gamers."

Opinion. Otherwise, please prove it with FACTS.

That's the downfall of your entire argument...it's based on nothing more than your opinion/perception. Your opinion/perceptions also rely entirely of the market segment which you participate in and which you relate to. The gaming market place is bigger than gamespot. It's bigger than forums and the internet.

By the way, I like Steam better than Origin for the record...I just don't like it when I see someone's opinion flaunted around like universal fact.

Renevent42

Read my previous post, I already described it as an opinion, an opinion based on observation of peoples comments. Something I might add that Danieldust, who is defending EA, has already said himself. What are you confused about?

If you want to pretend EA don't get huge amounts of hate on gaming forums, that's up to you. In which case your response to me should be;

"I don't believe EA receives hate in gaming forums from gamers often". I would say to you back, fair enough that's your opinion, my opinion through my observation is different, EA receives a lot of hate.

Instead of saying that what you did was tell me all about how EA sells a lot of games, which has nothing whatsoever to do wtih anything I've said.

Nothing you have said has even been relevant or even challenged anything I've said. All you have done thus far is bring up irrelevant points and now tell me that my opinion that EA receive a lot of hate is an "opinion". Something I even specifically expressed in the previous message. So what exactly are you saying that has any relevance to anything I've said whatsoever?

Mr. T, you never were good with logic. All you say is pure nonsense, no it's nothing complex and trying to stay neutral when you're purely subjective. EA has the same reputation as Valve if not better. Here, the simple logic Mr. T: 1. Let's take a developer with good reputation and lets talk about their latest series (it applies to every game they made); DoW 2 sold almost decently, it had lots of hate, CR sold less had less hate, Retribution sold less than that and it had way less hate. 2. Let's take Valve to you so blindly take for granted, it has a lot of "online" haters, a lot of its fans hated CS:S, a lot of people on forums hate Steam everywhere, L4D 2 was a disaster, yet people bought them because they're popular. 3. Now Blizzard, fantastic rep, insanely popular, outrageous amount of haters, people that don't even play their games hate them because of WoW, SC 2, etc. 4. Lastly, Activion, terrible reputation, insanely popular, everyone hates them on forums, yet they sell millions over millions and print cash. Now think about it, of a game that sells let's say 5 mill, you have 10K unique individuals online on the official forums, what does your common sense tell that it will happen? here's a hint, more than half of them are there to complain. This is the reason why you, subjectively think EA has a bad reputation. In conclusion, the more popular a developer is and the more games it sells, the more hate that developer will have "online", in the "real" world their sales will only grow larger with every title, but so will the number of haters. On forums it's entirely about hate, and those hating aren't even a tiny fraction of the fans of those companies, seeing hate on forums is easy it always makes itself known better than positive thoughts. IF you still don't get it, you're obviously confused about what's going on here.DanielDust

Dear god, what has anything I've said got to do with games sales in any way at all? I have at no point said anything about people not buying EA's games. So what on earth are you talking about? You still completely miss the point and are addressing something entirely unrelated to what I am saying. Do you even have a counter argument of any kind because I can't see one?

You already acknowledged yourself that EA receives a lot of hate on the forums. That is called a bad reputation, something Valve does not have. We are talking about a gaming platform run by EA not games from a games developer EA owns.

/yawn

Huge amount of hate on gaming forums, again, is irrelevant and entirely subjective. The FACT is you are parading your own opinions around as facts. Reputation is intangible and unquantifiable. Moreover, reputation is something that is held beyond gaming forums and across multiple platforms.

Sorry sir, your personal opinion and perceptions about EA simply is not universal truth no matter how much you want it to be. More importantly your negative perception is meaningless anyways, as EA has good enough reputation to do business and not only do well but they are one of the largest and most successful game companies out there. That's very much dependent on their reputation as a company and of course the games they develop/publish.

EA may not be popular here and gamespot, or other gaming forums, but that's not the entire gaming universe. That's what YOU seem to be failing at understanding.

"You already acknowledged yourself that EA receives a lot of hate on the forums. That is called a bad reputation, something Valve does not have. We are talking about a gaming platform run by EA not games from a games developer EA owns."

:lol:

There's plenty of people on forums that think VERY negatively of Steam/Valve.

EA has the same reputation as Valve if not better.DanielDust

:lol::lol::lol:

Have you ever considered a profession in stand up comedy?

I'll address you both as one, because you both are suffering the same problem, you are rushing to defend EA from...well...nothing The only difference is that Danieldust accepts EA receives a lot of hate on forums and the other guy is for some reason in denial about it.

Here's how this panned out. I have no particular opinion on EA. I said EA receive a lot of hate on the forums, more than any other gaming company I'm aware of. That means they have a bad reputation with gamers. So for their platform to be successful they are going to need a lot of very good game exclusives to overcome Valves superior reputation with gamers.

At no point did I say anything about EA games sales, I'm talking about their repuation. In fact what I said was, that for instance there are gamers who love Bioware, buy all their games but absolutely hate EA for the influence they have had on Bioware. The same applies to many other EA franchises.

Your response, both of you, constituted as this, in this order.

- You hate EA (later - you hate EA's games)

- EA sells a lot of games

Do tell me how either of those things have anything to do with the point I made? That's right, you can't, so the only thing you can do is constantly repeat your irrelevant points that have zero to do with what I've said.

You only have to look at for instance the C&C5 threads that have popped up to see the comments, "EA stay out of it", bring "Westwood studios back" etc etc. People will buy the games, because thye love the C&C franchise but they still hate EA. This has nothing at all to do with games sales. When it comes to a platform for sales, that reputation amongst gamers is going to give EA a disadvantage. It's really really simple :)

Actually, those weren't my points at all. If that's all you got from my posts you literally have to be willfully trying not to undestand.

Here they are again:

-They are so large/profitable because lot's of people enjoy the games they make...that has everything to do with reputation and popularity. Video game forums do not represent the entirety of gamers and the consumer base as a whole.

-Huge amount of hate on gaming forums, again, is irrelevant and entirely subjective. The FACT is you are parading your own opinions around as facts. Reputation is intangible and unquantifiable. Moreover, reputation is something that is held beyond gaming forums and across multiple platforms.

-Your personal opinion and perceptions about EA simply is not universal truth no matter how much you want it to be. More importantly your negative perception is meaningless anyways, as EA has good enough reputation to do business and not only do well but they are one of the largest and most successful game companies out there. That's very much dependent on their reputation as a company and of course the games they develop/publish.

-EA may not be popular here and gamespot, or other gaming forums, but that's not the entire gaming universe. That's what YOU seem to be failing at understanding.

-There's plenty of people on forums that think VERY negatively of Steam/Valve (as well and I can post PLENTY of examples)

I made other points as well earlier in the thread...bottom line is your own personal perception of their reputation is not universal truth and does not mean that every consumer feels the same way. They have millions of people who all hold them in high enough regard to consistently purchase from them and enjoy their products/services. Reputation can vary between different groups of people and in a market with literally MILLIONS of people can vary greatly.

That's how reputation and popularity got created, sales, if you sell 10 million copies you're going to have more haters than a game selling 100k copies, when you have 25 series that sell together over 200million copies you're going to have a little more haters than a company with 2 games and 4 million sales, point is, EA is huge, mostly haters post on forums, you're going to have a lot of haters, that's not even close to a real representation of the real "reputation". Reputation is more or less equal to popularity and = to sales, if EA has such a bad rep then they wouldn't be here today as the biggest entity in the entire gaming (if you don't consider the entire MS company worth like 8 billion $ as part of gaming, not just the Xbox section).

Talking about games hated but loved in the past is not a relevant thing here, if people hate what they see they don't buy, simple, for some reason C&C 4 had a lot of success for certain types of gamers but it simply didn't have sales, it was left with lots of grumpy buyers and few sattisfied buyers, now if we talk about RA 3, it's the opposite, it had lots of sales (believe it or not), it got lots of love but obviously lots of "online" hate for not being like they wanted it, only Rising was disliked by everyone, so it really does have "everything" to do with sales, but there will always be certain insignificant factors that twist the balance like die hard fans, "old" fans and such.

The ending made no sense, since they never had a disadvantage, if you want them to be disadvantaged you'll have to convince quite a "few" millions of buyers that'll buy their games like bread not to buy them, maybe when that happens it'll impact the implication, dedication on certain projects that people feel they can be better, but that won't happen.

[QUOTE="DanielDust"]EA has the same reputation as Valve if not better.Remmib

:lol::lol::lol:

Have you ever considered a profession in stand up comedy?

Yep, even my friends push me towards it ;).

Large and profitable, many people enjoy their games...that has everything to do with reputation and popularity- No it doesn't...it has everything to do with EA owning excellent games developers who produce excellent games.

-Huge amount of hate on gaming forums, again, is irrelevant and entirely subjective. The FACT is you are parading your own opinions around as facts. Reputation is intangible and unquantifiable. Moreover, reputation is something that is held beyond gaming forums and across multiple platforms.

How am I parading my opinions around as fact? I said from what I've observed EA receive a lot of hate on the forums. You disagree, you really think EA don't receive more hate than anyone else? fine, that's your opinion. I have no problem with you believing that should you so wish. Just as I have no problem with someone believing in a giant pink elephant in the sky who sends them magic juice in the morning.

-Your personal opinion and perceptions about EA simply is not universal truth no matter how much you want it to be. More importantly your negative perception is meaningless anyways, as EA has good enough reputation to do business and not only do well but they are one of the largest and most successful game companies out there. That's very much dependent on their reputation as a company and of course the games they develop/publish.

Again you address my "personal opinon of EA" or my "perception" of EA. I have no personal opinon and I have no personal perception of EA whatsoever and neither have I expressed one at any point. Please do tell me where I did that? You understand the difference between a personal opinion/perception of a company and what someone observes others opinion/perception of EA is don't you? I certainly hope so, because you seem to be very confused about it.

-EA may not be popular here and gamespot, or other gaming forums, but that's not the entire gaming universe. That's what YOU seem to be failing at understanding.

Like I said before, if you choose to believe EA don't receive the more hate than any other gaming company from gamers, that's your choice. Just as it is my choice to acknokowledge what I see everywhere. Hate for EA. Even Danieldust acknowledged this. Presumably you will want to tell him that it is only his opinion too in a quick message :)

-There's plenty of people on forums that think VERY negatively of Steam/Valve (as well and I can post PLENTY of examples)

At what point did I say anything different? Any company receives hate, my point was that EA receives far more than any other company, especially Valve. Valve in fact from my observation are well loved, in no small part because of Steam.

So what am I missing, I've gone through everything you've said and once again it amounts to the following

- You telling me what my opinion of EA is when I have expressed no such opinion - Irrelevant

- You telling me that EA are large and profitable and that is because their repuation is good - wrong, they are large and profitable because they own games developers who make good games. Remember the Hitler analogy?

- Your opinion is that EA do not receive a lot of hate on forums and/or not any more than Valve.

So what am I missing? Is there something else hidden away in there that I haven't read. None of what you say is relevant at all, except your own (and rather bizarre) opinion that EA doesn't receive hate on forums.

Yet again you fail to realize that EA makes most of its money from their own games (and like you also don't consider to be true, Maxis and DICE are as much EA as EA sports, especially Maxis). Anything developed by the core EA makes most of its money, studios like Bioware bring small contributions compared to that.

@Daniel, I won't quote your message as otherwise these messages are all going to get huge.

Again I have at no point said anything other than EA makes a lot of money, is large and successful and has a reputation for being exactly that. That has nothing to do with whether it is liked or not, many companies are large and successful and are not well liked. It is irrelevant provided they produce an excellent product and because EA have many good games developers that's exactly what they do and that's why they make a lot of money.

The situation we are discussing is different. We are talking about a platform for selling games, not games themselves. In that area Steam is the daddy and Valve who run Steam are far more widely liked and receive far less hate than EA do. That means when Origins goes head to head with Steam, EA are at a disadvantage, because if for instance the services are equal, gamers will go with the company who is better liked. In this instance that is Valve.

To suggest that EA doesn't receive more hate than Valve and is as well liked as Valve by gamers, is not really plausible in my eyes. Still if you choose to believe so, that's entirely up to you. I'm sure if Hitler came back, he would have followers who would assert that he was well loved too :)

Yet again you fail to realize that EA makes most of its money from their own games (and like you also don't consider to be true, Maxis and DICE are as much EA as EA sports, especially Maxis). Anything developed by the core EA makes most of its money, studios like Bioware bring small contributions compared to that.

DanielDust

What has anything I've said at any point have to do with money? or games sales? You keep telling me about EA's game sales and the money they make, what is your point? It has nothing to do wtih anything I've said.

It's like me saying, Valve are the most profitable company in the world per employee, which they are. Great...how has that got anything to do with whether they are liked or not? There are many large profitable companies who are disliked broadly but make money because their product is great.

We are talking about a platform for selling a product, not a product. Hence whether EA is liked or not in comparison to Valve, their rival, comes into play.

@rene -

"Right...so EA owns excellent game developers who produce excellent games under EA's name and that has nothing to do with their reputation? Sure it doesn't lol."

It has to do with their reputation for being a big games company who makes money, it has nothing to do with their reputation in regards to being liked or disliked at all. Again, you seem incapable of seperating or understanding the difference between;

- A reputation for making money

- A reputation for being liked/disliked (which is what I've said repeatedly)

""This is how...you flatly said this:

"Valve is simply a far more popular and reputable company in gaming than EA is with gamers.""

It's an opnion based on observation, just as I said. At what point did I say otherwise? Didn't I specifically say several times that's exactly what it was? You can have a different opinion, no one is stopping you. If you really believe that EA is liked as much as Valve, then good for you. I'm not going to spend my time looking through the hundreds of threads filled with EA hate, everywhere on every gaming forum I've ever seen. If you want to pretend they don't exist, go ahead. It's worth noting though, that even Daniel recognises they do.

"So is EA, just in different market segments...which is the freaking point. Gamespot =/= entire gaming community. "So what am I missing?""

When did I say gamespot represented the whole gaming community? That's right I didn't, again what you are saying doesn't relate to anything I've said. I can only assume you are alluding to even more irrelevant concepts because you have nothing else to come back with.

You have no argument and no points other than telling me EA has a reputation for being big and profitable, something I actually stipulated in this thread before you even posted towards me...and asserting in your own opinion that EA is no more or less liked than Valve and that all the hate that everyone else seems to be aware of that is present on any gaming forum anywhere apparently doesn't exist.

That's it, you aren't saying anything else. So what on earth is your point? That something I already said was an opinion based on observation is an "opnion"??...well seeing as I already said that, where is the relevance of anything you've said?

[QUOTE="xLittlekillx"]

Screw Origin and screw EA. Imagine if every publisher had its own client that you had to download to access their digital distribution catalog. That would suck so bad. Steam does it fine, and there's no reason for companies to start pulling their games and making their own clients. It defeats the purpose of convenience just for the sake of trying to make a few more bucks.

topsemag55

No, I didn't say that they're not allowed to do that. I said they're stupid, horrible bastards for inconveniencing gamers in some misguided assault on the digital distribution market. I would love to laugh in the face of the person at EA who originally suggested they could actually compete with Steam.

@rene -

"Right...so EA owns excellent game developers who produce excellent games under EA's name and that has nothing to do with their reputation? Sure it doesn't lol."

It has to do with their reputation for being a big games company who makes money, it has nothing to do with their reputation in regards to being liked or disliked at all. Again, you seem incapable of seperating or understanding the difference between;

- A reputation for making money

- A reputation for being liked/disliked (which is what I've said repeatedly)

""This is how...you flatly said this:

"Valve is simply a far more popular and reputable company in gaming than EA is with gamers.""

It's an opnion based on observation, just as I said. At what point did I say otherwise? Didn't I specifically say several times that's exactly what it was? You can have a different opinion, no one is stopping you. If you really believe that EA is liked as much as Valve, then good for you. I'm not going to spend my time looking through the hundreds of threads filled with EA hate, everywhere on every gaming forum I've ever seen. If you want to pretend they don't exist, go ahead. It's worth noting though, that even Daniel recognises they do.

"So is EA, just in different market segments...which is the freaking point. Gamespot =/= entire gaming community. "So what am I missing?""

When did I say gamespot represented the whole gaming community? That's right I didn't, again what you are saying doesn't relate to anything I've said. I can only assume you are alluding to even more irrelevant concepts because you have nothing else to come back with.

You have no argument and no points other than telling me EA has a reputation for being big and profitable, something I actually stipulated in this thread before you even posted towards me...and asserting in your own opinion that EA is no more or less liked than Valve and that all the hate that everyone else seems to be aware of that is present on any gaming forum anywhere apparently doesn't exist.

That's it, you aren't saying anything else. So what on earth is your point? That something I already said was an opinion based on observation is an "opnion"??...well seeing as I already said that, where is the relevance of anything you've said?

iamrob7

There are a lot of Steam users, so that's a pretty major problem. Not to mention that those users are probably a very large % of the people who would be getting DD games.

Aside from that, people generally dislike EA anyway, Steam users or not, they are just a very unpopular company. If SW: TOR is a big hit, then it might catapult Origins to the forefront. If it isn't then I think EA are going to have a hard time, multiplayer games are essentially the only way they will draw people to Origins. Bioware used to be an exalted name, but since EA took over even that has slipped a little.

iamrob7

holy **** this thread has de railed faster then a train. Your arguments should be in system wars or something like that, or a whole new thread in general. This was meant to clear up all issues on whether or not ea deleted your games after a set amount of time, not debating on whether or not the community likes them.

holy **** this thread has de railed faster then a train. Your arguments should be in system wars or something like that, or a whole new thread in general. This was meant to clear up all issues on whether or not ea deleted your games after a set amount of time, not debating on whether or not the community likes them.

deathshand707

[QUOTE="DanielDust"]

Yet again you fail to realize that EA makes most of its money from their own games (and like you also don't consider to be true, Maxis and DICE are as much EA as EA sports, especially Maxis). Anything developed by the core EA makes most of its money, studios like Bioware bring small contributions compared to that.

iamrob7

What has anything I've said at any point have to do with money? or games sales? You keep telling me about EA's game sales and the money they make, what is your point? It has nothing to do wtih anything I've said.

It's like me saying, Valve are the most profitable company in the world per employee, which they are. Great...how has that got anything to do with whether they are liked or not? There are many large profitable companies who are disliked broadly but make money because their product is great.

We are talking about a platform for selling a product, not a product. Hence whether EA is liked or not in comparison to Valve, their rival, comes into play.