Is Guild Wars 2 still a worthy investment?

[QUOTE="Maroxad"]

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

so basically a bunch of anecdotal "evidence" and the poor rentetion rate which needs a source

lostrib

I cant find a source directly stating the retention rate, but you can see it around the game. The sPvP mode practically dead, a lot of zones feel empty especially compared to how crowded it was at launch and you will rarely, if ever run into ques or overflows nowdays. That said, the population has now stabilized, but the retention rate was poor nonetheless. Most people who bought it did not stick with it. I heard someone say that around 12.5% of the 3 million that bought it stuck with it, I can not find the source for this myself, so while I suppose it is somewhere near that ammount, I dont think it is that low, if it really is that low, that would just be lol-worthy.

Whether you like it or not. While the game was well recieved by critics and gamers alike at launch, the cracks became more and more clear as time moved on combined with constant mismanagement from Arenanet disillusioned a large portion of players, me included. As a result, the game isnt really well recieved among gamers (especially mmo vets) nowdays.

So you pretty much have no sources to back up what you've said.  I just rolled a new alt and I run into all sorts of people, a lot of them high level players, in the starter area.  Running events and such; side note, GW2 community is probably the nicest I've seen.  And GW2 PVP arena is under consideration for MLG (http://www.pcgamesn.com/guildwars/guild-wars-2-could-be-coming-mlg)

They are theories based on observations. And when I see CONSIDERABLY more negativity towards GW2 than positivity across various communities, I would say that it is safe to say that the game has a poor public opinion.

I am not saying that the game is dead, I am saying that it is nowhere near as popular as it was at launch. The "dead" zones are the midlevel zones. The low level zones and the high level zones are still mostly alive (which at launch I had no problems running into other players whereas last time I gave the game a chance it really did feel like a single player game).

Edit: Of course they are reviewing and considering GW2 for an Esport now. There only was a large patch recently which actually made it worth considering as an esport. But reviewing it is not the same as gonna add it and chances are that it wont be added. In fact I would be really surprised if it did get in.

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

[QUOTE="Maroxad"]

I cant find a source directly stating the retention rate, but you can see it around the game. The sPvP mode practically dead, a lot of zones feel empty especially compared to how crowded it was at launch and you will rarely, if ever run into ques or overflows nowdays. That said, the population has now stabilized, but the retention rate was poor nonetheless. Most people who bought it did not stick with it. I heard someone say that around 12.5% of the 3 million that bought it stuck with it, I can not find the source for this myself, so while I suppose it is somewhere near that ammount, I dont think it is that low, if it really is that low, that would just be lol-worthy.

Whether you like it or not. While the game was well recieved by critics and gamers alike at launch, the cracks became more and more clear as time moved on combined with constant mismanagement from Arenanet disillusioned a large portion of players, me included. As a result, the game isnt really well recieved among gamers (especially mmo vets) nowdays.

Maroxad

So you pretty much have no sources to back up what you've said.  I just rolled a new alt and I run into all sorts of people, a lot of them high level players, in the starter area.  Running events and such; side note, GW2 community is probably the nicest I've seen.  And GW2 PVP arena is under consideration for MLG (http://www.pcgamesn.com/guildwars/guild-wars-2-could-be-coming-mlg)

They are theories based on observations. And when I see CONSIDERABLY more negativity towards GW2 than positivity across various communities, I would say that it is safe to say that the game has a poor public opinion.

I am not saying that the game is dead, I am saying that it is nowhere near as popular as it was at launch. The "dead" zones are the midlevel zones. The low level zones and the high level zones are still mostly alive (which at launch I had no problems running into other players whereas last time I gave the game a chance it really did feel like a single player game).

Edit: Of course they are reviewing and considering GW2 for an Esport now. There only was a large patch recently which actually made it worth considering as an esport. But reviewing it is not the same as gonna add it and chances are that it wont be added. In fact I would be really surprised if it did get in.

so all just opinion, speculation, anecdotes.  

[QUOTE="Maroxad"]

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

So you pretty much have no sources to back up what you've said.  I just rolled a new alt and I run into all sorts of people, a lot of them high level players, in the starter area.  Running events and such; side note, GW2 community is probably the nicest I've seen.  And GW2 PVP arena is under consideration for MLG (http://www.pcgamesn.com/guildwars/guild-wars-2-could-be-coming-mlg)

lostrib

They are theories based on observations. And when I see CONSIDERABLY more negativity towards GW2 than positivity across various communities, I would say that it is safe to say that the game has a poor public opinion.

I am not saying that the game is dead, I am saying that it is nowhere near as popular as it was at launch. The "dead" zones are the midlevel zones. The low level zones and the high level zones are still mostly alive (which at launch I had no problems running into other players whereas last time I gave the game a chance it really did feel like a single player game).

Edit: Of course they are reviewing and considering GW2 for an Esport now. There only was a large patch recently which actually made it worth considering as an esport. But reviewing it is not the same as gonna add it and chances are that it wont be added. In fact I would be really surprised if it did get in.

so all just opinion, speculation, anecdotes.  

I would still like to see some examples of WHY the public opinion of guild wars 2 is not poor. And no those GOTY Nominations dont count and that people's choice from IGN was from last year and opinions change. I have given you my theories and showed things to support them. But if you accept that, how about this? There was a sharp decline of GW2 activity according to services such as Xfire.

But hell, look at this board, and notice the general negative stigma GW2 has.

So you pretty much have no sources to back up what you've said.  I just rolled a new alt and I run into all sorts of people, a lot of them high level players, in the starter area.  Running events and such; side note, GW2 community is probably the nicest I've seen.  And GW2 PVP arena is under consideration for MLG (http://www.pcgamesn.com/guildwars/guild-wars-2-could-be-coming-mlg)

lostrib

Idk, I played through 2.5 entire zones the other day, and saw maybe a combined total of 5-8 people during my hours of play in these zones. The maps were loaded with events and I had to solo them completely to get them done. I went to the PvP lobby and saw....maybe 15ish people standing around. Also the fact that you said that you see a lot of high level players in the new area's certainly doesn't help your case as these are assuredly not new blood to the game.

I went to a main city and saw the auction house "moderately" packed, and that was it. This experience was the same across a 3-day span, even a weekend. I truly don't know how many people play this game from a numbers perspective, but my playtime is certainly pretty lonely.

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

[QUOTE="Maroxad"]

They are theories based on observations. And when I see CONSIDERABLY more negativity towards GW2 than positivity across various communities, I would say that it is safe to say that the game has a poor public opinion.

I am not saying that the game is dead, I am saying that it is nowhere near as popular as it was at launch. The "dead" zones are the midlevel zones. The low level zones and the high level zones are still mostly alive (which at launch I had no problems running into other players whereas last time I gave the game a chance it really did feel like a single player game).

Edit: Of course they are reviewing and considering GW2 for an Esport now. There only was a large patch recently which actually made it worth considering as an esport. But reviewing it is not the same as gonna add it and chances are that it wont be added. In fact I would be really surprised if it did get in.

Maroxad

so all just opinion, speculation, anecdotes.  

I would still like to see some examples of WHY the public opinion of guild wars 2 is not poor. And no those GOTY Nominations dont count and that people's choice from IGN was from last year and opinions change. I have given you my theories and showed things to support them. But if you accept that, how about this? There was a sharp decline of GW2 activity according to services such as Xfire.

But hell, look at this board, and notice the general negative stigma GW2 has.

you didn't provide any legitimate sources, or really any sources at all. Yes Just look at this board, which has had a GW2 sticky pretty much since launch

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

So you pretty much have no sources to back up what you've said.  I just rolled a new alt and I run into all sorts of people, a lot of them high level players, in the starter area.  Running events and such; side note, GW2 community is probably the nicest I've seen.  And GW2 PVP arena is under consideration for MLG (http://www.pcgamesn.com/guildwars/guild-wars-2-could-be-coming-mlg)

trijity

Idk, I played through 2.5 entire zones the other day, and saw maybe a combined total of 5-8 people during my hours of play in these zones. The maps were loaded with events and I had to solo them completely to get them done. I went to the PvP lobby and saw....maybe 15ish people standing around. Also the fact that you said that you see a lot of high level players in the new area's certainly doesn't help your case as these are assuredly not new blood to the game.

I went to a main city and saw the auction house "moderately" packed, and that was it. This experience was the same across a 3-day span, even a weekend. I truly don't know how many people play this game from a numbers perspective, but my playtime is certainly pretty lonely.

it honestly may depend on your server, and time of day. 

[QUOTE="Maroxad"]

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

so all just opinion, speculation, anecdotes.  

lostrib

I would still like to see some examples of WHY the public opinion of guild wars 2 is not poor. And no those GOTY Nominations dont count and that people's choice from IGN was from last year and opinions change. I have given you my theories and showed things to support them. But if you accept that, how about this? There was a sharp decline of GW2 activity according to services such as Xfire.

But hell, look at this board, and notice the general negative stigma GW2 has.

you didn't provide any legitimate sources, or really any sources at all. Yes Just look at this board, which has had a GW2 sticky pretty much since launch

Yes there is a sticky for you GW2 fans. But look at every other thread though, who are mainly composed of negative posts and comments towarsd the game.

Edit: There is a reason someone who I wont name has opted to stay away from non-stickied GW2 threads, and that is because he was tired of all the negativity and hate towards the game.

it honestly may depend on your server, and time of day. 

lostrib

You are obviously a fan of the game and can't look at the game objectively. Objectively the game only offers nice visuals and some boring platform sections to differentiate itself from other mmos. If GW2 is the best example of a modern MMO then count me out of the genre comepletely. I hate the game and loathe thinking about playing it at all.

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

it honestly may depend on your server, and time of day. 

Rawtheory333

You are obviously a fan of the game and can't look at the game objectively. Objectively the game only offers nice visuals and some boring platform sections to differentiate itself from other mmos. If GW2 is the best example of a modern MMO then count me out of the genre comepletely. I hate the game and loathe thinking about playing it at all.

yes obviously you are looking at it very objectively :roll:

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

it honestly may depend on your server, and time of day. 

Rawtheory333

You are obviously a fan of the game and can't look at the game objectively. Objectively the game only offers nice visuals and some boring platform sections to differentiate itself from other mmos. If GW2 is the best example of a modern MMO then count me out of the genre comepletely. I hate the game and loathe thinking about playing it at all.

you are a shining example of your own complaint in reverse

I say definitely at least join a guild and do some stuff with guildies to see if the game is more enjoyable. I think that was a problem for me with MMOs before GW2 where I just stick going solo, and it became pretty dull. I don't mind going in solo in GW2 through, but I think doing stuff with guildies and friends partly help keep me going with this game.

I say definitely at least join a guild and do some stuff with guildies to see if the game is more enjoyable. I think that was a problem for me with MMOs before GW2 where I just stick going solo, and it became pretty dull. I don't mind going in solo in GW2 through, but I think doing stuff with guildies and friends partly help keep me going with this game.

Wanderer5

This is why a lot of people get put off...they run solo and see they only activity as killing things.  You need a good active guild to be able to even get into the meat of the game

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

[QUOTE="Maroxad"]

I cant find a source directly stating the retention rate, but you can see it around the game. The sPvP mode practically dead, a lot of zones feel empty especially compared to how crowded it was at launch and you will rarely, if ever run into ques or overflows nowdays. That said, the population has now stabilized, but the retention rate was poor nonetheless. Most people who bought it did not stick with it. I heard someone say that around 12.5% of the 3 million that bought it stuck with it, I can not find the source for this myself, so while I suppose it is somewhere near that ammount, I dont think it is that low, if it really is that low, that would just be lol-worthy.

Whether you like it or not. While the game was well recieved by critics and gamers alike at launch, the cracks became more and more clear as time moved on combined with constant mismanagement from Arenanet disillusioned a large portion of players, me included. As a result, the game isnt really well recieved among gamers (especially mmo vets) nowdays.

Maroxad

So you pretty much have no sources to back up what you've said. I just rolled a new alt and I run into all sorts of people, a lot of them high level players, in the starter area. Running events and such; side note, GW2 community is probably the nicest I've seen. And GW2 PVP arena is under consideration for MLG (http://www.pcgamesn.com/guildwars/guild-wars-2-could-be-coming-mlg)

They are theories based on observations. And when I see CONSIDERABLY more negativity towards GW2 than positivity across various communities, I would say that it is safe to say that the game has a poor public opinion.

I am not saying that the game is dead, I am saying that it is nowhere near as popular as it was at launch. The "dead" zones are the midlevel zones. The low level zones and the high level zones are still mostly alive (which at launch I had no problems running into other players whereas last time I gave the game a chance it really did feel like a single player game).

Edit: Of course they are reviewing and considering GW2 for an Esport now. There only was a large patch recently which actually made it worth considering as an esport. But reviewing it is not the same as gonna add it and chances are that it wont be added. In fact I would be really surprised if it did get in.

[QUOTE="Maroxad"]

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

So you pretty much have no sources to back up what you've said. I just rolled a new alt and I run into all sorts of people, a lot of them high level players, in the starter area. Running events and such; side note, GW2 community is probably the nicest I've seen. And GW2 PVP arena is under consideration for MLG (http://www.pcgamesn.com/guildwars/guild-wars-2-could-be-coming-mlg)

Justforvisit

They are theories based on observations. And when I see CONSIDERABLY more negativity towards GW2 than positivity across various communities, I would say that it is safe to say that the game has a poor public opinion.

I am not saying that the game is dead, I am saying that it is nowhere near as popular as it was at launch. The "dead" zones are the midlevel zones. The low level zones and the high level zones are still mostly alive (which at launch I had no problems running into other players whereas last time I gave the game a chance it really did feel like a single player game).

Edit: Of course they are reviewing and considering GW2 for an Esport now. There only was a large patch recently which actually made it worth considering as an esport. But reviewing it is not the same as gonna add it and chances are that it wont be added. In fact I would be really surprised if it did get in.

Hmm... I have seen this arguement (read: excuse) a lot.

Age of Conan, Warhammer Online, SWTOR and a few other games whose names escape my mind.

[QUOTE="Justforvisit"]

[QUOTE="Maroxad"]

They are theories based on observations. And when I see CONSIDERABLY more negativity towards GW2 than positivity across various communities, I would say that it is safe to say that the game has a poor public opinion.

I am not saying that the game is dead, I am saying that it is nowhere near as popular as it was at launch. The "dead" zones are the midlevel zones. The low level zones and the high level zones are still mostly alive (which at launch I had no problems running into other players whereas last time I gave the game a chance it really did feel like a single player game).

Edit: Of course they are reviewing and considering GW2 for an Esport now. There only was a large patch recently which actually made it worth considering as an esport. But reviewing it is not the same as gonna add it and chances are that it wont be added. In fact I would be really surprised if it did get in.

Maroxad

Hmm... I have seen this arguement (read: excuse) a lot.

Age of Conan, Warhammer Online, SWTOR and a few other games whose names escape my mind.

And your point is...?

[QUOTE="Maroxad"]

[QUOTE="Justforvisit"]

Nah, it's just, people who have fun with this game are too busy having fun, playing and enjoying it and not giving a sh*t what is written in forums about it whilst those of you who hate it can't get it out of their heads and even IF they hate hate it they still care for it so much that they feel the urge to flood forums and create 4 pages and more long threads to complain about and state how bad it is in their eyes ^^

lostrib

Hmm... I have seen this arguement (read: excuse) a lot.

Age of Conan, Warhammer Online, SWTOR and a few other games whose names escape my mind.

And your point is...?

That it is a terrible excuse.

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

[QUOTE="Maroxad"]

Hmm... I have seen this arguement (read: excuse) a lot.

Age of Conan, Warhammer Online, SWTOR and a few other games whose names escape my mind.

Maroxad

And your point is...?

That it is a terrible excuse.

I have recently purchased the renowned Guild Wars 2 after being pushed by Angry Joe's 10/10 review and best game of 2012 title, however I just can't seem to get into it. I will have to say that probably my first problem is that I'm tackling the game solo. Would I be wrong to assume that GW2 is probably a 10/10 with friends but maybe more justly a 7/10 solo. At the moment I'm a level 10ish engineer and haven't played in weeks. It feels like the same hack and slash MMO that I always get sucked into with some unrealistic fantasy (perhaps spawning from the 'Make Love Not Warcraft' episode of South Park like many others) that in reality turns out to a go here and go there mundane chore. What do people think? Is it still awesome? Do I have to grind through the first levels? Or maybe try a new class? SirVladimir7

beautiful game to behold graphically but it's boring.buccomatic

We have a winner!

[QUOTE="Maroxad"]

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

So you pretty much have no sources to back up what you've said.  I just rolled a new alt and I run into all sorts of people, a lot of them high level players, in the starter area.  Running events and such; side note, GW2 community is probably the nicest I've seen.  And GW2 PVP arena is under consideration for MLG (http://www.pcgamesn.com/guildwars/guild-wars-2-could-be-coming-mlg)

lostrib

They are theories based on observations. And when I see CONSIDERABLY more negativity towards GW2 than positivity across various communities, I would say that it is safe to say that the game has a poor public opinion.

I am not saying that the game is dead, I am saying that it is nowhere near as popular as it was at launch. The "dead" zones are the midlevel zones. The low level zones and the high level zones are still mostly alive (which at launch I had no problems running into other players whereas last time I gave the game a chance it really did feel like a single player game).

Edit: Of course they are reviewing and considering GW2 for an Esport now. There only was a large patch recently which actually made it worth considering as an esport. But reviewing it is not the same as gonna add it and chances are that it wont be added. In fact I would be really surprised if it did get in.

so all just opinion, speculation, anecdotes.  

[QUOTE="trijity"]

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

So you pretty much have no sources to back up what you've said.  I just rolled a new alt and I run into all sorts of people, a lot of them high level players, in the starter area.  Running events and such; side note, GW2 community is probably the nicest I've seen.  And GW2 PVP arena is under consideration for MLG (http://www.pcgamesn.com/guildwars/guild-wars-2-could-be-coming-mlg)

lostrib

Idk, I played through 2.5 entire zones the other day, and saw maybe a combined total of 5-8 people during my hours of play in these zones. The maps were loaded with events and I had to solo them completely to get them done. I went to the PvP lobby and saw....maybe 15ish people standing around. Also the fact that you said that you see a lot of high level players in the new area's certainly doesn't help your case as these are assuredly not new blood to the game.

I went to a main city and saw the auction house "moderately" packed, and that was it. This experience was the same across a 3-day span, even a weekend. I truly don't know how many people play this game from a numbers perspective, but my playtime is certainly pretty lonely.

it honestly may depend on your server, and time of day. 

The "The public opinion seems negative because the fans are too busy playing the game" excuse is terrible indeed, because much like the fans, we skeptics are also busy playing games we like. We too only come to the forums to post when we are taking a short break from the games we like or whatever we are doing.

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

[QUOTE="trijity"]

Idk, I played through 2.5 entire zones the other day, and saw maybe a combined total of 5-8 people during my hours of play in these zones. The maps were loaded with events and I had to solo them completely to get them done. I went to the PvP lobby and saw....maybe 15ish people standing around. Also the fact that you said that you see a lot of high level players in the new area's certainly doesn't help your case as these are assuredly not new blood to the game.

I went to a main city and saw the auction house "moderately" packed, and that was it. This experience was the same across a 3-day span, even a weekend. I truly don't know how many people play this game from a numbers perspective, but my playtime is certainly pretty lonely.

MBirdy88

it honestly may depend on your server, and time of day. 

Indeed, to quote others. It is not the devs that make the game an esport, it is the community itself.

Sadly for GW2's case, it is not fun to watch, nor is it very competitive. And having a lot of RNG in their skills (seriously, whose iddea was it to give random buffs and debuffs to skills?), traits and even some items is not helping their case in making a competitive game. The additions to sPvP were too little, too late.

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

[QUOTE="trijity"]

Idk, I played through 2.5 entire zones the other day, and saw maybe a combined total of 5-8 people during my hours of play in these zones. The maps were loaded with events and I had to solo them completely to get them done. I went to the PvP lobby and saw....maybe 15ish people standing around. Also the fact that you said that you see a lot of high level players in the new area's certainly doesn't help your case as these are assuredly not new blood to the game.

I went to a main city and saw the auction house "moderately" packed, and that was it. This experience was the same across a 3-day span, even a weekend. I truly don't know how many people play this game from a numbers perspective, but my playtime is certainly pretty lonely.

MBirdy88

it honestly may depend on your server, and time of day. 

Even though there have been a number of "e-sport" style PvP tournaments: http://www.guildwars2guru.com/news/1134-guild-wars-2-gurus-masters-of-the-mists-tournament-sponsored-by-curse-inc/

http://www.mmorpg.com/newsroom.cfm/read/27595/Announcing-the-MMORPGcom-GW2-Invitational-Tournament.html

https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/pvp/pvp/Team-Paradigm-Invitational-Announcement

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

[QUOTE="Maroxad"]

They are theories based on observations. And when I see CONSIDERABLY more negativity towards GW2 than positivity across various communities, I would say that it is safe to say that the game has a poor public opinion.

I am not saying that the game is dead, I am saying that it is nowhere near as popular as it was at launch. The "dead" zones are the midlevel zones. The low level zones and the high level zones are still mostly alive (which at launch I had no problems running into other players whereas last time I gave the game a chance it really did feel like a single player game).

Edit: Of course they are reviewing and considering GW2 for an Esport now. There only was a large patch recently which actually made it worth considering as an esport. But reviewing it is not the same as gonna add it and chances are that it wont be added. In fact I would be really surprised if it did get in.

MBirdy88

so all just opinion, speculation, anecdotes.  

Then what is the point of the argument.  If we want to use the "community" or the public, then it has an average player score of 8.9 on GS, 8.0 on metacritic, 8.7 on IGN

[QUOTE="MBirdy88"][QUOTE="lostrib"]

so all just opinion, speculation, anecdotes.  

lostrib

Then what is the point of the argument.  If we want to use the "community" or the public, then it has an average player score of 8.9 on GS, 8.0 on metacritic, 8.7 on IGN

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

[QUOTE="MBirdy88"] Abit like reviewers that didnt play the game to 80 or any real length of time AMIRITE?Ravenshout

Then what is the point of the argument.  If we want to use the "community" or the public, then it has an average player score of 8.9 on GS, 8.0 on metacritic, 8.7 on IGN

So evidence of positive public opinion is not credible, but anecdotal evidence of negative opinion on random game forums is a credible source?

[QUOTE="Ravenshout"]

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

Then what is the point of the argument.  If we want to use the "community" or the public, then it has an average player score of 8.9 on GS, 8.0 on metacritic, 8.7 on IGN

lostrib

So evidence of positive public opinion is not credible, but anecdotal evidence of negative opinion on random game forums is a credible source?

[QUOTE="MBirdy88"][QUOTE="lostrib"]

so all just opinion, speculation, anecdotes.  

lostrib

Then what is the point of the argument.  If we want to use the "community" or the public, then it has an average player score of 8.9 on GS, 8.0 on metacritic, 8.7 on IGN

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

[QUOTE="MBirdy88"] Abit like reviewers that didnt play the game to 80 or any real length of time AMIRITE?MBirdy88

Then what is the point of the argument.  If we want to use the "community" or the public, then it has an average player score of 8.9 on GS, 8.0 on metacritic, 8.7 on IGN

just stating that it is the case for A LOT of people does not make it true, nor is A LOT an actual number.

[QUOTE="Ravenshout"]

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

Then what is the point of the argument.  If we want to use the "community" or the public, then it has an average player score of 8.9 on GS, 8.0 on metacritic, 8.7 on IGN

lostrib

So evidence of positive public opinion is not credible, but anecdotal evidence of negative opinion on random game forums is a credible source?

You do realize that most people's opinions can change AFTER they rated a game too, my experience has taught me that scores (user and critic alike are heavily affected by first impressions). Looking at other games that are generally regarded as crap have user scores that are 8.0 or above. They will change slightly as time moves on, true, but the initial impressions are more or less what defines the user scores. But regardless, I am sure there is a reason Guild Wars 2 was nominated for Blunder of the Year on what is one of the (if not the) biggest gaming discussion communities out there, and won biggest disappointment of 2012 polls on this forum and elsewhere too. As well as "winning" other negative polls. 

I am basing my theory that the game has poor public opinion on the fact that I see almost nothing but negativity towards the game, no matter where I go. Yes, the game still has fans, and yes, the game is more well recievedd than the likes of Age of Conan and WHO. But it doesnt change the fact that the game is being met with a LOT of negativity.

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

[QUOTE="Ravenshout"] WoW is more critically acclaimed (the most critically acclaimed MMO), but still many people hate it. Most of the positive scores, regardless if they were from the public or the critics, were given when the game just came out. Hence they do not evince thorough critical assessment of the game. 

Maroxad

So evidence of positive public opinion is not credible, but anecdotal evidence of negative opinion on random game forums is a credible source?

You do realize that most people's opinions can change AFTER they rated a game too, my experience has taught me that scores (user and critic alike are heavily affected by first impressions). Looking at other games that are generally regarded as crap have user scores that are 8.0 or above. They will change slightly as time moves on, true, but the initial impressions are more or less what defines the user scores. But regardless, I am sure there is a reason Guild Wars 2 was nominated for Blunder of the Year on what is one of the (if not the) biggest gaming discussion communities out there, and won biggest disappointment of 2012 polls on this forum and elsewhere too. As well as "winning" other negative polls. 

I am basing my theory that the game has poor public opinion on the fact that I see almost nothing but negativity towards the game, no matter where I go. Yes, the game still has fans, and yes, the game is more well recievedd than the likes of Age of Conan and WHO. But it doesnt change the fact that the game is being met with a LOT of negativity.

A LOT, once again. Changes in opinion are not quantifiable unless the person decides to change their ratings.  You are just arguing things you speculate, nothing that is really quantifiable or that you have provided evidence for

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

[QUOTE="MBirdy88"] Abit like reviewers that didnt play the game to 80 or any real length of time AMIRITE?MBirdy88

Then what is the point of the argument.  If we want to use the "community" or the public, then it has an average player score of 8.9 on GS, 8.0 on metacritic, 8.7 on IGN

[QUOTE="Maroxad"]

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

So evidence of positive public opinion is not credible, but anecdotal evidence of negative opinion on random game forums is a credible source?

lostrib

You do realize that most people's opinions can change AFTER they rated a game too, my experience has taught me that scores (user and critic alike are heavily affected by first impressions). Looking at other games that are generally regarded as crap have user scores that are 8.0 or above. They will change slightly as time moves on, true, but the initial impressions are more or less what defines the user scores. But regardless, I am sure there is a reason Guild Wars 2 was nominated for Blunder of the Year on what is one of the (if not the) biggest gaming discussion communities out there, and won biggest disappointment of 2012 polls on this forum and elsewhere too. As well as "winning" other negative polls. 

I am basing my theory that the game has poor public opinion on the fact that I see almost nothing but negativity towards the game, no matter where I go. Yes, the game still has fans, and yes, the game is more well recievedd than the likes of Age of Conan and WHO. But it doesnt change the fact that the game is being met with a LOT of negativity.

A LOT, once again. Changes in opinion are not quantifiable unless the person decides to change their ratings.  You are just arguing things you speculate, nothing that is really quantifiable or that you have provided evidence for

This really is going nowhere. You havent disproven anything I have said, and it is clear I wont change your mind. But how about this, go around, and see what people say about GW2, chances are, they will not be very positive.

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

[QUOTE="Maroxad"]

You do realize that most people's opinions can change AFTER they rated a game too, my experience has taught me that scores (user and critic alike are heavily affected by first impressions). Looking at other games that are generally regarded as crap have user scores that are 8.0 or above. They will change slightly as time moves on, true, but the initial impressions are more or less what defines the user scores. But regardless, I am sure there is a reason Guild Wars 2 was nominated for Blunder of the Year on what is one of the (if not the) biggest gaming discussion communities out there, and won biggest disappointment of 2012 polls on this forum and elsewhere too. As well as "winning" other negative polls. 

I am basing my theory that the game has poor public opinion on the fact that I see almost nothing but negativity towards the game, no matter where I go. Yes, the game still has fans, and yes, the game is more well recievedd than the likes of Age of Conan and WHO. But it doesnt change the fact that the game is being met with a LOT of negativity.

Maroxad

A LOT, once again. Changes in opinion are not quantifiable unless the person decides to change their ratings.  You are just arguing things you speculate, nothing that is really quantifiable or that you have provided evidence for

This really is going nowhere. You havent disproven anything I have said, and it is clear I wont change your mind. But how about this, go around, and see what people say about GW2, chances are, they will not be very positive.

Actually i showed evidence that there was quite a bit of evidence of a positive public opinion between people's choice awards and average user scores across multiple sites.

[QUOTE="Maroxad"]

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

A LOT, once again. Changes in opinion are not quantifiable unless the person decides to change their ratings.  You are just arguing things you speculate, nothing that is really quantifiable or that you have provided evidence for

lostrib

This really is going nowhere. You havent disproven anything I have said, and it is clear I wont change your mind. But how about this, go around, and see what people say about GW2, chances are, they will not be very positive.

Actually i showed evidence that there was quite a bit of evidence of a positive public opinion between people's choice awards and average user scores across multiple sites.

Again, those are mainly first impressions. the user scores that is. As for the people's choice, I recall you seeing IGN, and I counter that with Blunder of the Year and Gamebryoken Award from the /v/GAs (take that how you will). My point of how the game is being criticized far more frequently than it is being praised is still not debunked.

Guild Wars 2 may have left a lot of players with a good first impression. But once people realized how shallow it was the game started recieving a lot of hate. Kind of like Oblivion.

[QUOTE="MBirdy88"][QUOTE="lostrib"]

Then what is the point of the argument.  If we want to use the "community" or the public, then it has an average player score of 8.9 on GS, 8.0 on metacritic, 8.7 on IGN

Ravenshout

[QUOTE="Maroxad"]

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

So evidence of positive public opinion is not credible, but anecdotal evidence of negative opinion on random game forums is a credible source?

lostrib

You do realize that most people's opinions can change AFTER they rated a game too, my experience has taught me that scores (user and critic alike are heavily affected by first impressions). Looking at other games that are generally regarded as crap have user scores that are 8.0 or above. They will change slightly as time moves on, true, but the initial impressions are more or less what defines the user scores. But regardless, I am sure there is a reason Guild Wars 2 was nominated for Blunder of the Year on what is one of the (if not the) biggest gaming discussion communities out there, and won biggest disappointment of 2012 polls on this forum and elsewhere too. As well as "winning" other negative polls. 

I am basing my theory that the game has poor public opinion on the fact that I see almost nothing but negativity towards the game, no matter where I go. Yes, the game still has fans, and yes, the game is more well recievedd than the likes of Age of Conan and WHO. But it doesnt change the fact that the game is being met with a LOT of negativity.

A LOT, once again. Changes in opinion are not quantifiable unless the person decides to change their ratings.  You are just arguing things you speculate, nothing that is really quantifiable or that you have provided evidence for

Metacritic doesn't allow critic reviewers to change their ratings. I'm sure they would if given the chance if it was done in a fair way. It's one thing you played a single-player game, but this is an MMO. MMO's update all the time, even in a very short period of time. There's no way to tell how great an MMO is until you've played it extensively.

There are many MMOs that failed within the first 6-8 months.  Some fall flat within the first year.  

Opinions can definitely change after a period of time. It's just that no one bothers going back to change their user rating. But ask some Guild Wars 2 players and they will probably tell you that the game was all sparkles and rainbows at the beginning. Not so much now, and MMO's are all about longevity.. not a quick-cash-grab unless the developer had no faith in their product.

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

[QUOTE="Maroxad"]

You do realize that most people's opinions can change AFTER they rated a game too, my experience has taught me that scores (user and critic alike are heavily affected by first impressions). Looking at other games that are generally regarded as crap have user scores that are 8.0 or above. They will change slightly as time moves on, true, but the initial impressions are more or less what defines the user scores. But regardless, I am sure there is a reason Guild Wars 2 was nominated for Blunder of the Year on what is one of the (if not the) biggest gaming discussion communities out there, and won biggest disappointment of 2012 polls on this forum and elsewhere too. As well as "winning" other negative polls. 

I am basing my theory that the game has poor public opinion on the fact that I see almost nothing but negativity towards the game, no matter where I go. Yes, the game still has fans, and yes, the game is more well recievedd than the likes of Age of Conan and WHO. But it doesnt change the fact that the game is being met with a LOT of negativity.

Elann2008

A LOT, once again. Changes in opinion are not quantifiable unless the person decides to change their ratings.  You are just arguing things you speculate, nothing that is really quantifiable or that you have provided evidence for

Metacritic doesn't allow critic reviewers to change their ratings. I'm sure they would if given the chance if it was done in a fair way. It's one thing you played a single-player game, but this is an MMO. MMO's update all the time, even in a very short period of time. There's no way to tell how great an MMO is until you've played it extensively.

There are many MMOs that failed within the first 6-8 months.  Some fall flat within the first year.  

Opinions can definitely change after a period of time. It's just that no one bothers going back to change their user rating. But ask some Guild Wars 2 players and they will probably tell you that the game was all sparkles and rainbows at the beginning. Not so much now, and MMO's are all about longevity.. not a quick-cash-grab unless the developer had no faith in their product.

okay, that's wonderful to claim.  But it's meaningless without proof

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

[QUOTE="Maroxad"]

This really is going nowhere. You havent disproven anything I have said, and it is clear I wont change your mind. But how about this, go around, and see what people say about GW2, chances are, they will not be very positive.

Maroxad

Actually i showed evidence that there was quite a bit of evidence of a positive public opinion between people's choice awards and average user scores across multiple sites.

Again, those are mainly first impressions. the user scores that is. As for the people's choice, I recall you seeing IGN, and I counter that with Blunder of the Year and Gamebryoken Award from the /v/GAs (take that how you will). My point of how the game is being criticized far more frequently than it is being praised is still not debunked.

Guild Wars 2 may have left a lot of players with a good first impression. But once people realized how shallow it was the game started recieving a lot of hate. Kind of like Oblivion.

your point that the game was being more frequently criticized was never proven. Just speculated on

What I disliked about the game is that the combat got boring.

You only get a few select skills and you use the same ones for most of the game.

There also is not much of a reliance on class which takes away a lot of the strategy.

I like MMOs where each class has a role and each individual must do well at it for a party to succeed.

One with a healer, tank, dps, puller etc. etc.

I also dislike how GW2 nerfs your character depending on what zone it is in which makes the leveling feel worthless to me.

There just isn't a sense of progression for me because of that.

Heck I enjoyed cheaply made F2P games more.....ones like 12sky and RAN Online because they didn't dumb down the combat.

What I disliked about the game is that the combat got boring.

You only get a few select skills and you use the same ones for most of the game.

There also is not much of a reliance on class which takes away a lot of the strategy.

I like MMOs where each class has a role and each individual must do well at it for a party to succeed.

One with a healer, tank, dps, puller etc. etc.

I also dislike how GW2 nerfs your character depending on what zone it is in which makes the leveling feel worthless to me.

There just isn't a sense of progression for me because of that.

Heck I enjoyed cheaply made F2P games more.....ones like 12sky and RAN Online because they didn't dumb down the combat.

RyviusARC

If I were to summarize GW2 to a friend I would say,

Guild Wars 2 is a lame, half-baked poorly thought out computer game with excessively flashy effects, culling issues (used to have them anyway), little variety in gameplay, it has literally no customization in UI, no abundance in original soundtrack with a good portion being ported from GW1, no sense of community, no interesting builds, MAN and when something gets discovered it gets nerfed to the ground... plus the game punishes you for playing it.

[QUOTE="RyviusARC"]

What I disliked about the game is that the combat got boring.

You only get a few select skills and you use the same ones for most of the game.

There also is not much of a reliance on class which takes away a lot of the strategy.

I like MMOs where each class has a role and each individual must do well at it for a party to succeed.

One with a healer, tank, dps, puller etc. etc.

I also dislike how GW2 nerfs your character depending on what zone it is in which makes the leveling feel worthless to me.

There just isn't a sense of progression for me because of that.

Heck I enjoyed cheaply made F2P games more.....ones like 12sky and RAN Online because they didn't dumb down the combat.

MBirdy88

There is nothing wrong with removing the holy trinity. As a matter of fact, it really is for the best to remove that thing entirely, or at least heavily revise it. Problem with Guild Wars 2 is that they had nothing worthwhile to replace it with.

Role systems are good, but the holy trinity is a terrible implementation/dumbing down of it and only really made sense for MUDs (which it came from and was designed around).

your point that the game was being more frequently criticized was never proven. Just speculated on

lostrib

Man, just LOL at this dude. The game you like is absolute crap. Almost everyone here knows it.  Your white knighting can't change the horrible rep this game has among people that want actual FUN and CHALLENGE in their game. You can't prove this game has improved in any meaningful way since its release and you can't prove its not bleeding players. All the relevant online indicators ie PLAYERS SPEAKING ABOUT THE GAME expose you as a fanboy whos opinion is irrelevant.

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

your point that the game was being more frequently criticized was never proven. Just speculated on

Rawtheory333

Man, just LOL at this dude. The game you like is absolute crap. Almost everyone here knows it.  Your white knighting can't change the horrible rep this game has among people that want actual FUN and CHALLENGE in their game. You can't prove this game has improved in any meaningful way since its release and you can't prove its not bleeding players. All the relevant online indicators ie PLAYERS SPEAKING ABOUT THE GAME expose you as a fanboy whos opinion is irrelevant.

Wow. someone got a little heated.

So even though it got multiple great reviews and awards, it's crap? but I guess those are just opinions of internet journalists. So lets go to the "public" and see all the good average user scores across multiples sites.  But I guess your anectdotal evidence are the only thing that counts as "relevant online indicators."  

If I were to summarize GW2 to a friend I would say,

Guild Wars 2 is a lame, half-baked poorly thought out computer game with excessively flashy effects, culling issues (used to have them anyway), little variety in gameplay, it has literally no customization in UI, no abundance in original soundtrack with a good portion being ported from GW1, no sense of community, no interesting builds, MAN and when something gets discovered it gets nerfed to the ground... plus the game punishes you for playing it.

[QUOTE="MBirdy88"][QUOTE="RyviusARC"]

What I disliked about the game is that the combat got boring.

You only get a few select skills and you use the same ones for most of the game.

There also is not much of a reliance on class which takes away a lot of the strategy.

I like MMOs where each class has a role and each individual must do well at it for a party to succeed.

One with a healer, tank, dps, puller etc. etc.

I also dislike how GW2 nerfs your character depending on what zone it is in which makes the leveling feel worthless to me.

There just isn't a sense of progression for me because of that.

Heck I enjoyed cheaply made F2P games more.....ones like 12sky and RAN Online because they didn't dumb down the combat.

Maroxad

There is nothing wrong with removing the holy trinity. As a matter of fact, it really is for the best to remove that thing entirely, or at least heavily revise it. Problem with Guild Wars 2 is that they had nothing worthwhile to replace it with.

Role systems are good, but the holy trinity is a terrible implementation/dumbing down of it and only really made sense for MUDs (which it came from and was designed around).

I like having specific builds though.

Having one for tanking, healing, dps. pulling etc. etc.

I like it because it makes it so you must rely on someone else and they must rely on you if you want to do well.

If everyone could do all of those at once then it defeats that purpose.

I like that reliance becuase everyone has to put effort in or the party won't do well.

If the healer stops healing then the tank will die and if the tank dies then everyone does.

If the dps doesn't do his best to kill stuff then the tank might not be able to aggro as many enemies and it will take too long to complete a mission or the exp rate will be low.

If the tank doesn't aggro the enemies well then other people will die and it will also slow down progression.

With this system if someone tries screwing someone else over they usually get a backlash as well.

I like having specific builds though.

Having one for tanking, healing, dps. pulling etc. etc.

I like it because it makes it so you must rely on someone else and they must rely on you if you want to do well.

If everyone could do all of those at once then it defeats that purpose.

I like that reliance becuase everyone has to put effort in or the party won't do well.

If the healer stops healing then the tank will die and if the tank dies then everyone does.

If the dps doesn't do his best to kill stuff then the tank might not be able to aggro as many enemies and it will take too long to complete a mission or the exp rate will be low.

If the tank doesn't aggro the enemies well then other people will die and it will also slow down progression.

With this system if someone tries screwing someone else over they usually get a backlash as well.

RyviusARC

That is why I said role systems are good.

The Holy Trinity is composed of the Tank, Healer and Damage dealer (traditionally Tank, Healer and Crowd Controller).

A non-trinity role system can be a lot less limited and can encompass more than 3 major roles. Tanks, Pullers, Buffers, Debuffers, Damage Dealers, Crowd Controllers, Resource Managers, Healers and so on.

 

Wow. someone got a little heated.

So even though it got multiple great reviews and awards, it's crap? but I guess those are just opinions of internet journalists. So lets go to the "public" and see all the good average user scores across multiples sites.  But I guess your anectdotal evidence are the only thing that counts as "relevant online indicators."  

lostrib

I don't mean to pick on you but I am still pissed that I bought into the hype of this game and paid full price for it. I don't want anyone else to waste their money like I did. The only other purchase I regret more is AvP 2010.

[QUOTE="Rawtheory333"]

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

your point that the game was being more frequently criticized was never proven. Just speculated on

lostrib

Man, just LOL at this dude. The game you like is absolute crap. Almost everyone here knows it.  Your white knighting can't change the horrible rep this game has among people that want actual FUN and CHALLENGE in their game. You can't prove this game has improved in any meaningful way since its release and you can't prove its not bleeding players. All the relevant online indicators ie PLAYERS SPEAKING ABOUT THE GAME expose you as a fanboy whos opinion is irrelevant.

Wow. someone got a little heated.

So even though it got multiple great reviews and awards, it's crap? but I guess those are just opinions of internet journalists. So lets go to the "public" and see all the good average user scores across multiples sites.  But I guess your anectdotal evidence are the only thing that counts as "relevant online indicators."