Is Morrowind REALLY better than Oblivion?

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Belwar555

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#1 Belwar555
Member since 2006 • 291 Posts
After the announcement of Skyrim, it made me remember oblivion - and how I loved that game. However, it also made me take interest in Morrowind. I never played that game, but considering how I loved the sequel and how graphics are not very important to me, I want to try it out. However, I also noticed that in any article that mentioned oblivion, the comments are filled with people hating Oblivion and saying how amazing and better Morrowind was. I was surprised by this, since the general reviews seem to favour oblivion, and Oblivion itself seems like a hard game to top. However, the reasons given don't seem to be very valid. Most of it seem to be more nostalgic - people miss the levitation and spears, the crazy looking world, the Dwemer ruins. I purchased Morrowind and have tried out about an hour so far, and my reactions are poor to say the least. The combat is catastrophically bad (like, one of the worst I have seen), the traveling is slow and uneventful, and feels more like filler, the UI is very hard to manage - and that is just the first hour of play. The love for Morrowind seems like something I have with the first Fable - I played it at a time when I was much more naive and despite it's many flaws, I always enjoy that game. I love a good, deep and immersive RPG, but since my time is currently limited, and these types of games take a while to get interesting, I am wary to dedicate myself to Morrowind. Can anyone give me their fair, unbiased judgement, preferably someone who didn't grow attached too much to either.
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SkyWard20

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#2 SkyWard20
Member since 2009 • 4509 Posts

I couldn't get into it, at least not yet. The combat is VERY bad by modern standarts.

I loved Oblivion too, though. I'm not ready to give in to the masses of Morrowind fans that scream how it was far superior to Oblivion just yet, because well, I haven't seen it.

The only argument I got so far ( from here ) about why Morrowind is better was that 'the environments were a lot more diverse', which, for a game that looks like mud by modern standarts, doesn't exactly sound very convincing.

And yes, the traveling IS slow.

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Macutchi

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#3 Macutchi
Member since 2007 • 11217 Posts

in its day it was a superb rpg and much more of an rpg than then action/adventure type oblivion. i can see how it would be quite inaccessible in 2011 to new players though

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SkyWard20

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#4 SkyWard20
Member since 2009 • 4509 Posts

in its day it was a superb rpg and much more of an rpg than then action/adventure type oblivion. i can see how it would be quite inaccessible in 2011 to new players though

Macutchi
How was it much more of an RPG?
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Birdy09

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#5 Birdy09
Member since 2009 • 4775 Posts

I couldn't get into it, at least not yet. The combat is VERY bad by modern standarts.

I loved Oblivion too, though. I'm not ready to give in to the masses of Morrowind fans that scream how it was far superior to Oblivion just yet, because well, I haven't seen it.

The only argument I got so far ( from here ) about why Morrowind is better was that 'the environments were a lot more diverse', which, for a game that looks like mud by modern standarts, doesn't exactly sound very convincing.

And yes, the traveling IS slow.

SkyWard20
What? Morrowind looked great for its time, its unfair to degrade the fact that morrowinds content was overall superior to Oblivion because it came out years before....
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menes777

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#6 menes777
Member since 2003 • 2643 Posts

I couldn't get into it, at least not yet. The combat is VERY bad by modern standarts.

I loved Oblivion too, though. I'm not ready to give in to the masses of Morrowind fans that scream how it was far superior to Oblivion just yet, because well, I haven't seen it.

SkyWard20

The combat was based of your skill rather with the weapon rather than your skill with the mouse. Which if you are a fan of FPS's it seemed like you were constantly missing with blows that should have been landing. One camp said that the combat was improved, another camp said it was noobification for the FPS console kiddies that wanted instant gratification. There is alot of nostalgia surrounding Morrowind, but there are some valid points too. Oblivion was the first in it's series to be heavily consolized and as a result suffered the wrath. Sort of like how people say COD4 is so much better than MW2.

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Brendissimo35

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#7 Brendissimo35
Member since 2005 • 1934 Posts

It's less accessible for the twitchy modern RPG gamer... but It's a much, much deeper game. Overall, the depth, the freedom, and the unique care put into the world matters much more.

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SkyWard20

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#8 SkyWard20
Member since 2009 • 4509 Posts
[QUOTE="SkyWard20"]

I couldn't get into it, at least not yet. The combat is VERY bad by modern standarts.

I loved Oblivion too, though. I'm not ready to give in to the masses of Morrowind fans that scream how it was far superior to Oblivion just yet, because well, I haven't seen it.

The only argument I got so far ( from here ) about why Morrowind is better was that 'the environments were a lot more diverse', which, for a game that looks like mud by modern standarts, doesn't exactly sound very convincing.

And yes, the traveling IS slow.

Birdy09
What? Morrowind looked great for its time, its unfair to degrade the fact that morrowinds content was overall superior to Oblivion because it came out years before....

Great, but don't compare its graphics to Oblivion then. Why should I care if the game had good graphics and has more diverse environments if it looks like mud compared to Oblivion? How exactly will that bring me to like Morrowind better than Oblivion?
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Tauruslink

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#9 Tauruslink
Member since 2005 • 6586 Posts
I remember playing Morrowind many years ago and I could never get into it. The combat felt very stiff, traveling anywhere took ages, and I always had this sense of being lost. Maybe it was just me though.
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SkyWard20

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#10 SkyWard20
Member since 2009 • 4509 Posts

[QUOTE="SkyWard20"]

I couldn't get into it, at least not yet. The combat is VERY bad by modern standarts.

I loved Oblivion too, though. I'm not ready to give in to the masses of Morrowind fans that scream how it was far superior to Oblivion just yet, because well, I haven't seen it.

menes777

The combat was based of your skill rather with the weapon rather than your skill with the mouse. Which if you are a fan of FPS's it seemed like you were constantly missing with blows that should have been landing. One camp said that the combat was improved, another camp said it was noobification for the FPS console kiddies that wanted instant gratification. There is alot of nostalgia surrounding Morrowind, but there are some valid points too. Oblivion was the first in it's series to be heavily consolized and as a result suffered the wrath. Sort of like how people say COD4 is so much better than MW2.

DIce rolls and first-person view don't sound too good by modern standards.

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Belwar555

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#11 Belwar555
Member since 2006 • 291 Posts

It's less accessible for the twitchy modern RPG gamer... but It's a much, much deeper game. Overall, the depth, the freedom, and the unique care put into the world matters much more.

Brendissimo35
How is it deeper? Sure, you had more skills, but I don't see the difference between spears and axes - with the combat like Morrowind, the only difference is the model in your hand (unlike, say , mount&blade). quantity doesn't always equal quality or depth.
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menes777

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#12 menes777
Member since 2003 • 2643 Posts

[QUOTE="Birdy09"][QUOTE="SkyWard20"]

I couldn't get into it, at least not yet. The combat is VERY bad by modern standarts.

I loved Oblivion too, though. I'm not ready to give in to the masses of Morrowind fans that scream how it was far superior to Oblivion just yet, because well, I haven't seen it.

The only argument I got so far ( from here ) about why Morrowind is better was that 'the environments were a lot more diverse', which, for a game that looks like mud by modern standarts, doesn't exactly sound very convincing.

And yes, the traveling IS slow.

SkyWard20

What? Morrowind looked great for its time, its unfair to degrade the fact that morrowinds content was overall superior to Oblivion because it came out years before....

Great, but don't compare its graphics to Oblivion then. Why should I care if the game had good graphics and has more diverse environments if it looks like mud compared to Oblivion? How exactly will that bring me to like Morrowind better than Oblivion?

Because no one is saying the graphics look better than Oblivion. They are saying the gameplay is better than Oblivion.

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XaosII

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#13 XaosII
Member since 2003 • 16705 Posts

Everything that made Oblivion good were improvements that were flaws in Morrowind (combat, quest difficulty, traveling, UI, voice acting, enemy variety, and a few others). Everything that made Morrowind good was not present in Oblivion (unique non-medieval setting, great story, rewarding exploration, very few copy-pasted environments, a focus on lore, greater freedom, and a few other things)

I like both games. I just wished they had improved Morrowind...Not create TES: The Action Game.

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Elann2008

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#14 Elann2008
Member since 2007 • 33028 Posts
Simple answer: Yes.
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Birdy09

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#15 Birdy09
Member since 2009 • 4775 Posts
[QUOTE="Birdy09"][QUOTE="SkyWard20"]

I couldn't get into it, at least not yet. The combat is VERY bad by modern standarts.

I loved Oblivion too, though. I'm not ready to give in to the masses of Morrowind fans that scream how it was far superior to Oblivion just yet, because well, I haven't seen it.

The only argument I got so far ( from here ) about why Morrowind is better was that 'the environments were a lot more diverse', which, for a game that looks like mud by modern standarts, doesn't exactly sound very convincing.

And yes, the traveling IS slow.

SkyWard20
What? Morrowind looked great for its time, its unfair to degrade the fact that morrowinds content was overall superior to Oblivion because it came out years before....

Great, but don't compare its graphics to Oblivion then. Why should I care if the game had good graphics and has more diverse environments if it looks like mud compared to Oblivion? How exactly will that bring me to like Morrowind better than Oblivion?

If you value a game because of its graphics over anything else then well... I dont know thats your choice. what good are those graphics when 90% of the landscape is copy pasted from the same 4-5 templates? thats what oblivion was, morrowind wasnt. The whole reason fans get so annoyed at oblivion is... that all the effort went into the graphics, alot of the "super dooper A.I" never made it to release, they made many poor design choices like scaled leveling, less overall content, less skills ect. They are annoyed because Oblivion didnt maintain the same level of variety and as a result despite some improvments like graphics, they went a step backwards in everything else. Mods fix this, to SOME extent, but it says alot when Vanilla Oblivion is worse than its predocessor.
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SkyWard20

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#16 SkyWard20
Member since 2009 • 4509 Posts

[QUOTE="SkyWard20"][QUOTE="Birdy09"] What? Morrowind looked great for its time, its unfair to degrade the fact that morrowinds content was overall superior to Oblivion because it came out years before....menes777

Great, but don't compare its graphics to Oblivion then. Why should I care if the game had good graphics and has more diverse environments if it looks like mud compared to Oblivion? How exactly will that bring me to like Morrowind better than Oblivion?

Because no one is saying the graphics look better than Oblivion. They are saying the gameplay is better than Oblivion.

I've already said that it's terrible.
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RK-Mara

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#17 RK-Mara
Member since 2006 • 11489 Posts
People prefer Morrowind over Oblivion over because it's a deeper RPG. It's natural that you didn't like Morrowind if you played Oblivion first, because the games are so different. For the same reason, many who played Morrowind first prefer it. Think about it from their perspective: they loved the game that didn't hold the player's hand, offered a massive unique world and really was something quite else for its time. Then comes Oblivion with a bland medieval fantasy world, copy paste dungeons and useless character development. In Morrowind there must have been over a dozen ''guilds'', in Oblivion there's only four and you can become a leader in every one of them with the same character. I could go on and on, but I'll just say that while Oblivion is a bad sequel, on its own merits it is a great game, and 6Gb of mods can make it a worthy successor to Morrowind.
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WreckEm711

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#18 WreckEm711
Member since 2010 • 7362 Posts

[QUOTE="menes777"]

[QUOTE="SkyWard20"] Great, but don't compare its graphics to Oblivion then. Why should I care if the game had good graphics and has more diverse environments if it looks like mud compared to Oblivion? How exactly will that bring me to like Morrowind better than Oblivion?SkyWard20

Because no one is saying the graphics look better than Oblivion. They are saying the gameplay is better than Oblivion.

I've already said that it's terrible.

Believe it or not, your word = / = law :P Shocker, right?

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menes777

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#19 menes777
Member since 2003 • 2643 Posts

[QUOTE="menes777"]

[QUOTE="SkyWard20"]

I couldn't get into it, at least not yet. The combat is VERY bad by modern standarts.

I loved Oblivion too, though. I'm not ready to give in to the masses of Morrowind fans that scream how it was far superior to Oblivion just yet, because well, I haven't seen it.

SkyWard20

The combat was based of your skill rather with the weapon rather than your skill with the mouse. Which if you are a fan of FPS's it seemed like you were constantly missing with blows that should have been landing. One camp said that the combat was improved, another camp said it was noobification for the FPS console kiddies that wanted instant gratification. There is alot of nostalgia surrounding Morrowind, but there are some valid points too. Oblivion was the first in it's series to be heavily consolized and as a result suffered the wrath. Sort of like how people say COD4 is so much better than MW2.

DIce rolls and first-person view don't sound too good by modern standards.

One of the arguments again Oblivion being an RPG was that the combat was more like an FPS because you were no longer playing the role but instead relying on your skill with a mouse to play the game. That's why it's labelled as an action/adventure rather than an RPG.

Maybe dice rolls don't sound to modern to you but to some people it makes perfect sense. That's why they prefer Morrowind over Oblivion. The more you played the game the better you got and you could take on the harder challenges. Another gripe about Oblivion was that you could take on any part of the game at any level. You could even finish it without leveling at all.

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menes777

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#20 menes777
Member since 2003 • 2643 Posts

[QUOTE="menes777"]

[QUOTE="SkyWard20"] Great, but don't compare its graphics to Oblivion then. Why should I care if the game had good graphics and has more diverse environments if it looks like mud compared to Oblivion? How exactly will that bring me to like Morrowind better than Oblivion?SkyWard20

Because no one is saying the graphics look better than Oblivion. They are saying the gameplay is better than Oblivion.

I've already said that it's terrible.

Besides the combat and the slow travelling, what is so terrible about it?

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kozzy1234

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#21 kozzy1234
Member since 2005 • 35966 Posts

Yes, imo Morrowind is the better game, for many many reasons that have been stated before.

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RK-Mara

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#22 RK-Mara
Member since 2006 • 11489 Posts
[QUOTE="Birdy09"][QUOTE="SkyWard20"]

I couldn't get into it, at least not yet. The combat is VERY bad by modern standarts.

I loved Oblivion too, though. I'm not ready to give in to the masses of Morrowind fans that scream how it was far superior to Oblivion just yet, because well, I haven't seen it.

The only argument I got so far ( from here ) about why Morrowind is better was that 'the environments were a lot more diverse', which, for a game that looks like mud by modern standarts, doesn't exactly sound very convincing.

And yes, the traveling IS slow.

SkyWard20
What? Morrowind looked great for its time, its unfair to degrade the fact that morrowinds content was overall superior to Oblivion because it came out years before....

Great, but don't compare its graphics to Oblivion then. Why should I care if the game had good graphics and has more diverse environments if it looks like mud compared to Oblivion? How exactly will that bring me to like Morrowind better than Oblivion?

I guess you haven't heard that Elder Scrolls series has a great mod community. For a game from 2002, Morrowind really doesn't look that bad.
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Macutchi

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#23 Macutchi
Member since 2007 • 11217 Posts

[QUOTE="Macutchi"]

in its day it was a superb rpg and much more of an rpg than then action/adventure type oblivion. i can see how it would be quite inaccessible in 2011 to new players though

SkyWard20

How was it much more of an RPG?

there was a lot less hand holding in morrowind. it had a deeper skill system and the levelling system was much better. there was just more detail to the game and to the game world. i'd say oblivion was designed to accomodate people who hadn't much previous experience with rpgs as much as it was designed for fans of the series.

oblivion made a lot of improvements over morrowind but morrowind is more of a pure rpg. both are great in their own way, which is best is just down to personal preference

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SkyWard20

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#24 SkyWard20
Member since 2009 • 4509 Posts
[QUOTE="Birdy09"][QUOTE="SkyWard20"][QUOTE="Birdy09"] What? Morrowind looked great for its time, its unfair to degrade the fact that morrowinds content was overall superior to Oblivion because it came out years before....

Great, but don't compare its graphics to Oblivion then. Why should I care if the game had good graphics and has more diverse environments if it looks like mud compared to Oblivion? How exactly will that bring me to like Morrowind better than Oblivion?

If you value a game because of its graphics over anything else then well... I dont know thats your choice. what good are those graphics when 90% of the landscape is copy pasted from the same 4-5 templates? thats what oblivion was, morrowind wasnt. The whole reason fans get so annoyed at oblivion is... that all the effort went into the graphics, alot of the "super dooper A.I" never made it to release, they made many poor design choices like scaled leveling, less overall content, less skills ect. They are annoyed because Oblivion didnt maintain the same level of variety and as a result despite some improvments like graphics, they went a step backwards in everything else. Mods fix this, to SOME extent, but it says alot when Vanilla Oblivion is worse than its predocessor.

That's an exaggeration. I saw enough variety in Oblivion's environments ( on the surface ). There was plenty of different vegetation depending on the area you were in. I'm still impressed by the foliage and plants of this game.
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SkyWard20

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#25 SkyWard20
Member since 2009 • 4509 Posts

[QUOTE="SkyWard20"][QUOTE="Birdy09"] What? Morrowind looked great for its time, its unfair to degrade the fact that morrowinds content was overall superior to Oblivion because it came out years before....RK-Mara
Great, but don't compare its graphics to Oblivion then. Why should I care if the game had good graphics and has more diverse environments if it looks like mud compared to Oblivion? How exactly will that bring me to like Morrowind better than Oblivion?

I guess you haven't heard that Elder Scrolls series has a great mod community. For a game from 2002, Morrowind really doesn't look that bad.

That doesn't look too bad, actually.

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Lucianu

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#26 Lucianu
Member since 2007 • 10347 Posts

I couldn't get into it, at least not yet. The combat is VERY bad by modern standarts.

I loved Oblivion too, though. I'm not ready to give in to the masses of Morrowind fans that scream how it was far superior to Oblivion just yet, because well, I haven't seen it.

The only argument I got so far ( from here ) about why Morrowind is better was that 'the environments were a lot more diverse', which, for a game that looks like mud by modern standarts, doesn't exactly sound very convincing.

And yes, the traveling IS slow.

SkyWard20

Stop over reacting already, and stop talking trash about the game.

That's not good criticism, that's just childish hate out of fanboysm.

Learn the difference, otherwise i'll just treat you like a fanboy.

The game looks good.

It's the PC version that shines.

The XBOX version of Morrowind is complete and utter crap and should be forgotten, by today's standards.

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Belwar555

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#27 Belwar555
Member since 2006 • 291 Posts

Yes, imo Morrowind is the better game, for many many reasons that have been stated before.

kozzy1234
A better RPG perhaps, but it seems to me that people are comparing the games like on similar grounds. They aspire to be different things. I have so far found Morrowin ld far less immersive, and generally less fun. If I want depth, I would have played Baldurs Gate.
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SkyWard20

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#28 SkyWard20
Member since 2009 • 4509 Posts

[QUOTE="SkyWard20"]

I couldn't get into it, at least not yet. The combat is VERY bad by modern standarts.

I loved Oblivion too, though. I'm not ready to give in to the masses of Morrowind fans that scream how it was far superior to Oblivion just yet, because well, I haven't seen it.

The only argument I got so far ( from here ) about why Morrowind is better was that 'the environments were a lot more diverse', which, for a game that looks like mud by modern standarts, doesn't exactly sound very convincing.

And yes, the traveling IS slow.

Lucianu

Stop over reacting already, and stop talking trash about the game.

That's not good criticism, that's just childish hate out of fanboysm.

Learn the difference, otherwise i'll just treat you like a fanboy.

The game looks good.

It's the PC version that shines.

The XBOX version of Morrowind is complete and utter crap and should be forgotten, by today's standards.

Ok, the game looks okay with mods.

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SkyWard20

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#29 SkyWard20
Member since 2009 • 4509 Posts

[QUOTE="kozzy1234"]

Yes, imo Morrowind is the better game, for many many reasons that have been stated before.

Belwar555

A better RPG perhaps, but it seems to me that people are comparing the games like on similar grounds. They aspire to be different things. I have so far found Morrowin ld far less immersive, and generally less fun. If I want depth, I would have played Baldurs Gate.

Streamlining can make a game more fun ( if it's done right ).

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Belwar555

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#30 Belwar555
Member since 2006 • 291 Posts
Also, like I said before, quantity =/= quality. Skills like Medium armour and spears seem trivial and more like filler than actual depth.
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Lucianu

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#31 Lucianu
Member since 2007 • 10347 Posts

Ok, the game looks okay with mods.

SkyWard20

Combat does indeed suck though.

But i can manage well.. it's not that bad, afterall my main drive-trough is the story(i want to see what the hell happens), and the exploration factor. That's the main reason why i got this game. That, and i love how open it is for mods. I love molding the game, to my liking, and then exploring, and playing the end result. I'll probably play this game for a good amount of time, it's up slowly getting up there in my top 20 games of all times.

But, to be honest, if i were to play vanilla Morrowind, i wouldn't. It's bland, dull, with a dead world that simply does not appeal to me.

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SkyWard20

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#32 SkyWard20
Member since 2009 • 4509 Posts
Also, like I said before, quantity =/= quality. Skills like Medium armour and spears seem trivial and more like filler than actual depth.Belwar555
I agree. It's better to mix some skills into one set together if they don't have much use on their own.
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RK-Mara

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#33 RK-Mara
Member since 2006 • 11489 Posts

[QUOTE="Belwar555"][QUOTE="kozzy1234"]

Yes, imo Morrowind is the better game, for many many reasons that have been stated before.

SkyWard20

A better RPG perhaps, but it seems to me that people are comparing the games like on similar grounds. They aspire to be different things. I have so far found Morrowin ld far less immersive, and generally less fun. If I want depth, I would have played Baldurs Gate.

Streamlining can make a game more fun ( if it's done right ).

Tru dat. ME2 is a great example of it. But level scaling in Oblivion is the wrong kind of streamlining.
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Brendissimo35

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#34 Brendissimo35
Member since 2005 • 1934 Posts

[QUOTE="Brendissimo35"]

It's less accessible for the twitchy modern RPG gamer... but It's a much, much deeper game. Overall, the depth, the freedom, and the unique care put into the world matters much more.

Belwar555

How is it deeper? Sure, you had more skills, but I don't see the difference between spears and axes - with the combat like Morrowind, the only difference is the model in your hand (unlike, say , mount&blade). quantity doesn't always equal quality or depth.

This is one of many explanations for it's depth. But honestly, If you've actually played Morrowind and not just scratched the surface (giving up in the first few hours), then you will know the objective and undisputable truth that Morrowind is a much deeper game and a better Role Playing experience than Oblivion. It's also much less accessible and some of the gameplay elements are dated by today's standards. Whether it is ultimately a better game is of course, a subjective issue that is still hotly debated. The difference in depth between the two titles is not.

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Belwar555

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#35 Belwar555
Member since 2006 • 291 Posts

[QUOTE="Belwar555"][QUOTE="kozzy1234"]

Yes, imo Morrowind is the better game, for many many reasons that have been stated before.

SkyWard20

A better RPG perhaps, but it seems to me that people are comparing the games like on similar grounds. They aspire to be different things. I have so far found Morrowin ld far less immersive, and generally less fun. If I want depth, I would have played Baldurs Gate.

Streamlining can make a game more fun ( if it's done right ).

A perfect example would be Mass Effect 2. I know I will get murdered for saying this, but by streamlining it, Bioware achieved their original goal much better, which was to tell an amazing, cinematic story in the best universe since Star Wars(and in my opinion better) filled with outstanding characters.
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SkyWard20

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#36 SkyWard20
Member since 2009 • 4509 Posts

[QUOTE="SkyWard20"]

Ok, the game looks okay with mods.

Lucianu

Combat does indeed suck though.

But i can manage well.. it's not that bad, afterall my main drive-trough is the story(i want to see what the hell happens), and the exploration factor. That's the main reason why i got this game. That, and i love how open it is for mods. I love molding the game, to my liking, and then exploring, and playing the end result. I'll probably play this game for a good amount of time, it's up slowly getting up there in my top 20 games of all times.

But, to be honest, if i were to play vanilla Morrowind, i wouldn't. It's bland, dull, with a dead world that simply does not appeal to me.

I don't hate the game, myself; I just don't think that it's SO much better than Oblivion. Admittedly, I haven't played much, but I already know that the combat doesn't appeal to me and that combat and exploration are big parts of the series... with the latter ending in the former more often than not. I don't really get the hate for Oblivion by former fans since the two games seem very similar in many ways though.
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CosmoKing7717

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#37 CosmoKing7717
Member since 2004 • 4602 Posts

Mmm i always tried to get into Morrowind after playing Oblivion and i could never stand how slow the characters ran in the game :P. Seriously killed so much for me.

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deactivated-5920bf77daa85

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#38 deactivated-5920bf77daa85
Member since 2004 • 3270 Posts

I purchased Morrowind and have tried out about an hour so far, and my reactions are poor to say the least. The combat is catastrophically bad (like, one of the worst I have seen), the traveling is slow and uneventful, and feels more like filler, the UI is very hard to manage - and that is just the first hour of play.Belwar555


QFT. I actually got morrowind years ago with my video card, but didn't play it until well after I beat oblivion. It was visually impressive (more interesting) but otherwise pretty mediocre. I couldn't do a single quest because my sword-equipped character couldn't kill a rat (I have a simple rule, if I can kill it in real life, a level one hero should be able to kill it in game). Then I realized there were no caps on training, and spent about 40 levels hanging around in-doors with trainers ( I used a money cheat) but then realized the combat was even worse than Oblivions, and quests directions were absolutely terrible, written by someone who should under no circumstances give directions ever. (oh? it's north-west, you say. well that only includes a quarter of the game world, but thanks anyway)

The only parts of the game I liked were the uniqueness, the visuals, and the story.

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SkyWard20

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#39 SkyWard20
Member since 2009 • 4509 Posts
[QUOTE="SkyWard20"]

[QUOTE="Belwar555"] A better RPG perhaps, but it seems to me that people are comparing the games like on similar grounds. They aspire to be different things. I have so far found Morrowin ld far less immersive, and generally less fun. If I want depth, I would have played Baldurs Gate.RK-Mara

Streamlining can make a game more fun ( if it's done right ).

Tru dat. ME2 is a great example of it. But level scaling in Oblivion is the wrong kind of streamlining.

I think Morrowind had some form of level scaling, though I know it's not the same as Oblivion.
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Belwar555

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#40 Belwar555
Member since 2006 • 291 Posts

[QUOTE="Belwar555"][QUOTE="Brendissimo35"]

It's less accessible for the twitchy modern RPG gamer... but It's a much, much deeper game. Overall, the depth, the freedom, and the unique care put into the world matters much more.

Brendissimo35

How is it deeper? Sure, you had more skills, but I don't see the difference between spears and axes - with the combat like Morrowind, the only difference is the model in your hand (unlike, say , mount&blade). quantity doesn't always equal quality or depth.

This is one of many explanations for it's depth. But honestly, If you've actually played Morrowind and not just scratched the surface (giving up in the first few hours), then you will know the objective and undisputable truth that Morrowind is a much deeper game and a better Role Playing experience than Oblivion. It's also much less accessible and some of the gameplay elements are dated by today's standards. Whether it is ultimately a better game is of course, a subjective issue that is still hotly debated. The difference in depth between the two titles is not.

While I still don't see a massive difference in depth, I see your point. However , I still believe that oblivion does a better at immersing than mirroring does at providing a deep RPG experience - but who am I to judge. It wasn't the game that Morrowind fans were waiting for, but that does not make it worse. Plus, I think there would have been ad many people disappointed if they made Morrowind 1.5 (just look at SC2).
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Lucianu

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#41 Lucianu
Member since 2007 • 10347 Posts

I don't hate the game, myself; I just don't think that it's SO much better than Oblivion. Admittedly, I haven't played much, but I already know that the combat doesn't appeal to me and that combat and exploration are big parts of the series... with the latter ending in the former more often than not. I don't really get the hate for Oblivion by former fans since the two games seem very similar in many ways though.SkyWard20

I never really liked the Elder Scrolls series, until recently wen i decided to give Morrowind another try with modding it. This time, it was a success, i'm starting to love Morrowind.

I've ben spoiled by the Gothic series.

You see, the NPCs in Gothic really add to the immersion of that world, they literally immitate life-like things, like sleeping, eating, working, playing around, traveling, drinking, etc., etc. I trully loved that, the scripting was art. I played and finished Gothic 1 & 2, and the atmosphere, soundtrack, i feel as if it's superior to Elder Scrolls.

And Elder Scrolls, with it's dead AI let me down big time wen i first tried it out..

Especially considering Oblivion was released in 2006, and Gothic in 2001.. there's no excuse for that.

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Lucianu

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#42 Lucianu
Member since 2007 • 10347 Posts

(just look at SC2)Belwar555

Uh.. SC2 is a mind-boggling succes, praised beyond expectations, though sticking to a well known formula.

Ofcourse there would be some people to dislike it, it's natural, especially for a famous game(GTAIV get hate beyond belief).

No game pleases all people.

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Belwar555

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#43 Belwar555
Member since 2006 • 291 Posts

[QUOTE="Belwar555"](just look at SC2)Lucianu

Uh.. SC2 is a mind-boggling succes, praised beyond expectations, though sticking to a well known formula.

Ofcourse there would be some people to dislike it, it's natural, especially for a famous game(GTAIV get hate beyond belief).

No game pleases all people.

I meant that most of the reviews critisized its similarity to SC 1, and there were plenty of people complaining that they paid 60 bucks for the same game. I'm just saying you can never please everyone, and you should consider the wants of others as well. In this case, it is people hating Oblivion for not being Morrowind, despite the fact many liked the approach.
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Belwar555

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#44 Belwar555
Member since 2006 • 291 Posts

[QUOTE="SkyWard20"]I don't hate the game, myself; I just don't think that it's SO much better than Oblivion. Admittedly, I haven't played much, but I already know that the combat doesn't appeal to me and that combat and exploration are big parts of the series... with the latter ending in the former more often than not. I don't really get the hate for Oblivion by former fans since the two games seem very similar in many ways though.Lucianu

I never really liked the Elder Scrolls series, until recently wen i decided to give Morrowind another try with modding it. This time, it was a success, i'm starting to love Morrowind.

I've ben spoiled by the Gothic series.

You see, the NPCs in Gothic really add to the immersion of that world, they literally immitate life-like things, like sleeping, eating, working, playing around, traveling, drinking, etc., etc. I trully loved that, the scripting was art. I played and finished Gothic 1 & 2, and the atmosphere, soundtrack, i feel as if it's superior to Elder Scrolls.

And Elder Scrolls, with it's dead AI let me down big time wen i first tried it out..

Especially considering Oblivion was released in 2006, and Gothic in 2001.. there's no excuse for that.

While I never played the gothic series (I came to late to the gaming scene) I loved risen for all the reasons you mentioned. It's a shame it ran out of steam by the 18 hour mark and kept throwing lizard warriors at me. I quit at that point. Compared to the amazing first two acts, the third one is, so far, the biggest let down in gaming for me.
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Ragingbear505

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#45 Ragingbear505
Member since 2008 • 819 Posts

Here it comes. Well actually it's really more of a mash up of posts I've made on the subject run together so if it seems poorly organized, it's because there is no organization.

Main Plot/Writing
Morrowind had much better writing than Oblivion. (Some spoilers ahead) The problem I had with Oblivion was that the writing was so uninspired, like they spent all their time on the engine and making the game look cool and then all of a sudden thought, oh crap we forgot the player has to be doing something. So we get the daedric prince of destruction coming to destroy the world because...some cult wants him to? The only person who can stop him is the priest of Kvatch who happens to be the illegitimate son of the Emperor who needs to get the amulet and use it to banish the evil back to where it came. It lacked a lot of substance and the player wasn't the hero of the story. Martin was, you do all the work and get a cool statue and armor but after that things were just the same as ever and it didn't have a big sense of accomplishment to it. Morrowind on the other hand really did an excellent job in creating this fantasy world where you initially seem inconsequential and then become the central figure of the story. You weren't just solving Vvardenfell's problems, they were your problems, and you don't even know you have them when the game first begins. Overtime you see this transformation of your character from prisoner to hero, along the way people doubt you, some even hate you, and even after you save the day some people still don't like you as you represent a part of dunmer history that some wish to stay dead. It was awesome and it made all the mundane tasks you do seem less like quests and more like stepping stones on the way to completing this transformation. It's the difference between closing Oblivion gates to make the big battle easier to traveling to a remote island to contract an incurable disease because it's something your character was destined to do.

World
Cyrodil in 2006 was the most amazing gorgeous scenery anyone had experienced in a while. It had dense forests, farmland, snowy mountains, a big city, towns, villages, crumbling fortresses, dungeons, caves. At first glance it seemed the perfect location for a fantasy adventure. It wasn't bad either, the problem was while the game was very pretty, it lacked a lot of character. The world never really felt like locations were unique. Each town had its own architecture but it didn't mean anything to the game. So the houses in Bruma are all halfway into the ground to conserve heat. Ok? That's not as important as say walking into a town in Morrowind and immediately being able to identify what Great House has the most prominence there just by looking at the architecture. The Telvanni towns had giant tendrils growing out of the ground or like in Vos tearing their way through the walls of an Imperial fort leaving giant holes. Those same tendrils made up the towers of wizards that could only be accessed by levitation ensuring that those they deemed beneath them who couldn't master magic would in theory be kept out. Each Great House had its own ****of bonemold armor, their own unique helmets. The councilmen hated their peers as much as they hated the other houses. They felt like real organizations who's actions had real weight in the world. The other factions were better designed as well. The temple who were based on Israeli temple culture, the Imperials and their distinctly roman occupation force, the East Empire Company were like real world mercantile organizations like the British East India Company. These all drew heavily from real world counterparts but rather than diminish the fantasy it actually gave these organizations some grounding in the world.

Gameplay
This area probably is the place that is most argued about. Which game was more fun. Both games are broken. Speechcraft in Morrowind is useless. Even at 100 skill you will still repeatedly fail speech checks over and over and over. The only thing it's useful for is taunting someone to try and kill you anyway so you can murder them without penalty. Everything else is easier to just use a bribe. Morrowind's sneaking was also faulty. It worked but in the old cRPG way that was illogical and entirely reliant on stats. This is the one area where I will say Oblivion did better, stealth in Oblivion actually seemed to be based on both your actions as a player and your skill level. Oblivion's combat was broken and magic was terrible. To address combat both games used a system of heavy repetition, Morrowind because you would often miss due to failing a hit check until higher levels and Oblivion because the leveled monster encounters meant each battle was a tedium of slowly hacking 1-2-3, block, strong attack, 1-2-3. This was my biggest gripe with Oblivion. Combat stats seemed to mean nothing. So what if you've got 100 skill in blade, by that time enemies will be strong enough that combat will feel identical to what you went through at level one. My character never seemed to progress and some skills like security were useless from the start because the minigame is so easy to complete. There is absolutely no reason to make security a major skill (Fallout 3 fixed this mind you by making locked objects require a skill check to attempt, something also present in Morrowind, and I presume this will probably be in the Elder Scrolls 5). The last thing I will mention is the compass and fast travel. I really think Morrowind nailed this and I don't know why they took this out. Fast travel existed but was limited and it was logical. You go to the silt strider or boat, you pay a fee, and it takes you to the one of the destinations listed and some hours pass. From there you can choose another destination to go further or travel on foot. It made travel easier while not entirely removing the need to actually seek things out. Oblivion did something awful by giving us quest markers. When I'm told to go down into the depths of a dungeon to find an artifact it takes a whole lot out of the adventure when I look on my compass or map and see a big green arrow pointing at an alcove with a chest saying "Here's that treasure you were looking for! Don't bother looking, and you can skip all those spooky hallways on the other side of the dungeon, they're just full of skeletons and low level loot drops, just come on over here, take it and leave" In Morrowind you were lucky if the NPC said here, I'll mark the location of the ancient ruin on your map. Usually they just gave you horrible directions like a real person would and you checked your journal and would look at the map and the road signs and then finally get pissed off and realize you were either lost or had taken a wrong turn because the directions were vague and you misinterpreted them, and you know what, it was great. Because when you finally found it, it's like the lost ruins of ******** Atlantis and you're going to pillage them.

Content
Oblivion cut down on a lot. Which really is kind of disappointing. To start in Morrowind you had the following armor slots.

-Helmet
-Left Pauldron
-Right Pauldron
-Cuirass
-Left gauntlet/bracer/glove
-Right gauntlet/bracer/glove
-Greaves
-Boots

Oblivion you had
-Helmet
-Cuirass
-Gloves
-Greaves
-Boots

What this meant was in Morrowind you would mix and match armor a lot, it added customization, as well as more variety. You could even wear clothes under armor, or robes and skirts over it. Argonians and Khajitts couldn't even wear boots or helmets because of the unique shape of their heads. Oblivion adjusted this by making all helmets open faced and giving them more humanoid features, it lacked personality.

Furthermore there were more spell types in Morrowind including an enchant skill. For combat there was long blade, short blade, blunt, hand-to-hand, axe, spear, and marksman. Marksmanship covered not only bows but also crossbows and throwing weapons like shurikens and throwing knives. There were many more armor types including subvariants of armor like imperial steel, imperial studded leather, imperial silver, imperial chainmail. Oblivion just felt really cut down and lacking inspiration.

You can become a vampire or a werewolf in Morrowind and there are related quests for both.

Then there are the factions. Note: The Blades and Sheogorath's Court (?) are technically factions but are parts of the main quest for both games and the Shivering Isles main quest respectively so they weren't included. Additionally mini-factions aren't included either as they're usually just a reward for completing a quest.

Morrowind:
Great House Redoran
Great House Telvanni
Great House Hlaalu
Fighters Guild
Mages Guild
Thieves Guild
Imperial Legion
Imperial Cult
Morag Tong
Tribunal Temple
East Empire Company

Oblivion:
Fighters Guild
Mages Guild
Thieves Guild
Dark Brotherhood
Arena

On its own I really don't feel like Oblivion is a bad game. Not at all. But coming from Morrowind it just felt really mediocre.

If you've played Morrowind or Daggerfall beforehand you'd see why Oblivion was such a massive disappointment. A lot of the design decisions might have seemed good on paper but were stupid in practice and ended up breaking the game worse than the original problem they sought to fix.

Major complaint in Morrowind: Game becomes too easy at high levels.
Solution in Oblivion: Revamp the leveled monster encounters to scale them almost exactly to the players abilities.
Major complaint in Oblivion: Monsters are scaled to the point where leveling up no longer has any meaning other than making the game more difficult. The game also fails to level some areas of the game to match this problem, like the final standoff with Martin and the militia at the Oblivion gate. The monsters are scaled to the player, but the guards are not, meaning the daedra wipe out the guards extremely fast leaving you to fend for yourself.

Major complaint in Morrowind: Combat system based on repetition and button mashing, hits only land based on skills, seems boring and unrealistic.
Solution in Oblivion: Revamp the combat system so every hit lands and a block key is added.
Major complaint in Oblivion: Combat system is extremely easy to exploit and combined with above leveling problems combat skills appear meaningless. Sure in Morrowind the combat was clunky and boring but at least your stats seemed to mean something.

Major complaint in Morrowind: Traveling is difficult and often players get lost trying to find quest objectives that aren't properly explained.
Solution in Oblivion: Implement a free fast travel system rather than fixed routes that have to be paid for and insert quest markers showing players the locations they need to go to on the map to complete quests.
Major complaint in Oblivion: Fast travel defeats the purpose of exploring the world and the game is built around it so "just don't use it" while a viable option is slow and tedious compared to Morrowind, even with a horse. Additionally the quest marker makes the game far too easy, the need to explore and experience the environment is removed almost entirely by a simple game mechanic.

Major complaint in Morrowind: NPC interaction feels sterile and repetitive.
Solution in Oblivion: Implement full voice acting, facial expressions, dynamic conversations, and lip syncing for all characters, as well as full night and day schedules.
Major complaint in Oblivion: NPC interaction feels sterile and repetitive, but now with annoying voice actors, and less conversation topics. Sure it's nice that every line is voiced, but when every nord male sounds exactly the same, and every dark elf female sounds exactly the same, it breaks the immersion. Additionally conversation topics have been reduced from around 10-20 to about 4. The dynamic conversation system is entirely broken with conversations happening such as:

"Hello!"
"I've heard [insert name] is quite the acrobat"
"Can you believe it? The emperor, killed!"
"Good bye!"

Furthermore the NPC schedules are nothing more than shop keepers going home to sleep every night and NPC's continue to wander aimlessly about town, something that we had in Morrowind.

Oblivion was mediocre.

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Barbariser

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#46 Barbariser
Member since 2009 • 6785 Posts

I haven't played the game, so I wouldn't know. That said, I'd be inclined to believe that because I can't comprehend how Morrowind could actually be WORSE than Oblivion.

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Born_Lucky

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#47 Born_Lucky
Member since 2003 • 1730 Posts

Oblivion better than Morrowind in the housing situation, the batlle system, the beauty of the landscapes, the travel, the graphics, the armor and weapons, the interface, and the magic system.

Morrowind was better in the variety of farms and towns, the sidequests, the exploration, the factions, the forts, the connection you feel to the game world, and the NPCs.

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deactivated-59d151f079814

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#48 deactivated-59d151f079814
Member since 2003 • 47239 Posts
Many people here would tell you that Oblivion unmodded is a game that pretends to be a rpg but its more like a weak sauce adventure game with meaningless rpg elements.
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Born_Lucky

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#49 Born_Lucky
Member since 2003 • 1730 Posts
Many people? The vast majority of gamers and reviewers consider Oblivion to be a AAA game and it really doesn't matter what a minority of people say about it = it's a great game - period A "weak sauce" adventure game.? What does that even mean?
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ssvegeta555

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#50 ssvegeta555
Member since 2003 • 2448 Posts

Ragingbear505, very thorough comparison and well said. I'm in the Morrowind is better camp and many of the things you mentioned ring true for me. Although you did forget two other mdoes of travel in Morrowind, Mage guild teleports (obviously only useful if your a member) and Mark/Recall spells, essentially a town portal spell, except the mark stays there until a new one is placed (my favorite mod is Multimark, 12 marks FTW).