**POLL** Which is Bethesda's best game for the PC?

[QUOTE="tony2077ca"][QUOTE="with_teeth26"]

What he said.

with_teeth26

As irritating as it may have been, the chance to hit combat made it more of an RPG. Whether or not you hit someone in Oblivion had to do with your timing, in Morrowind it was stat-based.

The combat was better in Oblivion though, it was the setting/world of Morrowind that makes it a better game. The world of Oblivion was totally dead and lifeless in comparison.

[QUOTE="bogaty"]

[QUOTE="KHAndAnime"] Sorry that Morrowind wasn't fast paced enough for you. It's not the game's fault. Even you can admit that Morrowind had more depth, had more content, and had much more of a cultured world. KHAndAnime

Sorry, but you're wrong on every count. Morrowind was shallow and the world was empty. The game was a pathetic grind where your actions had no real consequences. The game removed a tonne of content that was present in both Daggerfall and Arena and replaced it with a dumbed down system meant to appeal to the ADHD console jockey brigade. The topography of the island was well designed, but the devs fogot to fill that topography with anything meaningful or interesting. NPCs were cardboard cutouts who spewed the same 3 lines of text dialogue. Nothing you did mattered or was remembered. You could rob a place blind, flee the area, and come back 10 minutes later and sell everything back to the same merchant you just jacked. Combat was a farce and you could be guaranteed that by the time you reached 8-10th level, you'd never, ever be challenged in a fight again. Terrible game. Lowest point in Bethesda's career (and they've had a lot of lows.)

[QUOTE="KHAndAnime"][QUOTE="bogaty"]

Popularity doesn't equate with quality. Oprah's got one of the highest rated shows on TV, but I ain't gonna watch. Morrowind is shallow, repetitive trash. (I don't care for Starcraft at all either. HL2 was overrated. Decent enough game, but too linear and ultimately forgettable.)

bogaty

Ummm....OK.....so, obviously because I think (correctly) that Morrowind is trash, you assume that I automatically love Oblivion and Fallout 3?

[QUOTE="bogaty"]

[QUOTE="KHAndAnime"] Sorry that Morrowind wasn't fast paced enough for you. It's not the game's fault. Even you can admit that Morrowind had more depth, had more content, and had much more of a cultured world. KHAndAnime

Sorry, but you're wrong on every count. Morrowind was shallow and the world was empty. The game was a pathetic grind where your actions had no real consequences. The game removed a tonne of content that was present in both Daggerfall and Arena and replaced it with a dumbed down system meant to appeal to the ADHD console jockey brigade. The topography of the island was well designed, but the devs fogot to fill that topography with anything meaningful or interesting. NPCs were cardboard cutouts who spewed the same 3 lines of text dialogue. Nothing you did mattered or was remembered. You could rob a place blind, flee the area, and come back 10 minutes later and sell everything back to the same merchant you just jacked. Combat was a farce and you could be guaranteed that by the time you reached 8-10th level, you'd never, ever be challenged in a fight again. Terrible game. Lowest point in Bethesda's career (and they've had a lot of lows.)

Yea - certainly nothing you did mattered.... Oh wait, you're wrong. Again. Did you ever bother to play Bloodmoon? Sounds like you either never played the game, or GameFAQ'ed your way through it. Seems like Morrowind is a little above you.

EDIT: And all your problems that you've mentioned are easily fixed with a few minutes of installing mods.

Well, thanks for dropping the discussion down into the gutters of ad hominem attacks. Always a treat...

If fed-ex quests that did nothing at all to alter the game world other than to give you more experience points are interesting to you, well....more power to you.

Sorry, but I want an RPG where you actually interact with the game world and make choices that affect it, so the dialogue is most definitely not a moot point. I guess if you enjoy the idea of "generic NPC says dialogue option 1 for the 500th time, then Morrowind most definitely is the game for you!.

If all you're interested in is pointless grinding and pumping your stats up, I guess Morrowind would be the perfect game, since it offers up absolutely nothing else.

[QUOTE="with_teeth26"]

[QUOTE="tony2077ca"] i have to say oblivion is better not a fan of the way they did the abilities and the chance to hit stuff in morrowind dakan45

As irritating as it may have been, the chance to hit combat made it more of an RPG. Whether or not you hit someone in Oblivion had to do with your timing, in Morrowind it was stat-based.

The combat was better in Oblivion though, it was the setting/world of Morrowind that makes it a better game. The world of Oblivion was totally dead and lifeless in comparison.

[QUOTE="KHAndAnime"]

[QUOTE="bogaty"]

Sorry, but you're wrong on every count. Morrowind was shallow and the world was empty. The game was a pathetic grind where your actions had no real consequences. The game removed a tonne of content that was present in both Daggerfall and Arena and replaced it with a dumbed down system meant to appeal to the ADHD console jockey brigade. The topography of the island was well designed, but the devs fogot to fill that topography with anything meaningful or interesting. NPCs were cardboard cutouts who spewed the same 3 lines of text dialogue. Nothing you did mattered or was remembered. You could rob a place blind, flee the area, and come back 10 minutes later and sell everything back to the same merchant you just jacked. Combat was a farce and you could be guaranteed that by the time you reached 8-10th level, you'd never, ever be challenged in a fight again. Terrible game. Lowest point in Bethesda's career (and they've had a lot of lows.)

bogaty

Yea - certainly nothing you did mattered.... Oh wait, you're wrong. Again. Did you ever bother to play Bloodmoon? Sounds like you either never played the game, or GameFAQ'ed your way through it. Seems like Morrowind is a little above you.

EDIT: And all your problems that you've mentioned are easily fixed with a few minutes of installing mods.

Well, thanks for dropping the discussion down into the gutters of ad hominem attacks. Always a treat...

If fed-ex quests that did nothing at all to alter the game world other than to give you more experience points are interesting to you, well....more power to you.

Sorry, but I want an RPG where you actually interact with the game world and make choices that affect it, so the dialogue is most definitely not a moot point. I guess if you enjoy the idea of "generic NPC says dialogue option 1 for the 500th time, then Morrowind most definitely is the game for you!.

If all you're interested in is pointless grinding and pumping your stats up, I guess Morrowind would be the perfect game, since it offers up absolutely nothing else.

[QUOTE="bogaty"]

[QUOTE="KHAndAnime"] :lol: Morrowind is much less popular than Fallout 3 and Oblivion. Try again when you've got an argument that actually makes sense. KHAndAnime

Ummm....OK.....so, obviously because I think (correctly) that Morrowind is trash, you assume that I automatically love Oblivion and Fallout 3?

Looking back on your original post, yeah, you pretty much did, but you know, nice back-pedalling.

[QUOTE="with_teeth26"]

[QUOTE="tony2077ca"] i have to say oblivion is better not a fan of the way they did the abilities and the chance to hit stuff in morrowind dakan45

As irritating as it may have been, the chance to hit combat made it more of an RPG. Whether or not you hit someone in Oblivion had to do with your timing, in Morrowind it was stat-based.

The combat was better in Oblivion though, it was the setting/world of Morrowind that makes it a better game. The world of Oblivion was totally dead and lifeless in comparison.

Wait Morrowind is just a muddy world?http://s73.photobucket.com/albums/i201/Vality7/mge/MGEScreen17.jpg

http://s73.photobucket.com/albums/i201/Vality7/mge/MGEScreen07b.jpg

[QUOTE="KHAndAnime"]

[QUOTE="bogaty"]

Sorry, but you're wrong on every count. Morrowind was shallow and the world was empty. The game was a pathetic grind where your actions had no real consequences. The game removed a tonne of content that was present in both Daggerfall and Arena and replaced it with a dumbed down system meant to appeal to the ADHD console jockey brigade. The topography of the island was well designed, but the devs fogot to fill that topography with anything meaningful or interesting. NPCs were cardboard cutouts who spewed the same 3 lines of text dialogue. Nothing you did mattered or was remembered. You could rob a place blind, flee the area, and come back 10 minutes later and sell everything back to the same merchant you just jacked. Combat was a farce and you could be guaranteed that by the time you reached 8-10th level, you'd never, ever be challenged in a fight again. Terrible game. Lowest point in Bethesda's career (and they've had a lot of lows.)

bogaty

Yea - certainly nothing you did mattered.... Oh wait, you're wrong. Again. Did you ever bother to play Bloodmoon? Sounds like you either never played the game, or GameFAQ'ed your way through it. Seems like Morrowind is a little above you.

EDIT: And all your problems that you've mentioned are easily fixed with a few minutes of installing mods.

Well, thanks for dropping the discussion down into the gutters of ad hominem attacks. Always a treat...

If fed-ex quests that did nothing at all to alter the game world other than to give you more experience points are interesting to you, well....more power to you.

Sorry, but I want an RPG where you actually interact with the game world and make choices that affect it, so the dialogue is most definitely not a moot point. I guess if you enjoy the idea of "generic NPC says dialogue option 1 for the 500th time, then Morrowind most definitely is the game for you!.

If all you're interested in is pointless grinding and pumping your stats up, I guess Morrowind would be the perfect game, since it offers up absolutely nothing else.

[QUOTE="KHAndAnime"]

[QUOTE="bogaty"]

Ummm....OK.....so, obviously because I think (correctly) that Morrowind is trash, you assume that I automatically love Oblivion and Fallout 3?

bogaty

Looking back on your original post, yeah, you pretty much did, but you know, nice back-pedalling.

Of course no credibility for you since you gave CoD ( Original ) a 3 something lol. millerlight89

What can I say? I have an aversion to crap.

[QUOTE="millerlight89"] Of course no credibility for you since you gave CoD ( Original ) a 3 something lol. bogaty

What can I say? I have an aversion to crap.

[QUOTE="bogaty"]

[QUOTE="millerlight89"] Of course no credibility for you since you gave CoD ( Original ) a 3 something lol. KHAndAnime

What can I say? I have an aversion to crap.

Depends what they're simulating. I did some freelance writing for an online game site when I lived in Japan. The editor once demanded that I play a train simulator that a company had released for the PC and PS2. You'd spend hours driving your JR line train around Tokyo, trying to time your speed so you'd stop perfectly at each station. They even made a special controller for it, modelled on the actual train controller. By the end of the first hour, I wanted to throw myself in front of a real train.

[QUOTE="dakan45"][QUOTE="with_teeth26"]

As irritating as it may have been, the chance to hit combat made it more of an RPG. Whether or not you hit someone in Oblivion had to do with your timing, in Morrowind it was stat-based.

The combat was better in Oblivion though, it was the setting/world of Morrowind that makes it a better game. The world of Oblivion was totally dead and lifeless in comparison.

KHAndAnime

Excactly, Oblivon was more mevieval with humans, elfs and horse sand variation in enviroment, while morrowind was like a swampy island that was colonized by other races and they made some cheap villages and towers and kept on using the old dwemmer ruins!! As for the nature dying? All i could remember was smampy mainland, swampy islands and burned down mainland and islands, called ashlands!! Which pretty much looked like dead nature to me, like burned down to ashes!! I dont remember any forest or grasslands in morrowind, atleast not with the same size as oblivion, more like some grass here and there,but maby its just me never exploring the grazelands because i was bored bythen ;)

Whatever the case i couldnt find any snow on morrowind without the bloodmoon expansion!!

[QUOTE="dakan45"][QUOTE="with_teeth26"]

As irritating as it may have been, the chance to hit combat made it more of an RPG. Whether or not you hit someone in Oblivion had to do with your timing, in Morrowind it was stat-based.

The combat was better in Oblivion though, it was the setting/world of Morrowind that makes it a better game. The world of Oblivion was totally dead and lifeless in comparison.

Suffca

Wait Morrowind is just a muddy world?http://s73.photobucket.com/albums/i201/Vality7/mge/MGEScreen17.jpg

http://s73.photobucket.com/albums/i201/Vality7/mge/MGEScreen07b.jpg

Of course Oblivion had greater graphics and tech over Morrowind. It came out years later and is current gen. Morrowind was last gen, but is still a better game. With the graphic upgrade it got, it got a downgrade in content.millerlight89

[QUOTE="millerlight89"]Of course Oblivion had greater graphics and tech over Morrowind. It came out years later and is current gen. Morrowind was last gen, but is still a better game. With the graphic upgrade it got, it got a downgrade in content.dakan45

[QUOTE="dakan45"][QUOTE="millerlight89"]Of course Oblivion had greater graphics and tech over Morrowind. It came out years later and is current gen. Morrowind was last gen, but is still a better game. With the graphic upgrade it got, it got a downgrade in content.millerlight89

Where's Rogue Warrior?monkeymoose5000

:D

Where's Rogue Warrior?monkeymoose5000

[QUOTE="monkeymoose5000"]Where's Rogue Warrior?millerlight89

haven't played it, but the devs can take solace in the fact that, no matter how bad it is, it can't be worse than Morrowind.

[QUOTE="millerlight89"][QUOTE="monkeymoose5000"]Where's Rogue Warrior?bogaty

haven't played it, but the devs can take solace in the fact that, no matter how bad it is, it can't be worse than Morrowind.

[QUOTE="Suffca"]

[QUOTE="dakan45"] I agree in what you say but i dont understand how a muddy world has more life than a world filled with forests, plains, and snowy mountains. dakan45

Wait Morrowind is just a muddy world?http://s73.photobucket.com/albums/i201/Vality7/mge/MGEScreen17.jpg

http://s73.photobucket.com/albums/i201/Vality7/mge/MGEScreen07b.jpg

[QUOTE="with_teeth26"]

[QUOTE="tony2077ca"] i have to say oblivion is better not a fan of the way they did the abilities and the chance to hit stuff in morrowind dakan45

As irritating as it may have been, the chance to hit combat made it more of an RPG. Whether or not you hit someone in Oblivion had to do with your timing, in Morrowind it was stat-based.

The combat was better in Oblivion though, it was the setting/world of Morrowind that makes it a better game. The world of Oblivion was totally dead and lifeless in comparison.

I see where you are coming from, and yes, Oblivion is much prettier, the environments are more varied, and the AI is more dynamic in that NPC's don't just stand around in one place all the time.

At the surface, Oblivion's world is much more lively than Morrowinds. Where Oblivion fails is that there is no lore or culture to back any of this up. A fairly standard 'evil is surfacing, all are going to die' plot is all that holds the world together, whereas Morrowind's world, while bleak and unappealing on the surface, was full of intriguing towns with political issues, racism, and culture which was simply missing from Oblivon. Exploration in Morrowind was simply more rewarding because of all the great little spots that could be found all over the place, and while exploration in Oblivions (Tamriel? i can't remember) world is much more pleasing to the eye, there really isn't much to be found other than some relatively uninteresting towns and a bunch of cut and paste dungeons. I'm not bashing Oblivion, i truly love the game, i'm just saying that Morrowind had a more hand-crafted, well developed world.

"Screens"

^ Nice mods, i can tell you that not in the game the way it is, you can even tell that by looking at the screens!!!

Yeah but I never said vanilla Morrowind is better than vanilla Oblivion. If you really want a more lively game then that's what the mods are for. It sounds like you never gave the game a chance.

Yeah but I never said vanilla Morrowind is better than vanilla Oblivion. If you really want a more lively game then that's what the mods are for. It sounds like you never gave the game a chance.

Suffca

[QUOTE="Suffca"]

Yeah but I never said vanilla Morrowind is better than vanilla Oblivion. If you really want a more lively game then that's what the mods are for. It sounds like you never gave the game a chance.

dakan45

[QUOTE="dakan45"][QUOTE="Suffca"]

Yeah but I never said vanilla Morrowind is better than vanilla Oblivion. If you really want a more lively game then that's what the mods are for. It sounds like you never gave the game a chance.

KHAndAnime

No i am just fighting the "common knowledge" that rules in these forums that Morrowind was 10000 times better than oblivion while in real life people believe the exact opposite that oblivion is better than morrowind!!dakan45

[QUOTE="dakan45"]No i am just fighting the "common knowledge" that rules in these forums that Morrowind was 10000 times better than oblivion while in real life people believe the exact opposite that oblivion is better than morrowind!!Mograine

You do realize that you entire argument could easily and justifiably be shifted to the whole Daggerfall vs. Morrowind debate, right?

[QUOTE="dakan45"]No i am just fighting the "common knowledge" that rules in these forums that Morrowind was 10000 times better than oblivion while in real life people believe the exact opposite that oblivion is better than morrowind!!Mograine

[QUOTE="Mograine"][QUOTE="dakan45"]No i am just fighting the "common knowledge" that rules in these forums that Morrowind was 10000 times better than oblivion while in real life people believe the exact opposite that oblivion is better than morrowind!!bogaty

You do realize that you entire argument could easily and justifiably be shifted to the whole Daggerfall vs. Morrowind debate, right?

No, i mean in real life, you know...in real life, everyone around me says that oblivion is better than morrowind and thats not just me. I remember another user telling me that when he joined this forum he was amazed by the fact that oblivion is bashed in these forums but in the real life its the exact opposite!!! 1-People like me who played morrowind first and disliked it and then played oblivion and love it!! 2-Depth? If depth means playing for hours without having fun, then i will choose something that i actually have fun isntead of a game that is not fun at all, but it has "depth"dakan45

I see your point, although it proves the second point in my list, but this...

3-Thats way too invalid to even make an argument againest it, its just plain wrong!!!dakan45

...is an exageration, it's not "plain wrong". I meant that the combat is painfully easy in Oblivion, while custom spells are great once you reach certain levels you can rely on throwing one single spell to obliterate a whole group of enemies.

In fact, sometimes I did it too while in cities :D

[QUOTE="dakan45"] No, i mean in real life, you know...in real life, everyone around me says that oblivion is better than morrowind and thats not just me. I remember another user telling me that when he joined this forum he was amazed by the fact that oblivion is bashed in these forums but in the real life its the exact opposite!!! 1-People like me who played morrowind first and disliked it and then played oblivion and love it!! 2-Depth? If depth means playing for hours without having fun, then i will choose something that i actually have fun isntead of a game that is not fun at all, but it has "depth"Mograine

I see your point, although it proves the second point in my list, but this...

3-Thats way too invalid to even make an argument againest it, its just plain wrong!!!dakan45

...is an exageration, it's not "plain wrong". I meant that the combat is painfully easy in Oblivion, while custom spells are great once you reach certain levels you can rely on throwing one single spell to obliterate a whole group of enemies.

In fact, sometimes I did it too while in cities :D

Oblivion.

Morrwind and yes oblivion is a dumbed down version where the devs made some code to hold your hand to help you walk. The only thing that the game is missing is the ability to press one button and win the game.

Morrowind has a lot of cities and little towns and villages - something Oblivion really needed more of - but - in every other way Oblivion is better than Morrowind.

.

Fallout 3 does almost everything right, and does the best job of making the player feel connected to the game world - so I guess I'd give it to Fallout 3.

Morrowind is the best. It wasn't as epic as Daggerfall, but it was way more detailed than any other The Elder Scrolls. Also, I enjoyed the volcanic setting and the Dagoth Ur story.

"- Let's not make this official, Outlander. Move along!" Said the Ordinator in Vivec. The feeling of being an stranger in a strange land was the best thing of the game.

Daggerfall comes in second. The story of the Underking was good, the skill tree the best in the series, and game world was the largest ever seen on a RPG. Unfortunatelly the game was buggy and too much randomically generated. It can be the best after the DaggerXL project is complete: http://daggerxl.wordpress.com/

[QUOTE="millerlight89"][QUOTE="KHAndAnime"] I can vouch for the fact that Dakan will never like Morrowind.dakan45

Personally, I really did think Morrowind was much better than Oblivion (liked both games, MW was the better RPG) and I believe I exist in the real world. What Oblivion did was make the RPG more accessible, simplified some of the options, and made it both faster paced and prettier. For me, as a verteran, old-school RPG player, those were things that detracted from the game. Well, except the prettier part, I liked that. Those things I didn't like, however, would definitely make the game more attractive to a much wider audience, so I understand why they did it that way. But it didn't make a better RPG, just an easier RPG.

Still not bad, but Oblivion just isn't the RPG Morrowind was. It could have been, but they chose to go for the wider audience.

I liked Daggerfall the most, it and the other one (Arena?) are free on their site also.