So what innovations does SWTOR bring to the MMORPG genre?

I really don't understand the hype for the game..

Everything that people love about singleplayer games, thus missing the point of MMOs.

Pointless cinematic and voice acting or as I like to call them, wasted Gigs of HD space.

Randomised conversation options?

Also it's a fully voiced mmo, which is apparently an innovation. :SReach-The-Myth

Wasn't DC Universe Online fully voiced? And that had Mark Hamill, so that's fun too.

Well it doesn't have to revamp the MMO genre to be a great game. I don't care too much for the whole "what does it bring to the table that's new" argument.

Let me ask this....what did WoW bring "new" to the table that other MMOs didn't? Nothing major in my opinion....but they did it better than everyone else. But then other MMOs have brought "new" stuff like public quest (WAR) and Rifts (RIFT) and other crap and still they can't hold their own to Blizzards WoW.

The point is that a games does not have to bring a bunch of new crap to be a great game.

Randomised conversation options?

Planeforger

Age of Conan has that...

Randomised conversation options?

[QUOTE="Reach-The-Myth"]Also it's a fully voiced mmo, which is apparently an innovation. :SPlaneforger

Wasn't DC Universe Online fully voiced? And that had Mark Hamill, so that's fun too.

The longest BioWare story ever told? The continuation of an epic saga from the last two KotOR games? Fully voice acted characters? Unique classes for every faction? Independent plotlines based on your class? Dialogue choices? Romances in an MMO? Deciding your character's personality and history and alignment in a persistent world? Unique spaceships for every class? Playing a BioWare game in of the most famous SF settings ever created? Playing alien species you've never even heard of from the movies in the same Star Wars universe? Exploring famous Star Wars planets? Unique companions for each and every class and faction?

FINDING OUT WHAT GODDAMN REVAN WAS DOING ALL THIS TIME?

And what have you, Guild Wars 2?

Pointless cinematic and voice acting or as I like to call them, wasted Gigs of HD space.

-wildflower-

How's Eschalon treating you, wildflower? Which playthrough are you on right now?

[QUOTE="Planeforger"]

Randomised conversation options?

Jebus213

Age of Conan has that...

Age of Conan has like two basic dialogue lines you get to choose from during conversations in the tutorial part of the game.

Disregarding the 'randomised' part since it's utterly pointless.

The longest BioWare story ever told? The continuation of an epic saga from the last two KotOR games? Fully voice acted characters? Unique classes for every faction? Independent plotlines based on your class? Dialogue choices? Romances in an MMO? Deciding your character's personality and history and alignment in a persistent world? Unique spaceships for every class? Playing a BioWare game in of the most famous SF settings ever created? Playing alien species you've never even heard of from the movies in the same Star Wars universe? Exploring famous Star Wars planets? Unique companions for each and every class and faction?

FINDING OUT WHAT GODDAMN REVAN WAS DOING ALL THIS TIME?

And what have you, Guild Wars 2?

SkyWard20

[QUOTE="-wildflower-"]

Pointless cinematic and voice acting or as I like to call them, wasted Gigs of HD space.

SkyWard20

How's Eschalon treating you, wildflower? Which playthrough are you on right now?

Eschalon's a fine game, actually. Not sure how that's germain to the topic at hand but...

Romances in a MMORPG you say? Sign me up! I can finally check, "doing a wookie," off of my bucket list. Oh, Bioware, you had me at hello.

[QUOTE="SkyWard20"]

[QUOTE="-wildflower-"]

Pointless cinematic and voice acting or as I like to call them, wasted Gigs of HD space.

-wildflower-

How's Eschalon treating you, wildflower? Which playthrough are you on right now?

Eschalon's a fine game, actually. Not sure how that's germain to the topic at hand but...

Romances in a MMORPG you say? Sign me up! I can finally check, "doing a wookie," off of my bucket list. Oh, Bioware, you had me at hello.

Oh yeah, romances in video games is where we should draw the line at! It's not like roleplaying games ever were about changing how your character is perceived in the game world or little things like player feedback.

That's totally off-limits. BioWare should stick to making visual novels.

BioWare should stick to making visual novels.

SkyWard20

Uhm, isn't that pretty much what they're doing now? There's very little "game" in Bioware games.

The longest BioWare story ever told? The continuation of an epic saga from the last two KotOR games? Fully voice acted characters? Unique classes for every faction? Independent plotlines based on your class? Dialogue choices? Romances in an MMO? Deciding your character's personality and history and alignment in a persistent world? Unique spaceships for every class? Playing a BioWare game in of the most famous SF settings ever created? Playing alien species you've never even heard of from the movies in the same Star Wars universe? Exploring famous Star Wars planets? Unique companions for each and every class and faction?

FINDING OUT WHAT GODDAMN REVAN WAS DOING ALL THIS TIME?

And what have you, Guild Wars 2?

SkyWard20

I didn't see anything new other then "Fully voice acted characters" and "your own space ship".

Im much more looking forward to guild wars 2 in honesty.

[QUOTE="Jebus213"]

[QUOTE="Planeforger"]

Randomised conversation options?

SkyWard20

Age of Conan has that...

Age of Conan has like two basic dialogue lines you get to choose from during conversations in the tutorial part of the game.

Disregarding the 'randomised' part since it's utterly pointless.

You should have played a little bit past the tutorial then.

I didn't see anything new other then "Fully voice acted characters" and "your own space ship".Jebus213

SWG had space ships and they weren't on-rails. You could actually fly wherever you wanted in the space zones. Imagine that!

When I played WoW the thing I never liked was the bombardment of poorly written quest text asking you to do petty things. Bioware have given ToR KOTOR quality quests with Mass Effect's camera conversation tricks and full voice acting for that needed spark of personality many MMO's lack and what separates them from a quality RPG.

Paying a monthly fee to play a lenghty Bioware RPG coupled with WoW like gameplay and mechanics.

Imokwiththis.

Pointless cinematic and voice acting or as I like to call them, wasted Gigs of HD space.

-wildflower-

.. Its suprising that you of all people are saying that seeing as your the one that champions rpgs like Planescape Torment which was all about the dialogue.. That being said.. Absolutely nothing of note so far, all that has been proimised are empty claims and promises that are text book of a dev promising too much and ending up too short.

[QUOTE="Jebus213"]I didn't see anything new other then "Fully voice acted characters" and "your own space ship".-wildflower-

SWG had space ships and they weren't on-rails. You could actually fly wherever you wanted in the space zones. Imagine that!

.. Unfortunately I don't see how any one can champion that one way or the other.. What usually happens is the dev gives you a whole lot of empty space and meaningless mechanics because the game is promising too much.. It would be like having Eve wher eyour characters can go down to planets to walk around.. Too much to program and what we will see is a Spore effect.. Too much promised, spread too thin.. Leading to a shallow experience..

[QUOTE="SkyWard20"]

The longest BioWare story ever told? The continuation of an epic saga from the last two KotOR games? Fully voice acted characters? Unique classes for every faction? Independent plotlines based on your class? Dialogue choices? Romances in an MMO? Deciding your character's personality and history and alignment in a persistent world? Unique spaceships for every class? Playing a BioWare game in of the most famous SF settings ever created? Playing alien species you've never even heard of from the movies in the same Star Wars universe? Exploring famous Star Wars planets? Unique companions for each and every class and faction?

FINDING OUT WHAT GODDAMN REVAN WAS DOING ALL THIS TIME?

And what have you, Guild Wars 2?

Jebus213

I didn't see anything new other then "Fully voice acted characters" and "your own space ship".

Look harder then.

Not all of it is completely new, by the way. Some of it is just very rare to see, and twice as rare to see well-done.

[QUOTE="Jebus213"]

[QUOTE="SkyWard20"]

The longest BioWare story ever told? The continuation of an epic saga from the last two KotOR games? Fully voice acted characters? Unique classes for every faction? Independent plotlines based on your class? Dialogue choices? Romances in an MMO? Deciding your character's personality and history and alignment in a persistent world? Unique spaceships for every class? Playing a BioWare game in of the most famous SF settings ever created? Playing alien species you've never even heard of from the movies in the same Star Wars universe? Exploring famous Star Wars planets? Unique companions for each and every class and faction?

FINDING OUT WHAT GODDAMN REVAN WAS DOING ALL THIS TIME?

And what have you, Guild Wars 2?

SkyWard20

I didn't see anything new other then "Fully voice acted characters" and "your own space ship".

Look harder then.

Not all of it is completely new, by the way. Some of it is just very rare to see, and twice as rare to see well-done.

Yeah I am going to hav eto wait for the reactions of beta players.. Then feed into the hype engine of the Bioware advertisement department.

[QUOTE="SkyWard20"]

[QUOTE="Jebus213"]

I didn't see anything new other then "Fully voice acted characters" and "your own space ship".

sSubZerOo

Look harder then.

Not all of it is completely new, by the way. Some of it is just very rare to see, and twice as rare to see well-done.

Yeah I am going to hav eto wait for the reactions of beta players.. Then feed into the hype engine of the Bioware advertisement department.

Most of those beta players are most likely hardcore Star Wars fans. I don't see a lot of honesty coming from it.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="SkyWard20"]

Look harder then.

Not all of it is completely new, by the way. Some of it is just very rare to see, and twice as rare to see well-done.

Jebus213

Yeah I am going to hav eto wait for the reactions of beta players.. Then feed into the hype engine of the Bioware advertisement department.

Most of those beta players are most likely hardcore Star Wars fans. I don't see a lot of honesty coming from it.

I doubt that.. Beta players are usually the MMORPG players.. TO get into the beta afterall you have to pay attention to the community and apply, I can only see MMORPG players every doing that at this time..

[QUOTE="SkyWard20"]

[QUOTE="Jebus213"]

Age of Conan has that...

Jebus213

Age of Conan has like two basic dialogue lines you get to choose from during conversations in the tutorial part of the game.

Disregarding the 'randomised' part since it's utterly pointless.

You should have played a little bit past the tutorial then.

No need.

[QUOTE="SkyWard20"]

[QUOTE="Jebus213"]

I didn't see anything new other then "Fully voice acted characters" and "your own space ship".

sSubZerOo

Not all of it is completely new, by the way. Some of it is just very rare to see, and twice as rare to see well-done.

Yeah I am going to hav eto wait for the reactions of beta players.. Then feed into the hype engine of the Bioware advertisement department.

Theirs have been mostly positive, from what I've heard.

[QUOTE="Jebus213"]

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

Yeah I am going to hav eto wait for the reactions of beta players.. Then feed into the hype engine of the Bioware advertisement department.

sSubZerOo

Most of those beta players are most likely hardcore Star Wars fans. I don't see a lot of honesty coming from it.

I doubt that.. Beta players are usually the MMORPG players.. TO get into the beta afterall you have to pay attention to the community and apply, I can only see MMORPG players every doing that at this time..

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="Jebus213"]

Most of those beta players are most likely hardcore Star Wars fans. I don't see a lot of honesty coming from it.

MythPro1

I doubt that.. Beta players are usually the MMORPG players.. TO get into the beta afterall you have to pay attention to the community and apply, I can only see MMORPG players every doing that at this time..

Signed up early? Check.

No invitation? Check.

I've tried signing up since the very first day we've had that option!

SWTOR brings in Single player elements and might remove even more focus on player interaction.

Edit: But on the bright side, levelling in SWTOR looks highly enjoyable. And might be worth the money just for the levelling experience.

The longest BioWare story ever told? Not only the longest, but also with the most perspectives. The continuation of an epic saga from the last two KotOR games? I dont know why, but I like KotoR more than the prequel trilogy. Fully voice acted characters? Boo! No voice acting please, I prefer reading and not having gigs wasted. Unique classes for every faction? Warhammer Online Independent plotlines based on your class? Dialogue choices? EverQuest 2, Age of Conan. Romances in an MMO? Dating digital characters? Then cheating on them, right infront of their face without them reacting, how nice. Deciding your character's personality and history and alignment in a persistent world? Deciding your characters history has been done in EvE online and City of Heroes. Alignment is not a good idea for mmos, because it doesnt account for player interaction, except for MapleStory where it was used more as a commidity than anything. Deciding your characters personality has been done in like every mmo. Unique spaceships for every class? I would rather have my spaceship decided by me htan the game dephending on my class, this kinda hurts roleplaying. Playing a BioWare game in of the most famous SF settings ever created? Playing alien species you've never even heard of from the movies in the same Star Wars universe? And you cant play as a Wookie, Gamorrean, Jawa or one of Yoda's species. Instead we get to play as a blind human, a blue human and a red human with horns. Exploring famous Star Wars planets? Unique companions for each and every class and faction? I am really hoping this companion system means some non-instanced areas in the world will be balanced towards group content, that would be awesome. But dephending on how optional it is, it wont bother me.

FINDING OUT WHAT GODDAMN REVAN WAS DOING ALL THIS TIME?

And what have you, Guild Wars 2?

SkyWard20

Replies in bold.

Guild Wars 2 isnt looking to innovate much either. What it will do is take what elements that worked and refine them to the next level, possibly revolutionizing Themepark mmos again.

but but they npcs talk! seriously besides the voiceovers, nothing. All i see is the same clone all other fail mmorpgs were, if they had something new they would announced it by now, but all i see is bioware trying to sell wow + star wars + voiceovers.

SWTOR brings in Single player elements and might remove even more focus on player interaction.

Edit: But on the bright side, levelling in SWTOR looks highly enjoyable. And might be worth the money just for the levelling experience.

Boo! No voice acting please, I prefer reading and not having gigs wasted.

I don't care that much about having my own avatar voice acted, but I like seeing other characters in the game world have that.

Warhammer OnlineEverQuest 2, Age of Conan.

Age of Conan does this very sparingly. It's usually two lines, at most. Only played a little EverQuest 2, but I don't remember much of that either. Most of these characterizations and narrative elements in other MMORPG's seem very experimental compared to what BioWare's doing.

Dating digital characters? Then cheating on them, right infront of their face without them reacting, how nice. Oh brother, I've already answered this one. Extra characterization? More depth to a character's personality? Again, since when have roleplaying games stopped being about player feedback and changing how the game world perceives him? Incidentally, many RPG's regarded as one of the best story-driven games in their genre have had some form of... 'dating'. Imagine that!

And characters always react to cheating in BioWare games.

Deciding your characters history has been done in EvE online and City of Heroes.

To what extent?

Alignment is not a good idea for mmos, because it doesnt account for player interaction.

Players should account for player interaction.

Deciding your characters personality has been done in like every mmo.

I really don't know about many MMORPG's that actually let you decide and play out your character's personality. Obviously, I'm not talking about 'headcanon' ( i.e. just your imagination ).

And you cant play as a Wookie, Gamorrean, Jawa or one of Yoda's species. Instead we get to play as a blind human, a blue human and a red human with horns.

Can't be easily done in a story-driven RPG due to their uniqueness. Jawa and Yoda's species are especially mysterious creatures in the Star Wars universe, so that's not exactly easy to do. This complaint seems a bit unreasonable.

I am really hoping this companion system means some non-instanced areas in the world will be balanced towards group content, that would be awesome. But dephending on how optional it is, it wont bother me.

FINDING OUT WHAT GODDAMN REVAN WAS DOING ALL THIS TIME?

And what have you, Guild Wars 2?

Maroxad

I've played Warhammer Online myself for a while, so I'm aware it also has 'unique' classes.

Like I said though, most of these things I listed are very rare and twice as rare to see well-done. Warhammer Online, for example, is known to have been an imbalanced mess, and I would argue that the classes themselves are not completely unique ( more like counterparts ).

Finally an MMO that...... HAS A BIG ASPECT ON STORYTELLING!

Finally an MMO that...... HAS A BIG ASPECT ON STORYTELLING!

kozzy1234

No one said it was innovating. It's Bioware and Starwars that's where they hype is coming from.

[QUOTE="Maroxad"]

I don't care that much about having my own avatar voice acted, but I like seeing other characters in the game world have that.

All to themselves, but I have never been a fan of voice acting and have always prefered reading. I get more immersed that way.

Age of Conan does this very sparingly. It's usually two lines, at most. Only played a little EverQuest 2, but I don't remember much of that either. Most of these characterizations and narrative elements in other MMORPG's seem very experimental compared to what BioWare's doing.

It was mostly insignificant in EQ2, but I do believe there was one part which determined how you were going to complete a quest.

Oh brother, I've already answered this one. Extra characterization? More depth to a character's personality? Again, since when have roleplaying games stopped being about player feedback and changing how the game world perceives him? Incidentally, many RPG's regarded as one of the best story-driven games in their genre have had some form of... 'dating'. Imagine that!

I see it as a waste of resources personally, romances can be done with other players.

And characters always react to cheating in BioWare games.

So they will react when I do a flirt emote with another party member?

To what extent?

In City of X it determined some of the items that could be used, determined your initial questline and what extra skill you would have. In EvE online it determined your starting skills and attributes.

Players should account for player interaction.

I really don't know about many MMORPG's that actually let you decide and play out your character's personality. Obviously, I'm not talking about 'headcanon' ( i.e. just your imagination ).

That is exactly how it does work out, but just in case, EQ2 for instance, lets you set your voice, which determines how you speak, one character of the same class/sex/race may be a lot more aggressive or flirty than another.

Can't be easily done in a story-driven RPG due to their uniqueness. Jawa and Yoda's species are especially mysterious creatures in the Star Wars universe, so that's not exactly easy to do. This complaint seems a bit unreasonable.

I was really hoping to play as a wookie personally, not playing as one of Joda's species could be understood but Gamorreans or Jawas was a bit disappointing. Sure, playing as a Wookie might have been a bit hard due to their linguistic disabilities, but they could be compensated with a translation droid of some sort. But all the confirmed playable races look so... uninspired.

SkyWard20

I've played Warhammer Online myself for a while, so I'm aware it also has 'unique' *****es.

Like I said though, most of these things I listed are very rare and twice as rare to see well-done. Warhammer Online, for example, is known to have been an imbalanced mess, and I would argue that the ****s themselves are not completely unique ( more like counterparts ).

Well, if SWTOR delivers these successfully, I will give it some credit. And it better, with its budget and all.

[QUOTE="kozzy1234"]

Finally an MMO that...... HAS A BIG ASPECT ON STORYTELLING!

MadCat46

I dissagree, 99% of mmos have crap story's, hopefully The Old Republic changes this

[QUOTE="-wildflower-"]

[QUOTE="Jebus213"]I didn't see anything new other then "Fully voice acted characters" and "your own space ship".sSubZerOo

SWG had space ships and they weren't on-rails. You could actually fly wherever you wanted in the space zones. Imagine that!

.. Unfortunately I don't see how any one can champion that one way or the other.. What usually happens is the dev gives you a whole lot of empty space and meaningless mechanics because the game is promising too much.. It would be like having Eve wher eyour characters can go down to planets to walk around.. Too much to program and what we will see is a Spore effect.. Too much promised, spread too thin.. Leading to a shallow experience..

Don't bring up spore, it still saddens my heart - it should ave been so much better -.-

I see it as a waste of resources personally, romances can be done with other players.

W-what?

So they will react when I do a flirt emote with another party member?

Maroxad

Emotes don't exactly constitute story-driven elements; they're just social interactions between players.

The Lich King won't react to me flirting with him either, if it comes down to that.

[QUOTE="MadCat46"][QUOTE="kozzy1234"]

Finally an MMO that...... HAS A BIG ASPECT ON STORYTELLING!

kozzy1234

I dissagree, 99% of mmos have crap story's, hopefully The Old Republic changes this

I dont see what people like about these types of MMOs. Maybe it's because that's the way i learnt to play MMOs, but I simply can't enjoy an MMORPG that revolves around PvE and questing and tries as hard as it can to keep to minimize player conflicts by ommiting PKing and allowing PvPing only in special zones. Effectively making the PvP pointless. You should be forced to fight for that great spot in the dungeon, not be protected because of the stupid instances. You should fight to earn that raidboss, and keep the enemy guilds at bay while yours kills it. It feels 10 times better when you finally succed and brag it to their face and get the loot too, than finihing some lolheroiclolinstance.

[QUOTE="Maroxad"]

I see it as a waste of resources personally, romances can be done with other players.

W-what?

So they will react when I do a flirt emote with another party member?

SkyWard20

Emotes don't exactly constitute story-driven elements; they're just social interactions between players.

The Lich King won't react to me flirting with him either, if it comes down to that.

Emotes can result in story progression. Stories can be developed entirely through player interaction and not with any influence from the developers at all, many sandboxes are proof of this. This is exactly how I believe the best stories in the genre mmo genre are developed, entirely through player interaction and unscripted.

Also, seeing some random person flirt with you is a whole lot different than witnessing your lover flirt with someone else.

Everything that people love about singleplayer games, thus missing the point of MMOs.

Baranga

age of conan

Well it doesn't have to revamp the MMO genre to be a great game. I don't care too much for the whole "what does it bring to the table that's new" argument.

Let me ask this....what did WoW bring "new" to the table that other MMOs didn't? Nothing major in my opinion....but they did it better than everyone else. But then other MMOs have brought "new" stuff like public quest (WAR) and Rifts (RIFT) and other crap and still they can't hold their own to Blizzards WoW.

The point is that a games does not have to bring a bunch of new crap to be a great game.

BSC14

wow brought high production quality

[QUOTE="SkyWard20"]

[QUOTE="Maroxad"]

I see it as a waste of resources personally, romances can be done with other players.

W-what?

So they will react when I do a flirt emote with another party member?

Maroxad

Emotes don't exactly constitute story-driven elements; they're just social interactions between players.

The Lich King won't react to me flirting with him either, if it comes down to that.

Emotes can result in story progression. Stories can be developed entirely through player interaction and not with any influence from the developers at all, many sandboxes are proof of this. This is exactly how I believe the best stories in the genre mmo genre are developed, entirely through player interaction and unscripted.

Also, seeing some random person flirt with you is a whole lot different than witnessing your lover flirt with someone else.

Different or not, NPC's are not designed to be responsive to player emotes for the most part. Emotes can only result in story progression to a very small extent and if they are scripted -- they were designed for player interactions first and foremost, and it's there where they're going to generate a response for the most part, too, simply because there are far, far superior tools for storytelling at a developer's disposal.

I wouldn't even qualify player-specific roleplaying in MMO's as storytelling at all, so you've sort of lost me there.

I really don't understand the hype for the game..

Jebus213