What makes S.T.A.L.K.E.R. so good?

[QUOTE="chesterocks7"][QUOTE="The_Review"][QUOTE="biggest_loser"]

[QUOTE="The_Review"]What makes STALKER so good? The ending. Because it ends.The_Review

Which ending though? :P

you could try being helpful and point out what about it you dont like instead of just blurting out that its just crap.

Though, trying to find something good about STALKER would be like trying to find a peanut in your vomit, to be quite honest.

Hahaha it's almost like Yahtzee only in written form and funnier :lol:

*bookmarked*

[QUOTE="chesterocks7"]

because the only thing doom is good at is sending a lot of enemies at you at once and giving you weapons that do lots of dmg and have fancy effects. there is absolutely no depth whatsoever.fatshodan

If complicated gameplay mechanics were important, we'd all be playing Sim Accountant - most games most people play have very little in the way of depth. They're simple, and they're built around a few concepts which are repeted ad infinitum. It may be a little more obvious in Doom, but most games share the same basic concepts, especially amongst the FPS genre.

every other type of game requires you to think in some way, or engage some part of you that is more than hand-eye co-ordination.chesterocks7

Every? That's ridiculous. All pure blooded FPS games are more about hand-eye coordination and reflexes than they are thought. If you have to think about what you're doing in a firefight, you're dead. That'll never change. FPS games can have engaging stories, but let's be honest, 98% of FPS stories are no better than Doom's (Half Life's story is actually a copy of Doom's with a little extra fluff) and storytelling in FPS games is generally non-existant.

arcade shooters can be enjoyable, but as far as the depth and value of a game, doom and games like doom are on the bottom of the list imo.chesterocks7

Value? I've been religiously playing Doom for fourteen years. It one of the most perfect, most timeless games I've ever played - and its lack of depth is the cause. I expect I'll be playing it for the next decade, too.

Clearly it's not a genre you like, but making a statement like Doom has been outclassed by every other genre is very bold, not to mention wrong.

yes all games are built around simple concepts, but most are fleshed out more than doom. fps' are all aim and shoot. but almost all fps games other than the doom series actually have somewhat of a storyline. to say that half-life's story is a copy of doom's with a little more fluff is a ridiculous claim. doom's story is a hell portal opened on mars and demons are trying to get to earth. thats it. there arent even any characters. and you have obviously not played anything but doom in those past 14 years if you think that 98% of fps games have no story. the only reason doom is still alive is because the original game was such a hit and the fanbase created by that still follows it devoutly, as you are evidence of. doom has no story other than you have to kill things. it is the most brainless game ever created. just because you are a religious follower of a horrible game, dont try to convince everyone that that game is better than all others. i would bet money that if i created a poll on gamespot asking which game is better, doom or 6 other popular games, doom would be in last place. you seem to think that just because doom pioneered the shooter genre, it will always be the best game ever created, however, doom as been outdone and beaten time and time again, because ppl have actually come to appreciate the hard work put into other great titles, and doom just doesnt reach that mark. point and click may be the foundation for all fps' but thats all doom's got, and that is why it is inferior to all the games that go farther than that.

Yeah, I would say the gun play isn't the best, it does have a great variety of guns, close to the variety of Fallout, or other RPG type games, but the weapons seem to be horribly inacurate and inconsistent. Having said that, I loved Stalker because it mixes some RPG in with an FPS plus gives you challanging opponants. The AI is very good imo. They flank, cooperate and can be very sneaky. I've also been taken by surprise by one crouching behind a box and waiting until he had a clear shot at my back to take me out...

However, some parts of the reality can be a bit frustrating, but I applaud it.

[QUOTE="The_Review"][QUOTE="chesterocks7"][QUOTE="The_Review"][QUOTE="biggest_loser"]

[QUOTE="The_Review"]What makes STALKER so good? The ending. Because it ends.inoperativeRS

Which ending though? :P

you could try being helpful and point out what about it you dont like instead of just blurting out that its just crap.

Though, trying to find something good about STALKER would be like trying to find a peanut in your vomit, to be quite honest.

Hahaha it's almost like Yahtzee only in written form and funnier :lol:

*bookmarked*

Something tells me you may be interested in this: http://www.youtube.com/user/RSJGaMeRPrO

[QUOTE="The_Review"][QUOTE="chesterocks7"][QUOTE="The_Review"][QUOTE="biggest_loser"]

[QUOTE="The_Review"]What makes STALKER so good? The ending. Because it ends.inoperativeRS

Which ending though? :P

you could try being helpful and point out what about it you dont like instead of just blurting out that its just crap.

Though, trying to find something good about STALKER would be like trying to find a peanut in your vomit, to be quite honest.

Hahaha it's almost like Yahtzee only in written form and funnier :lol:

*bookmarked*

Ugh... That's nothing like Zero Punctuation. All this guy does is swear every second sentence. Yahtzee uses more original ways to make fun of something and if he does swear, he does so with a lot of style.

[QUOTE="fatshodan"][QUOTE="chesterocks7"]

because the only thing doom is good at is sending a lot of enemies at you at once and giving you weapons that do lots of dmg and have fancy effects. there is absolutely no depth whatsoever.chesterocks7

If complicated gameplay mechanics were important, we'd all be playing Sim Accountant - most games most people play have very little in the way of depth. They're simple, and they're built around a few concepts which are repeted ad infinitum. It may be a little more obvious in Doom, but most games share the same basic concepts, especially amongst the FPS genre.

every other type of game requires you to think in some way, or engage some part of you that is more than hand-eye co-ordination.chesterocks7

Every? That's ridiculous. All pure blooded FPS games are more about hand-eye coordination and reflexes than they are thought. If you have to think about what you're doing in a firefight, you're dead. That'll never change. FPS games can have engaging stories, but let's be honest, 98% of FPS stories are no better than Doom's (Half Life's story is actually a copy of Doom's with a little extra fluff) and storytelling in FPS games is generally non-existant.

arcade shooters can be enjoyable, but as far as the depth and value of a game, doom and games like doom are on the bottom of the list imo.chesterocks7

Value? I've been religiously playing Doom for fourteen years. It one of the most perfect, most timeless games I've ever played - and its lack of depth is the cause. I expect I'll be playing it for the next decade, too.

Clearly it's not a genre you like, but making a statement like Doom has been outclassed by every other genre is very bold, not to mention wrong.

yes all games are built around simple concepts, but most are fleshed out more than doom. fps' are all aim and shoot. but almost all fps games other than the doom series actually have somewhat of a storyline. to say that half-life's story is a copy of doom's with a little more fluff is a ridiculous claim. doom's story is a hell portal opened on mars and demons are trying to get to earth. thats it. there arent even any characters. and you have obviously not played anything but doom in those past 14 years if you think that 98% of fps games have no story. the only reason doom is still alive is because the original game was such a hit and the fanbase created by that still follows it devoutly, as you are evidence of. doom has no story other than you have to kill things. it is the most brainless game ever created. just because you are a religious follower of a horrible game, dont try to convince everyone that that game is better than all others. i would bet money that if i created a poll on gamespot asking which game is better, doom or 6 other popular games, doom would be in last place. you seem to think that just because doom pioneered the shooter genre, it will always be the best game ever created, however, doom as been outdone and beaten time and time again, because ppl have actually come to appreciate the hard work put into other great titles, and doom just doesnt reach that mark. point and click may be the foundation for all fps' but thats all doom's got, and that is why it is inferior to all the games that go farther than that.

I have to disagree. First off, I should say that I'm not a Doom fan and have never played a Doom game all the way through. However, the original Doom is pretty much as pure gameplay as you can get in a FPS. Some people enjoy the simplicity of the game and the way it captures the act of killing in an almost artistic fashion. I personally prefer games with more substance, but to say that Doom has been "outclassed" isn't really a fair statement.

if you have a good pc whats there not to like about stalker?
its simply the coolest pc game ever made.

if you have a good pc whats there not to like about stalker?
its simply the coolest pc game ever made.

[QUOTE="chesterocks7"][QUOTE="fatshodan"][QUOTE="chesterocks7"]

because the only thing doom is good at is sending a lot of enemies at you at once and giving you weapons that do lots of dmg and have fancy effects. there is absolutely no depth whatsoever.BlueBirdTS

If complicated gameplay mechanics were important, we'd all be playing Sim Accountant - most games most people play have very little in the way of depth. They're simple, and they're built around a few concepts which are repeted ad infinitum. It may be a little more obvious in Doom, but most games share the same basic concepts, especially amongst the FPS genre.

every other type of game requires you to think in some way, or engage some part of you that is more than hand-eye co-ordination.chesterocks7

Every? That's ridiculous. All pure blooded FPS games are more about hand-eye coordination and reflexes than they are thought. If you have to think about what you're doing in a firefight, you're dead. That'll never change. FPS games can have engaging stories, but let's be honest, 98% of FPS stories are no better than Doom's (Half Life's story is actually a copy of Doom's with a little extra fluff) and storytelling in FPS games is generally non-existant.

arcade shooters can be enjoyable, but as far as the depth and value of a game, doom and games like doom are on the bottom of the list imo.chesterocks7

Value? I've been religiously playing Doom for fourteen years. It one of the most perfect, most timeless games I've ever played - and its lack of depth is the cause. I expect I'll be playing it for the next decade, too.

Clearly it's not a genre you like, but making a statement like Doom has been outclassed by every other genre is very bold, not to mention wrong.

yes all games are built around simple concepts, but most are fleshed out more than doom. fps' are all aim and shoot. but almost all fps games other than the doom series actually have somewhat of a storyline. to say that half-life's story is a copy of doom's with a little more fluff is a ridiculous claim. doom's story is a hell portal opened on mars and demons are trying to get to earth. thats it. there arent even any characters. and you have obviously not played anything but doom in those past 14 years if you think that 98% of fps games have no story. the only reason doom is still alive is because the original game was such a hit and the fanbase created by that still follows it devoutly, as you are evidence of. doom has no story other than you have to kill things. it is the most brainless game ever created. just because you are a religious follower of a horrible game, dont try to convince everyone that that game is better than all others. i would bet money that if i created a poll on gamespot asking which game is better, doom or 6 other popular games, doom would be in last place. you seem to think that just because doom pioneered the shooter genre, it will always be the best game ever created, however, doom as been outdone and beaten time and time again, because ppl have actually come to appreciate the hard work put into other great titles, and doom just doesnt reach that mark. point and click may be the foundation for all fps' but thats all doom's got, and that is why it is inferior to all the games that go farther than that.

I have to disagree. First off, I should say that I'm not a Doom fan and have never played a Doom game all the way through. However, the original Doom is pretty much as pure gameplay as you can get in a FPS. Some people enjoy the simplicity of the game and the way it captures the act of killing in an almost artistic fashion. I personally prefer games with more substance, but to say that Doom has been "outclassed" isn't really a fair statement.

well, i dont want to keep arguing about doom, cause thats not what this thread is about. everyone is entitled to their opinion, and ill just leave it at that.

thanks to everyone who's told me about the plus and minus' of stalker. i think im going to go purchase it now.

[QUOTE="inoperativeRS"][QUOTE="The_Review"][QUOTE="chesterocks7"][QUOTE="The_Review"][QUOTE="biggest_loser"]

[QUOTE="The_Review"]What makes STALKER so good? The ending. Because it ends.BlackAlpha666

Which ending though? :P

you could try being helpful and point out what about it you dont like instead of just blurting out that its just crap.

Though, trying to find something good about STALKER would be like trying to find a peanut in your vomit, to be quite honest.

Hahaha it's almost like Yahtzee only in written form and funnier :lol:

*bookmarked*

Ugh... That's nothing like Zero Punctuation. All this guy does is swear every second sentence. Yahtzee uses more original ways to make fun of something and if he does swear, he does so with a lot of style.

Matter of opinion. IMO Yahtzee is good but thinks a bit too much of himself. I find this guy much more fun to read, he's completely crazy over the top.

Matter of opinion. IMO Yahtzee is good but thinks a bit too much of himself. I find this guy much more fun to read, he's completely crazy over the top.

inoperativeRS

I guess it's enjoyable if you like blunt swearing.

[QUOTE="inoperativeRS"][QUOTE="The_Review"][QUOTE="chesterocks7"][QUOTE="The_Review"][QUOTE="biggest_loser"]

[QUOTE="The_Review"]What makes STALKER so good? The ending. Because it ends.BlueBirdTS

Which ending though? :P

you could try being helpful and point out what about it you dont like instead of just blurting out that its just crap.

Though, trying to find something good about STALKER would be like trying to find a peanut in your vomit, to be quite honest.

Hahaha it's almost like Yahtzee only in written form and funnier :lol:

*bookmarked*

Something tells me you may be interested in this: http://www.youtube.com/user/RSJGaMeRPrO

His youtube profile is promising at least.

[QUOTE="inoperativeRS"]

Matter of opinion. IMO Yahtzee is good but thinks a bit too much of himself. I find this guy much more fun to read, he's completely crazy over the top.

BlackAlpha666

I guess it's enjoyable if you like blunt swearing.

It's not about enjoying blunt swearing, it's about enjoying the whole character he creates :P

[QUOTE="RK-Mara"][QUOTE="The_Review"]

If you want my entire opinion on the game, then read my review.

The_Review

I tried and it's impossible to read even a full paragraph of your reviews. I'm going to get banned for this but I'll still say it: *

Also, maybe you should have read the warning if you're not man enough to handle my (amazing) reviews.

So sad that there are still actually people that are rascist, how pathetic! :roll:

lol! All I asked was "which ending?" yeesh, haha.

This game really does divide people!!

EDIT: Well I read this fellows COD4 "review". Thats not a review, its more of a blog entry than anything. What is the point of reviewing anything if you know you are just going to hate it and put rubbish on it?!

Well. So far every peson has either really liked STALKER or really hated it. However, i think you'll be in for a bit of a shocker if you are expecting an FPS game of the Crysis/HL2 variety. Its not. Not at all. If anything i'd venture to say the actual gun play of STALKER isnt very good at all.

While STALKER is closer to an FPS, it has enough RPG elements to it that really makes it standout above most FPS games. It also has incredible atmosphere. Few games actually make you believe like you are there, and STALKER does this very well. Levels arent unrealistically designed like in HL2 nor are they simply sandbox regions of vegetation like Crysis. Something in between the two.

Combat isnt run and gun - you'll die in 5 seconds if you do that. But at the same time its not so tactical as some of the Rainbow 6 games. Its scary, but not so horror focused as FEAR.

I guess the best thing about STALKER is... that theres aboslutely nothing like STALKER. Its a big hybrid of a game that actually manages to work isntead of make a mess of things.

XaosII

I'd actully disagree with you there.

EDIT: Well I read this fellows COD4 "review". Thats not a review, its more of a blog entry than anything. What is the point of reviewing anything if you know you are just going to hate it and put rubbish on it?!

biggest_loser

I have to congratulate you for being able to read it.

Omg amazing news the user The_Review has been banned, lets all rejoice and play some sweet sweet S.T.A.L.K.E.R.wood_duck

Yeah I reported the link to his blog.

[QUOTE="wood_duck"]Omg amazing news the user The_Review has been banned, lets all rejoice and play some sweet sweet S.T.A.L.K.E.R.biggest_loser

Yeah I reported the link to his blog.

Oh god thank you so much, i could'nt stand that arrgogant, racist idiot.

Atmosphere is very important. It's what makes you keep coming back for more. Sort of like Morrowind. The world and setting is amazing. The gameplay is good too. It has the best shoot ballistics in most shooters and I prefer the gunplay in Stalker to any other game. The graphics aren't too bad, and the sounds is awesome. GodLovesDead

I agree, the detail that went into the ballistics in this game is great, and this game with full dynamic lighting looks amazing, while in an environment with complex geometry the shadows they cast while in a lightning storm is very realistic and adds to the creepy atmosphere.

What makes STALKER so good? The fact that it's an extremely atmospheric game that it does well the blending of the FPS and RPG genres, and the gameplay elements from both of those genres still remain intact.

yes all games are built around simple concepts, but most are fleshed out more than doom.chesterocks7

So? How fun a game is is what matters - in one of my all time favourite games of all time, all you do is draw shapes with your mouse. There's no story - it's not about story. It's about fun gameplay mechanics. And, last time I checked, games were about fun first and foremost, and all the constituent elements of a computer game were designed to that end.

fps' are all aim and shoot. but almost all fps games other than the doom series actually have somewhat of a storyline.chesterocks7

Doom does have a storyline, and I think it's a great storyline. It has very little in the way of storytelling, but 90% of the FPS genre is barely one rung above Doom on the ladder of quality storytelling.

to say that half-life's story is a copy of doom's with a little more fluff is a ridiculous claim. doom's story is a hell portal opened on mars (correction: Mars' Moon) and demons are trying to get to earth. thats it.chesterocks7

And Half Life's story is a portal to an alternate dimension that's opened on Earth and aliens running rampant. The HL story has a little more fluff, as I said, but it's the same basic storyline.

there arent even any characters. and you have obviously not played anything but doom in those past 14 years if you think that 98% of fps games have no story.chesterocks7

Understand that by no I mean ****ing awful and not worth paying attention to. I can name about six FPS games that have genuinely great stories, and I can assure you that I have played every FPS worth playing.

Oh, and if you don't recognise my username, avatar and signature, you don't deserve to talk about FPS games and their stories.

the only reason doom is still alive is because the original game was such a hit and the fanbase created by that still follows it devoutly, as you are evidence of.chesterocks7

And its gameplay mechanics still haven't been topped, even though plenty of recent games have tried. Games like Serious Sam and its sequels, Painkiller, Starship Troopers and the soon to be released Necrovision. The hectic swarm-slaughter gameplay is still going strong, and while it's a niche market today, that market still exists. And Doom is still the finest example of a game built for such a market.

doom has no story other than you have to kill things. it is the most brainless game ever created.chesterocks7

Okay, firstly. Let's just clarify something here. FPS games are not about stories. Barring scant few exceptions, the storyline in a FPS exists for one reason: to give context to the gunplay. That's the only reason stories exist in FPS games. People do not play FPS games for stories, they play them for combat.

As for it being the most brainless game ever - what does that even mean? FPS games aren't about thought, they're about instinct and reflex.

just because you are a religious follower of a horrible game, dont try to convince everyone that that game is better than all others.chesterocks7

See, you're misunderstanding me. I didn't say it was better than the other games, I said it could not be compared - the core gameplay mechanics are too different. I wouldn't compare Doom with Half Life because that's like comparing, as I said, an electric oven with an office chair. They are very different things and they set out to do different things.

i would bet money that if i created a poll on gamespot asking which game is better, doom or 6 other popular games, doom would be in last place.chesterocks7

Yeah, and I bet that ten years from now, if you put Half Life 2 on a list with six other games, Half Life 2 will be in last place. I fail to see your point, unless your point is that most people on GS are kids who can only appreciate games with pretty graphics.

you seem to think that just because doom pioneered the shooter genre, it will always be the best game ever created,chesterocks7

No, I seem to think that Doom will always be the best at what it does - and what it does is provide insane action and huge numbers of enemies to gun down. As I said before this argument even started, I wouldn't compare Doom with a game like Half Life, because they have fundamentally different gameplay mechanics. But, unlike you, I make room for both Doom and Half Life on the pantheon.

however, doom as been outdone and beaten time and time again, because ppl have actually come to appreciate the hard work put into other great titles, and doom just doesnt reach that mark.chesterocks7

Doom has not been outdone even once at what it does. There are games with more complicated gameplay mechanics and better storytelling, but there are also games with more complicated gameplay mechanics and better storytelling than a driving game. Would you compare them? Of course you wouldn't.

point and click may be the foundation for all fps' but thats all doom's got, and that is why it is inferior to all the games that go farther than that.chesterocks7

In your opinion, sure. But I'm openminded enough to make room for all great games. Not just the recent ones with pretty graphics. Doom offers the kind of insane high action, as well as truly iconic enemies and weapons, which you cannot find anywhere else.

I've only played it briefly, but I don't understand what all the fuss is about.

*extremely minor spoilers (just first mission)*

Frankly, the game feels broken to me. For example, in the first mission, you're tasked with rescuing some guy. So another guy tells you to meet up with some of his comrades and you'll attack together. Well, you talk with them and the person you talk to will ask if you want to do it together or go in alone. I choose do it together...he just continues on his merry way with everyone else, which makes the first mission frustratingly difficult for a new player.

Also, it seems overally complicated. Like, I like the idea of having bandages stop bleeding and health packs doing something else, but I don't think it works at the end of the day. It just requires far more buttons than ought to be necessary for an engrossing experience. The game could definately stand to have a strong (but could be skipped) tutorial.

Lastly, I'll just say that I think there are too many creatures walking about at all times. Perhaps this is a mod issue since I'm using the highly recommended Oblivion Lost mod, but there are far more creatures wondering about than what I'd consider fun and/or realistic.

I'm still going to give it another shot, though, because I love the atmosphere and the open-world idea of the game.

I've only played it briefly, but I don't understand what all the fuss is about.

*extremely minor spoilers (just first mission)*

Frankly, the game feels broken to me. For example, in the first mission, you're tasked with rescuing some guy. So another guy tells you to meet up with some of his comrades and you'll attack together. Well, you talk with them and the person you talk to will ask if you want to do it together or go in alone. I choose do it together...he just continues on his merry way with everyone else, which makes the first mission frustratingly difficult for a new player.

Also, it seems overally complicated. Like, I like the idea of having bandages stop bleeding and health packs doing something else, but I don't think it works at the end of the day. It just requires far more buttons than ought to be necessary for an engrossing experience. The game could definately stand to have a strong (but could be skipped) tutorial.

Lastly, I'll just say that I think there are too many creatures walking about at all times. Perhaps this is a mod issue since I'm using the highly recommended Oblivion Lost mod, but there are far more creatures wondering about than what I'd consider fun and/or realistic.

I'm still going to give it another shot, though, because I love the atmosphere and the open-world idea of the game.

Vampyronight

So you want to run around for hours without finding any monsters or people to kill?

[QUOTE="biggest_loser"]

[QUOTE="wood_duck"]Omg amazing news the user The_Review has been banned, lets all rejoice and play some sweet sweet S.T.A.L.K.E.R.wood_duck

Yeah I reported the link to his blog.

Oh god thank you so much, i could'nt stand that arrgogant, racist idiot.

x2, people like that are so pathetic. I feel sorry for the guy, I hope he wakes up, and gets his act together.

[QUOTE="chesterocks7"]

yes all games are built around simple concepts, but most are fleshed out more than doom.fatshodan

So? How fun a game is is what matters - in one of my all time favourite games of all time, all you do is draw shapes with your mouse. There's no story - it's not about story. It's about fun gameplay mechanics. And, last time I checked, games were about fun first and foremost, and all the constituent elements of a computer game were designed to that end.

fps' are all aim and shoot. but almost all fps games other than the doom series actually have somewhat of a storyline.chesterocks7

Doom does have a storyline, and I think it's a great storyline. It has very little in the way of storytelling, but 90% of the FPS genre is barely one rung above Doom on the ladder of quality storytelling.

to say that half-life's story is a copy of doom's with a little more fluff is a ridiculous claim. doom's story is a hell portal opened on mars (correction: Mars' Moon) and demons are trying to get to earth. thats it.chesterocks7

And Half Life's story is a portal to an alternate dimension that's opened on Earth and aliens running rampant. The HL story has a little more fluff, as I said, but it's the same basic storyline.

there arent even any characters. and you have obviously not played anything but doom in those past 14 years if you think that 98% of fps games have no story.chesterocks7

Understand that by no I mean ****ing awful and not worth paying attention to. I can name about six FPS games that have genuinely great stories, and I can assure you that I have played every FPS worth playing.

Oh, and if you don't recognise my username, avatar and signature, you don't deserve to talk about FPS games and their stories.

the only reason doom is still alive is because the original game was such a hit and the fanbase created by that still follows it devoutly, as you are evidence of.chesterocks7

And its gameplay mechanics still haven't been topped, even though plenty of recent games have tried. Games like Serious Sam and its sequels, Painkiller, Starship Troopers and the soon to be released Necrovision. The hectic swarm-slaughter gameplay is still going strong, and while it's a niche market today, that market still exists. And Doom is still the finest example of a game built for such a market.

doom has no story other than you have to kill things. it is the most brainless game ever created.chesterocks7

Okay, firstly. Let's just clarify something here. FPS games are not about stories. Barring scant few exceptions, the storyline in a FPS exists for one reason: to give context to the gunplay. That's the only reason stories exist in FPS games. People do not play FPS games for stories, they play them for combat.

As for it being the most brainless game ever - what does that even mean? FPS games aren't about thought, they're about instinct and reflex.

just because you are a religious follower of a horrible game, dont try to convince everyone that that game is better than all others.chesterocks7

See, you're misunderstanding me. I didn't say it was better than the other games, I said it could not be compared - the core gameplay mechanics are too different. I wouldn't compare Doom with Half Life because that's like comparing, as I said, an electric oven with an office chair. They are very different things and they set out to do different things.

i would bet money that if i created a poll on gamespot asking which game is better, doom or 6 other popular games, doom would be in last place.chesterocks7

Yeah, and I bet that ten years from now, if you put Half Life 2 on a list with six other games, Half Life 2 will be in last place. I fail to see your point, unless your point is that most people on GS are kids who can only appreciate games with pretty graphics.

you seem to think that just because doom pioneered the shooter genre, it will always be the best game ever created,chesterocks7

No, I seem to think that Doom will always be the best at what it does - and what it does is provide insane action and huge numbers of enemies to gun down. As I said before this argument even started, I wouldn't compare Doom with a game like Half Life, because they have fundamentally different gameplay mechanics. But, unlike you, I make room for both Doom and Half Life on the pantheon.

however, doom as been outdone and beaten time and time again, because ppl have actually come to appreciate the hard work put into other great titles, and doom just doesnt reach that mark.chesterocks7

Doom has not been outdone even once at what it does. There are games with more complicated gameplay mechanics and better storytelling, but there are also games with more complicated gameplay mechanics and better storytelling than a driving game. Would you compare them? Of course you wouldn't.

point and click may be the foundation for all fps' but thats all doom's got, and that is why it is inferior to all the games that go farther than that.chesterocks7

In your opinion, sure. But I'm openminded enough to make room for all great games. Not just the recent ones with pretty graphics. Doom offers the kind of insane high action, as well as truly iconic enemies and weapons, which you cannot find anywhere else.

as i said before this is all a matter of opinion, which is why im not going to argue this further. but the fact is, most people prefer a game with depth, a fleshed out story, and good gameplay mechanics, over a game that just throws tons of enemies at you and gives you tons of guns and ammo. if you feel inclined to argue this more, ill make a poll to see what most people prefer. but trying to convince others of your opinion when they feel differently is a hopelessly futile task.

[QUOTE="Vampyronight"]

I've only played it briefly, but I don't understand what all the fuss is about.

*extremely minor spoilers (just first mission)*

Frankly, the game feels broken to me. For example, in the first mission, you're tasked with rescuing some guy. So another guy tells you to meet up with some of his comrades and you'll attack together. Well, you talk with them and the person you talk to will ask if you want to do it together or go in alone. I choose do it together...he just continues on his merry way with everyone else, which makes the first mission frustratingly difficult for a new player.

Also, it seems overally complicated. Like, I like the idea of having bandages stop bleeding and health packs doing something else, but I don't think it works at the end of the day. It just requires far more buttons than ought to be necessary for an engrossing experience. The game could definately stand to have a strong (but could be skipped) tutorial.

Lastly, I'll just say that I think there are too many creatures walking about at all times. Perhaps this is a mod issue since I'm using the highly recommended Oblivion Lost mod, but there are far more creatures wondering about than what I'd consider fun and/or realistic.

I'm still going to give it another shot, though, because I love the atmosphere and the open-world idea of the game.

BlackAlpha666

So you want to run around for hours without finding any monsters or people to kill?

Hours? No, but do I want to constantly be mauled at all times in a game where it's biggest asset is its edgy atmosphere? No- leave that kind of stuff for something like Serious Sam.

as i said before this is all a matter of opinion, which is why im not going to argue this further. but the fact is, most people prefer a game with depth, a fleshed out story, and good gameplay mechanics over a game that just throws tons of enemies at you and gives you tons of guns and ammo.chesterocks7

If anyone else is reading this, do you find the above statement as funny as I do? He just played the subjectivity card, then offered his own personal preference as the arbitrary definition of what good gameplay mechanics are.

if you feel inclined to argue this more, ill make a poll to see what most people prefer. but trying to convince others of your opinion when they feel differently is a hopelessly futile task.

chesterocks7

First you pass your preference off as a universal definition, now you're offering up a majority rule argument. I think you took a wrong turn, System Wars is ----> that way.

[QUOTE="chesterocks7"]

as i said before this is all a matter of opinion, which is why im not going to argue this further. but the fact is, most people prefer a game with depth, a fleshed out story, and good gameplay mechanics over a game that just throws tons of enemies at you and gives you tons of guns and ammo.fatshodan

If anyone else is reading this, do you find the above statement as funny as I do? He just played the subjectivity card, then offered his own personal preference as the arbitrary definition of what good gameplay mechanics are.

if you feel inclined to argue this more, ill make a poll to see what most people prefer. but trying to convince others of your opinion when they feel differently is a hopelessly futile task.

chesterocks7

First you pass your preference off as a universal definition, now you're offering up a majority rule argument. I think you took a wrong turn, System Wars is ----> that way.

the entire time while giving my personal preference, i clearly stated that it was my opinion and that everyone is entitled to their opinion. you seem to overlook my saying that, and in doing so fail in your attempt to boost your argument. i gave my opinion and stated clearly that it was just my opinion. and i will gladly prove to you that the majority of people prefer fleshed out games over mindless shooting games if you really think im just stating my opinion as fact.

as i said before this is all a matter of opinion, which is why im not going to argue this further. but the fact is, most people prefer a game with depth, a fleshed out story, and good gameplay mechanics, over a game that just throws tons of enemies at you and gives you tons of guns and ammo.

chesterocks7

You really have to take into consideration, as obvious as this might be, as to when Doom was released. It was many many years ago before games really developed into something considerable depth and fleshed out stories. It just seems a little absurd to be expecting all those features from a game that is so old.

Imagine if I said for example that Pong was lacking in a protagonist or a proper narrative structure!

I've only played it briefly, but I don't understand what all the fuss is about.

*extremely minor spoilers (just first mission)*

(...)he just continues on his merry way with everyone else, which makes the first mission frustratingly difficult for a new player.

Perhaps this is a mod issue since I'm using the highly recommended Oblivion Lost mod,.

[QUOTE="BlackAlpha666"][QUOTE="Vampyronight"]

I've only played it briefly, but I don't understand what all the fuss is about.

*extremely minor spoilers (just first mission)*

Frankly, the game feels broken to me. For example, in the first mission, you're tasked with rescuing some guy. So another guy tells you to meet up with some of his comrades and you'll attack together. Well, you talk with them and the person you talk to will ask if you want to do it together or go in alone. I choose do it together...he just continues on his merry way with everyone else, which makes the first mission frustratingly difficult for a new player.

Also, it seems overally complicated. Like, I like the idea of having bandages stop bleeding and health packs doing something else, but I don't think it works at the end of the day. It just requires far more buttons than ought to be necessary for an engrossing experience. The game could definately stand to have a strong (but could be skipped) tutorial.

Lastly, I'll just say that I think there are too many creatures walking about at all times. Perhaps this is a mod issue since I'm using the highly recommended Oblivion Lost mod, but there are far more creatures wondering about than what I'd consider fun and/or realistic.

I'm still going to give it another shot, though, because I love the atmosphere and the open-world idea of the game.

Vampyronight

So you want to run around for hours without finding any monsters or people to kill?

Hours? No, but do I want to constantly be mauled at all times in a game where it's biggest asset is its edgy atmosphere? No- leave that kind of stuff for something like Serious Sam.

Personally I think it was just right in STALKER. Not too many monsters and not too few.

the entire time while giving my personal preference, i clearly stated that it was my opinion and that everyone is entitled to their opinion. you seem to overlook my saying that, and in doing so fail in your attempt to boost your argument. i gave my opinion and stated clearly that it was just my opinion.chesterocks7

You're claiming that it's all opinions, yeah? That's great, I agree. Then you say: fact ismost people prefer a game with depth, a fleshed out story and good gameplay mechanics over (and here is where you describe Doom) a game that just throws tons of enemies at you and gives you tons of guns and ammo.

You are quite literally offering you definition of Doom as somehow being factual. I mean, when you say a game that just throws tons of enemies at you and gives you tons of guns and ammo, you could be describing the entire Call of Duty series. I'm pretty sure Call of Duty is a pretty popular series. Pretty sure.

and i will gladly prove to you that the majority of people prefer fleshed out games over mindless shooting games if you really think im just stating my opinion as fact.chesterocks7

I've established several times that almost all FPS games are mindless shooting, and you've not once succinctly established what fleshed out games are.

As for popularity, Doom has been installed on over ten million computers. But, as I've also said several times, what does popularity have to do with quality?

[QUOTE="chesterocks7"]

as i said before this is all a matter of opinion, which is why im not going to argue this further. but the fact is, most people prefer a game with depth, a fleshed out story, and good gameplay mechanics, over a game that just throws tons of enemies at you and gives you tons of guns and ammo.

biggest_loser

You really have to take into consideration, as obvious as this might be, as to when Doom was released. It was many many years ago before games really developed into something considerable depth and fleshed out stories. It just seems a little absurd to be expecting all those features from a game that is so old.

Imagine if I said for example that Pong was lacking in a protagonist or a proper narrative structure!

i am fully aware of that. i never said that doom was a bad game in its time. but for someone to claim that doom is a better game than the games who took what doom did and build upon it and made it better is just ridiculous. doom was the best there was in its time, but to say that it is the best game there is, is like saying that pong is better than virtua tennis 3 because it was the best there was in its time.

[QUOTE="chesterocks7"]the entire time while giving my personal preference, i clearly stated that it was my opinion and that everyone is entitled to their opinion. you seem to overlook my saying that, and in doing so fail in your attempt to boost your argument. i gave my opinion and stated clearly that it was just my opinion.fatshodan

You're claiming that it's all opinions, yeah? That's great, I agree. Then you say: fact ismost people prefer a game with depth, a fleshed out story and good gameplay mechanics over (and here is where you describe Doom) a game that just throws tons of enemies at you and gives you tons of guns and ammo.

You are quite literally offering you definition of Doom as somehow being factual. I mean, when you say a game that just throws tons of enemies at you and gives you tons of guns and ammo, you could be describing the entire Call of Duty series. I'm pretty sure Call of Duty is a pretty popular series. Pretty sure.

and i will gladly prove to you that the majority of people prefer fleshed out games over mindless shooting games if you really think im just stating my opinion as fact.chesterocks7

I've established several times that almost all FPS games are mindless shooting, and you've not once succinctly established what fleshed out games are.

As for popularity, Doom has been installed on over ten million computers. But, as I've also said several times, what does popularity have to do with quality?

i already told you im done arguing this here. if you still feel the need to convince the world of your point of view, make a thread about it and ill be happy to argue it there.

i am fully aware of that. i never said that doom was a bad game in its time. but for someone to claim that doom is a better game than the games who took what doom did and build upon it and made it better is just ridiculous.chesterocks7

See, half of this argument is either because you can't read properly, or because you're not reading my posts. Doom is the best FPS at what it does. It does not do the same things as Half Life, Crysis and the like. Its closest competitors are games like Painkiller and Serious Sam.

I am not comparing Doom with Half Life because it's futile. I have my own personal preference on which is better, but a direct juxtaposition makes no sense at all. They are both FPS games, but they are in entirely different subgenres. You wouldn't compare Battlefield 2 to Half Life 2, would you?

doom was the best there was in its time, but to say that it is the best game there is, is like saying that pong is better than virtua tennis 3 because it was the best there was in its time.chesterocks7

Again, not reading. Doom does something completely different to almost all other FPS games on the market. Very few have actually tried to replicate the core gameplay mechanics of Doom - that being enormous swarms of enemies and utterly insane split section reactions required while circle strafing through crowds of enemies and projectiles.

It's not at all like comparing Virtua Tennis with Pong because the core gameplay mechanics are mostly the same. You clearly have never in your life played Doom on Ultraviolence or Nightmare.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

[QUOTE="chesterocks7"]

i am fully aware of that. i never said that doom was a bad game in its time. but for someone to claim that doom is a better game than the games who took what doom did and build upon it and made it better is just ridiculous.fatshodan

See, half of this argument is either because you can't read properly, or because you're not reading my posts. Doom is the best FPS at what it does. It does not do the same things as Half Life, Crysis and the like. Its closest competitors are games like Painkiller and Serious Sam.

I am not comparing Doom with Half Life because it's futile. I have my own personal preference on which is better, but a direct juxtaposition makes no sense at all. They are both FPS games, but they are in entirely different subgenres. You wouldn't compare Battlefield 2 to Half Life 2, would you?

doom was the best there was in its time, but to say that it is the best game there is, is like saying that pong is better than virtua tennis 3 because it was the best there was in its time.chesterocks7

Again, not reading. Doom does something completely different to almost all other FPS games on the market. Very few have actually tried to replicate the core gameplay mechanics of Doom - that being enormous swarms of enemies and utterly insane split section reactions required while circle strafing through crowds of enemies and projectiles.

It's not at all like comparing Virtua Tennis with Pong because the core gameplay mechanics are mostly the same. You clearly have never in your life played Doom on Ultraviolence or Nightmare.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

i own the entire doom series, but keep on trying to prove your dominance if it really makes you feel better. i really dont care about what you say at this point.

[QUOTE="fatshodan"][QUOTE="chesterocks7"]

i am fully aware of that. i never said that doom was a bad game in its time. but for someone to claim that doom is a better game than the games who took what doom did and build upon it and made it better is just ridiculous.chesterocks7

See, half of this argument is either because you can't read properly, or because you're not reading my posts. Doom is the best FPS at what it does. It does not do the same things as Half Life, Crysis and the like. Its closest competitors are games like Painkiller and Serious Sam.

I am not comparing Doom with Half Life because it's futile. I have my own personal preference on which is better, but a direct juxtaposition makes no sense at all. They are both FPS games, but they are in entirely different subgenres. You wouldn't compare Battlefield 2 to Half Life 2, would you?

doom was the best there was in its time, but to say that it is the best game there is, is like saying that pong is better than virtua tennis 3 because it was the best there was in its time.chesterocks7

Again, not reading. Doom does something completely different to almost all other FPS games on the market. Very few have actually tried to replicate the core gameplay mechanics of Doom - that being enormous swarms of enemies and utterly insane split section reactions required while circle strafing through crowds of enemies and projectiles.

It's not at all like comparing Virtua Tennis with Pong because the core gameplay mechanics are mostly the same. You clearly have never in your life played Doom on Ultraviolence or Nightmare.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

i own the entire doom series, but keep on trying to prove your dominance if it really makes you feel better. i really dont care about what you say at this point.

As I said, never played Doom on Ultraviolence or Nightmare. I seriously doubt you have, because Doom is nothing at all like most other FPS games - and it was actually my belief that Doom is the best at what it does, but what it does is very different to games like Half Life that got you started in the first place.

But whatever. Feel free to start an argument with me some other time, get argued down, back out and turn it into a supposed alpha male trip in a vain attempt to convince yourself that you somehow managed something.

I'm looking forward to it.

But whatever. Feel free to start an argument with me some other time, get argued down, back out and turn it into a supposed alpha male trip in a vain attempt to convince yourself that you somehow managed something.fatshodan

LMAO. im not the only one who fits that description. sticks and stones my friend.