Fewer Sony Exclusives.....so what?

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snyper1982

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#101 snyper1982
Member since 2004 • 3407 Posts
[QUOTE="perfect-dank-0"]

[QUOTE="eclipsed4utoo"][QUOTE="ghaleon0721"][QUOTE="hunter8man"]It's not the fact that they are losing exclusives, it's the fact of paying $600 for a system just to play a game on that is now available on a cheaper system with not much difference between the two.eclipsed4utoo

I repeat...Online..community...Innovation...integration...longevity. This generation's console war will be decided by hardware, not software.

now that's just stupid. SOFTWARE is what sales a system.

What good is hardware when there is no software?

And ps3 has inferior hardware from a developers point of view.

The games are what sell systems. Period.

actually, many developers state that the PS3 is more powerful and they are looking forward to the potential. more powerful = superior. and why did you quote me and post as though I said HARDWARE was the seller? I didn't say that.

More power that is almost like not having more power to third party developers, who are not going to put in the extra time it takes to harness that extra power....
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Hulabaloza

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#102 Hulabaloza
Member since 2005 • 1322 Posts
So, New0001, what would it take to turn it around for the ol' PS3?Eman5805
Drop blu-ray and get a SKU under $300. Take the hit, re-release all the past games on DVD, so new purchasers don't lose out. Go to drastic measures (cut all licensing fees) for all PS2/PS3 games from a publisher in order to get timed exclusives for Christmas 2007 (to at least March......they have to get through this Chrismast to be at all competitive). Do all that without displaying panic.....and the PS3 can still compete. Otherwise it's just fighting for survival.
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ghaleon0721

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#103 ghaleon0721
Member since 2003 • 338 Posts
Finally, this thread seems to have taken a more intelligent and analytical turn. It still seems that we are in agreement that the PS1 beat the N64 because the hardware was better for developers which in turn led to better software. But it all began with the hardware. I will concede that the PS2 vs Xbox debate is probably not relevant since it was MS's first console and it came later and it was not designed to overthrow Sony, but to poise MS as a legitimate player in the marketplace. However, you cannot deny, that as both systems' lives wore on, Microsoft NEVER gained ground on Sony and only a miniscule amount of former Sony exclusives migrated to the Xbox. The best selling system, right now, today, March 20, 2007 is the PS2. In this generation, I agree that Sony losing exclusives is a defeat for Sony and a victory for MS. Though for me, the average gamer, I don't care. I still get the games I want on my PS3. If for some reason a Sony exclusive, or great multi-platform suddenly becomes a MS exclusive, that is when I panic. And even then, I would want to know why the exclusive was lost. Microsoft buying the developer doesn't really constitute a victory in my eyes. It is my opinion and my belief that the PS3 is, as Sony promised, poised to supply a top quality gaming and media experience for the next 10 years. I just don't see how MS can make the same claim. It is my OPINION that the Xbox 360 is nothing more than a suped up Xbox. While the PS3 offers next-gen movies, photo and video integration, free online, and motion sensitive controllers. To me, The xbox 360 represents GROWTH, while the PS3 represents EVOLUTION. Therefore, I believe that the PS3 will outlast the Xbox 360. I can almost garauntee that the Xbox 720 (or whatever it will be called) will hit the market WELL before the PS4. I am predicting that MS will have an even larger head start the next time around. You almost get the sense that the 360 has already, or will soon, hit its peak. While, by the same token, the PS3 is blazing full speed ahead. And to the guy who said that the 360 has MORE exclusives than the PS3....where is the list?
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snyper1982

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#104 snyper1982
Member since 2004 • 3407 Posts

right now all people wanting an xbox360 have bought one but only 10% people wanting a ps3 have had a chance to buy it..for eg people in europe, people who cant afford one yet, people who believe in buying consoles after the console has settled...

people who will buy only one console, (like me) wont be concerened about the exclusives going multiplat if good games continue to come for ps3......i never liked halo. and bioshock, mass efect,... games will be good but they are shooters and they are coming on pc too. By the end of 2007 bluray will have appeared victorious and then people choosing between consoles will cosider ps3 for its high end value.

vaibhav-ahlawat
Really? Everyone who wants a 360 has got one? Is that why the 360 sold twice as many as the PS3 last month?
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bluntiss

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#105 bluntiss
Member since 2005 • 462 Posts
Your logic makes no sense.
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eclipsed4utoo

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#106 eclipsed4utoo
Member since 2006 • 10578 Posts
[QUOTE="eclipsed4utoo"][QUOTE="perfect-dank-0"]

You can look at some of my previous posts and you'll see that I predicted dmc4 and mgs4 will go multiplat.

I don't wanna bash ps3 or anything but sony doesn't seem to care to much about their exclusives anymore and that was why the ps2 was so great.

snyper1982
MGS4 is still a PS3 exclusive.

So was DMC4....

so wait, you will stand by your statement that "SC5 is exclusive because there have been no announcements otherwise" but then you are going to group MSG4 in with DMC4? having your cake and eating it too?
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snyper1982

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#107 snyper1982
Member since 2004 • 3407 Posts

[QUOTE="ghaleon0721"]I never denied it. I've been around games long enough to know that. HOWEVER.....in this case, the software argument is moot since we are talking about exclusive games going multi-platform. That means NEITHER system has a software advantage.Sigil-otaku

To be brief, you're right, but what you are not acknowledging is that although it is not a literal advantage for either console to be in possession of the same game, it is an advantage to Microsoft to have gained the game, and it is a disadvantage to Sony to have lost its exclusivity (whether it is a loss to gamer's in general, however, is a more complicated matter). As such, many take it as a net gain for the Xbox 360, and a net loss for the PS3, which it is. Symbolically, this is presumed to show the decreasing stock of the PS3 in the console war (though only in a major way if taken in conjunction with the loss of other exclusives such as Grand Theft Auto, Resident Evil, Virtua Fighter and Assassin's Creed).

The point is not moot.

Exactly. It is a zero sum game. Sony's loss is MS's gain.
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rogerjak

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#108 rogerjak
Member since 2004 • 14950 Posts
[QUOTE="perfect-dank-0"]

You can look at some of my previous posts and you'll see that I predicted dmc4 and mgs4 will go multiplat.

I don't wanna bash ps3 or anything but sony doesn't seem to care to much about their exclusives anymore and that was why the ps2 was so great.

eclipsed4utoo
MGS4 is still a PS3 exclusive.

Thanks for clearing that for me! I was getting scared :s
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ghaleon0721

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#109 ghaleon0721
Member since 2003 • 338 Posts
[QUOTE="vaibhav-ahlawat"]

right now all people wanting an xbox360 have bought one but only 10% people wanting a ps3 have had a chance to buy it..for eg people in europe, people who cant afford one yet, people who believe in buying consoles after the console has settled...

people who will buy only one console, (like me) wont be concerened about the exclusives going multiplat if good games continue to come for ps3......i never liked halo. and bioshock, mass efect,... games will be good but they are shooters and they are coming on pc too. By the end of 2007 bluray will have appeared victorious and then people choosing between consoles will cosider ps3 for its high end value.

snyper1982
Really? Everyone who wants a 360 has got one? Is that why the 360 sold twice as many as the PS3 last month?

Yeah but which system sold more in its fourth month since launch?
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New0001

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#110 New0001
Member since 2007 • 25 Posts
So, New0001, what would it take to turn it around for the ol' PS3?Eman5805
There is no one thing but there has to be a collection of things. I don't doubt that the PS3 will get a hold of the market share and will make progress but there is no way I can see, based on the facts of today and the forseeable future, Sony beating Microsoft. Japan is a small country compared to the US, etc so them beating Microsoft there is not the deciding factor. Whatever they do must be something that paved the way for the future of gaming and future Sony brands. The incentives must outweigh other systems just like it did for the NES, PS1, PS2, Gameboy, DS, etc. Of course this is if we are talking about Sony keeping the crown, which at this point is being secured by Microsoft.
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eclipsed4utoo

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#111 eclipsed4utoo
Member since 2006 • 10578 Posts
[QUOTE="eclipsed4utoo"][QUOTE="perfect-dank-0"]

[QUOTE="eclipsed4utoo"][QUOTE="ghaleon0721"][QUOTE="hunter8man"]It's not the fact that they are losing exclusives, it's the fact of paying $600 for a system just to play a game on that is now available on a cheaper system with not much difference between the two.snyper1982

I repeat...Online..community...Innovation...integration...longevity. This generation's console war will be decided by hardware, not software.

now that's just stupid. SOFTWARE is what sales a system.

What good is hardware when there is no software?

And ps3 has inferior hardware from a developers point of view.

The games are what sell systems. Period.

actually, many developers state that the PS3 is more powerful and they are looking forward to the potential. more powerful = superior. and why did you quote me and post as though I said HARDWARE was the seller? I didn't say that.

More power that is almost like not having more power to third party developers, who are not going to put in the extra time it takes to harness that extra power....

is that why Activision(I believe it was Activision) had a conference with IBM to help them better harness the power of the CELL processor? sounds like one third party developer is "putting in the extra time".
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eclipsed4utoo

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#112 eclipsed4utoo
Member since 2006 • 10578 Posts
[QUOTE="eclipsed4utoo"][QUOTE="Sigil-otaku"]

[QUOTE="eclipsed4utoo"][QUOTE="Hulabaloza"] [QUOTE="ghaleon0721"][QUOTE="Hulabaloza"]

The 360's advantage is that the Core can match the Wii in price, it has all NEXT GEN games and the Premium models can match the PS3 features, with all its games + Halo, for hundreds less. Do you see why it's positioned so well?snyper1982

Anyone who believes that the 360 is the better deal because of the lower price needs a head x-ray. There are so many periphereals and add-on services to buy that it's ridiculous. I remember the thread on here about the guy who spent $200 on services and periphereals just to play lost planet. Online play, a 60GB hard drive, blu-ray player, etc, all come straight out of the box with the PS3. If you try to match the Xbox 360 feature for feature with the PS3, you'll spend enough money on extras to make the prices almost equal.

The 360 is going to have all new SKU's this year, and it will line up clearly against the Wii and against the PS3. And price cuts. Just watch. Regardless....Even as it currently sells, the 360 sold twice as many as the PS3 did last month alone.....so alot of people will need to have their head examined.

do you think it's a great thing that Microsoft is releasing an "upgraded" 360 only after a year? what does this say about the original 360?

Not much. They release new televisions all the time, what does that say about yours? Not much. All it says is that it could be better, and the PS3 could as well, because if the 360 were released with HDMI and a 120GB hard drive, it would have a larger hard drive than the PS3 and games wouldn't have to be installed on it for the load times to be reasonable. I'm not criticising the PS3, but I don't think it says much about the original 360. I will say that it would make me angry though, because yes, the original 360s hard drive was too small and too expensive, it's lack of HDMI may also be a problem for some people, but I wait so how big a problem because I don't understand what it's all about.

comparing TVs and game consoles is stupid. TVs are suppose to come out every 6 months(or sooner). So are PCs. Game Consoles are suppose to be different because you don't have to upgrade them over time. That's one arguement on why console gaming is better than PC gaming. because consoles don't have to be updated to have great gameplay/graphics....unlike PCs. TVs are suppose to come out all the time.

When you buy a TV it is supposed to last you as well.... So why does it matter that better ones are continually coming out? Are you tired today or something, because you are usually much smarter than this....

when you buy a TV, you know that a newer one is going to be coming out soon. That is the nature of the TV market. When I bought my 360 in January of last year, I had no idea Microsoft would be releasing an upgraded model only after a year, because console makers don't do that. But here I am with my 360, and I have HDMI and I want a bigger HDD. looks like I will be forking out more money for the upgraded 360. do you think that if everybody who has complained about Microsoft not having HDMI, if they knew that Microsoft was going to be releasing an upgraded 360 with HDMI after a year, do you think they would have bought the 360 at launch? I don't think so. I think they would have waited.
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bluntiss

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#113 bluntiss
Member since 2005 • 462 Posts
People saying that sony is a better machine and will win because of it's power need to take a lesson with last gen.  Xbox was far more superior in any way than ps2.  As we all learned, power has nothing to do with it, It's not the power the machine can handle, it's all about the titiles.  and for those sayting 360 has only shooters, you are way wrong.  MS has made it quite clear that they are going to be creating and paying off companies to bring rpg's to 360.  They aren't focusing stricly on shooters anymore, though, it is still a very important aspect in the NA and Euro market.  MS has a strategy, can't say the same for ps3, they don't seem to really care about their exclusives and depending on their name alone.  It's too bad, Sony has always been a good brand name, lately they've ruined a lot of that.   Not just talking about consoles, but with everything, from TV's, DVD players, Labtops etc.   All their focus seems to be on Hollywood.  The Prez of Sony even said that he doesn't know what's going wrong with playstation.  So, you're not only hearing it from me, as well as what you call "Fanboys"  but you're hearing it from the prez of Sony.  That's that, nuff said
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ikki1749

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#114 ikki1749
Member since 2006 • 25 Posts
Devil May Cry 4.. now on the 360. Ok ,sure, ps3 owners will get the game- we all know that's not the point. To be honest, I was planning on getting a ps3 this week.. now, not so much. I'm losing faith in the Playstation Brand, and it0s not because I hate seeing exclusives go to another platform, it's as some of you have said- what can a more expensive console offer? And who reaally cares if Sony is screwing up because they're arrogant, ti doesn't matter. The fact is, they're screwing up. Whatever reason they have doesn't certainly justify or even answer the gamer's doubts. Guess I´ll have to wait a year or two to really decide which console I´m getting.. For now, my playstation 2 works fine.
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New0001

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#115 New0001
Member since 2007 • 25 Posts

It is my opinion and my belief that the PS3 is, as Sony promised

I do agree that the PS3 was designed with the long run in mind but that is unrealistic. The hardware is already out dated so 10 years from now I can't imagine the PS3 lasting that long. Regardless of how good it is or how good it becomes the competition will always force their hand and they will eventually have to design and implement a PS4 long before that time. The history of gaming states that every 5 years, give or take, a successor is born. There is no reason to believe the PS4, if Sony makes one, will not be released at the most around the 6th year. The competition will force it (indirectly) eventually. Just like the Dreamcast indirectly lead to the birth of the PS2 and GameCube. This would have happened anyway but the birth of the Dreamcast was the catalst for it to happen when it did. You don't spend millions if not billions on a new product if the current one is doing just fine and will be for quite a while unless you have to. R&D is one thing.
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snyper1982

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#116 snyper1982
Member since 2004 • 3407 Posts

Sorry for the long post but I have to say something since most fan boys continue to delude themselves, make excuses, and be hypercritical.

It is funny how many people here have no idea of what they are talking about. It is even funnier how fan boys are bringing up the most irrelevant topics for reasons why a system will do good or not.

First of all anyone that says hardware is what wins console races obliviously does not know the history of video games and, most likely, do not remember life before their PS2. Software have and will always determine console race winners. Anything else makes no logical sense.

Stop bringing up the dreamcast because Sega lost that small battle for totally different reasons than what is being brought up in this forms. And Sega having a head start and still losing isn't because having a head start doesn't matter, because it does, but instead they lost because of the environment, lack of developer support, etc of its time. There is no way a Dreamcast, selling the numbers it was, was going to hold its own against the PS2, XBOX, and GameCube. Of course it retrospect we can say the GameCube wasn't much of a threat to any console but at the time that wasn't fact since the successor to the N64, in itself, had a lot of promise when the console was first announced. Sega bailing out when they did was the only real move they could have made without losing millions of dollars trying to compete against three other highly anticipated and hyped consoles.

Secondly the PS1 is basically Super Nintendo CD before Nintendo bailed on Sony (they were partners at the time to create a new CD system) and Sony decided to go it on their own since they owned the format and the technology was there. The PS1 won the battle between the N64, Saturn, Jaguar, etc because they had third-party developer support that far surpassed the other systems. THE NUMBER 1 REASON FOR THIS WAS COST AND INSTALL BASE. As the PS1 gained in install base so did its developer support, which also gained for other reasons like cost (as in cost per disk not development cost). The PS1 out beat the N64 simply because the N64 cost $28 (give or take) US dollars to produce one single cart vs a CD which was, at the time, around $2-$4 dollars. I'm not sure how many of you have any math knowledge but with numbers like that you could sell literally a fraction of games on the PS1 and still make the same or more money than with the N64. Same with the music industry in that independent artist can make more money and sell less albums than they with a major label.

The Sega Saturn was a move powerful system but lost because it had extremely little developer support. No one will buy a system if there are barely any, if any, games to be played on it. THIS TRUTH can be seen throughout the history of video games. The PS3 is more expensive and does not have the strongest support both by companies and by many personal developer opinions and yet PS3 fan boys want to argue that a few games can actually sell the 100 million world-wide consoles Sony is aiming for. That makes no sense. It doesn't matter if the PS3 has a few exclusives because those few do not outweigh the incentives the 360 offer.

The PS1 was the weakest (technically speaking of course) out of all systems in its generation but it won because it has developer support that surpassed the competition. BOTTOM LINE. You can twist whatever wishful thinking you want but no one game won it for the PS1 but a lot of games. The first XBOX was Microsoft's way to get a market share, which they not only did but they did better than what they expected to do. Anyone bringing up the fact that the XBOX didn't sell as many as the PS2 and therefore wasn't a player is fooling themselves. The XBOX's purpose was not to take the number one spot worldwide but to allow Microsoft to move into a position where they can take over with successors. If you look deep into the XBOX 360 outside of personal opinion you will see that the 360 is the better console. Not only that, but Microsoft has moved it, Vista, Live, XNA, and other technologies into a position that will basically ensure that Microsoft will have the thrown. Looking into the long run based on FACTS will show this to be not even a maybe but a truth. Of course Sony can do things to change this but the FACTS of today, and not the "I think the PS3 will win because I like Playstation", means that dramatic things will have to happen on both fronts to allow Sony to keep the crown. This of course would be extremely unlikely with the strategy Microsoft has publicly, and I would bet privately, have laid out for the 360 and other technologies. At this point if Sony does make a meaningful play for the crown then Microsoft is in a position to match it. Microsoft had the money to burn in the experiment known as the XBOX. A lot was gained form the multi-billion lost from the XBOX 1 as they are playing for the long run.

The PS2 won because that same developer support carried over from the PS1, plus the DVD feature sold it. This is FACT because, and you can look it up, the number of systems sold vs. games sold at the launch of the PS2 in Japan and the US showed that people were buying it as a DVD player and not a game system. Plus Ebay selling helped. The DVD was established enough to make it a feature that alone sold many systems vs. games but Blu-ray is not at that point, nor is HD-DVD, and according to analyst (which you can google) they won't be until near the end or possibly even after the life-span of the PS3 and 360.

The GameCube LOST because it did not have developer support, which didn't help since any developers' biggest competition on a Nintendo system is Nintendo.

Anyone that makes the argument that the cost of the system has no factor because the GameCube lost but was cheaper makes no sense. It doesn't matter how much the system is if there is relatively no games anyone wants to play on it, thus no one will buy it. I remember a while back when KB-Toys were selling Jaguars for like $50 dollars and I still didn't buy it because I couldn't think of one game I wanted to play on it. Now if the system does have many great games AND is cheaper then the story is different! It is called a domino affect and when things stack up they can make or break a system's success rate.

Plus when it comes to Nintendo most of the games that appeared on that system didn't interest hardcore and older games, which make up 90% of game buyers and have for the last few generations (again you can Google this since it is easy to find many figures and ratios on this that was proved by various studies). Wii on the other hand will not be as plagued, if even at all, by this since the innovations, experience, and cost offered by the Wii will make this negligible, which is already proven since it is King of Japan right now.

Sony fan boys are known for making excuses and being hypocritical. The reasons why the PS1 and PS2 had dominance do not exist for the PS3 at this or the foreseeable future. You can't say give the PS3 a year because the 360 and Wii install base will continue to grow at great numbers. The only way for the PS3 to catch up will be for either people to get over the reasons why not to buy the system and to just invest in it anyway (and to buy games in decent numbers now) or if the incentives to buy the system outweigh any other console by A GREAT DEAL!

If games are going multi-platform that DOES HURT because incentive, in that area, is decreasing for the PS3. It does not matter how many 360 games go to the PS3 because:

A) It disproves a lot of myths about the PS3 being superior if it is being used to play 360 games

B) Has no affect on 360 since the winning feature for the vast majority of its games is its community and online experience

C) Going from 360 to the more expensive and, at this time, overall less attractive PS3 is not an incentive to buy a PS3

D) Acts as an incentive to buy a 360 for reasons that will make this post twice as long (i.e. the disadvantage of C for Sony is an advantage for Microsoft)

It is also funny how many people have no idea of game development. Stop saying give developers time to figure out the system. All that means is to allow them to find hacks, work-around, etc so that they can actually make something out of Sony's complex design other than what we've seen. Complex meaning complex not powerful, not superior, but complex, which in today's world is unnecessary to have complexity for the sake of complexity. Not to say that is what Sony did but the end result is a system that is much more difficult to develop for. The PC can have games that surpass what the PS3 can do TODAY. Not because developers need to educate themselves on doing techniques that, although might seem new to average non-technical gamers, are actually not by a long shot. Gears of War would be hard to do, or in the words of Cliffy B impossible, on the PS3 because the tricks, work-arounds, etc that would be required to make that game on the PS3 would be so complicated, assuming if possible, that the payoff would not even be worth it. That is what John Carmack argued and that is fact. You can research their, and other developers, interviews and opinions yourself. These are professional developers and not fan boys so their words have more weight than what is posted in forums like this.

Oh and I know someone will say then why are the PC games not pwning the PS3 by leaps and bounds. Simply put PC developers have to work around a lot of factors, with the number 1 (related to this arugment) being the average consumers hardware. They can't make games for the most powerful (or even PCS semi-powerful) of PCs because only a small fraction of users with those kinds of machines exist, which is even smaller for those that use their machines for something other than work, research, etc. Not everyone upgrades anywhere remotely near as fast as they can, so this is a factor.

And stop looking at the PS2 vs. XBOX as a reason why the PS3 will win because that battle was extremely different. Again for reasons already pointed out and even more reasons that will make this post 4 times larger.

And even if the PS3 is, from a tech spec perspective more powerful, that difference is so negligible that I am surprised people think they can even use it as an excuse to why the PS3 is better. If you where comparing the PS3 vs. the Dreamcast then yes there is enough of a difference in the quality and advancement of games that can be played. If you were talking about the PS3 vs. the XBOX then yes that fact can be brought up. But the PS3 vs. the XBOX 360...don't kid yourself. A few Mhz here or there (plus other meaningless differences) will not change the quality of the games that can be made on the PS3 vs. the 360. THAT IS WHY the PS3 has not lived up to the hype not because developers need more time to figure out ways around the complexity just so they can MAYBE do a Gears of War on it. The PS3 has not pwned the 360 because it technically can't. Even if a few figures are slightly higher in some areas (but far from all), the fact remains that those differences in the world of real-time applications mean nothing. I remember when Sony hyped the PS2 by releasing figures and stats that were so meaningless to game development that it was almost funny. If the processing that can be done means not rendering anything to the screen, no AI, no physics, no game-play, etc and deal with what boils down to floating-point operations on polygons that are not rendered then that MEANS NOTHING TO GAMES.

Sorry for making this so long. I just get tired of seeing forums like this without saying something. Also I am NOT a PS3 hater. I own a PS3, actually I own and collect ever game system ever released and I don't dislike Sony at all. This post is not my naïve opinion but the state of the PS3 vs. 360 using FACTS.

New0001
And a very nice and informed opinion as well. I would only disagree with one thing. 360 games going to PS3 do hurt the 360, because it is zero sum.
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treelog187

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#117 treelog187
Member since 2005 • 2111 Posts

Anybody who still thinks MGS4 is going to 360 is retarded. How many times does Konami and more importantly Kojima have to tell you NO!

Kojima already needs a 50gig blu-ray for the game. He already stated the Octo-cam which is a main visual feature, will be impossible to recreate on the 360. The physics and AI processing are being custom built around the Cell, and have already been dubbed impossible on the 360.

On top of all this Kojima said specifically he we never do ports or remakes again. He wants to build games that cater to the systems specific userbase and use the specific system to its fullest.

I expect 360 to get one bad ass FPS from Kojima Productions in the future. I expect the Wii to get something along the lines of a new platformer. MGS4 is for his fans that stuck with him through the PS, PS2, and now the PS3. Thats directly from the man himself. Plus the fact that after MGS4 he is dying to work on new games that hes been thinking about for years. Meaning he would not waste the time to make a port that wont be as good, or sell as well as the original.

I almost forgot to mention that Sony is giving Kojima Productions tons of technical and financial support. So in a way Kojima is playing in there pocket right now.

So even if in some fantasy world MGS4 ends up on 360, do you really want to wait a year after the original release to play a completely dumbed down 5 disc set of MGS4?

Also the majority of what is said here also goes for the guys at Square Enix. Sure they will make games for other systems, just not Final Fantasy.

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bluntiss

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#118 bluntiss
Member since 2005 • 462 Posts
Somebody just said that developers are happy with ps3???   That's a big NO, Developers hate working on the ps3 because it's cost and it's unuser friendly programming.  What are you talking.   Do you even read anything that comes on this website?????
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eclipsed4utoo

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#119 eclipsed4utoo
Member since 2006 • 10578 Posts

It is my opinion and my belief that the PS3 is, as Sony promisedNew0001

I do agree that the PS3 was designed with the long run in mind but that is unrealistic. The hardware is already out dated so 10 years from now I can't imagine the PS3 lasting that long. Regardless of how good it is or how good it becomes the competition will always force their hand and they will eventually have to design and implement a PS4 long before that time. The history of gaming states that every 5 years, give or take, a successor is born. There is no reason to believe the PS4, if Sony makes one, will not be released at the most around the 6th year. The competition will force it (indirectly) eventually. Just like the Dreamcast indirectly lead to the birth of the PS2 and GameCube. This would have happened anyway but the birth of the Dreamcast was the catalst for it to happen when it did. You don't spend millions if not billions on a new product if the current one is doing just fine and will be for quite a while unless you have to. R&D is one thing.

Sony says the PS3 will LAST 10 years. they did not say, "we are not releasing another console for 10 years". Look at the PS2, it has lasted for 7 years. The PS1 lasted for 8 years. and no, the CELL processor is not outdated.
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eclipsed4utoo

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#120 eclipsed4utoo
Member since 2006 • 10578 Posts
Somebody just said that developers are happy with ps3??? That's a big NO, Developers hate working on the ps3 because it's cost and it's unuser friendly programming. What are you talking. Do you even read anything that comes on this website?????bluntiss
Actually, I don't read anything from this website. I read articles from about 5-7 different websites excluding this one. I will never read an article from Gamespot. and you should hit the quote button if you want to reply to a specific post. PS....8000th post...Woot Woot
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ghaleon0721

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#121 ghaleon0721
Member since 2003 • 338 Posts
For those of you who are saying that Sony is screwing up......what do you mean? What is Sony supposed to do about losing its 3rd party exclusives. All Sony did was put out a superior machine at a FAIR price. They're only selling FASTER (not more, yet) than the competition. All that's left is to PAY for exclusives. If you were a developer, how much would it cost for you to ignore 5+ million 360 gamers (and growing)? No Game - Including FF and MGS - is worth that price.
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eclipsed4utoo

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#122 eclipsed4utoo
Member since 2006 • 10578 Posts
[QUOTE="ghaleon0721"]For those of you who are saying that Sony is screwing up......what do you mean? What is Sony supposed to do about losing its 3rd party exclusives. All Sony did was put out a superior machine at a FAIR price. They're only selling FASTER (not more, yet) than the competition. All that's left is to PAY for exclusives. If you were a developer, how much would it cost for you to ignore 5+ million 360 gamers (and growing)? No Game - Including FF and MGS - is worth that price.

the 360 has sold more than 10 million worldwide.
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Hulabaloza

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#123 Hulabaloza
Member since 2005 • 1322 Posts

Anybody who still thinks MGS4 is going to 360 is retarded. How many times does Konami and more importantly Kojima have to tell you NO!

....treelog187

Right now it's not multiplatform, true. We really don't know.

I am aware of some recent internal polling that Microsoft did though. It was a poll targetted to gamers and specifically  referring to MGS 4, by name (it was the only game mentioned) and how it's appearance on the XBOX 360 would alter their opinion on the console.   It came out in the last couple months. 

 IMO....I look at this as 100% certainty that they have a deal from Konami on the table. It's 50/50 if the results of the poll told them to sign it and then who knows if the deal was exclusivity or just pushing the game multiplatform. GIven everything else I've seen....I put the odds of MGS on the 360 as greater than 75%. For the record, I hate MGS. i'm just telling you what I saw.

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#124 zetius12
Member since 2004 • 25 Posts
[QUOTE="ghaleon0721"]Finally, this thread seems to have taken a more intelligent and analytical turn. It still seems that we are in agreement that the PS1 beat the N64 because the hardware was better for developers which in turn led to better software. But it all began with the hardware. I will concede that the PS2 vs Xbox debate is probably not relevant since it was MS's first console and it came later and it was not designed to overthrow Sony, but to poise MS as a legitimate player in the marketplace. However, you cannot deny, that as both systems' lives wore on, Microsoft NEVER gained ground on Sony and only a miniscule amount of former Sony exclusives migrated to the Xbox. The best selling system, right now, today, March 20, 2007 is the PS2. In this generation, I agree that Sony losing exclusives is a defeat for Sony and a victory for MS. Though for me, the average gamer, I don't care. I still get the games I want on my PS3. If for some reason a Sony exclusive, or great multi-platform suddenly becomes a MS exclusive, that is when I panic. And even then, I would want to know why the exclusive was lost. Microsoft buying the developer doesn't really constitute a victory in my eyes. It is my opinion and my belief that the PS3 is, as Sony promised, poised to supply a top quality gaming and media experience for the next 10 years. I just don't see how MS can make the same claim. It is my OPINION that the Xbox 360 is nothing more than a suped up Xbox. While the PS3 offers next-gen movies, photo and video integration, free online, and motion sensitive controllers. To me, The xbox 360 represents GROWTH, while the PS3 represents EVOLUTION. Therefore, I believe that the PS3 will outlast the Xbox 360. I can almost garauntee that the Xbox 720 (or whatever it will be called) will hit the market WELL before the PS4. I am predicting that MS will have an even larger head start the next time around. You almost get the sense that the 360 has already, or will soon, hit its peak. While, by the same token, the PS3 is blazing full speed ahead. And to the guy who said that the 360 has MORE exclusives than the PS3....where is the list?

Crackdown Too Human Alan Wake Halo 3 Bioshock Fable 2 Mass Effect Shadowrun Kane & Lynch: Dead Men Kingdom Under Fire: Circle of Doom Splinter Cell 5 Peter Jackson's Halo Project Crossfire Marvel Universe Online Halo Wars Forza Motorsport 2 Banjo-Kazooie Hour of Victory Left 4 Dead Lost Odyssey Age of Conan: Hyborian Adventures Project Gotham Racing 4 Dead or Alive 5 New Ninja Gaiden The Crossing Gears of War Dead Rising Lost planet Condemned: Criminal Origins prey Perfect Dark zero Graw Call of Duty 2 and on and on.....
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snyper1982

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#125 snyper1982
Member since 2004 • 3407 Posts
[QUOTE="ghaleon0721"]Finally, this thread seems to have taken a more intelligent and analytical turn. It still seems that we are in agreement that the PS1 beat the N64 because the hardware was better for developers which in turn led to better software. But it all began with the hardware. I will concede that the PS2 vs Xbox debate is probably not relevant since it was MS's first console and it came later and it was not designed to overthrow Sony, but to poise MS as a legitimate player in the marketplace. However, you cannot deny, that as both systems' lives wore on, Microsoft NEVER gained ground on Sony and only a miniscule amount of former Sony exclusives migrated to the Xbox. The best selling system, right now, today, March 20, 2007 is the PS2. In this generation, I agree that Sony losing exclusives is a defeat for Sony and a victory for MS. Though for me, the average gamer, I don't care. I still get the games I want on my PS3. If for some reason a Sony exclusive, or great multi-platform suddenly becomes a MS exclusive, that is when I panic. And even then, I would want to know why the exclusive was lost. Microsoft buying the developer doesn't really constitute a victory in my eyes. It is my opinion and my belief that the PS3 is, as Sony promised, poised to supply a top quality gaming and media experience for the next 10 years. I just don't see how MS can make the same claim. It is my OPINION that the Xbox 360 is nothing more than a suped up Xbox. While the PS3 offers next-gen movies, photo and video integration, free online, and motion sensitive controllers. To me, The xbox 360 represents GROWTH, while the PS3 represents EVOLUTION. Therefore, I believe that the PS3 will outlast the Xbox 360. I can almost garauntee that the Xbox 720 (or whatever it will be called) will hit the market WELL before the PS4. I am predicting that MS will have an even larger head start the next time around. You almost get the sense that the 360 has already, or will soon, hit its peak. While, by the same token, the PS3 is blazing full speed ahead. And to the guy who said that the 360 has MORE exclusives than the PS3....where is the list?

Blazing full speed ahead while being outsold 2x by the 360.... If that is the PS3 blazing full speed ahead, I hate to see what the future holds for it. The 360 is still about 1.5 years away from it's peak IMO. I am thinking Christmas season 08 is the exact time it will sale the most consoles in it's entire lifespan.
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ghaleon0721

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#126 ghaleon0721
Member since 2003 • 338 Posts

It is my opinion and my belief that the PS3 is, as Sony promisedNew0001

I do agree that the PS3 was designed with the long run in mind but that is unrealistic. The hardware is already out dated so 10 years from now I can't imagine the PS3 lasting that long. Regardless of how good it is or how good it becomes the competition will always force their hand and they will eventually have to design and implement a PS4 long before that time. The history of gaming states that every 5 years, give or take, a successor is born. There is no reason to believe the PS4, if Sony makes one, will not be released at the most around the 6th year. The competition will force it (indirectly) eventually. Just like the Dreamcast indirectly lead to the birth of the PS2 and GameCube. This would have happened anyway but the birth of the Dreamcast was the catalst for it to happen when it did. You don't spend millions if not billions on a new product if the current one is doing just fine and will be for quite a while unless you have to. R&D is one thing.

No, you're wrong. The PS3 will last because of the cost. People are already griping about the $600. There is no way a PS4 will be released that is a full generation ahead of the PS3 before the cost can be controlled. A PS4 6 years from now will probably retail for $1000. I'm just pulling numbers out of the air here, but that is my guess. That is why the $600 price tag on the PS3 is a fair price. You're partly right, the PS3 came out when it did because the 360 "forced" Sony's hand. Don't you think that Sony would have preferred to milk one more year out of the PS2 (which it could have easily done) and then release a more cost effective PS3? Sure they would have preferred that, but they had to keep up. So they built this expensive system with longevity in mind. Developers aren't even close to using its full potential which means that it will feel like the system is progressing as the years wear on.
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snyper1982

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#127 snyper1982
Member since 2004 • 3407 Posts
[QUOTE="snyper1982"][QUOTE="eclipsed4utoo"][QUOTE="perfect-dank-0"]

You can look at some of my previous posts and you'll see that I predicted dmc4 and mgs4 will go multiplat.

I don't wanna bash ps3 or anything but sony doesn't seem to care to much about their exclusives anymore and that was why the ps2 was so great.

eclipsed4utoo
MGS4 is still a PS3 exclusive.

So was DMC4....

so wait, you will stand by your statement that "SC5 is exclusive because there have been no announcements otherwise" but then you are going to group MSG4 in with DMC4? having your cake and eating it too?

I also said that coul very well change didn't I? Oh yeah, I did.
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#128 ghaleon0721
Member since 2003 • 338 Posts
[QUOTE="eclipsed4utoo"][QUOTE="ghaleon0721"]For those of you who are saying that Sony is screwing up......what do you mean? What is Sony supposed to do about losing its 3rd party exclusives. All Sony did was put out a superior machine at a FAIR price. They're only selling FASTER (not more, yet) than the competition. All that's left is to PAY for exclusives. If you were a developer, how much would it cost for you to ignore 5+ million 360 gamers (and growing)? No Game - Including FF and MGS - is worth that price.

the 360 has sold more than 10 million worldwide.

10 million huh? Ok...so then I guess I'm doubly right
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#129 New0001
Member since 2007 • 25 Posts

For all you fan boys bringing up the same things, which are either not true or meaningless, should read my first post on page 5.  The PS3 is not dead or will it be but there is nothing in terms of facts that states that it will beat the 360 today or in the forseeable future.  It doesn't matter if Sony wanted the PS3 to survive 10 years if the hardware, TODAY, is out dated and can no way last for 10 more years.  History tells it a system can make it to the 5 year mark but not only a successor have already been in research and development.  The only way the PS3 can make it 10 years is if MS and Nintendo dropped out before a PS4 is put into a deep enough development process.  Other than that 10 years is unrealistic.

If you want to argue otherwise you need facts, not a few titles (to be released this summer/fall) that will not make or break Sony anyway.  DMC 4 going to 360 helps the 360 in many ways (small but they add up to create an impact) but will not break Sony.  Nor will Metal Gear Solid.  If MGS4 went cross platform it will hurt incentive to buy a PS3 a little but will not break the PS3.  What will break Sony is the sum of various trends and facts that are not, as far as we now, being answered.  Although 600 is not that big of a deal today, Neo Geo didn't last long being expensive in hardware and software (if I remember right was like $80-$100 per-game in the beginning for Neo Geo CD).

Oh and the N64 didn't lose to the PS1 because it was harder to develop for, which can only be a claim made by expert developers which I doubt many here are.  That makes no sense anyway since the PS2, and I can verify this since I did try it (although for research and not for a commerical product), was WAYYYYY harder than the XBOX.  The cost per-N64 cart created a domino effect, which is one of the top reasons why it lost.  $28 for a cart vs. less than $5 for a CD and of course that is enough incentive to make PS1 games.  The more games and developer support it had the more systems that it sold.  The more systems sold the more incentive for developers to support it.  It is a cycle that is hard, if not impossible, to break that has already begun to happen in Microsoft's favor.

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snyper1982

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#130 snyper1982
Member since 2004 • 3407 Posts
[QUOTE="snyper1982"][QUOTE="vaibhav-ahlawat"]

right now all people wanting an xbox360 have bought one but only 10% people wanting a ps3 have had a chance to buy it..for eg people in europe, people who cant afford one yet, people who believe in buying consoles after the console has settled...

people who will buy only one console, (like me) wont be concerened about the exclusives going multiplat if good games continue to come for ps3......i never liked halo. and bioshock, mass efect,... games will be good but they are shooters and they are coming on pc too. By the end of 2007 bluray will have appeared victorious and then people choosing between consoles will cosider ps3 for its high end value.

ghaleon0721
Really? Everyone who wants a 360 has got one? Is that why the 360 sold twice as many as the PS3 last month?

Yeah but which system sold more in its fourth month since launch?

What does THAT have to do with what I said? My point totally disproves what he said, your shows what exactly? That the 360 had well known production issues?
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eclipsed4utoo

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#131 eclipsed4utoo
Member since 2006 • 10578 Posts
[QUOTE="zetius12"][QUOTE="ghaleon0721"]Finally, this thread seems to have taken a more intelligent and analytical turn. It still seems that we are in agreement that the PS1 beat the N64 because the hardware was better for developers which in turn led to better software. But it all began with the hardware. I will concede that the PS2 vs Xbox debate is probably not relevant since it was MS's first console and it came later and it was not designed to overthrow Sony, but to poise MS as a legitimate player in the marketplace. However, you cannot deny, that as both systems' lives wore on, Microsoft NEVER gained ground on Sony and only a miniscule amount of former Sony exclusives migrated to the Xbox. The best selling system, right now, today, March 20, 2007 is the PS2. In this generation, I agree that Sony losing exclusives is a defeat for Sony and a victory for MS. Though for me, the average gamer, I don't care. I still get the games I want on my PS3. If for some reason a Sony exclusive, or great multi-platform suddenly becomes a MS exclusive, that is when I panic. And even then, I would want to know why the exclusive was lost. Microsoft buying the developer doesn't really constitute a victory in my eyes. It is my opinion and my belief that the PS3 is, as Sony promised, poised to supply a top quality gaming and media experience for the next 10 years. I just don't see how MS can make the same claim. It is my OPINION that the Xbox 360 is nothing more than a suped up Xbox. While the PS3 offers next-gen movies, photo and video integration, free online, and motion sensitive controllers. To me, The xbox 360 represents GROWTH, while the PS3 represents EVOLUTION. Therefore, I believe that the PS3 will outlast the Xbox 360. I can almost garauntee that the Xbox 720 (or whatever it will be called) will hit the market WELL before the PS4. I am predicting that MS will have an even larger head start the next time around. You almost get the sense that the 360 has already, or will soon, hit its peak. While, by the same token, the PS3 is blazing full speed ahead. And to the guy who said that the 360 has MORE exclusives than the PS3....where is the list?

Crackdown Too Human Alan Wake Halo 3 Bioshock Fable 2 Mass Effect Shadowrun Kane & Lynch: Dead Men Kingdom Under Fire: Circle of Doom Splinter Cell 5 Peter Jackson's Halo Project Crossfire Marvel Universe Online Halo Wars Forza Motorsport 2 Banjo-Kazooie Hour of Victory Left 4 Dead Lost Odyssey Age of Conan: Hyborian Adventures Project Gotham Racing 4 Dead or Alive 5 New Ninja Gaiden The Crossing Gears of War Dead Rising Lost planet Condemned: Criminal Origins prey Perfect Dark zero Graw Call of Duty 2 and on and on.....

naming games that came out when the 360 was the only console available....that doesn't constitute an "exclusive". there was no other console for the developers, so there was no choice. so you can remove half of those "exclusives"
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snyper1982

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#132 snyper1982
Member since 2004 • 3407 Posts
[QUOTE="snyper1982"][QUOTE="eclipsed4utoo"][QUOTE="perfect-dank-0"]

[QUOTE="eclipsed4utoo"][QUOTE="ghaleon0721"][QUOTE="hunter8man"]It's not the fact that they are losing exclusives, it's the fact of paying $600 for a system just to play a game on that is now available on a cheaper system with not much difference between the two.eclipsed4utoo

I repeat...Online..community...Innovation...integration...longevity. This generation's console war will be decided by hardware, not software.

now that's just stupid. SOFTWARE is what sales a system.

What good is hardware when there is no software?

And ps3 has inferior hardware from a developers point of view.

The games are what sell systems. Period.

actually, many developers state that the PS3 is more powerful and they are looking forward to the potential. more powerful = superior. and why did you quote me and post as though I said HARDWARE was the seller? I didn't say that.

More power that is almost like not having more power to third party developers, who are not going to put in the extra time it takes to harness that extra power....

is that why Activision(I believe it was Activision) had a conference with IBM to help them better harness the power of the CELL processor? sounds like one third party developer is "putting in the extra time".

Have we seen any tangible evidence of them actually increasing production time on multi-plats?
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#133 snyper1982
Member since 2004 • 3407 Posts
[QUOTE="snyper1982"][QUOTE="eclipsed4utoo"][QUOTE="Sigil-otaku"]

[QUOTE="eclipsed4utoo"][QUOTE="Hulabaloza"] [QUOTE="ghaleon0721"][QUOTE="Hulabaloza"]

The 360's advantage is that the Core can match the Wii in price, it has all NEXT GEN games and the Premium models can match the PS3 features, with all its games + Halo, for hundreds less. Do you see why it's positioned so well?eclipsed4utoo

Anyone who believes that the 360 is the better deal because of the lower price needs a head x-ray. There are so many periphereals and add-on services to buy that it's ridiculous. I remember the thread on here about the guy who spent $200 on services and periphereals just to play lost planet. Online play, a 60GB hard drive, blu-ray player, etc, all come straight out of the box with the PS3. If you try to match the Xbox 360 feature for feature with the PS3, you'll spend enough money on extras to make the prices almost equal.

The 360 is going to have all new SKU's this year, and it will line up clearly against the Wii and against the PS3. And price cuts. Just watch. Regardless....Even as it currently sells, the 360 sold twice as many as the PS3 did last month alone.....so alot of people will need to have their head examined.

do you think it's a great thing that Microsoft is releasing an "upgraded" 360 only after a year? what does this say about the original 360?

Not much. They release new televisions all the time, what does that say about yours? Not much. All it says is that it could be better, and the PS3 could as well, because if the 360 were released with HDMI and a 120GB hard drive, it would have a larger hard drive than the PS3 and games wouldn't have to be installed on it for the load times to be reasonable. I'm not criticising the PS3, but I don't think it says much about the original 360. I will say that it would make me angry though, because yes, the original 360s hard drive was too small and too expensive, it's lack of HDMI may also be a problem for some people, but I wait so how big a problem because I don't understand what it's all about.

comparing TVs and game consoles is stupid. TVs are suppose to come out every 6 months(or sooner). So are PCs. Game Consoles are suppose to be different because you don't have to upgrade them over time. That's one arguement on why console gaming is better than PC gaming. because consoles don't have to be updated to have great gameplay/graphics....unlike PCs. TVs are suppose to come out all the time.

When you buy a TV it is supposed to last you as well.... So why does it matter that better ones are continually coming out? Are you tired today or something, because you are usually much smarter than this....

when you buy a TV, you know that a newer one is going to be coming out soon. That is the nature of the TV market. When I bought my 360 in January of last year, I had no idea Microsoft would be releasing an upgraded model only after a year, because console makers don't do that. But here I am with my 360, and I have HDMI and I want a bigger HDD. looks like I will be forking out more money for the upgraded 360. do you think that if everybody who has complained about Microsoft not having HDMI, if they knew that Microsoft was going to be releasing an upgraded 360 with HDMI after a year, do you think they would have bought the 360 at launch? I don't think so. I think they would have waited.

You did know the features it offered and decided that it was worth it though....
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eclipsed4utoo

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#134 eclipsed4utoo
Member since 2006 • 10578 Posts
[QUOTE="eclipsed4utoo"][QUOTE="snyper1982"][QUOTE="eclipsed4utoo"][QUOTE="perfect-dank-0"]

You can look at some of my previous posts and you'll see that I predicted dmc4 and mgs4 will go multiplat.

I don't wanna bash ps3 or anything but sony doesn't seem to care to much about their exclusives anymore and that was why the ps2 was so great.

snyper1982
MGS4 is still a PS3 exclusive.

So was DMC4....

so wait, you will stand by your statement that "SC5 is exclusive because there have been no announcements otherwise" but then you are going to group MSG4 in with DMC4? having your cake and eating it too?

I also said that coul very well change didn't I? Oh yeah, I did.

this is exactly what you said.... "Well I can't see the future, I am just going by what I have read. It could very well be a timed exclusive, but it is stated that SC5 is 360 exclusive, so that is what I am going with". so I am going to take the same approach. MGS4 is still a PS3 exclusive because there is nothing to say otherwise.
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#135 ghaleon0721
Member since 2003 • 338 Posts
[QUOTE="snyper1982"][QUOTE="ghaleon0721"] Blazing full speed ahead while being outsold 2x by the 360.... If that is the PS3 blazing full speed ahead, I hate to see what the future holds for it. The 360 is still about 1.5 years away from it's peak IMO. I am thinking Christmas season 08 is the exact time it will sale the most consoles in it's entire lifespan.

It's all in how you look at the numbers. The PS3 is selling FASTER than the Xbox 360. However in recent months, yes, you're right the 360 sold more. And I believe that you are right about the 1.5 years before the 360 peaks. Just in case anyone didn't realize, that is a BAD thing. That means it only took the system 3 years to reach its pinnacle. Where do you think the PS3 will be on X-mas 08?
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#136 Hulabaloza
Member since 2005 • 1322 Posts
[QUOTE="eclipsed4utoo"] naming games that came out when the 360 was the only console available....that doesn't constitute an "exclusive". there was no other console for the developers, so there was no choice. so you can remove half of those "exclusives"

This argument could get stupid.....what counts what doesnt..... But, 'exclusives' are exclusives regardless of when they come out. If anything the older ones can be a bigger sell to some. They sell at a lower price point. Alot of people don't want a console until it has a 'value' software lineup. A decent roster of $20-30 games.
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#137 bluntiss
Member since 2005 • 462 Posts
It was purely an example, I read plenty of articles from all sorts of different sites. Including, Times Magazine, CNN, New York times. (well they didn't comment on the developers, they just clearly stated that "the ps3 in the biggest bust" IGN, Developers blogs, etc. What's the company in Thunder bay, canada, you know the ones that created the unreal engine. They said it too. I'm not bashing any console, I'm stating facts that have been written. I loved the PS, owned them both, but sadly, I don't think I see any advantage to owning a ps3. Graphics don't really matter anymore, nor did they last gen. Xbox was a heck of alot more powerful than 360, but yet sony won. That's gotta tell you somethin.
[QUOTE="bluntiss"]Somebody just said that developers are happy with ps3??? That's a big NO, Developers hate working on the ps3 because it's cost and it's unuser friendly programming. What are you talking. Do you even read anything that comes on this website?????eclipsed4utoo
Actually, I don't read anything from this website. I read articles from about 5-7 different websites excluding this one. I will never read an article from Gamespot. and you should hit the quote button if you want to reply to a specific post. PS....8000th post...Woot Woot

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#138 eclipsed4utoo
Member since 2006 • 10578 Posts
[QUOTE="eclipsed4utoo"][QUOTE="snyper1982"][QUOTE="eclipsed4utoo"][QUOTE="perfect-dank-0"]

[QUOTE="eclipsed4utoo"][QUOTE="ghaleon0721"][QUOTE="hunter8man"]It's not the fact that they are losing exclusives, it's the fact of paying $600 for a system just to play a game on that is now available on a cheaper system with not much difference between the two.snyper1982

I repeat...Online..community...Innovation...integration...longevity. This generation's console war will be decided by hardware, not software.

now that's just stupid. SOFTWARE is what sales a system.

What good is hardware when there is no software?

And ps3 has inferior hardware from a developers point of view.

The games are what sell systems. Period.

actually, many developers state that the PS3 is more powerful and they are looking forward to the potential. more powerful = superior. and why did you quote me and post as though I said HARDWARE was the seller? I didn't say that.

More power that is almost like not having more power to third party developers, who are not going to put in the extra time it takes to harness that extra power....

is that why Activision(I believe it was Activision) had a conference with IBM to help them better harness the power of the CELL processor? sounds like one third party developer is "putting in the extra time".

Have we seen any tangible evidence of them actually increasing production time on multi-plats?

we have proof that they are trying. why would they spend money on IBM consultants if they weren't planning on using what they learned? now that would just be stupid.
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eclipsed4utoo

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#139 eclipsed4utoo
Member since 2006 • 10578 Posts
[QUOTE="eclipsed4utoo"][QUOTE="snyper1982"][QUOTE="eclipsed4utoo"][QUOTE="Sigil-otaku"]

[QUOTE="eclipsed4utoo"][QUOTE="Hulabaloza"] [QUOTE="ghaleon0721"][QUOTE="Hulabaloza"]

The 360's advantage is that the Core can match the Wii in price, it has all NEXT GEN games and the Premium models can match the PS3 features, with all its games + Halo, for hundreds less. Do you see why it's positioned so well?snyper1982

Anyone who believes that the 360 is the better deal because of the lower price needs a head x-ray. There are so many periphereals and add-on services to buy that it's ridiculous. I remember the thread on here about the guy who spent $200 on services and periphereals just to play lost planet. Online play, a 60GB hard drive, blu-ray player, etc, all come straight out of the box with the PS3. If you try to match the Xbox 360 feature for feature with the PS3, you'll spend enough money on extras to make the prices almost equal.

The 360 is going to have all new SKU's this year, and it will line up clearly against the Wii and against the PS3. And price cuts. Just watch. Regardless....Even as it currently sells, the 360 sold twice as many as the PS3 did last month alone.....so alot of people will need to have their head examined.

do you think it's a great thing that Microsoft is releasing an "upgraded" 360 only after a year? what does this say about the original 360?

Not much. They release new televisions all the time, what does that say about yours? Not much. All it says is that it could be better, and the PS3 could as well, because if the 360 were released with HDMI and a 120GB hard drive, it would have a larger hard drive than the PS3 and games wouldn't have to be installed on it for the load times to be reasonable. I'm not criticising the PS3, but I don't think it says much about the original 360. I will say that it would make me angry though, because yes, the original 360s hard drive was too small and too expensive, it's lack of HDMI may also be a problem for some people, but I wait so how big a problem because I don't understand what it's all about.

comparing TVs and game consoles is stupid. TVs are suppose to come out every 6 months(or sooner). So are PCs. Game Consoles are suppose to be different because you don't have to upgrade them over time. That's one arguement on why console gaming is better than PC gaming. because consoles don't have to be updated to have great gameplay/graphics....unlike PCs. TVs are suppose to come out all the time.

When you buy a TV it is supposed to last you as well.... So why does it matter that better ones are continually coming out? Are you tired today or something, because you are usually much smarter than this....

when you buy a TV, you know that a newer one is going to be coming out soon. That is the nature of the TV market. When I bought my 360 in January of last year, I had no idea Microsoft would be releasing an upgraded model only after a year, because console makers don't do that. But here I am with my 360, and I have HDMI and I want a bigger HDD. looks like I will be forking out more money for the upgraded 360. do you think that if everybody who has complained about Microsoft not having HDMI, if they knew that Microsoft was going to be releasing an upgraded 360 with HDMI after a year, do you think they would have bought the 360 at launch? I don't think so. I think they would have waited.

You did know the features it offered and decided that it was worth it though....

and if I would have known they were going to be releasing an upgraded model with HDMI and a bigger HDD, I would have waited.
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#140 ghaleon0721
Member since 2003 • 338 Posts
[QUOTE="Hulabaloza"][QUOTE="eclipsed4utoo"] naming games that came out when the 360 was the only console available....that doesn't constitute an "exclusive". there was no other console for the developers, so there was no choice. so you can remove half of those "exclusives"

This argument could get stupid.....what counts what doesnt..... But, 'exclusives' are exclusives regardless of when they come out. If anything the older ones can be a bigger sell to some. They sell at a lower price point. Alot of people don't want a console until it has a 'value' software lineup. A decent roster of $20-30 games.

A decent roster of $20 - $30 games? How about a few THOUSAND PS2 games
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#141 treelog187
Member since 2005 • 2111 Posts

Somebody just said that developers are happy with ps3???   That's a big NO, Developers hate working on the ps3 because it's cost and it's unuser friendly programming.  What are you talking.   Do you even read anything that comes on this website?????bluntiss

This website is retarded for one and two developers know the PS3 can be pushed further than competitors in most aspects. Go do little research. Because of the PS3s unique architecture developers can really differentiate there games, instead of each genre having 20 different games that look and play the same.

Your also forgetting that the PS2 much like the PS3 was considered very difficult to develope for at the time of its release.

There is a big difference between difficult to use or just plain horrible. Also if developers all stayed using easier older technology nothing would advance. If developers thought with your logic we would still be playing 2d side scrollers.

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New0001

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#142 New0001
Member since 2007 • 25 Posts
I like you ghaleon lol because you are trying but again what you are writing is not realistic. For one unless you are a really good psyhic there is no way to know how much a PS3 successor will cost. Even if we were to say 1k for arguements sake what does that have to do with the PS3 making it to the 10th year? Secondly 10 years is not realistic. The Gameboy's only competition was itself and it had to evolve. This is business. Gamers expectations will grow and the PS3 will not keep up 10 years from now. There is no way any being of technology will last that long. If we could swap out mother boards, graphics cards, etc then that is different (although will amount to the same thing that you will have to buy something new to keep up). Now if you think otherwise I welcome a list of actually reasons that are facts backed up by examples. There is nothing about the PS3 that gives it longevity. That is a marketing technique to get people to invest, not a fact. Actually Sony is still making money off of the PS2 and will for at least throughout this year (especially this season thanks to games like God of War 2). And what do you mean by developers are not fully using the potential. I know what that means but how many here actually do. Because I get the feeling that until this generation is over, or at least close to over, people will use that as a way of arguing that PS3 will beat the 360. This does not go one way my friend. If there is quality to be had it can be had on both systems. Just as of course the overall view of PS3 games will get much better, so will the 360. The PS3 getting better one day is no reason why it will beat the 360 which the same arguement holds true. Graphics are as pretty as the artists that creates them. Of course hardware opens that door for possibility but in the days of programmable shaders, amoung other things, makes it hard for me to believe that the leap between first gen PS2 games and last gen PS2 games will or can take place. Now DON'T GET ME WRONG. It better be easy for anyone to avoid games like Gundam LOL and other special case examples.
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#143 zetius12
Member since 2004 • 25 Posts
[QUOTE="eclipsed4utoo"][QUOTE="zetius12"][QUOTE="ghaleon0721"]Finally, this thread seems to have taken a more intelligent and analytical turn. It still seems that we are in agreement that the PS1 beat the N64 because the hardware was better for developers which in turn led to better software. But it all began with the hardware. I will concede that the PS2 vs Xbox debate is probably not relevant since it was MS's first console and it came later and it was not designed to overthrow Sony, but to poise MS as a legitimate player in the marketplace. However, you cannot deny, that as both systems' lives wore on, Microsoft NEVER gained ground on Sony and only a miniscule amount of former Sony exclusives migrated to the Xbox. The best selling system, right now, today, March 20, 2007 is the PS2. In this generation, I agree that Sony losing exclusives is a defeat for Sony and a victory for MS. Though for me, the average gamer, I don't care. I still get the games I want on my PS3. If for some reason a Sony exclusive, or great multi-platform suddenly becomes a MS exclusive, that is when I panic. And even then, I would want to know why the exclusive was lost. Microsoft buying the developer doesn't really constitute a victory in my eyes. It is my opinion and my belief that the PS3 is, as Sony promised, poised to supply a top quality gaming and media experience for the next 10 years. I just don't see how MS can make the same claim. It is my OPINION that the Xbox 360 is nothing more than a suped up Xbox. While the PS3 offers next-gen movies, photo and video integration, free online, and motion sensitive controllers. To me, The xbox 360 represents GROWTH, while the PS3 represents EVOLUTION. Therefore, I believe that the PS3 will outlast the Xbox 360. I can almost garauntee that the Xbox 720 (or whatever it will be called) will hit the market WELL before the PS4. I am predicting that MS will have an even larger head start the next time around. You almost get the sense that the 360 has already, or will soon, hit its peak. While, by the same token, the PS3 is blazing full speed ahead. And to the guy who said that the 360 has MORE exclusives than the PS3....where is the list?

Crackdown Too Human Alan Wake Halo 3 Bioshock Fable 2 Mass Effect Shadowrun Kane & Lynch: Dead Men Kingdom Under Fire: Circle of Doom Splinter Cell 5 Peter Jackson's Halo Project Crossfire Marvel Universe Online Halo Wars Forza Motorsport 2 Banjo-Kazooie Hour of Victory Left 4 Dead Lost Odyssey Age of Conan: Hyborian Adventures Project Gotham Racing 4 Dead or Alive 5 New Ninja Gaiden The Crossing Gears of War Dead Rising Lost planet Condemned: Criminal Origins prey Perfect Dark zero Graw Call of Duty 2 and on and on.....

naming games that came out when the 360 was the only console available....that doesn't constitute an "exclusive". there was no other console for the developers, so there was no choice. so you can remove half of those "exclusives"

that takes off only: Gears of War Dead Rising Lost planet Condemned: Criminal Origins prey Perfect Dark zero Graw Call of Duty 2
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#144 New0001
Member since 2007 • 25 Posts

[QUOTE="bluntiss"]Somebody just said that developers are happy with ps3???   That's a big NO, Developers hate working on the ps3 because it's cost and it's unuser friendly programming.  What are you talking.   Do you even read anything that comes on this website?????treelog187

This website is retarded for one and two developers know the PS3 can be pushed further than competitors in most aspects. Go do little research. Because of the PS3s unique architecture developers can really differentiate there games, instead of each genre having 20 different games that look and play the same.

Your also forgetting that the PS2 much like the PS3 was considered very difficult to develope for at the time of its release.

There is a big difference between difficult to use or just plain horrible. Also if developers all stayed using easier older technology nothing would advance. If developers thought with your logic we would still be playing 2d side scrollers.

I like the part about there being a difference between being difficult and being plan horrible. There is a difference and I am glad someone pointed that out.
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eclipsed4utoo

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#145 eclipsed4utoo
Member since 2006 • 10578 Posts
It was purely an example, I read plenty of articles from all sorts of different sites. Including, Times Magazine, CNN, New York times. (well they didn't comment on the developers, they just clearly stated that "the ps3 in the biggest bust" IGN, Developers blogs, etc. What's the company in Thunder bay, canada, you know the ones that created the unreal engine. They said it too. I'm not bashing any console, I'm stating facts that have been written. I loved the PS, owned them both, but sadly, I don't think I see any advantage to owning a ps3. Graphics don't really matter anymore, nor did they last gen. Xbox was a heck of alot more powerful than 360, but yet sony won. That's gotta tell you somethin. [QUOTE="eclipsed4utoo"][QUOTE="bluntiss"]Somebody just said that developers are happy with ps3??? That's a big NO, Developers hate working on the ps3 because it's cost and it's unuser friendly programming. What are you talking. Do you even read anything that comes on this website?????bluntiss
Actually, I don't read anything from this website. I read articles from about 5-7 different websites excluding this one. I will never read an article from Gamespot. and you should hit the quote button if you want to reply to a specific post. PS....8000th post...Woot Woot

Epic Games, the creators of the Unreal Engine are based out of Raleigh/Cary, North Carolina....not Canada. and NO third party developer has every said that the PS3 was the biggest bust. those were news outlets....not gaming sites. it's the games that matter....and I have stated that many, many times. But to say that the PS3 is a bust because after 4 months, they only have about 30 games available, now that's just retarded. The PS2 was the same way. look how it ended.
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#146 snyper1982
Member since 2004 • 3407 Posts
[QUOTE="snyper1982"][QUOTE="eclipsed4utoo"][QUOTE="snyper1982"][QUOTE="eclipsed4utoo"][QUOTE="perfect-dank-0"]

You can look at some of my previous posts and you'll see that I predicted dmc4 and mgs4 will go multiplat.

I don't wanna bash ps3 or anything but sony doesn't seem to care to much about their exclusives anymore and that was why the ps2 was so great.

eclipsed4utoo
MGS4 is still a PS3 exclusive.

So was DMC4....

so wait, you will stand by your statement that "SC5 is exclusive because there have been no announcements otherwise" but then you are going to group MSG4 in with DMC4? having your cake and eating it too?

I also said that coul very well change didn't I? Oh yeah, I did.

this is exactly what you said.... "Well I can't see the future, I am just going by what I have read. It could very well be a timed exclusive, but it is stated that SC5 is 360 exclusive, so that is what I am going with". so I am going to take the same approach. MGS4 is still a PS3 exclusive because there is nothing to say otherwise.

And I never said it isn't....
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#147 eclipsed4utoo
Member since 2006 • 10578 Posts
[QUOTE="zetius12"][QUOTE="eclipsed4utoo"][QUOTE="zetius12"][QUOTE="ghaleon0721"]Finally, this thread seems to have taken a more intelligent and analytical turn. It still seems that we are in agreement that the PS1 beat the N64 because the hardware was better for developers which in turn led to better software. But it all began with the hardware. I will concede that the PS2 vs Xbox debate is probably not relevant since it was MS's first console and it came later and it was not designed to overthrow Sony, but to poise MS as a legitimate player in the marketplace. However, you cannot deny, that as both systems' lives wore on, Microsoft NEVER gained ground on Sony and only a miniscule amount of former Sony exclusives migrated to the Xbox. The best selling system, right now, today, March 20, 2007 is the PS2. In this generation, I agree that Sony losing exclusives is a defeat for Sony and a victory for MS. Though for me, the average gamer, I don't care. I still get the games I want on my PS3. If for some reason a Sony exclusive, or great multi-platform suddenly becomes a MS exclusive, that is when I panic. And even then, I would want to know why the exclusive was lost. Microsoft buying the developer doesn't really constitute a victory in my eyes. It is my opinion and my belief that the PS3 is, as Sony promised, poised to supply a top quality gaming and media experience for the next 10 years. I just don't see how MS can make the same claim. It is my OPINION that the Xbox 360 is nothing more than a suped up Xbox. While the PS3 offers next-gen movies, photo and video integration, free online, and motion sensitive controllers. To me, The xbox 360 represents GROWTH, while the PS3 represents EVOLUTION. Therefore, I believe that the PS3 will outlast the Xbox 360. I can almost garauntee that the Xbox 720 (or whatever it will be called) will hit the market WELL before the PS4. I am predicting that MS will have an even larger head start the next time around. You almost get the sense that the 360 has already, or will soon, hit its peak. While, by the same token, the PS3 is blazing full speed ahead. And to the guy who said that the 360 has MORE exclusives than the PS3....where is the list?

Crackdown Too Human Alan Wake Halo 3 Bioshock Fable 2 Mass Effect Shadowrun Kane & Lynch: Dead Men Kingdom Under Fire: Circle of Doom Splinter Cell 5 Peter Jackson's Halo Project Crossfire Marvel Universe Online Halo Wars Forza Motorsport 2 Banjo-Kazooie Hour of Victory Left 4 Dead Lost Odyssey Age of Conan: Hyborian Adventures Project Gotham Racing 4 Dead or Alive 5 New Ninja Gaiden The Crossing Gears of War Dead Rising Lost planet Condemned: Criminal Origins prey Perfect Dark zero Graw Call of Duty 2 and on and on.....

naming games that came out when the 360 was the only console available....that doesn't constitute an "exclusive". there was no other console for the developers, so there was no choice. so you can remove half of those "exclusives"

that takes off only: Gears of War Dead Rising Lost planet Condemned: Criminal Origins prey Perfect Dark zero Graw Call of Duty 2

You can leave GeOW on because that would have been exclusive whether the PS3 was available or not.
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snyper1982

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#148 snyper1982
Member since 2004 • 3407 Posts
[QUOTE="ghaleon0721"][QUOTE="snyper1982"][QUOTE="ghaleon0721"] Blazing full speed ahead while being outsold 2x by the 360.... If that is the PS3 blazing full speed ahead, I hate to see what the future holds for it. The 360 is still about 1.5 years away from it's peak IMO. I am thinking Christmas season 08 is the exact time it will sale the most consoles in it's entire lifespan.

It's all in how you look at the numbers. The PS3 is selling FASTER than the Xbox 360. However in recent months, yes, you're right the 360 sold more. And I believe that you are right about the 1.5 years before the 360 peaks. Just in case anyone didn't realize, that is a BAD thing. That means it only took the system 3 years to reach its pinnacle. Where do you think the PS3 will be on X-mas 08?

In an average of a 5 year console life cycle, I fail to see it as a bad thing.
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eclipsed4utoo

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#149 eclipsed4utoo
Member since 2006 • 10578 Posts
[QUOTE="eclipsed4utoo"][QUOTE="snyper1982"][QUOTE="eclipsed4utoo"][QUOTE="snyper1982"][QUOTE="eclipsed4utoo"][QUOTE="perfect-dank-0"]

You can look at some of my previous posts and you'll see that I predicted dmc4 and mgs4 will go multiplat.

I don't wanna bash ps3 or anything but sony doesn't seem to care to much about their exclusives anymore and that was why the ps2 was so great.

snyper1982
MGS4 is still a PS3 exclusive.

So was DMC4....

so wait, you will stand by your statement that "SC5 is exclusive because there have been no announcements otherwise" but then you are going to group MSG4 in with DMC4? having your cake and eating it too?

I also said that coul very well change didn't I? Oh yeah, I did.

this is exactly what you said.... "Well I can't see the future, I am just going by what I have read. It could very well be a timed exclusive, but it is stated that SC5 is 360 exclusive, so that is what I am going with". so I am going to take the same approach. MGS4 is still a PS3 exclusive because there is nothing to say otherwise.

And I never said it isn't....

but you know you want to. that's the whole reason for the "so was DMC4". you want to make it sound like MGS4 will go multiplatform just like DMC4 did, but you don't want to actually say it word for word. it's like you are just trying to beat around the bush so when it doesn't happen, you can be like, " well I never said it would".
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ghaleon0721

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#150 ghaleon0721
Member since 2003 • 338 Posts
[QUOTE="snyper1982"][QUOTE="ghaleon0721"][QUOTE="snyper1982"][QUOTE="ghaleon0721"] Blazing full speed ahead while being outsold 2x by the 360.... If that is the PS3 blazing full speed ahead, I hate to see what the future holds for it. The 360 is still about 1.5 years away from it's peak IMO. I am thinking Christmas season 08 is the exact time it will sale the most consoles in it's entire lifespan.

It's all in how you look at the numbers. The PS3 is selling FASTER than the Xbox 360. However in recent months, yes, you're right the 360 sold more. And I believe that you are right about the 1.5 years before the 360 peaks. Just in case anyone didn't realize, that is a BAD thing. That means it only took the system 3 years to reach its pinnacle. Where do you think the PS3 will be on X-mas 08?

In an average of a 5 year console life cycle, I fail to see it as a bad thing.

Where are you getting an "average" 5 year console life cycle from? The PS2 is still the #1 console and its going on 7 years old. Plus there is STILL great software support for it (GOW 2, Burnout, Rogue Galaxy). I wouldn't be surprised of the PS2 still sells strong into '08. The gaming market is CHANGING. People are not going to keep shelling out more and more money every couple of years. The price of the technology is growing too fast. I think we are approaching the breaking point where consoles have to provide more value over a longer time to persuade consumers to purchase it.