OH MY GOD!!! Look at these LAIR pics

Gizmo Logix

Just to get things straight, I have never tried to hide that I got 3 accounts here and toggle between them because though having moved friends and unions to TE_Lawrence there's still old threads attached to my VonGak account (like my PS3 exclusive list, MGS threads, why Blu-Ray is better than HD-DVD, why Blu-Ray is a must for next gen titles, John Carmac being a twit who can only woork with API and not take advantage of the hardware in closed systems), Team-CSC is used under the Giro, Tour and Vuelta.
Also, my signatures got "-VonGak" in them, so it takes no Sherlock to find out that they are held by the same person.

And I would appreciate if you would stop edeting your posts in the middle of a debate, if you forgot something then quote your own post or at least write "EDIT:" followed by your correction.
You edits do tend to add extra to your posts, have compared them with my direct quotes.

Now I was telling Washimul to calm down and that that the things shown in Lair other than the SixAxis controls also are possible on the xBox 360.
Now you quoted my debate with Washimul meaning that you obviously were writing in CONTEXT.

* And please don't talk about digital downloads for all games yet. We're not there yet; I don't have a 100Mb/s connection yet. And I really don't want to be downloading 15-25GB (video content and PCM audio) per game/movie anytime soon without first a faster connection and lots more hard-drive space.

And here was my issue "and PCM audio" as you do not download PCM audio nor is the audio stored as PCM on the Blu-Ray discs.

Then you a couple of pages later responded with

Well, I was refering to both games and movies. But just in case you missed it.

Resistance: Gaming in 7.1 PCM Uncompressed Impressions!

waste with no gain in quality = not!

Where I told you that you mixed up the PCM output with the format the sound files are stored as on Blu-Ray.

You also quote  my debate with Washimul again!

[QUOTE="VonGak"]Um, take a quick google:

-Resistance ATRAC3 AC3
-Factor 5 Lair DivX tool set

The architecture of PS3 doesn't allow for uncompressed data unless you want to bog it down.gizmo_logix

The architecture? What are you talking about? Read on...

IGN: The game's tech specs have been a frequent topic of discussion. So that said, what level of HD will it run in (720p, 1080i, 1080p), what's the final framerate, and what sort of audio codec have you decided to support??

Al Hastings, Chief Technology Officer, Insomniac: Our intention is to support all HD modes including 1080p. The framerate will be locked at 30 frames per second in both single-player and multiplayer. We use a number of different codecs internally including AC3 and ATRAC3 depending on what's best suited to each particular case. The highest quality output format our game supports is 7.1 uncompressed over HDMI.
--------

I wen't in depth and explained to you that due to bandwidth restrictions and RAM size all PS3 games got the sound compressed and your link confirmed it.

I even told you to think over why in the world Insomniac would have compressed sound and PCM stored on the Blu-Ray, which they obviously don't. As the interview says, the sound is compressed with AC plus ATRAC and the game supports PCM 7.1 output.
It does not say the sound is stored as AC, ATRAC and PCM.

You also made another post directed to me:

1) We weren't talking about whether or not PCM in games was "stupid." We were talking about  whether or not it was USED!

2) Me being a developer has nothing to do with it. If I was developing on DVD9 I would not use PCM. If you want to keep defending DVD9...by all means. That's what Luddites do. But please, stop with the wishful thinking that blu-ray games will not utilized more space than 9Gb and stop denying that DVD9 has limits. If Lair uses more compression. So be it. If it manages to reach over 9GB. Your point is still moot. Stay on topic.

1. But it's not used as I told you, only really bad first time developers would do something so ignorant hence my comment about it being good that you aren't a developer.

2. When have I ever defended DVD9? I supported Blu-Ray as a gaming medium long before it was even confirmed for PS3 and I got a posting history supporting this.

As I stated, Blu-Ray is not needed because of uncompressed data, it's just as compressed as on the 360.
The Blu-ray is needed for diversity as in more sound and Mega Textures without compromising the quality which the developers would have been forced to do if using DVDs.

 But your kind makes the PS3 look bad because you claim the extra storage space to be used for uncompressed sound which is straight out false and it gives life to the SW claims about PS3 games taking up a lot of space could have been done on DVD9 if the developers had used compression.

Your uninformed fanboy rambling actually hurts the PS3 a whole lot more than it helps.

Gizmo Logix

Now let me answer your latest post:

Now, show me where I'm "one of those people that claim that PS3 games only being on Blu-Ray due to uncompressed." Hmmmm. If you look at my post. I was rebutting the TE_Lawrence post in that PCM audio WAS used in PS3 games (and movies). Your alter-ego managed to just take one part of my original post in which I was talking about all the different ways that space can be utilized using the blu-ray. That was for games AND movies. You can be very selective in your post. Which is what you did. At this point you logged out as TE_Lawerence and logged in as VonGak.... And then you posted the statement for...after washimui talks about Resistance taking up 22GB (20GB actually)...

gizmo_logix

Uncompressed data takes 10x up the space at least and the Blu-Ray is not 10x bigger than DVD9, so as soon as you open your mouth about sound being stored as PCM you directly support the SW rumours.

You completely overlooked that the PS3 works so much better with compressed data, even though I went into details for you.

There's not a single scenario were there would be a gain from storing storing uncompressed sound on Blu-Ray for games, Resistance - Fall of Man takes up 16GB for other reasons like its share diversity and data streaming.

1) What does AC3 and ATRAC audio have any thing to do with Resistance's not using 20GB? It still uses 20GB (compression or not). If if was zero compression used for the game it would have used even more space.

2) Some data is compressed, some data is not. Blu-ray is used for two reason. Movies and games. Data duplication and compression are still used. But in the end, the space is valuable regardless. Next you say, "using PCM is utterly stupid in PS3 games." Which you still haven't provided me the quote from Ted about PCM not being used. You failed to define PCM (by TE_Lawrence/you). You just keep saying, it's not being used, it's stupid, and left it at that. Completely missing my original post about blu-ray and the Justin's quote about Lair using 4GB for one level. Which everyone on the anti-Sony clan tries to deny. And here's one of your last post...

gizmo_logix

1) And you tell me to re-read the posts? :| I said Resistance takes up more space because the sound is compressed at higher bit-rates than possible on DVDs.

2. At what time did I claimed that Ted had made such a statement? I said that Ted had confirmed the sound in Resistance is compressed.
That uncompressed sound makes no sense in PS3 games is something you get from looking at the architecture. But you can go to Beyond3D and ask one of the devs (Faldafa, DeanA, DeanoC or NAO) about it.
You can also got to Playstation.com and read the Q/A session with Evolution Studios where they state that CELL decompresses faster than it compresses data.

Yeah, and? So, what you are saying is that the extra space is a waste? Or that DVD9 should have been used? Or that any data extra disk spaced used by highbit rates is not needed? Your whole argument is trying to prove that blu-ray is not needed. Using words like "PCM is stupid" or "PS3 can't handle uncompressed" audio suggest this. Broad claims like that mean nothing. And this is supposed to negate how much space over 9GB that Lair will use? I mean, come on...try again... Next time, could you use one login? TE_Lawerence, VonGak and Team-CSC. You're all of them, right? Note: The "edits" are spelling and typo corrections. Not content changes. I like the site font for reading. But it's hard to type on this site. If it had an autosave. It would be better. I save so that I wont lose the post; browser error (sometime it happens).gizmo_logix

Have I ever said that there was no need for the extra space? Not once and with my extensive posting history on this very board and System Wars, it's beyond me that you even dare to hint that I should be anti PS3 or anti Blu-Ray.

I'm anti false information taking the focus away from the real advantage Blu-Ray offers.

And I'm also against people like Washimul making directly silly PS3 performance claims, or stating that those Lair pictures and the demo aren't possible on the 360 when both consoles clearly can do better with time.

Have I ever said that there was no need for the extra space? Not once and with my extensive posting history on this very board and System Wars, it's beyond me that you even dare to hint that I should be anti PS3 or anti Blu-Ray.I'm anti false information taking the focus away from the real advantage Blu-Ray offers.

And I'm also against people like Washimul making directly silly PS3 performance claims, or stating that those Lair pictures and the demo aren't possible on the 360 when both consoles clearly can do better with time.TE_Lawrence

First of all. I had to make sure you were TE_, VonGak and Team-CSC instead of just assuming. That way I can refer to post as coming from the same person, instead of that "other guy." Although, I do have 2000+ post. I do not have as many as you nor spent as much time as you on this forum nor have I done the time to "Sherlock" any type of info regarding your post history or signature usage. I post on a case by case basis. There's just too many trolls to deal with. Now on to Ted blog. I wanted you to say that Ted used only AC3 and ATRAC, but also offered PCM output via 7.1 for Resistance. Instead of just saying "it's a waste" or "stupid." That comes off as a troll completly discounting any benift of PCM 5, 6, or 7 regardless if it's output only or not. My original post was in context to all of the usage of blu-ray. I did not know how the audio was stored. But I did know that it was outputted as PCM 7.1 or at least offered it. So, when you said that it was a "waste" or "stupid" to use PCM. It comes off as sounding as *all PCM PERIOD, is stupid." Do you see? Which IMO, is not. When I first saw TE_'s post I though, oh boy. Here goes another troll. But I remember "VonGak" post as normally not anti-PS3. So, it confused me that the same poster was acting slighty different in the replies. That why I mentioned, alterego, when referring to the TE post vs VonGak post. I seem to remember VonGak post as being pro-blu-ray and pro-Sony. But not as much so in this thread. Especially mixed with TE post. And though some people can be sherlocks. Other noobs might not catch it right away that you use many logins.

EDIT (added): Which means, you can use it creativly to cast a false preception that you have others in the same thread that share your opinion (when all along it was YOU). The fact that you sign your name at the bottom doesn't really matter especially when you know that some *new* people might not know your history. When engaging in a thread debate. Use ONE login! Else it comes off as deceptive to others that might not know your many alteregos, er, I mean logins.

Nevertheless, all this debate stems from my post about Lair using 4GB per level. This was forshadows total usage of the game; which includes data and audio of various sizes. Either way, it most likely will exceed 9GB. Although, we don't know how long the game will be which can also increase the size. But I do not like when xbox trolls (who ever they are) come in here and try to find ways to wishfully think that it's not possible (or needed) that some games will grow larger than 9GB. And this is in context of any developer that wisely uses the space given from blu-ray and STILL exceed 9GB. This is inevitable. I don't care what the 360 does in regards to their games. They can do whatever they want. All I care about is how blu-ray can be used to maximize the gaming (and movie) experience. And this is looking into the future as a long term goal. Not just what our current "good enough" standards happen to be now.

i think they are ugly...looks just kinda messy and muckycupNoodles

Lair supports native full HD 1080p graphics and 7.1 uncompressed audio

• Progressive Mesh is a technique rendered by the Cell microprocessor, which allows for an intensive amount of detail to be placed upon vast number of objects, both up-close and far away.
• High-Dynamic Range Lighting: All of the lights, shadows, reflections, and highlights in Lair are in HDR, and are rendered in real-time by the Cell and RSX, thus allowing the lighting scheme to completely change, just like the time of day does in-game, however, due to the advanced programming of the lighting system, it will be ever-changing, and rarely, if ever the same twice.
• Real-time Dynamic Physics: Every second of gameplay, Lair renders hundreds of physics effects on everything from your dragon, down to the cloak on an enemy soldier. All enemies and allies have their own physics-driven animations, and have individually programmed ragdolls.
• Real-time Fluid Dynamics: All of the water effects in Lair, such as waves, are run by real-time fluid dynamics on the Cell.
• Parallax Shaders: Parallax shaders are used on almost every object in Lair, including fire and clouds.
• Real-Time Renderings/Volumetric Effects: The fire in Lair is rendered in real-time, and has its own physics. All of the clouds, smoke, and fog effects are volumetric. Lava, rain, wind, fur, and more are also rendered in real-time.
  
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lair_%28video_game%29
  HURRAY!
  

[QUOTE="mastermu"][QUOTE="Redfingers"]Whether or not it has been posted, I have to ask... Are those real-time? In-game? They're breathtaking.g_hart

Not being funny, but how do you know?

Lair supports native full HD 1080p graphics and 7.1 uncompressed audio

• Progressive Mesh is a technique rendered by the Cell microprocessor, which allows for an intensive amount of detail to be placed upon vast number of objects, both up-close and far away.
• High-Dynamic Range Lighting: All of the lights, shadows, reflections, and highlights in Lair are in HDR,
  and are rendered in real-time by the Cell and RSX, thus allowing the
  lighting scheme to completely change, just like the time of day does
  in-game, however, due to the advanced programming of the lighting
  system, it will be ever-changing, and rarely, if ever the same twice.
• Real-time Dynamic Physics: Every second of gameplay, Lair
  renders hundreds of physics effects on everything from your dragon,
  down to the cloak on an enemy soldier. All enemies and allies have
  their own physics-driven animations, and have individually programmed
  ragdolls.
• Real-time Fluid Dynamics: All of the water effects in Lair, such as waves, are run by real-time fluid dynamics on the Cell.
• Parallax Shaders: Parallax shaders are used on almost every object in Lair, including fire and clouds.
• Real-Time Renderings/Volumetric Effects: The fire in Lair is rendered in real-time, and has its own physics. All of the clouds, smoke, and fog effects are volumetric. Lava, rain, wind, fur, and more are also rendered in real-time.Squall_Griver

my little brother has a ps3 and i have a wii and xbox 360...we play my wii60 combo WAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYY more than the pscrap..my mom said she cant believe she wasted freakin 700+ dollars on that **** system will become good once the usual games come out like mgs,final fantasy,devil may cry,gt, and the other typical sequels for the ps3 but even then is that enough to actually justify buying this piece of **** idk anobleloss

Gizmo Logix

Now let me answer your latest post:

[QUOTE="gizmo_logix"]

Now, show me where I'm "one of those people that claim that PS3 games only being on Blu-Ray due to uncompressed." Hmmmm. If you look at my post. I was rebutting the TE_Lawrence post in that PCM audio WAS used in PS3 games (and movies). Your alter-ego managed to just take one part of my original post in which I was talking about all the different ways that space can be utilized using the blu-ray. That was for games AND movies. You can be very selective in your post. Which is what you did. At this point you logged out as TE_Lawerence and logged in as VonGak.... And then you posted the statement for...after washimui talks about Resistance taking up 22GB (20GB actually)...

TE_Lawrence

Uncompressed data takes 10x up the space at least and the Blu-Ray is not 10x bigger than DVD9, so as soon as you open your mouth about sound being stored as PCM you directly support the SW rumours.

You completely overlooked that the PS3 works so much better with compressed data, even though I went into details for you.

There's not a single scenario were there would be a gain from storing storing uncompressed sound on Blu-Ray for games, Resistance - Fall of Man takes up 16GB for other reasons like its share diversity and data streaming.

1) What does AC3 and ATRAC audio have any thing to do with Resistance's not using 20GB? It still uses 20GB (compression or not). If if was zero compression used for the game it would have used even more space.

2) Some data is compressed, some data is not. Blu-ray is used for two reason. Movies and games. Data duplication and compression are still used. But in the end, the space is valuable regardless. Next you say, "using PCM is utterly stupid in PS3 games." Which you still haven't provided me the quote from Ted about PCM not being used. You failed to define PCM (by TE_Lawrence/you). You just keep saying, it's not being used, it's stupid, and left it at that. Completely missing my original post about blu-ray and the Justin's quote about Lair using 4GB for one level. Which everyone on the anti-Sony clan tries to deny. And here's one of your last post...

gizmo_logix

1) And you tell me to re-read the posts? :| I said Resistance takes up more space because the sound is compressed at higher bit-rates than possible on DVDs.

2. At what time did I claimed that Ted had made such a statement? I said that Ted had confirmed the sound in Resistance is compressed.
That uncompressed sound makes no sense in PS3 games is something you get from looking at the architecture. But you can go to Beyond3D and ask one of the devs (Faldafa, DeanA, DeanoC or NAO) about it.
You can also got to Playstation.com and read the Q/A session with Evolution Studios where they state that CELL decompresses faster than it compresses data.

Yeah, and? So, what you are saying is that the extra space is a waste? Or that DVD9 should have been used? Or that any data extra disk spaced used by highbit rates is not needed? Your whole argument is trying to prove that blu-ray is not needed. Using words like "PCM is stupid" or "PS3 can't handle uncompressed" audio suggest this. Broad claims like that mean nothing. And this is supposed to negate how much space over 9GB that Lair will use? I mean, come on...try again... Next time, could you use one login? TE_Lawerence, VonGak and Team-CSC. You're all of them, right? Note: The "edits" are spelling and typo corrections. Not content changes. I like the site font for reading. But it's hard to type on this site. If it had an autosave. It would be better. I save so that I wont lose the post; browser error (sometime it happens).gizmo_logix

Have I ever said that there was no need for the extra space? Not once and with my extensive posting history on this very board and System Wars, it's beyond me that you even dare to hint that I should be anti PS3 or anti Blu-Ray.

I'm anti false information taking the focus away from the real advantage Blu-Ray offers.

And I'm also against people like Washimul making directly silly PS3 performance claims, or stating that those Lair pictures and the demo aren't possible on the 360 when both consoles clearly can do better with time.

4 games does not vouch buying a 700 dollar system...and im sure you've heard this before but let me re-iterate it..you dont HAVE to buy all the extra features for the 360..but unlike the 360 the ps3 makes you take the blu-ray and you better enjoy it lol

my little brother has a ps3 and i have a wii and xbox 360...we play my wii60 combo WAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYY more than the pscrap..my mom said she cant believe she wasted freakin 700 dollars on that **** system will become good once the usual games come out like mgs,final fantasy,devil may cry,gt, and the other typical sequels for the ps3 but even then is that enough to actually justify buying this piece of **** idk anobleloss

4 games does not vouch buying a 700 dollar system...and im sure you've heard this before but let me re-iterate it..you dont HAVE to buy all the extra features for the 360..but unlike the 360 the ps3 makes you take the blu-ray and you better enjoy it lol

anobleloss

my mom bought that black piece of **** for my brother..and its starting to look like a gray piece of **** from all the dust its gathering... anobleloss

im about to go in his room now and spit on it

To think that we still aren't seeing all the PS3 is capable of and these screens are incredible and the gameplay vids are unreal. Can't wait for this game to drop.

4 games does not vouch buying a 700 dollar system...and im sure you've heard this before but let me re-iterate it..you dont HAVE to buy all the extra features for the 360..but unlike the 360 the ps3 makes you take the blu-ray and you better enjoy it lol

anobleloss

im about to go in his room now and spit on it

anobleloss

4 games does not vouch buying a 700 dollar system...and im sure you've heard this before but let me re-iterate it..you dont HAVE to buy all the extra features for the 360..but unlike the 360 the ps3 makes you take the blu-ray and you better enjoy it lol

anobleloss