why not make the UK an enemy or an antagonist, because the USA isnt the only country that has done wrong.
Why do America(ns) always have to be the good guys ?
This topic is locked from further discussion.
[QUOTE="redskins2156"]Another good idea would be a operative for a country that sales weapons and supplies to a rogue dictator, all the while shaking hands with a allie that freed his country in a earlier time. Knowing that his weapons and supplies would be used against the country that helped free his. This operative wouldn't see alot of action, since his leadership and him much rather sit in the back seat and take sweet deals from this dictator than doing the right thing and that would help a country/ allie that was once there for his country. Or better yet play as a dictator that arrests civialians for wanting freedom and then getting to chose how you execute them without any court of law. For every ten you execute then you unlock death squads. After 5 death squads unlocked then you get to unlock the magic that makes others think you are in the right, and the ones calling your evil doings evil as being wrong and war mungers. Or you can play as an individual that gets to make up reasons why a family member did something wrong and you get to kill them for dishonoring you. But anyway it is amazing what happen to the French. They fought like gods against russia for what 11 or 12 years and held them off. To only be taught in schools about the horrors of war and that there is no such thing as being a hero to fall to Germany years later in less than 30 days. Guys there is true evil in this world, and there is the ones that stand against it. Learn the truth, and stand for truth, and hopefully you will learn what is right and what is wrong, what is evil and what is'nt evil. I hope people stand up for what is right and stand along side of those that fight for what is right. There is a right and there is a wrong, now what side are you standing on? It's just too bad that most of the wars the US got into post WW2 were just 1-ups against the Soviet Union and essentially were just forcing the Democracy rhetoric onto other countries. That is the number one reasons for the wars the US get into and the reason why countries hate them. There hasn't been any black and white wars since WW2 and the reason why WW2 games are the more dominant FPS's is because the crimes Nazi Germany were doing were worth stopping and clearly wrong and the world needed to stop the injustice. There hasn't been a black and white war since then.I'd love to play a game with Americans being the bad guys. Another good idea is, America committing false flag attacks, and using them to invade other nations. [QUOTE="Raid3nsnake"]they are also war junkies and really do make the perfect bad guy if you think of it. make a game where the US invade another country claiming to find weapons cause said country is a threat when in reality they just want to slowly take over the country and turn it into a puppet state by instilling their own politics and terrorizing the people. The good guys would then be a rebel group trying to end the tyranny........GreyFoXX4
There hasn't been any black and white wars since WW2 and the reason why WW2 games are the more dominant FPS's is because the crimes Nazi Germany were doing were worth stopping and clearly wrong and the world needed to stop the injustice.supa_badmanExcept the USA (and the rest of the world) weren't interested in stopping the Nazis' crimes and injustice. The USA just finally realised it had to do something or they'd all be forced to speak Japanese soon enough and everyone agreed that learning how to write kanji seemed like a pain in the arse and an awful lot more work than developing a bomb and dropping it on a country.
To answer the initial question, it's most likely due to the huge western market. People need to be able to familiarize themselves with the main character. Thus the ever frequent American protagonist.
The rest of this thread pretty much summed up my history classes in highschool/college, minus the hate.
I appreciate my country (The U.S.), although I'm very aware of the sins it has so willfully commited. I don't condone the acts and I dont enjoy thinking about them. Dwelling on painfull events is never a productive practice. As human beings we should all try to be productive and helpfull.
To the pitiful man who is so "gung-ho" about the Marine "core", you should really reanalyze your options in life. If wielding a weapon and murdering for the sake of your superior is your dream carrier, than i utterly pity you. My grandfather Invaded Iwo-jima, and participated in many other mind-scathing battles his carrier as a member of glorified Marines in World War II. To this day, it has caused him indescribable grief, agony, and unrest. If you actualy WANT to participate in War like activities you honestly have no understanding of the value of life. Truly an unfortunate circumstance.
I'd say Germany is a superpower too , as well as China.But a modern Germany vs. Usa conflict wouldn't have a nice repercussion lol.Unless it was space german marines vs aliens. :PBecause they're world's only Superpower right now.
supa_badman
[QUOTE="clicketyclick"][QUOTE="shabab12"] your view on the taliban proves you have been sucked into the american media, just like peoples views on hezbullah. wake up, the western world commit atrocities just like any other country in the world. shabab12sweetheart, I'm from Canada. And my view on the taliban is based on what they say about themselves. I'm going to take a wild guess from your defense of the taliban, hezbollah, moral equivalency between terrorists groups and the West, and name "shabab" that you're arab. Not to be accusatory or anything, but when you start throwing around assumptions like that I've been "sucked into the american media", I think it's fair to point out what may be a source of your own bias. On a seperate note, i see where you are comming from on this thread. My frustration was really at the people who are like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=249JaIaubVw I find it amazing to come into this thread and see the majority of people in this thread believeing the USA is 'the worlds knight in shing armor' as if all they ever do is good. Im born and bred in london and i can admit that what the UK govenment has done throughout history, no matter how much good they have done, is seriously undermined by, and lets face it, the practicaly war crimes they have comitted.
American isn't perfect. As I stated there are lots, and LOTS of problems here, with our foreign policy, with our DOMESTIC policy... Naomi Wolf has a documentary out on a presentation called "The End of America" (available on NetFlix) which does an impressive, thoroughly researchedjob of equating the actions of the Facists in pre-war Germany and the rise of Hitler's state, and the ten steps or major strokes used by the Nazis to take power and dominate the German landscape socially, politically, militarily, and financially to ensure complete control, and the parallels which can be drawn to the G.W. Bush Administration and post Patriot Act America. I suggest that everyone here watch it. I have been a victim of abuses at the hands of police, politicians, editors, and airport security as outlined in Naomi's book & film of her lecture... it's no BS.
When I lived in the UK during 1984 I went to Trafalgar Square on a Sunday in London and I had my ethnocentrism broken wide open by protesters and speakers outlining the dangers of Ronald Regan's administration to dot the European continent and British Isles with cruise missiles. Suddenly, I was faced with the reality that because my government had a problem with the Ruskies, they were wanting to install a missile in the UK making it a first-strike target should the Russians decide to push The Button. This beautiful, sunny day could be marred by the sun being blotted out by missile trails. I could get blown up just for being there in London on a sunny day. And I knew then that American government was not always wearing the Good Guy hat. The British as well as continental Europe was being used as the board in a Chess game no one would win once the piecesstartedbeing captured off of it, tit-for-tat. I knew we were wrong then, and I have known when we were wrong and have admitted to it and/ or publicly questioned& attacked those indescretions (or in some cases, outright crimminal behaviors) and sometimes I did so with knowlege that I might be arrested or possibly worse, but at least I know that living in this country, I have a right to openly question what my government does without fear of reprisals against myself or my circle. They have made life inconvenient for me since 9/11, but I am still free inspite of it all and sitting here to tell the tale again.
Many monks, artists, writers, philosophers, and more in North Vietnam can't say the same. They either left the country with what they could carry never to be allowed to return, or they were thrown in jail or murdered for going outside the State's mandates. But they were not allowed the choices and the freedoms I still enjoy as an American today.
Bash it if you like, call us a Red White & Blue Wendigo... demonize Betsy Ross for sewing the Stars & Stripes and decry her work as akin to the Nazi bastardization of the Swastika symbol, run until you drop over breathless about how lame or evil we can be. I'll cop to it, all of it. But at the same time, there are things we as Americans can take great pride in, and one of those things is the Constitution, which, try as some might, has not become toilet paper. It's a carefully worded document which our founding fathers put a lot of work into in order that this country should not fall victim to the abuses of power other countries' constituencieshad suffered through. We have not suffered at the hands of our own leaders nearly as others have in their countries. You are still pretty damned free and you can live without fear when it boils down to the essence.
I'll take that, any day.
I wonder how much hate America got in this thread...
Anyway, it's probably because devs like money. Amercia, whether you like it or not, is the biggest market for gaming. If your game doesn't appeal to the widest audience and you won't be able to make much money off it, why bother?
@clickety: I'm trying to give you THEIR view on it. sorry for not making it clearer.Laser_HunterThe Taliban doesn't view themselves as defending villages when they're attacking them. They view themselves as defending their religion and their right to practice and force others to practice their religion in their own country. And they'll kill as many people as necessary in the course of 'defending' their religion, regardless of whether they are foreigners or Afghanis: foreigners for threatening their ability to enforce their religion, Afghanis for not following their religion. If foreign troops weren't in Afghanistan, they would still be killing their own people. [QUOTE="dkjestrup"]I want a WWII game in the perspective of an honourable German soldier that later becomes an officer, that's simply fighting for his country. If done right could show people what really happened. wait... what do you mean "what really happened"... :-/ Well many people still think Germans are murderous brutes. They really weren't as bad as the Japs or the Russians.
[QUOTE="clicketyclick"][QUOTE="MonkeySpot"] The Taliban doesn't view themselves as defending villages when they're attacking them. They view themselves as defending their religion and their right to practice and force others to practice their religion in their own country. And they'll kill as many people as necessary in the course of 'defending' their religion, regardless of whether they are foreigners or Afghanis: foreigners for threatening their ability to enforce their religion, Afghanis for not following their religion. If foreign troops weren't in Afghanistan, they would still be killing their own people. [QUOTE="dkjestrup"]I want a WWII game in the perspective of an honourable German soldier that later becomes an officer, that's simply fighting for his country. If done right could show people what really happened.dkjestrupwait... what do you mean "what really happened"... :-/ Well many people still think Germans are murderous brutes. They really weren't as bad as the Japs or the Russians.
regardless of the behaviour of some German soldiers, I still don't think a game where you play someone fighting for Nazism and killing allied soldiers would go down too well...
Because if they made America the bad guys, a lot of the "patriotic" people in the US would speak out about it. Then it would bring up the morality of video games and how they are influencing kids again and we may not see another GTA game again. All in all I think it's because the gaming industry recognizes the threat of idealistically brainwashed puppets to their gaming empire.
cuz were a superpower democracy
[QUOTE="clicketyclick"][QUOTE="shabab12"] your view on the taliban proves you have been sucked into the american media, just like peoples views on hezbullah. wake up, the western world commit atrocities just like any other country in the world. shabab12sweetheart, I'm from Canada. And my view on the taliban is based on what they say about themselves. I'm going to take a wild guess from your defense of the taliban, hezbollah, moral equivalency between terrorists groups and the West, and name "shabab" that you're arab. Not to be accusatory or anything, but when you start throwing around assumptions like that I've been "sucked into the american media", I think it's fair to point out what may be a source of your own bias. On a seperate note, i see where you are comming from on this thread. My frustration was really at the people who are like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=249JaIaubVw I find it amazing to come into this thread and see the majority of people in this thread believeing the USA is 'the worlds knight in shing armor' as if all they ever do is good. Im born and bred in london and i can admit that what the UK govenment has done throughout history, no matter how much good they have done, is seriously undermined by, and lets face it, the practicaly war crimes they have comitted. Yeah well that's probably because the British are the only ones humble about WW2. Everyone else (of the Allies) brags about it. The US brags about it. The Soviets brag about it. Hell even the French brag about it. It's like the UK is the only one who admits they were close to defeat.
This is getting out of hand...
LOL war....You kids dont even know what WAR is like.....In a real WAR we would be able to completely take over multiple counties in a few years. Today we drop leaflets over the towns we invade....then we question why the terrorists are moving from town to town, we can only use certain size bullets cause bigger guns are too brutal against people, only shot when fired upon or even when someone is hit.....
We are at WAR but its America and their lets be nice to every enemy and help them......As we fight terrorists in their country, they are bombing ours and buliding what they want in that War zone.....Building a 13ft mega mosque in the graveyard of 3,000 Americans at ground Zero???They are not fighting us with guns, but with money and the ignorance of our leaders....
They believe in scripture so long ago that it just does not apply today....That they are all willing to support their cause in some way....Sheep in wolves clothing.....Its their feeling that they need to convert the entire worldn and most of the views are very Radical..
Well said. But I view it as something very similar to the "war" on crime of the 1920s. It's more that you can't justly go around arresting (in this case killing) every person in an area you suspect to be doing something illegal (in this case radical) than that it would be too "brutal" against people. It just feels more like a policing than a war to me. A question you need to ask is why are we policing somewhere that we have no right to be policing in the first place?LOL war....You kids dont even know what WAR is like.....In a real WAR we would be able to completely take over multiple counties in a few years. Today we drop leaflets over the towns we invade....then we question why the terrorists are moving from town to town, we can only use certain size bullets cause bigger guns are too brutal against people, only shot when fired upon or even when someone is hit.....
We are at WAR but its America and their lets be nice to every enemy and help them......As we fight terrorists in their country, they are bombing ours and buliding what they want in that War zone.....Building a 13ft mega mosque in the graveyard of 3,000 Americans at ground Zero???They are not fighting us with guns, but with money and the ignorance of our leaders....
They believe in scripture so long ago that it just does not apply today....That they are all willing to support their cause in some way....Sheep in wolves clothing.....Its their feeling that they need to convert the entire worldn and most of the views are very Radical..TJSAGE
LOL war....You kids dont even know what WAR is like.....In a real WAR we would be able to completely take over multiple counties in a few years. Today we drop leaflets over the towns we invade....then we question why the terrorists are moving from town to town, we can only use certain size bullets cause bigger guns are too brutal against people, only shot when fired upon or even when someone is hit.....
We are at WAR but its America and their lets be nice to every enemy and help them......As we fight terrorists in their country, they are bombing ours and buliding what they want in that War zone.....Building a 13ft mega mosque in the graveyard of 3,000 Americans at ground Zero???They are not fighting us with guns, but with money and the ignorance of our leaders....
They believe in scripture so long ago that it just does not apply today....That they are all willing to support their cause in some way....Sheep in wolves clothing.....Its their feeling that they need to convert the entire worldn and most of the views are very Radical..
TJSAGE
Kids? I think you are misinformed, sir.
First off a Marine or a Soldier in the U.S. Military does not murder, or kill for their superiors. They fight so you can have the opportunity to call them murderers, they fight to let you sleep at night in peace on your own homeland, they fight to protect our freedoms, they fight to shed the light of freedom to those that are trounced upon by their leaders, they fight with pride. And I can't beleive your grandfather would appreciate the fact you are calling him a murderer either.To answer the initial question, it's most likely due to the huge western market. People need to be able to familiarize themselves with the main character. Thus the ever frequent American protagonist.
The rest of this thread pretty much summed up my history classes in highschool/college, minus the hate.
I appreciate my country (The U.S.), although I'm very aware of the sins it has so willfully commited. I don't condone the acts and I dont enjoy thinking about them. Dwelling on painfull events is never a productive practice. As human beings we should all try to be productive and helpfull.
To the pitiful man who is so "gung-ho" about the Marine "core", you should really reanalyze your options in life. If wielding a weapon and murdering for the sake of your superior is your dream carrier, than i utterly pity you. My grandfather Invaded Iwo-jima, and participated in many other mind-scathing battles his carrier as a member of glorified Marines in World War II. To this day, it has caused him indescribable grief, agony, and unrest. If you actualy WANT to participate in War like activities you honestly have no understanding of the value of life. Truly an unfortunate circumstance.
Chief9088
Sounds to me that you have no understanding of the value of life but your own. A Marine understands the value of everyone else's life. And an American wants everyone to live in freedom, with nothing holding you back but your own dedication. You sitting at home in a free country and won't put your own life on the line to grant others or protect our own countries life style with freedom is selfish.
First off a Marine or a Soldier in the U.S. Military does not murder, or kill for their superiors. They fight so you can have the opportunity to call them murderers, they fight to let you sleep at night in peace on your own homeland, they fight to protect our freedoms, they fight to shed the light of freedom to those that are trounced upon by their leaders, they fight with pride. And I can't beleive your grandfather would appreciate the fact you are calling him a murderer either.[QUOTE="Chief9088"]
To answer the initial question, it's most likely due to the huge western market. People need to be able to familiarize themselves with the main character. Thus the ever frequent American protagonist.
The rest of this thread pretty much summed up my history classes in highschool/college, minus the hate.
I appreciate my country (The U.S.), although I'm very aware of the sins it has so willfully commited. I don't condone the acts and I dont enjoy thinking about them. Dwelling on painfull events is never a productive practice. As human beings we should all try to be productive and helpfull.
To the pitiful man who is so "gung-ho" about the Marine "core", you should really reanalyze your options in life. If wielding a weapon and murdering for the sake of your superior is your dream carrier, than i utterly pity you. My grandfather Invaded Iwo-jima, and participated in many other mind-scathing battles his carrier as a member of glorified Marines in World War II. To this day, it has caused him indescribable grief, agony, and unrest. If you actualy WANT to participate in War like activities you honestly have no understanding of the value of life. Truly an unfortunate circumstance.
GreyFoXX4
Sounds to me that you have no understanding of the value of life but your own. A Marine understands the value of everyone else's life. And an American wants everyone to live in freedom, with nothing holding you back but your own dedication. You sitting at home in a free country and won't put your own life on the line to grant others or protect our own countries life style with freedom is selfish.
Maybe it is selfish but as you said aren't the marines fighting for our right to be selfish? Our right to abstain from participating in something we do not support? Yet despite the fact that there are people willing to fight and die for our freedoms, congress is still pushing to pass bills that take them away. If anything I believe that they are disrespecting the corps more than any random guy on a gaming forum is by taking what these people fought and died for and turning it into the opposite of what it was.First off a Marine or a Soldier in the U.S. Military does not murder, or kill for their superiors. They fight so you can have the opportunity to call them murderers, they fight to let you sleep at night in peace on your own homeland, they fight to protect our freedoms, they fight to shed the light of freedom to those that are trounced upon by their leaders, they fight with pride. And I can't beleive your grandfather would appreciate the fact you are calling him a murderer either.[QUOTE="Chief9088"]
To answer the initial question, it's most likely due to the huge western market. People need to be able to familiarize themselves with the main character. Thus the ever frequent American protagonist.
The rest of this thread pretty much summed up my history classes in highschool/college, minus the hate.
I appreciate my country (The U.S.), although I'm very aware of the sins it has so willfully commited. I don't condone the acts and I dont enjoy thinking about them. Dwelling on painfull events is never a productive practice. As human beings we should all try to be productive and helpfull.
To the pitiful man who is so "gung-ho" about the Marine "core", you should really reanalyze your options in life. If wielding a weapon and murdering for the sake of your superior is your dream carrier, than i utterly pity you. My grandfather Invaded Iwo-jima, and participated in many other mind-scathing battles his carrier as a member of glorified Marines in World War II. To this day, it has caused him indescribable grief, agony, and unrest. If you actualy WANT to participate in War like activities you honestly have no understanding of the value of life. Truly an unfortunate circumstance.
GreyFoXX4
Sounds to me that you have no understanding of the value of life but your own. A Marine understands the value of everyone else's life. And an American wants everyone to live in freedom, with nothing holding you back but your own dedication. You sitting at home in a free country and won't put your own life on the line to grant others or protect our own countries life style with freedom is selfish.
Please. You make soldiers look like saintly priests. Yes, they defend the country, but the power gets to their head and it gets absolutely disgusting. People have gone to war with the same mindset as Warship and those people have no intent on defending the country. Please, stop being so naive. There are both spectrums, I agree, but IMO, war transforms people in the people I showed you in the link.Hooray for ignorant Muslim stereotypes and xenophobia. >_> 'OMG! I SAW A MAN WITH A TURBAN TODAY, I THOUGHT HE WAS GOING TO BOMB EVERYONE!' Ugh...LOL war....You kids dont even know what WAR is like.....In a real WAR we would be able to completely take over multiple counties in a few years. Today we drop leaflets over the towns we invade....then we question why the terrorists are moving from town to town, we can only use certain size bullets cause bigger guns are too brutal against people, only shot when fired upon or even when someone is hit.....
We are at WAR but its America and their lets be nice to every enemy and help them......As we fight terrorists in their country, they are bombing ours and buliding what they want in that War zone.....Building a 13ft mega mosque in the graveyard of 3,000 Americans at ground Zero???They are not fighting us with guns, but with money and the ignorance of our leaders....
They believe in scripture so long ago that it just does not apply today....That they are all willing to support their cause in some way....Sheep in wolves clothing.....Its their feeling that they need to convert the entire worldn and most of the views are very Radical..
TJSAGE
[QUOTE="TJSAGE"]Hooray for ignorant Muslim stereotypes and xenophobia. >_> 'OMG! I SAW A MAN WITH A TURBAN TODAY, I THOUGHT HE WAS GOING TO BOMB EVERYONE!' Ugh...LOL war....You kids dont even know what WAR is like.....In a real WAR we would be able to completely take over multiple counties in a few years. Today we drop leaflets over the towns we invade....then we question why the terrorists are moving from town to town, we can only use certain size bullets cause bigger guns are too brutal against people, only shot when fired upon or even when someone is hit.....
We are at WAR but its America and their lets be nice to every enemy and help them......As we fight terrorists in their country, they are bombing ours and buliding what they want in that War zone.....Building a 13ft mega mosque in the graveyard of 3,000 Americans at ground Zero???They are not fighting us with guns, but with money and the ignorance of our leaders....
They believe in scripture so long ago that it just does not apply today....That they are all willing to support their cause in some way....Sheep in wolves clothing.....Its their feeling that they need to convert the entire worldn and most of the views are very Radical..
supa_badman
Agreed. The mosque is being built far away from Ground Zero, like 3 blocks or something? It's not even close.
[QUOTE="TJSAGE"]Hooray for ignorant Muslim stereotypes and xenophobia. >_> 'OMG! I SAW A MAN WITH A TURBAN TODAY, I THOUGHT HE WAS GOING TO BOMB EVERYONE!' Ugh...So what you're going to say that doesn't happen every day in other respects as well? "He's a Christian so he must be pushing his 'retarded' religion on all of us just because they had a reputation for doing that centuries ago." "He's a buddhist so he must be a cow hugging bald monk who is trying to undermine our steak industry." "He's an atheist so he must be one of those trolls who likes to go around and tell every other religion that they're wrong." With every religion there are radicals, misguided people, and stereotypes. Just because the Muslims are all over the news now doesn't mean that they're the only ones who are suffering from them.LOL war....You kids dont even know what WAR is like.....In a real WAR we would be able to completely take over multiple counties in a few years. Today we drop leaflets over the towns we invade....then we question why the terrorists are moving from town to town, we can only use certain size bullets cause bigger guns are too brutal against people, only shot when fired upon or even when someone is hit.....
We are at WAR but its America and their lets be nice to every enemy and help them......As we fight terrorists in their country, they are bombing ours and buliding what they want in that War zone.....Building a 13ft mega mosque in the graveyard of 3,000 Americans at ground Zero???They are not fighting us with guns, but with money and the ignorance of our leaders....
They believe in scripture so long ago that it just does not apply today....That they are all willing to support their cause in some way....Sheep in wolves clothing.....Its their feeling that they need to convert the entire worldn and most of the views are very Radical..
supa_badman
Because most of the developers who make the war games are American developers and they target it towards American Audiences, and the American Audience relates the most to American Soldiers. Furthermore the US have over the years had a strong sense of pride in itself and do tend to picture itself as grand and just, Patriotism in other words. Because this focus on patriotism and showing the US as being the best has been done over the years it is a part of American mindset, I'm not saying it is blind Patriotism for all. Additionally American Soldier are held in high regard by it's citizens because of the point mentioned above, again for years, so if they are not portrayed the way the American Audience views them then it is not only wrong in their eyes but also disrespectful. That's why Americans seem to always be the good guys, atleast in regards of War themed games.TreflisYes yes and yes. But what's interesting is that a lot of the VG market also comes from Japan. Yet it's perfectly fine to antagonize them, yet even in the Japanese released games, the US (or the fictional nation meant to portray the US) are always the "good guys".
Yes yes and yes. But what's interesting is that a lot of the VG market also comes from Japan. Yet it's perfectly fine to antagonize them, yet even in the Japanese released games, the US (or the fictional nation meant to portray the US) are always the "good guys".You're thinking of Squaresoft, Namco, Konami, Sega, Nintendo and Capcom I assume. Yes, But that is because they dare to release games on the International market, Most Japanese developers tend to only develop games of the Japanese and possibly the Asian market only. Those I've mentioned are the ones who are showing that us Western people can find their games enjoyable. And as far as your point goes, the one about them also portraying the US as the good guys, That is because they've seen that is what makes the West relate to the games, like I stated in my previos post, so naturally the mimic that so to have their games be more successful in the west. It's a deliberate choice based on observations they've made, though there are exception. =3[QUOTE="Treflis"]Because most of the developers who make the war games are American developers and they target it towards American Audiences, and the American Audience relates the most to American Soldiers. Furthermore the US have over the years had a strong sense of pride in itself and do tend to picture itself as grand and just, Patriotism in other words. Because this focus on patriotism and showing the US as being the best has been done over the years it is a part of American mindset, I'm not saying it is blind Patriotism for all. Additionally American Soldier are held in high regard by it's citizens because of the point mentioned above, again for years, so if they are not portrayed the way the American Audience views them then it is not only wrong in their eyes but also disrespectful. That's why Americans seem to always be the good guys, atleast in regards of War themed games.mauiboynokaoi
[QUOTE="mauiboynokaoi"]Yes yes and yes. But what's interesting is that a lot of the VG market also comes from Japan. Yet it's perfectly fine to antagonize them, yet even in the Japanese released games, the US (or the fictional nation meant to portray the US) are always the "good guys".You're thinking of Squaresoft, Namco, Konami, Sega, Nintendo and Capcom I assume. Yes, But that is because they dare to release games on the International market, Most Japanese developers tend to only develop games of the Japanese and possibly the Asian market only. Those I've mentioned are the ones who are showing that us Western people can find their games enjoyable. And as far as your point goes, the one about them also portraying the US as the good guys, That is because they've seen that is what makes the West relate to the games, like I stated in my previos post, so naturally the mimic that so to have their games be more successful in the west. It's a deliberate choice based on observations they've made, though there are exception. =3True but what I don't understand is why they don't support AT LEAST multiple campaigns featuring perspectives from both the "good guys" and the "bad guys". Take Company of Heroes Opposing Fronts for example. They had a campaign centered around the German Panzer Elite of WW2 and their game still got some good reviews (maybe not in the MP department but still). And I think that OP was referring to how the US is always portrayed as the good guys while giving little to no remorse to the opposing side. Hell if they made a CoD that featured a German/Israeli campaign, I might give it another shot. But until then, it's just the same things over and over.[QUOTE="Treflis"]Because most of the developers who make the war games are American developers and they target it towards American Audiences, and the American Audience relates the most to American Soldiers. Furthermore the US have over the years had a strong sense of pride in itself and do tend to picture itself as grand and just, Patriotism in other words. Because this focus on patriotism and showing the US as being the best has been done over the years it is a part of American mindset, I'm not saying it is blind Patriotism for all. Additionally American Soldier are held in high regard by it's citizens because of the point mentioned above, again for years, so if they are not portrayed the way the American Audience views them then it is not only wrong in their eyes but also disrespectful. That's why Americans seem to always be the good guys, atleast in regards of War themed games.Treflis
[QUOTE="TJSAGE"]As we fight terrorists in their country, they are bombing ours and buliding what they want in that War zone.....Building a 13ft mega mosque in the graveyard of 3,000 Americans at ground Zero???They are not fighting us with guns, but with money and the ignorance of our leaders....supa_badmanHooray for ignorant Muslim stereotypes and xenophobia. >_> 'OMG! I SAW A MAN WITH A TURBAN TODAY, I THOUGHT HE WAS GOING TO BOMB EVERYONE!' Ugh... How is that ignorant, stereotypical, or xenophobic? He's right to connect the mega mosque in NY with the terrorists, or at least their brand of religious supremacism. The Cordoba Initiative spent 4 million dollars to purchase a plot of land containing a historic, 150-year-old building standing 2 blocks from the former site of the World Trade Center. Then demolish that building. Then build a mosque at the cost of 100 million dollars. And the Cordoba Initiative's stated goal is to "promote cross-cultural understanding between Islam and the West." Maybe I give them credit - maybe they really were that idiotic that they really didn't anticipate that people would be outraged by an Islamic organisation destroying buildings and building a mega mosque right near the place where another Islamic organisation destroyed buildings - and 3000 people in those buildings. But at this point, it is readily apparent that people are outraged. So what would an organisation that is dedicated to promoting cross-cultural understanding do in such a situation? Well, they would put a stop to their plans once they noticed that their plans were having the opposite effect and actually inflaming tensions. That would demonstrate good faith on their part. But that's not what the Cordoba Initiative did. They pressed forward with their plans, all in the name of promoting cross-cultural understanding and friendship. Now why would an organisation supposedly dedicated to this spend $104 million on a plan that obviously only promoting tensions? The imam of this projected mega-mosque is one who promotes Sharia - Islamic law - in the USA and thinks all countries should be under Islamic law, even democratic ones. And of course, the imam refused to sign a pledge issued by former Muslims who were under death threats, to promise that he would repudiate the threat of sharia to the religious freedom of those who choose to leave Islam. This is an imam who calls for restrictions on freedom of speech and criticises the USA for not being like the Middle-East in this respect. Who refuses to describe Hamas as a terrorist organisation. The same imam who was quoted by the Cairo University as saying (in Arabic, of course): "I do not believe in religious dialogue." The same imam who said, on CBS News, that Americans are an "accessory" to the 9/11 attacks. There's also a question of finances. Where is this money coming from? Afaik, the Cordoba Initiative has refused to reveal their financial records. Presumably also to promote cross-cultural understanding. But I do think it is a valid question, considering their imam praised the Saudi Wahhabi school of Islam for rejuvenating religious spirit. He praised its founder, al-Wahhab, his inspiration, Ibn Taymiyyah, and its defenders and promoters, al-Dinal-Afghani and Muhammad Abduh. Ibn Taymiyyah issued fatwas about imposing Islamic law on non-Muslim populations, among the other intolerant things he said and did. So yes, I would say it was quite fair of TJSAGE to be critical of the new mega-mosque.
America is the land of the Free... But if you read Click's post ^^^ above, Canada is obviously the home of the Well-Informed. If you glossed over it, go back. Read it. This is the only voice on this thread I respect. It's TRUTH. It's INFORMED. Thanks, Neighbor To The North!!!
And anyone who makes light of a soldier in this country is a coward. Don't dare to profane the names and honor of real men throughout history, who picked up a real gun so that you could sit in your living room and pick up a controller. I want peace and understanding, open dialogue, and a world where my nephew won't live in fear. A world where he can grow up and have friends in different countries, where he can raise a family and not fear for THEIR lives. Sometimes the "bad guy" needs to be removed. Extremists believe us (USA) to be one of those "bad guy" types, so sometimes we must think of them as "bad guys". Sometimes we must pull a trigger. Sometimes **** gets blown up. Sometimes civilians die.
Thst's WAR.
If they want us off the planet, it's going to be a fight. If they stop, we'll stop. There is not one person in this country who would allow the systematic extermination of the Muslim peoples or the destruction of the Middle East. We would lay down our weapons if they lay down theirs. Do you think the extremists (again, not all Muslims, but EXTREMISTS) would stop before their religiously driven agenda was taken to the hilt?
Stop pontificating if you don't want to get involved. The faces on the evening news make me sad. Young people dying is a crime. But allowing our way of life to be changed or destroyed my a MINORITY RELIGIOUSLY DRIVEN GROUP will not... NOT happen.
Period.
Thanks Click. I'm buying you a drink someday.
Hey, maybe we could grab a drink together in the gay bar that Greg Gutfield is planning to open up right next to the mega mosque in the same spirit of tolerance and outreach that the Cordoba Initiative/Park51 so exemplifies. :P Or maybe not so much.Thanks Click. I'm buying you a drink someday.
MonkeySpot
So just because someone reads up on conspiracy theories and believes the conclusions drawn from paranoid "informers" who jump to conclusions based on inconclusive evidence, that makes them well-informed? Well in that case am I well informed to state that I think the Church of Scientology is using the "facts and laws" of science in order to control the majority of the population just as the various religions before it did? That may very well be the case, but with no solid and conclusive evidence to back it up, it's just theory. Am I also well informed to say that the only reason Obama got into office was because the war in Iraq wasn't gaining the popularity that the US thought it would so they needed to instate a Muslim president in order to quell animosities between American patriots and the Muslims before pulling out of the war? Am I also well informed to say that I think the 9/11 attacks were entirely a setup by the US government to give them an excuse to invade the middle east because their oil reserves were running dry and they had everything to gain by bringing down the world trade center? And finally am I well informed to say that I think that Area 51 is not a top secret Air Force base but that it's actually a site where the government is using to experiment on and reverse engineer extraterrestrials and their technology? Hell there's a lot of evidence supporting each of the claims but, as I said earlier, they all come up as inconclusive. They could all be a part of what Adolf Hitler referred to as "The Big Lie" (a lie so huge and incredible that none of the population would believe that anyone could distort the truth to that extent and would accept it as true) but we don't know that for sure. Saying someone is well informed because they read up on conspiracy theories that may just be a string of events that just so happened to be strung together in a way that made it seem suspicious is no different than thinking someone is well informed for believing everything that tabloid magazines put out.America is the land of the Free... But if you read Click's post ^^^ above, Canada is obviously the home of the Well-Informed. If you glossed over it, go back. Read it. This is the only voice on this thread I respect. It's TRUTH. It's INFORMED. Thanks, Neighbor To The North!!!
And anyone who makes light of a soldier in this country is a coward. Don't dare to profane the names and honor of real men throughout history, who picked up a real gun so that you could sit in your living room and pick up a controller. I want peace and understanding, open dialogue, and a world where my nephew won't live in fear. A world where he can grow up and have friends in different countries, where he can raise a family and not fear for THEIR lives. Sometimes the "bad guy" needs to be removed. Extremists believe us (USA) to be one of those "bad guy" types, so sometimes we must think of them as "bad guys". Sometimes we must pull a trigger. Sometimes **** gets blown up. Sometimes civilians die.
Thst's WAR.
If they want us off the planet, it's going to be a fight. If they stop, we'll stop. There is not one person in this country who would allow the systematic extermination of the Muslim peoples or the destruction of the Middle East. We would lay down our weapons if they lay down theirs. Do you think the extremists (again, not all Muslims, but EXTREMISTS) would stop before their religiously driven agenda was taken to the hilt?
Stop pontificating if you don't want to get involved. The faces on the evening news make me sad. Young people dying is a crime. But allowing our way of life to be changed or destroyed my a MINORITY RELIGIOUSLY DRIVEN GROUP will not... NOT happen.
Period.
Thanks Click. I'm buying you a drink someday.
MonkeySpot
So just because someone reads up on conspiracy theories and believes the conclusions drawn from paranoid "informers" who jump to conclusions based on inconclusive evidence, that makes them well-informed?mauiboynokaoiNo, but reading parts of said imam's own books, reading interviews with him wherein he states his views, and being able to use basic logical reasoning to see hypocrisy does.
You're thinking of Squaresoft, Namco, Konami, Sega, Nintendo and Capcom I assume. Yes, But that is because they dare to release games on the International market, Most Japanese developers tend to only develop games of the Japanese and possibly the Asian market only. Those I've mentioned are the ones who are showing that us Western people can find their games enjoyable. And as far as your point goes, the one about them also portraying the US as the good guys, That is because they've seen that is what makes the West relate to the games, like I stated in my previos post, so naturally the mimic that so to have their games be more successful in the west. It's a deliberate choice based on observations they've made, though there are exception. =3True but what I don't understand is why they don't support AT LEAST multiple campaigns featuring perspectives from both the "good guys" and the "bad guys". Take Company of Heroes Opposing Fronts for example. They had a campaign centered around the German Panzer Elite of WW2 and their game still got some good reviews (maybe not in the MP department but still). And I think that OP was referring to how the US is always portrayed as the good guys while giving little to no remorse to the opposing side. Hell if they made a CoD that featured a German/Israeli campaign, I might give it another shot. But until then, it's just the same things over and over.I do have to agree, It would be neat to play a game where you can see a conflict though the eyes of one considered the enemy, maybe not with games revolving present day conflicts, though that wouldn't be too horrible in my opinion, but past wars. For instance have a WW2 game where you have your typical US, British and Russian soldiers's view and then you also have a Japanese, German and even Italian, they were on the axis side in the beginning of the war, soldier's view. Afterall not all the soldiers on the axis side were fanatical psychos.[QUOTE="Treflis"][QUOTE="mauiboynokaoi"]Yes yes and yes. But what's interesting is that a lot of the VG market also comes from Japan. Yet it's perfectly fine to antagonize them, yet even in the Japanese released games, the US (or the fictional nation meant to portray the US) are always the "good guys".
mauiboynokaoi
[QUOTE="mauiboynokaoi"]So just because someone reads up on conspiracy theories and believes the conclusions drawn from paranoid "informers" who jump to conclusions based on inconclusive evidence, that makes them well-informed?clicketyclickNo, but reading parts of said imam's own books, reading interviews with him wherein he states his views, and being able to use basic logical reasoning to see hypocrisy does.Yes but it is still speculation no matter how logical it is. In the real world, there is no such thing as an explicit argument. Every argument is implicit and thus every conclusion is implied. The best you can have is what is referred to as conclusive evidence. This means having a confession, taped/otherwise recorded highly undisputable proof of something, or any other means that could justly convict someone of an action. In the US law system, anything short of conclusive evidence is referred to as circumstancial and thus very weak in a court of law (and there's a reason for that).
[QUOTE="mauiboynokaoi"]True but what I don't understand is why they don't support AT LEAST multiple campaigns featuring perspectives from both the "good guys" and the "bad guys". Take Company of Heroes Opposing Fronts for example. They had a campaign centered around the German Panzer Elite of WW2 and their game still got some good reviews (maybe not in the MP department but still). And I think that OP was referring to how the US is always portrayed as the good guys while giving little to no remorse to the opposing side. Hell if they made a CoD that featured a German/Israeli campaign, I might give it another shot. But until then, it's just the same things over and over.I do have to agree, It would be neat to play a game where you can see a conflict though the eyes of one considered the enemy, maybe not with games revolving present day conflicts, though that wouldn't be too horrible in my opinion, but past wars. For instance have a WW2 game where you have your typical US, British and Russian soldiers's view and then you also have a Japanese, German and even Italian, they were on the axis side in the beginning of the war, soldier's view. Afterall not all the soldiers on the axis side were fanatical psychos.That would be pretty neat. Playing as the Italians would give the player a feel of playing a weaker side of the war who even though on were on the verge of losing continued to fight against unfavorable odds. Similar to the Chinese in the beginning of the Second Sino-Japanese War (which led up into WW2). An even more interesting faction to play IMO would be the French (seeing as how there was Free France and Vichy France on opposing fronts of the war). Still developing a game with that much scope would probably be an expensive hassle so for now, I would be happy with a game with just the Germans of WW2.[QUOTE="Treflis"]You're thinking of Squaresoft, Namco, Konami, Sega, Nintendo and Capcom I assume. Yes, But that is because they dare to release games on the International market, Most Japanese developers tend to only develop games of the Japanese and possibly the Asian market only. Those I've mentioned are the ones who are showing that us Western people can find their games enjoyable. And as far as your point goes, the one about them also portraying the US as the good guys, That is because they've seen that is what makes the West relate to the games, like I stated in my previos post, so naturally the mimic that so to have their games be more successful in the west. It's a deliberate choice based on observations they've made, though there are exception. =3Treflis
No, but reading parts of said imam's own books, reading interviews with him wherein he states his views, and being able to use basic logical reasoning to see hypocrisy does.Yes but it is still speculation no matter how logical it is. In the real world, there is no such thing as an explicit argument. Every argument is implicit and thus every conclusion is implied. The best you can have is what is referred to as conclusive evidence. This means having a confession, taped/otherwise recorded highly undisputable proof of something, or any other means that could justly convict someone of an action. In the US law system, anything short of conclusive evidence is referred to as circumstancial and thus very weak in a court of law (and there's a reason for that). A confession of what? What I've presented is evidence that the imam of the mosque is not some nice "moderate" by his own words. And that at this point, the Cordoba Initiative has proved, by their own actions, that they cannot possibly be dedicated to promoting cross-cultural understanding and friendship. You want to talk in legal terms? Ok. A fundamental concept and assumption in law is that people intend the natural consequences of their actions. As such, the Cordoba Initiative intended the natural and foreseeable - and now definitely seen - consequence of theirs: provocation.[QUOTE="clicketyclick"][QUOTE="mauiboynokaoi"]So just because someone reads up on conspiracy theories and believes the conclusions drawn from paranoid "informers" who jump to conclusions based on inconclusive evidence, that makes them well-informed?mauiboynokaoi
[QUOTE="mauiboynokaoi"]Yes but it is still speculation no matter how logical it is. In the real world, there is no such thing as an explicit argument. Every argument is implicit and thus every conclusion is implied. The best you can have is what is referred to as conclusive evidence. This means having a confession, taped/otherwise recorded highly undisputable proof of something, or any other means that could justly convict someone of an action. In the US law system, anything short of conclusive evidence is referred to as circumstancial and thus very weak in a court of law (and there's a reason for that). A confession of what? What I've presented is evidence that the imam of the mosque is not some nice "moderate" by his own words. And that at this point, the Cordoba Initiative has proved, by their own actions, that they cannot possibly be dedicated to promoting cross-cultural understanding and friendship. You want to talk in legal terms? Ok. A fundamental concept and assumption in law is that people intend the natural consequences of their actions. As such, the Cordoba Initiative intended the natural and foreseeable - and now definitely seen - consequence of theirs: provocation.OK so you have circumstancial evidence and a motive. The lack of hard evidence or witnesses still makes it just as credible as the tabloids from my perspective. You've also (implicitly) uncovered that their stated intentions cannot be true, but without a proper investigation, it makes no sense to base a conclusion off of something that is so vague.[QUOTE="clicketyclick"] No, but reading parts of said imam's own books, reading interviews with him wherein he states his views, and being able to use basic logical reasoning to see hypocrisy does.clicketyclick
OK so you have circumstancial evidence and a motive. The lack of hard evidence or witnesses still makes it just as credible as the tabloids from my perspective. You've also (implicitly) uncovered that their stated intentions cannot be true, but without a proper investigation, it makes no sense to base a conclusion off of something that is so vague.mauiboynokaoi
Witnesses? Why do you need witnesses when their own words and actions testify against them? I think the key thing you're missing here is the basic logic to take you from premises to conclusion. It only takes the most basic logic to conclude from the observation of people who are aware that their actions are inflammatory and persist with those actions that these people aren't concerned with easing tensions and creating friendships. If someone beats you up, do you need a witness and fingerprints to determine whether or not that was a friendly overture meant to ease tensions?
If you think that even implementing such basic logic as that is somehow suspect, I wonder how you manage to cross the street in the morning. The reasoning that takes you from the observation of an oncoming car, the comprehension of its mass, speed, and momentum, compared to your mass, to the natural consequences of such a collision is far more demanding on logical reasoning than merely concluding that someone who acts like a douche, is aware that people think he's acting like a douche, but continues to act like a douche, is in fact a troll and dgaf.
But all that aside, I'm not trying to convict anyone in a court of law of anything. I'm merely trying to show why it perfectly reasonable - and not xenophobic or stereotyping of muslims - to be critical of the new mega mosque, and its imam's words and their actions are certainly enough for that.
In fact, the only xenophobic things in this are the fatwas issued by the Islamic jurist this imam praises, and the only one casting a negative stereotype on Muslims is the imam himself: ah yes, another Muslim religious leader who refuses to condemn terrorist organisations, blames americans for 9/11, wants to introduce Sharia into the USA because apparently the secular law isn't good enough for his religious community and the separation between church and state doesn't seem very important to him, wants to restrict freedom of speech, and is quite enamoured with Wahhabi Islam.
And then the Cordoba Initiative turns around and criticises a man who wants to build a gay bar near their mosque for offending muslim sensibilities saying this does not build dialog, whilst apparently remaining unconcerned about how their building of that very mosque near ground zero offends new yorkers' sensibilities and does not build dialog. But I guess that's not too hypocritical, considering their imam said he doesn't believe in religious dialog in the first place!
Ah yes, nothing wrong with this picture. Move along folks, nothing to see here. And if you raise an eyebrow it's obviously because you're xenophobic!
The game that annoyed me most was Resistance....Why does an American have to come in and Save Britian? We managed to hold out without Americas help in WW2 (As much as Americans seem to think only them stepping in saved us which boggles my mind) I'm sure saying as thats what the lore in the games based on they could have stayed closer to actual history.
Athlo maybe it's all about sales, Americans are rather patriotic/xenophobic depeding on how you view it. Therefore Americans prefer playing as an Americanised character = more sales.
edited for spelling.
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