@tjandmia: Nowadays with biden, you have hundreds of billions of dollars spent on a sht hole called Ukraine, which btw is pretty much just another name for Russia. It's like China, Hong Kong, Taiwan. They're all just Chinese at the end of the day. The war happening now is pretty much a civil war.
Incredibly dumb take which basically mirrors Kremlin talking point. I'd add more but your statements are just false across the board.
@Maroxad: Jimmy Dore is not a leftist. He is a grifter like Dave Rubin and Tim Pool.
@tjandmia: Nowadays with biden, you have hundreds of billions of dollars spent on a sht hole called Ukraine, which btw is pretty much just another name for Russia. It's like China, Hong Kong, Taiwan. They're all just Chinese at the end of the day. The war happening now is pretty much a civil war.
Incredibly dumb take which basically mirrors Kremlin talking point. I'd add more but your statements are just false across the board.
Holy cow, what a take!
@Maroxad: Jimmy Dore is not a leftist. He is a grifter like Dave Rubin and Tim Pool.
I will take your word for it. I didnt see much of his content, from what little I did see he came across as a typical bernie or buster.
I watched one of his videos and I rolled my eyes so hard my eyeballs fell out, I spent the next couple minutes searching the floor trying to pick them up. Thankfully I found them and got my sight back.
*laughs uncontrollably*
@Maroxad: Jimmy Dore is not a leftist. He is a grifter like Dave Rubin and Tim Pool.
I will take your word for it. I didnt see much of his content, from what little I did see he came across as a typical bernie or buster.
I watched one of his videos and I rolled my eyes so hard my eyeballs fell out, I spent the next couple minutes searching the floor trying to pick them up. Thankfully I found them and got my sight back.
It's like Joe Rogan in a way. The guy proclaimed to be a Bernie supporter but backed Trump in 2016 and 2020. He says he backs his policies but votes for people antithetical to them in every way simply because 'they rock the boat'. Sh*tty excuse from a simpleton that doesn't understand politics or the legislative process.
@tjandmia: Nowadays with biden, you have hundreds of billions of dollars spent on a sht hole called Ukraine, which btw is pretty much just another name for Russia. It's like China, Hong Kong, Taiwan. They're all just Chinese at the end of the day. The war happening now is pretty much a civil war.
Incredibly dumb take which basically mirrors Kremlin talking point. I'd add more but your statements are just false across the board.
My god, the internet is an endless pit of stupidity.
@Maroxad: Jimmy Dore is not a leftist. He is a grifter like Dave Rubin and Tim Pool.
I will take your word for it. I didnt see much of his content, from what little I did see he came across as a typical bernie or buster.
I watched one of his videos and I rolled my eyes so hard my eyeballs fell out, I spent the next couple minutes searching the floor trying to pick them up. Thankfully I found them and got my sight back.
It's like Joe Rogan in a way. The guy proclaimed to be a Bernie supporter but backed Trump in 2016 and 2020. He says he backs his policies but votes for people antithetical to them in every way simply because 'they rock the boat'. Sh*tty excuse from a simpleton that doesn't understand politics or the legislative process.
A lot of Bernie supporters backed Trump in 2016. Why would they have backed the establishment candidate that cheated against Bernie?
@eoten: Show proof that Bernie supporters backed Trump.
A lot of Bernie supporters backed Trump in 2016. Why would they have backed the establishment candidate that cheated against Bernie?
I doubt that. Trump is the anti Bernie.
It's like Joe Rogan in a way. The guy proclaimed to be a Bernie supporter but backed Trump in 2016 and 2020. He says he backs his policies but votes for people antithetical to them in every way simply because 'they rock the boat'. Sh*tty excuse from a simpleton that doesn't understand politics or the legislative process.
A lot of Bernie supporters backed Trump in 2016. Why would they have backed the establishment candidate that cheated against Bernie?
Try reading again. Your answer lies within the bolded. I just have to laugh at Bernie supporters saying he was cheated too. He literally endorsed both her and Biden. The argument is so f*cking braindead that the people purporting it must have a hard time typing while they drool on their keyboards.
My only question would be:
1. Have you not find it interesting that trump already claimed fraud when lost against cruz in the primaries? That all those recounts and forensic audits ended in nothing? That the attack on capitol happened just as they were acknowledging the certification of the election? That judges appointmented by trump, the vice-president and the attorney general dismissed his claims of fraud as baseless?
Overall my questions is this, has it not cross your mind that you are supporting the very person trying to do away with democracy?
I am mean it sounds awful, and nobody wants to be that person, but look at all of the evidence. It seems fucked up to say the least.
Do I find it interesting that trump claimed fraud when lost against cruz in the primaries?
When? 2016? don't remember this. But even if true not sure why it matters.
That all those recounts and forensic audits ended in nothing?
Well that's the point of doing recounts and audits right? to make sure there are no major discrepancies? They are systems in place to double check everything. They exist for a reason. I have no issue with a recount or audit. Do you? Do we only do these things when we know for sure we will see something wrong?
That the attack on capitol happened just as they were acknowledging the certification of the election?
As I already stated the FBI stated the riot at the capital was not a planned coordinated effort to overturn the election results. The narrative that it was is ridiculous. I believe there was a large protest of 10k+ and a few hundred began to step out of line and riot. Notice how many of the people that are hyper focused on January 6th have pivoted away from the riot part and are trying now to paint a narrative that there was some Trump cabal trying to get mike pence to overthrow the government lol Its ridiculous.
That judges appointment by trump, the vice-president and the attorney general dismissed his claims of fraud as baseless?
Well that why we have judges to decide. right?
I am mean it sounds awful, and nobody wants to be that person, but look at all of the evidence. It seems fucked up to say the least.
"look at all the evidence" what evidence? what crime? what are the charges?
outside of his crazy debt spending ways, I feel like trump was fantastic. We need him back.
However, I could use less of his drama. No more malania, no more of the trump family baggage. The security cost of his family protection alone cost way too much money. We need to put a limit on the spending for the protection of family of the president. They were protecting, Donald Trum Jr, and his kids, and his kids kids. Jeeze. It got way out of hand. The money spent on mar a lago security, the weekly trips there. Its just way too much money spent. Compared to that, Biden has been far far more fiscally responsible.
Honestly, I would be happy if trump said he would be willing to cover his familys security out of his own pocket instead of shafting the tax payer.
Plus the 10 trillion or so spent in 4 years, its frankly ridiculous.
Outside of the money spent, all his other policies were fantastic.
I would be happy to see him back if he could get his spending way under control. If he can't, id rather stick with biden.
You'd be happy with someone with that many issues you don't like? What policies did you like? Tariffs only hurt American consumers. His tax cut for the wealthy was unwise. His trade act with Canada helped cause the baby food shortage.
And I can't stress this enough.......HE TRIED TO STEAL YOUR DEMOCRACY.
LOL, sorry that last part was funny. 😂😂😂
He had tons of great policies, his crackdown on the uncontrolled immigration. His attempts to build the border wall. We had tons of open discussion about immigration, and honestly with the dems blocking the wall so hard, we couldn't get more done. The tarrifs on china, which was needed. We even discussed with north korea and russia with real discussion, instead of threatening. He even tilted the supreme court, which may or may not be good according to who you ask, but he got stuff done.
The best part was, trump bashing the snakes in congress and senate on the daily LOL. His bashing of the FAKE news media, which was very welcome. His climate policies were so bad, that other countries went full tilt to support it and took the lead. Even China decided to do more after trump took us out of the paris accord. Russia came to the table too. Its ironic how that works lol. Everyone started being hysterical because of trumps stance on global warming. Say what you will, but sometimes you need a villain figure to get real shit done on some policies.
I loved it so much. It pissed off some people but man it was refreshing. People can say its not presidential or w/e that shit was great.
@sargentd: well, I'd like to ask your thoughts on trumps out of control spending. I did like alot of what he did, but unlike some people here who are all over his nuts and see trump as a messiah, I felt he had a lot of baggage. The security spending for his weekly trips to Florida to his Mar a Lago resort, then the security spending for his kids, and grand kids. The spending for his dumb mf wife who couldn't bear with staying in the white house, and instead insisted on moving to NYC of all places.
Not to mention his out of control spending. We were at 20 trillion before trump, and 28 trillion after he left. And he was literally only in office for 4 years.
I did like a lot of what he did, but I have to question whether he would have driven the country to bankruptcy with his poor money decisions.
I'd like to hear your thoughts on his spending. Honestly I feel like the right has shifted too far from the core principles of paying down our debt. We need someone who is willing to do whatever, raising taxes, cutting spending, and paying down the debt. Our next president better be a bean counting mf of an accountant.
The security spending for his weekly trips to Florida to his Mar a Lago resort, then the security spending for his kids, and grand kids. The spending for his dumb mf wife who couldn't bear with staying in the white house, and instead insisted on moving to NYC of all places.
This to me is very minor. We pay a shit ton of money to protect anyone who becomes president. Trump didn't take his salary for being president. If his security is costing too much I suppose he could afford to split the cost or something I guess? TBH I feel this is a minor thing that a lot of media hyper focused on for trump hate clicks. Melania I wouldn't call dumb. Think she speaks 5 languages. But hey speak your mind, I'm not worried about her anyway she has no real power.
Not to mention his out of control spending. We were at 20 trillion before trump, and 28 trillion after he left. And he was literally only in office for 4 years.
Yeah the spending was not good. But I actually blame democrats for this as well. Trump wanted money for the wall, Democrats wanted money to fund the arts... I'm being hyperbolic but yeah the spending was bad, remember the government shutdows over the spending bills, Trump vs Pelosi and Schumer every damn time. I got a laugh at shumer calling it the Trump shutdown and Trump come back and say no Shumer shutdown lol... The covid money is what really jacked it up too, which is something Democrats were pushing a lot more heavily than republicans, but that's because democrats supported lockdowns much more than republicans, I give the left more blame in regards to printing covid relief money. If the entire country had been more like Florida we would have been better off imo instead of democrat states extending their lockdowns and extending covid relief money to amend their lockdowns. But yeah that's more of a thing I'm mad at everyone in our government for, they all shit the bed on this one.
Honestly I feel like the right has shifted too far from the core principles of paying down our debt. We need someone who is willing to do whatever, raising taxes, cutting spending, and paying down the debt. Our next president better be a bean counting mf of an accountant.
Best guy for this would probably be a Rand Paul. But I don't think he can win. The democrats/media will bully Rand into the ground. Trumps not perfect but I though he did a much better job than the few presidents before him. Id take Trump presidency over Bush/Obama any day.
@tjandmia: Nowadays with biden, you have hundreds of billions of dollars spent on a sht hole called Ukraine, which btw is pretty much just another name for Russia. It's like China, Hong Kong, Taiwan. They're all just Chinese at the end of the day. The war happening now is pretty much a civil war.
Incredibly dumb take which basically mirrors Kremlin talking point. I'd add more but your statements are just false across the board.
I think its a pretty spot on take.
@sargentd:
I'd like to hear your thoughts on his spending. Honestly I feel like the right has shifted too far from the core principles of paying down our debt. We need someone who is willing to do whatever, raising taxes, cutting spending, and paying down the debt. Our next president better be a bean counting mf of an accountant.
When has a republican president ever paid down the debt? That certainly has never happened in my lifetime.
It's also very unclear what the benefit would be so long as we have a decent debt to annual deficit ratio. At this point though things are pretty dire when it comes to infrastructure thanks to a lack of willingness to incur general upkeep costs over the decades and anthropogenic climate change doing increasingly excess harm to said infrastructure. It would be very difficult for any president to not massively increase infrastructure spending and still be seen as a good president.
@LJS9502_basic said:@eoten said: A lot of Bernie supporters backed Trump in 2016. Why would they have backed the establishment candidate that cheated against Bernie?
I doubt that. Trump is the anti Bernie.
a lot of Bernie's fans went Trump over Hillary. It was a protest vote against the DNC establishment for a lot of those folks. Many suspected Hillary/DNC cheated Bernie. A lot of Bernie's fans are pretty anti-establishment. Trying to force them to vote Hillary Clinton put a lot of them in a tuff spot. She's the absolute epiphany of political establishment.
Might come as a shocker. Most Americans don't ever want to hear about another Bush/Clinton candidate. We don't have "Royal" family's here in America. Most want new ideas.
@sargentd: Thanks for responding to my earlier question.
It's always nice to "sit down" and sort of just talk without arguing and gain perspective without having that combative element that is so common here (or, equally bad, the echo chamber element for those you agree with). We are all pretty much the same in the cosmic sense, though we contain multitudes in the finer details.
Though I do enjoy a good debate, too 😈
Anyway I got some more questions if you don't mind entertaining hypotheticals:
So, let's just assume that all the terrible stuff we are hearing about Trump is true. Let's say irrefutable proof of a.) Russian collusion during the elections that he benefitted from occured, b.) he actively committed treason and encouraged violence against non-supporters, and c.) committed treason by leaking or trading secret documents, or d.) any other sort of stuff.
Would your opinion of him change? Would you not support him? Would you not vote, or vote democrat, or vote for a third party candidate?
*And keep in mind that this is irrefutable. Caught red-handed. There's no "Oh well maybe he was doing it for the right reasons" or "The media is lying" element.
@sargentd: trump was not simply asking for assurances that the election was clean.
He repeatedly claimed without evidence that there was large scale fraud against him and that he had won.
He asked for the vote count to stop while he was still winning ( except for Arizona where he was lossing)
He asked for the vice president to stop certification and assign electors to himself.
This cannot now be suddenly be distorted in to a "he wanted to make sure the elections were clean". That was not at all the case.
@sargentd: trump was not simply asking for assurances that the election was clean.
He repeatedly claimed without evidence that there was large scale fraud against him and that he had won.
He asked for the vote count to stop while he was still winning ( except for Arizona where he was lossing)
He asked for the vice president to stop certification and assign electors to himself.
This cannot now be suddenly be distorted in to a "he wanted to make sure the elections were clean". That was not at all the case.
texas claims now biden not the prez... yeah this has went to far with the crazy now...
@LJS9502_basic said:@eoten said: A lot of Bernie supporters backed Trump in 2016. Why would they have backed the establishment candidate that cheated against Bernie?
I doubt that. Trump is the anti Bernie.
a lot of Bernie's fans went Trump over Hillary. It was a protest vote against the DNC establishment for a lot of those folks. Many suspected Hillary/DNC cheated Bernie. A lot of Bernie's fans are pretty anti-establishment. Trying to force them to vote Hillary Clinton put a lot of them in a tuff spot. She's the absolute epiphany of political establishment.
Might come as a shocker. Most Americans don't ever want to hear about another Bush/Clinton candidate. We don't have "Royal" family's here in America. Most want new ideas.
I keep hearing this but I don't see any data. I think it's more likely they didn't vote at all.
Incredibly dumb take which basically mirrors Kremlin talking point. I'd add more but your statements are just false across the board.
I think its a pretty spot on take.
Then I'd suggest you buy a map and history book.
@sargentd: trump was not simply asking for assurances that the election was clean.
He repeatedly claimed without evidence that there was large scale fraud against him and that he had won.
He asked for the vote count to stop while he was still winning ( except for Arizona where he was lossing)
He asked for the vice president to stop certification and assign electors to himself.
This cannot now be suddenly be distorted in to a "he wanted to make sure the elections were clean". That was not at all the case.
He, just like Trump, knows that he lost the election and that it wasn't fraudulent. Everyone knows it wasn't, but that cult thinking kicks in and they just refuse to admit it. It's really weird and I have no idea what purpose it serves, but they do it anyway. Probably just a form of denial or something like that.
@Serraph105: jeez, I will never agree with anyone who says increasing our debt to such ridiculous levels is a good thing. And yes, I fully understand that there's certain costs. Natural disasters and global warming is making things more expensive. However, there's also a ton of pork in the bill that needs to be trimmed. Actually, times of inflation are the BEST times to pay down the debt because the debt is worth less. With inflation at 10%, that means our existing 32 trillion in debt is getting a discount of 10%. Why do you think the banks go so hard after inflation, dropping everything else, even risking recession?? They will tank the economy, they literally dont give 2 fucks as long as the inflation is brought down.
Inflation years are the best years to pay down our debt. Tax the shit out of people, cut spending, pay it down.
I would be really happy if the next president is an accountant. Not even a regular accountant, but a stingy ass mf of an account that counts every single penny.
@Serraph105: jeez, I will never agree with anyone who says increasing our debt to such ridiculous levels is a good thing. And yes, I fully understand that there's certain costs. Natural disasters and global warming is making things more expensive. However, there's also a ton of pork in the bill that needs to be trimmed. Actually, times of inflation are the BEST times to pay down the debt because the debt is worth less. With inflation at 10%, that means our existing 32 trillion in debt is getting a discount of 10%. Why do you think the banks go so hard after inflation, dropping everything else, even risking recession?? They will tank the economy, they literally dont give 2 fucks as long as the inflation is brought down.
Inflation years are the best years to pay down our debt. Tax the shit out of people, cut spending, pay it down.
I would be really happy if the next president is an accountant. Not even a regular accountant, but a stingy ass mf of an account that counts every single penny.
Wut? Years when regular people have it the worst financially you consider to be the best times to pay down the debt, as opposed to years that people are well off? Such as when unemployment is low and inflation is low? Or do you mean specifically taxing the rich, who are having a banner year this year and using that to pay down the debt? Cause that actually could make some sense.
edit. Also, historically, there is basically zero chance we will have a president, republican or democrat, who will try to pay down the debt. Like I said, it really hasn't happened in my 35 years of life, and that's unlikely to change when we keep electing republicans who want to increase the military budget while decreasing taxes or democrats who want to improve the social safety net while decreasing the amount going towards to military to pay for some of it and increasing taxes to pay for some of it as well, but definitely not all of it.
@sargentd: I mean, I think we all kind of knew this about you..
I love my country (the people) and believe this is the best way forward.
My question is related to this statement. Trump openly attacks minority groups in this country as a way to gain further support for himself from his base all the time. He's attacked immigrants, the queer community, african americans, etc while openly supporting groups like the Proud Boys, which are quite accurately described as white supremacists. Doing so has been shown to sow division in this country. So, do you really love the people in this country, or do you love certain segments of it. Furthermore, why do you think his divisive politics is "the best way forward?"
Aah, going with that theory again? I bet you think he actually called Mexicans murders and rapists too.
Didn't ask you man, it's not your ama. That said, he actively called Mexican immigrants murders and rapists, putting in a little addendum to say, "not all of them" at the end doesn't change the fact that he directed his divisive politics towards mexican immigrants in the moment.
says who? the media? the same ones that blamed trump for covid.
all bullshit. unless it was on national tv and not social media it most likely didn't happen.
he might of saids they will build the wall but never did he say on tv call them rapist and murders.
did you know mexico is the highest murder and rap percent in the world?
but no you didn't. that is why most americans who go on vacation go to american owned section of it.
but just like every were in the world not everyone there is bad.
but do your research. mexico is a bad place to live or go.
@sargentd: I mean, I think we all kind of knew this about you..
I love my country (the people) and believe this is the best way forward.
My question is related to this statement. Trump openly attacks minority groups in this country as a way to gain further support for himself from his base all the time. He's attacked immigrants, the queer community, african americans, etc while openly supporting groups like the Proud Boys, which are quite accurately described as white supremacists. Doing so has been shown to sow division in this country. So, do you really love the people in this country, or do you love certain segments of it. Furthermore, why do you think his divisive politics is "the best way forward?"
Aah, going with that theory again? I bet you think he actually called Mexicans murders and rapists too.
Didn't ask you man, it's not your ama. That said, he actively called Mexican immigrants murders and rapists, putting in a little addendum to say, "not all of them" at the end doesn't change the fact that he directed his divisive politics towards mexican immigrants in the moment.
says who? the media? the same ones that blamed trump for covid.
all bullshit. unless it was on national tv and not social media it most likely didn't happen.
he might of saids they will build the wall but never did he say on tv call them rapist and murders.
did you know mexico is the highest murder and rap percent in the world?
but no you didn't. that is why most americans who go on vacation go to american owned section of it.
but just like every were in the world not everyone there is bad.
but do your research. mexico is a bad place to live or go.
You ever consider petitioning cirque du soleil for a mental gymnastics portion of their show? Because Trump cultists like yourself are jaw-droppingly good at them.
Didn't ask you man, it's not your ama. That said, he actively called Mexican immigrants murders and rapists, putting in a little addendum to say, "not all of them" at the end doesn't change the fact that he directed his divisive politics towards mexican immigrants in the moment.
says who? the media? the same ones that blamed trump for covid.
all bullshit. unless it was on national tv and not social media it most likely didn't happen.
he might of saids they will build the wall but never did he say on tv call them rapist and murders.
did you know mexico is the highest murder and rap percent in the world?
but no you didn't. that is why most americans who go on vacation go to american owned section of it.
but just like every were in the world not everyone there is bad.
but do your research. mexico is a bad place to live or go.
Actually trump is on video saying those things. If you aren't going to trust your own eyes and ears then I guess you'll buy into the right propaganda machine full stop.
Interesting thread, it's an opportunity for people to have straightforward discussions and help understand each other. I hope all of America starts to prefer this approach, and realize everyone has their own reasons and their own justifications for their decisions. This is why voting is an individual decision made at a certain point in time.
The way we arrive at what we think now has been an ever changing experience, and it will continue to change. No one person knows everything, and when we come together we can each offer a unique perspective to someone we talk to, and they can offer their unique perspective to us. We all are missing some puzzle piece and perhaps someone else can unlock it.
I hope everyone is as open to inviting consideration of other perspectives.
So sorry to say, we let you down.
@LJS9502_basic said:@eoten said: A lot of Bernie supporters backed Trump in 2016. Why would they have backed the establishment candidate that cheated against Bernie?
I doubt that. Trump is the anti Bernie.
a lot of Bernie's fans went Trump over Hillary. It was a protest vote against the DNC establishment for a lot of those folks. Many suspected Hillary/DNC cheated Bernie. A lot of Bernie's fans are pretty anti-establishment. Trying to force them to vote Hillary Clinton put a lot of them in a tuff spot. She's the absolute epiphany of political establishment.
Might come as a shocker. Most Americans don't ever want to hear about another Bush/Clinton candidate. We don't have "Royal" family's here in America. Most want new ideas.
I keep hearing this but I don't see any data. I think it's more likely they didn't vote at all.
Might be an outlier, but that Air Force veteran woman that was shot and killed on Jan 6th voted for Obama. She might have wanted to vote for Bernie, too.
Trump appeals to the losers of the world, the disenfranchised. Folks that are in debt [to the government], lost their businesses...people that need scapegoats, be it the government or immigrants or jews "globalists".
I think there were a lot of former democrats voting for Trump. Just my personal belief, not a lot of evidence to support it, but I think you might be surprised.
This was a while ago, but in California I think we had Prop 8 and it passed, making it illegal for gays to get married (it has since been overturned). The reason it passed is you had a lot of young parents, a lot of generally liberal people, with kids and they're like "Well I support gays, but I don't want my kids seeing that as a normal thing because I don't want my kid to be gay, so I am not going to support them".
Also Hispanics are like 100% catholic so that also helped pass it (again, this is why we shouldn't be surprised states like Florida and Texas are red still despite a heavy immigrant population).
There are some single-issue voters out there and if a democrat alienates them on these things they'll go to the other side. Solidarity is the GOP's greatest strength, while the opposite is the Dems greatest weakness if you ask me.
@Serraph105: ...
I would be really happy if the next president is an accountant. Not even a regular accountant, but a stingy ass mf of an account that counts every single penny.
Yup! A common-sense, well-off-but-not-obscenely-wealthy accountant.
Our leaders should be smarter than us. Better than us. A really genius-level accountant or economics professor or something would be really great...possibly. Could also be really bad.
I'd also be game for a tech person, too. Though not a CEO, someone just savvy with tech and legislation. All those old farts on Congress and Senate seem to not really get it.
Knowing us, though, we'd probably elect a crypto-bro. Jared Kushner in ten years? Oh lord...
...
Might come as a shocker. Most Americans don't ever want to hear about another Bush/Clinton candidate. We don't have "Royal" family's here in America. Most want new ideas.
That's the irony. Trump is American royalty. Comes from a line of wealthy, well-know, well-connected Americans with their hands in all kinds of pies. And the legacy is now established for at least another generation; we will see Ivanka, Kushner, and Don Jr in politics in the next 20 years or less, I promise you that. Hell Baron is a young man soon, curious what he is going to pursue...hopefully a career in basketball, dude is like 6'8"
I agree though that we don't want, or at least we don't need, another Bush or Clinton.
@mrbojangles25: the crossover between democrats and trump voters is very high, because trump has aimed at the people that are worse off (except racial minorities)
Traditionally this people would get help from democrats and therefore vote for them， but many of them nowadays feel excluded by social views and a system of values that are too far off from them.(frankly speaking, refering to all white people as if they are privileged, probably rubs rural poor less educated white people the wrong way, since they also struggle)
So naturally trump appeals to them.
Also nativist ideas like "blame the foreigners", "blame the elites", "the world is unfair to this group only" are very appealing to people all over the world and have been used by the left and right since voting was a thing.
But i don't want to call this people loosers. I think one should always be respectful and try to communicate to people that are struggling ways to improve themselves.
@mrbojangles25: the crossover between democrats and trump voters is very high, because trump has aimed at the people that are worse off (except racial minorities)
Traditionally this people would get help from democrats and therefore vote for them， but many of them nowadays feel excluded by social views and a system of values that are too far off from them.(frankly speaking, refering to all white people as if they are privileged, probably rubs rural poor less educated white people the wrong way, since they also struggle)
So naturally trump appeals to them.
Also nativist ideas like "blame the foreigners", "blame the elites", "the world is unfair to this group only" are very appealing to people all over the world and have been used by the left and right since voting was a thing.
But i don't want to call this people loosers. I think one should always be respectful and try to communicate to people that are struggling ways to improve themselves.
Yeah I meant objective losers, not like "oh what a pathetic losers". I meant losers in the sense that they lost something. Should probably phrase it differently.
@mrbojangles25: the crossover between democrats and trump voters is very high, because trump has aimed at the people that are worse off (except racial minorities)
Traditionally this people would get help from democrats and therefore vote for them， but many of them nowadays feel excluded by social views and a system of values that are too far off from them.(frankly speaking, refering to all white people as if they are privileged, probably rubs rural poor less educated white people the wrong way, since they also struggle)
So naturally trump appeals to them.
Also nativist ideas like "blame the foreigners", "blame the elites", "the world is unfair to this group only" are very appealing to people all over the world and have been used by the left and right since voting was a thing.
But i don't want to call this people loosers. I think one should always be respectful and try to communicate to people that are struggling ways to improve themselves.
Yeah I meant objective losers, not like "oh what a pathetic losers". I meant losers in the sense that they lost something. Should probably phrase it differently.
true. but even then. they wont grasp or under stand it.
...
Might come as a shocker. Most Americans don't ever want to hear about another Bush/Clinton candidate. We don't have "Royal" family's here in America. Most want new ideas.
That's the irony. Trump is American royalty. Comes from a line of wealthy, well-know, well-connected Americans with their hands in all kinds of pies. And the legacy is now established for at least another generation; we will see Ivanka, Kushner, and Don Jr in politics in the next 20 years or less, I promise you that. Hell Baron is a young man soon, curious what he is going to pursue...hopefully a career in basketball, dude is like 6'8"
I agree though that we don't want, or at least we don't need, another Bush or Clinton.
And this is why they are suckers. They keep seeing this silver spoon-fed conman as relatable when it couldn't be further from the truth. He reeks of nepotism just as bad, if not worse, than the Bush or Clintons of the world. Just look at his treatment of Kushner and Ivanka during his tenure. He gave them clearance and bypassed normal guidelines and security checks so that he could install sycophantic family members where he could.
@sargentd: Thanks for responding to my earlier question.
It's always nice to "sit down" and sort of just talk without arguing and gain perspective without having that combative element that is so common here (or, equally bad, the echo chamber element for those you agree with). We are all pretty much the same in the cosmic sense, though we contain multitudes in the finer details.
Though I do enjoy a good debate, too 😈
Anyway I got some more questions if you don't mind entertaining hypotheticals:
So, let's just assume that all the terrible stuff we are hearing about Trump is true. Let's say irrefutable proof of a.) Russian collusion during the elections that he benefitted from occured, b.) he actively committed treason and encouraged violence against non-supporters, and c.) committed treason by leaking or trading secret documents, or d.) any other sort of stuff.
Would your opinion of him change? Would you not support him? Would you not vote, or vote democrat, or vote for a third party candidate?
*And keep in mind that this is irrefutable. Caught red-handed. There's no "Oh well maybe he was doing it for the right reasons" or "The media is lying" element.
I don't mind hypotheticals. They can be fun.
My issue with your hypothetical is that its actually a big reason I hate the modern day democrats. The amount of obsessive lies and smears to take down Trump. Mueller investigation (trump russia collusion), 2 partisan down the line impeachments. All based on nothing but BS. Using MSNBC and CNN to push the same conspiracies and nonsense on the general public.
But that's besides the point. Back to your hypothetical. If all the lies democrats pushed about trump were all true and it was cold hard evidence showing it. Then sure, I would be mad at Trump. But as of right now im mad at the democrats for just pushing nonsense and lies to try and "take down trump".
It's ironic listening to the left complain about the right not accepting election results. The democrats NEVER accepted trump.
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Might come as a shocker. Most Americans don't ever want to hear about another Bush/Clinton candidate. We don't have "Royal" family's here in America. Most want new ideas.
That's the irony. Trump is American royalty. Comes from a line of wealthy, well-know, well-connected Americans with their hands in all kinds of pies. And the legacy is now established for at least another generation; we will see Ivanka, Kushner, and Don Jr in politics in the next 20 years or less, I promise you that. Hell Baron is a young man soon, curious what he is going to pursue...hopefully a career in basketball, dude is like 6'8"
I agree though that we don't want, or at least we don't need, another Bush or Clinton.
And this is why they are suckers. They keep seeing this silver spoon-fed conman as relatable when it couldn't be further from the truth. He reeks of nepotism just as bad, if not worse, than the Bush or Clintons of the world. Just look at his treatment of Kushner and Ivanka during his tenure. He gave them clearance and bypassed normal guidelines and security checks so that he could install sycophantic family members where he could.
The real irony here... is this coming from Biden supporters, a 45 year career political leech whos family was able to get rich using Biden's vice presidency title over seas to make deals in China, Afghanistan, and Ukraine . Most of you guys refuse to even acknowledge how his crack head son was able to make millions sitting on a Ukraine energy board while Biden was VP..... He doesn't know a damn thing about Ukraine or energy...
The Biden's are the definition of nepotism.
Trump was in politics for 4 years. Biden long before I was even born. Anyone who sits on some sort of moral high horse for voting Biden over Trump is a loser. Biden is horrible.
That's the irony. Trump is American royalty. Comes from a line of wealthy, well-know, well-connected Americans with their hands in all kinds of pies. And the legacy is now established for at least another generation; we will see Ivanka, Kushner, and Don Jr in politics in the next 20 years or less, I promise you that. Hell Baron is a young man soon, curious what he is going to pursue...hopefully a career in basketball, dude is like 6'8"
I agree though that we don't want, or at least we don't need, another Bush or Clinton.
And this is why they are suckers. They keep seeing this silver spoon-fed conman as relatable when it couldn't be further from the truth. He reeks of nepotism just as bad, if not worse, than the Bush or Clintons of the world. Just look at his treatment of Kushner and Ivanka during his tenure. He gave them clearance and bypassed normal guidelines and security checks so that he could install sycophantic family members where he could.
The real irony here... is this coming from Biden supporters
Please, Biden hasn't installed direct family members to advisor or foreign relation positions. At best you can grasp for straws with Hunter which has a tenth of the weight of what the Trump family was endowed upon winning the election. Now Trump is fleecing every dumbass around to fund his 'fight the steal' campaign to hundreds of millions of dollars and you turn a blind eye. You have no position to talk about nepotism or corruption. Trump is a poster child for both.
You complain about Hunter Biden but you're willing to ignore the sheer amount of monetary advantage given to Kushner, Ivanka, Don Jr, Eric, and even the Con man himself. Just give it us.
That's the irony. Trump is American royalty. Comes from a line of wealthy, well-know, well-connected Americans with their hands in all kinds of pies. And the legacy is now established for at least another generation; we will see Ivanka, Kushner, and Don Jr in politics in the next 20 years or less, I promise you that. Hell Baron is a young man soon, curious what he is going to pursue...hopefully a career in basketball, dude is like 6'8"
I agree though that we don't want, or at least we don't need, another Bush or Clinton.
And this is why they are suckers. They keep seeing this silver spoon-fed conman as relatable when it couldn't be further from the truth. He reeks of nepotism just as bad, if not worse, than the Bush or Clintons of the world. Just look at his treatment of Kushner and Ivanka during his tenure. He gave them clearance and bypassed normal guidelines and security checks so that he could install sycophantic family members where he could.
The real irony here... is this coming from Biden supporters
Please, Biden hasn't installed direct family members to advisor or foreign relation positions. Now Trump is fleecing every dumbass around to fund his 'fight the steal' campaign to hundreds of millions of dollars and you turn a blind eye. You have no position to talk about nepotism or corruption. Trump is a poster child for both.
I feel like a broken record at this point, but in a world where we are forced to choose a lesser evil, Biden is by far the lesser evil.
I mean none of these people are ideal, though. Biden hasn't done much to fix the essentially an "on-shore off-shore" tax haven for corporations state of Delaware. Trump is corrupt as hell real-estate con artist and semi-celebrity.
I think we can all agree we can do better.
I just don't think Trump is a viable alternative simply because he is [allegedly] different.
Please, Biden hasn't installed direct family members to advisor or foreign relation positions. Now Trump is fleecing every dumbass around to fund his 'fight the steal' campaign to hundreds of millions of dollars and you turn a blind eye. You have no position to talk about nepotism or corruption. Trump is a poster child for both.
I feel like a broken record at this point, but in a world where we are forced to choose a lesser evil, Biden is by far the lesser evil.
I mean none of these people are ideal, though.
I think we can all agree we can do better, though. I just don't think Trump is a viable alternative simply because he is [allegedly] different.
Of course Biden is the lesser evil. The guy wouldn't try to disregard our democratic norms if he were to lose, nor has he openly engaged in serial lying or conspiracies day after day since he took office.
Trump is gutter trash. I long for the days of Romney GOP voters.
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I feel like a broken record at this point, but in a world where we are forced to choose a lesser evil, Biden is by far the lesser evil.
...
Of course Biden is the lesser evil. The guy wouldn't try to disregard our democratic norms if he were to lose, nor has he openly engaged in serial lying or conspiracies day after day since he took office.
Trump is gutter trash. I long for the days of Romney GOP voters.
Isn't that the truth? Haha.
Never thought I'd see Mitt "Corporations are People" Romney as a moderate-conservative.
Please, Biden hasn't installed direct family members to advisor or foreign relation positions. Now Trump is fleecing every dumbass around to fund his 'fight the steal' campaign to hundreds of millions of dollars and you turn a blind eye. You have no position to talk about nepotism or corruption. Trump is a poster child for both.
I feel like a broken record at this point, but in a world where we are forced to choose a lesser evil, Biden is by far the lesser evil.
I mean none of these people are ideal, though.
I think we can all agree we can do better, though. I just don't think Trump is a viable alternative simply because he is [allegedly] different.
Of course Biden is the lesser evil. The guy wouldn't try to disregard our democratic norms if he were to lose, nor has he openly engaged in serial lying or conspiracies day after day since he took office.
Trump is gutter trash. I long for the days of Romney GOP voters.
Yeah, Biden is definately the lesser evil here. I wouldnt vote for him myself in the primaries, even if I could. But He is way preferable to Trump. Whose entire narrative lives on conspiracy theories, post-modernism and a rejection of facts and expertise.
There is a reason Trump is considered one of the worst presidents in US history. Only behind the likes of Buchanan and Andrew Johnson.
Please, Biden hasn't installed direct family members to advisor or foreign relation positions. Now Trump is fleecing every dumbass around to fund his 'fight the steal' campaign to hundreds of millions of dollars and you turn a blind eye. You have no position to talk about nepotism or corruption. Trump is a poster child for both.
I feel like a broken record at this point, but in a world where we are forced to choose a lesser evil, Biden is by far the lesser evil.
I mean none of these people are ideal, though.
I think we can all agree we can do better, though. I just don't think Trump is a viable alternative simply because he is [allegedly] different.
Of course Biden is the lesser evil. The guy wouldn't try to disregard our democratic norms if he were to lose, nor has he openly engaged in serial lying or conspiracies day after day since he took office.
Trump is gutter trash. I long for the days of Romney GOP voters.
Yeah, Biden is definately the lesser evil here. I wouldnt vote for him myself in the primaries, even if I could. But He is way preferable to Trump. Whose entire narrative lives on conspiracy theories, post-modernism and a rejection of facts and expertise.
There is a reason Trump is considered one of the worst presidents in US history. Only behind the likes of Buchanan and Andrew Johnson.
I think he comes out on top as the worst. And hey, he wants to be number 1.
Of course Biden is the lesser evil. The guy wouldn't try to disregard our democratic norms if he were to lose, nor has he openly engaged in serial lying or conspiracies day after day since he took office.
Trump is gutter trash. I long for the days of Romney GOP voters.
Yeah, Biden is definately the lesser evil here. I wouldnt vote for him myself in the primaries, even if I could. But He is way preferable to Trump. Whose entire narrative lives on conspiracy theories, post-modernism and a rejection of facts and expertise.
There is a reason Trump is considered one of the worst presidents in US history. Only behind the likes of Buchanan and Andrew Johnson.
I certainly didn't vote or support Biden in the primaries. But I can see that he's a far better human being that Trump and his ill begotten brood are.
It seems like that's how Trump convinces voters, by calling others evil. Most of what you hear isn't promoting the positive aspects of candidates, but of raising doubt about others and demonizing opponents, and telling voters it will be hell on earth if they win. He knows that his base will always vote for him, so he tries to overwhelm swing voters and make them emotional. Strong emotions and doubts can override critical thinking, even at the last second when in the voting booth.
He doesn't have to debate at debates, he doesn't have to answer questions in interviews, he doesn't have to promote strategies and issues. If he does, it seems like that would only narrow his appeal. If people can't pin down exactly what he stands for and what he's going to do, they will fill in the blanks in their mind with their own personal projection and inferences.
His rallies are like mega churches that whip people up and get them inhaling each others' pheromones and running on endorphins and adrenaline, becoming fervent, and they bring that home to their community, like he's going to perform a miracle and if you vote for anyone else you're crazy and the country will be ruined.
It really seems to work for him.
Doesn't say anything flattering about his supporters and those who voted for him because there was R next to his name.
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