Afghanistan just went from bad to worse for Biden

*UPDATE - At least 10 US service members dead*

Absolutely disgusting. Blood is officially on Biden's hands. I really hoped it didn't come to this. Now what? Now where does Biden go from here? He bowed down to the Taliban's end of August removal but now what will he do since troops and other Americans have died? I'm so sorry to my brothers in arms that you were sent on this mission, which should have never needed to happen if the draw down wasn't bungled. I know what it's like to carry a dead body onto a plane so it can get flown back home. I know what it's like to grieve over a fallen battle buddy. May God be with these families during this impossible time. I can't imagine. What was supposed to be the end, supposed to be a time to celebrate, has turned into a time of death. This will be Biden's legacy.

These deaths are on Islamic terrorists hands. With that being said, there should have been better foresight to the stability of the Afghan government and timeframe of evacuations. Someone needs to provide an actual post mortem of how they missed this, or ignored it.

But I'm not going to buy into this narrative that suddenly Biden critics care about American life. Its the same group that gleefully ignores vaccine preventions and watches thousands of their fellow citizens waste away in hospitals everyday.

There's what... still 12k Americans over there? Pretty sure they're about to become prisoners... maybe hostages... maybe killed. F**k the Biden Admin's incompetence... this is getting worse for the Americans stranded over there. This is worse than Vietnam.

A debacle that Biden will forever be remembered for.

There are not 12k Americans left in Afghanistan. There's less than 1500 at this time, with many of them indicating they want to stay.

@HoolaHoopMan: If that's true, glad it's only 10% of what I thought. If any want to stay... they're dumb as f**k and will probably be murdered.

Which should underscore exactly why we need out of there.

@LJS9502_basic: That.... we can agree on.

Holy s**t... common ground. 😲

I think a large portion are Afghans-Americans with many of them in places far outside of the capital. Evacuations over the last week have been extensive and far above targets.

@HoolaHoopMan:

I'm not opposed to opening the door, I'm just opposed to how the door was opened.

@mattbbpl said:

@HoolaHoopMan:

I'm not opposed to opening the door, I'm just opposed to how the door was opened.

Either way you're losing some dishes to get at them.

Extremely tragic, and honestly I'm surprised it took this long for a suicide/or other bombing attack to happen at one of the checkpoints.

It's a tragedy, that's for sure, but to all the nay-sayers I'd like to know what we should have done.

Should we have stayed? Fought and died for them some more? Given them billions of dollars of aid, a lot of which ends up funneling to the Taliban via corruption or lining the pockets of contractors working over there?

Please, tell me, I would love to know what the "good" solution for Afghanistan is because from where I am sitting we can cut our losses and leave, or stay and keep losing.

@HoolaHoopMan: Yeah. The people with power criticizing this largely just want us to stay.

Just Biden's?

Not Bush's?

Not Obama's?

Not Trump's?

Biden's legacy? Look I don't like Biden that much but the dude has been president for like 6 months and this has been a 20-year conflict.

I laugh when people say it's a war that "spans four presidents" because frankly it's more like 3.1 presidents. Round it down, folks.

I think once the sensationalism dies down and some time goes bye, history will look favorably on this. It's not like Afghanistan was a bastion of peace, democracy, and gender equality to begin with.

@mrbojangles25: Agreed that those other presidents had a hand on it. At least Trump made the decision to leave. Biden f**ked up the exit strategy though. We should have gotten all US civilians out well over a month ago. Then we should have taken all our military equipment and had that removed with our troops by exit day.

I have no idea what the Biden administration plan was or if they even gave it a thought. I'm willing to bet whatever plan was in place, Biden and/or his admin changed it.

unsurprising.

country is returning to the shithole from whence it came

What a shit show.

Or they supported Trump and his 'pull out' plan, which was scheduled for even earlier date. Either way I have a hard time believing that any of it genuine. One side wants to keep going through the motions with a failed plan, the other would have done the same.

I don't even want to say this was a horrible exit strategy, seems like no strategy at all...

The only way out is that airport.. rat trap. Prime target, isis knew it, Taliban knew it. So they blow up the airport... This is a joke.

Thousands of Americans are still over there, exact numbers are still not clear. Some saying 1500, some saying 10k +

Current administration dodging questions on exactly how many are still there.

I don't give a **** about the middle east but Biden is no leader, the guy is sun setting, as easy it would be to blame Biden. I'm willing to bet this was a combined **** up by 10 or more of his handlers. We have NO clear leadership.

Biden is not all there and you people pretending he is are sad.

State Department HAS been telling the Americans in Afghanistan to leave since April and offered to pay their airfare. At some point we have to talk about personal responsibility as well.

@LJS9502_basic: WTF?! That's news to me. Bunch of morons.

Considering last month Biden said none of this would happen and it did, I wouldn't put much faith in any number of Americans he says is over there. Take everything he and his administration says with a grain of salt. Saying it went from bad to worse is an understatement.

Everyone Make sure to Thank Bush and all the politicians both side that voted for the war, and you idiots keep putting those same people in power because you care more about the party than the country

As a fellow marine that did two combat deployments in the middle east I am sickened by this. There will come a time of reckoning when all spineless, terrorist aiding, cowards will answer for their evils.

I am a true believer of an eye for an eye. The amount of anger and feelings I have about this are beyond words. When the time comes the sheep can't blame the wolf when they are banging on their front door. RIP to my brothers in arms who served valiantly and my heart and soul goes out to the families.

This never should have happened and the blood is on the hands on this administration regardless of how anyone tries to twist the circumstances or find a way to blame it on someone else.

You CAN NOT negotiate with terrorists they only understand one thing and every marine is ready to arrange that meeting.

@WitIsWisdom: So you would rather we stayed and lost more troops to this? Seems ridiculous.

Trumps withdrawal plan had clear cut conditions which included leaving the military and getting them out last, including recouping military assets that weren't in the hands of allies. The two can not be compared in any way, shape, or form. As little as a week ago Biden was saying the fall of Afghanistan to the taliban was not a foregone conclusion.

The problem with the Afghan army is that many of them were trained to assist air command and when we pulled out they were left without vital equipment, training, and resources. Entire camps had to be abandoned and hundreds of millions of dollars (some saying it's easily in the billions) of weaponry and equipment was left behind for the taliban to use at their disposal.

The blood spilled due to these terrible decisions was the first not the last. American lives will be lost by the very assets that they brought to assist the country to begin with.

I understand that all too well having fought in Fallujah in both pushes and seeing US equipment and assets being used against us there as well.

The military is still there. Also Trump is the one who decreased the military presence.

My parking lot idea keeps sounding better and better.

This has been an absolute embarrassment for the Biden administration.

Genocide never sounds better.

Trump didn't leave behind thousands of Americans and billions of dollars in military equipment. If you honestly think this would go like this under the Trump administration you are delusional. We would be in all out war if they pulled the shit they pulled against Biden.

I absolutely supported the war and still do. They were responsible for the largest terrorist attack in US history wtf would you have done? Where I disagree is we should have never tried to build them back up and replace their government. We should have just leveled the country and left.

Where as Trump is saying the US would have used bombs and airstrikes against the Taliban to prevent their takeover, the Biden administration left them weapons and equipment, and have done absolutely nothing to stand in their way. Yeah, Biden is a colossal ****-up. More confused than a chameleon in a bag of Skittles.

He reduced the troops. They wouldn't have been able to protect those Americans you're claiming to worry about. And the Taliban had increased attacks because trump's deadline passed. But don't let facts get in your way.

Remember that's what they want for us.

And yet the Trump 'withdrawal' can only be viewed as a counter factual with some elements left to the imagination. I have little faith that the same events would not have played out given the original date of 5/1/2021. There's absolutely no way I buy that any plans to leave earlier could have logistically included all of the pieces outlined. Additionally, the loss of equipment due to abandonment from the Afghan army would have been an inevitability under any circumstance they fall.

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

Trump decreased the military numbers in areas that were heavily guarded and had little to no resistance but kept 2,500 there guarding key areas and regions with heavy US involvement and assets... he didn't pull them all out and then at the last second send a few back because he trusted the decency of a terrorist organization that went back on their word.

Trump tactically reduced the number of troops with a combined plan with top military leadership and with the understanding that they would be the last ones out and would guard, maintain, and recover all military assets while also aiding and securing the exit of civilians, contractors, and officials first.

Biden removed all but less than 1,000 troops that were mostly admin and logistics while leaving huge amounts of military assets completely unguarded and then realized you can't negotiate with terrorists who immediately started seizing them and had his hand forced to send an additional 3,000 troops back to try to protect American assets in a panic attempt to save face and make it look as though he had the best intentions.

If the 2,500 would have remained and all assets were recovered then the evacuation would have gone much more smoothly and the Taliban would have never been at the gates in the first place... let alone running amok through the airports.

Biden actually trusted that the taliban would help in the safe passage of those people. That's a complete joke. Those people know NOTHING but war. It's all they know, it's all they care about. I know.. I've been there.

If the troops wouldn't have been removed in the first place (we are talking about the vast majority of the ones left that Biden got out first) then they would have been deployed to key locations that they needed to be and would have had clear checkpoints and security set up ensuring the safe passage of all Americans and allies.

No US marines or soldiers were killed after Trump's deal and the same can not be said in the days following Biden's decision to pull the military out first (the opposite of Trump's plan), which makes absolutely no sense at all.

If they did that on Trumps watch those cowards knew there would have been hell to pay. However, they also know Biden is a puppet and won't do anything.

@WitIsWisdom: And 2500 isn't enough which was my point. But keep defending the failure 45.

Wrong once again.. you're pretty good at that.

If that is the case then how come the reduced number of troops was doing just fine and no US military member was killed on Trump's watch after the deal?

The taliban is a terrorist organization that can't be negotiated with but still respected Trump and knew not to double cross him. They know Biden is weak and won't do anything.

He has already said several times he did nothing wrong and would do the same thing again.

The only excuse Democrats ever have is to point the finger at Republicans when things go wrong. This mess isn't on Trump regardless of how bad you want it to be.

History and numbers don't lie and if this would have happened with Trump in office we would currently be bombing the ever living hell out of those cowards. Which they knew.

That is perhaps one area in which I agree. Turn the whole country into a glass parking lot, plant tomatoes, and invest in Heinz.

You're seemingly placing faith in something that never happened, hence a counter factual. Can you, in all honesty, say that if Trump were to still meet his goal of 5/1/2021 withdrawal, that the Taliban would not have retaken the country in a reasonably similar timeframe?

If you want to talk about 'trusting' a terrorist organization, then you should understand that Trump wanted to invite the Taliban to camp David. Exactly what would you call discussing withdrawal plans with Taliban leaders in Qatar while not including the Afghan government? The last administration brought these same people to freaking peace talks while simultaneously freeing their leader and another five thousand troops. So please, spare us the 'trust' and 'decency' stuff. Any agreement between nations and leaders assumes some trust and faith. It's part of the process.

I never said that the troops should have stayed beyond the evacuation of all personnel and military assets. However, yes, I do believe that they should have been the last ones out. Which just happened to be Trump's plan.

The deaths didn't occur until the taliban cowards knew defenses were weakened to a point that they had control and nothing could be done about it.

It's not like I am or was proposing to stay another few years, but another couple months to ensure safe passage of all citizens, allies, and assets? Yes.

That is what people like me were trained to do. It's not like the men and women who went over there wanted to be there, but they understood the need and would gladly go where our country needs them the most.

For someone who claims to be military, you seem to have no understanding of military operations. He promised the Taliban they would be out 1 May. The Taliban did, indeed, wait but eventually they started attacks.

The last administration, ie Republican, made the deal with the Taliban to be out 1 May. They did NOT negotiate with the government. They reduced troop strength to only 2500 which is hardly enough. They had 5000 Taliban prisoners released, one of which is now in charge in Afghanistan.

If you think they hold no blame for this mess then you're dishonest.

It's amazing how quickly some people embrace cartoon villainy.

You're talking about genocide. While some people on the Right continue to try to distance themselves from the Nazi comparisons and members in their ranks, others proudly embrace the worst parts of the ideology.

It's time to bring the drones back in and show the taliban who's boss

Lol a far leftist forum dweller talking about military operations to a former marine... please just STFU. This is on Biden and nobody else. Do you honestly think they would have had the balls to attack us under Trump? Trump would have blown them off the map. His ego was to big to get attacked and do nothing... they know this. Biden is bending down like a bitch.. The US looks pathetic and within two weeks they took the country back and rebuilt their terrorist network.

If this were trump, he'd have sent in the army back in by now and demolished the taliban again.

Actually if it were trump, I doubt the taliban would have had the balls to attack us in the first place, knowing how short tempered trump is. Trump is the same guy who dropped the MOAB on these terrorists and I'm sure they remember it too.

@mattbbpl: And this nonsense about mass murder is reinforcing my belief that their criticisms aren't to be taken in good faith. Floating the idea of genocide isn't against TOS apparently.

Except I'm a vet so I don't need a far right forum dweller trying to score cheap points with his far right buddies. The Taliban did, in fact, attack while Trump was in office. He capitulated to them and said he'd withdrawal. Learn history before opening your mouth.

Imagine someone who has no clue as to what they are talking about telling someone who has actually been there and knows all too well how things work with these people they are wrong. You can continue to be an arm chair general and read all the fake news and buy into the "Biden did no wrong" narrative all you want. I won't blame your ignorance on something you couldn't possibly understand.

We all know that Trump would not have been out on the 1st of May if the time wasn't right. There were clear cut conditions that had to be met first.

The taliban has and always will be a terrorist organization that attacks when weakness is detected and is cowardly and elusive. They will attack without reason at any time they want and the attacks never stopped to begin with. They just knew damn well not to attack US military under Trump's command, and especially not after the deal Trump made. Which once again had clear cut conditions in which they knew they didn't want to try and deceive.

2,500 was enough for the time being with the deal in place and not a single veteran life was lost during that time. We all know that if the taliban would have double crossed Trump he would have bombed them into oblivion and increased military presence.

Blame is always easy to assign in retrospect of events but one president (Trump) had clear cut withdrawal plans with certain conditions that had to be met while also promising large retaliation for going back on the deal, and one president (Biden) threw that all away and trusted the taliban to do the right thing and actually help the evacuation of American people and assets and then said he would do it all over again if he was given the chance.

I'm taking the advice of my wife on this one and backing out knowing that I'm right. I'm sure that at some point in your life a parent or guardian must have told you to stay out of arguments or discussions in which you don't understand the subject matter. Either way, I understand everyone has a difference in opinions, and I leave you to yours.

@WitIsWisdom: Well you are wrong. Being there doesn't mean one is right.