Has any conservative or republican found the election fraud claim unlikely or far fetched?

I am wondering how homogeneous is this view that the elections were stolen.

1.I mean the main proof were affidavit, which is basically claims from witness. But many of them were claiming things they considered to be suspicious even if they didnt understand the election process.

2. The claims of fraud were all non specific in its locations and form

3.. Trump has claimed election fraud multiple times already even against current ally ted cruz.

4. All judges dismissed the claims, even the supreme court judges appointed by trump himself.

5. Trump lawyers, including Giuliani, testified in court that they were making no fraud allegations.

6. The completely partisan Arizona forensic audit, came up with a lot of areas that they considered "suspicious", but largely got the same result as the county elector and made no official claims of fraud.

7. Biden got so many votes appears suspicious at first sight since he is not very popular himself, but does make sense if you consider most voters were voting against trump and not for Biden.

8. Many of his party members and conservative media (fox news) disputed trump claims, despite threat of being challenged in primary elections.

9. the voting rules and procedures did not change since the last election that trump did win and did not challenge.

10. Close ally of trump, Attorney General William Barr declared the U.S. Justice Department has uncovered no evidence of widespread voter fraud that could change the outcome of the 2020 election.

I mean, given circumstances, I imagine at least the more urban more educated republicans must be having a hard time believing in these claims.

I’ve said this before, but I don’t think fraud is of much concern to Republicans (those who support the claim) with respect to evidentiary merit.….it is simply a means to an end in retribution for seeing the other side as “just as bad”.

Republicans don’t care that the fraud narrative is false; in their estimation, any damage incurred to our Republic by the lies targeted at its foundation is the lesser evil compared to Democrats wielding power. In their view….a necessary evil. They’ll simply cling onto fraud, because they know deep down how their absolute contempt for democracy will pass off if they actually held the courage to express it explicitly, so they utilize such pretense that not only grants them some benefit of the doubt, but additionally frames them as defenders of democracy, not destroyers of it. All that remains then is to lay the groundwork conducive to such a belief.

Why do you think audits are continuing? We’re past establishing outcome…..it’s because they’re hammering home a lie and waging a war of winning public opinion since they’ve lost the war of fact and evidence. They’re appealing now to the people directly to sow electoral disrepute, as like I’ve also said before: it doesn’t matter what the truth is….it only matters what you can get people to believe.

Hopefully this will backfire, and enough Republicans will adhere to Trump’s advice to boycott voting in ‘22 and’24 unless ‘20’s “fraud” is solved. I swear, I almost am to believing this idiot is a democrat plant. Keep it up, Donnie. 👍🏼

The point of these audits is NOT to somehow win missing states.

It is to undermine people's faith in the democratic system itself. Recently the neo-nationalist movement has been trying to undermine public faith in,

1. The Press
2. The Arts
3. Academia
4. The Courts
5. The Electoral Process itself

This is no different from other authoritarian regimes usurping power. Hell there is even a playbook of this, hell this is pretty well documented, Parafascists, and actual fascists operate this exact way.

We're living in clown world right now. Try not to make too much sense of it.

@Maroxad: You can't compare them to fascists when they do what fascists do. You have to wait until they start throwing people in ovens.

Lest everything else is unfounded hyperbole meriting meme GIFs of mockery.

There's no evidence to support election fraud as there was none. The claims are simply a pre-text to prime the American right for overturning an election that doesn't work out for them. I've yet to see many Republicans on this board or real life say they believe in the 'Big Lie', but it really doesn't matter at this point. They're not pushing back on it and are all too ready to weaponize it for their gain and would continue to support such a coup and overthrow if it suits them. They're all complicit, whether or not they're explicit to admit they believe in such a thing.

It's time we realize they're autocrats that would easily be comfortable subverting our democracy for their own gain, no matter the outcome.

Trump knew he was going to lose the election. The fraud route was his backup plan to stay in office. Hell, he started the election fraud narrative *before* the election took place.

Remember in the months leading up to the election, when Trump refused to say that he would accept the outcome of the election? And when he wouldn't commit to a peaceful transition of power? And when he spent weeks and weeks pushing the narrative that the postal voting system couldn't be trusted?

He was just laying the groundwork for everything that happened next. He almost blew it, too, the first night of ballot counting - he couldn't help himself, he started rambling about election fraud before all of the votes were counted.

Lying is a way of life for Trump. A virtue. The same for his acolytes. The same for a disturbing number of Republican politicians. The same for a lesser but still disturbing number of politicians of all stripes everywhere. The reason is that there are no direct consequences for lying. It is a means to a political end.

The solution is to follow the lead of Dominion Voting Systems...sue everyone. Until there are consequences behavior will not change. This is a fundamental truth of the human condition and it applies equally to children, gangsters, and politicians.

Maybe a few fools actually believe it, but that's not the point; the point is to be as anti-democratic as possible, to sow distrust in the process.

These people want a dictator, and that goes against democratic values, the democratic process. They support their "strong man" candidate unfailingly and talk nonstop shit about everything else whether it's right or wrong, true or false.

So I guess what I'm saying is that it doesn't matter if they find it far-fetched or not, it's part of their process. It's why the modern right is so dangerous and can't be compromised with. You don't make deals with these people, you beat them.

Overanalyzing this is pointless, you just have to shut them down.

If you all want some good podcasts about the various insurrections in recent history, recommend checking out Behind the Insurrections series.

It's from the same guy that does Behind the Bastards, a series about all the bastards of history.

The host is an interesting guy, definitely a bit of an anarchist-socialist type so there is bias, but he accounts for that as well.

Anyway, point I am trying to get to is that these people just copy-paste each other time after time after time, the similarities are both shocking and yet not surprising I suppose at the same time. Back your dictator, find scapegoats (generally based in xenophobia), and spread distrust.

Agreed, which is why the Right Wing Authoritarians cropping up all over the world are para-fascist, rather than fascist.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/para-fascism

Except Rodrigo Duterte, I would argue he is fascist. A left wing fascist.

No but if they all act like it is out there and we have to investigate they can keep the belief alive. They can justify rigging their local elections with new voters suppression laws.

Anyhow, I hope Trump can convince his base not to vote in next election. He's trying.

I think this has likely become a topic that believers in election fraud would like to avoid. Its not easy to hold this believe and its hard to defend it in a conversation.

Yeah, not surprising that the usual suspects are remaining quiet.

Though it’s not hard to defend when you simply live by alternative facts…..it’s very easy actually, it’s just nothing but a lie. But again, I don’t think those defending fraud much concern themselves with the truth of it, but only of the efficacy of its intended goal: the undermining and eventual subversion of democracy.

That so many are willing to go along with it is a depressing testament to how toxically partisan our political landscape has become.

Republicans are stupid they say Trump is still the President but blame Joe Biden for pulling out of Afghanistan, they make no sense anymore, don’t get offended I think same about Democrats,

@sheep99: they don't claim he is the president, they claim he would be the president if the elections were fair.

@nirgal: Not really. I have seen some say he still is

Yes, quite a few Republicans don't support Trump's nonsense. A tiny percentage, don't get me wrong, but still a significant list.

First, there were the various Republican election officials who certified the results even though Trump lost. Many of those have lost their jobs, or are likely to at the next election.

Second, there's the two Republicans on the Jan 6th House investigation, Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger. Two out of 214 Congressional Republicans that are willing to stand up for fair elections, and think an attempt to overthrow the government is worth looking into. That's pathetic, but it's not zero.

Third, there are the 7 GOP Senators who voted to impeach Trump for the insurrection. To be fair, none of them is currently willing to take a public stand for democracy, but they did manage to find enough decency to cast that single vote.

And word on the street is that very few GOP politicians are true believers. They know there's no fraud, but they almost all fall into one of two categories: either they like the fraud narrative because it lets them pass anti-voting laws and other laws that potentially let them steal elections, or, they simply know that being against Trump's lies is political suicide for Republicans.

@bajonsan: So numbers in the single digit percentages.

Single digit percentages in Congress, yes...in the few weeks after Jan. 6th. I would say it's in the decimal places below single digits, now, of notable Republicans who are willing to publicly say Trump didn't win or that there's no fraud.

Truth has not mattered much to the GOP for a long time, but now they're absolutely beholden to a lie that's so wrong, it's failed in court 60+ times, been proven wrong by multiple recounts and audits across several states, and of course, doesn't much matter since the election was certified by every single state and voting district in the country. And the Electoral College. And Congress, despite being attacked that day.

Of course they haven't.

This is a cult now. They believe just because they believe it

I am also completely sure that that belief led to the attacks on capitol hill.

If you think voting doesn't matter, that is the only way to make your voice heard.

Its a very dangerous strategy.

Hasn't the left already done this too in America?

Seems like both spectrums are so polarized and don't care about the facts.

Nice hit and run comment. How about some substance.

@LJS9502_basic: Not gonna happen

I'm not going to waste my time to try and convince you otherwise. The fact that you can't see this says a lot about you.

You're making veiled innuendos with no substance and can't articulate said substance when asked. I'd say it says more about you.

To translate: You can't back it up with any substance.

To be honest, you can complain a lot about left mlwing problems.

Like how accepting of violent behaviour people became during the black lives matter protests. Completely disregarding many complains of lack of safety and ignoring murders and rapes in taken cities.

But attacking the democratic elections is on a completely different level.

@HoolaHoopMan: Gaming Planet is right. The left insisted the 2016 election was stolen from the start and it went on for 3 years in. They even did an investigation. Mueller? Remember all the stupid shit. 3 years of stupid liberals calling Trump a Russian spy Putin puppet.

If you guys don't remember that shit maybe you should smoke less dope

@sargentd: there was a huge difference though about complaining about russian interference to not actually acknowledging the results of the elections.

Hillary actually conceded very early, even after winning the popular vote.

The actions were not equivalent to at all.

@SargentD: You mean the investigations that proved Russia meddeled? Unlike 2020 where nobody has proven anything. The left didnt try to bully officials into overturning the results, invade the capital, infringe on voting rights, stack offices with like minded trolls, do multiple partisan audits all while crying it was stolen. That was your side.

@Gaming-Planet: Knew you wouldnt

That's exaggeration. There was some actions by Russia that led one to believe they interfered, which they were proven to have done. No one attacked the Capitol nor tried to overturn the election, however. You're arguing against facts. Most people don't want foreign interference in their elections. I know I don't. Has nothing to do with the party of the candidate. Why is the right willing to allow foreign interference? Attacks on democracy?

Also Clinton conceded. Something the big baby has yet to do.

@LJS9502_basic: the Clinton foundation was one of the lead organizations in pushing the Russian collusion investigation man....

It happened man.

@sargentd: i think there are certainly things that can be discussed in regards to the role of the Clinton organization in starting the collusion investigation.

But i think that can be discussed in its own thread. Which if you start we can all join.

Just to go back to the original topic and since i have seen you put forward more (what i consider to be) right winged opinions in other threads. What do you think about the OP, do you consider the election fraud claims to be in firm argumentative ground or not ?

American left? No

But they very much have in other countries, such as the phillipines.

In the end, like with many bad things, the predictor for post-truth politics is not found on hte left-right spectrum, but rather other factors, such as populism, and how much emphasis aesthetics and sticking to principles get.

In the US, republicans are heavily focused on aesthetics, and are currently being carried by a populist current. They certainly seem more principled than the more pragmatic democratic party too.

@Maroxad: Errr.... the press has been doing a fine job of undermining public trust all on their own. 😁

No. He's not. And your insistence that he is just showing how partisan and disingenuous you are. But what can I expect from a poster that has continuously brushed off the death of 700k Americans due to COVID, yet creates threads devoted to demonizing Fauci with animal testing. But let's examine the exact nature of the comparison. The Muller report, and other reports for that matter, did confirm that foreign actors did partake in influencing the election results in favor of Trump. That piece isn't even debatable. This alone is alarming in lieu of not having a smoking gun on collusion. But let's move on to more important pieces.

Did Hillary Clinton refuse to concede in 2016? No.
Did the majority of Democratic legislators refuse to certify the 2016 election? No.
Did Barack Obama call state attorney generals in to overturn election results and find 'votes' to get another result? No.
Did any democrat lead an insurrectionist crowd to storm the capital on the day of certification? No.

This is also ignoring the vast rhetoric and undermining of our election integrity en masse by the right. The entire narrative of Trump, the GOP, and republicans at large, is that our election was stolen, our system is rigged, etc. Yet these claims aren't backed by a shred of evidence. They are continuing to partake in a collective delusion that is actively harming our democratic processes. These are all things that happened under Trump and his lackeys. So this narrative that the left is equivalent to the right is absolutely bullsh*t. You know you support a putrid side and your only defense is to drag any opponent down into the mud with you and shout, 'See, this guy is sh*t too!'

It's a weak and embarrassing defense when you can't even acknowledge the topic at hand. Do you buy into the delusion of the 'Big Lie'? If you do, please provide evidence. If you don't, then why do you continue to support people pushing this lie? Either way, it's a showcase of how morally vapid you are.

@HoolaHoopMan: Wish we had likes here because that deserves one.

@HoolaHoopMan: First of all I didn't make the fauci thread about the dogs.

Did Hillary Clinton refuse to concede in 2016? No.

3 years of Trump Colluded with the Russians to steal the 2016 election in hopes of over throwing his presidency. It didn't work so they made up a BS blackmail story with Ukraine, remember that? That didn't work either, all bullshit. Dems tried to overthrow Trumps administration from day 1. You know who pushed for that full blown Russia Trump conspiracy theory based investigation, the Clinton foundation lol..

Did the majority of Democratic legislators refuse to certify the 2016 election? No.

No, they just spent 3 years trying to impeach him over nothing lol

Did Barack Obama call state attorney generals in to overturn election results and find 'votes' to get another result? No.

Recounts and audits are fine, if its legit they wont find anything anyway

Did any democrat lead an insurrectionist crowd to storm the capital on the day of certification? No.

NO, But they endorsed 4 months of BLM riots across the country setting the bar for what's tolerable.

Didn't Trumps own lawyers admit in court that they did not believe there had been any election fraud?

My mistake on assuming that you made the dog thread. However, the first response in the thread (made by you) reaffirms everything I've said on the matter concerning your hypocrisy. But let's move on shall we:

If by 'BS blackmail story' you mean something verified and impeached over, then yes. The fact alone that you are ignoring the importance of such an event and glossing over it speaks volumes about you. But why not circle back on the topic at hand. Your responses are exactly what I expected (surprise surprise).

Do you buy into the big lie? It shouldn't be that hard to address the topic at hand instead of deflecting at every chance you get.

@HoolaHoopMan: was a literal down the line partisan vote, Dems controlled the house. They decided to impeach with 0 evidence of what they were claiming. Even the president of Ukraine said it was a good conversation and he never felt he was being blackmailed or pressured at all. Yet the Dems still went for it, it was never a legitimate impeachment. They just wanted him out by any means necessary. So save the BS " Dems took the higher rode" narrative. They were nothing of the sort. I say this as someone who could care less about the republicans or democrats. I'm just disgusted by the democrats more for their blatant hypocrisy. There was no higher ground taken by the left. They set the bar so low and you should not be surprised by the opposition following suite.

Quit dodging topic. You've already shown yourself to have a tenuous grasp with the truth so there's no sense in having you retype the same falsehoods over and over. Back to the topic:

Do you believe in the big lie? Yes or No?

@HoolaHoopMan: wtf is the " Big Lie"

@sargentd: The big lie is that the election was stolen. It wasnt.