War in Ukraine. Did the West handle the post Cold War era badly?

Everything is fine.

Wonderful.

Taking it well.

Next time I play Crusader Kings I will see if I can start a crusade against a fellow catholic nation. Pretend I am Putin.

Long watch but good.

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3613661-latvias-president-calls-for-setting-up-special-tribunal-for-russia.html

Latvia's president calls for setting up a special tribunal for Russia.

Well, well, well...

HIMARS is now in range of Myrne, which is where Russian trains resupply their southern offensive.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2022/11/14/russias-southern-supply-hub-is-now-in-range-of-ukraines-rockets-expect-explosions/?sh=4c74638f5c5b

Remarkable the effect HIMARS have when you take into account the scale of the country/war and how few there are actually on the ground.

They represent the difference in mentality as well.

Russia = spray and pray

Oh no, where my resources go!

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/russian-missiles-hit-poland-killing-two/ar-AA1495eo

So Russia just attacked and caused two deaths on a NATO country. Im curious to see if NATO will grow some balls now.

Given how terrible and wreckless Russia has been surprised this didn't happen sooner tbh.

Yeah, and NATO "updated" their response to this recklesness back in May I think.

Russia still putting out the "provocation" line, like at this point, anyone, anywhere, on the face of the earth buys that shit.

@uninspiredcup: There's several users here who do.

@kathaariancode: Well, they've been saying fighting Nato all along. Z bros, MAGA (i.e. Z bros) and Russia alike.

Now they potentially will. Let's see how that goes for them.

Some anti-propaganda for a change...

I need a video about how the CIA launched Polish land against Russian missiles. Quick!

@palasta: What does that video have to do with the events going on in Ukraine?

I listened to it for 12 minutes and I don't get it.

Edit: If this is another one of those Putin Apologist "You can't trust western media" takes that have been trending recently". I would just like to remind you that it is not just western media. Pretty much all the media in the world is condemning russia.

And that video was blatant propaganda. Misrepresenting several things like the Nitrobenzene thing entirely.

Social media is the worst thing that happened to reality. People buy into all propaganda and refuse to believe factual reporting.

While social media has done some good, I have to agree with you. On the bright side forums such as this one is why I found a lot of video games I really like. It was also key to helping me learn vegan recipes since information is sorely lacking otherwise.

But you are definately right that it has amplified the worst parts of our human nature. Willful ignorance in particular. Instead of showing us why our news stories are wrong. They show just lazily handwave them because they come from Mainstream media, or Western Media as they like to say now.

I very much believe that Social Media is why COVID got as bad as it did.

Remember Ivermectin? As soon as it became abundantly clear Ivermectin wasnt the miracle cure they were hoping for. They immediately tried handwaving it away, not accepting any responsibility for their very obvious error. And thus continue to repeat the same mistakes over and over, never learning from their mistakes.

And now the investigations are heavily pointing towards the missiles that killed two people in Poland were launched by Ukraine, not Russia. Imagine if you people actually waited for, and read the evidence before whipping yourselves up into an emotional frenzy.

I knew someone would post this bad take,

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/11/16/7376531/

Poland themselves have confirmed the missile was Russian and the Russian Embassador has to answer for it. Nice try though.

Edit: Even if the missile came from Ukraine, Russia would still be responsible considering Russia were the ones barraging Ukraine, which resulted in Ukraine launching missiles to shoot down the russian missiles.

Poland said it was a Russian design or Russian made, they didn't say it was launched by Russia. And the AP's report "confirming" this was the nameless "US official" that was speaking either out of dishonesty, or without evidence and it has since been corrected. He wasn't giving truthful information.

The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Poland stated that a Russian-made missile fell on the territory of the country on the afternoon of 15 November.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/16/ukraine-reacts-as-initial-findings-suggest-it-fired-the-missile-that-hit-poland.html

Even left wing media is correcting themselves.

Do you realize just how unlikely it is for Ukraine to use Russian Made Ballistics with all the supplies NATO has been providing them?

For the record, the most likely scenario is that It was a russian made and launched weapon, that was shot down and ended up hitting poland.

Either way, nothing changes the fact that several european countries are blaming Russia regardless of whether it was a russian or ukrainan missile.

If Russia hadnt been launching missiles in the first place, the incident in poland would not have happened.

And he just doubles and triples down despite nearly every news outlet saying it was most likely a Ukrainian missile.

Given how terrible and "spray and pray" the Russian army is it's no surprise the reaction to it. As said previously, amazed this hasn't happened yet.

Although agree if media are saying right away it's Russia without confirmation it's bad reporting.

It's still Russia responsible regardless. They are the aggressors, the one who started and keep it going, Ukraine is merely trying to protect its civilians.

Do you disagree with his last line? Would this had happened if Russia didn't invade Ukraine?

@eoten: “ And he just doubles and triples down despite nearly every news outlet saying it was most likely a Ukrainian missile.”

It was a Ukrainian missile, and it was cleared up very quickly, without retaliation by NATO on Russia.

You think Russia would have ‘fessed up so fast in the reverse situation?

You mean his attempt to shift goal posts after he believed and pushed what we now know to be disinformation? The story being spread was that Russia launched missiles that launched in Poland, killing two people. Do you still think that is true or can you admit you were wrong, and that the "news" probably doesn't have as much integrity as some of you would like to believe.

First of all, the story is still in development.

Second, the story was quickly changed to the likelyhood of them being ukrainian possibilies upon further investigation.

Third, despite all this, Poland is now questioning russia for this.

Fourth, Regardless of whether it was Ukrainian or Russia. Russia is still the one to blame. Had they not been barraging ukraine with missiles, Ukraine would not have shot missiles to shoot those missiles down.

You certainly weren't using that "in development" qualifier a couple days ago when you seemed pretty convinced Russia launched the missiles that landed in Poland. You fell for what you keep referring to as "journalistic integrity" in other threads without questioning the information you were given. Even after you were given evidence showing you to be wrong, you still doubled down on what you were first told, you didn't care about the truth, you were too preoccupied with hating Russia to care. Yeah, there will probably be a third world war, and Sweden will probably see conflict inside their borders, because people like you refuse to take the opportunities to learn about the situation when they actually present themselves to you, and you refuse to question official narratives.

This is really rich coming from you.

Probably because the Russian army is bad, and their sole tactic now is targetting civilians.

Seem to be acting like "well if Russia didn't do this they have been misjudged!"

No my bro, they are terrible and consistently being terrible. And they (not the West) are the biggest proprietor of propaganda. The entire thing is based on a lie, which even just reading above can see you're chomping up trying to omit Russia from blame redirecting it to Nato.

Which is just, ridiculous.

Russia expected an easy steam roll victory, with a farce election to have Ukraine collapse into Russia.

They did not expect Nato to help.

They did not expect their army to be wholly inept.

They did not expect the Ukraine reaction or Ukraine to take up arms and (objectively) fight better.

To grant your point prev, if the media falsely jumped the gun, that def needs called out.

But acting like this somehow absolves Russia from being a horrible to the core state committing war crimes on a daily (hourly) basis is just diddle.

Because that is only part of the whole thing I am saying.

What is more important to note here, and what most european leaders seem to think. Is that regardless of whom the missiles came from. The fact is, the reason those missiles landed there in the first place was because of Russia's strategy of indiscriminately targetting ukrainian civilians with their recent missile barrage.

Had that missile barrage not been a thing, Poland would not have been hit.

And the one who is delusional here is you. How many times have people corrected you throughout this thread, because you keep siding up with Russia?

Regardless of who launched the missile. This would NEVER have happened if Russia didnt launch their barrage of 100 missiles at ukraine.

Since Eoten seems to get so riled up whenever I post pro-Ukraine and as well as pro-urban messaging, how about I combine the two?

@Maroxad:

Excellent, I fight Putin 5 times a week. :D

You mean at least 5 times a week? ;)

I dunno about you but I also use my bike on weekends :D

Sometimes yeah. Now it would be nice with some sort of towing capability on it for Christmas shopping.

ROFLMAO, CNN has been banned from Ukraine, or at least the recently liberated portion of it after one of their cameras caught one of the citizens celebrating giving the Nazi salute on camera.

Things just keep looking worse and worse for Russia

Russia Branded as a state sponsor of terrorism in european parliament draft resolution.

Ouch. Europe called them a mean word. That'll teach 'em.

The fact that you dont know the implications behind this... isn't very surprising.

Since you clearly don't know...

This means Russia will get sanctioned way harder from the EU than before.

Still delusional is see.

How U.S. Military Aid Has Helped Ukraine Since 2014

https://www.npr.org/2019/12/18/788874844/how-u-s-military-aid-has-helped-ukraine-since-2014

https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-office/2014/11/21/fact-sheet-us-assistance-ukraine

@eoten: No idea why that would make you laugh, especially as it’s not true. CNN have not been banned. Individual journalists including cnn and sky news have had their accreditation revoked for violating rules on reporting in a war zone. There are still cnn journos in Ukraine, because they didn’t rush into Kherson before the Ukrainian army declared it safe.

@uninspiredcup: Syria gave them a false sense of impunity and they assumed that was in some extent due to their military might. We should have done more but choose to ignore the horrible stuff they did there.

During the first weeks of the war I've seen several orcs saying that the experience they gained in Syria would be preponderant for a quick victory in Ukraine. Propaganda led them to believe they were already facing western powers and winning.

Not unlike now, where they are selling the idea that they are facing the full might of western powers in Ukraine.

@palasta: Of course we’ve helped Ukraine. …but it was as you know a result of Russia helping the Donbas separatists. If Russia stopped trying to annex regions, all we’d be talking about is Gamepass, god of war and Twitter.

@palasta: Seem to not be able to differentiate between training/given a shit ton of weapons that make Ukraine the superior army.

If think Russia predicted this, lol

In fact even if Russia was just fighting a standard army they would be considered poorly equipped.

In many cases, they literally do not have tents or other basic supplies.

Friendly reminder -

Russia isn't poor even with sanctions, it's corrupt. That's the difference. At every level their army fails because of it even before sanctions were even in effect.

The Z bros blurting "oh, fighting Nato so brave!" trying to recontextualize it as some David and Goliath are just using mental gymnastics to circumvent the fact Russia fucked up and are too stupid to go in reverse. Getting a shit ton of people (including deliberately targeting civs) killed.

They have (and do) live in an alternate reality.

Vid below goes into detail about the Russian army. But again, super long watch.

Everyone passes the buck to be self-serving in a long chain-link where everyone is complaint in living in an alternate reality, reaches all the way up to Putin who is given a distorted view of what is actually happening, where everyone has incrementally chipped in to save their own asses.

That's in, and around the Russia army. It's part of Russian culture. Not only is it a terrible army, it's a poorly equipped terrible army.

Ukraine (at least part of its army) has superior modernized training. And is currently getting that training as we speak.

These vids condense a lot of detail but basically can be summarized as "Russia biggest problem is Russia" (while unironically condemning the West and Ukraine as inferior cultures)

Now they are at a point where conscripts and being given out of date bread and a decommissioned AK that's not safe to use.

This of course, is Natos fault.

Lmfao, yeah, pretend CNN didn't catch one of the celebrating citizens giving a Nazi salute in front of a crowd of people immediately before that happened either. It doesn't fit your narrative, so convince yourself it didn't happen.