Would everyone who said "Best economy ever" unironically please form a line?

https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/20/investing/dow-jones-nasdaq-oil-prices/index.html

We tried telling you that fundamental indicators in the economy were not sound. We tried telling you that wages are stagnant. We warned you that consumer spending indexes were not aligned with stock market growth, but you just wouldn't listen to reason. Your trickle up economic demigods have abandoned you, conservatives. This is a textbook presentation of how stratified economies work and you are left with a rising national debt for the pleasure. That means your tax dollars, by the way, because whether we pay against the principal of the money borrowed for the Trump tax cut or not, it's coming out of all our asses. The profit reaping has begun before retail could even give you this holidays' earnings on something as simple as a rate hike.

This is how paper-thin your "best economy ever" truly was. Your crow is being served fresh and hot, now. Take a number and a seat.

Well, it sounds to me like the people in charge are due for multi-billion dollar bonuses at this point.

The most you will get is spin...

Lookout below

I'm happy. When the Fed finally finishes pulling the plug on this house of cards, I'll make a killing.

lol, quite the drama there OP.

Wages have been stagnant for years before Trump took office. One of those pieces of history that ceased to exist once Trump is elected. You want to have an impact on low wages, get immigration under control.

From 2018-19, we're expected to collect 1.63 trillion in income tax revenue, the highest dollar amount we've ever collected and accounts for half of the tax receipts. The tax cuts have mainly come in the form of corporate tax cuts. If you think corporate tax cuts are born from the rich, you have no idea how corporate taxes work.

@vl4d_l3nin: Immigration was brought under control and Obama was the greatest deporter in chief the country ever had before Trump doubled down to the point where fruits and vegetables literally rot in the fields because no one is picking them. So, no. Targeting the absolute fringe of the bottom rung of our economy is NOT the boogeyman holding wages back.

Frankly, as much crap that the Chevy CEO got for closing plants, she positioned the company to weather this storm at the exact right time. Those jobs, though, were not low wage jobs. The pain is coming. Do weigh your narratives going forward.

@Shewgenja: Well that just doesn't really jive with people with some knowledge on the subject.

Keep in mind this dude is incredibly well versed in economics, as well as maintained Canada with the largest per capita immigration program, so he isn't some racist anti-immigrant meanie. Quite the opposite.

He goes into further detail in his book

Whether we are talking about the low-wage corporatism of liberals, or the "open-borders" alienism of the hard-left, if you reward illegal immigration, ignore security threats, encourage the multiculturalism that fractures society..two things will happen: The immigrants and the working class will often fail, and immigrants will be widely resented.

This is the direction too many developed countries have been going, and they are experiencing a backlash. It is time for policy makers in those countries to stop pretending that every aspect of the backlash is due to bigotry and stop blaming the public for mistakes they have made.

EDIT: Obamas deportation levels were nowhere near Clintons. It's just Obama's super liberal DOJ had expanded the definition of deportation.

@vl4d_l3nin: Right, and the prognostication is to set the US on a collision course with a population bust leading to a permanently sagged economy like Japan in the 90s (and since)?

And this would be way easier to take at face value if we weren't talking about the sunny side of immigration policy for a President who wants children to die, lose their families, and get maced.

what would the 1.63T have been w/o the tax cuts?

@Shewgenja: I can see you've drank the kool-aid dry, my friend. Child separation was a 2016 ruling by one of the most liberal courts in the country, and we had agents lobbing tear gas at border jumpers more than once a month in 2014. It's actually a regular thing to send troops with non-lethal weaponry to the border. It's only projected to increase until we do something about it

@comp_atkins: Hard to say. Income tax receipts are up $96B compared to 2017 when rates were higher, so it's hard to say there was much of an effect on revenue at all.

This isn't the case with corporate taxes. Vast majority revenue shortfall in 2018 ($270B as of September) is because of the change in corporate tax rates.

@vl4d_l3nin: Well, funny you should say that since I mentioned Obama being, and I quote, the "reporter in chief." I must say that as much as I am utterly disgusted by neoliberal centrist corporate Democrats, they do have the wherewithal to at least attempt to silence the rattling skeletons in their closets. Stark contrast to the current regressivists on the right who actually glorify such things as self-styled Glad Tapes hoping that stories of atrocity will keep the brown people out.

More tea?

I dont think anybody but Trump was using the phrase "best economy ever". Most intelligent people dont use "best" and "ever" to describe anything. His tax cuts were irresponsible, but that's not why we're in a current bear market. Capitalistic economies go through periods of growth and then correction. At least that's how the US has been for the last 100 years. People have been predicting a downturn in the market for quite some time. So what is your point?

I think that's his point.

Here is the political reality today

Two options

A. Corporate Democrats/neo Liberals..cry about it all you want

B. Country control by Russia or a 1 trillion dollar war based on lies

now I understand the complaints about the establishment liberals but holy **** cow the other option is a lot worse

It’s threads like this that make it difficult to talk to liberals. I mean, they quote cnn - the network that started the fake news moniker.

Did you already knew it was fake news before or somebody like Trump had to tell it to you?

@watercrack445: Yes. The campaign was proof enough.

1. Fake News has been around for longer than CNN. Unless CNN is WAAAAY older than I thought it was.
2. You are commiting a genetic fallacy.

@Maroxad: ‘genetic fallacy’?

Thank you for proving my point.

Sometimes, when the pilot is drunk and the co-pilot is high, you grab a gun and you hijack the plane because it's the best option.

you mean you aren't aware of the constant logical fallacies you commit?

Yes you commited a genetic fallacy. Even if the "liberals" quote CNN? So what? The source doesnt matter, what matters is the argument provided.

And while I am at it. Fox News is less accurate than CNN.

@Maroxad: ‘Fox News is less accurate than CNN.’

Such a bullshit argument. Why, because you slant liberal? Who’s your source? CNN, NYT, WP? Come on...

It's been a huge inflated bubble since the federal reserve started to increase its balance sheet and use quantitative easing as a policy to fix the economy.

Cheap money, more stocks being bought, and lots of banks going unchecked with their large sums of money.

Big bubble will create an even larger crash, much larger than 2008.

I hope you have ammo, rations, a MAGA hat, a bunker, and a chest filled of bullion coins.

Actually my state is getting a wage increase in January, so much for stagnant wages. Suck it up, buttercups. Trump 2020!

Except it is true, CNN are very sensationalist, but you wont catch them embarassing themselves like Fox did with

And here is their politifact page. CNN doesnt really have a scorecard yet since they were only fact checked once.

https://www.politifact.com/punditfact/tv/fox/

NYT and WP Journalists have several Pulitzer prizes and CNN have won multiple Peabody Awards. How many have Fox News won? Zero

@Maroxad: You proved nothing other than the media in general - including their watchdogs - hold an obvious left wing slant.

If the watchdogs hold a left wing slant, that most likely means reality holds a left wing slant.

Wait... Are facts left leaning now?

Appearantly so.

Since Media Watchdogs just judge the media on facts and facts alone.

Then where is the middle ground? Which facts do we ignore to reach the middle? :P

@horgen: Whichever ones you want. The middle is whatever you personally believe because you can always a find a source to tell you what you want to hear and assure you all the other sources are wrong.

Yeah the right doesn't like facts...........

@Damedius: Anyone with cash will. Just buy an index fund and ride the bubble back up. Rinse and repeat every decade or so.

@Sevenizz: I’ll bet you have Alex Jones in your bookmarks.

@horgen: good point about the right wing. Alot of their news is complete worthless trash, especially when they start questioning established science. But then again, the right does make some good points about the left on identity politics and political correctness. Also the right is the only side concerned about illegal immigration. The left also has gone off the rails with the SJWs.

Both sides are against illegal immigration. You might have a vocal minority on the left that screams something that resembles open borders. Both sides wants to stop illegal immigration. It's how they want it done that differs greatly.

This is gonna be so much fun. :P

@horgen: Majority of the left is for illegal immigration.

@vl4d_l3nin: immigration has nothing to do with wages.

Everything has to be taxes and no common day company can get away with havinh employees that the us can't tax. The only exception are companies paying under the table...which are farmers, some construction jobs, and a few low end cleaning jobs.

Even the illegal immigrants pay taxes.

Mean while you keep voting in people who do not want to raise pay.

Even Obama wanted to raise pay and was stop by a republican controlled house and Senate.

And you voted in Mr.MAGA Trump who did not and would no commit to raising pay in general.

And won't.

Sorry you can't blame immigrants or democrats. It's your guy fault for use being in this mess. Because you keep voting for the same dumb people who work ageints our interest and the same snake oil salesman who lie to you and says they can make everything better with out telling you a plan.

Now enjoy the wall they are not going to build that will use your tax dollars anyway.

@vl4d_l3nin: source?

@Guy_Brohski: and which state is that?

Seeing as the deficit has grown immensely, revenue would have probably been HIGHER if the tax cuts weren't implemented. We've already been down this road before when we asked for clarification on his interpretation of the Laffer curve weeks ago (which is surprisingly ignored). Plus, I already posited this line of questioned when just claiming 'revenue is up', despite it being up in nearly every year due to GDP growth and inflation.

@Baconstrip78: Nope - I was never a fan. He’s too shouty for my taste.

maybe the strategy is to pull in a few people into that bullshit who will not notice? not sure what the strategy is.

some people lie and obfuscate first, then think about what is there to gain from it and how second

I remember Obama being against it... Though I guess it seems so if the alternative to being for illegal immigration is some form of psychotic(sorry wrong probably) and inhumane treatment of illegal aliens.

Obama and many Democrats were against it and for strong borders in 2005 and before he went for re-election, now they are for open borders and no democrat dare utter the words "I am against illegal immigration"

I guess it is difficult... They are definitely for more open borders than Trump is.

Democrats will continue to work toward comprehensive immigration reform that fixes our nation’s broken immigration system, improves border security, prioritizes enforcement so we are targeting criminals – not families, keeps families together, and strengthens our economy.

Not really difficult, the Democrats know that in many red states the Latino population is rapidly growing and that key states like Texas, New Mexico will be majority Hispanics in a few years which translates into votes and control like California.

So yes they will continue to work for reform, reform that will secure the 12million illegals voting rights.

FYI Obama deported more illegals than other presidents. Illegal immigration was down. It's rising now with trump in office.

Not true. No one wants open borders. That's a conservative talking point.

@Jacanuk: Latinos traditionally lean red aside from the GOP immigration stances. If the GOP wasn't so ridiculous on the topic, it would be a boon for the party.