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Now that Lebron's defense has improved and he has matched Kobe's 3 point shooting % is Lebron the better player overall? (I know some already thinkLebron is better) Or is it D-Wade?
Note: The question is not who has won the most rings or has the most accomplishments, it's about skill level only.
Kobe>LeBron>>Wade.Master_LiveYup.
Wade is averaging nearly 30 points a game which is the best and he also averages more steals. If it wasn't his teams bad record he'd be in the top 2 for MVP if not the number 1. This is also coming from a Kobe fan. Wade just made one of the best plays I've ever seen. The game was tied 127-127 Wade stole the ball with like 4 sec left and hit a 3 at the buzzer to win 130-127 in Overtime #2.
Kobe>LeBron>>Wade.Master_Livethis right here. no one has a bigger impact then Lebron or Kobe, D Wade as good as he is playing this year still doesn't compare to Lebron or Kobe. It's hard to choose which one I would want with the ball in their hands last, but it would definitely come down to those two. there's no better closers in the game today then Lebron and Kobe
[QUOTE="Master_Live"]Kobe>LeBron>>Wade.andyboiiithis right here. no one has a bigger impact then Lebron or Kobe, D Wade as good as he is playing this year still doesn't compare to Lebron or Kobe. It's hard to choose which one I would want with the ball in their hands last, but it would definitely come down to those two. there's no better closers in the game today then Lebron and Kobe
What do you mean? Wade is the number 1 scorer in the NBA and he also has more steals then Lebron/Kobe. He is being overlooked because his team isn't that great.
Wade's a big game-big shot player as well, which makes him a nearly perfect 2-gaurd.Wade is averaging nearly 30 points a game which is the best and he also averages more steals. If it wasn't his teams bad record he'd be in the top 2 for MVP if not the number 1. This is also coming from a Kobe fan. Wade just made one of the best plays I've ever seen. The game was tied 127-127 Wade stole the ball with like 4 sec left and hit a 3 at the buzzer to win 130-127 in Overtime #2.
nVidiaGaMer
[QUOTE="Master_Live"]Kobe>LeBron>>Wade.andyboiiithis right here. no one has a bigger impact then Lebron or Kobe, D Wade as good as he is playing this year still doesn't compare to Lebron or Kobe. It's hard to choose which one I would want with the ball in their hands last, but it would definitely come down to those two. there's no better closers in the game today then Lebron and Kobe How does Kobe make a bigger impact than Wade? I could see the Lebron argument because he does nearly everything, but Kobe? Must be nice to play for the Lakers. 48 points, 12 assists, 4 steals and 3 blocks, 6 rebounds,along with one of the best game winning plays you will ever see. Show me a game where Kobe ever did that. Wade has had lines like that all season long. Wade averages a block and a half per game along with 2.3 steals, this compared to Kobe's 0.4 blocks and 1.3 steals per game. leading the NBA in scoring while at the same time dishing off 8 assists per game, compared to Kobes 5 assists. The only area Kobe may have some sort of claim as better than Wade is with theoutside shot, and theyre almost equal in 3PT%. If D-Wade was a Laker he would be hands down the best player in the game and this years MVP.
wade had himself another huge game tonight. He's making a big push for MVP these past couple weeks. I still don't think it will be enough to overtake Lebron, but he deserves some serious consideration. And to the post above, with me being an objective fan and having no bias towards kobe or wade, i can't argue with one thing yousaid. I have no doubt that Wade would be just as affective as kobe if he was on the lakers
Most probably know I'm a big Kobe fan, but I'm also a fair-minded person. If I would place Kobe first it would be because of what he has done in past years and therefore what I know he can do now if his team needed it(which it does tonight because the Blazers are waxin' the Lakers right now). I remember Kobe's 40+month of Feb, 2003(with a good number of rbs and assists too). Also his 5 straight games of 50 points, 81 in a game, 62 in 3 quarters.....etc. Lebron and Wade have yet to match those type of performances over the length of time that Kobe has.
Having said all that, for this season I could easily agree with 1-Wade, 2-Lebron, 3-Kobe. Wade is hoopin', big time! I'm surprised Wade is not getting as much press as Lebron (but not really). The NBA has already crowned Lebron "King" before he has won a ring.
But, if Wade gets MVP this yearthe league should take those from Nash and Nowitski and give them to Kobe, imo. Which is it (MVP), Best player or Best player on one of the best teams?? I think MVP should always be "Best player with the most valuable basketball skills"
Most probably know I'm a big Kobe fan, but I'm also a fair-minded person. If I would place Kobe first it would be because of what he has done in past years and therefore what I know he can do now if his team needed it(which it does tonight because the Blazers are waxin' the Lakers right now). I remember Kobe's 40+month of Feb, 2003(with a good number of rbs and assists too). Also his 5 straight games of 50 points, 81 in a game, 62 in 3 quarters.....etc. Lebron and Wade have yet to match those type of performances over the length of time that Kobe has.
Having said all that, for this season I could easily agree with 1-Wade, 2-Lebron, 3-Kobe. Wade is hoopin', big time! I'm surprised Wade is not getting as much press as Lebron (but not really). The NBA has already crowned Lebron "King" before he has won a ring.
But, if Wade gets MVP this yearthe league should take those from Nash and Nowitski and give them to Kobe, imo. Which is it (MVP), Best player or Best player on one of the best teams?? I think MVP should always be "Best player with the most valuable basketball skills"
i have to disagree w/ that last part. I don't think it should be the best player, because if that was the case MJ would have had 11-12 MVP's and Kobe would prob be on 4-5 right about now. I think most "valuable" implies the importance to their team and what would happen if they were removed. The 2 MVP's for Nash were legit because you could see how that team functioned when he was hurt, or just on the bench resting. It was like that team forgot how to play basketball. Where if my memory serves me correctly, the Lakers were about a .500 team during those years, and they had around a .500 record in games Kobe didn't play. Now does this mean Nash is better than Kobe, of course not, but his value during those years weren't as important as Nash. That's why Lebron will win this year. He's on one of, if not teh best team in the game, and he has a hand in every aspect of the game.[QUOTE="jfcundiff"]I am a Heat fan, but I will say Kobe is the best overall player followed by Lebron and then Wade. nikolai37Wade and LeBron are both much better all around players than kobe. Because LeBron or Wade have been to 8 All Defensive Teams like Kobe.... Oh wait, they haven't. :| GTFOH with that BS. Kobe is the most wel rounded player in the game, offensively and defensively. Lebron and Wade are nowhere near the presence on the defensive end that Kobe is, nor are they as skilled with the game on the line.
What do you mean? Wade is the number 1 scorer in the NBA and he also has more steals then Lebron/Kobe. He is being overlooked because his team isn't that great.nVidiaGaMer
we're not just talking about this year ;) Kobe has had far better seasons then Wade before, just because wade is putting up better numbers this year statistically does not make him the better player all of a sudden. Lakers are blowing out teams so bad Kobe hasn't played in the 4th quarter 8 times this year, he also has a better team around him so he doesn't have to carry the load as he once did when he averaged 35 ppg in a season back when Kwame and smush parker were his teammates. And if you want to talk This year though as far as average teams go, Lebron does a little more for his team then Wade. In their head to head matchup Lebron led the Cavs to a win over Wade and the Heat twice this year.
[QUOTE="nikolai37"][QUOTE="jfcundiff"]I am a Heat fan, but I will say Kobe is the best overall player followed by Lebron and then Wade. -Halftime-Wade and LeBron are both much better all around players than kobe. Because LeBron or Wade have been to 8 All Defensive Teams like Kobe.... Oh wait, they haven't. :| GTFOH with that BS. Kobe is the most wel rounded player in the game, offensively and defensively. Lebron and Wade are nowhere near the presence on the defensive end that Kobe is, nor are they as skilled with the game on the line. That is pure bia's saying Kobe is more well rounded than Wade or LeBron. It's not only purely biased it's utterly ridiculous.
[QUOTE="-Halftime-"][QUOTE="nikolai37"] Wade and LeBron are both much better all around players than kobe.nikolai37Because LeBron or Wade have been to 8 All Defensive Teams like Kobe.... Oh wait, they haven't. :| GTFOH with that BS. Kobe is the most wel rounded player in the game, offensively and defensively. Lebron and Wade are nowhere near the presence on the defensive end that Kobe is, nor are they as skilled with the game on the line. That is pure bia's saying Kobe is more well rounded than Wade or LeBron. It's not only purely biased it's utterly ridiculous. It's actually not utterly ridiculous at all. Kobe is a better shooter, pure scorer(As evidenced by his 35 PPG season in 06, which IDK, also happens to be the eighth highest single season avg EVER) better defender(This is no contest), better clutch player(This is no contest) than either Bron or Wade. The only thing either do better arguably is pass. LeBron is an exceptional passer. I find it funny how you discredit all Kobe has done. Quite hilarious, actually. Kobe has done everything Wade and LeBron done and more.
[QUOTE="nVidiaGaMer"]What do you mean? Wade is the number 1 scorer in the NBA and he also has more steals then Lebron/Kobe. He is being overlooked because his team isn't that great.andyboiii
we're not just talking about this year ;) Kobe has had far better seasons then Wade before, just because wade is putting up better numbers this year statistically does not make him the better player all of a sudden. Lakers are blowing out teams so bad Kobe hasn't played in the 4th quarter 8 times this year, he also has a better team around him so he doesn't have to carry the load as he once did when he averaged 35 ppg in a season back when Kwame and smush parker were his teammates. And if you want to talk This year though as far as average teams go, Lebron does a little more for his team then Wade. In their head to head matchup Lebron led the Cavs to a win over Wade and the Heat twice this year.
The only legit argument that can be used is Kobe having been in the league for so many more seasons than LeBron or Wade. Just like I'm sure nobody would admit Jordan was the best player in the game over magic or Bird in his earlier seasons with the Bulls. There is no base to the statement of saying Kobe could lead the league in scoring while at the same time dishing 8 assists per on a good or bad team. Miami should be a bad team, they just added two current starter's in a trade and theyre a 4 or 5 seed. IMO nobody, including Kobe, can do what Wade does for a team.[QUOTE="nikolai37"] 8 all defensive teams, that's not an opinion, that's a fact ;)andyboiii
[QUOTE="nikolai37"]That is pure bia's saying Kobe is more well rounded than Wade or LeBron. It's not only purely biased it's utterly ridiculous.andyboiii8 all defensive teams, that's not an opinion, that's a fact ;) yea youre right, Kobe's been in the NBA for a long time. Wade's a better player now though.
[QUOTE="andyboiii"][QUOTE="nikolai37"] [QUOTE="andyboiii"][QUOTE="nikolai37"]That is pure bia's saying Kobe is more well rounded than Wade or LeBron. It's not only purely biased it's utterly ridiculous.nikolai378 all defensive teams, that's not an opinion, that's a fact ;) yea youre right, Kobe's been in the NBA for a long time. Wade's a better player now though. Nope. Better jumper? Kobe. Better defender? Kobe. Better scorer? Kobe.(If Kobe got all the shots that Wade does on a mediocre team like the Heat he'd be putting up Wade's point numbers. Believe that. All you have to do is look at the 2006 season when Kobe had a similar supporting cast that was WORSE talent wise than D-Wade's cast this season and put 35 ppg.) I'm not even going to get into who's the better clutch player because Kobe has done in crunch times at all stages, nothing needs to be said)
[QUOTE="nikolai37"][QUOTE="-Halftime-"] Because LeBron or Wade have been to 8 All Defensive Teams like Kobe.... Oh wait, they haven't. :| GTFOH with that BS. Kobe is the most wel rounded player in the game, offensively and defensively. Lebron and Wade are nowhere near the presence on the defensive end that Kobe is, nor are they as skilled with the game on the line.-Halftime-That is pure bia's saying Kobe is more well rounded than Wade or LeBron. It's not only purely biased it's utterly ridiculous. It's actually not utterly ridiculous at all. Kobe is a better shooter, pure scorer(As evidenced by his 35 PPG season in 06, which IDK, also happens to be the eighth highest single season avg EVER) better defender(This is no contest), better clutch player(This is no contest) than either Bron or Wade. The only thing either do better arguably is pass. LeBron is an exceptional passer. I find it funny how you discredit all Kobe has done. Quite hilarious, actually. Kobe has done everything Wade and LeBron done and more. Wade's one championship performance is better than all 4 of Kobe's combined. Ask Kobe if he would rather have all his finals performances or have been Wade in his one finals performance and Im sure he would agree.
[QUOTE="nikolai37"][QUOTE="andyboiii"] 8 all defensive teams, that's not an opinion, that's a fact ;)-Halftime-yea youre right, Kobe's been in the NBA for a long time. Wade's a better player now though. Nope. Better jumper? Kobe. Better defender? Kobe. Better scorer? Kobe.(If Kobe got all the shots that Wade does on a mediocre team like the Heat he'd be putting up Wade's point numbers. Believe that. All you have to do is look at the 2006 season when Kobe had a similar supporting cast that was WORSE talent wise than D-Wade's cast this season and put 35 ppg.) I'm not even going to get into who's the better clutch player because Kobe has done in crunch times at all stages, nothing needs to be said) Kobe's not a better defender than Wade is right now, no way, thats your opinion and definetly not a fact. Kobe's a better jumper but I guess that dont matter because Wade somehow actually blocks shots, and alot of time multiple shots, nearly everygame. Kobe's so clutch, yea right.
yea youre right, Kobe's been in the NBA for a long time. Wade's a better player now though.nikolai37let's not forget what Kobe did with his bad team when he had Kwame, Smush, Walton and led that group of sorry players in a tough western conference to the playoffs. of course Heat are going to be a 5th seed in the sorry eastern conference. you know what being a .540 team in the west gets you? you don't even make the playoffs with that record in the western conference. As of right now the 8th placed team in the west has a winning record of .603. the heat wouldn't even be in the playoff picture if they were in the west
[QUOTE="-Halftime-"][QUOTE="nikolai37"] That is pure bia's saying Kobe is more well rounded than Wade or LeBron. It's not only purely biased it's utterly ridiculous.nikolai37It's actually not utterly ridiculous at all. Kobe is a better shooter, pure scorer(As evidenced by his 35 PPG season in 06, which IDK, also happens to be the eighth highest single season avg EVER) better defender(This is no contest), better clutch player(This is no contest) than either Bron or Wade. The only thing either do better arguably is pass. LeBron is an exceptional passer. I find it funny how you discredit all Kobe has done. Quite hilarious, actually. Kobe has done everything Wade and LeBron done and more. Wade's one championship performance is better than all 4 of Kobe's combined. Ask Kobe if he would rather have all his finals performances or have been Wade in his one finals performance and Im sure he would agree. No **** Wade's championship performance was impressive that year. It was the single most impressive EVER if you go by John hollinger's Player Efficency Rating system.. I guess that means Wade is the greatest player of all time:roll: We're not talking about championships, though. We're talking about who's the better player. And that goes to Kobe. He's the best basketball player on the planet right now. And even if we were talking about chaampionships, I could talk about how Kobe was a main fixture on only the fifth team in basketball history to three peat:wink:
"i have to disagree w/ that last part. I don't think it should be the best player, because if that was the case MJ would have had 11-12 MVP's and Kobe would prob be on 4-5 right about now. I think most "valuable" implies the importance to their team and what would happen if they were removed. The 2 MVP's for Nash were legit because you could see how that team functioned when he was hurt, or just on the bench resting...."
The league needs to concretely define "MVP" (if they haven't and I don't think they have). Personally I just like my previous definition, not saying I'm right though. Over the years I don't believe its been consistent.
With the offense the Suns ran, with Nash being the "quarterback", yes, if he's removed the team will flounder, but you end up giving the MVP to a player who plays one side of the court and of lesser skill than another. Just don't like that. But what I'm saying about Wade is if he gets it because he's playing the best all-round ballthis year then Kobe should get Nash's trophy's, not saying that Nash didn't deserve it based on the "definition" of MVP that year. Nash's MVP's were "legit" by that definition, now I hearanalystswanting to change the definition and give it to Wade. Don't think MJ would have 11-12 MVP's , he wasn't always the great defender he was in the middle of his career.
[QUOTE="-Halftime-"][QUOTE="nikolai37"] yea youre right, Kobe's been in the NBA for a long time. Wade's a better player now though.nikolai37Nope. Better jumper? Kobe. Better defender? Kobe. Better scorer? Kobe.(If Kobe got all the shots that Wade does on a mediocre team like the Heat he'd be putting up Wade's point numbers. Believe that. All you have to do is look at the 2006 season when Kobe had a similar supporting cast that was WORSE talent wise than D-Wade's cast this season and put 35 ppg.) I'm not even going to get into who's the better clutch player because Kobe has done in crunch times at all stages, nothing needs to be said) Kobe's not a better defender than Wade is right now, no way, thats your opinion and definetly not a fact. Kobe's a better jumper but I guess that dont matter because Wade somehow actually blocks shots, and alot of time multiple shots, nearly everygame. Kobe's so clutch, yea right. Kobe isn't cluch? How old are you? Did you watch in 2000 when Kobe took over game 4 of the NBA Finals in OT and willed the Lakers to a win? Did you see the shot against portland to win the division? What about the 25 point, 11 rebound, 7 assist, 4 block game in game 7 against the Blazers in the WCF in 2000? What about the shot against Phoenix in 06? What about the 29, 7 and 6 he averaged for the 2001 playoffs while his team went 15-1? You are an absolute joke if you think that Wade is a more clutch player than Kobe. He's done it on the biggest stages so many more times than Wade or Lebron COMBINED. Also, Mr Basketball Guru, Wade averaging more blocks doesn't make him a better defender. Being a great defender goes beyond blocks and steals. I think you'd know that if you actually looked at the all defensive teams throughout history.
[QUOTE="nikolai37"][QUOTE="-Halftime-"] It's actually not utterly ridiculous at all. Kobe is a better shooter, pure scorer(As evidenced by his 35 PPG season in 06, which IDK, also happens to be the eighth highest single season avg EVER) better defender(This is no contest), better clutch player(This is no contest) than either Bron or Wade. The only thing either do better arguably is pass. LeBron is an exceptional passer. I find it funny how you discredit all Kobe has done. Quite hilarious, actually. Kobe has done everything Wade and LeBron done and more.-Halftime-Wade's one championship performance is better than all 4 of Kobe's combined. Ask Kobe if he would rather have all his finals performances or have been Wade in his one finals performance and Im sure he would agree. No **** Wade's championship performance was impressive that year. It was the single most impressive EVER if you go by John hollinger's Player Efficency Rating system.. I guess that means Wade is the greatest player of all time:roll: We're not talking about championships, though. We're talking about who's the better player. And that goes to Kobe. He's the best basketball player on the planet right now. And even if we were talking about chaampionships, I could talk about how Kobe was a main fixture on only the fifth team in basketball history to three peat:wink: So your opinion is that Kobe's still somehow a better player than Wade? Yea ok.
[QUOTE="-Halftime-"][QUOTE="nikolai37"] Wade's one championship performance is better than all 4 of Kobe's combined. Ask Kobe if he would rather have all his finals performances or have been Wade in his one finals performance and Im sure he would agree.nikolai37No **** Wade's championship performance was impressive that year. It was the single most impressive EVER if you go by John hollinger's Player Efficency Rating system.. I guess that means Wade is the greatest player of all time:roll: We're not talking about championships, though. We're talking about who's the better player. And that goes to Kobe. He's the best basketball player on the planet right now. And even if we were talking about chaampionships, I could talk about how Kobe was a main fixture on only the fifth team in basketball history to three peat:wink: So your opinion is that Kobe's still somehow a better player than Wade? Yea ok. You've been watching basketball only a few years, I can tell when you said Kobe isn't clutch. Even the most biased Lakers and or kobe hater knows that Kobe is the best clutch player in the game. You're a joke and there's no use arguing with fools. Wade isn't better because he averages more blocks, nor is he better because he had a great finals series in 2006. But you're the all knowing basketball guru who doesn't think 8 defensive teams make someone a good defender, and that Kobe, a sure fire hall of famer and one of the greatest Lakers ever, isn't in Lebron or Wade's stratosphere when he's accomplished more than both of them.
[QUOTE="nikolai37"][QUOTE="-Halftime-"] Nope. Better jumper? Kobe. Better defender? Kobe. Better scorer? Kobe.(If Kobe got all the shots that Wade does on a mediocre team like the Heat he'd be putting up Wade's point numbers. Believe that. All you have to do is look at the 2006 season when Kobe had a similar supporting cast that was WORSE talent wise than D-Wade's cast this season and put 35 ppg.) I'm not even going to get into who's the better clutch player because Kobe has done in crunch times at all stages, nothing needs to be said)-Halftime-Kobe's not a better defender than Wade is right now, no way, thats your opinion and definetly not a fact. Kobe's a better jumper but I guess that dont matter because Wade somehow actually blocks shots, and alot of time multiple shots, nearly everygame. Kobe's so clutch, yea right. Kobe isn't cluch? How old are you? Did you watch in 2000 when Kobe took over game 4 of the NBA Finals in OT and willed the Lakers to a win? Did you see the shot against portland to win the division? What about the 25 point, 11 rebound, 7 assist, 4 block game in game 7 against the Blazers in the WCF in 2000? What about the shot against Phoenix in 06? What about the 29, 7 and 6 he averaged for the 2001 playoffs while his team went 15-1? You are an absolute joke if you think that Wade is a more clutch player than Kobe. He's done it on the biggest stages so many more times than Wade or Lebron COMBINED. Also, Mr Basketball Guru, Wade averaging more blocks doesn't make him a better defender. Being a great defender goes beyond blocks and steals. I think you'd know that if you actually looked at the all defensive teams throughout history. I think Kobe's a solid clutch player, Id rather have him over LeBron in the last seconds of a big game. But listening to a Laker honk you would think he is Jordan when he is not even close to that level. I didnt say Wade's a great defender just based on stats, but he has them as well.
[QUOTE="-Halftime-"][QUOTE="nikolai37"] Kobe's not a better defender than Wade is right now, no way, thats your opinion and definetly not a fact. Kobe's a better jumper but I guess that dont matter because Wade somehow actually blocks shots, and alot of time multiple shots, nearly everygame. Kobe's so clutch, yea right.nikolai37Kobe isn't cluch? How old are you? Did you watch in 2000 when Kobe took over game 4 of the NBA Finals in OT and willed the Lakers to a win? Did you see the shot against portland to win the division? What about the 25 point, 11 rebound, 7 assist, 4 block game in game 7 against the Blazers in the WCF in 2000? What about the shot against Phoenix in 06? What about the 29, 7 and 6 he averaged for the 2001 playoffs while his team went 15-1? You are an absolute joke if you think that Wade is a more clutch player than Kobe. He's done it on the biggest stages so many more times than Wade or Lebron COMBINED. Also, Mr Basketball Guru, Wade averaging more blocks doesn't make him a better defender. Being a great defender goes beyond blocks and steals. I think you'd know that if you actually looked at the all defensive teams throughout history. I think Kobe's a solid clutch player, Id rather have him over LeBron in the last seconds of a big game. But listening to a Laker honk you would think he is Jordan when he is not even close to that level. I didnt say Wade's a great defender just based on stats, but he has them as well. Jordan's the best ever and no one is touching that, not Kobe, and I will guarantee not Lebron. There will never be another Jordan. So no, I don't think Kobe is Jordan. I think he's the closest damned thing we've seen since Jordan, though.
[QUOTE="nikolai37"][QUOTE="-Halftime-"] No **** Wade's championship performance was impressive that year. It was the single most impressive EVER if you go by John hollinger's Player Efficency Rating system.. I guess that means Wade is the greatest player of all time:roll: We're not talking about championships, though. We're talking about who's the better player. And that goes to Kobe. He's the best basketball player on the planet right now. And even if we were talking about chaampionships, I could talk about how Kobe was a main fixture on only the fifth team in basketball history to three peat:wink:-Halftime-So your opinion is that Kobe's still somehow a better player than Wade? Yea ok. You've been watching basketball only a few years, I can tell when you said Kobe isn't clutch. Even the most biased Lakers and or kobe hater knows that Kobe is the best clutch player in the game. You're a joke and there's no use arguing with fools. Wade isn't better because he averages more blocks, nor is he better because he had a great finals series in 2006. But you're the all knowing basketball guru who doesn't think 8 defensive teams make someone a good defender, and that Kobe, a sure fire hall of famer and one of the greatest Lakers ever, isn't in Lebron or Wade's stratosphere when he's accomplished more than both of them. Ive been watching basketball for about 15 years, so youre wrong about that and about Kobe being better than Wade, what a night. Youre a Laker/Kobe swinger and there is no use in arguing with you either. I also didnt say Kobe wasnt a great defender. Under your logic Michael Jordan was the best player in the NBA when he played with the Wizards. Kobe's much longer career does not make him the best player in the game. Lebron will probably smash all records because of his age, and that doesnt make him the best player either.
[QUOTE="nikolai37"][QUOTE="-Halftime-"] Kobe isn't cluch? How old are you? Did you watch in 2000 when Kobe took over game 4 of the NBA Finals in OT and willed the Lakers to a win? Did you see the shot against portland to win the division? What about the 25 point, 11 rebound, 7 assist, 4 block game in game 7 against the Blazers in the WCF in 2000? What about the shot against Phoenix in 06? What about the 29, 7 and 6 he averaged for the 2001 playoffs while his team went 15-1? You are an absolute joke if you think that Wade is a more clutch player than Kobe. He's done it on the biggest stages so many more times than Wade or Lebron COMBINED. Also, Mr Basketball Guru, Wade averaging more blocks doesn't make him a better defender. Being a great defender goes beyond blocks and steals. I think you'd know that if you actually looked at the all defensive teams throughout history.-Halftime-I think Kobe's a solid clutch player, Id rather have him over LeBron in the last seconds of a big game. But listening to a Laker honk you would think he is Jordan when he is not even close to that level. I didnt say Wade's a great defender just based on stats, but he has them as well. Jordan's the best ever and no one is touching that, not Kobe, and I will guarantee not Lebron. There will never be another Jordan. So no, I don't think Kobe is Jordan. I think he's the closest damned thing we've seen since Jordan, though. Atleast we agree on something.
[QUOTE="-Halftime-"][QUOTE="nikolai37"] So your opinion is that Kobe's still somehow a better player than Wade? Yea ok.nikolai37You've been watching basketball only a few years, I can tell when you said Kobe isn't clutch. Even the most biased Lakers and or kobe hater knows that Kobe is the best clutch player in the game. You're a joke and there's no use arguing with fools. Wade isn't better because he averages more blocks, nor is he better because he had a great finals series in 2006. But you're the all knowing basketball guru who doesn't think 8 defensive teams make someone a good defender, and that Kobe, a sure fire hall of famer and one of the greatest Lakers ever, isn't in Lebron or Wade's stratosphere when he's accomplished more than both of them. Ive been watching basketball for about 15 years, so youre wrong about that and about Kobe being better than Wade, what a night. Youre a Laker/Kobe swinger and there is no use in arguing with you either. I also didnt say Kobe wasnt a great defender. Under your logic Michael Jordan was the best player in the NBA when he played with the Wizards. Kobe's much longer career does not make him the best player in the game. Lebron will probably smash all records because of his age, and that doesnt make him the best player either. All you say is that I'm bias, but I can say the same to you. I can call you a Laker hater, like you've called me a Lakers lover, but the thing is, that's a cop out when you're getting destroyed in an argument so I won't do it. You've brought up nothing to show me how Wade is a better player than Kobe, and I've brought up multiple things that Kobe has done that makes him better. I could understand your Wizards/MJ argument if Kobe's skills were declining, as MJ's were when he played for the Wizards, but ummm, Kobe is just as impressive right now as he was 2 years ago, more impressive actually when you consider how much more well rounded he has become. The MJ/Wizards thing holds no weight. MJ wasn't the best when he played for the Wizards, far from it, actually, but Kobe is still at the top of his game and an MVP candidate. I believe Kobe and Tim Duncan are the two greatest basketball players walking the earth today. I'm not so quick to give the crown to youngsters like everyone else is nowadays. One day, LeBron will be better player than Kobe, I believe. He's not now, though, and that's what we're arguing. I could care less what they do in the future, because we're talking about now.
[QUOTE="nikolai37"][QUOTE="-Halftime-"] You've been watching basketball only a few years, I can tell when you said Kobe isn't clutch. Even the most biased Lakers and or kobe hater knows that Kobe is the best clutch player in the game. You're a joke and there's no use arguing with fools. Wade isn't better because he averages more blocks, nor is he better because he had a great finals series in 2006. But you're the all knowing basketball guru who doesn't think 8 defensive teams make someone a good defender, and that Kobe, a sure fire hall of famer and one of the greatest Lakers ever, isn't in Lebron or Wade's stratosphere when he's accomplished more than both of them.-Halftime-Ive been watching basketball for about 15 years, so youre wrong about that and about Kobe being better than Wade, what a night. Youre a Laker/Kobe swinger and there is no use in arguing with you either. I also didnt say Kobe wasnt a great defender. Under your logic Michael Jordan was the best player in the NBA when he played with the Wizards. Kobe's much longer career does not make him the best player in the game. Lebron will probably smash all records because of his age, and that doesnt make him the best player either. All you say is that I'm bias, but I can say the same to you. I can call you a Laker hater, like you've called me a Lakers lover, but the thing is, that's a cop out when you're getting destroyed in an argument so I won't do it. You've brought up nothing to show me how Wade is a better player than Kobe, and I've brought up multiple things that Kobe has done that makes him better. I could understand your Wizards/MJ argument if Kobe's skills were declining, as MJ's were when he played for the Wizards, but ummm, Kobe is just as impressive right now as he was 2 years ago, more impressive actually when you consider how much more well rounded he has become. The MJ/Wizards thing holds no weight. MJ wasn't the best when he played for the Wizards, far from it, actually, but Kobe is still at the top of his game and an MVP candidate. I believe Kobe and Tim Duncan are the two greatest basketball players walking the earth today. I'm not so quick to give the crown to youngsters like everyone else is nowadays. One day, LeBron will be better player than Kobe, I believe. He's not now, though, and that's what we're arguing. I could care less what they do in the future, because we're talking about now. Calling somebody a fool is also a cop out of an argument, so maybe youre getting destroyed. I was just pointing out that Kobe's all defensive team's really mean nothing because Jordan had 6 finals MVP's probably 10 or more all defensive teams and tons of other accolades but he still wasnt the best player in the game when he was a Wizard. I agree Kobe's at the top of his game, but I think Wade is as well and Wade tops Kobe. Its just supposed to just be accepted that Kobe is somehow the best but Im not going with that because he's really not. It has nothing to do with being a Laker hater, I dont even dislike the lakers, but I do find it unfair to other athletes that athletes for LA or NY and maybe Boston teams are many times put on a pedestal simply because of who they play for. You could care less about the future and I could care less about the past. When I say that Wade would easily be widely accepted as the best player in the game and the hands down MVP if he played for the Lakers, I really do believe that. I could only imagine if Wade won a championship for the Lakers in the same way he did for the Heat what would be said about him.
At this exact moment, Wade is just on another planet right now. He is currently the best player in the game and would be the MVP no doubt if his team was a bit better. If the Heat can somehow get on a roll and win 50 games (very, very doubtful) then I think Wade will win the MVP award.
Overall though, I think Kobe is the best player in the game followed by Lebron. It just so happens Wade is playing out of his mind right now, so he is currently better than both of them.
For what it's worth Rick Bucher on ESPN today said he would still give the MVP to Kobe 1st, Lebron 2nd, T. Duncan 3rd and Wade 4th. He gave Wade credit for playing great this season but said he has not played as well against the better teams and used the recent loss to Cleveland as an example. He said he would give the MVP to Kobe because his team has one of the best records and Kobe has led the Lakers to victories over other elite teams (Cleveland, Boston...) Just his opinion.
It's not worth much in my book. Other than Bill Plashcie (sp) i don't know if there is another writer for ESPN that is more west coast bias than ric bucher. This guy doesn't think there is basketball outside the state of California. I got no problem with another writer saying that, but not him. That's like Bob Ryan saying Kevin Garnett should have been MVP last yr. Sure he had a legit case, but a writer from Massachusets won't have the same objectivity as others. But hey, it's all a matter of opinion anyway so whatever worksFor what it's worth Rick Bucher on ESPN today said he would still give the MVP to Kobe 1st, Lebron 2nd, T. Duncan 3rd and Wade 4th. He gave Wade credit for playing great this season but said he has not played as well against the better teams and used the recent loss to Cleveland as an example. He said he would give the MVP to Kobe because his team has one of the best records and Kobe has led the Lakers to victories over other elite teams (Cleveland, Boston...) Just his opinion.
mont13
"It's not worth much in my book..."
I knew that was coming, that's why I started my post like that. "Pro" analyst's/writerssay things all the time that I disagree with and find ridiculous at times. So I knew someone would find Bucher's comments of little value. I "try" to look at what is said and judge it for its truthfulness or lack thereof, as opposed to who made the statement. But in this case it's just "opinion", biased though it may be.
Steven A Smith says he believes it is between James and Wade and Kobe a distant third, Skip Bayless thinks Wades #1. A sportswriter for MSNBC said Wades the most valuable player on the planet, also pointing out how he was the best player on the floor during the Olympics as well, so whats your point? I heard Bucher, and he actually sounded stupid. Wade outplayed James in their teams last meeting but the cavs won, because the Cavs have a much better team, the Heat also split games with the Lakers in games where Wade played extremely well. His basis for MVP is giving it to the best player on the best team, so Kobe gets it even though his numbers, and really his game, are not even in the same stratosphere of Wades or LeBrons.For what it's worth Rick Bucher on ESPN today said he would still give the MVP to Kobe 1st, Lebron 2nd, T. Duncan 3rd and Wade 4th. He gave Wade credit for playing great this season but said he has not played as well against the better teams and used the recent loss to Cleveland as an example. He said he would give the MVP to Kobe because his team has one of the best records and Kobe has led the Lakers to victories over other elite teams (Cleveland, Boston...) Just his opinion.
mont13
Edit: Looking at the games and box scores, the Heat split wins with the Lakers and went 1-3 against the Cavs, so I dont know if Bucher has some weird memory thing where he is thinking back to last season and the heat not having wins over big teams. Wade also easily outplayed Kobe in both of those games while leBron and Wade both put up big numbers against each other. And if you want to talk about Wade getting better numbersbecause he's on a bad team you also need to recognize the double and even triple team's he faces every game. Wades crime is playing for the Heat and not having the massive hype that LeBron comes with and any great player for the Lakers gets.
Lebron>kobe>wade=cp3. These four are in a class of their ownsilky_smooth8I pretty much agree, the big three are at the top and Paul should be right there with them. I just think that Wade and Lebron are the two best all-around players in the game, along with being terrific scorers, they fill the entire statsheet up with gaudy numbers. I also think Durant has the potential to be a top 5 player in the game next season.
"It's not worth much in my book..."
I knew that was coming, that's why I started my post like that. "Pro" analyst's/writerssay things all the time that I disagree with and find ridiculous at times. So I knew someone would find Bucher's comments of little value. I "try" to look at what is said and judge it for its truthfulness or lack thereof, as opposed to who made the statement. But in this case it's just "opinion", biased though it may be.
Yea, the sportswriters are really glorified fans. Anytime you have to use the word "favorite" to ask a sportswriter an opinion, such as "Who's your favorite to win MVP?" there will be a high chance it will come out biased.Please Log In to post.
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