Kobe/Lebron/Wade

LeBron three straight games with a triple-double, making a push for the M.V.P.Master_Live

nik...,

You have a funny way of mis-quoting me, youv'e done it several times. Again, I never said "stats don't matter". I challenge you to show where I did. I actually said "stats tell a story but not the whole story, and have to be properly interpreted and taken into context". (sigh):(

"monster numbers", "clutch ability", "finals appearance".....yeah, I'd say Kobe could do that too. I'm sorry if you take giving another player props as a slight against Wade, but can't help you there. I love Wade's game and think he's having a better season than my guy, but some how that's not enough for you, interesting :roll:

All else you said about Wade, that he's arguably this and that.....I have no problem with. I'm very reasonable person, but man, you are pushing it.

My whole position with this MVP thing, which was reinterated by C. Barkley and Kenny Smith last night is that inspite of what Wade is doing the NBA should'nt change what seems to be the rule (giving it to a great player on a top team). Webber also agreed with me and said they need to define clearly what the criteria is for MVP.Once again:cry:,under my definition Wade, Lebron or Paul would get it. (and I think Paul is being more over looked than Wade)

mont13

A lot of players and media said Steve Nash should have won both his MVP trophy's, and you dont believe Nash should have won, or now it seems you have changed your mind and believe Nash should have won them, right? Or most likely you pick and choose which times that endorsements should count. If Kobe beat out the top 3 players who have had a better season than him it would be just as bad as when Nash won it over Kobe.

Im sure if you asked every NBA player a lot would pick Wade or LeBron and maybe some even some Paul for MVP. Same with the media, such aslast night Scotty Ferrall, whos a Kobe fan, said Wade should win, Kobe's numbers dont compare. Really though, who cares about endorsements, right? Oh wait nevermind, it does make a difference to you as long as its Kobe they endorse. :roll:

There are three better and more complete players than Kobe right now who deserve MVP more. And once again you say you could see Wade getting it and you would agree, and again right afterwardspoint out anything you can think of, now player endorsements, to discredit him and bring him down to kobe's level. Kobe's not as good of an all around player as the top 3. And two of them can score just like Kobe while at the same time having way bigger numbers everywhere else at the same time. The only advantage I would give Kobe over Paul and James is he's more proven under pressure. I also believe that Wade, James, and Paul all do much more and are all much more important to their teams than Kobe is. If youre going on which team is the best, I would agree its the Lakers, I think they are the best team, but they dont have the best basketball player, if you want to hand them an MVP trophy give it to the whole team.Youre proving exactlywhy Ive always said Kobe is one of the best players in the world yet somehow one of the most overrated players in the world. Everything he hasnt done or cant do, he has somehow done without actually doing it to his fanboys.

[QUOTE="Master_Live"]LeBron three straight games with a triple-double, making a push for the M.V.P.andyboiii

Nikolai: Seriously, you should see a doctor. You have a big time caes of "putting words in other peoples mouth's " disease! I just showed some instances of you doing that, your response is to do it AGAIN!!????

Show me where I have endorsed Kobe as MVP or have agreed with anothers endorsement of him, please! On the contrary I have Kobe 3rd on the list, and now, with a closer look at CP3, maybe 4th!

I'm getting kinda tired of interpreting clearly typed opinions for you. But I'll indulge you one more time. I said those guys agreed with my position that the league shouldn't change what seems to be the MVP criteria for the last few years just to give it to Wade (unless as I've said before, they take from Nash and give to Kobe). My problem is with the league, NOT WADE!!!! HELLOOOOO!???? Again, Webber agreed with me that the MVP criteria should be clearly defined. I don't care if Kobe gets it, actually think he shouldn't, actually think he doesn't care either, I'm not endorsing Kobe for MVP, ....but if the league is to be consistent Wade shouldn't get it either, but if he does I'd behappy for him,maybe from here on out they can defineit as "best player" or "player having the best season"...etc.

You accuse me of being a "fanboy" when YOU'RE the one who wants the NBA to break from traditon the last few years and give your guy an MVP award. YOU want the league to change the rules in favor ofWade!!! I'm saying my guy shouldn't get,but you call me the fanboy !!???? wow!

Question: Do you believe the NBA should be consistentin how the MVP award is givenconcerning the criteria for it? yes or no.

Ill take Kobe, with Wade in Lebron tied if talking about about skill, although i must admit to a certain bias being from miami ( i have a signed photo with wade, and Zo's book "resilience" signed by Zo)

As for why i put kobe in #1 for skill, well he is a man with many accolades. He is a better shooter then his two peers with a jump shot that Reggie Miller described as "scary" (i think it was during the LaL vs Cavs game). Kobe has been described as being "unstoppable" various times by notables like Mike D Antoni. We also have Kobe's feats to augment this argument such as the 81 point game, and the 40+ point streak.Lets not forget that John Salley who played with both Micheal Jordan and Kobe Bryant claimed that Kobe's ball handling was better then Mikes which whether you believe Salley or not means Kobe must have good handling skills if Salley would make such a claim. As for his passing this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01acf-rpbSA shows that kobe can be a great passer,although yes compared to his peers his assist stats are lower this is due to the fact that in the Lakers's offense no one ever really gets a great many assist (look at Derek Fisher and Steve Kerr two points that run/ran this offense both didn't average too many assist.) where as his peers have offenses ran through them.His defense and especially on-ball defensive skills are considerable, being one of the reasons he has made defensive teams on eight occasions.

As for MVP i would chose either Kobe Or Lebron depending on who ends up with the better record. I would give it to Lebron based off of stats but the thing is Lebron hasn't performed so well against good teams so his championship chances look so much more bleaker because of it. The reason i don't put Wade in(who arguably should have won it in 06) is because he is the most valuable player on a team who sadly for the 305 will make it to the second round at most.

In my opinion, its (Wade =Lebron) >Kobe, I am a Wade fan as well as a fan of Kobe, but there is no doubt that Lebron is amazing at the game right now. Maybe not as amazing as Wade statistic wise, but if he wasn't playing the entire team would be dead (which makes me wonder what will happen in the magical year of 2010). Same can be said for Wade, remember when Wade was injured last season? the team finished with a miserable 15-67 record, with Wade becoming healthy, he was amazing in the olympic team, and transferred his skills undoubtedly to the NBA where he is the best statistic wise. Kobe has experience, we know that, but all of you guys are saying "omg remember in 2006 when he had like 5 straight 50 point games and averaged 35 points?" - well that wouldn't matter since that was 3 years ago, and kobe is performing to a lesser extent this year. He is still a fantastic player, but their wins aren't totally credited to him, with his supporting cast. Same with Lebron, his supporting cast would be probably be doing worse, but they would still be playoff contenders. The heat on the other hand would finish worse then where the raptors are now without Wade (as shown from last season). Either one could be MVP (it would actually be amazing if they were all co-MVPs but that wouldn't happen), but as of right now Wade is doing the best, but considering Lebron's age factor they are both equal. Kobe is doing great as well, but his impact on his team isn't as great as Wade or Lebron's impact.

Thats just my opinion, so feel free to disagree.

Im a lifetime pacers fan, so this isnt a biased comment.

Wade is hands down the MVP this year, he has been simply amazing this year. The Heat would barely win 10 gaems if they didnt have Wade this season. He is a beast and deserves MVP hands down imo. Kobe and Lebron are tied for 2nd.

Seriously... take away Wade, Lebron and Kobe from there respected teams and what team suffers the most? hands down the heat! The lakers and Cavs would still be decent teams with out Lebron or Kobe, but The HEat without WADE would be worst team in the L.

Im a lifetime pacers fan, so this isnt a biased comment.

Wade is hands down the MVP this year, he has been simply amazing this year. The Heat would barely win 10 gaems if they didnt have Wade this season. He is a beast and deserves MVP hands down imo. Kobe and Lebron are tied for 2nd.

Seriously... take away Wade, Lebron and Kobe from there respected teams and what team suffers the most? hands down the heat! The lakers and Cavs would still be decent teams with out Lebron or Kobe, but The HEat without WADE would be worst team in the L.

Kobe followed by Lebron then Wade

sixringz said:

"This team was specifically built around Lebron, the other 2 teams aren't structured that way. Lakers roster is constructed to fit the triangle, not built around Kobe, and the Heat are in a rebuilding mode so they sort of have a makeshift roster"

Thank you! Some want to just over look that fact and call it excuse making. The players are in different situations and it is a determining factor in how they each play. Wade's team needs him to do what he's doing, same with Lebron. The Lakers don't need Kobe to do what he did when his team was sad.If he did that it would be bad for this particular team. His shot attempts are down, there have been 10 or 11 games where he hasn't even played in the 4th quarter because they didn't need him to. Of course his stats are down. So I'm not going to dog Kobe and act like his skills have diminishedthis year and Wade and Lebronhave passed him as great players. Kobe is simply doing what he has to for his teamthis season.Isn't that what most ofthe Kobedetractors wanted from him? (And for my buddy, I'm not endorsing Kobe as MVP.)

For those who support Wade, did you speak out this strongly (on principle)for Kobe when he was the leagues best, most versatile player but others got the MVP because their teams had better records?

What about Chris Paul?His stats are arguably better than Wades and his value to his team, arguably, equals Wades.

Some say if Lebron or Kobe get MVP you are actually awarding a player an award only because he has better teammates( I've said it myself). But isn't it also true that if Wade gets the award youare giving it to him because his teammates are of lesser talent, therefore he has to do more, therefore his stats increase making it look like he's the better player. And his team will usually struggle more if he's not playing because his teammates are not that good, experienced or whatever making it look like he's more valuable than another player with better teammates. Either way a player gets an MVP award because of the talent or lack thereof of his teammates.

Can a player actually increase his value to a team while his stats decrease?? In Kobe's case can it be said that he's more valubale to his team if he doesn't try to consistently take over. Just some thought's......

Great game by Wade tonight as well as Lebron yesterday. But after re-thinking this MVP thing I'd have to give it to Lebron also. He's on the better team, with more help yet he's still able to stay close to even with Wade on stats. With both playing the all-round game at the highest levels the MVP should go to the guy who's team has succeeded the most.

Question: How much better than Wade'swould you say Lebron's support cast is? A little better, moderately better or much better? Just asking.

Great game by Wade tonight as well as Lebron yesterday. But after re-thinking this MVP thing I'd have to give it to Lebron also. He's on the better team, with more help yet he's still able to stay close to even with Wade on stats. With both playing the all-round game at the highest levels the MVP should go to the guy who's team has succeeded the most.

Question: How much better than Wade'swould you say Lebron's support cast is? A little better, moderately better or much better? Just asking.

mont13

Great game by Wade tonight as well as Lebron yesterday. But after re-thinking this MVP thing I'd have to give it to Lebron also. He's on the better team, with more help yet he's still able to stay close to even with Wade on stats. With both playing the all-round game at the highest levels the MVP should go to the guy who's team has succeeded the most.

Question: How much better than Wade'swould you say Lebron's support cast is? A little better, moderately better or much better? Just asking.

mont13

I know how good Wade can be, example 2006 playoffs, he has good stats this season, but there is no way if these guys are in the same draft I pick Wade over Lebron or Kobe,dont get me wrong both 3 are world class players, but Kobe just has this crazy killer instinct saying I can score any time I want to and there is nothing anyone can do about it, and Lebron is just a freak of nature, being 6'8-9 with that type of speed and strenght and athelticism, he passes like magic rebounds like a power forward and scores like a guard, sorry D Wade your a hell of a player but no way am I picking you over Bron and Kobe.

I know how good Wade can be, example 2006 playoffs, he has good stats this season, but there is no way if these guys are in the same draft I pick Wade over Lebron or Kobe,dont get me wrong both 3 are world class players, but Kobe just has this crazy killer instinct saying I can score any time I want to and there is nothing anyone can do about it, and Lebron is just a freak of nature, being 6'8-9 with that type of speed and strenght and athelticism, he passes like magic rebounds like a power forward and scores like a guard, sorry D Wade your a hell of a player but no way am I picking you over Bron and Kobe.

deniiiii21

You must have misssed Wade beat the Jazz today in triple overtime, where he dropped 50 points. Ohh yeah lets not forget that the Jazz where the NBAs hottest team and on a winning streak.

Wade doesnt have killer instinct? Youve got to be kidding me man, his game today vs The Jazz was the definition of KILLER INSTINCT.

I never said he didnt have killer instinct, its just not anywhere near Kobe's, even Lebron is not on Kobe's level when the game is on the line.

Thank you! Some want to just over look that fact and call it excuse making. The players are in different situations and it is a determining factor in how they each play. Wade's team needs him to do what he's doing, same with Lebron. The Lakers don't need Kobe to do what he did when his team was sad.If he did that it would be bad for this particular team. His shot attempts are down

mont13

Wrong for the 150th time. Nice try though.

Wade has shot the ball 1,424 times

Lebron has shot the ball 1,307 times

Kobe has shot the ball 1,401 times

His scoring is down but he basically takes the same number of shots as the other top guys. And his other numbers are not low because of him not playing as much, they are that low every season.

I know how good Wade can be, example 2006 playoffs, he has good stats this season, but there is no way if these guys are in the same draft I pick Wade over Lebron or Kobe,dont get me wrong both 3 are world class players, but Kobe just has this crazy killer instinct saying I can score any time I want to and there is nothing anyone can do about it, and Lebron is just a freak of nature, being 6'8-9 with that type of speed and strenght and athelticism, he passes like magic rebounds like a power forward and scores like a guard, sorry D Wade your a hell of a player but no way am I picking you over Bron and Kobe.

deniiiii21

Kobe even being in the MVP discussion this year is a complete joke.

Nikolai: Seriously, you should see a doctor. You have a big time caes of "putting words in other peoples mouth's " disease! I just showed some instances of you doing that, your response is to do it AGAIN!!????

Show me where I have endorsed Kobe as MVP or have agreed with anothers endorsement of him, please! On the contrary I have Kobe 3rd on the list, and now, with a closer look at CP3, maybe 4th!

I'm getting kinda tired of interpreting clearly typed opinions for you. But I'll indulge you one more time. I said those guys agreed with my position that the league shouldn't change what seems to be the MVP criteria for the last few years just to give it to Wade (unless as I've said before, they take from Nash and give to Kobe). My problem is with the league, NOT WADE!!!! HELLOOOOO!???? Again, Webber agreed with me that the MVP criteria should be clearly defined. I don't care if Kobe gets it, actually think he shouldn't, actually think he doesn't care either, I'm not endorsing Kobe for MVP, ....but if the league is to be consistent Wade shouldn't get it either, but if he does I'd behappy for him,maybe from here on out they can defineit as "best player" or "player having the best season"...etc.

You accuse me of being a "fanboy" when YOU'RE the one who wants the NBA to break from traditon the last few years and give your guy an MVP award. YOU want the league to change the rules in favor ofWade!!! I'm saying my guy shouldn't get,but you call me the fanboy !!???? wow!

Question: Do you believe the NBA should be consistentin how the MVP award is givenconcerning the criteria for it? yes or no.

mont13

The point I am making is that if Paul or Wade had the season that Kobe is having, neither would even be mentioned in the MVP discussion. Its quite unfair that kobe is ahead of any of those guys when he has had a much lesser season than those guys.

Its really even harder to pick who should be MVP now than it was 5 days ago. I was favoring LeBron after his big game the other night because of his numbers and his team. But now Imgiving the edgeback to Wade because I really think the Heat would have the worst record in the NBA without him.Its reallya tough choice and probably will change daily.The only easy thing about the MVP discussion is the part about Kobe not being in the discussion.

[QUOTE="mont13"]

Thank you! Some want to just over look that fact and call it excuse making. The players are in different situations and it is a determining factor in how they each play. Wade's team needs him to do what he's doing, same with Lebron. The Lakers don't need Kobe to do what he did when his team was sad.If he did that it would be bad for this particular team. His shot attempts are down

nikolai37

Your figures are some what misleading because you don't include free throw attempts which would make it 2034 for Wade and 1869 for Kobe a 165 attempts difference. Also for the 150th time we told you his assist aren't as high because of his team's offense, as for his rebounding its pretty good for someone who spends alot of time outside of the paint.

[QUOTE="nikolai37"][QUOTE="mont13"]

Thank you! Some want to just over look that fact and call it excuse making. The players are in different situations and it is a determining factor in how they each play. Wade's team needs him to do what he's doing, same with Lebron. The Lakers don't need Kobe to do what he did when his team was sad.If he did that it would be bad for this particular team. His shot attempts are down

-Patriots

Your figures are some what misleading because you don't include free throw attempts which would make it 2034 for Wade and 1869 for Kobe a 165 attempts difference. Also for the 150th time we told you his assist aren't as high because of his team's offense, as for his rebounding its pretty good for someone who spends alot of time outside of the paint.

Also, it's never a good sign when youre such a fanboy you use assumptions for every argument you make for a player. And I'm also sure Paris Hilton would be a great actress if she was only in the right movie.

[QUOTE="-Patriots"]

[QUOTE="nikolai37"] Wrong again for the 150th time! Wade has shot the ball 1,424 times Lebron has shot the ball 1,307 times Kobe has shot the ball 1,401 times Nice try though! And his numbers outside of scoring are low because Kobe's not the all around player the other guys are!nikolai37

Your figures are some what misleading because you don't include free throw attempts which would make it 2034 for Wade and 1869 for Kobe a 165 attempts difference. Also for the 150th time we told you his assist aren't as high because of his team's offense, as for his rebounding its pretty good for someone who spends alot of time outside of the paint.

Also, it's never a good sign when youre such a fanboy you use assumptions for every argument you make for a player. And I'm also sure Paris Hilton would be a great actress if she was only in the right movie.

No dude, look at Phil Jackson's Point Guards (who should have the most assist in their teams)none have ever gotten that many assist despite the fact that they were often a part of the league's greatest offense or one of the league's greater offenses at their respective times. You could look at MJ who use to fill Kobe's role back when Phil was in the Bulls he only got 5 assist but are you gonna tell me he wasn't that good a passer. Sheesh man you act as if you've only watched Kobe play for five games, becauseanyone who watches Kobe knows it isn't rare for him to dish out 6 or more assist.

First of all Kobe's shot attempts are down, so I'm not wrong.I never made any conclusion about Kobe's fga's compared toWade's or Lebron's because of it. My point was to use Kobe's lower fga's as one example of the Lakers not needing him to shoot as much as in season's past. But you are soooo sensitive in favor of Wade that you read everything as a slight against him.......what's up with that, seriously??? This topic is entitled Kobe/Lebron/Wade, news flash: Kobe's name will be mentioned here, there will be some who, for whatever reason, (right or wrong) favor Kobe over Wade, get over it.

Kobe is in his 13th season. He's played "starters" minutes 11 of those season's. Of those 11 seasons this is his lowest minutes per game average, 36.3mpg. His rebound average is his 2nd lowest in those 11 years, his assist average is his 2nd lowest in those 11 years. His steals average ties his lowest in those 11 years. Kobe's turn overs ties his lowest in those 11 years. Blocks are about the same. The season is not over yet but I think it's fair to say that Kobe's numbers are "low", as you say, because hIs minutes are lower.

Actually his numbers are not "low" compared to other guys playing his position. I have'nt checked lately but a couple of months ago, Kobe was 2nd( or 3rd)in assists for 2 guards, behind......Wade( is he really a 2 guard?). I would bet that kobe is near the top in most catagories for his position.

Kobe is an all-round player, if you believe he's not up to Wades or Lebrons status, whatever, but as I and others have tried to tell you, the system has a lot to do with a players stats. Assists for example. You say "Kobe's passing numbers are lower because he's not the passer that the other guys are"......

In 3 years with Indiana Stephen Jackson averaged 2.7 assists, in 3 years with Golden State he averages 5.0 assists an he's averaging 6.5 this year. Now is he really that good of an assist man, to be virtually 1 below Wade and Lebron this year?? Or is it the system he's in!?? Take your time.

Another example: In Steve Nash's last 4 years in Dallas he averaged 7.8 assists, In his first 4 years in Phoenix (even more of a run/gun team) he averaged 11.2 assists. This year, his 5th in Phoenix, they change coaches and systems and slow the game down/concentrate more on D, Nash assists drop below double figures again. Why is that, my man, could it be THE SYSTEM!!!!!???

Now answer my question please, that you conveniently passed over...Do you believe the MVP criteria should be consistent year to year?? yes or no

Let's rate them like the games do:

1. Kobe -99

2. Lebron -98

3. Wade -98

Kobe>Wade>Lebron

Wade before Lebron only because he has a much more consistant Jumper, everything else is completely equal.

Only going on what I have read so far on the 1st page, I will have to agree and disagree with alot. Yes Wade, Lebron have been amazing this year and Yes Kobe is not going to win the MVP award, I still feel this year's MVP is rightfully his even though Lebron will walk away with it. I recently read this article that basically says even if Kobe wins the next 3 MVPs and 0 Titles he will go down as the most overrated player in NBA history then goes on to say if Kobe wins 3 titles and 0 MVPs he will go down in history as better then Jordan. Basically saying the MVP award means nothing. Now thats what the article says so if I find the link I will post it for ya'll to read and I kind of disagree with it. As for the MVP race the arguments everyone makes this year to discredit Kobe is just outrageous. Arguments saying Kobe has a superior supporting cast, to if you take Kobe off his team they will still be atop of the west. Two arguments I hate because as a Laker fan and someone who has watched every laker game this season you can see so many times this season where Kobe's cast has disappeared on him offensively some games and defensively some games, and of course Lakers ain't immune to injuries they have lost Bynum again. So with all that Kobe's cast has been shaky and not as effective as last year.Wade to me is definately the only one out of the three who is carrying his teams to wins, I can't deny that because dude is doing everything but people quickly forgot the Lakers was once a sinking ship with Kobe running this show carrying a much terrible squad to victories, at that time media didn't praise Kobe for his work they called him selfish and thought he should trust his terrible teammates more so all Kobe's individual work and stats was not rewarded as he hardly made the MVP ballot. Lebron and Wade also don't work in a system Kobe has to, Lakers run a triangle offense,in that offense the lakers post alot and how teams plan to defend the post dictates who's open, with three passes Lakers should find the open man,the triangle offense has no PG running the show and any of the 5 starters can start the play and or post depending on who they play. Wade and Lebron control thier offense and have their offense ran through them and only late in games is the offense ran through Kobe or if the Lakers are down and need a score so stat wise Kobe ain't gonna put up what Lebron and Wade put up every night. I will also agree that Kobe doesn't have to do much for the Lakers to win once his teammates decide they want to play. On paper Yes Kobe has the best known named players but on the court watching them play they don't match the paper at all and I yell all the damn time why because I play basketball, I know basketball and I live basketball so every game I'm yelling do this or do that and the Lakers cast is just terrible, defensively they can't protect the paint for nothing Gasol is like a 7 ft twig, he blocks nothing, they don't have that I will kill you toughness and on offense they all do not attack the paint, they play like weaklings. To me it's sad to watch knowing how hard Kobe plays, how much he wants to crush every opponent but his teammates just don't have that killer drive Kobe has. So if you took Kobe off his team I think they would get pounded in the West just imagine the Portland game but without Kobe, thats how the Lakers would look out West so not on top as everyone likes to project. They say put Kobe on Lebron's team and Lebron on Kobe's team and Lakers would have more win. REALLY lets think about the Triangle offense the Lakers run Lebron will have to learn how to post something he rarely does in Cleveland then out of that post we all see Kobe with the turn around jumper, pull up jumper etc. Lebron will have get a consistant jumper which he doesn't have yet so I see no major difference where Lebron on the Lakers brings them more wins and the same for Kobe on the Cavs, the records will be the same as it is today.The main thing I feel with the MVP race is that everything Lebron and Wade are doing Kobe has done from carrying a team to filling the stat sheet to being a defensive stopper and offensively gifted but Kobe only has one MVP award to show for it. That to me is a KICK in the face they are saying Steve Nash is more valuable then Kobe Bryant. The years Steve Nash won his team was the best then next year had one of the best records after bad records so that's why Nash won so for Kobe last year his team was second best and now maybe will be the best record so why doesn't Kobe get that recognition? I feel whoever comes away with that overall record should go home with the MVP but I have a feeling it ain't gonna work that way so I don't stress about it any more to make my points and I just hope the Lakers walk away this year as Champs.

Kobe>Wade>Lebron

Wade before Lebron only because he has a much more consistant Jumper, everything else is completely equal.

Sagitariusbri86

Here's that link I was refering to if anyone wanted to take a look at it.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/basketball/nba/la-sp-heisler-lebron11-2009mar11,0,7478151.column?page=1

It always amazing how Kobe's career and/or skills are disrespected/under appreciated by so many. A a guy at work asked me who I was picking in the NCAA tournament this year. When I told him I'm more of pro ball fan, he said oh that's right you're a Kobe fan. I said yeah, Kobe's a great all round player(fact) and will go down as, at least, the 2nd greatest 2 guard to play the game (possible exception- Jerry West). He then said with a smart look on his face..."Man you love Kobe". I said no, you hate Kobe, what I said is pretty much true. I asked him to name a 2 guard that would put Kobe 3rd instead of 2nd, he couldn't, and said l'll have to think about that. He then said Pistol Pete Maravich(who I love as a ball player)! but I pointed out that Kobe is the better all-round player. With all that Kobe has done, with all the skills Kobe has he rates lower than Pistol Pete in this guys mind.

He admitted he hates Kobe and listed the usual reasons why, ...look what he did to the Lakers (the break-up), look at what he did to Shaq(ratted him out during the rape case)...bla, bla ,bla...... nothing about his game. I don't excuse anything Kobe has done....or MJ, or Magic or possibly Wade...etc off the court, but it's all about basketballfor me not the players personal failures, but some just can't separate it when it comes to Kobe.

It always amazing how Kobe's career and/or skills are disrespected/under appreciated by so many. A a guy at work asked me who I was picking in the NCAA tournament this year. When I told him I'm more of pro ball fan, he said oh that's right you're a Kobe fan. I said yeah, Kobe's a great all round player(fact) and will go down as, at least, the 2nd greatest 2 guard to play the game (possible exception- Jerry West). He then said with a smart look on his face..."Man you love Kobe". I said no, you hate Kobe, what I said is pretty much true. I asked him to name a 2 guard that would put Kobe 3rd instead of 2nd, he couldn't, and said l'll have to think about that. He then said Pistol Pete Maravich(who I love as a ball player)! but I pointed out that Kobe is the better all-round player. With all that Kobe has done, with all the skills Kobe has he rates lower than Pistol Pete in this guys mind.

He admitted he hates Kobe and listed the usual reasons why, ...look what he did to the Lakers (the break-up), look at what he did to Shaq(ratted him out during the rape case)...bla, bla ,bla...... nothing about his game. I don't excuse anything Kobe has done....or MJ, or Magic or possibly Wade...etc off the court, but it's all about basketballfor me not the players personal failures, but some just can't separate it when it comes to Kobe.

mont13

@mont13

I've came across alot of people like that also and it always comes down to Kobe's personality but me I don't give a hoot because I don't know the guy and people that hate Kobe don't personally know him either so you can't judge what you don't know. All I go by is the guys talent on the court and you just can't deny Kobe is gifted and all I ask haters to do is atleast give Kobe some credit for what he does bring to the court.

When they bring up Kobe's off court issues concerning character I ask "do you also dislike MJ because he cheated on his wife and payed a woman to keep quiet about it? Do also dislike Magic because he cheated on his wife? What about Barkely and his off court issues and a whole slew of others..???" Let's stick to B'ball or at least be fair about your judgements...better not to judge.

Lebron will win it, why?

His 3pt percentage is up

His jump shot/shooting percentage is up

His foul line shot is up

His defense has improved

and his team is making a serious push at the championship

Above all, as I read somewhere. "He is the most unselfish 30pt player in the league". His ability to get his teammates involved while putting the numebrs up that he does is uncanny.

No offense to Kobe or Wade, but it's his to lose this year.

As I said you can't conclude much from 1 game, but the sad Miami Heat support cast didn't do too bad without D Wade against the depleted Celtics. Are Wade's role players really that bad??

As I said you can't conclude much from 1 game, but the sad Miami Heat support cast didn't do too bad without D Wade against the depleted Celtics. Are Wade's role players really that bad??

mont13

I didn't think they were that bad either.

Another great game by Wade, against Detroit, where he pretty much did it all to get the win, on the road. But if the league is going to be consistent he won't be awarded an MVP trophy for his efforts this season(Wade or CP3). Not cool in my opinion.

But then again, Lebron is putting up impressive numbers also with a betetr record, so if he gets MVP, no complaint here.

Yep, that's what I was saying in a previous post. Kobe in his 13th season is still one of the best. It remains to be seen if Lebron and Wade will be then.

It's funny how 7 or 8 years ago this conversation would be between: T-Mac, V. Carter and Kobe Bryant still.Master_Live

[QUOTE="Master_Live"]It's funny how 7 or 8 years ago this conversation would be between: T-Mac, V. Carter and Kobe Bryant still.sixringz1

[QUOTE="sixringz1"][QUOTE="Master_Live"]It's funny how 7 or 8 years ago this conversation would be between: T-Mac, V. Carter and Kobe Bryant still.Master_Live

[QUOTE="Master_Live"][QUOTE="sixringz1"] vince carter has never even cracked the top 5 in MVP voting and mcgrady has only cracked the top 5 once in his career. This conversation NEVER included those 2 names. Carter is a great dunker and that's how he became popular, and McGrady had a couple really good years in Orlando, but at no point was he ever on the same level as Kobe (and i'm not even a kobe fan).sixringz1

Another great game by Wade, against Detroit, where he pretty much did it all to get the win, on the road. But if the league is going to be consistent he won't be awarded an MVP trophy for his efforts this season(Wade or CP3). Not cool in my opinion.

But then again, Lebron is putting up impressive numbers also with a betetr record, so if he gets MVP, no complaint here.

mont13

Man that Detroit game made me sick to my stomach. How can one player get so many calls in his favor? If this is the usual treatment he gets then I say his numbers are severely skewed. I'm no LB fan but at least they call fouls on him. By the Vangundy, please remover your lips from said players buttocks.

[QUOTE="mont13"]

Another great game by Wade, against Detroit, where he pretty much did it all to get the win, on the road. But if the league is going to be consistent he won't be awarded an MVP trophy for his efforts this season(Wade or CP3). Not cool in my opinion.

But then again, Lebron is putting up impressive numbers also with a betetr record, so if he gets MVP, no complaint here.

DaBrainz

Man that Detroit game made me sick to my stomach. How can one player get so many calls in his favor? If this is the usual treatment he gets then I say his numbers are severely skewed. I'm no LB fan but at least they call fouls on him. By the Vangundy, please remover your lips from said players buttocks.

Some quotes on Wade

"He gets all the calls, that's what makes him special.'' - Gerald Wallace

"It's unbelievable what he gets away with.'' - Bob Hill

"I can't believe he has the audacity to complain to the refs, he should be grateful for what they've done for him in his career. He is what he is today because of them." - P.J. Brown

"He travels on that spin move. He picks up that pivot foot... everybody knows it. Dwayne Wade can cover so much ground when he makes that move. As you know, he can go 20 feet with that spin move and get to the basket." - Phil Jackson

"You can't do nothing to D-Wade," Wallace said. "If you say boogety-boogety-boo to him, that's a foul." - Rasheed Wallace


"You are an amazing player Dwayne. I love watching you shoot free throws." - Mark Cuban

Interviewer: "Was it a little ridiculous how Dwyane Wade
got all the calls?"

Tracy McGrady: "Yeah, yeah it really was. I'll tell you man, it
seems if you were watching that game, seemed like it was
rigged. Seriously. I know the NBA.... (cut off by
interviewer)."

Interviewer: "You just got fined (sarcastically)."

Tracy McGrady: "I don't care. So what? But yeah it seemed like it
was rigged. With all the calls he was getting. Jesus. Did
you hear me? We are talking about the NBA Finals, I wish
I could say I was just kidding, and that's what it seemed
like."

So wade does get some gift whistles but lets remember that so did MJ. Also Wade averages 9 FTA per game which isn't too bad considering he is the top scorer.