$1000, notebook or PS4 + X1?

@Krelian-co said:

@GoldenElementXL said:

@Krelian-co: look at the bottom right hand corner of my benchmark. Game - Debate is the source.

You can keep telling me what your friend gets, I can tell you what I get. "Everything max except advanced settings" sure sounds like a good time.

Keep up the name calling.

"Everything max except advanced settings" sure sounds like a good time."

oh no it is a horrible time, unplayable even, i don't even know how can he stand playing like that, rofl what a fuking idiot, and your "recommendation" is to get 900p 30 fps medium settings machines. Seriously, people can only know you are stupid if you keep letting them know.

Keep up the ignorance spreading.

1 - I said medium/High meaning a mix of medium and high.
2 - I'm not the one that was throwing around the word "max" and then switching to "max except advanced settings." I was just pointing out the flip flopping.


Lets run Witcher 3 and GTA V benchmarks on our machines and post the results here and see what we get. You seem to think you know what you're talking about so this should be fun. I can even run a few different configurations if you want.

@GoldenElementXL said:

@Krelian-co said:

@GoldenElementXL said:

@Krelian-co: look at the bottom right hand corner of my benchmark. Game - Debate is the source.

You can keep telling me what your friend gets, I can tell you what I get. "Everything max except advanced settings" sure sounds like a good time.

Keep up the name calling.

"Everything max except advanced settings" sure sounds like a good time."

oh no it is a horrible time, unplayable even, i don't even know how can he stand playing like that, rofl what a fuking idiot, and your "recommendation" is to get 900p 30 fps medium settings machines. Seriously, people can only know you are stupid if you keep letting them know.

Keep up the ignorance spreading.

1 - I said medium/High meaning a mix of medium and high.

2 - I'm not the one that was throwing around the word "max" and then switching to "max except advanced settings." I was just pointing out the flip flopping.

Lets run Witcher 3 and GTA V benchmarks on our machines and post the results here and see what we get. You seem to think you know what you're talking about so this should be fun. I can even run a few different configurations if you want.

aw the ignorant kid got offended, hahaha keep spreading more bullshit

guru3d > you

let me repeat that, slow and clear so your tiny single celled brain get that

guru3d > you

i think guru3d know more about hardware than some random ignorant kid on a forum.

"Everything max except advanced settings" sure sounds like a good time."

oh no it is a horrible time, unplayable even, i don't even know how can he stand playing like that, rofl what a fuking idiot, and your "recommendation" is to get 900p 30 fps medium settings machines. Seriously, people can only know you are stupid if you keep letting them know.

@GoldenElementXL I said close to max settings. I fully know it will not run GTA V and Witcher 3 at max settings. Hence why I said you need to drop 2-3 settings to have your 60fps. You also seem pretty damn ignorant of PC gaming. I'm game for posting our results. Either way you're still completely wrong. A 1,000$ PC will mix you High/Max and 60fps. Not Medium/High and 30fps.

Krelian gets owned by Golden Element and Lulu, this is fantastic.

@Juub1990: @Krelian-co:

Juub, I can admit the "30fps" portion of my post was exaggerated. But I stand by saying that a $1,000 PC will have to make sacrifices to run at 60.

So lets do this. We can post videos of each of us playing GTA V and The Witcher 3 with our PC's. I can see what Juub is running but I don't know Krelians setup. Care to share? Juub and I can each to a single GPU and a SLI run. What video capture software do you guys want to use? Is fraps OK for showing framerates? We will obviously have to decide on "console settings."

Golden Element getting owned by Krelian, JankarCop, Juub, this is fantastic.

It doesn't take a very expensive computer to beat out consoles in GTAV at ~60fps

Again I'm not understanding your argument. A $1000 easily wrecks consoles.

@Jankarcop: if you can't understand his simple argument that has been plainly explained for people like you, I doubt you'd have the skills to understand who's winning the argument.

It was explained, and it's just flat out stupid.

He's saying buy the 2 worse systems because the considerably better system isn't as good as an EVEN better system. And then he gave his opinion on exclusives, which consoles have been doing horribly in gen8. It was basically dumb.

If portability is the reason you are considering a notebook, just make a small form factor desktop and use a small monitor. "Full size" small cases can get pretty compact but I hear they are becoming more popular now that people like taking their computers to other places.

Personally, I'm planning on building one myself. Solely for the fact a laptop is stupid to upgrade and I want a gaming PC I can take in the truck with me on the road.

Eh, kinda. I answered TC's question and it seems I pissed off some hermits along the way. I guess they thought I was some console loving fakeboy until I proved them wrong.

Graphics and performance do matter but not at the cost of playing games. I would choose the 2 consoles vs a $1,000 PC because the games I would get to play outweigh the performance gains of that $1,000 PC. I could not play Madden, NHL, UFC, Bloodborne, Uncharted, TLOU, Forza, MLB The Show or many other titles if I chose that PC. I would gladly take those titles, plus console versions of multiplats running medium settings and 30 fps over the $1,000 PC. That's based on my preference of playing those titles. Now raise that spending limit to $3,000 and the choice is tougher. That would get me 1440p, 60 fps+ with max settings. And not the "max except advanced settings" that was brought up in this thread. Playing PC multiplats that way, (which I do) makes it tough to accept multiplats the way they run on the consoles. Could I give up Madden and Bloodborne for the graphics whore versions of GTA or Metro? I'm not so sure. But not limiting the PC to $1,000 makes things more interesting.

Maybe it's hard for some to understand my viewpoint because it isn't aligned with a fanboy faction.

Well now I get what you are saying.

It's merely going to boil down to what games he wants to play.

@Krelian-co said:

@GoldenElementXL said:

So not Max then?

And a 44 fps average by a R9 290 doesn't really come close to 60.

Yeah keep posting bullshit images with no source, id rather believe guru3d, a well known site than some no source image, in fact a friend has a single 290 and the game runs perfectly at 60 fps and every thing ultra except for advanced options. Keep spreading ignorance my dear friend, you have been served yet again. 1080p, ultra/high and 60 fps not enough so you recommend him to get 900p medium 30 fps machines, nice logic.

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/gta_v_pc_graphics_performance_review,5.html

Your post REALLY bugs me and I really want to drive a few things home here.

You claim your friend has a single 290 and runs the game perfectly at 60 fps. You post a benchmark that shows the 290 averaging 77 frames which supports your claim but lets dig a little deeper.

1 - Settings that guru3D used in that bench. They turned down shader quality, shadow quality, water quality, particle quality, grass quality, soft shadows, AA, turned off reflection msaa and ALL advanced graphics options were turned all the way down. There were far more compromises made than you are admitting in your "ultra/high 60 fps" claim. In fact only 3 of the 21 options they show are "maxed."

2 - The test rig. Guru3D is using a 5960X at 4.4GHz, DDR4 RAM. I know you will claim, as Juub did, that the CPU used does not effect the results because the game is not CPU heavy. I don't think it is necessarily a huge factor, but I upgraded from a 3770K to a 5960X and saw gains using the same GPU ( a GTX 690) It was just a few frames in some games but the difference was visible. Don't believe me? Here is what Guru3D has to say about that. You know, your source.

"Our test rig was assembled this way (heavy setup) to prevent and remove CPU bottlenecks that could influence high-end GPU scores. Especially in resolutions up-to 1080P with high performance graphics cards, CPU limitation quickly kicks in."
http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/gta_v_pc_graphics_performance_review,3.html

Their words not mine. Although I would bet anything from i5 3470 and up would be within 5 or 6 frames of one another (I only really deal with intel)


So your benchmark using a PC well over $1,000 proves nothing. Well I guess it proves you get some slightly better graphical settings and double the framerate at well over double the cost. And TC would miss out on so many games.

Bingo. I did let some folks get me a little off topic so my point may have been lost along the way.

and that way you will miss out even more PC exclusives, and the opportunity to play every multiplat with better graphics and performance. + mods

You're wrong. I built the current PC that I have I bought the Alienware X51 over 2 years ago out of hype. No need for fucking insults either. As far as Dells reliability is concerned it's all over the Internet Google any Dell PC and the horror stories are right there! But deny it all you want if it makes you feel better about your purchase. Btw, you said yourself that you don't trust Alienware isn't that hypocritical?

@GoldenElementXL Yes, we can use fraps but I'm pretty sure the video recording tool is capped at 60fps for one and absolutely slaughters fps as well. Second, I just tested GTA V on my rig sporting a single 970(sent back the other), with everything turned to the max except High-resolution shadows and grass(Very High rather than Ultra) and I'm averaging 60-70fps. Of course there is no MSAA as this settings brings the most ridiculous setups to their knees for little visual difference at 1080p and above. I also would be quite surprised a 3770K would be a bottleneck in any kind of games except the ones making use of only on or two cores(Assassin's Creed 3 and IV). An i7 and an i5 of the same generation should perform virtually identically as most games except a select few do not use HT. Your 3770K might have had too low of a clock speed for very CPU-intensive games(Crysis 3) but across the board it should be plenty.

A 5960X will not perform any better than a 4670K 99% of the time in games. I'm game to post videos but I'm not quite sure what Gamespot takes and doesn't take as video formats.

Edit: There is also always the option to overclock your PC. My reference Zotac GTX 970 can get a 10% performance boost with an overclock. The good ones can reach a 15% performance increase. It's also a viable option for CPU.

Overclocking

That's an article from September 2014(when the card was new). Since then the drivers improved a ton and some people achieved a sizable performance increase by overclocking their 970. Again, you're greatly underestimating the power of a 1,000$ rig.

Edit: I'm trying to use ShadowPlay and FRAPS to record my frame rate but my FPS gets demolished. I'll try to figure a way to properly record my game and be back on this.

@wobblypops: I wouldn't't get a pre built desktop PERIOD. All of them cut corners to make a profit large enough to stay in business. Until one is able to build laptops or a device as small and powerful as a alienware alpha, they are the only choices. And unlike other alienware products the alpha is really well priced. Yet again your talking about anecdotal experience, in which we can use to put down any company out there. The fact of the matter is the alpha has gotten rave reviews across the board and now is $100 cheaper at launch at being $450. It is by far the best steambox thus far at release. And I stand by my point, get a alpha and a ps4.

He'll

@MK-Professor: don't forget backwards compatibility with the pc in which you can play every pc game more or less that has come out in the past 20 years... Golden is talking out of his ass in literally saying that a handful of games some how trumps the massive library of pc's on top of the capability of modding along with better performance and visuals. Don't forget free and superior multiplayer.

@sSubZerOo: So the fact that gamers enjoy Madden, NHL, MLB games and all of those console exclusives should be ignored because of PC's modding, performance and visuals? I am a huge sports fan and probably play sports titles as much, if not more than any other genre. And I know there are many other people like me.

Again this is my stance in a $1000 PC vs the Xbox One and PS4. And I own a high end PC and all of the consoles.

But lets step this up a notch. Throw the Wii U and its titles in as well and I would most defiantly choose the 3 consoles over PC. Even my PC which has a 5960x at 4.2, 2 Titan Blacks and a 1440p monitor. It's all about games. I love Nintendo's first party titles. Throw that in with Microsofts and Sony's first part/exclusive titles and the choice is easy. I recognize that PC has a great deal of exclusive titles as well. But I enjoy the console exclusives more. That's just my opinion.

So to be clear. If I had to choose between better visuals and performance offered by PC or console exclusive titles I have grown to love over the years, I would choose the games. Luckily I don't have to choose and can have all 4 platforms and all of the handhelds.

..at teh risk of sounding like a dirty hermit..

$1000 can net you a pretty bad ass rig (to include monitor, OS, ect..). Now if you're buying the Laptop for "portability" I understand as I have a gaming Laptop as well as a gaming PC. But if you're serious about gaming on that thing, I would build a PC. What's your "end state?"

@OhSnapitz: I will build up a PC. At first I didn't want to head that direction 'cause I never built up a PC before, so I thought a full package (laptop) could do it, but now seeing the reactions here, I guess that's not optimal. Portability is more like a secondary target. It will of course prove to be useful, but it's secondary. Primary target is gaming at a high quality.

You think it's possible to build up a PC that can max out GTA5 or Witcher3 at, say 60fs 1080p, on $1000?

A $1000 gaming laptop is just as dead-end as consoles. I know because I have one. As a primary gaming machine, I choose the consoles.

..take a trip over to the PC forum and they'll hook you up.

Only if you're buying used parts. For example you could probably find a pair of R9 290 for under 400$. Problem is multi-gpu configurations are hit-and-miss. My SLI 970 wasn't working on GTA V at all last I checked and many older games do not support multi-gpu's. Not that you'd need two R9 290 to max them anyway.

@Juub1990: There are only 2 games I have had a problem with running sli in the past 5 years. Trackmania and The Star Citizen dogfight module. I'm shocked you had problems with GTA V. That game has run well for me since day 1. Well I did have problems with screen flicker on AC Unity as well but that was broken for everyone in some way.

I had a pair of 7950's in CrossFireX and they were a nightmare. Truth be told, the 7000 series was notorious for being complete garbage when more than a single GPU was at work. I returned the 970 because I mostly game on my 1080p TV and them in SLI was just overkill. Was getting 100fps in games and my TV is capped at 60Hz and my 1440p monitor is capped at 60Hz as well and I was getting 85fps in most games. GTA V was actually worse with SLI. Maybe it was the drivers at the time(around April 20th). Unless I get a 144hz monitor or a legit 120hz TV SLI for me is useless.

Edit: To get back on topic. Without the second of my 970's my PC is worth about 1,000$ US and it smacks the consoles around giving me double the frame rate at much higher settings. That's ignoring much cheaper games, mods, ability to play past-gen games, controls customization, exclusives and a bunch of other things.

What your arguing is completely subjective based on taste, because your completely ignoring pc exclusives... Furthermore I would argue most pc gamers view better performance and graphics as a perk, and no where near the main reason to play on pc. State that in the beginnimg what you prefer because you would have ended the argument much more quickly.

yes at high quality but not ,maxed, furthermore get rid of the term maxing out.... many of the more graphically demanding games have numerous experimental or high requirement low returns settings that aren't noticable or very small with a massive performance impact... Witcher 2's ubersampling still taxes mid range to high level machines to this day...

If you take advantage of sales, you can get a PS4 + Xbox One + Wii U for $1000.

I hope you enjoy buying games at 60$. 40$ if you're lucky. Over 5 years of buying games, these consoles will quickly cost you over 2,000$. Assuming you play 8 games a year at an average of 40$(generous), you'll end up spending 2,000$ on the consoles. 300$ XBL + 250$ PSN. Yep, 2,550$ for all these consoles over 5 years. Build a good gaming rig for 1,000$ instead. Then purchase games at an average of 30$(you can find EASILY find new games for less than 25$). 2,200$. Oh snap! PC gaming is actually cheaper!

@Juub1990: Unless you have a library that supplies physical games like I do. I pay $0 :)

Of course I do pay for PS+ but that's because I like the games offered. #PCpeasentrace

Yeah, I see your point.

Yeah this one... if you want it for games.. generally notebooks or laptops arent good. so if thats the only option then i guess go for a console, but if you want to game on pc get a desktop.. it will be far better than a notebook but a lot less portable.

Like I've never heard that argument before. Did you even need to quote me to say it? Just lay it out there for everyone instead of acting like we have a dialog going.

Why on earth would you buy a notebook with that money?

Get a desktop PC.

The only reason I could justify purchasing a gaming laptop is if I had a job which had me on the road more than 50% of the work week. If you're constantly sleeping in hotels, then the laptop can be worth it.

That said, I don't think you can get a decent laptop for only $1000, can you?

@Bruin1986: Nah, you gotta do lots of hunting. I found a good open box Alienware 17 with a 970m for $1100. That's as good as it gets.