12 years later, Deus Ex- Still the best game ever?

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"][QUOTE="dracolich55"] At least the bosses in the first had choices, lol. you had like 4 oppurtunities to kill Anne Navarre for example and you didnt even have to kill her in the end anyways.MLBknights58

I really wanna smack texas sometimes.

No fvck you can't kill story important NPC's. What if Sheperd could just smoke Captain Anderson at the beginning? Joker?

Use your head.

[QUOTE="MLBknights58"]

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"] However, you have to kill her, and if you "don't" the game will say you killed her anyway. Same with Grunther. Hell, also a huge problem is invincible NPCs which makes the game less free than you think. Wanna kill Manderley or Tracer Tong, too bad, we only let you kill them when we allow you to. Hell, Invisible War got rid of the invincible NPCs, instead set up scenarios where you can't gun them down, such as weapon free zones. And really the only boss in HR that should have been sparable is Fedorva in Picus.DrTrafalgarLaw

I really wanna smack texas sometimes.

No fvck you can't kill story important NPC's. What if Sheperd could just smoke Captain Anderson at the beginning? Joker?

Use your head.

No. It wasn't even the best game when it came out.

[QUOTE="Ravenshout"][QUOTE="Klopono"]Personally, I think Dark Souls is the best game of all time, but I'll have to give this one a try. :)dracolich55

[QUOTE="Klopono"]Personally, I think Dark Souls is the best game of all time, but I'll have to give this one a try. :)Ravenshout

Use your head... Mass Effect isn't based on complete player freedom like DX games are, hell, in mE1, they don't let you shoot at civilians and ME2 doesn't let you draw your gun at all in civ areas. But they do it in a way that doesn't break immersion. Why have invinicible NPCs, that is stupid when you are making a game that is about freedom and choice. So much for choice. Admit that its a flaw. And like I said, Invisible War has NO invinicble NPCs, if you can shoot them and hit them, they can die. HR stupidly brought back invincible NPCs....texasgoldrush

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"]Use your head... Mass Effect isn't based on complete player freedom like DX games are, hell, in mE1, they don't let you shoot at civilians and ME2 doesn't let you draw your gun at all in civ areas. But they do it in a way that doesn't break immersion. Why have invinicible NPCs, that is stupid when you are making a game that is about freedom and choice. So much for choice. Admit that its a flaw. And like I said, Invisible War has NO invinicble NPCs, if you can shoot them and hit them, they can die. HR stupidly brought back invincible NPCs....SciFiRPGfan

In ME1, when you aim at civs, you can't fire....and when you shoot at squadmates in ME games, they do comment. And if they fall in battle, they don't "die" anyway.texasgoldrush

Skyrim ha sunkillable NPCs, but New Vegas did not (except for companions on normal mode). New Vegas did it right and really, its better than Deus Ex overall. Same freedom, but with far better writing and characters.

However, unkillable NPCs limits the freedom of the game and if you are going to base a game off freedom, like Deus Ex, it is a noticable flaw you can't ignore. Invicible nPCs are railroading. Mass Effect is not based on "freedom" of gamplay, but takes a choose your own adventure type story approach. So you can't compare DX to ME approaches, its apples and oranges. You can only compare how good th eapple is and how good the orange is.

But, for example IMO Mass Effect as supposedly even more story driven game than Deus Ex should focus on giving freedom to kill characters and reflect it in the story even more than Deus Ex because, like you say, the story and choices and consequences are its strongest features. Deus Ex OTOH, at the end of the day, would still have plenty of options and alternative routes how to accomplish missions and plenty of interaction with environment as its strong features and therefore would probably be still respected even without the options to kill ingame NPCs. Mass Effect OTOH, does not offer that much except for story and choices and consequence which unfortunately are for example limited exactly by various limits such as restrictions to kill NPCs.

Of course, all that I mean purely theoretically, because I do not have the problem with unkillable NPCs in the first place.

"Invisible War did it smart, they only used the unbreakable window trick twice (once for Nassif and once for Sparks) and other times put NPCs that further the story ito no weapon zones and had good story reasons for no weapon zones. Also they talk through intercom or communication device, like Saman. It was far more realistic."

Yeah, well electronically locking my batons and knives did not make much sense either.

Hey guys, I recently came across an article http://www.retrocollect.com/Articles/deus-ex-still-the-best-game-ever.html

And I have to say.....

I completely agree, Deus Ex is the PINNACLE of choice in game play, I have played it like over 20 times and I still discover new things and new ways to play. People always talk about the Half Lifes, the Zelda's, The marios, the Halos, the Uncharteds, the Mass effects, etc but yet people seem to dismiss this masterpiece over more high profile games.

You can literally play any way you want. Deus ex is a shooter, a platformer, a stealth game, an RPG, etc You can literally do ANYTHING you want and every choice branches off into another set of choices both gameplay and plot wise. This includes killing a few major characters early on. If you have not purchased this game yet, DO IT NOW. I don't care if your not a PC gamer, if you don't like shooters, if your a graphic whore that only plays current gen games, there is no reason not to buy this game. ..

Speaking of graphics hears a neat guide I found to maximize graphics and performance on Deus Ex: http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1235278

So what say you, System Warriors?

dracolich55

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"]Use your head... Mass Effect isn't based on complete player freedom like DX games are, hell, in mE1, they don't let you shoot at civilians and ME2 doesn't let you draw your gun at all in civ areas. But they do it in a way that doesn't break immersion. Why have invinicible NPCs, that is stupid when you are making a game that is about freedom and choice. So much for choice. Admit that its a flaw. And like I said, Invisible War has NO invinicble NPCs, if you can shoot them and hit them, they can die. HR stupidly brought back invincible NPCs....SciFiRPGfan

[QUOTE="SciFiRPGfan"][QUOTE="texasgoldrush"]Use your head... Mass Effect isn't based on complete player freedom like DX games are, hell, in mE1, they don't let you shoot at civilians and ME2 doesn't let you draw your gun at all in civ areas. But they do it in a way that doesn't break immersion. Why have invinicible NPCs, that is stupid when you are making a game that is about freedom and choice. So much for choice. Admit that its a flaw. And like I said, Invisible War has NO invinicble NPCs, if you can shoot them and hit them, they can die. HR stupidly brought back invincible NPCs....texasgoldrush

I played HR, but not the first one. What would be the best way to buy it?

I spill my drink!

Is the bold in pink for anyone else? Or am I just really drunk?

I played HR, but not the first one. What would be the best way to buy it?

HaloPimp978

One of the best with a doubt from the 2000's. A revolutionary game. The original is definitely better than the newer Deus Ex Human Revolution (not that Human Revolution is a bad game, it's a great game). But there is something about the original Deus Ex that would put it in my top 10 games of the 2000's.

...And thank's for the link for the graphics update. Any way to make it work in HD widescreen.

I always like to play older games but the 4:3 aspect ratio and the stretch it does makes on newer HD widescreen makes the game look worse on top of the outdated graphics, and not to mention more blurrier.

I didnt really like the gameplay too much but I LOVED Human Revolution (personal top 5 this gen). I hope they do an HD remake of it though, judging from the post credits of HR seems like a possibilty.

If you understand what the game was going for then it's wonderful.

It's very, very, VERY painful to talk to someone about Deus Ex who went into the game expecting it to be a rooty tooty point and shooty type of game.

I've never heard someone sound so dumb while bashing a game.

Deues Ex 1 is overrated, it was an amazing concept, but mediocre execution. The shooting sucks, the game is far too unbalanced, the VA is terrible, the pacing of the story was atrocious, the characters were all one dimensional, weak endgame, and gotta love those invinicble NPCs, so much for freedom of choice. Its funny when people rat on the sequel when its got a far better story and better characters and a better finale. Its too bad they removed the "RPG elements" but kept the clunk. HR is clearly the best in the franchise. Except for boss battles, its DX done right.texasgoldrush

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"]Deues Ex 1 is overrated, it was an amazing concept, but mediocre execution. The shooting sucks, the game is far too unbalanced, the VA is terrible, the pacing of the story was atrocious, the characters were all one dimensional, weak endgame, and gotta love those invinicble NPCs, so much for freedom of choice. Its funny when people rat on the sequel when its got a far better story and better characters and a better finale. Its too bad they removed the "RPG elements" but kept the clunk. HR is clearly the best in the franchise. Except for boss battles, its DX done right.ioannisdenton

Deus Ex, best game ever? This is when DX fans get dumb. Yes, its a good game that was influential, but it has no business because of how flawed it is, being the best game of all time. Lets see, PC games that are better than DX: Ultima IV-VII, Civ II-IV, Doom, Wolfenstein 3d, Half Life 1 and 2, Fallout, Baldur's Gate I and II (DX isn't even the best PC game that YEAR), Planescape Torment, Alpha Centauri, X-C0M, Command and Conquer and Red Alert, Heroes of Might and Magic II and III, Grim Fandango, TIE Fighter, and many more. Deus Ex gets proper praise at being influential, but fans just can't recognize its hideous flaws and even highly overrate the games allowance of freedom (Fallout 1 and 2 does a FAR better job at the freedom department). And if you do compare it to ME2, lets see....the characters are FAR better in ME2 and so is the writing and VA, the combat is far better...and then you comapre apples to oranges, Mass Effect is not about exploration, its about getting the mission done, so level design WILL be different in ME games than in DX. And classes in ME2 have minor differences, what are you smoking? They all play far differently in their approaches to combat. ME2 doesn't have conversational choices....lol. Nevermind the fact that choices impact ME3, like even the loading screen in ME2 says. Nevermind DX's flaws, terrible combat, one dimensional characters, poor pacing, invincible NPCs, bad VA, bugs, bad gameplay balance (dragon tooth sword...lol) and weak ending...best game ever, I think not.texasgoldrush

The game is like the games music, kinda dated now in some respects but still carrying a certain undefiniable, magical, uniquely toned quality to it which still sets it apart and above almost any game music that has come since.

12 years later and I still get a tingle up the back of my spine whenever I hear the first 10 seconds of this;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7w3bgRdlanI

Then when you first enter UNATCO you get that homely, beginning of the mystery glow;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_wsxDFRbEk

When you arrive in Hong Kong for the first time;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzvw8uSWucM

Exploring Versalife Corporation building;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkqncRuhKYU

The whole soundtrack is littered with gems like this. Dated yes, but timeless because of their tone and inherent quality. Much like the game.

Also for anyone considering playing the game for the first time, some tips;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUrV7mGMMjE

Also this guy, this guy knows where it's at;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=op94SHnOkDw

edit - This forum has absolutely no respect for any spacing I try to give my posts. It saddens me.

Deux Ex is too RPG'ish for me to be interested in playing.

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"][QUOTE="SciFiRPGfan"] What does complete freedom mean though? If you are expecting to be able to kill NPCs important for the story at any given time, then your expectations are completely unrealistic. Even now, in 2012 games don't have designs / stories that would allow that. The best example would be Skyrim, an extremely successful game in terms of critical reception, sales numbers and even as far as sizes of fanbases are concerned, which was even marketed as a game with one of best freedoms of how to play the game around. And yet, even Skyrim had plenty of unkillable NPCs. As for the immersion breaking, that's pretty subjective too. I am much more annoyed by sudden inability of my character to draw / use a weapon when I want to than by unkillable NPCs. And using interaction with NPCs hidden behind equally unrealistically unbrekable windows / grillages can only be used so much before it starts to be annying too. As for the Mass Effects, feel free to correct me, but if I recall correctly, Mass Effect 1 allowed player to shoot at civilian NPCs but it did nothing - the NPCs didn't even notice that. Mass Effect 2 went for the restrictive approach and did not allow the player to draw weapons in some areas, but by your (dumb) logic, the inability to kill squadmates in combat missions by shooting at them must be an immersion breaker and design flaw too.dracolich55

Agreed for the most part, however am the only one who likes the Deus Ex characters :p And I cant believe people gave ME2 such high scores, DA:O was WAY better, I think DA:O deserves the praise ME2 got.dracolich55

[QUOTE="dracolich55"] Agreed for the most part, however am the only one who likes the Deus Ex characters :p And I cant believe people gave ME2 such high scores, DA:O was WAY better, I think DA:O deserves the praise ME2 got.texasgoldrush

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"][QUOTE="dracolich55"] Agreed for the most part, however am the only one who likes the Deus Ex characters :p And I cant believe people gave ME2 such high scores, DA:O was WAY better, I think DA:O deserves the praise ME2 got.dracolich55

[QUOTE="dracolich55"][QUOTE="texasgoldrush"] No, DAO is overrated. The characters are all a bunch of KOTOR clones and with the exception of Leliana and Wynne (due to the new novel) are one dimensional, the gameplay is extremely unbalanced, the lore and storytelling ar every cliched and uninspiring. Mass Effect 2 has far better gameplay, far better characters, far better universe and lore, and even a far better plot. DAO pushes no new ground, it is a rehash of every other RPG that came before and was easily surpassed by The Witcher and NWN2 MOTB. And really, DAO was just a cash in for all the BG nostalgics. texasgoldrush

Except for endgame, hen does Deus Ex give you choices on story? Outside a few moments, it is extremely railroaded. Your choices are cosmetic. Once again, Deus Ex fans overrate the power of choice in the game. There is only a couple story choices that matter and they matter VERY little, does Paul survive? Where did you send the doctor? Did you get the bomb out of Jocks chopper? Thats it. The entire series is railroaded and the ending is a cop out. You can easily see all the endings by reloading the save and the whole series is guilty of this. The game is far overrated. Games did freedom of choice far better than DX before, and games did freedom far better after.texasgoldrush

It's not better than Mass Effect.001011000101101

Mass Effect gives you more choice in WHAT TO DO with an objective.texasgoldrush

Dafuq?

What?

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"]

Mass Effect gives you more choice in WHAT TO DO with an objective.N30F3N1X

Dafuq?

What?

Call me crazy, but I greatly prefer Human Revolution to the original. donalbane

Do you kill the Rachni queen or spare her? Do you destroy or spare genphage cure data gotten unethically? Do you let Kasumi keep her greybox? Etc. None of this in Deus Ex except for a few moments.texasgoldrush

And none of that affects gameplay nor story either in any way except for a few lines. Doesn't really seem a big difference in "what to do" to me.

Of course ME3 isn't here yet but until then, the above applies.

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"]Do you kill the Rachni queen or spare her? Do you destroy or spare genphage cure data gotten unethically? Do you let Kasumi keep her greybox? Etc. None of this in Deus Ex except for a few moments.N30F3N1X

And none of that affects gameplay nor story either in any way except for a few lines. Doesn't really seem a big difference in "what to do" to me.

Of course ME3 isn't here yet but until then, the above applies.

It is good but not the best.