A 500$ PC trounces Either next gen console.

[QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"][QUOTE="Chutebox"]

" If you do have anything you can recycle, including an existent copy of Windows,"

So, not 500...

psymon100

Play on consoles without a display?

I don't have the room for all my systems AND a pc going to my tv.

[QUOTE="BeardMaster"]

[QUOTE="psymon100"]

Play on consoles without a display?

psymon100

most people have a television in the living room.

Unfortunately you cant use a M/KB on the couch, and most people dont have a computer desk in their living room.

"Most people"? That's a statement which requires data.

I'm an individual. So I'll just take a photo of what is right in front of me. 

[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

In this photo we can see a PC plugged into a television and Battlefield 3 is being played. So I didn't buy a seperate display. 

"Unfortunately you cant use a M/KB on the couch" - I am of the species 'homo sapiens', I can and do use the mouse and keyboard on the couch often. Helps if you're wearing jeans, there's also a coffee table. What species are you? Also, you might notice a USB coming out the front of the PC - she plays with a controller. And she is usually the best player on the team. If I were playing Guild Wars 2 on the couch I can play with keyboard and mouse comfortably. 

"most people dont have a computer desk in their living room." Desks are not necessary for gaming PCs. 

If one should factor in a display when buying a gaming PC, then I'd suggest one also should factor in a display when buying a console. 

Give the PS3 controller a try, if you like the feel of it. You'll need a program called motioninjoy, which basically just makes the dualshock emulate a 360 controller. You'll also have to deal with 360 buttons in on-screen prompts, unless you want to use mods to change them. But if you're experienced enough with both controllers, that shouldn't be too hard to do.

the_bi99man

[QUOTE="psymon100"]

[QUOTE="BeardMaster"]

 

most people have a television in the living room.

 

Unfortunately you cant use a M/KB on the couch, and most people dont have a computer desk in their living room.

WilliamRLBaker

"Most people"? That's a statement which requires data.

I'm an individual. So I'll just take a photo of what is right in front of me. 

[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

In this photo we can see a PC plugged into a television and Battlefield 3 is being played. So I didn't buy a seperate display. 

"Unfortunately you cant use a M/KB on the couch" - I am of the species 'homo sapiens', I can and do use the mouse and keyboard on the couch often. Helps if you're wearing jeans, there's also a coffee table. What species are you? Also, you might notice a USB coming out the front of the PC - she plays with a controller. And she is usually the best player on the team. If I were playing Guild Wars 2 on the couch I can play with keyboard and mouse comfortably. 

"most people dont have a computer desk in their living room." Desks are not necessary for gaming PCs. 

If one should factor in a display when buying a gaming PC, then I'd suggest one also should factor in a display when buying a console. 

WiiU: Pikmin 3, Mario Kart 8, ...

PS4: Infamous: Second Son, Killzone: Shadowfall, ...

etc., etc., you get the point

[QUOTE="psymon100"]

"Most people"? That's a statement which requires data.

I'm an individual. So I'll just take a photo of what is right in front of me. 

[spoiler]

 

[/spoiler]

In this photo we can see a PC plugged into a television and Battlefield 3 is being played. So I didn't buy a seperate display. 

"Unfortunately you cant use a M/KB on the couch" - I am of the species 'homo sapiens', I can and do use the mouse and keyboard on the couch often. Helps if you're wearing jeans, there's also a coffee table. What species are you? Also, you might notice a USB coming out the front of the PC - she plays with a controller. And she is usually the best player on the team. If I were playing Guild Wars 2 on the couch I can play with keyboard and mouse comfortably. 

"most people dont have a computer desk in their living room." Desks are not necessary for gaming PCs. 

 

If one should factor in a display when buying a gaming PC, then I'd suggest one also should factor in a display when buying a console. 

WilliamRLBaker

Damn. Well, I don't support that position - of greater than 1080p being necessary. Yeah. I'm just trying to be fair man. Factor in a display on both or neither I say. 

And....... the Hermits have been owned again.

And....... the Hermits have been owned again.

Davekeeh

And it'll also run WatchDogs past 20 fps.

lmao consoles .

And....... the Hermits have been owned again.

Davekeeh

[QUOTE="BeardMaster"]

[QUOTE="psymon100"]

Play on consoles without a display?

psymon100

most people have a television in the living room.

Unfortunately you cant use a M/KB on the couch, and most people dont have a computer desk in their living room.

"Most people"? That's a statement which requires data.

I'm an individual. So I'll just take a photo of what is right in front of me. 

[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

In this photo we can see a PC plugged into a television and Battlefield 3 is being played. So I didn't buy a seperate display. 

"Unfortunately you cant use a M/KB on the couch" - I am of the species 'homo sapiens', I can and do use the mouse and keyboard on the couch often. Helps if you're wearing jeans, there's also a coffee table. What species are you? Also, you might notice a USB coming out the front of the PC - she plays with a controller. And she is usually the best player on the team. If I were playing Guild Wars 2 on the couch I can play with keyboard and mouse comfortably. 

"most people dont have a computer desk in their living room." Desks are not necessary for gaming PCs. 

If one should factor in a display when buying a gaming PC, then I'd suggest one also should factor in a display when buying a console. 

[QUOTE="Davekeeh"]

And....... the Hermits have been owned again.

DragonfireXZ95

[QUOTE="Davekeeh"]

And....... the Hermits have been owned again.

Jankarcop

 

Davekeeh

wis3boi

Hilarious :D

Yeah but in 3-5 years you'll still be able to pop a game into either console and play it without any issues. If you want to do the same with that PC you'll need to lower graphic settings and hope you can run it at a stable framerate.

There are massive advantages to closed platform hardware.

If you're going to build a PC, build a good one. Don't set your minimum specs just enough to beat the damn consoles. If you're going to do that, buy a damn console and play that. It will last you longer without the issues of an aging PC.

If the last 10 years of PC ownership has taught me anything it's that olders PCs have more problems than they are worth.

Wasdie

With next-gen consoles, there wouldn't be another unified shader design shift.

With GpGPU features, Nvidia Keplers are inferior to AMD GCN.

[QUOTE="BeardMaster"]

[QUOTE="psymon100"]

Play on consoles without a display?

psymon100

most people have a television in the living room.

Unfortunately you cant use a M/KB on the couch, and most people dont have a computer desk in their living room.

"Most people"? That's a statement which requires data.

I'm an individual. So I'll just take a photo of what is right in front of me. 

[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

In this photo we can see a PC plugged into a television and Battlefield 3 is being played. So I didn't buy a seperate display. 

"Unfortunately you cant use a M/KB on the couch" - I am of the species 'homo sapiens', I can and do use the mouse and keyboard on the couch often. Helps if you're wearing jeans, there's also a coffee table. What species are you? Also, you might notice a USB coming out the front of the PC - she plays with a controller. And she is usually the best player on the team. If I were playing Guild Wars 2 on the couch I can play with keyboard and mouse comfortably. 

"most people dont have a computer desk in their living room." Desks are not necessary for gaming PCs. 

If one should factor in a display when buying a gaming PC, then I'd suggest one also should factor in a display when buying a console. 

desks are necessary to PC game comfortably. If i build a harness that holds a computer monitor in front of my face and strap a tower case to my back thats hooked up to a car battery so i can PC game on the subway, that doesnt mean PCs are a mobile gaming device.

I have 2 gaming PCs, both are at computer desks with computer monitors. Most of my friends have gaming PCs, they also have monitors and desks. 99% of people consider a desk and a monitor necessary to PC game comfortably. I would never want to do long gaming sessions hunched over a coffee table. When i was a kid i used to drag my PC all over the place, set it up on coffee tables, the floor etc. but those were temporary circumstances. Of course its possible to to play a PC without a desk and computer monitor, but very few people do because its not practical. Even my gaming laptop, if i want to play games i drag it into the computer room and plop it on a desk because its difficult and uncomfortable to do so otherwise.

Just because something is possible, doesnt make it practical. Then again that seems to be the theme with these comparisons. Launch consoles are sold at a loss PC hardware is sold at a profit. Its impossible for a PC to match the price/performance of consoles without sacrificing quality and comfort in the process.

[QUOTE="psymon100"]

[QUOTE="BeardMaster"]

 

most people have a television in the living room.

 

Unfortunately you cant use a M/KB on the couch, and most people dont have a computer desk in their living room.

BeardMaster

"Most people"? That's a statement which requires data.

I'm an individual. So I'll just take a photo of what is right in front of me. 

[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

In this photo we can see a PC plugged into a television and Battlefield 3 is being played. So I didn't buy a seperate display. 

"Unfortunately you cant use a M/KB on the couch" - I am of the species 'homo sapiens', I can and do use the mouse and keyboard on the couch often. Helps if you're wearing jeans, there's also a coffee table. What species are you? Also, you might notice a USB coming out the front of the PC - she plays with a controller. And she is usually the best player on the team. If I were playing Guild Wars 2 on the couch I can play with keyboard and mouse comfortably. 

"most people dont have a computer desk in their living room." Desks are not necessary for gaming PCs. 

If one should factor in a display when buying a gaming PC, then I'd suggest one also should factor in a display when buying a console. 

desks are necessary to PC game comfortably. If i build a harness that holds a computer monitor in front of my face and strap a tower case to my back thats hooked up to a car battery so i can PC game on the subway, that doesnt mean PCs are a mobile gaming device.

I have 2 gaming PCs, both are at computer desks with computer monitors. Most of my friends have gaming PCs, they also have monitors and desks. 99% of people consider a desk and a monitor necessary to PC game comfortably. I would never want to do long gaming sessions hunched over a coffee table. When i was a kid i used to drag my PC all over the place, set it up on coffee tables, the floor etc. but those were temporary circumstances. Of course its possible to to play a PC without a desk and computer monitor, but very few people do because its not practical. Even my gaming laptop, if i want to play games i drag it into the computer room and plop it on a desk because its difficult and uncomfortable to do so otherwise.

Just because something is possible, doesnt make it practical. Then again that seems to be the theme with these comparisons. Launch consoles are sold at a loss PC hardware is sold at a profit. Its impossible for a PC to match the price/performance of consoles without sacrificing quality and comfort in the process.

And now to be on topic, a 500 PC ends up being junk. If your gonna go PC, do it right and give yourself a budget of 800-1000 so you can actually buy name brand parts that wont fry in a year.

Console Optimizations aren't myth, My first PC config was a Athlon x2 5000 and 2 7900 GT's in SLi with 2gb of ram. It could not keep up with gaming in the long run. Sure, it played oblivion and such titles better, but it really started to show it's age on later games to the point where to me they were unplayable on low settings and very jumpy frame rates.

I shall see how my current desktop will fair, i7 3930k, 16gb ram and 2gb GTX 680 as we move into this coming generation. I do actually feel that it could be very different this gen as my current PC does actually blow the consoles out of the water from the get go, but PC only and games that take advantage of PC might make my 680 become outdated in a few years.

ryangcnx-2

GTX 680 doesn't support DirectX 11.1 Level 11.1 features e.g Level 11.1 spec's 64 UAV slots, while 680's Level 11.0 spec's 8 UAV slots.

Nvidia Keplers are already behind the DX compute feature set.

------------------------

Design issues with Geforce 7 and RSX. PS3 has CELL's SPUs to patch RSX's GpGPU issues.

From forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=57736&page=5

"I could go on for pages listing the types of things the spu's are used for to make up for the machines aging gpu, which may be 7 series NVidia but that's basically a tweaked 6 series NVidia for the most part. But I'll just type a few off the top of my head:"

1) Two ppu/vmx units There are three ppu/vmx units on the 360, and just one on the PS3. So any load on the 360's remaining two ppu/vmx units must be moved to spu.

2) Vertex culling You can look back a few years at my first post talking about this, but it's common knowledge now that you need to move as much vertex load as possible to spu otherwise it won't keep pace with the 360.

3) Vertex texture sampling You can texture sample in vertex shaders on 360 just fine, but it's unusably slow on PS3. Most multi platform games simply won't use this feature on 360 to make keeping parity easier, but if a dev does make use of it then you will have no choice but to move all such functionality to spu.

4) Shader patching Changing variables in shader programs is cake on the 360. Not so on the PS3 because they are embedded into the shader programs. So you have to use spu's to patch your shader programs.

5) Branching You never want a lot of branching in general, but when you do really need it the 360 handles it fine, PS3 does not. If you are stuck needing branching in shaders then you will want to move all such functionality to spu.

6) Shader inputs You can pass plenty of inputs to shaders on 360, but do it on PS3 and your game will grind to a halt. You will want to move all such functionality to spu to minimize the amount of inputs needed on the shader programs.

7) MSAA alternatives Msaa runs full speed on 360 gpu needing just cpu tiling calculations. Msaa on PS3 gpu is very slow. You will want to move msaa to spu as soon as you can.

8. Post processing 360 is unified architecture meaning post process steps can often be slotted into gpu idle time. This is not as easily doable on PS3, so you will want to move as much post process to spu as possible.

9) Load balancing 360 gpu load balances itself just fine since it's unified. If the load on a given frame shifts to heavy vertex or heavy pixel load then you don't care. Not so on PS3 where such load shifts will cause frame drops. You will want to shift as much load as possible to spu to minimize your peak load on the gpu.

10) Half floats You can use full floats just fine on the 360 gpu. On the PS3 gpu they cause performance slowdowns. If you really need/have to use shaders with many full floats then you will want to move such functionality over to the spu's.

11) Shader array indexing You can index into arrays in shaders on the 360 gpu no problem. You can't do that on PS3. If you absolutely need this functionality then you will have to either rework your shaders or move it all to spu.

--------------------------------------------------------

Note that Radeon X19x0 has full speed 32bit compute and good shader branch preformance i.e. X1950 Pro (with similar GFLOPS as Xbox 360's Xenos) can run Crysis 2 similar to Xbox 360.

My point, pick a GPU that has foward looking designs.

The excuses for not going PC are always hilarious :D

pc is inconvenient, and i dont want to play garbage truck simulator lol.  pc has the worst games, consoles are for gaming pc is for homework and resume' haha

kingoflife9

" If you do have anything you can recycle, including an existent copy of Windows,"

So, not 500...

Chutebox

I'm actually in the market for a strong laptop under $500, any tips?Blabadon

pc is inconvenient, and i dont want to play garbage truck simulator lol.  pc has the worst games, consoles are for gaming pc is for homework and resume' haha

kingoflife9

[QUOTE="stereointegrity"]lol 128gb ssd...... and optimization is better then that pc....get over it tcthe_bi99man

"Optimization is better then that pc"?

Learn stuff.

[QUOTE="DragonfireXZ95"][QUOTE="kingoflife9"]

pc is inconvenient, and i dont want to play garbage truck simulator lol.  pc has the worst games, consoles are for gaming pc is for homework and resume' haha

kingoflife9

last week was actually my 10 year anniversary of losing my virginity!  but you guys have fun in the basement, south park taught us that the pc is the master race...

Lmao, 10 year anniversary? Is that what you call it?

Rosey sends her regards, she wants her friends back.

[QUOTE="psymon100"]

[QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"] not even 600 since I dont have a monitor.BeardMaster

Play on consoles without a display?

most people have a television in the living room.

Unfortunately you cant use a M/KB on the couch, and most people dont have a computer desk in their living room.

[QUOTE="DragonfireXZ95"][QUOTE="kingoflife9"]

pc is inconvenient, and i dont want to play garbage truck simulator lol.  pc has the worst games, consoles are for gaming pc is for homework and resume' haha

kingoflife9

last week was actually my 10 year anniversary of losing my virginity!  but you guys have fun in the basement, south park taught us that the pc is the master race...

At the end of the day, pc always wins.

[QUOTE="BeardMaster"]

[QUOTE="psymon100"]

"Most people"? That's a statement which requires data.

I'm an individual. So I'll just take a photo of what is right in front of me. 

[spoiler]

 

[/spoiler]

In this photo we can see a PC plugged into a television and Battlefield 3 is being played. So I didn't buy a seperate display. 

"Unfortunately you cant use a M/KB on the couch" - I am of the species 'homo sapiens', I can and do use the mouse and keyboard on the couch often. Helps if you're wearing jeans, there's also a coffee table. What species are you? Also, you might notice a USB coming out the front of the PC - she plays with a controller. And she is usually the best player on the team. If I were playing Guild Wars 2 on the couch I can play with keyboard and mouse comfortably. 

"most people dont have a computer desk in their living room." Desks are not necessary for gaming PCs. 

 

If one should factor in a display when buying a gaming PC, then I'd suggest one also should factor in a display when buying a console. 

DragonfireXZ95

desks are necessary to PC game comfortably. If i build a harness that holds a computer monitor in front of my face and strap a tower case to my back thats hooked up to a car battery so i can PC game on the subway, that doesnt mean PCs are a mobile gaming device.

I have 2 gaming PCs, both are at computer desks with computer monitors. Most of my friends have gaming PCs, they also have monitors and desks. 99% of people consider a desk and a monitor necessary to PC game comfortably. I would never want to do long gaming sessions hunched over a coffee table. When i was a kid i used to drag my PC all over the place, set it up on coffee tables, the floor etc. but those were temporary circumstances. Of course its possible to to play a PC without a desk and computer monitor, but very few people do because its not practical. Even my gaming laptop, if i want to play games i drag it into the computer room and plop it on a desk because its difficult and uncomfortable to do so otherwise.

Just because something is possible, doesnt make it practical. Then again that seems to be the theme with these comparisons. Launch consoles are sold at a loss PC hardware is sold at a profit. Its impossible for a PC to match the price/performance of consoles without sacrificing quality and comfort in the process.

That would unfortunately prevent people from playing alot of games, including most PC exclusives and would make for a miserable online experience in any shooter.

I don't think I'd trust that power supply to run my nintendo DS, let alone a PC.

£500 is pretty cheap. Just cancelled my PS4 pre order, can't wait to play Killzone 4, Infamous SS etc maxed out on my £500 rig

You can do more with a PC than with a console. You get more value for usually what results in a little more expensive price. But you get far greater performance with the PC.

pc is inconvenient, and i dont want to play garbage truck simulator lol. pc has the worst games, consoles are for gaming pc is for homework and resume' haha

kingoflife9

There you have it folks; A Consolite...in the flesh. ^^^^^^^^

desks are necessary to PC game comfortably. If i build a harness that holds a computer monitor in front of my face and strap a tower case to my back thats hooked up to a car battery so i can PC game on the subway, that doesnt mean PCs are a mobile gaming device.

 I have 2 gaming PCs, both are at computer desks with computer monitors. Most of my friends have gaming PCs, they also have monitors and desks. 99% of people consider a desk and a monitor necessary to PC game comfortably. I would never want to do long gaming sessions hunched over a coffee table. When i was a kid i used to drag my PC all over the place, set it up on coffee tables, the floor etc. but those were temporary circumstances. Of course its possible to to play a PC without a desk and computer monitor, but very few people do because its not practical. Even my gaming laptop, if i want to play games i drag it into the computer room and plop it on a desk because its difficult and uncomfortable to do so otherwise.

 Just because something is possible, doesnt make it practical. Then again that seems to be the theme with these comparisons. Launch consoles are sold at a loss PC hardware is sold at a profit. Its impossible for a PC to match the price/performance of consoles without sacrificing quality and comfort in the process.

BeardMaster

First of all I just want to say - you made me laugh a couple of times, good sense of humour. Your bit about PC being a mobile gaming device is hilarious. 

Don't get me wrong, if you're comfortable at a desk that's great, and I encourage anyone to choose for themselves. But I'm really confused as to why you think a desk is necessary when someone could choose to go without one? I choose to go without one and it's no compromise at all, couple of other guys have chimed in like the big man. But I'll admit that some genres like RTS do much better on a desk. FPS I might as well play on the couch. 

But here is where I'm really confused BeardMaster. You say you have two gaming PCs - why would you suggest that PC gaming on the couch is not an option at all? Surely even though playing PC from a couch is not your favourite: well imagine this - if you're a gaming PC kind of guy and you're talking to some dude, and he said the only reason he wouldn't play PC is because he loves playing from the couch - what would you say? Would you say to this person 'tough' or would you say something like 'well personally I think you'd be insane for doing it, but you could' and then the explanation of how they could pull it off? 

I'd be perfectly happy if you thought I was a mental case playing PC games from the couch. 

That car battery thing man, hahaha. 

PC gaming.

[spoiler] [/spoiler]

Console gaming.

[spoiler] [/spoiler]

The excuses for not going PC are always hilarious :D

KungfuKitten

[QUOTE="KungfuKitten"]

The excuses for not going PC are always hilarious :D

lowe0

[QUOTE="KungfuKitten"]

The excuses for not going PC are always hilarious :D

lowe0

Yeah it's not an excuse, they're just in denial.

[QUOTE="lowe0"][QUOTE="KungfuKitten"]

The excuses for not going PC are always hilarious :D

kipsta77

Yeah it's not an excuse, they're just in denial.

Eh, me thinks your vision is ummm.... Clouded.

Cloud powah baby, no cloud, no powah, give it up. :twisted:

[QUOTE="lowe0"][QUOTE="KungfuKitten"]

The excuses for not going PC are always hilarious :D

princeofshapeir

[QUOTE="KungfuKitten"]

The excuses for not going PC are always hilarious :D

lowe0

£500 is pretty cheap. Just cancelled my PS4 pre order, can't wait to play Killzone 4, Infamous SS etc maxed out on my £500 rig

Harisemo

[QUOTE="lowe0"][QUOTE="KungfuKitten"]

The excuses for not going PC are always hilarious :D

kipsta77

Yeah it's not an excuse, they're just in denial.