A majority of PC gamers who complain about DRM are hypocrites.

I am not targeting anyone specifically here with this small little complaint.

Honestly, I am rather tired with all the negativity surrounding DRM in PC games.

From EA's use of SecuROM last year to Ubisoft's new "always-online" protection scheme, thousands of people voice their complaints on message boards, Amazon.com, Youtube, etc. I am tired of it all.

Personally, I don't mind DRM very much at all. For example, for all the hooplah about SecuROM, I haven't seen it do anything serious to my computer. I have installed many games requiring activation via SecuROM. I haven't had any trouble with it at all. My computer hasn't melted down yet, despite what these anti-DRM folks are saying.

However, I do get angry when developers take certain PC-only features out of new games (like the IWNet fiasco and the lack of dedicated servers for MW2). But, that is a completely different story altogether.

I would simply like to point out the hypocrisy that these anti-DRM folks express.

As we all know, software piracy affects the PC gaming industry. These DRM schemes were developed as a result of piracy, not the other way around. Piracy is piracy, and it occurs regardless of whether a game has DRM or not.

Yet all these anti-DRM PC gamers scream like spoiled children, especially those who pirate games themselves on a regular basis! They are causing the very problem they claim to be protesting against!

Anyone agree? Does everyone see the logic in my argument? A majority of these anti-DRM folks are lying hypocrites, sucking the life out of PC gaming as we know it. They expect to play games for free, and raise bloody hell when their actions cause DRM to be instituted into games.

It's disgusting. I know DRM is not the solution, but seeing how an estimated 83% of PC gamers pirate games, a lot of these anti-DRM folks are clearly hypocrites. HYPOCRITES!

...

i still cant play read alert 3 online because of the secuROM so i have reason to not like it.ferret-gamer

I never had a problem with SecuROM. Just disable Daemon Tools or whatever disk emulator tool you have running before playing, should work fine.

I personally find that Steamworks is an infinitely better DRM than any other known method.

I don't personally have a problem with DRM, but I know a few people who have had trouble with it, especially when it forces you to be online while playing. And also it does absolutley nothing to prevent piracy. But I agree that some people make a bigger deal out of it than it really is.

I personally find that Steamworks is an infinitely better DRM than any other known method.

flashn00b

You blind? Crackers get through that DRM more easily than a hot knife through butter. Steamworks was originally conceived to prevent people from reselling their games, not to prevent crackers.

Maybe you don't understand the real situation. According to PC users that post here, none of them have ever illegally copied anything ever. In fact, according to them, there is hardly an PC piracy AT ALL and therefore their rights to play any game they want any way or any time they want are being violated unfairly and for no reason.

[QUOTE="flashn00b"]

I personally find that Steamworks is an infinitely better DRM than any other known method.

The_Capitalist

You blind? Crackers get through that DRM more easily than a hot knife through butter. Steamworks was originally conceived to prevent people from reselling their games, not to prevent crackers.

I do know that piracy is stil persistent for those games, but hey, it isn't as anger-inducing as SecuROM.

Maybe you don't understand the real situation. According to PC users that post here, none of them have ever illegally copied anything ever. In fact, according to them, there is hardly an PC piracy AT ALL and therefore their rights to play any game they want any way or any time they want are being violated unfairly and for no reason.

ZIMdoom

Oh, how naive you are. Then explain how 250,000 people jumped on the Mass Effect 2 torrents when it released? "If there is hardly any PC piracy."

A.Piracy has little to no real effect on sales

B.DRM isnt going to stop or slow piracy and is just a hinderence to consumers and a placebo to make investors happy

C.people are idiots

Assassins Creed 2 has been cracked. It can be done in three simple steps. So now what? The people who legitimately bough the game are screwed because Ubisoft's servers are down, or the internet they have is unstable.GeneralShowzer

I'd say this.

It's not that DRM is bad per say, DRM is necessary because as you pointed out, piracy is rampant in this day and age. However, the extent to which these things go is ridiculous. When the DRM is literally interfering with the game (as seen by Ubi's AC2 fiasco) then it's pretty clear that some of these security measures are becoming a problem to the games they're trying to protect.

[QUOTE="The_Capitalist"]

[QUOTE="flashn00b"]

I personally find that Steamworks is an infinitely better DRM than any other known method.

flashn00b

You blind? Crackers get through that DRM more easily than a hot knife through butter. Steamworks was originally conceived to prevent people from reselling their games, not to prevent crackers.

I do know that piracy is stil persistent for those games, but hey, it isn't as anger-inducing as SecuROM.

True, because Steam is DRM disguised as a service. In return for restricted user rights, the player gets ZOMG STEAM ACHIEVEMENTS AND COMMUNITY FEATURES! GASP!

[QUOTE="ZIMdoom"]

Maybe you don't understand the real situation. According to PC users that post here, none of them have ever illegally copied anything ever. In fact, according to them, there is hardly an PC piracy AT ALL and therefore their rights to play any game they want any way or any time they want are being violated unfairly and for no reason.

The_Capitalist

Oh, how naive you are. Then explain how 250,000 people jumped on the Mass Effect 2 torrents when it released? "If there is hardly any PC piracy."

Hey, if the makers of Mass Effect 2 actually made good games, people would buy them. Clearly they are lazy devs who are now just whining that not enough people bought their game.

p.s. I'm using actual PC user comments in a sarcastic way to agree with the original poster.

It's basically been proven time and time again that games with less DRM do better in the industry.

Just look at SoaSE. absolutely no marketing from a previously unknown developer, and they sold over half a million.

Bad Company 2 has more players on PC than both consoles combined, and only requires that you have an EA account while online.

Steam anyone?Steam does all my DRM for me, online or off. I don't even need a CD key.

Publishers just need to learn that piracy is inevitable, and screwing over legitimate customers is not the right answer.

[QUOTE="ferret-gamer"]i still cant play read alert 3 online because of the secuROM so i have reason to not like it.The_Capitalist

I never had a problem with SecuROM. Just disable Daemon Tools or whatever disk emulator tool you have running before playing, should work fine.

It's basically been proven time and time again that games with less DRM do better in the industry.

Just look at SoaSE. absolutely no marketing from a previously unknown developer, and they sold over half a million.

Bad Company 2 has more players on PC than both consoles combined, and only requires that you have an EA account while online.

Steam anyone?Steam does all my DRM for me, online or off. I don't even need a CD key.

Publishers just need to learn that piracy is inevitable, and screwing over legitimate customers is not the right answer.

Vaasman

Prove it. How does "less DRM" equate to more sales? People will pirate it regardless of how much (or how little) DRM a game has.

Bad Company 2 is thriving because people actually need to buy the game to enjoy the multiplayer. The multiplayer portion is protected by unique CD keys and EA accounts.

Steam is hardly the best DRM. I go with it, the community features are excellent, but I am aware of its flaws, particularly in how it takes away my right to resell my game as I see fit.

[QUOTE="The_Capitalist"]

[QUOTE="ZIMdoom"]

Maybe you don't understand the real situation. According to PC users that post here, none of them have ever illegally copied anything ever. In fact, according to them, there is hardly an PC piracy AT ALL and therefore their rights to play any game they want any way or any time they want are being violated unfairly and for no reason.

Oh, how naive you are. Then explain how 250,000 people jumped on the Mass Effect 2 torrents when it released? "If there is hardly any PC piracy."

Hey, if the makers of Mass Effect 2 actually made good games, people would buy them. Clearly they are lazy devs who are now just whining that not enough people bought their game.

p.s. I'm using actual PC user comments in a sarcastic way to agree with the original poster.

[QUOTE="flashn00b"]

[QUOTE="The_Capitalist"]

You blind? Crackers get through that DRM more easily than a hot knife through butter. Steamworks was originally conceived to prevent people from reselling their games, not to prevent crackers.

The_Capitalist

I do know that piracy is stil persistent for those games, but hey, it isn't as anger-inducing as SecuROM.

True, because Steam is DRM disguised as a service. In return for restricted user rights, the player gets ZOMG STEAM ACHIEVEMENTS AND COMMUNITY FEATURES! GASP!

What does steam actually restrict users from doing? Installing the game on a friends computer so they can play together? Sorry but Steam is the best digital distribution method out there, i have never had any problems with it and i have been using it since the release of half life 2. I buy more games off steam then i do at retail because of its reliability and convinence.

[QUOTE="ZIMdoom"]

[QUOTE="The_Capitalist"]

Oh, how naive you are. Then explain how 250,000 people jumped on the Mass Effect 2 torrents when it released? "If there is hardly any PC piracy."

blue_hazy_basic

Hey, if the makers of Mass Effect 2 actually made good games, people would buy them. Clearly they are lazy devs who are now just whining that not enough people bought their game.

p.s. I'm using actual PC user comments in a sarcastic way to agree with the original poster.

So because his post, which was clearly sarcasm, doesn't agree with your opinion, he MUST be a fanboy?!

I don't mind DRM, just poorly implemented DRM. Securom made my copy of DOW unplayable. I even did a clean format to my hard drive and it stlil kept conflicting with something, though I could never figure out what it was. I don't mind Steam because it hasn't given me any problems and it has an offline mode.

Ubi's new DRM system just sucks though. Even though it's rare, I do occasionally lose internet connectivity. Not being able to play a game I legally bought if/when my internet goes down = total fail.

Steam is hardly the best DRM. I go with it, the community features are excellent, but I am aware of its flaws, particularly in how it takes away my right to resell my game as I see fit.The_Capitalist

Haha, oh wow. Get off your high horse already.

People like you who participate in the buying and selling of used games are just as bad for the industry as pirates are.

[QUOTE="The_Capitalist"]Steam is hardly the best DRM. I go with it, the community features are excellent, but I am aware of its flaws, particularly in how it takes away my right to resell my game as I see fit.Velocitas8

Haha, oh wow. Get off your high horse already.

People like you who participate in the buying and selling of used games are just as bad for the industry as pirates are.

Sure. You can claim that libraries are doing the same thing to writers.

The right of resale is protected under the first sale doctrine, Title 17, Chapter 109 of the United States Code.

Console gamers get to sell and resell, oh why did it have to happen to PC games?

They are better way to combat piracy, such as to release your games on Steam. :)Stevo_the_gamer

Oh, Steam, Steam, Steam! That is all I hear from you people. Steam is a great platform for distributing games, but it does not prevent piracy whatsoever. We need to alter people's behavior, that is what we need.

Sure. You can claim that libraries are doing the same thing to writers.

The right of resale is protected under the first sale doctrine, Title 17, Chapter 109 of the United States Code.

Console gamers get to sell and resell, oh why did it have to happen to PC games?

The_Capitalist

It's legal, yes. Doesn't mean you aren't part of the problem.

[QUOTE="The_Capitalist"]Sure. You can claim that libraries are doing the same thing to writers.

The right of resale is protected under the first sale doctrine, Title 17, Chapter 109 of the United States Code.

Console gamers get to sell and resell, oh why did it have to happen to PC games?

Velocitas8

It's legal, yes. Doesn't mean you aren't part of the problem.

I agree somewhat. But let's say that publishers start allowing people to resell their licenses and take a cut of the resale value. Then, publishers get a small slice off every digital resale.

But, publishers refuse to go along with even this simple method.

I really hate this mentality

"Lets treat everyone like criminals, because all of them are probably criminals anyway"

DRM may not wreck everybody's gaming experience, but it is a matter of principle that we don't buy games with aggressive DRM built into the software. It's a way of saying "when I buy a game, it's my property and I don't have to answer to you every time I load it up".

[QUOTE="Stevo_the_gamer"]They are better way to combat piracy, such as to release your games on Steam. :)The_Capitalist

Oh, Steam, Steam, Steam! That is all I hear from you people. Steam is a great platform for distributing games, but it does not prevent piracy whatsoever. We need to alter people's behavior, that is what we need.

[QUOTE="The_Capitalist"]Steam is hardly the best DRM. I go with it, the community features are excellent, but I am aware of its flaws, particularly in how it takes away my right to resell my game as I see fit.Velocitas8

Haha, oh wow. Get off your high horse already.

People like you who participate in the buying and selling of used games are just as bad for the industry as pirates are.

No they aren't.

Buying a used game is not equivalent to pirating a game. :|

[QUOTE="Stevo_the_gamer"]They are better way to combat piracy, such as to release your games on Steam. :)The_Capitalist

Oh, Steam, Steam, Steam! That is all I hear from you people. Steam is a great platform for distributing games, but it does not prevent piracy whatsoever. We need to alter people's behavior, that is what we need.

Well, let's be honest here: nothing really prevents piracy. A CD check or CD-Key will prevent casual piracy, sure, but the schemes they've used beyond that have proven ineffective time and time again at standing in the way of the types who practically treat piracy as a hobby. Hell, I've even heard that many MULTIPLAYER games have underground communities where pirates are able to play against each other..even making your game multiplayer-only will not prevent piracy.

Steam IS the best thing to happen in the war against piracy, imo. Not because it prevents illegal copying of games directly, but because it provides many incentives for making a legal purchase (unified community, integrated friends system with text+voice chat, game stats tracking, achievements, automatic updates on ALL games, Steam Cloud, the freedom to log into your account anywhere in the world and be able to download+play with no hassle.)

secuROM doesn't allow me to install my copy of oblivion goty edition:? I wouldnt have this problem if i pirated the game.

No they aren't.

Buying a used game is not equivalent to pirating a game. :|metroidfood

Morally, I'd argue that it is.

A potential retail sale lost to the used game market is equivalent to a potential retail sale lost to piracy.

If you're buying a used title, NONE of the money in that purchase is going to the people who worked hard to make that game. Same thing happens with counterfeiters.

Yet all these anti-DRM PC gamers scream like spoiled children, especially those who pirate games themselves on a regular basis! They are causing the very problem they claim to be protesting against!

Anyone agree? Does everyone see the logic in my argument? A majority of these anti-DRM folks are lying hypocrites, sucking the life out of PC gaming as we know it. They expect to play games for free, and raise bloody hell when their actions cause DRM to be instituted into games.

It's disgusting. I know DRM is not the solution, but seeing how an estimated 83% of PC gamers pirate games, a lot of these anti-DRM folks are clearly hypocrites. HYPOCRITES!

...

The_Capitalist

[QUOTE="ferret-gamer"]i still cant play read alert 3 online because of the secuROM so i have reason to not like it.The_Capitalist

I never had a problem with SecuROM. Just disable Daemon Tools or whatever disk emulator tool you have running before playing, should work fine.

Because of Securom, Fallout 3, Crysis Warhead and STALKER: Call of Pripyat had issues with programs that came preinstalled on my comp. >_>

secuROM doesn't allow me to install my copy of oblivion goty edition:? I wouldnt have this problem if i pirated the game.

MFDOOM1983

[QUOTE="metroidfood"]No they aren't.

Buying a used game is not equivalent to pirating a game. :|Velocitas8

Morally, I'd argue that it is.

A potential retail sale lost to the used game market is equivalent to a potential retail sale lost to piracy.

If you're buying a used title, NONE of the money in that purchase is going to the people who worked hard to make that game. Same thing happens with counterfeiters.

[QUOTE="MFDOOM1983"]

secuROM doesn't allow me to install my copy of oblivion goty edition:? I wouldnt have this problem if i pirated the game.

ferret-gamer

[QUOTE="metroidfood"]No they aren't.

Buying a used game is not equivalent to pirating a game. :|Velocitas8

Morally, I'd argue that it is.

A potential retail sale lost to the used game market is equivalent to a potential retail sale lost to piracy.

If you're buying a used title, NONE of the money in that purchase is going to the people who worked hard to make that game. Same thing happens with counterfeiters.

I also don't see a list of developers complaining about used consoles sales. PC piracy on the other hand......