Any one who thinks Bioware has "fallen" is utterly clueless.

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edidili

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#201 edidili
Member since 2004 • 3449 Posts

No, it is RPG elistist that settle..........they believe that RPG elements are good, even when they can be deterimental. texasgoldrush

RPG elements are not good only when they're tacked on as an afterthough in a shooter like ME or in a hack & slash game like DA2. Yeah maybe Bioware need to remove rpg elements from their games now, they probably don't know how to make a rpg anymore or just don't want to bother.

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argetlam00

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#202 argetlam00
Member since 2006 • 6573 Posts

I can't say I haven't enjoyed modern Bioware games, but as far as RPGs goes their decline is pretty obvious. Any RPG gamer with more than a decade of experience with the genre will agree:

Bioware

RyuRanVII

I played all those games (expect DA2, comon who has?) and IMO KOTOR is the best game on that list. I just couldn't get into Baldurs Gate that much, maybe cause I played it when I was too young.

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argetlam00

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#203 argetlam00
Member since 2006 • 6573 Posts

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"][QUOTE="texasgoldrush"]In fact, looking back Baldur's Gate and KOTOR storytelling pales in comaprison in regards to relevance than Mass Effects writing.texasgoldrush
Are you f*cking serious? :lol:

BGI, BGII, NWN, and KOTOR are just fantasy tales, they are great fantasy tales, but if you compare their plotlines to ones of the newer games, they pale in comparision to the maturity and willingness to explore the human condition. Take ME2 Overlord for example, nothing in the earlier games come close to the emotional hieghts that DLC had.

I give Mass Effect credit in being able to construct a kick ass sci-fi universe. The story itself however is far weaker than KOTOR.

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texasgoldrush

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#204 texasgoldrush
Member since 2003 • 15246 Posts
[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"]BGI, BGII, NWN, and KOTOR are just fantasy tales, they are great fantasy tales, but if you compare their plotlines to ones of the newer games, they pale in comparision to the maturity and willingness to explore the human condition. Take ME2 Overlord for example, nothing in the earlier games come close to the emotional hieghts that DLC had.foxhound_fox
Play Planescape: Torment or Vampire: The Masquerade Bloodlines or Xenogears.

are they made by Bioware? No. I was comapring past Bioware games to the newer ones. Not RPGs in general.
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texasgoldrush

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#205 texasgoldrush
Member since 2003 • 15246 Posts

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"][QUOTE="foxhound_fox"] Are you f*cking serious? :lol:argetlam00

BGI, BGII, NWN, and KOTOR are just fantasy tales, they are great fantasy tales, but if you compare their plotlines to ones of the newer games, they pale in comparision to the maturity and willingness to explore the human condition. Take ME2 Overlord for example, nothing in the earlier games come close to the emotional hieghts that DLC had.

I give Mass Effect credit in being able to construct a kick ass sci-fi universe. The story itself however is far weaker than KOTOR.

Thats because the story isn't finished yet. KOTOR was a stand alone game, th eMass Effect series is not. And the quest writing is far better in Mass Effect.
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argetlam00

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#206 argetlam00
Member since 2006 • 6573 Posts

[QUOTE="argetlam00"]

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"] BGI, BGII, NWN, and KOTOR are just fantasy tales, they are great fantasy tales, but if you compare their plotlines to ones of the newer games, they pale in comparision to the maturity and willingness to explore the human condition. Take ME2 Overlord for example, nothing in the earlier games come close to the emotional hieghts that DLC had.texasgoldrush

I give Mass Effect credit in being able to construct a kick ass sci-fi universe. The story itself however is far weaker than KOTOR.

Thats because the story isn't finished yet. KOTOR was a stand alone game, th eMass Effect series is not. And the quest writing is far better in Mass Effect.

Really/ Because I have found no memorable side quest in Mass Effec. Not a single one. All the good quests are either companion loyalty missions or the main quest. Thats all. Mass Effect 1 had a cool central plot with a great twist but Mass Effect 2 was garbage in the story department. Not even a single moment during that game I was interested about what was going on in the plot except literally the FINAL scripted mission.

Mass Effect 2 had better gunplay than Mass Effect 1 and more interesting side quests. However, its main story was total trash and the new characters were **** too.

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DarthJohnova

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#207 DarthJohnova
Member since 2010 • 4599 Posts
Just because you defend them does not make them better developers. The media can look at them however they want, we don't really care. We've played the games and our judgments are set in stone, I know mine are.DragonfireXZ95
Since when was your judgment better than anybody else's?
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TrapJak

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#208 TrapJak
Member since 2011 • 2933 Posts

Bioware has fallen ever since EA joined with them. It's not completely wrong to think so, it's people's opinion at the end of the day.

You're clueless if you think metascores helps your arguement.

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texasgoldrush

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#209 texasgoldrush
Member since 2003 • 15246 Posts

Bioware has fallen ever since EA joined with them. It's not completely wrong to think so, it's people's opinion at the end of the day.

You're clueless if you think metascores helps your arguement.

TrapJak
what people?....the minority vocal fans?
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argetlam00

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#210 argetlam00
Member since 2006 • 6573 Posts

[QUOTE="TrapJak"]

Bioware has fallen ever since EA joined with them. It's not completely wrong to think so, it's people's opinion at the end of the day.

You're clueless if you think metascores helps your arguement.

texasgoldrush

what people?....the minority vocal fans?

I fail to see how you would believe the people that don't think the game deserves a 90+ metascore would be the minority....Where you get your evidence from?

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padaporra

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#211 padaporra
Member since 2005 • 3508 Posts

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"][QUOTE="TrapJak"]

Bioware has fallen ever since EA joined with them. It's not completely wrong to think so, it's people's opinion at the end of the day.

You're clueless if you think metascores helps your arguement.

argetlam00

what people?....the minority vocal fans?

I fail to see how you would believe the people that don't think the game deserves a 90+ metascore would be the minority....Where you get your evidence from?


.
ME2 winning pretty much every user voted GOTY last year is a good indication of that, isn't it?

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texasgoldrush

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#212 texasgoldrush
Member since 2003 • 15246 Posts

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"][QUOTE="argetlam00"]

I give Mass Effect credit in being able to construct a kick ass sci-fi universe. The story itself however is far weaker than KOTOR.

argetlam00

Thats because the story isn't finished yet. KOTOR was a stand alone game, th eMass Effect series is not. And the quest writing is far better in Mass Effect.

Really/ Because I have found no memorable side quest in Mass Effec. Not a single one. All the good quests are either companion loyalty missions or the main quest. Thats all. Mass Effect 1 had a cool central plot with a great twist but Mass Effect 2 was garbage in the story department. Not even a single moment during that game I was interested about what was going on in the plot except literally the FINAL scripted mission.

Mass Effect 2 had better gunplay than Mass Effect 1 and more interesting side quests. However, its main story was total trash and the new characters were **** too.

No memorable Mass Effect sidequest? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qCs-Mnp_gI And once again, the ME2 characters are the plot, the plot is about getting them and the crew ready for the final mission. And the loyalty plotlines started in ME2 makes a big impact in ME3. So new characters like Thane an dmordin aren't good? Wow
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argetlam00

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#213 argetlam00
Member since 2006 • 6573 Posts

[QUOTE="argetlam00"]

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"] what people?....the minority vocal fans?padaporra

I fail to see how you would believe the people that don't think the game deserves a 90+ metascore would be the minority....Where you get your evidence from?


.
ME2 winning pretty much every user voted GOTY last year is a good indication of that, isn't it?

To be honest I was one of them. Opinions change over time as you get off the hype train a bit play some other games and then you think back and realize the game wasn't all that at all.

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johny300

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#214 johny300
Member since 2010 • 12496 Posts
I thought ME2 sucked and much prefer the first also the same with Dragon Age.
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texasgoldrush

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#215 texasgoldrush
Member since 2003 • 15246 Posts
[QUOTE="argetlam00"][QUOTE="texasgoldrush"] what people?....the minority vocal fans?padaporra
I fail to see how you would believe the people that don't think the game deserves a 90+ metascore would be the minority....Where you get your evidence from?

ME2 winning pretty much every user voted GOTY last year is a good indication of that, isn't it?

too add, research was shown that ME3 is the most anticipated game release as well. So much for fan backlash...the minority can't recognize its the minority.
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lundy86_4

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#216 lundy86_4
Member since 2003 • 62017 Posts

I don't think they've fallen at all. DAII sucked. Whilst the story was mildly interesting, the game, overall, wasn't great.

Mass Effect -- whilst it has evolved -- is still an excellent series. The Old Republic is simply fantastic. The first MMO that has ever truly engrossed me.

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DarkLink77

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#217 DarkLink77
Member since 2004 • 32731 Posts

And anyone who honestly believes that the quality of their games hasn't fallen significantly this gen is a f*cking dick-riding tool with a BioWare Boner.

No matter how many bad RPGs they play, no matter how bad a game BioWare makes (see: Dragon Age II), that boner just won't go down.

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argetlam00

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#218 argetlam00
Member since 2006 • 6573 Posts

[QUOTE="argetlam00"]

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"] Thats because the story isn't finished yet. KOTOR was a stand alone game, th eMass Effect series is not. And the quest writing is far better in Mass Effect.texasgoldrush

Really/ Because I have found no memorable side quest in Mass Effec. Not a single one. All the good quests are either companion loyalty missions or the main quest. Thats all. Mass Effect 1 had a cool central plot with a great twist but Mass Effect 2 was garbage in the story department. Not even a single moment during that game I was interested about what was going on in the plot except literally the FINAL scripted mission.

Mass Effect 2 had better gunplay than Mass Effect 1 and more interesting side quests. However, its main story was total trash and the new characters were **** too.

No memorable Mass Effect sidequest? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qCs-Mnp_gI And once again, the ME2 characters are the plot, the plot is about getting them and the crew ready for the final mission. And the loyalty plotlines started in ME2 makes a big impact in ME3. So new characters like Thane an dmordin aren't good? Wow

No, there were no new characters that were cool in Mass Effect 2. None of them impressed me. The rest were boring, whiny or simply unpleasant. Sorry, watched that vid and I see nothing but pointless droning. Whats so special about this quest again?

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texasgoldrush

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#219 texasgoldrush
Member since 2003 • 15246 Posts

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"][QUOTE="argetlam00"]

Really/ Because I have found no memorable side quest in Mass Effec. Not a single one. All the good quests are either companion loyalty missions or the main quest. Thats all. Mass Effect 1 had a cool central plot with a great twist but Mass Effect 2 was garbage in the story department. Not even a single moment during that game I was interested about what was going on in the plot except literally the FINAL scripted mission.

Mass Effect 2 had better gunplay than Mass Effect 1 and more interesting side quests. However, its main story was total trash and the new characters were **** too.

argetlam00

No memorable Mass Effect sidequest? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qCs-Mnp_gI And once again, the ME2 characters are the plot, the plot is about getting them and the crew ready for the final mission. And the loyalty plotlines started in ME2 makes a big impact in ME3. So new characters like Thane an dmordin aren't good? Wow

No, there were no new characters that were cool in Mass Effect 2. None of them impressed me. The rest were boring, whiny or simply unpleasant. Sorry, watched that vid and I see nothing but pointless droning. Whats so special about this quest again?

Guess you just don't pay attention than.....nevermind the fact that Shepard was trying to talk a traumatized woman out of suicide....whatever.
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padaporra

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#220 padaporra
Member since 2005 • 3508 Posts

[QUOTE="padaporra"]

[QUOTE="argetlam00"]

I fail to see how you would believe the people that don't think the game deserves a 90+ metascore would be the minority....Where you get your evidence from?

argetlam00


.
ME2 winning pretty much every user voted GOTY last year is a good indication of that, isn't it?

To be honest I was one of them. Opinions change over time as you get off the hype train a bit play some other games and then you think back and realize the game wasn't all that at all.


.
So your hype lasted 1 year? Interesting.
.
Anyway, It's a solid evidence. Or you think everyone changed their opinion too? Everyone that one year after ME2 was released sill thought it was the best game they played that year now think it sucks?

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Kiro0

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#221 Kiro0
Member since 2009 • 1176 Posts

[QUOTE="padaporra"][QUOTE="argetlam00"]I fail to see how you would believe the people that don't think the game deserves a 90+ metascore would be the minority....Where you get your evidence from?texasgoldrush
ME2 winning pretty much every user voted GOTY last year is a good indication of that, isn't it?

too add, research was shown that ME3 is the most anticipated game release as well. So much for fan backlash...the minority can't recognize its the minority.

Good to know supposedly being in the minority makes my opinion less valid. You are literally never going to get anywhere with this, I can only assume you just like the attention you get from threads like this, Texas.

You like Bioware, that's great. No one intends to stop you from liking Bioware. A number of people on this board, vocal or not, feel that they have had a noticeable decline in quality and you're not going to change anyone's mind. I'm personally far more interested to see where CDProjekt RED and Obsidian go in the future.

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Lucianu

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#222 Lucianu
Member since 2007 • 10347 Posts

.
So your hype lasted 1 year? Interesting.
.
Anyway, It's a solid evidence. Or you think everyone changed their opinion too? Everyone that one year after ME2 was released sill thought it was the best game they played that year now think it sucks?

padaporra

Who the f**k cares of all that? What is irrefutable fact is that no game will ever have universal praise, that is the only fact we can be certain of. Whether it's a vocal minority that dislikes the game (which i doubt because i'm not an idiot and am aware of how many humans there are on Earth) or not, cannot be proven.

Unless you waste a few years doing various meticulous studies.

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hanslacher54

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#223 hanslacher54
Member since 2007 • 3659 Posts

Oh man we got teh hardcore rpg gamerz in full force here!

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texasgoldrush

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#224 texasgoldrush
Member since 2003 • 15246 Posts

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"][QUOTE="padaporra"]ME2 winning pretty much every user voted GOTY last year is a good indication of that, isn't it? Kiro0

too add, research was shown that ME3 is the most anticipated game release as well. So much for fan backlash...the minority can't recognize its the minority.

Good to know supposedly being in the minority makes my opinion less valid. You are literally never going to get anywhere with this, I can only assume you just like the attention you get from threads like this, Texas.

You like Bioware, that's great. No one intends to stop you from liking Bioware. A number of people on this board, vocal or not, feel that they have had a noticeable decline in quality and you're not going to change anyone's mind. I'm personally far more interested to see where CDProjekt RED and Obsidian go in the future.

I deal in facts as well..........its a fact that Bioware has more clout and has better recieved games than Obsidian or CD Projekt. just because someone has an "opinion" doesn't make it true.
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texasgoldrush

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#225 texasgoldrush
Member since 2003 • 15246 Posts
I can't say I haven't enjoyed modern Bioware games, but as far as RPGs goes their decline is pretty obvious. Any RPG gamer with more than a decade of experience with the genre will agreeRyuRanVII
"Any RPG Gamer"....you're hilarious....so you speak for all RPG fans... I have TWO decades of RPG genre experience, and I say Bioware is not falling...suck on that. And what is the "y" axis on that chart...oh wait, its some guys stupid opinion.
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WTA2k5

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#226 WTA2k5
Member since 2005 • 3999 Posts

Saying a developer used their "secondary team" to make a terrible game, does not make the game not terrible, nor does it absolve them from having made a terrible game. I don't think they've fallen off, though. I loved DA:O, both Mass Effects, and I can't wait to get SWTOR and ME3.

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ShadowMoses900

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#227 ShadowMoses900
Member since 2010 • 17081 Posts

Bioware has done some good things like KOTOR and Mass Effect, I found the Dragon Age games to be kinda dissapointing, but overall they are good developers. But I don't think I'll be playing TOR because I don't like MMO games.

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Moriarity_

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#228 Moriarity_
Member since 2011 • 1332 Posts
Bioware hasn't fallen yet but they're on the way down imo.
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SciFiRPGfan

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#229 SciFiRPGfan
Member since 2010 • 694 Posts

And how am I switching crtierion? In fact, I disregard "RPG elements" as a criterion because it doesn't really matter, except for close minded RPG elitists. Characters helped ME2 reach its metascore....so characters are part of the metascore criterion. Had the third act of TW2 been has good as the first two acts, it would have been better than ME2. The game ran out of gas at the end, unlike the first game.texasgoldrush


Like I said by discussing various aspects of games without announcing or properly defining them in OP or at least in advance. Then, it's no wonder that this thread is rather confusing and little bit messy. At least in my opinion.

I mean, for example, if I wanted to make a thread defending particular game/s or at least why I like it, I would firstly clearly state my own preferences, when it comes to various gaming aspects. E.g. the most important things for me are non-linear story, big detailed levels, active NPCs that do different things in the games (sleep, walk, talk, cook), good facial animations of main characters and sections with different gameplay (boss battles, stealth missions, hacking / lockpicking minigames, vehicle sections). I don't care that much about about romances, combat in general, graphics (except for aforementioned animations), music, A.I. ... As a result, I find game X (let's say Fallout 2) to be a better game than game Y (let's say Deus Ex Invisible War) because ... and again I would state all of those gaming aspects, in which game X is in my opinion better than game Y and which are important for me.

Then anybody, who disagrees can state their own preferences or question my judgment in my own categories (Is Fallout 2's story really more non-linear than that of Deus Ex IW? Are NPCs in F2 really more active?). Providing that they do the former, we can discuss what "should be" the most important categories and why. This way, I could have a transparent discussion which does not confuse anyone and I (probably) do not risk that much, that somebody would call me a fanboy or hater.

Of course, if your goal is to present, that Bioware is a more successful company than it used to be, then you will have to focus more on sales numbers (because at the end of the day, those are the most important thing for business and survival of the company) and compare Bioware's current position on the market with the situation, that was few years ago, when they were still making "good games". However, under no circumstances I would use critical reception, because... Who cares? Surely not the forumites here - you won't have any decent discussion about that and most likely not even the companies themselves - unless bad reviews start to hurt their sales, which is not always the case.

In both cases though, I would recommend to make your OP / posts more personal (something is good / better / the best according to "you", not in general) and encompassing (you can't focus only on "some" aspects - e.g. characters and ignore others - e.g. level design, unless you state that you don't care about that aspect, which again makes your post more personal).

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Bigboi500

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#230 Bigboi500
Member since 2007 • 35550 Posts

You're brainwashed if you think being critically acclaimed is everything...or anything tbh.

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Krelian-co

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#231 Krelian-co
Member since 2006 • 13274 Posts

In fact, looking back Baldur's Gate and KOTOR storytelling pales in comaprison in regards to relevance than Mass Effects writing.texasgoldrush

oh god i've seen it all, what lvl of fanboy you have to be to even think this is true.

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Krelian-co

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#232 Krelian-co
Member since 2006 • 13274 Posts

[QUOTE="RyuRanVII"]I can't say I haven't enjoyed modern Bioware games, but as far as RPGs goes their decline is pretty obvious. Any RPG gamer with more than a decade of experience with the genre will agreetexasgoldrush
"Any RPG Gamer"....you're hilarious....so you speak for all RPG fans... I have TWO decades of RPG genre experience, and I say Bioware is not falling...suck on that. And what is the "y" axis on that chart...oh wait, its some guys stupid opinion.

bs you act like a teeneger, no one whose older than 20 is that fanboy of anything, even elss you having "20 years of rpgs experience"

i do, and bioware is falling, tthere is still small hope

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texasgoldrush

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#233 texasgoldrush
Member since 2003 • 15246 Posts
[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"]And how am I switching crtierion? In fact, I disregard "RPG elements" as a criterion because it doesn't really matter, except for close minded RPG elitists. Characters helped ME2 reach its metascore....so characters are part of the metascore criterion. Had the third act of TW2 been has good as the first two acts, it would have been better than ME2. The game ran out of gas at the end, unlike the first game.SciFiRPGfan
Like I said by discussing various aspects of games without announcing or properly defining them in OP or at least in advance. Then, it's no wonder that this thread is rather confusing and little bit messy. At least in my opinion. I mean, for example, if I wanted to make a thread defending particular game/s or at least why I like it, I would firstly clearly state my own preferences, when it comes to various gaming aspects. E.g. the most important things for me are non-linear story, big detailed levels, active NPCs that do different things in the games (sleep, walk, talk, cook), good facial animations of main characters and sections with different gameplay (boss battles, stealth missions, hacking / lockpicking minigames, vehicle sections). I don't care that much about about romances, combat in general, graphics (except for aforementioned animations), music, A.I. ... As a result, I find (let's say Fallout 2) to be a better game than (let's say Deus Ex Invisible War) because ... and again I would state all of those gaming aspects, in which game X is in my opinion better than game Y and which are important for me.Then anybody, who disagrees can state their own preferences or question my judgment in my own categories (Is Fallout 2's story really more non-linear than that of Deus Ex IW? Are NPCs in F2 really more active?). Providing that they do the former, we can discuss what "should be" the most important categories and why. This way, I could have a transparent discussion which does not confuse anyone and I (probably) do not risk that much, that somebody would call me a fanboy or hater. Of course, if your goal is to present, that Bioware is a more successful company than it used to be, then you will have to focus more on sales numbers (because at the end of the day, those are the most important thing for business and survival of the company) and compare Bioware's current position on the market with the situation, that was few years ago, when they were still making "good games". However, under no circumstances I would use critical reception, because... Who cares? Surely not the forumites here - you won't have any decent discussion about that and most likely not even the companies themselves - unless bad reviews start to hurt their sales, which is not always the case. In both cases though, I would recommend to make your OP / posts more personal (something is good / better / the best according to "you", not in general) and encompassing (you can't focus only on "some" aspects - e.g. characters and ignore others - e.g. level design, unless you state that you don't care about that aspect, which again makes your post more personal).

You can't ignore critical reception or awards either. And for the most part, the critics and the fans will agree. And different games are judged by different aspects. its stupid to call a Bioware a bad open world game because it doesn't try to be. What Mass Effect 2 and Bioware games in general accomplish the most is the storytelling and the characterization. I judge games that try to be open world on how well they do it, and I judge character driven games on how well they do it. I may not like a type of genre, but if it rates highly with fans and critics, I still call it great. Bioware haters can not see this fact.
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texasgoldrush

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#234 texasgoldrush
Member since 2003 • 15246 Posts

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"]In fact, looking back Baldur's Gate and KOTOR storytelling pales in comaprison in regards to relevance than Mass Effects writing.Krelian-co

oh god i've seen it all, what lvl of fanboy you have to be to even think this is true.

explain how BG and KOTOR is more relevant then? Its not KOTOR at the end of the day, a Star Wars story, that really does not go into issues of the human condition like Mass Effect does...and also the characters seem more like action heroes than real humans, because its star wars. It sJade Empire that truly started bringing the human element into their stories.
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meetroid8

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#235 meetroid8
Member since 2005 • 21152 Posts

Seriously....lets see. Their primary series, the Mass Effect series, is one of, if not the most critically acclaimed new franchise this gen .texasgoldrush

Being critically acclaimed doesn't necessarily equate toquality.

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Ballroompirate

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#236 Ballroompirate
Member since 2005 • 26695 Posts

Outside of DA2, Bioware has made some of the best games I've ever played. They are far from going down the path of Capcom and SE. The people who dislike Bioware they have their rights to not like them, but I'm glade that their opinions on the matter are in the minority and clearly shows you don't have to like or agree on peoples stupid opinions.

Since 1998 they've made 2 meh games, thats a pretty good track record.

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texasgoldrush

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#238 texasgoldrush
Member since 2003 • 15246 Posts

They cater to the casual crowd now.

The latest ME3 trailer pretty much confirms it.

Stringerboy
and yet the previews consistantly say that there is MORE RPG elements in the game than in ME2.
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lawlessx

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#239 lawlessx
Member since 2004 • 48753 Posts

bioware has fallen in my eyes thanks to mass effect 2.People that cling to how many awards a game has won to try and boost an arugement are the ones that are clueless. People praise bioware for the choices they made with mass effect 2 because it gave them much less to think about...which made the game easier to play and understand. I'm not just talking about the RPG elements...even how the story was written, presented, and how it was marketed annoyed the crap out of me. Is Mass Effect 2 a fun game? yeah sure it is,but watching people hide behind it's awards just bugs me.

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redmanifesto

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#240 redmanifesto
Member since 2011 • 77 Posts

lol umad bro

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SciFiRPGfan

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#242 SciFiRPGfan
Member since 2010 • 694 Posts

You can't ignore critical reception or awards either. And for the most part, the critics and the fans will agree.texasgoldrush
But what do you want to discuss about it? Yes, it is practically a fact that most of game critics loved Mass Effects, especially the second one. Does that make them good? In the eyes of those critics, yes. Also in the eyes of people who respect those critics. But that's about it.

Other people - and based on most of reactions here and in other forums where somebody tried to back their claims by some professional reviews, that's the majority here - will or won't think that Mass Effects were good games based on their own preferences, not because Kevin VanOrd or Adam Sessler said so. Besides, those reviewers aren't even here and wouldn't be able to defend their opinions should someone question them. So, it would come down to comparisons of opinions of participants anyway.

And different games are judged by different aspects. its stupid to call a Bioware a bad open world game because it doesn't try to be. What Mass Effect 2 and Bioware games in general accomplish the most is the storytelling and the characterization. I judge games that try to be open world on how well they do it, and I judge character driven games on how well they do it. I may not like a type of genre, but if it rates highly with fans and critics, I still call it great. Bioware haters can not see this fact.texasgoldrush
What's *stupid* about that? Just because developers did not intend to do something does not mean that other people who would have loved to see it in the game and vice versa should now say that game is good and they like it regardless.

I think it would be naive to expect, that people would firstly familiarize themselves with developer's goals and policies and then asses whether and how well that particular game accomplished those goals. That's up that that developer, not the players. For all we know, it may not even be in their interests to see some of those "goals" accomplished. I think that most people here just want to state their own preferences and speak about games that does or does not fall within them, not about preferences of someone else and whether and how well some games might have fallen within them.

But, if you can do that, more power to you. You just shouldn't expect other people to act that way too. After all, it may be completely against their interests.

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RyuRanVII

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#243 RyuRanVII
Member since 2006 • 4257 Posts

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"][QUOTE="RyuRanVII"]I can't say I haven't enjoyed modern Bioware games, but as far as RPGs goes their decline is pretty obvious. Any RPG gamer with more than a decade of experience with the genre will agreeKrelian-co

"Any RPG Gamer"....you're hilarious....so you speak for all RPG fans... I have TWO decades of RPG genre experience, and I say Bioware is not falling...suck on that. And what is the "y" axis on that chart...oh wait, its some guys stupid opinion.

bs you act like a teeneger, no one whose older than 20 is that fanboy of anything, even elss you having "20 years of rpgs experience"

i do, and bioware is falling, tthere is still small hope

Or maybe he never really liked RPGs, only hybrid-genre games like most of today's so called "RPGs". I seriously doubt any old-school RPG fan would be satisfied with the current state of the genre in the mainstream market.

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texasgoldrush

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#244 texasgoldrush
Member since 2003 • 15246 Posts

bioware has fallen in my eyes thanks to mass effect 2.People that cling to how many awards a game has won to try and boost an arugement are the ones that are clueless. People praise bioware for the choices they made with mass effect 2 because it gave them much less to think about...which made the game easier to play and understand. I'm not just talking about the RPG elements...even how the story was written, presented, and how it was marketed annoyed the crap out of me. Is Mass Effect 2 a fun game? yeah sure it is,but watching people hide behind it's awards just bugs me.

lawlessx
How is that clueless? Nevermind the fact that many of the awards are READER awards and that was the game that won the most READER awards. So its more than just critics. How does the choices give you less to think about? They don't, they give you more to think about because it didn't impact the game at hand, but a future one. And how is it different from other bioware games in how its presented other than future implications? It isn't. I don't like Uncharted 2 very much but I'd be a complete and total idiot to not say it was a great game. Awards and acclodes matter.
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xLittlekillx

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#245 xLittlekillx
Member since 2005 • 1833 Posts

Bioware is stagnating. They're too stuck on the formula with the quest hub and quests A, B, C crap. And they really need to stop dumbing down human thought by loading every game with "choices" that are basically "Hurr shuld i say teh good ting or teh bad ting *droooooooooool*"

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ActicEdge

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#246 ActicEdge
Member since 2008 • 24492 Posts

From what I played of ME2, it was a TPS. It wasn't bad but generic options from a dialogue wheel is not compelling.

Anyway you have a habit of thinking that disagreeing is wrong. people form an opinion independant of the media or others. If they think bioware has "fallen" its in their POV. They aren't speaking for everyone. Even the critics don't speak for "everyone".

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iammason

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#247 iammason
Member since 2004 • 4189 Posts
I love BioWare :) Don't like DA much though... the combat isn't my style. I like the fact that they are apparently taking ques from Skyrim for DA 3.
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NeonNinja

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#248 NeonNinja
Member since 2005 • 17318 Posts

[QUOTE="NeonNinja"]

[QUOTE="Firebird-5"]one only needs to glance at dragon age II. if you think they have not fallen then you are utterly cluelesssvenus97

What's hilarious is that prior to Dragon Age II's release, BioWare was bagging on Final Fantasy XIII and saying it's not an RPG. Oh how the mighty have fallen.

Gimme a new CD Projekt Red game. BioWare's done.

How exactly is DA2 not an RPG ? All I see is clueless assumptions from someone who hasn't played the game. What's so objectively bad about the game that makes it deserve all the hate it gets ? You see, with a lot of things there is the silent majority and vocal minority. The majority just likes the game and doesn't feel the need to prove to everyone that they are right. While the "cool" people, aka the vocal minority constantly barrage the game and they need to be right. Sounds to me like someone is insecure. I'd even go as far as saying that TW2 is no more an RPG than DA2. Tell me, what makes TW2 such a holy grail of RPGs, what does it have that DA2 doesn't ? Better graphics ? Sure. But, that's it. If the game looked like DA2 people wouldn't touch it. I finished it twice, and while it's a good game, it really isn't that much better than DA2. The combat doesn't require any "skill", just like in DA2. It's even cheaper, the prologue is hard as hell, while at chapter 2 you could just use your group finishers and the heliotrope sign to take care of everything almost instantly. The story and the characters are great, but so are they in DA2. The customization is almost non existent. All I see here is the celebration of the underdog. Which, trust me, will go away as soon as CD Projekt Red starts making serious money, and then they will instantly be called sell-outs.

WTF are you going on about? I said that BioWare made the statement that FINAL FANTASY IS NOT AN RPG. When did I say Dragon Age II is not an RPG?

All I see are clueless assumptions from someone who can't comprehend what he's reading.

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NeonNinja

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#249 NeonNinja
Member since 2005 • 17318 Posts

And anyone who honestly believes that the quality of their games hasn't fallen significantly this gen is a f*cking dick-riding tool with a BioWare Boner.

No matter how many bad RPGs they play, no matter how bad a game BioWare makes (see: Dragon Age II), that boner just won't go down.

DarkLink77

My man. Laying it all out on the line, just the way we like it.

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texasgoldrush

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#250 texasgoldrush
Member since 2003 • 15246 Posts

And anyone who honestly believes that the quality of their games hasn't fallen significantly this gen is a f*cking dick-riding tool with a BioWare Boner.

No matter how many bad RPGs they play, no matter how bad a game BioWare makes (see: Dragon Age II), that boner just won't go down.

DarkLink77
Here everybody.... An RPG Elitist, similiar to ones you see on RPG Codex, talking like complete idiots while they think they are smart, pissing how great the "classics" used to be.