Anyone care to explain why Unified GDDR 5 RAM is somehow magic tech now?

It is faster. Generally GDDR5 is for high end graphics cards whereas DDR3 is used for system memory, however in the PS4 GDDR5 will be used for the whole system (but unified, i.e. developers use as much or as little as they want for graphics/system memory)

And by being fast I mean it has a higher bandwidth (this is good) than DDR3, but higher latency too (latency is not good). DDR3 has lower bandwidth (this is bad) and lower latency (lower latency than GDDR5 is good). Reading on NeoGaf though it seems GDDR5 overall might be more beneficial for a gaming focussed system.

All last gen Hermits were super dismissive of the PS3's fairly advanced CPU and bluray disk capacity stating that the console didn't have enough ram for it to make a difference. Now with PS4 having more GDDR5 ram than even the most expensive GPU all of a sudden RAM doesn't matter anymore. 

Make up your mind Hermits. Does RAM matter or does it not? 

Pray_to_me

Nop. Only matters CPU and GPU power and integration between them. RAM is just a buffer to hold data before sending it to CPU and GPU.

[QUOTE="MonsieurX"][QUOTE="jhonMalcovich"]

Those 8gb of GDDR5 is just a storage for data to process, a buffer. It won´t pump up visual quality or FPS. The graphics depend on CPU and GPU. And PS4 CPU sucks and and GPU is only 1.84TFLOPS.

While my 4 year old video card, ATI 5870, is 2.72 TFLOPS. I don´t know what sort of optimizations they will be able to sqeaze out from PS4´s GPU, but the lack of processing power means "don´t expect miracles". This explains a lot why recent Killzone is locked in 30 fps.

jhonMalcovich

So ?

I'm guessing that his point was that because of the highly optimized nature of consoles, the way devs can code to the metal, 1.8 tflops on a console > 1.8 tflops on PC.

[QUOTE="jhonMalcovich"]

[QUOTE="MonsieurX"] TFLOPS indicates raw performance, not real worldWickerman777

So ?

I'm guessing that his point was that because of the highly optimized nature of consoles, the way devs can code to the metal, 1.8 tflops on a console > 1.8 tflops on PC.

[QUOTE="jhonMalcovich"]

[QUOTE="MonsieurX"] TFLOPS indicates raw performance, not real worldWickerman777

So ?

I'm guessing that his point was that because of the highly optimized nature of consoles, the way devs can code to the metal, 1.8 tflops on a console > 1.8 tflops on PC.

I desagree. Console 1.8 TFLOPS of GPU power = PC 1.8 TFLOPS of GPU power (well mostly equal)

With the optimization, consoles usually compensate their CPU´s lack of power, not GPU.

General applications on PC almost don´t consume GPU power, only CPU and RAM.

[QUOTE="Wickerman777"]

[QUOTE="jhonMalcovich"]

So ?

jhonMalcovich

I'm guessing that his point was that because of the highly optimized nature of consoles, the way devs can code to the metal, 1.8 tflops on a console > 1.8 tflops on PC.

I desagree, Console 1.8 TFLOPS of GPU power = PC 1.8 TFLOPS of GPU power (well mostly equal)

With the optimization, consoles usually compensate their CPU lack of power, not GPU.

General apllications on PC almost don´t consume GPU power, only CPU and RAM.

Well, whatever. I look at what Xbox 360 is able to do with its meager specs, .25 tflops, and what a PC with the same specs would do. Try to run Xbox 360 games on a PC of equal specs and it would go into a seizure.

[QUOTE="Martin_G_N"][QUOTE="MBirdy88"] 7 years ago it wasn't no, but 8gb is dirt cheap even with branded RAM for computers.... I have 16GB BRANDED ram which cost me £45... and thats straight to consumor not mass-produced. and like I said, the GDDR versions really make next to no difference... RAM stores instructions to be called by the CPU, the RAM can be as fast as it wants, but the CPU can only go so fast, instructions stored in RAM just wait idle until called. All this means is the PS3 as a system will be able to multitask great. Xbox had unfied RAM already ...... if its 8gb DDR3 there will be next to no difference. Just trying to point that fact out. RAM is such a minor thing to hype. 8 GB was a suprise, but tbh given how the previous consoles went, I would of been shocked and happy with 4GB. Now questioning if that 8gb ram is worth more than a cpu or gpu upgrade... I wouldnt be so sure.Wickerman777

For the thousandth time it's not a simple matter of GDDR3 vs GDDR5. Y'all need to stop forgetting about the custom hardware in the next Xbox that increases the bandwidth of the GDDR3. It takes it up to about 170 GB/s. That's slower but pretty darned close to GDDR5's 176 GB/s. PS4 has an advantage there but you guys are grossly exaggerating it.

[QUOTE="jhonMalcovich"]

[QUOTE="Wickerman777"]

 

I'm guessing that his point was that because of the highly optimized nature of consoles, the way devs can code to the metal, 1.8 tflops on a console > 1.8 tflops on PC.

Wickerman777

I desagree, Console 1.8 TFLOPS of GPU power = PC 1.8 TFLOPS of GPU power (well mostly equal)

With the optimization, consoles usually compensate their CPU lack of power, not GPU.

General apllications on PC almost don´t consume GPU power, only CPU and RAM.

Well, whatever. I look at what Xbox 360 is able to do with its meager specs, .25 tflops, and what a PC with the same specs would do. Try to run Xbox 360 games on a PC of equal specs and it would go into a seizure.

There were already thread that showed that a PC with similar specs regarding GPU ran games with the same quality and even better than XBOX 360.

 

I desagree, Console 1.8 TFLOPS of GPU power = PC 1.8 TFLOPS of GPU power (well mostly equal)

With the optimization, consoles usually compensate their CPU lack of power, not GPU.

General apllications on PC almost don´t consume GPU power, only CPU and RAM.

jhonMalcovich

Wrong completely wrong,in fact lower resolution in games,no AA lower quality textures are because of GPU conpenzation,on PC when you want more frames and your card doesn't give more at 1080p what to you do.? Lower detaill,lower resolution or turn of AA.

 1.84TF on consoles >>> 1.84TF on PC and i am not even bringing Windows into the fight which is a big hog of resources compare to consoles refine OS,in fact the xbox 720 is say to reserve 3GB for OS,because the word is that is windows 8 based.

All last gen Hermits were super dismissive of the PS3's fairly advanced CPU and bluray disk capacity stating that the console didn't have enough ram for it to make a difference. Now with PS4 having more GDDR5 ram than even the most expensive GPU all of a sudden RAM doesn't matter anymore. 

Make up your mind Hermits. Does RAM matter or does it not? 

Pray_to_me

It's not comparable to a PC GPU though.The PS4 has unified RAM. We don't know the full capabilities of the system yet and we're just going off what it could theoretically do on paper. 

[QUOTE="Wickerman777"]

[QUOTE="Martin_G_N"]There is a big speed difference between DDR3 and GDDR5. 68GB/s vs 176GB/s. And with 4GB, the PS4 would still have beaten the nextbox. Martin_G_N

For the thousandth time it's not a simple matter of GDDR3 vs GDDR5. Y'all need to stop forgetting about the custom hardware in the next Xbox that increases the bandwidth of the GDDR3. It takes it up to about 170 GB/s. That's slower but pretty darned close to GDDR5's 176 GB/s. PS4 has an advantage there but you guys are grossly exaggerating it.

Have you even done any reading on this? There are MULTIPLE articles out there explaining that memory bandwidth on the next Xbox will be 170 GB/s. Do a google search and learn something. Check out digital foundry, for example.

[QUOTE="jhonMalcovich"]

 

I desagree, Console 1.8 TFLOPS of GPU power = PC 1.8 TFLOPS of GPU power (well mostly equal)

With the optimization, consoles usually compensate their CPU lack of power, not GPU.

General apllications on PC almost don´t consume GPU power, only CPU and RAM.

tormentos

Wrong completely wrong,in fact lower resolution in games,no AA lower quality textures are because of GPU conpenzation,on PC when you want more frames and your card doesn't give more at 1080p what to you do.? Lower detaill,lower resolution or turn of AA.

 1.84TF on consoles >>> 1.84TF on PC and i am not even bringing Windows into the fight which is a big hog of resources compare to consoles refine OS,in fact the xbox 360 is say to reserve 3GB for OS,because the word is that is windows 8 based.

[QUOTE="jhonMalcovich"]

 

I desagree, Console 1.8 TFLOPS of GPU power = PC 1.8 TFLOPS of GPU power (well mostly equal)

With the optimization, consoles usually compensate their CPU lack of power, not GPU.

General apllications on PC almost don´t consume GPU power, only CPU and RAM.

tormentos

Wrong completely wrong,in fact lower resolution in games,no AA lower quality textures are because of GPU conpenzation,on PC when you want more frames and your card doesn't give more at 1080p what to you do.? Lower detaill,lower resolution or turn of AA.

 1.84TF on consoles >>> 1.84TF on PC and i am not even bringing Windows into the fight which is a big hog of resources compare to consoles refine OS,in fact the xbox 720 is say to reserve 3GB for OS,because the word is that is windows 8 based.

Wrong. GPU 1.84TF on consoles = GPU 1.84TF on PC if PC compensates this with its usually higher CPU clocks and CPU cache.

It's not magic tech. It's good RAM and 8GB of it is very good for the next Playstation. 

This topic is let's face it.....random stupid jelousy poking at PS fans for nothing. :roll:

All last gen Hermits were super dismissive of the PS3's fairly advanced CPU and bluray disk capacity stating that the console didn't have enough ram for it to make a difference. Now with PS4 having more GDDR5 ram than even the most expensive GPU all of a sudden RAM doesn't matter anymore. 

Make up your mind Hermits. Does RAM matter or does it not? 

Pray_to_me

The GPU and CPU can't handle more than a certain amount of ram.So a lot of that ram will have to be used in other areas

It's not magic tech. It's good RAM and 8GB of it is very good for the next Playstation. 

This topic is let's face it.....random stupid jelousy poking at PS fans for nothing. :roll:

clr84651

John Carmack

SaltyMeatballs

 who loves PC 

SaltyMeatballs

[QUOTE="Martin_G_N"][QUOTE="Wickerman777"]

 

For the thousandth time it's not a simple matter of GDDR3 vs GDDR5. Y'all need to stop forgetting about the custom hardware in the next Xbox that increases the bandwidth of the GDDR3. It takes it up to about 170 GB/s. That's slower but pretty darned close to GDDR5's 176 GB/s. PS4 has an advantage there but you guys are grossly exaggerating it.

Wickerman777

Have you even done any reading on this? There are MULTIPLE articles out there explaining that memory bandwidth on the next Xbox will be 170 GB/s. Do a google search and learn something. Check out digital foundry, for example.

[QUOTE="tormentos"]

[QUOTE="jhonMalcovich"]

 

I desagree, Console 1.8 TFLOPS of GPU power = PC 1.8 TFLOPS of GPU power (well mostly equal)

With the optimization, consoles usually compensate their CPU lack of power, not GPU.

General apllications on PC almost don´t consume GPU power, only CPU and RAM.

jhonMalcovich

Wrong completely wrong,in fact lower resolution in games,no AA lower quality textures are because of GPU conpenzation,on PC when you want more frames and your card doesn't give more at 1080p what to you do.? Lower detaill,lower resolution or turn of AA.

 1.84TF on consoles >>> 1.84TF on PC and i am not even bringing Windows into the fight which is a big hog of resources compare to consoles refine OS,in fact the xbox 720 is say to reserve 3GB for OS,because the word is that is windows 8 based.

Wrong. GPU 1.84TF on consoles = GPU 1.84TF on PC if PC compensates this with its usually higher CPU clocks and CPU cache.

Besides when you start up a game in Windows and go fullscreen, the OS´s gpu and cpu consumption goes to the background taking only small portions of CPU and good chunk of RAM. This is why PC needs bigger amounts of RAM than consoles. Because you can switch alt-tabbing in any moment from a game to OS without shutting down the game. When you turn a game fullscreen, basically almost all gpu resources are liberated from OS to the game, and when you alt-tabbing from the game, the game is the one who goes to the background releasing resouces for the OS. 

[QUOTE="Wickerman777"]

[QUOTE="Martin_G_N"]Yeah right. You mean the 32MB ESRAM that is magicly going to increase the bandwidth on 8GB of DDR3...dream on. And it's the slower DDR3 the X720 is using, not GDDR3...big difference. Since the RAM is used for graphics, speed is importent. Which is why no gaming GPU's today uses DDR3. MS is being cheap and prioritating Kinect and Apps. Sony chose GDDR5, and it is top of the line, only beaten by XDR RAM which is more expencive. Atleast the RAM won't be a bottleneck in the PS4 this time around.Martin_G_N

Have you even done any reading on this? There are MULTIPLE articles out there explaining that memory bandwidth on the next Xbox will be 170 GB/s. Do a google search and learn something. Check out digital foundry, for example.

You're right about it being DDR3, don't know why I wrote GDDR3. But anyway, The fact remains that the memory bandwidth will total 170 GB/s. Don't know what you mean by "short period." I imagine coders will access it far more than that. Some devs have already commented that they think it will work out just fine because most stuff doesn't need ultra-fast memory anyway. That which does they'll just code to run through the 32 megs of ESRAM. Is 8 gigs of GDDR5 RAM a better, albeit far more expensive, solution? Absolutely. I don't deny that for a moment. But a lot of people around here are quoting the 68 GB/s figure as though that's all there is to the story and it isn't. Sure, I'd rather have 8 gigs of GDDR5 in Xbox but the solution they've come up isn't a dealbreaker. It gives up some performance but makes a lot more sense from an economic point of view. As an Xbox fan it just ins't much of a concern to me. I believe devs will figure out how to make it work just fine. But as I've talked about a kzillion times around here the GPU rumored to be in the next Xbox disappoints me enormously. If it doesn't ship with a graphics processor better than that I probably won't get one.

Because even on PC's, the most any game will take to run is a little over 2 GB of DDR3 RAM.
Now the PS4, which have a far smaller OS RAM print on the memory than the bloated PoS Windows OS, has 8 GB of GDDR5 RAM to work with.

You can damage control all you want, saying it's unified. Or saying your PC can have 16 GB of peasantly DDR3 RAM...
Whatever the case is, this is good for even PC gaming. This means that in the least the PS4 won't hamper/consolise PC/console multiplats.

Imagine that you could seed an entire game in the 8 GB of GDDR5 ram alone...mind = blown.

[QUOTE="jhonMalcovich"]

 

I desagree, Console 1.8 TFLOPS of GPU power = PC 1.8 TFLOPS of GPU power (well mostly equal)

With the optimization, consoles usually compensate their CPU lack of power, not GPU.

General apllications on PC almost don´t consume GPU power, only CPU and RAM.

tormentos

Wrong completely wrong,in fact lower resolution in games,no AA lower quality textures are because of GPU conpenzation,on PC when you want more frames and your card doesn't give more at 1080p what to you do.? Lower detaill,lower resolution or turn of AA.

 1.84TF on consoles >>> 1.84TF on PC and i am not even bringing Windows into the fight which is a big hog of resources compare to consoles refine OS,in fact the xbox 720 is say to reserve 3GB for OS,because the word is that is windows 8 based.

In the console-world it is magic compared to what other consoles have/had :|

This thread made my head hurt from the stupidity. I can post some intelligent things but it's no longer worth it.

Muppets always cling to buzz words.

Then there's also the fact that it's not only 4 times the amount of ram the Wii U carries but it's also a whole lot faster.

I have a feeling a lot of this RAM is just so SONY can expand on their already large OS.

Because not a lot of them know what it actually is and they think because it was speculated as 4GB and now it's suddenly 8GB that it means far better graphics. They think somehow it pulls magical power out of somewhere and I can see it now, when it releases alongside the 720 and the 720 has 4GB then the 8GB of RAM will become then new cell for cows to gloat about. 

They will say it has some untapped power and that it's far greater than the 720 yet multiplats will all look the same again. 

seanmcloughlin

You dont know anything about the 8gb DDR5 huh? Sony didnt just put it in their system because they wanted too..Developers was requesting  it and Sony listen and gave them what they wanted...who is going to spend thousand of dollars on PC when you can get a similar experience or better on the PS4..

The real question is why do non-developers care so much about the hardware? I mean it's understandable to a degree when you're comparing Micro$ony to Nintendo, but when the consoles are relatively equal in power... All that matters is what games will come out. Silenthps

I would absolutely love to see MS announce the 720/infinity had 8GB unified DDR5 RAM, just to see the reaction around here :lol:

seanmcloughlin

Its faster memory than DDR3 plain and simple. Which gives PS4 along with its more powerful GPU a significant edge over 720

[QUOTE="nextgenjoke"][QUOTE="MBirdy88"]

Just wondering, I have never seen anybody building gaming machines have an orgasm over RAM before... and this whole "zomg unfied GDDR5 is soooo much faster than DDR3 RAM". I don't know a single person who has ever really cared when they went from DDR 2 to DDR3 ect.

Its like the most minamal and cheap upgrade to a system you can find.

Damage control? no, I don't care, I'm leaning towards a PS4 infact.

But cows, or System Warriors in general.... what do you actually know of this pretty standard tech to make out that this will make games amazing over the next xbox which will likely have gddr3 8gb?

you realize the version differents are small right....

seanmcloughlin

The reason they likely have it is because of all the new background features they're adding. You will need more memory to stream crap in the background while gaming. 

[QUOTE="seanmcloughlin"]

[QUOTE="nextgenjoke"] 8GB unified is better than 4 gb cpu 4 gb cpu split lol. glad sony is finally utilizing unified memory architecture instead of split.Douevenlift_bro

The reason they likely have it is because of all the new background features they're adding. You will need more memory to stream crap in the background while gaming. 

Doesnt matter if its a seperate chip still needs RAM

[QUOTE="Master_ShakeXXX"]

[QUOTE="jg4xchamp"] So what does Ram influence in terms of game design? honest question. seanmcloughlin

More textures, I think.

higher res textures, but it doesn't really change much. Everything just gets shinier and you will finally have high res textures. 

I'm no tech wiz by any means compared to some ppl that are legitimate, but I do know that faster and more ram equals less loading times, loading parts that stop the game in its tracks.

Things like editing should also be more effective as RAM tends to take up a lot on that front. Not completely sure as of why user customization takes up so much RAM but I do know that its a good part of it. It probably has to do with a mix of large data and not as good reading of it with slower RAM. This also comes into multitasking as faster and more RAM makes multiple things running in game with large amounts of data at once being crammed in there much easier. The bottleneck for those kinds of things is much smaller than before.

How they will really use it in question is the main thing though. For the most part it is just minor convenience imo for many genres of games. It will make everything better but won't be substantial overall.

Ram is the main reason most games ended up running better on 360 compared to PS3, especially the heavy/open world ones. 8GB RAM GDDR5 is indeed a huge leap.

It's not magic tech, and I don't recall anyone saying that it was. It's in just about every GPU now.

What I can say is having faster system memory, assuming it has the bus to handle that speed, is a big deal when it comes to gaming.

Saying otherwise reeks of butthurt.

more VRAM or shared RAM is good for holding high res textures, the thing is you need  good GPU specs to render those textures in acceptable FPS plus some advanced visual effects. PS4´s 1.82 TFLOP GPU isn´t enough. With that GPU you can expect current gen 1080p graphics at 30 fps with visual effects set to medium, that is, 3-year old PC graphics.

[QUOTE="seanmcloughlin"]

[QUOTE="Master_ShakeXXX"]

More textures, I think.

Douevenlift_bro

higher res textures, but it doesn't really change much. Everything just gets shinier and you will finally have high res textures. 

I hope a really good dev gets on board and makes an exclusive open world game. What we really lacked last gen was the world reacting to what you did in games such as Skyrim. The additional RAM should allow for more events to happen independent of you or to react and persist to your actions. An example i saw on another forum would be you smashing up a street in a game like GTA and there would be clean up crews or something for a time afterwards. Something that took this concept and used it to improve immersion, the story or even the gameplay could be brilliant especially to RPGs. I truly hope one day we get to the extent that every person's game is entirely different because of the different actions and choices we made.hoosier7

[QUOTE="hoosier7"]I hope a really good dev gets on board and makes an exclusive open world game. What we really lacked last gen was the world reacting to what you did in games such as Skyrim. The additional RAM should allow for more events to happen independent of you or to react and persist to your actions. An example i saw on another forum would be you smashing up a street in a game like GTA and there would be clean up crews or something for a time afterwards. Something that took this concept and used it to improve immersion, the story or even the gameplay could be brilliant especially to RPGs. I truly hope one day we get to the extent that every person's game is entirely different because of the different actions and choices we made.RR360DD

anywayz.... I give it about 2-3 years before the average mid-ranged PC will have 16gb DDR4 + 8gb GDDR6 and crytek makes a cryengine4 game that'll make those PC's explode and consoles will yet again be left in the dustSilenthps

Doubt it. In 2-3 years the average mid-range GPU will probably have 3 max 4Gb GDDR6. In 2-3 years most probably only the $1000 or whatever GPU of turn will have 8Gb.

Regarding the topic. I doubt people really understand how memory affects graphics. While textures aren't a big burden in performance they still have an impact and I doubt that something with a power similar to a 7850 will benefit from VRAM past 3Gb while speculating the other advancements in graphics that will occur with a gen leap and it will have to sustain along side.

I don't think the PS4 is magic tech.

I think it's the equivalent of a mid-range PC, just pre-built and more fun to use and better supported.

I don't think the PS4 is magic tech.

I think it's the equivalent of a mid-range PC, just pre-built and more fun to use and better supported.

LazySloth718