Are cows scared of the 360 price cut?

$50 isn't substantial. To me it's never been about the X360s price, it's all the extras that MS charges for that I don't like. And that's more about the principle than the actual cost. I don't like proprietary systems that use proprietary equipment. I don't like Microsofts agenda of making paying to play online the industry standard. I also don't like that they haven't fixed the RROD.
EmperorSupreme

I don't really care about the rest (maybe I should, but I don't), but the big point to me here is the RROD. The Wii would be jolly-stomping no matter what, but had it not been for the never-ending RROD saga, Sony would be buried right now.

NO cows are not scared rather Micro$oft is, that's why they are price cutting.EstralS

The PS2 cut it's price repeatedly... when was it ever scared of anything?

360 is being outpaced because MS is giving up on it. There also is only going to be an announcement of a new console. Then you have production and advertising, then the release. It won't be available until 2010.

Since MS is cutting it's price, not permenantly fixing faulty hardware, well into the product life cycle, and being beaten about the head and shoulder. This move fits perfectly into the beginnings of a phase out of their product. The product is a dog (in relation to market share and growth) and needs to be sustained just long enough to keep the cashflow river flowing until the next model is released.

effthat

Are you high? The 360 isn't being GIVEN UP ON!! Only in the Cow's Utopian Dream World. Man, when are you guys going to quit making it up as you go along? They already stated why they could lower the price: they hardware they're putting in is CHEAPER than the current hardware. They're passing that savings onto their customers!

This logic you're talking about is ridiculous. Is this how they do things at Sorny? Is that what you are explaining? We already know that Sorny has been practically giving away their PS3 because the cost of blu-ray is so high, that they had to lower the price in order to compete. Nobody would pay for an $800-$1000 PS3!

If anyone has given up on anything, it's Sorny on their PS3 AND their fanbase!

Stop being Sorny's toady.

Not sure why I'm getting in the middle of this since I own both systems and I think sales arguments are kind of childish, but his post about inventory still holds true even with you 'proof'. Sony is reporting sales. This is sales to retail, which I think anyone with common sense would understand. It is not possible to know sales to consumer. How could any company possibly know whether or not I just bought a PS3 at a mom and pop toy store in the middle of Wyoming? Sales to them are the retailers. That is there customer.

All that being said his argument holds. PS3 was filling the retail stores with inventory in 2007, while 360 was already over saturated.

At the end of the day who cares though. They are selling pretty much equally. 360 probably sold a little better in 2007 and PS3 is now selling a little bit better in 2008.

None of this affects my enjoyment of both consoles.

-------------------------------------------------------

When Sony reported their 2007 numbers, they made a point of saynig that all their sales numbers are "sales" and not shipped. Now, this always starts a massive debate among fanboys, casuals and noobs. But essentially, shipped means consoles that Sony made and shipped to distribution warehouses around the world. Sold, for Sony, means a consoles is purchases by a retailer from one of their distributors, and therefore is an actual unit sitting in stores.

Yes, MS overstaturated stored with consoles which hurt them a bit in 2007 in NA. But that doesn't address total world wide sales. This year at that same time they kept talkinga bout shortages hurting their sales in NA. There is always an excuse.

But the fact remains, that sales numbers ALWAYS balance out. So the arguement that we can't believe the official reported numbers is completely ridiculous. Those numbers don't lie, and if they are inflated one quarter it will impact the next quarter. There is always going to be balance. Stores don't just keep ordering more and more consoles if the ones on the shelves aren't moving.

So you are clearly wrong. Sony outsold the 360 world wide in 2007. This in not debatable. PS3 is selling even better in 2008, as it has already caught up to the 360 in Europe, despite a late launch, and has beaten the 360 in its main market 4/5 months this year.

This isn't a matter of opinion, but actual fact.

I don't think cows or Sony should be scared of something MS needs to do.

it's the console that's selling the least. they have to reduce the price. Sony is in a comfortable position right now, to time it's own price drop, a position they didn't have one year ago, since that was the year Sony had to do something about the sales of the PS3.

[QUOTE="Blackbond"]

[QUOTE="EVOLV3"]Microsoft seems to be the one afraid of Sony. The 360 is 3rd every month in every region, Microsoft is trying to do whatever they can to get themselves back into the competitionkuu2

Sony was doing the same thing when their console was $600 and was getting outsold by the GBA in the States while doing miserable in Japan as well. Sony have cut their console in price by $200. The fastest price cut for any major competitor in history.

People seem to forget that the PS3 had a price cut its first full year of selling.

Who is the desparate company again?

It has already been discussed that the Xbox set a record for the fastest price cut in less than 6 months...beating the PS3s 8 months record.

Price is one of MANY qualities in which business compete. It is NEVER a good idea to get innto a pricing war unless you know you can win and then bump the prices back up when you are the only player on the field. This is not a viable scenario in the console world.

Sony has no obligations to cut price in order to "compete".

effthat

You can't shift demand based on price, you can move across the demand curve. So if 3 million more American's are willing and able to buy a 360 at under $300 but not at $350, then now they will purchase one. There is always a price for someone. Like I'm sure there are many people that say, well if the PS3 was $299, I'd get one, but also we must think dollars and cents for Sony. Sony isn't pulling a profit in the games industry right now. Between liscensing, hardware, and XBL, Microsoft is profiting. Sony had poor planning on this system and they are paying for it right now. Sure, MS is having hardware issues and are paying for that, but they are still selling systems. Plus, they are close to integrating the CPU/GPU, cutting RROD and making 360's cheaper to make in the process.

Not sure why I'm getting in the middle of this since I own both systems and I think sales arguments are kind of childish, but his post about inventory still holds true even with you 'proof'. Sony is reporting sales. This is sales to retail, which I think anyone with common sense would understand. It is not possible to know sales to consumer. How could any company possibly know whether or not I just bought a PS3 at a mom and pop toy store in the middle of Wyoming? Sales to them are the retailers. That is there customer.

All that being said his argument holds. PS3 was filling the retail stores with inventory in 2007, while 360 was already over saturated.

At the end of the day who cares though. They are selling pretty much equally. 360 probably sold a little better in 2007 and PS3 is now selling a little bit better in 2008.

None of this affects my enjoyment of both consoles.

-------------------------------------------------------

When Sony reported their 2007 numbers, they made a point of saynig that all their sales numbers are "sales" and not shipped. Now, this always starts a massive debate among fanboys, casuals and noobs. But essentially, shipped means consoles that Sony made and shipped to distribution warehouses around the world. Sold, for Sony, means a consoles is purchases by a retailer from one of their distributors, and therefore is an actual unit sitting in stores.

Yes, MS overstaturated stored with consoles which hurt them a bit in 2007 in NA. But that doesn't address total world wide sales. This year at that same time they kept talkinga bout shortages hurting their sales in NA. There is always an excuse.

But the fact remains, that sales numbers ALWAYS balance out. So the arguement that we can't believe the official reported numbers is completely ridiculous. Those numbers don't lie, and if they are inflated one quarter it will impact the next quarter. There is always going to be balance. Stores don't just keep ordering more and more consoles if the ones on the shelves aren't moving.

So you are clearly wrong. Sony outsold the 360 world wide in 2007. This in not debatable. PS3 is selling even better in 2008, as it has already caught up to the 360 in Europe, despite a late launch, and has beaten the 360 in its main market 4/5 months this year.

This isn't a matter of opinion, but actual fact.

ZIMdoom

[QUOTE="-GhostMLD-"]

Right now in Europe/Asia the PS3 apparently outsells the 360 by about 20-30k per week. In japan the gap is 10k per week. In NA sales are roughly even.

With a $299 Pro, and im guessing a $199-$229 Arcade and $399 Elite (same price as 40gigPS3), the value is just too much to ignore.

Working class families will opt for the cheap Arcade, not caring for the missing bells and whistles. The hardcore gamers will buy an Elite over a 40 gig PS3. Think about it, its 3x harddrive space, component cables, HDMI cable, Headset, and ethernet cable thrown in. ANd the regualr gamers will see a $100 gap between the Pro and 40gig PS3. Many consumers are uninformed so many will disregard the bluray and wifi. ALl they will see is a $100 gap, which one will they choose? WHich one will the parents choose, a $299 360 or a $399 PS3?

Point: This will obviously give 360 sales a boost, which will also help counteract 360 lagging sales in japan/europe. This will make worldwide PS3 sales not gain any meaningful ground on 360's worldwide installed base. And its fairly certain that PS3 wont drop its price, as SOny clearly wants to make a profit, they are loosing enough money as it is on PS3.

jknight5422

A lower price cut isn't going to curb the hate from Europe/Japan. Europeans tend to hate Mr. Softy in general so the brand is not popular. Japan has this pride thing going about buying only their technology & nobody elses. It'll just have to be big in the US & if that can happen, then it'll spread to the rest of them. The Windows OS was the same way. It didn't depend heavily on Japan or Europe to grow into the megaloppolex that it is today.

is that why the IPod strongly outsells any japenese MP3 player there? :|

I always think of price cuts as more of a sign of weakness than of strength.supercubedude64

Sony dropped their price twice in less then 6 months. That's some serious weakness. :roll:

[QUOTE="guts32"]

So they are losing $130 now. Are you sure?

Anyways the article I cited actually addresses the new SKUs, be sure to actually read it before commenting on the date it was published. On principle, I agree that Sony is losing money on manufacturing. The question is how much. Yes, Sony has additional costs not associated with manufacturing such as shipping, advertising, ect., but it is misleading to actually say that for each PS3 they produce and sell they lose $130. Especially since there financial loses comes from their entire gaming division, not just the PS3. The source you use is incomplete and vague.

Lastly, I'm sure Sony cares about lowering manufacturing costs. They seem to have already cut them in half with the current SKUs. There have been rumors about future SKUs to further curb manufacturing costs. Besides software is where you make your money.

Blackbond

It wouldn't matter because you said they were breaking even in which they are not. When they sell a PS3 they are losing money and that is the bottom line which disproved your point of the PS3 not being sold at a loss.

I read your entire article. As I've highlighted the main portion of it where it says it costs $400 to manufacture. But Manufacturing costs aren't the only cost in getting a product on to the market like my link says and the other poster prior to me.

How is it misleading to say that Sony loses $130 for every PS3 they produce and sell? Sony said so themselves. My source is not incomplete and vague. Its more up to date then yours and it also has Sony's own input into it.

Jack Schofield crunches the numbers.

"On Sony's own figures, the games division made a loss of $130 for each PlayStation 3 shipped."

If Sony claims they are losing $130 on each PS3 shipped why the heck should I believe you? This is Sony's word over yours. I don't care for rumors. The sources are two monthes old and four monthes newer then yours and they claim and Sony themselves claim that they are losing money on each PS3 sold. Now why would they be talking about anything other then the 40GB and the 80GB which are the only two SKU's on the market?

So like I've said before. Until you can prove my two links and Sony wrong you're not right. Bottom line is this. Sony is losing money on each PS3 sold, period.

Breaking even reflects manufacturing costs, not everything else. This is the basic scope of the article I used. Yes Sony loses money on hardware as does everyone else but Nintendo. I am not going to talk about the SKUs again because clearly it is beyond your comprehension.

I am not challenging the main premise of your links because I happen to agree with them in terms of Sony losing money. Nevertheless, if you really believe that Sony is losing $130 per PS3 developed and sold from the substance of the links, then that says more about you than me. Sony is basically estimating from there gaming division losses what there loss is for each PS3. An estimate doesn't equal what they are actually losing per unit. Based on your source without any additional information specifically only to the PS3, I could care less if the source comes from Sony. Nevertheless, your welcome to accept it as gospel.

[QUOTE="jknight5422"][QUOTE="-GhostMLD-"]

Right now in Europe/Asia the PS3 apparently outsells the 360 by about 20-30k per week. In japan the gap is 10k per week. In NA sales are roughly even.

With a $299 Pro, and im guessing a $199-$229 Arcade and $399 Elite (same price as 40gigPS3), the value is just too much to ignore.

Working class families will opt for the cheap Arcade, not caring for the missing bells and whistles. The hardcore gamers will buy an Elite over a 40 gig PS3. Think about it, its 3x harddrive space, component cables, HDMI cable, Headset, and ethernet cable thrown in. ANd the regualr gamers will see a $100 gap between the Pro and 40gig PS3. Many consumers are uninformed so many will disregard the bluray and wifi. ALl they will see is a $100 gap, which one will they choose? WHich one will the parents choose, a $299 360 or a $399 PS3?

Point: This will obviously give 360 sales a boost, which will also help counteract 360 lagging sales in japan/europe. This will make worldwide PS3 sales not gain any meaningful ground on 360's worldwide installed base. And its fairly certain that PS3 wont drop its price, as SOny clearly wants to make a profit, they are loosing enough money as it is on PS3.

SambaLele

A lower price cut isn't going to curb the hate from Europe/Japan. Europeans tend to hate Mr. Softy in general so the brand is not popular. Japan has this pride thing going about buying only their technology & nobody elses. It'll just have to be big in the US & if that can happen, then it'll spread to the rest of them. The Windows OS was the same way. It didn't depend heavily on Japan or Europe to grow into the megaloppolex that it is today.

is that why the IPod strongly outsells any japenese MP3 player there? :|

Are you saying that the phenomenon doesn't exist?

[QUOTE="effthat"]

Price is one of MANY qualities in which business compete. It is NEVER a good idea to get innto a pricing war unless you know you can win and then bump the prices back up when you are the only player on the field. This is not a viable scenario in the console world.

Sony has no obligations to cut price in order to "compete".

MadExponent

You can't shift demand based on price, you can move across the demand curve. So if 3 million more American's are willing and able to buy a 360 at under $300 but not at $350, then now they will purchase one. There is always a price for someone. Like I'm sure there are many people that say, well if the PS3 was $299, I'd get one, but also we must think dollars and cents for Sony. Sony isn't pulling a profit in the games industry right now. Between liscensing, hardware, and XBL, Microsoft is profiting. Sony had poor planning on this system and they are paying for it right now. Sure, MS is having hardware issues and are paying for that, but they are still selling systems. Plus, they are close to integrating the CPU/GPU, cutting RROD and making 360's cheaper to make in the process.

You're looking at the supply and demand curve too simply. The only growth in sales is the distance between the old equalibrium and the new equilibrium. The theory is there, but your missing out on a few key issues.

Not only is the growth limited, but you don't have repeat customers. The growth in sales is not sustainable. Everyone who was on the edge will be pushed over, but 3.5 years after launch, there is no longer a significant amount of folks on the cusp of buying one.

They aren't going to sell a significant amount more than they would have, but they're going to be recieving a significant amount less per unit.

You know what I want to see? A fix for RROD. I might actually be interested in buying one then. I don't care how cheap it is. If it's gonna break in 6 months, I won't touch it.

[QUOTE="EmperorSupreme"]$50 isn't substantial. To me it's never been about the X360s price, it's all the extras that MS charges for that I don't like. And that's more about the principle than the actual cost. I don't like proprietary systems that use proprietary equipment. I don't like Microsofts agenda of making paying to play online the industry standard. I also don't like that they haven't fixed the RROD.
dsmccracken

I don't really care about the rest (maybe I should, but I don't), but the big point to me here is the RROD. The Wii would be jolly-stomping no matter what, but had it not been for the never-ending RROD saga, Sony would be buried right now.

it's not about "should be" or "could be" . it's business, things "are" or "aren't". MS didn't take care of it's consumers by letting a system be launched with such major, easily detectable by tests, fatal flaw. did they care? i bet you a 3 year warranty was way cheaper to them than to really deal with a flaw that could make them discontinue their system.

Or people really think they would recall all 360 units that were out there, redesign the console (which, by the looks of it, would take years to do, they're yet to figure this thing out) and provide every owner with the new flawless unit, and them re-enter the market with the fixed product? They'd be out this gen. Yet, i know that it's what they should have done. That's the serious approach to such a failure. Isn't that what we would expect of a company with any other product with such important defect?

You're looking at the supply and demand curve too simply. The only growth in sales is the distance between the old equalibrium and the new equilibrium. The theory is there, but your missing out on a few key issues.

Not only is the growth limited, but you don't have repeat customers. The growth in sales is not sustainable. Everyone who was on the edge will be pushed over, but 3.5 years after launch, there is no longer a significant amount of folks on the cusp of buying one.

They aren't going to sell a significant amount more than they would have, but they're going to be recieving a significant amount less per unit.

You know what I want to see? A fix for RROD. I might actually be interested in buying one then. I don't care how cheap it is. If it's gonna break in 6 months, I won't touch it.

effthat

How many bought a PS2 3.5 years after launch and beyond?

[QUOTE="SambaLele"][QUOTE="jknight5422"][QUOTE="-GhostMLD-"]

Right now in Europe/Asia the PS3 apparently outsells the 360 by about 20-30k per week. In japan the gap is 10k per week. In NA sales are roughly even.

With a $299 Pro, and im guessing a $199-$229 Arcade and $399 Elite (same price as 40gigPS3), the value is just too much to ignore.

Working class families will opt for the cheap Arcade, not caring for the missing bells and whistles. The hardcore gamers will buy an Elite over a 40 gig PS3. Think about it, its 3x harddrive space, component cables, HDMI cable, Headset, and ethernet cable thrown in. ANd the regualr gamers will see a $100 gap between the Pro and 40gig PS3. Many consumers are uninformed so many will disregard the bluray and wifi. ALl they will see is a $100 gap, which one will they choose? WHich one will the parents choose, a $299 360 or a $399 PS3?

Point: This will obviously give 360 sales a boost, which will also help counteract 360 lagging sales in japan/europe. This will make worldwide PS3 sales not gain any meaningful ground on 360's worldwide installed base. And its fairly certain that PS3 wont drop its price, as SOny clearly wants to make a profit, they are loosing enough money as it is on PS3.

dsmccracken

A lower price cut isn't going to curb the hate from Europe/Japan. Europeans tend to hate Mr. Softy in general so the brand is not popular. Japan has this pride thing going about buying only their technology & nobody elses. It'll just have to be big in the US & if that can happen, then it'll spread to the rest of them. The Windows OS was the same way. It didn't depend heavily on Japan or Europe to grow into the megaloppolex that it is today.

is that why the IPod strongly outsells any japenese MP3 player there? :|

Are you saying that the phenomenon doesn't exist?

yes, i'm also saying that people should stop with that cliche stereotype you people give to the japanese. you know that there's also a stereotype for the "typical american" out in the whole world, and it's pretty close to what some here think of japanese people. it's full of prejudice. enough of this already.

[QUOTE="MadExponent"][QUOTE="effthat"]

Price is one of MANY qualities in which business compete. It is NEVER a good idea to get innto a pricing war unless you know you can win and then bump the prices back up when you are the only player on the field. This is not a viable scenario in the console world.

Sony has no obligations to cut price in order to "compete".

effthat

You can't shift demand based on price, you can move across the demand curve. So if 3 million more American's are willing and able to buy a 360 at under $300 but not at $350, then now they will purchase one. There is always a price for someone. Like I'm sure there are many people that say, well if the PS3 was $299, I'd get one, but also we must think dollars and cents for Sony. Sony isn't pulling a profit in the games industry right now. Between liscensing, hardware, and XBL, Microsoft is profiting. Sony had poor planning on this system and they are paying for it right now. Sure, MS is having hardware issues and are paying for that, but they are still selling systems. Plus, they are close to integrating the CPU/GPU, cutting RROD and making 360's cheaper to make in the process.

You're looking at the supply and demand curve too simply. The only growth in sales is the distance between the old equalibrium and the new equilibrium. The theory is there, but your missing out on a few key issues.

Not only is the growth limited, but you don't have repeat customers. The growth in sales is not sustainable. Everyone who was on the edge will be pushed over, but 3.5 years after launch, there is no longer a significant amount of folks on the cusp of buying one.

They aren't going to sell a significant amount more than they would have, but they're going to be recieving a significant amount less per unit.

You know what I want to see? A fix for RROD. I might actually be interested in buying one then. I don't care how cheap it is. If it's gonna break in 6 months, I won't touch it.

I know numerous people that are waiting on a cheaper product. My best friend loves this news of a $299 360, he wants one now. In a broader field, the equilibrium price just dropped, so those with less utility, may be more inclined to buy one. a lot of people see $300 as a breaking price as to what is too expensive for a gaming console. The PSX started at $299, so did PS2, and the original Xbox. I think $299 going into the holidays with more great games coming, we will see a lot of 360s moving.

[QUOTE="jknight5422"][QUOTE="-GhostMLD-"]

Right now in Europe/Asia the PS3 apparently outsells the 360 by about 20-30k per week. In japan the gap is 10k per week. In NA sales are roughly even.

With a $299 Pro, and im guessing a $199-$229 Arcade and $399 Elite (same price as 40gigPS3), the value is just too much to ignore.

Working class families will opt for the cheap Arcade, not caring for the missing bells and whistles. The hardcore gamers will buy an Elite over a 40 gig PS3. Think about it, its 3x harddrive space, component cables, HDMI cable, Headset, and ethernet cable thrown in. ANd the regualr gamers will see a $100 gap between the Pro and 40gig PS3. Many consumers are uninformed so many will disregard the bluray and wifi. ALl they will see is a $100 gap, which one will they choose? WHich one will the parents choose, a $299 360 or a $399 PS3?

Point: This will obviously give 360 sales a boost, which will also help counteract 360 lagging sales in japan/europe. This will make worldwide PS3 sales not gain any meaningful ground on 360's worldwide installed base. And its fairly certain that PS3 wont drop its price, as SOny clearly wants to make a profit, they are loosing enough money as it is on PS3.

SambaLele

A lower price cut isn't going to curb the hate from Europe/Japan. Europeans tend to hate Mr. Softy in general so the brand is not popular. Japan has this pride thing going about buying only their technology & nobody elses. It'll just have to be big in the US & if that can happen, then it'll spread to the rest of them. The Windows OS was the same way. It didn't depend heavily on Japan or Europe to grow into the megaloppolex that it is today.

is that why the IPod strongly outsells any japenese MP3 player there? :|

That's one item out of many and it's not a game console. Tell me how many American game consoles have been successful in Japan? The answer would be NONE. There haven't been many American cars that are popular in Japan either, compared to how many Japanese car are popular in America. Japanese usually buy their own brand over an American brand. Not saying that they hate EVERYTHING American, as they do seem to love our fast food places and amusement parks (Disney anyone?), but most electronics they stick with their own brands.

[QUOTE="dsmccracken"]

[QUOTE="EmperorSupreme"]$50 isn't substantial. To me it's never been about the X360s price, it's all the extras that MS charges for that I don't like. And that's more about the principle than the actual cost. I don't like proprietary systems that use proprietary equipment. I don't like Microsofts agenda of making paying to play online the industry standard. I also don't like that they haven't fixed the RROD.
SambaLele

I don't really care about the rest (maybe I should, but I don't), but the big point to me here is the RROD. The Wii would be jolly-stomping no matter what, but had it not been for the never-ending RROD saga, Sony would be buried right now.

it's not about "should be" or "could be" . it's business, things "are" or "aren't". MS didn't take care of it's consumers by letting a system be launched with such major, easily detectable by tests, fatal flaw. did they care? i bet you a 3 year warranty was way cheaper to them than to really deal with a flaw that could make them discontinue their system.

Or people really think they would recall all 360 units that were out there, redesign the console (which, by the looks of it, would take years to do, they're yet to figure this thing out) and provide every owner with the new flawless unit, and them re-enter the market with the fixed product? They'd be out this gen. Yet, i know that it's what they should have done. That's the serious approach to such a failure. Isn't that what we would expect of a company with any other product with such important defect?

It is about what "should be" if that is the point I am raising. This isn't business, this is a response in a topic thread on a fan forum.

Breaking even reflects manufacturing costs, not everything else. This is the basic scope of the article I used. Yes Sony loses money on hardware as does everyone else but Nintendo. I am not going to talk about the SKUs again because clearly it is beyond your comprehension.

I am not challenging the main premise of your links because I happen to agree with them in terms of Sony losing money. Nevertheless, if you really believe that Sony is losing $130 per PS3 developed and sold from the substance of the links, then that says more about you than me. Sony is basically estimating from there gaming division losses what there loss is for each PS3. An estimate doesn't equal what they are actually losing per unit. Based on your source without any additional information specifically only to the PS3, I could care less if the source comes from Sony. Nevertheless, your welcome to accept it as gospel.

guts32

[QUOTE="ZIMdoom"]

A few months ago new came out that PS3s now cost roughly $399 to make.So they stopped "losing money on each PS3 sold" a few months ago.And as they get their act together and release more games, their income will improve regardless of the hit they take on the consoles.

guts32

What he said.

Sony loses money on hardware. You have had your point that Sony breaks even on hardware factually disproven.

If you aren't going to challenge the premise of my links then may I ask what are you challenging? You made a statement I factually proved you wrong. You gave an older link four monthes older then mine I gave a more up to date link. Now you agree with me that Sony is losing money. Meaning now what are you even debating about?

Yeah it does say something about me that I believe Sony is losing $130 on PS3's sold. I mean god how dare I look at the facts, proof, and evidence. Seriously how dare I lol. It says a lot about me that I look at the facts. So what does that say about you?

You could care less if it came from Sony? Oh wow so what are you going to do make up your own facts and speculation now? It came form Sony and it came from an outside source what else do you want a super natural being to come down and tell you personally?

Just end your arguement man. You've been factually proven wrong. No manner of opinion or specualtion can change the rock solid truth.

yes, i'm also saying that people should stop with that cliche stereotype you people give to the japanese. you know that there's also a stereotype for the "typical american" out in the whole world, and it's pretty close to what some here think of japanese people. it's full of prejudice. enough of this already.

SambaLele

I'm all for combating stereotypes and racism, but to deny that there is any tendency in Japan to be isolationist and to support their own industry is absurd in the face of all the evidence to the contrary.

I always think of price cuts as more of a sign of weakness than of strength.supercubedude64

Yeah, Sony hasn't done any proce cuts for the PS3... oh wait...

Yes : www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/jan2008/gb2008018_681920.htm

guts32

"Already such changes have cut the cost per machine to around $400 now"

So, do the PS3s just magically appear on store shelves now?

[QUOTE="SambaLele"]

yes, i'm also saying that people should stop with that cliche stereotype you people give to the japanese. you know that there's also a stereotype for the "typical american" out in the whole world, and it's pretty close to what some here think of japanese people. it's full of prejudice. enough of this already.

dsmccracken

I'm all for combating stereotypes and racism, but to deny that there is any tendency in Japan to be isolationist and to support their own industry is absurd in the face of all the evidence to the contrary.

that also exists in America too. I bet if I went around the world I'd find that every country has a similar percentage of their population that would fit the stereotype too.

[QUOTE="supercubedude64"]I always think of price cuts as more of a sign of weakness than of strength.dabear

Yeah, Sony hasn't done any proce cuts for the PS3... oh wait...

Well even so, they didn't release 5 skus and one without an HDD, and another without an HDMI. The only thing consistent with the 360 hardware over all skus is RROD(among other malfunctions).

That said PS3 fans are way too busy playing MGS4 and anticipating Firmware 2.4, which will elevate the online and system functionality to the level that was initially promised.

[QUOTE="SambaLele"]

yes, i'm also saying that people should stop with that cliche stereotype you people give to the japanese. you know that there's also a stereotype for the "typical american" out in the whole world, and it's pretty close to what some here think of japanese people. it's full of prejudice. enough of this already.

dsmccracken

I'm all for combating stereotypes and racism, but to deny that there is any tendency in Japan to be isolationist and to support their own industry is absurd in the face of all the evidence to the contrary.

I'll let the suits at Sony worry about that. :roll:kingdre

Basically!!!!!

[QUOTE="guts32"]

Yes : www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/jan2008/gb2008018_681920.htm

SSCyborg

"Already such changes have cut the cost per machine to around $400 now"

So, do the PS3s just magically appear on store shelves now?

Here my links are four monthes newer then his

LINK 1

LINK 2

His are from January.

[QUOTE="dabear"]

[QUOTE="supercubedude64"]I always think of price cuts as more of a sign of weakness than of strength.Adrian_Cloud

Yeah, Sony hasn't done any proce cuts for the PS3... oh wait...

Well even so, they didn't release 5 skus and one without an HDD, and another without an HDMI. The only thing consistent with the 360 hardware over all skus is RROD(among other malfunctions).

That said PS3 fans are way too busy playing MGS4 and anticipating Firmware 2.4, which will elevate the online and system functionality to the level that was initially promised.

[QUOTE="SambaLele"][QUOTE="jknight5422"][QUOTE="-GhostMLD-"]

Right now in Europe/Asia the PS3 apparently outsells the 360 by about 20-30k per week. In japan the gap is 10k per week. In NA sales are roughly even.

With a $299 Pro, and im guessing a $199-$229 Arcade and $399 Elite (same price as 40gigPS3), the value is just too much to ignore.

Working class families will opt for the cheap Arcade, not caring for the missing bells and whistles. The hardcore gamers will buy an Elite over a 40 gig PS3. Think about it, its 3x harddrive space, component cables, HDMI cable, Headset, and ethernet cable thrown in. ANd the regualr gamers will see a $100 gap between the Pro and 40gig PS3. Many consumers are uninformed so many will disregard the bluray and wifi. ALl they will see is a $100 gap, which one will they choose? WHich one will the parents choose, a $299 360 or a $399 PS3?

Point: This will obviously give 360 sales a boost, which will also help counteract 360 lagging sales in japan/europe. This will make worldwide PS3 sales not gain any meaningful ground on 360's worldwide installed base. And its fairly certain that PS3 wont drop its price, as SOny clearly wants to make a profit, they are loosing enough money as it is on PS3.

XanderZane

A lower price cut isn't going to curb the hate from Europe/Japan. Europeans tend to hate Mr. Softy in general so the brand is not popular. Japan has this pride thing going about buying only their technology & nobody elses. It'll just have to be big in the US & if that can happen, then it'll spread to the rest of them. The Windows OS was the same way. It didn't depend heavily on Japan or Europe to grow into the megaloppolex that it is today.

is that why the IPod strongly outsells any japenese MP3 player there? :|

That's one item out of many and it's not a game console. Tell me how many American game consoles have been successful in Japan? The answer would be NONE. There haven't been many American cars that are popular in Japan either, compared to how many Japanese car are popular in America. Japanese usually buy their own brand over an American brand. Not saying that they hate EVERYTHING American, as they do seem to love our fast food places and amusement parks (Disney anyone?), but most electronics they stick with their own brands.

Sorry to point that out for you, but every item you listed doesn't sell there because the american offering is not the best anymore. Japanese cars and electronics outsells the american competition world-widely. it's not just in japan. in fact, even you americans buy more japanese cars than your own home-made. but they are not the xenophobics you guys accuse them of. just see the cel phone that sells the most there, the iphone, PCs, laptops, etc. their market is as open as yours. and your products are there because they sell.

And talking about consoles: their consoles sells way more in the whole world. In fact, arguing about consoles, you are the xenophobic ones. the 360 relies solely on your country, if it wasn't for the USA, there would be no economic viability for the product.

[QUOTE="SambaLele"][QUOTE="dsmccracken"]

[QUOTE="EmperorSupreme"]$50 isn't substantial. To me it's never been about the X360s price, it's all the extras that MS charges for that I don't like. And that's more about the principle than the actual cost. I don't like proprietary systems that use proprietary equipment. I don't like Microsofts agenda of making paying to play online the industry standard. I also don't like that they haven't fixed the RROD.
dsmccracken

I don't really care about the rest (maybe I should, but I don't), but the big point to me here is the RROD. The Wii would be jolly-stomping no matter what, but had it not been for the never-ending RROD saga, Sony would be buried right now.

it's not about "should be" or "could be" . it's business, things "are" or "aren't". MS didn't take care of it's consumers by letting a system be launched with such major, easily detectable by tests, fatal flaw. did they care? i bet you a 3 year warranty was way cheaper to them than to really deal with a flaw that could make them discontinue their system.

Or people really think they would recall all 360 units that were out there, redesign the console (which, by the looks of it, would take years to do, they're yet to figure this thing out) and provide every owner with the new flawless unit, and them re-enter the market with the fixed product? They'd be out this gen. Yet, i know that it's what they should have done. That's the serious approach to such a failure. Isn't that what we would expect of a company with any other product with such important defect?

It is about what "should be" if that is the point I am raising. This isn't business, this is a response in a topic thread on a fan forum.

oh, sorry, i though you were in a topic thread on a fan forum talking about business, where things "are", not "should be" and your argument would be of no use.

Sony fears the price cut more than anything else. Once again they will have to cut the price of PS3 significantly yet again, to even have a fighting chance aganist the Xbox 360 for the second half of the year. They'll have to do it though, the system is finally gaining steam and they can't afford to slip again.

Im expecting price cuts in the fall for the 40GB PS3 for $320-$350 (sans Spiderman 3), and the 80GB (sans MGS4) for $380-$400. Once again putting them even deeper in the whole with production costs. Sony is going to have to push GAMES and getting them to sell, if they don't want the system to end up like the Original Xbox, not even generating a profit.

[QUOTE="guts32"]

Breaking even reflects manufacturing costs, not everything else. This is the basic scope of the article I used. Yes Sony loses money on hardware as does everyone else but Nintendo. I am not going to talk about the SKUs again because clearly it is beyond your comprehension.

I am not challenging the main premise of your links because I happen to agree with them in terms of Sony losing money. Nevertheless, if you really believe that Sony is losing $130 per PS3 developed and sold from the substance of the links, then that says more about you than me. Sony is basically estimating from there gaming division losses what there loss is for each PS3. An estimate doesn't equal what they are actually losing per unit. Based on your source without any additional information specifically only to the PS3, I could care less if the source comes from Sony. Nevertheless, your welcome to accept it as gospel.

Blackbond

[QUOTE="ZIMdoom"]

A few months ago new came out that PS3s now cost roughly $399 to make.So they stopped "losing money on each PS3 sold" a few months ago.And as they get their act together and release more games, their income will improve regardless of the hit they take on the consoles.

guts32

What he said.

Sony loses money on hardware. You have had your point that Sony breaks even on hardware factually disproven.

If you aren't going to challenge the premise of my links then may I ask what are you challenging? You made a statement I factually proved you wrong. You gave an older link four monthes older then mine I gave a more up to date link. Now you agree with me that Sony is losing money. Meaning now what are you even debating about?

Yeah it does say something about me that I believe Sony is losing $130 on PS3's sold. I mean god how dare I look at the facts, proof, and evidence. Seriously how dare I lol. It says a lot about me that I look at the facts. So what does that say about you?

You could care less if it came from Sony? Oh wow so what are you going to do make up your own facts and speculation now? It came form Sony and it came from an outside source what else do you want a super natural being to come down and tell you personally?

Just end your arguement man. You've been factually proven wrong. No manner of opinion or specualtion can change the rock solid truth.

Remind me where I said Sony breaks even on hardware. Maybe just in your imagination.

I'm disputing the substance of the links, not the conclusion. Yes I could care about less about who the source is when they are relying on guesstimates. Rock solid truth? Once again, when you are using the entire gaming division loss as your source for what the loss is per PS3, then there nothing for sure.

So what would like to talk about now, the difference in the production costs of the various SKUs?

[QUOTE="SambaLele"]

yes, i'm also saying that people should stop with that cliche stereotype you people give to the japanese. you know that there's also a stereotype for the "typical american" out in the whole world, and it's pretty close to what some here think of japanese people. it's full of prejudice. enough of this already.

dsmccracken

I'm all for combating stereotypes and racism, but to deny that there is any tendency in Japan to be isolationist and to support their own industry is absurd in the face of all the evidence to the contrary.

everyone has his own tendency. they have theirs, yes they have. but to think that the 360 doesn't sell there because of it is nonses. where's the software offering they like? the 360 offers too little for them. games like animals collecting games, pet simulators, dating sims, soccer games, casual games, JRPGs, anime-based games, etc. that's what they usually are after. that's what the 360 does not offer. that's why they don't buy it.

[QUOTE="guts32"]

Yes : www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/jan2008/gb2008018_681920.htm

SSCyborg

"Already such changes have cut the cost per machine to around $400 now"

So, do the PS3s just magically appear on store shelves now?

Not magically, but through teleportation.8)

Naa, I dont care about the price drop at all why would anyone get scared xD either way, the Ps3 outsold the 360 last year when the price gap was larger and less games were out.

The Ps3 will have a new price drop when production costs get cheaper.

Its just another price cut to them and any other fanbase. Big whoop. Im sure lemms aka YOU are afraid of that big fat 10 posted on the label of mgs4.

But in all serious face, the price cut wont have people trampling over each other just to buy a 360.

[QUOTE="dsmccracken"][QUOTE="SambaLele"]

yes, i'm also saying that people should stop with that cliche stereotype you people give to the japanese. you know that there's also a stereotype for the "typical american" out in the whole world, and it's pretty close to what some here think of japanese people. it's full of prejudice. enough of this already.

dabear

I'm all for combating stereotypes and racism, but to deny that there is any tendency in Japan to be isolationist and to support their own industry is absurd in the face of all the evidence to the contrary.

Link? There were issues with China and Harley, and Japan has restrictions on any bike over 400 cc, but I find nothing about consumer group trying to ban Harley's.

Not doubting, just wondering.

[QUOTE="SambaLele"]

yes, i'm also saying that people should stop with that cliche stereotype you people give to the japanese. you know that there's also a stereotype for the "typical american" out in the whole world, and it's pretty close to what some here think of japanese people. it's full of prejudice. enough of this already.

dsmccracken

I'm all for combating stereotypes and racism, but to deny that there is any tendency in Japan to be isolationist and to support their own industry is absurd in the face of all the evidence to the contrary.

Exactly. SambaLele is being ridiculous. This is not a stereotype. It's a fact. Just look at that mountain of sales evidence on anything foreign to country-branded.....except the iPod....LOL!

[QUOTE="ZIMdoom"]

A few months ago new came out that PS3s now cost roughly $399 to make.So they stopped "losing money on each PS3 sold" a few months ago.And as they get their act together and release more games, their income will improve regardless of the hit they take on the consoles.

guts32

What he said.

The 40 GB system is selling at cost. Can't say for sure about the 80 GB. Either way a price cut would result in Sony losing money on each console. The only console that sells for a profit is the Wii.

guts32

Remind me where I said Sony breaks even on hardware. Maybe just in your imagination.

I'm disputing the substance of the links, not the conclusion. Yes I could care about less about who the source is when they are relying on guesstimates. Rock solid truth? Once again, when you are using the entire gaming division loss as your source for what the loss is per PS3, then there nothing for sure.

So what would like to talk about now, the difference in the production costs of the various SKUs?

guts32

Man I must be imagining things.....

Sony losing $260 on each PS3 Sold

Sony could be losing as much as $130 on each PS3 Sold

The entire gaming division loss the source for what the loss per PS3? No no no man read the link and the title please.

[QUOTE="Blackbond"]

ANd no I haven't played the game.

DragonFlyJ

Thank You, no need to argue with you. :)

the game completely BOMBED in sales. not many people thought it would be worth their time.

Its just another price cut to them and any other fanbase. Big whoop. Im sure lemms aka YOU are afraid of that big fat 10 posted on the label of mgs4.

But in all serious face, the price cut wont have people trampling over each other just to buy a 360.

mccoyca112

You're wrong there. People bought the Wii because of its cheap price. The 360 could get a boost with a lower cost. People who were whining about it costing too much now have a chance to own one for less. I certainly don't see anyone trampling over each other to buy a Sorny. Last time I visited Gamestop the PS3 section had dust all over it.

Not really. The majority of the xbox fanbase has already adopted a 360 and its failed to penetrate a market outside hardcore gamers/fanboys. Rhys555

from what i understand many ps2 owners converted to 360, same goes for Nintendo fans converting to 360 for not liking Wii's new direction.