Bioshock Infinite edning and story is a total cop out and unfair (some spoilers)

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texasgoldrush

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#101 texasgoldrush
Member since 2003 • 15245 Posts

[QUOTE="the_bi99man"]

No it wasn't. The choices never made a significant difference. Just a different ending cutscene. Going with a more direct story was a great move, and allowed them to do an even better story than either of the Rapture games.

Also... recycles Bioshock 1 and 2? Huge open areas, skyline navigation/combat, an AI partner who actually does things, and makes a drastic difference in gameplay, with the tears for bringing in assists? What more do you want? 

Wanderer5

So what was the point of the choice moments in this game then? I mean I agree about the choices in Bioshock 1 (never played 2) being pretty eh in the end, and don't mind a more direct story, but did we really need choice moments then? Only thing I can think of is that they were there to foreshadow the different dimensions, or something like that.

And I can't help but think about the Zero Escape series after beating this since both have similar concepts.:P

In Bioshock 2, the choices affect the endgame.....and affect what kind of character Eleanor Lamb is.
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texasgoldrush

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#102 texasgoldrush
Member since 2003 • 15245 Posts

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"][QUOTE="zarshack"]

The one thing which i can say is quite plot-hole-y is the fact that killing him at the baptism doesn't make sense in terms of stopping everything because all this stuff is based on Multiverses and not time travel. Killing the one booker and stopping everything else from happening implies that somehow the booker we play is special and an original of all the other possible options. They are trying to say they somehow drowned him out of regular time/dimension and somehow were able to erase every other option available after that point in the multiverse, which doesn't entirely make sense since there would be multiple instances of all of this still, I don't think any of it can be stopped and it is just an infinite time/dimensional loop that will never end no matter what they did.

Vaasman

This......the ending works on a theme level, but not on a plot level. However, another potential choice, where Booker chooses NOT to prevent the baptism and accept the consquences of his actions also could have thematically worked.

I really hope for everyone's sake that you don't ever write a video game story.

Edit: Let me rephrase that.

Don't write anything.

And you would be better? I think not.
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Agent-Tojed

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#103 Agent-Tojed
Member since 2012 • 160 Posts

[QUOTE="Wanderer5"]

[QUOTE="the_bi99man"]

No it wasn't. The choices never made a significant difference. Just a different ending cutscene. Going with a more direct story was a great move, and allowed them to do an even better story than either of the Rapture games.

Also... recycles Bioshock 1 and 2? Huge open areas, skyline navigation/combat, an AI partner who actually does things, and makes a drastic difference in gameplay, with the tears for bringing in assists? What more do you want? 

texasgoldrush

So what was the point of the choice moments in this game then? I mean I agree about the choices in Bioshock 1 (never played 2) being pretty eh in the end, and don't mind a more direct story, but did we really need choice moments then? Only thing I can think of is that they were there to foreshadow the different dimensions, or something like that.

And I can't help but think about the Zero Escape series after beating this since both have similar concepts.:P

In Bioshock 2, the choices affect the endgame.....and affect what kind of character Eleanor Lamb is.

Also, there are 6 different endings for BS2 depending on how good/evil you were.

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deactivated-5acbb9993d0bd

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#104 deactivated-5acbb9993d0bd
Member since 2012 • 12449 Posts
I kinda agree with beganoo in some ways, As soon as other dimensions came in I sort of lost interest... not because it was hard to follow but because it just took the first half of the game and threw it out of the window. Anything could of happened. I felt like I was in a "What if" theme park of nonsense to be quite honest.
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texasgoldrush

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#105 texasgoldrush
Member since 2003 • 15245 Posts

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"][QUOTE="DarkLink77"]

Why bother? That's not the point of the game.

the_bi99man

It was the point in the first two games.

No it wasn't. The choices never made a significant difference. Just a different ending cutscene. Going with a more direct story was a great move, and allowed them to do an even better story than either of the Rapture games.

Also... recycles Bioshock 1 and 2? Huge open areas, skyline navigation/combat, an AI partner who actually does things, and makes a drastic difference in gameplay, with the tears for bringing in assists? What more do you want? 

WRONG In Bioshock 2, your choices affect what kind of character Eleanor lamb turns out to be....really, it affects the last third of the game. Its about a daughter learning from the father. If you save little sisters, she saves the one you control, if you harvest some, she will harvest the sister you control in that section. There is also three NPCs in BS2 where you can decide their fate...your choices will affect whether Eleanor kills the main antagonist or not. Eleanor being good is different from her evil self. I am talking about the story. The story itself recycles a lot of bioshock 2.
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texasgoldrush

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#106 texasgoldrush
Member since 2003 • 15245 Posts
[QUOTE="jg4xchamp"][QUOTE="Vaasman"]I really hope for everyone's sake that you don't ever write a video game story.

Edit: Let me rephrase that.

Don't write anything.

DarkLink77
lol that game would be so far up its own ass.

True story. And when people on the internet called it out for being stupid, he'd post long, poorly-written essays telling them they didn't understand.

And they don't understand them....because they refuse to understand them. ME3's ending was so straightforward and it was foreshadowed. Every dilemma presented in the ending was either in the game or the series. The real "problem" is that it simply broke Bioware formula.
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texasgoldrush

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#107 texasgoldrush
Member since 2003 • 15245 Posts
Nevermind this ending, while great for what it is, does make any DLC irrelevant....basically the ending means Bioshock Infinite never happens. However, with the season pass we get three story DLC...so basically these story packs are going to be meaningless because the stories never happened in the end. One thing they could do for a DLC is cast you as Daisy in the world you left behind in the Good Times Club for a DLC, a Colombia without Booker and Liz. Daisy vs Comstock....but it won't matter anyway.
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#108 Agent-Tojed
Member since 2012 • 160 Posts

Nevermind this ending, while great for what it is, does make any DLC irrelevant....basically the ending means Bioshock Infinite never happens. However, with the season pass we get three story DLC...so basically these story packs are going to be meaningless because the stories never happened in the end. One thing they could do for a DLC is cast you as Daisy in the world you left behind in the Good Times Club for a DLC, a Colombia without Booker and Liz. Daisy vs Comstock....but it won't matter anyway.texasgoldrush
Wait, didn't Booker essentially create Columbia? Unless all of the DLC's are what-if stories (which I think they are), there would be no Columbia, not one in the sky at least.

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texasgoldrush

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#109 texasgoldrush
Member since 2003 • 15245 Posts

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"]Nevermind this ending, while great for what it is, does make any DLC irrelevant....basically the ending means Bioshock Infinite never happens. However, with the season pass we get three story DLC...so basically these story packs are going to be meaningless because the stories never happened in the end. One thing they could do for a DLC is cast you as Daisy in the world you left behind in the Good Times Club for a DLC, a Colombia without Booker and Liz. Daisy vs Comstock....but it won't matter anyway.Agent-Tojed

Wait, didn't Booker essentially create Columbia? Unless all of the DLC's are what-if stories (which I think they are), there would be no Columbia, not one in the sky at least.

Yeah, but remember he left one reality in the middle of the game so he can find the gunsmith alive. They can do a DLC back in the world where the gunsmith died.
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#110 dommeus
Member since 2004 • 9433 Posts

The one thing which i can say is quite plot-hole-y is the fact that killing him at the baptism doesn't make sense in terms of stopping everything because all this stuff is based on Multiverses and not time travel. Killing the one booker and stopping everything else from happening implies that somehow the booker we play is special and an original of all the other possible options. They are trying to say they somehow drowned him out of regular time/dimension and somehow were able to erase every other option available after that point in the multiverse, which doesn't entirely make sense since there would be multiple instances of all of this still, I don't think any of it can be stopped and it is just an infinite time/dimensional loop that will never end no matter what they did.

zarshack
When all the other Elizabeth's turn up at the end, one could surmise that Elizabeth's new-found understanding of the "millions upon millions" of universes allowed her to reach a total understanding across all of them (like a single decision that they all follow through), to kill Booker in the lake. That way, in every universe he dies, and there are none where Comstock is successful in his plan to destroy "Sodom". However, this raises a massive paradox, since if Booker never lives beyond that baptism, he never had Elizabeth/Anna...in which case she can never travel through dimensions to stop him...etc...hnnnnggggg
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#111 texasgoldrush
Member since 2003 • 15245 Posts
[QUOTE="zarshack"]

The one thing which i can say is quite plot-hole-y is the fact that killing him at the baptism doesn't make sense in terms of stopping everything because all this stuff is based on Multiverses and not time travel. Killing the one booker and stopping everything else from happening implies that somehow the booker we play is special and an original of all the other possible options. They are trying to say they somehow drowned him out of regular time/dimension and somehow were able to erase every other option available after that point in the multiverse, which doesn't entirely make sense since there would be multiple instances of all of this still, I don't think any of it can be stopped and it is just an infinite time/dimensional loop that will never end no matter what they did.

dommeus
When all the other Elizabeth's turn up at the end, one could surmise that Elizabeth's new-found understanding of the "millions upon millions" of universes allowed her to reach a total understanding across all of them (like a single decision that they all follow through), to kill Booker in the lake. That way, in every universe he dies, and there are none where Comstock is successful in his plan to destroy "Sodom". However, this raises a massive paradox, since if Booker never lives beyond that baptism, he never had Elizabeth/Anna...in which case she can never travel through dimensions to stop him...etc...hnnnnggggg

and hence Ken Levine should have stuck to religious/social themes and character studies.....thats where the game shines. When it does the "Sliders" stuff, Infinite goes off its rails.
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Vaasman

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#112 Vaasman
Member since 2008 • 15874 Posts

[QUOTE="Vaasman"]

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"] This......the ending works on a theme level, but not on a plot level. However, another potential choice, where Booker chooses NOT to prevent the baptism and accept the consquences of his actions also could have thematically worked.texasgoldrush

I really hope for everyone's sake that you don't ever write a video game story.

Edit: Let me rephrase that.

Don't write anything.

And you would be better? I think not.

Literally anything would be better than what you'd come up with. Dogs could s**t out better received content than anything you'd develop.

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#113 texasgoldrush
Member since 2003 • 15245 Posts

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"][QUOTE="Vaasman"]I really hope for everyone's sake that you don't ever write a video game story.

Edit: Let me rephrase that.

Don't write anything.

Vaasman

And you would be better? I think not.

Literally anything would be better than what you'd come up with. Dogs could s**t out better received content than anything you'd develop.

and you can do better? You can't even get ME3's ending....lol....or you are just ignorant about it and ignore half the themes of the series.
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#114 Vaasman
Member since 2008 • 15874 Posts

[QUOTE="Vaasman"]

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"] And you would be better? I think not.texasgoldrush

Literally anything would be better than what you'd come up with. Dogs could s**t out better received content than anything you'd develop.

and you can do better? You can't even get ME3's ending....lol....or you are just ignorant about it and ignore half the themes of the series.

I'm not going to start a conversation about ME3 in an Infinite thread, sorry, that's a lousy attempt you just made.

Suffice it to say, yes, I could make better written content than you. I guarantee it.

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#115 texasgoldrush
Member since 2003 • 15245 Posts

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"][QUOTE="Vaasman"]Literally anything would be better than what you'd come up with. Dogs could s**t out better received content than anything you'd develop.

Vaasman

and you can do better? You can't even get ME3's ending....lol....or you are just ignorant about it and ignore half the themes of the series.

I'm not going to start a conversation about ME3 in an Infinite thread, sorry, that's a lousy attempt you just made.

Suffice it to say, yes, I could make better written content than you. I guarantee it.

Probably not...it seems you can't grasp themes.
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#116 Agent-Tojed
Member since 2012 • 160 Posts

[QUOTE="Agent-Tojed"]

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"]Nevermind this ending, while great for what it is, does make any DLC irrelevant....basically the ending means Bioshock Infinite never happens. However, with the season pass we get three story DLC...so basically these story packs are going to be meaningless because the stories never happened in the end. One thing they could do for a DLC is cast you as Daisy in the world you left behind in the Good Times Club for a DLC, a Colombia without Booker and Liz. Daisy vs Comstock....but it won't matter anyway.texasgoldrush

Wait, didn't Booker essentially create Columbia? Unless all of the DLC's are what-if stories (which I think they are), there would be no Columbia, not one in the sky at least.

Yeah, but remember he left one reality in the middle of the game so he can find the gunsmith alive. They can do a DLC back in the world where the gunsmith died.

But the tear/reality is gone, right? Elizabeth said herself that there was no going back.

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Vaasman

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#117 Vaasman
Member since 2008 • 15874 Posts

[QUOTE="Vaasman"]

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"] and you can do better? You can't even get ME3's ending....lol....or you are just ignorant about it and ignore half the themes of the series.texasgoldrush

I'm not going to start a conversation about ME3 in an Infinite thread, sorry, that's a lousy attempt you just made.

Suffice it to say, yes, I could make better written content than you. I guarantee it.

Probably not...it seems you can't grasp themes.

I can, and I also understand what goes into a competent plot structure.

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texasgoldrush

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#118 texasgoldrush
Member since 2003 • 15245 Posts

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"][QUOTE="Agent-Tojed"]Wait, didn't Booker essentially create Columbia? Unless all of the DLC's are what-if stories (which I think they are), there would be no Columbia, not one in the sky at least.

Agent-Tojed

Yeah, but remember he left one reality in the middle of the game so he can find the gunsmith alive. They can do a DLC back in the world where the gunsmith died.

But the tear/reality is gone, right? Elizabeth said herself that there was no going back.

For them maybe? But maybe that universe still exists. I think of it as a "Slide" from "Sliders".
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texasgoldrush

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#119 texasgoldrush
Member since 2003 • 15245 Posts

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"][QUOTE="Vaasman"]I'm not going to start a conversation about ME3 in an Infinite thread, sorry, that's a lousy attempt you just made.

Suffice it to say, yes, I could make better written content than you. I guarantee it.

Vaasman

Probably not...it seems you can't grasp themes.

I can, and I also understand what goes into a competent plot structure.

which ME3 has....good day.
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#120 Agent-Tojed
Member since 2012 • 160 Posts

[QUOTE="zarshack"]

The one thing which i can say is quite plot-hole-y is the fact that killing him at the baptism doesn't make sense in terms of stopping everything because all this stuff is based on Multiverses and not time travel. Killing the one booker and stopping everything else from happening implies that somehow the booker we play is special and an original of all the other possible options. They are trying to say they somehow drowned him out of regular time/dimension and somehow were able to erase every other option available after that point in the multiverse, which doesn't entirely make sense since there would be multiple instances of all of this still, I don't think any of it can be stopped and it is just an infinite time/dimensional loop that will never end no matter what they did.

dommeus

When all the other Elizabeth's turn up at the end, one could surmise that Elizabeth's new-found understanding of the "millions upon millions" of universes allowed her to reach a total understanding across all of them (like a single decision that they all follow through), to kill Booker in the lake. That way, in every universe he dies, and there are none where Comstock is successful in his plan to destroy "Sodom". However, this raises a massive paradox, since if Booker never lives beyond that baptism, he never had Elizabeth/Anna...in which case she can never travel through dimensions to stop him...etc...hnnnnggggg

Booker had Elizabeth before the Baptism, and that is when she was taken away. Killing Booker right before being baptized get's rid of Comstock and Elizabeth stays with Booker.

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#121 Vaasman
Member since 2008 • 15874 Posts

[QUOTE="Vaasman"]

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"] Probably not...it seems you can't grasp themes.texasgoldrush

I can, and I also understand what goes into a competent plot structure.

which ME3 has....good day.

You are a real douchebag lol.

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#122 Lulekani
Member since 2012 • 2318 Posts
[QUOTE="dommeus"][QUOTE="zarshack"]

The one thing which i can say is quite plot-hole-y is the fact that killing him at the baptism doesn't make sense in terms of stopping everything because all this stuff is based on Multiverses and not time travel. Killing the one booker and stopping everything else from happening implies that somehow the booker we play is special and an original of all the other possible options. They are trying to say they somehow drowned him out of regular time/dimension and somehow were able to erase every other option available after that point in the multiverse, which doesn't entirely make sense since there would be multiple instances of all of this still, I don't think any of it can be stopped and it is just an infinite time/dimensional loop that will never end no matter what they did.

texasgoldrush
When all the other Elizabeth's turn up at the end, one could surmise that Elizabeth's new-found understanding of the "millions upon millions" of universes allowed her to reach a total understanding across all of them (like a single decision that they all follow through), to kill Booker in the lake. That way, in every universe he dies, and there are none where Comstock is successful in his plan to destroy "Sodom". However, this raises a massive paradox, since if Booker never lives beyond that baptism, he never had Elizabeth/Anna...in which case she can never travel through dimensions to stop him...etc...hnnnnggggg

and hence Ken Levine should have stuck to religious/social themes and character studies.....thats where the game shines. When it does the "Sliders" stuff, Infinite goes off its rails.

Can any of you explain why you are arguing Logic in a game made by a studio with the word "irrational" in it ? While you're at it, why don't you discuss the lack of emotional depth in Sport Games.
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#123 beganoo
Member since 2009 • 1642 Posts

Oh wow thats a big one. If booker never became comstock elizabeth would't have reason to kill him and if she doesn't have a reason to kill him she won't  kill him and if shed didn't kill him hes free to take the baptism and become Comstok all over again.Sweet paradoxes (aka plot holes).

 

Btw why did no one try to explain the plot holes I posted few hours ago? Everything is explained in the game right ? There were some people that were really enthusiastic to prove I'm wrong.Go on then...

 

Got some plot holes for you. I just want to see how will explain this.

 

1st they clearly state that wen you move in to a new dimension the personalities and memories (not sure about physical form) merge.

 

We'll guess what.Booker and Comstok are the same person but nothing like this happend wen booker 1st entered the columbia world. Hes nose wasn't bleeding, he wasn't cofused and he didn't get any new memories. He later on got some dreams about NY wen he was unconscious but i was  nothing like what happend when elizabeth starting opening portals to another dimension.

 

Plot hole number 2.. Wen they kill him in the end they kill a Booker that has the meomories and expiriance of columbia and everything that happend. Knowing everything EVEN if that (our) Booker took that baptism right there and then, thanks to the hole columbia experience he would never have become Comstock baptisim or not.That means that there is no way for this moment to be the starting ponit.

 

Plot hole number  3 and thats a BIG ONE. There are many ways to prevent the baptism to begin with. They could have killed the priest, destory the location with futuristing  c weaponry from  another dimension and many many other things.Why did they feel the need to choke him and not look for another option.Elizabeth must be a f*cking **** to kill her father who loved her without trying anything else.Someone wanted some extra drama at the end, DERP.

 

Whats the deal with the twins, if they wanted to help booker why did they make it so hard for him and why didn't tell him anything. What a buch of **** guess someone just wanted ome extra nonsensical mystery in the plot.Also if elizabeth had the same powers as them why didn't the syphon effect them that much in columbia ?

Oh and and why didn't they just went to the starting baptism point and showed booker what happens if he takes the baptism insted of taking him to the columbia world in the 1st place.They appear to be "all knowing" so they must have know what will happen.He would have never done it then.Yet another way it could have been done without killing him.

 

Lets hear it..

 

beganoo

 

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Jankarcop

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#124 Jankarcop
Member since 2011 • 11058 Posts

I don't think you get what quantum mechanics are.

MakeMeaSammitch

Doesn't sound like he gets what games are either. 

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padaporra

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#125 padaporra
Member since 2005 • 3508 Posts

I finished the game once and I tend to agree. The story doesn't feel very structered. Everything that happened in Columbia felt disconnected with the overall theme. It's like the story is just the first minutes and the last and they put another game in between.

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#126 beganoo
Member since 2009 • 1642 Posts

I finished the game once and I tend to agree. The story doesn't feel very structered. Everything that happened in Columbia felt disconnected with the overall theme. It's like the story is just the first minutes and the last and they put another game in between.

padaporra

 

Yeah I'm pretty sure that as more people finish the game since is brand new and not everyone has beaten it or got it yet  a lot more will feel like that.

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Vaasman

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#127 Vaasman
Member since 2008 • 15874 Posts

 

 

Btw why did no one try to explain the plot holes I posted few hours ago? Everything is explained in the game right ? There were some people that were really enthusiastic to prove I'm wrong.Go on then...

 

 

beganoo


I was enthusiastic, but then I realized it was a waste of time. Even when I posted a logical argument of something that actually was in the game or makes sense, it doesn't make an ounce of difference to you. You just hate it for what it is.

Honestly, if you weren't willing to discuss it, why did you bother making a thread about it?

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nutcrackr

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#128 nutcrackr
Member since 2004 • 13032 Posts
I must admit during the mid point when they were basically jumping through the rifts of time-space I just gave up trying to track where the story was headed. How can you be invested in a game that tells you to.... 1. get guns to trade for an airship 2. find the gun maker is dead 3. go through to a new universe where gun maker isn't dead 4. find his guns elsewhere and decide there are too many to carry (WTF seriously) 5. go through another tear in space where everything is different and the VOX have guns and power anyway. That's pretty much where the game story lost me. THey can do pretty much anything. But in some ways that's the entire point of the story they are trying to tell. They are demonstrating the vast array of universes with different outcomes. I think the story makes sense by the end, but the middle bits are just a demonstration.
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#129 HaRmLeSS_RaGe
Member since 2012 • 1330 Posts

I don't think the story has full closure and is largely open to interpretation by the player, but that's the point of it. You are told the main gist of the story and fill in the blanks yourself. That's the way I took it anyway. I don't really see any plot holes just the required use of your own imagination.

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texasgoldrush

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#130 texasgoldrush
Member since 2003 • 15245 Posts
[QUOTE="nutcrackr"]I must admit during the mid point when they were basically jumping through the rifts of time-space I just gave up trying to track where the story was headed. How can you be invested in a game that tells you to.... 1. get guns to trade for an airship 2. find the gun maker is dead 3. go through to a new universe where gun maker isn't dead 4. find his guns elsewhere and decide there are too many to carry (WTF seriously) 5. go through another tear in space where everything is different and the VOX have guns and power anyway. That's pretty much where the game story lost me. THey can do pretty much anything. But in some ways that's the entire point of the story they are trying to tell. They are demonstrating the vast array of universes with different outcomes. I think the story makes sense by the end, but the middle bits are just a demonstration.

This game is absolutely RIDDLED with Deus Ex Machina and Diabolus Ex Machina.....it does it so much it can be hard to follow. But the multiverse apsect far exceeds the writer's grasp. They could not keep it managable.
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#131 beganoo
Member since 2009 • 1642 Posts

[QUOTE="beganoo"]

 

 

Btw why did no one try to explain the plot holes I posted few hours ago? Everything is explained in the game right ? There were some people that were really enthusiastic to prove I'm wrong.Go on then...

 

 

Vaasman


I was enthusiastic, but then I realized it was a waste of time. Even when I posted a logical argument of something that actually was in the game or makes sense, it doesn't make an ounce of difference to you. You just hate it for what it is.

Honestly, if you weren't willing to discuss it, why did you bother making a thread about it?

 

Or you just can't dissprove and make sense of the ones I posted now so you came up with theis little story... eather way it works for me.There are more tho, so much more.

You and someone else  asked me for plot holes so you can show me I'm worng. Go ahead. We won't discuss anything. I give you plot holes you tell where in he game they are explained and how do they make sense. If I'm wrong thats fine but prvoe me wrong first.

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Vaasman

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#132 Vaasman
Member since 2008 • 15874 Posts

I must admit during the mid point when they were basically jumping through the rifts of time-space I just gave up trying to track where the story was headed. How can you be invested in a game that tells you to.... 1. get guns to trade for an airship 2. find the gun maker is dead 3. go through to a new universe where gun maker isn't dead 4. find his guns elsewhere and decide there are too many to carry (WTF seriously) 5. go through another tear in space where everything is different and the VOX have guns and power anyway. That's pretty much where the game story lost me. THey can do pretty much anything. But in some ways that's the entire point of the story they are trying to tell. They are demonstrating the vast array of universes with different outcomes. I think the story makes sense by the end, but the middle bits are just a demonstration. nutcrackr
Elizabeth says in the elevator with the first tear that she can't just make them where ever she wants. She initially needed tears that already existed to get around. It wasn't until the end when she gains full control over it. That's why she has to go find the gunsmith and the guns before she can move over.

From a gaming perspective, it mostly seems like it was just padding, and I agree that they could have skipped some of those steps to get the ball rolling. From the story's perspective, however, it is explained. I think that would have been better handled if there was not as much time in between each jump.

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#133 padaporra
Member since 2005 • 3508 Posts

Right know I'm thinking the game's creators just wanted to make some mind-bending story and they took the most mind-bending thing there is, quantum physics, and start to putting anything that they thought would be cool without "sewing" them together properly. 

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texasgoldrush

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#134 texasgoldrush
Member since 2003 • 15245 Posts

Right know I'm thinking the game's creators just wanted to make some mind-bending story and they took the most mind-bending thing there is, quantum physics, and start to putting anything that they thought would be cool without "sewing" them together properly. 

padaporra
This..... But but but "would you kindly" has to be topped....lol Bioshcok 2 did not need a major twist and never forced anything. It was better for it. However Infinite is easily the best Bioshock.
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beganoo

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#135 beganoo
Member since 2009 • 1642 Posts

[QUOTE="padaporra"]

Right know I'm thinking the game's creators just wanted to make some mind-bending story and they took the most mind-bending thing there is, quantum physics, and start to putting anything that they thought would be cool without "sewing" them together properly. 

texasgoldrush

This..... But but but "would you kindly" has to be topped....lol Bioshcok 2 did not need a major twist and never forced anything. It was better for it. However Infinite is easily the best Bioshock.

 

Lol not for me it wasn't.

 

Id say it on par with bioshock 2 but atleast bioshock 2 didn't piss me of at all.

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#136 deactivated-5b69bebd1b0b6
Member since 2009 • 6176 Posts

I think the game could of a done without all alternate dimension bullshit and just kept it simple.    As soon as I started traveling through these tears into alternative realities it really just screwed with my mind from that point on.   Then the game dragged on and on(which don't get me wrong was fun) then all of a sudden I'm being drowned by multiple variations of my daughter because she wants to wipe out my very existance.  What a bitch.   Call me shallow minded but I was hoping to just gtfon the zeplin, set the course for Paris and fly off into the sunset for some super fun happy times.

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DarkLink77

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#137 DarkLink77
Member since 2004 • 32731 Posts

Reposting a post from another thread on the story and ending for discussion:

[spoiler]

As far as I can figure it, this is how everything goes down:

Booker returns from the war. We have the universe/timeline split at the Baptism.

Our Booker (we'll call him Booker A), rejects the Baptism, becomes a cynical bastard, gambles, and ends up with a huge amount of debt. Then we put universe A on hold for a bit.

Meanwhile, in Universe B, Booker accepts the Baptism, becomes Comstock, and builds Columbia with the Lutece girl. She manages to find her twin in Booker A's reality, and gets him to buy Elizabeth and bring her to their reality. Booker tries to stop it, but he can't, which is how Elizabeth ends up with a severed finger.

Comstock (or Booker B), being the crazy bastard that he is, kills his wife and the Lutece twins to keep his secret. The twins, however, know all this shit anyway because they understand how everything works, feel bad about what they did, and go back and try to fix it by bringing Booker A in at the beginning of the game.

Now here's where it gets complicated.

This has happened an infinite amount of times. Every choice each Booker makes creates a new universe, giving him a new chance to put things right. Remember when the twins would make you make all those random choices? That's why. Each choices spins off a parallel universe. No matter how many times they do this, though, Booker always, always gets stopped by the Songbird before he can get to Elizabeth, which results in some variation of future Elizabeth burning down New York.

However, this time, Booker manages to get to future Elizabeth, who seems him back just in time to prevent her from being brainwashed. They destroy the Siphon, and Elizabeth basically becomes a god.

The problem is, they still have to stop Comstock. Every Comstock. At the same time. Because doing it individually would results in more universes being created because something would inevitably change [ie, the coin flip (which is always, always heads, but if you call tails, boom, another universe) or the pendant choice, killing or sparing Slate, etc] which also creates more realities. And besides, one of the constants in all the universes is that Booker always fails (except in the one Booker A occupies in the game where he succeeds due to Old Lady Elizabeth). 

So to stop everything, they have to go back to the original reality where Booker A (our Booker) chooses to accept the Baptism. They then drown him, preventing any Booker from ever becoming Comstock. Since he died at that moment, all of those universes are never created, and so cease to exist, which is shown when all but one of the Elizabeths disappear (she corresponds to the revised timeline).

So Anna is never sold off, Booker never becomes Comstock, Columbia is never created, the Lutece's never play with quantum mechanics, the deal is never made and none of it ever happens.

Which leaves us with Booker A, who rejects the baptism, in his room, going to check on his daughter, who, if all else holds true, should still be there.

Elizabeth, as we know her, however, ceases to exist.

[/spoiler]

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#138 beganoo
Member since 2009 • 1642 Posts

I think the game could of a done without all alternate dimension bullshit and just kept it simple.    As soon as I started traveling through these tears into alternative realities it really just screwed with my mind from that point on.   Then the game dragged on and on(which don't get me wrong was fun) then all of a sudden I'm being drowned by multiple variations of my daughter because she wants to wipe out my very existance.  What a bitch.   Call me shallow minded but I was hoping to just gtfon the zeplin, set the course for Paris and fly off into the sunset for some super fun happy times.

Crossel777

 

Yeah they did it for shock value entirely. As I said before there are many wasy to stop the baptism. Why did they go straight to drowning (whichs quite a horrible way to get killed) the main charcter which is about 10 times more likeable than Elizabeth to begin with. Maybe try few different options before you take hes life you egotistical bitch. You can have as many trys as you want. You have the powers of both time and dimensional travel.

 

F*ck any idiot that defends this this edning. Its as stupid as it gets.

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DarkLink77

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#139 DarkLink77
Member since 2004 • 32731 Posts

[QUOTE="Crossel777"]

I think the game could of a done without all alternate dimension bullshit and just kept it simple.    As soon as I started traveling through these tears into alternative realities it really just screwed with my mind from that point on.   Then the game dragged on and on(which don't get me wrong was fun) then all of a sudden I'm being drowned by multiple variations of my daughter because she wants to wipe out my very existance.  What a bitch.   Call me shallow minded but I was hoping to just gtfon the zeplin, set the course for Paris and fly off into the sunset for some super fun happy times.

beganoo

 

Yeah they did it for shock value entirely. As I said before there are many wasy to stop the baptism. 

Not to achieve the goal they want to, there aren't.

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#140 beganoo
Member since 2009 • 1642 Posts

[QUOTE="beganoo"]

[QUOTE="Crossel777"]

I think the game could of a done without all alternate dimension bullshit and just kept it simple.    As soon as I started traveling through these tears into alternative realities it really just screwed with my mind from that point on.   Then the game dragged on and on(which don't get me wrong was fun) then all of a sudden I'm being drowned by multiple variations of my daughter because she wants to wipe out my very existance.  What a bitch.   Call me shallow minded but I was hoping to just gtfon the zeplin, set the course for Paris and fly off into the sunset for some super fun happy times.

DarkLink77

 

Yeah they did it for shock value entirely. As I said before there are many wasy to stop the baptism. 

Not to achieve the goal they want to, there aren't.

 

There many ways. If the "1st" baptism was made impossible to exsit nothing of that would have happend. Think of it like that. If killing booker in the right time worked then "klling" the baptism in some way in the right time would have worked too.

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#141 Vaasman
Member since 2008 • 15874 Posts

[QUOTE="Crossel777"]

I think the game could of a done without all alternate dimension bullshit and just kept it simple.    As soon as I started traveling through these tears into alternative realities it really just screwed with my mind from that point on.   Then the game dragged on and on(which don't get me wrong was fun) then all of a sudden I'm being drowned by multiple variations of my daughter because she wants to wipe out my very existance.  What a bitch.   Call me shallow minded but I was hoping to just gtfon the zeplin, set the course for Paris and fly off into the sunset for some super fun happy times.

beganoo

 

Yeah they did it for shock value entirely. As I said before there are many wasy to stop the baptism. Why did they go straight to drowning (whichs quite a horrible way to get killed) the main charcter which is about 10 times more likeable than Elizabeth to begin with. Maybe try few different options before you take hes life you egotistical bitch. You can have as many trys as you want. You have the powers of both time and dimensional travel.

 

F*ck any idiot that defends this this edning. Its as stupid as it gets.

You've confused the ending with yourself.

tumblr_luhhvxOWnF1qbvaudo1_500.gif

Also Rosalin Lutece explains that things get set in motion. Booker states that the only way to be sure is to go back and smother him in his crib. He says that, to Elizabeth, who we can safely assume agreed with the logic.

Stopping the baptism itself doesn't stop the existence of comstock. The Bookers who accept the baptism could just get it done the next day when it's done hitting the fan, or the day after that, or so on. Do you think it would be simpler and better to erase the practice of baptisms from all of existence, or just stop the man they've been going after the entire game at the point where he starts to exist? 

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DarkLink77

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#142 DarkLink77
Member since 2004 • 32731 Posts

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"]

[QUOTE="beganoo"]

 

Yeah they did it for shock value entirely. As I said before there are many wasy to stop the baptism. 

beganoo

Not to achieve the goal they want to, there aren't.

 

There many ways. If the "1st" baptism was made impossible to exsit nothing of that would have happend. Think of it like that. If killing booker in the right time worked then "klling" the baptism in some way in the right time would have worked too.

But then you've changed too much. Okay, so that Booker doesn't get baptized and he doesn't become Comstock. But then he might go do something else, and things might turn out worse, because that version of the man clearly has the potential for that. The point isn't stopping that one terrible thing from happening, the point is stopping all possible terrible things stemming from that moment from happening. And that is the only way to do it.
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#143 Agent-Tojed
Member since 2012 • 160 Posts

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"]

[QUOTE="beganoo"]

 

Yeah they did it for shock value entirely. As I said before there are many wasy to stop the baptism. 

beganoo

Not to achieve the goal they want to, there aren't.

 

There many ways. If the "1st" baptism was made impossible to exsit nothing of that would have happend. Think of it like that. If killing booker in the right time worked then "klling" the baptism in some way in the right time would have worked too.

If Booker wanted to go through the baptism, he would just go to another church to get one. He wouldn't just be like "Oh, guess God doesn't want me to reform. Gonna go gamble."

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#144 beganoo
Member since 2009 • 1642 Posts

[QUOTE="beganoo"]

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"]

Not to achieve the goal they want to, there aren't.

DarkLink77

 

There many ways. If the "1st" baptism was made impossible to exsit nothing of that would have happend. Think of it like that. If killing booker in the right time worked then "klling" the baptism in some way in the right time would have worked too.

But then you've changed too much. Okay, so that Booker doesn't get baptized and he doesn't become Comstock. But then he might go do something else, and things might turn out worse, because that version of the man clearly has the potential for that. The point isn't stopping that one terrible thing from happening, the point is stopping all possible terrible things stemming from that moment from happening. And that is the only way to do it.

 

But we know what happens to him if he doesn't get the babaptism.We play that guy the entire game.They give you 2 optioms in the game baptism or no baptism.Thats why there are just booker and comstok and not like one million of them. Thats why they want to kill him at the baptisum. In no other unvierse he becomes Comstok without the baptisum or atleast they don't show it. Again WE ALREAY know what happens if he didn't took the baptism so they should have just stoped the original baptisum and have him being a insignificant drunk.

 

Also ofcourse there many possibilities but it doen't go just one way.Killing him might bring up even soemthing worst.

 

Who says that someone else can't take hes place if he didn't exist at all and do even more horrible thigs could happen.

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DarkLink77

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#145 DarkLink77
Member since 2004 • 32731 Posts

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"][QUOTE="beganoo"]

 

There many ways. If the "1st" baptism was made impossible to exsit nothing of that would have happend. Think of it like that. If killing booker in the right time worked then "klling" the baptism in some way in the right time would have worked too.

beganoo

But then you've changed too much. Okay, so that Booker doesn't get baptized and he doesn't become Comstock. But then he might go do something else, and things might turn out worse, because that version of the man clearly has the potential for that. The point isn't stopping that one terrible thing from happening, the point is stopping all possible terrible things stemming from that moment from happening. And that is the only way to do it.

 

But we know what happens to him if he doesn't get the babaptism.We play that guy the entire game.They give you 2 optioms in the game baptism or no baptism.Thats why there are just booker and comstok and not like one million of them. Thats why they want to kill him at the baptisum. In no other unvierse he becomes Comstok without the baptisum or atleast they don't show it. Again WE ALREAY know what happens if he didn't took the baptism so they should have just stoped the original baptisum.

 

Also ofcourse there many possibilities but it doen't go just one way.Killing him might bring up even soemthing worst.

 

Who says that someone else can't take hes place if he didn't exist at all and do even more horrible thigs could happen.

Stopping the baptism doesn't change anything if he wanted to go through with it, and that Booker did. Our Booker makes the conscious choice not to. That's the difference. Altering the event wouldn't mean anything if his intentions remained the same.
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#146 RR360DD
Member since 2011 • 14099 Posts

I think the game could of a done without all alternate dimension bullshit and just kept it simple.    As soon as I started traveling through these tears into alternative realities it really just screwed with my mind from that point on.   Then the game dragged on and on(which don't get me wrong was fun) then all of a sudden I'm being drowned by multiple variations of my daughter because she wants to wipe out my very existance.  What a bitch.   Call me shallow minded but I was hoping to just gtfon the zeplin, set the course for Paris and fly off into the sunset for some super fun happy times.

Crossel777

But then where would the link to Bioshock come from? Rapture is one of those alternate realities. Booker is Jack. Comstock is Andrew Ryan. Fontaine is Fitzroy. Elizabeth the little sisters. Songbird the Big Daddies etc etc

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#147 zarshack
Member since 2009 • 9936 Posts

Like i said before in my TL: DR post, I think that there is actually no resolution ever possible in this game. I think when you play the game and you get Booker back to the point where he gets to be with Anna again I think that you were only able to really fix the way things were for that one Booker. I think it is intended with the idea that every single person who is playing it is a different Booker, and at the end all of those other Bookers and Elizabeths are in fact the Booker/ Elizabeths of other peoples games. What i am saying is that each time you play the game you are playing a new Booker in a new universe and at the end you are only stopping the cycle in the universes that are involved with that one Booker.

I know the idea i am putting forward is confusing because the game wants you to believe you can end the whole cycle but that is just impossible with the infinite amount of universes out there and that there is always a constant across those universes but you can't wipe out the constant in one universe and wipe it out in the rest because this isn't just time travel you can't just change something and have it affect the future completely because you only changed the future in one universe and there are still an infinite amount more and the universes are not connected in a way in which you can change them all like that.

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beganoo

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#148 beganoo
Member since 2009 • 1642 Posts

[QUOTE="beganoo"]

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"] But then you've changed too much. Okay, so that Booker doesn't get baptized and he doesn't become Comstock. But then he might go do something else, and things might turn out worse, because that version of the man clearly has the potential for that. The point isn't stopping that one terrible thing from happening, the point is stopping all possible terrible things stemming from that moment from happening. And that is the only way to do it.DarkLink77

 

But we know what happens to him if he doesn't get the babaptism.We play that guy the entire game.They give you 2 optioms in the game baptism or no baptism.Thats why there are just booker and comstok and not like one million of them. Thats why they want to kill him at the baptisum. In no other unvierse he becomes Comstok without the baptisum or atleast they don't show it. Again WE ALREAY know what happens if he didn't took the baptism so they should have just stoped the original baptisum.

 

Also ofcourse there many possibilities but it doen't go just one way.Killing him might bring up even soemthing worst.

 

Who says that someone else can't take hes place if he didn't exist at all and do even more horrible thigs could happen.

Stopping the baptism doesn't change anything if he wanted to go through with it, and that Booker did. Our Booker makes the conscious choice not to. That's the difference. Altering the event wouldn't mean anything if his intentions remained the same.

 

Then why dont they just kill just the orignal booker that becomes Comstok.They kill  our booker that made conscious choice not to ? Clearly there can be more then one of the same person in each unverse. Booker and comstok are prove.

 

Lets say that it all began with to 2 dimensions.In one he becomes comestok and in the other  one doesn't. They just have go to the one where he becomes and end it there.That way you will have to possiblities.One  is a world where booker is a drunk and the other is a world where he doens't exist.

 

It makes no sense no matter how you spin it for a number o reasons.Welcome to quantum physics,multiverses, forking timelines and paradoxes.

The one plot device that is worst even then "it was all a dream"

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#149 zarshack
Member since 2009 • 9936 Posts

Then why dont they just kill just the orignal booker that becomes Comstok.They kill  our booker that made conscious choice not to ? Clearly there can be more then one of the same person in each unverse. Booker and comstok are prove. I would hazzard a guess at them needing Elizabeths powers so that they could actually figure out when they had to kill him to stop it from happening and the luteces didn't know. So the luteces brought Booker from his dimension over so that he could get her powers back by destroying the sipher at the end.

Lets say that it all began with to 2 dimensions.In one he becomes comestok and in the other  one doesn't. They just have go to the one where he becomes and end it there.That way you will have to possiblities.One  is a world where booker is a drunk and the other is a world where he doens't exist. Like i said above, they must not have known when or where in time to go to stop it from happening.

 

It makes no sense no matter how you spin it for a number o reasons.Welcome to quantum physics,multiverses, forking timelines and paradoxes.

The one plot device that is worst even then "it was all a dream"

beganoo

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DarkLink77

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#150 DarkLink77
Member since 2004 • 32731 Posts

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"][QUOTE="beganoo"]

 

But we know what happens to him if he doesn't get the babaptism.We play that guy the entire game.They give you 2 optioms in the game baptism or no baptism.Thats why there are just booker and comstok and not like one million of them. Thats why they want to kill him at the baptisum. In no other unvierse he becomes Comstok without the baptisum or atleast they don't show it. Again WE ALREAY know what happens if he didn't took the baptism so they should have just stoped the original baptisum.

 

Also ofcourse there many possibilities but it doen't go just one way.Killing him might bring up even soemthing worst.

 

Who says that someone else can't take hes place if he didn't exist at all and do even more horrible thigs could happen.

beganoo

Stopping the baptism doesn't change anything if he wanted to go through with it, and that Booker did. Our Booker makes the conscious choice not to. That's the difference. Altering the event wouldn't mean anything if his intentions remained the same.

 

Then why dont they just kill just the orignal booker that becomes Comstok.They kill  our booker that made conscious choice not to ? Clearly there can be more then one of the same person in each unverse. Booker and comstok are prove.

 

Lets say that it all began with to 2 dimensions.In one he becomes comestok and in the other  one doesn't. They just have go to the one where he becomes and end it there.That way you will have to possiblities.One  is a world where booker is a drunk and the other is a world where he doens't exist.

 

It makes no sense no matter how you spin it for a number o reasons.Welcome to quantum physics,multiverses, forking timelines and paradoxes.

The one plot device that is worst even then "it was all a dream"

That's essentially what they did.