BioWare announces Mass Effect 3: Extended Cut

[QUOTE="Ace6301"]Watching Texas get torn apart when debating games he is in love with is always amusing. N30F3N1X

Indeed.

Notice how the thread went from borderline defiant BioWare defense to "there were the same flaws in previous games so you have no right to criticize them now :cry: !".

Hold on, fetching pop corn :lol:

Well that's just how TGR works. Sh*t on past games to make the current game look good. Ace6301

All Mass Effect games are good, excluding the last 10 minutes of ME3.

[QUOTE="N30F3N1X"]

[QUOTE="Ace6301"]Watching Texas get torn apart when debating games he is in love with is always amusing. Ace6301

Indeed.

Notice how the thread went from borderline defiant BioWare defense to "there were the same flaws in previous games so you have no right to criticize them now :cry: !".

Hold on, fetching pop corn :lol:

:lol:

[QUOTE="Ace6301"]

Well that's just how TGR works. Sh*t on past games to make the current game look good. KiZZo1

All Mass Effect games are good, excluding the last 10 minutes of ME3.

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"]Wow Vaasman, you clearly do not get it.... The Reapers normally tap communications because they took the Citadel first...they CAN'T in this cycle so brute force is the alternative. Nevermind that even when they have the Citadel, their communications aren't severed. The entire battle plan is DIFFERENT because they can't take the Citadel first so they go after capital worlds....why? To destroy foolish fleets that try to stop them and to kill their leadership. Notice how weakened the Turian war assets are because of Palaven. Nevermind Arctrus Station, another big Reaper victory. Nevermind the Prothean cycle is very different from the current one. They are NOT facing a homogenized empire with slave species, they are facing a more divided galactic community. Why not pick them off one by one? They ONLY go after the Citadel once they learn of the Crucible. Hell, I can even say they are defeating this galaxy faster than they did the Protheans. And how are the Reapers even know that there is a cure. They don't You are making things up once again. How would they even exploit the cure when really the task is known by only a few people? Its not like they are sending giant communications about the cure galaxy wide. Face it, the thinking of Shepard's crew and the Reaper is on way different lines. Shoulda woulda coulda....by your logic, Soverign should have won...all he had to do was not face Shepard with the Saren husk. The Collectors should have won ME2 as well, why don't they destroy the Normandy after they take the crew? Why not just blast it after the crew is captured with the collector ship? Oh wait...those games aren't ME3.....wis3boi

In 3 there are so many much better ways the Reapers could do what they do that would take way less time and resources and casualties, it's a wonder they can even talk without drool coming out. They could break comm bouys, they could guard all the relays, starve civilizations, cut supplies, gather intel. These aren't super advanced tactics here, this is the kind of extremely basic crap that anyone who has fought any war ever might think to do. And we're talking about the Reapers here. They have spent millions and millions and millions of years doing exactly what they do now. They should be complete and total experts at how to destroy the galaxy in the quickest and most efficient way. Their tactics should operate on a level we can't even fathom.

Instead they just trundle around on the surface hurping and durping their way through homeworlds like there is nothing better to do with their time. Quite the well planned invasion, wasn't it?

.

[QUOTE="wis3boi"][QUOTE="texasgoldrush"]Wow Vaasman, you clearly do not get it.... The Reapers normally tap communications because they took the Citadel first...they CAN'T in this cycle so brute force is the alternative. Nevermind that even when they have the Citadel, their communications aren't severed. The entire battle plan is DIFFERENT because they can't take the Citadel first so they go after capital worlds....why? To destroy foolish fleets that try to stop them and to kill their leadership. Notice how weakened the Turian war assets are because of Palaven. Nevermind Arctrus Station, another big Reaper victory. Nevermind the Prothean cycle is very different from the current one. They are NOT facing a homogenized empire with slave species, they are facing a more divided galactic community. Why not pick them off one by one? They ONLY go after the Citadel once they learn of the Crucible. Hell, I can even say they are defeating this galaxy faster than they did the Protheans. And how are the Reapers even know that there is a cure. They don't You are making things up once again. How would they even exploit the cure when really the task is known by only a few people? Its not like they are sending giant communications about the cure galaxy wide. Face it, the thinking of Shepard's crew and the Reaper is on way different lines. Shoulda woulda coulda....by your logic, Soverign should have won...all he had to do was not face Shepard with the Saren husk. The Collectors should have won ME2 as well, why don't they destroy the Normandy after they take the crew? Why not just blast it after the crew is captured with the collector ship? Oh wait...those games aren't ME3.....Vaasman

In 3 there are so many much better ways the Reapers could do what they do that would take way less time and resources and casualties, it's a wonder they can even talk without drool coming out. They could break comm bouys, they could guard all the relays, starve civilizations, cut supplies, gather intel. These aren't super advanced tactics here, this is the kind of extremely basic crap that anyone who has fought any war ever might think to do. And we're talking about the Reapers here. They have spent millions and millions and millions of years doing exactly what they do now. They should be complete and total experts at how to destroy the galaxy in the quickest and most efficient way. Their tactics should operate on a level we can't even fathom.

Instead they just trundle around on the surface hurping and durping their way through homeworlds like there is nothing better to do with their time. Quite the well planned invasion wasn't it.

-snip-

So, I'll asking again, why are people raging about this ? Not to mention that CDPR is also fixing their ending.svenus97

ME1 fans crapping on ME3...lol Hell, I am only attacking ME1 because you are being HYPOCRITES...texasgoldrush

You attacking ME1 for flaws and plotholes makes you.......? What? A shining example of humanity?

You know, calling people hypocrites when you are being hypocritical is hypocritical.

Hypocritception.

Could you come up with something better to call me already? The h word is starting to lose all of it's meaning.

Vaasman, you clearly do not get it.... The Reapers normally tap communications because they took the Citadel first...they CAN'T in this cycle so brute force is the alternative. Nevermind that even when they have the Citadel, their communications aren't severed. The entire battle plan is DIFFERENT because they can't take the Citadel first so they go after capital worlds....why? To destroy foolish fleets that try to stop them and to kill their leadership. Notice how weakened the Turian war assets are because of Palaven. Nevermind Arctrus Station, another big Reaper victory. Nevermind the Prothean cycle is very different from the current one. They are NOT facing a homogenized empire with slave species, they are facing a more divided galactic community. Why not pick them off one by one? They ONLY go after the Citadel once they learn of the Crucible. Hell, I can even say they are defeating this galaxy faster than they did the Protheans.

And how are the Reapers even know that there is a cure. They don't You are making things up once again. How would they even exploit the cure when really the task is known by only a few people? Its not like they are sending giant communications about the cure galaxy wide. Face it, the thinking of Shepard's crew and the Reaper is on way different lines.

Shoulda woulda coulda....by your logic, Soverign should have won...all he had to do was not face Shepard with the Saren husk. The Collectors should have won ME2 as well, why don't they destroy the Normandy after they take the crew? Why not just blast it after the crew is captured with the collector ship? Oh wait...those games aren't ME3.....texasgoldrush

The whole thing doesn't make sense. The Citadel uses Reapers to do its business every time the cycle starts again, but the Reapers have to "take" the Citadel? Nevermind that, why doesn't the Citadel act on its own? Why use the keepers when it has a will of its own?

The Illusive Man sent his troops to take out Eve so he, and by induction the Reapers, knew what was going on. Considering their big ****ing synthetic brains the Reapers should've guessed what Shepard was aiming at the tower for. Even if they didn't, after the Reaper guard was taken out the rest of the Reaper fleet should have guessed there was something wrong in all of this, and send down somebody else to take a look. Now that I think about it, why was the tower filled with explosions by the way?

What the hell has the Saren husk to do with anything? It's completely irrelevant. Sovereign was under fire from the citadel and alliance fleets, there's no way he could've survived with that much firepower directed at him. And maybe you missed the part where, you know, Joker opens all airlocks and initiates an FTL jump.

You're the one making up your own facts here dude.

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"] Vaasman, you clearly do not get it.... The Reapers normally tap communications because they took the Citadel first...they CAN'T in this cycle so brute force is the alternative. Nevermind that even when they have the Citadel, their communications aren't severed. The entire battle plan is DIFFERENT because they can't take the Citadel first so they go after capital worlds....why? To destroy foolish fleets that try to stop them and to kill their leadership. Notice how weakened the Turian war assets are because of Palaven. Nevermind Arctrus Station, another big Reaper victory. Nevermind the Prothean cycle is very different from the current one. They are NOT facing a homogenized empire with slave species, they are facing a more divided galactic community. Why not pick them off one by one? They ONLY go after the Citadel once they learn of the Crucible. Hell, I can even say they are defeating this galaxy faster than they did the Protheans.

And how are the Reapers even know that there is a cure. They don't You are making things up once again. How would they even exploit the cure when really the task is known by only a few people? Its not like they are sending giant communications about the cure galaxy wide. Face it, the thinking of Shepard's crew and the Reaper is on way different lines.

Shoulda woulda coulda....by your logic, Soverign should have won...all he had to do was not face Shepard with the Saren husk. The Collectors should have won ME2 as well, why don't they destroy the Normandy after they take the crew? Why not just blast it after the crew is captured with the collector ship? Oh wait...those games aren't ME3.....N30F3N1X

The whole thing doesn't make sense. The Citadel uses Reapers to do its business every time the cycle starts again, but the Reapers have to "take" the Citadel? Nevermind that, why doesn't the Citadel act on its own? Why use the keepers when it has a will of its own?

The Illusive Man sent his troops to take out Eve so he, and by induction the Reapers, knew what was going on. Considering their big ****ing synthetic brains the Reapers should've guessed what Shepard was aiming at the tower for. Even if they didn't, after the Reaper guard was taken out the rest of the Reaper fleet should have guessed there was something wrong in all of this, and send down somebody else to take a look. Now that I think about it, why was the tower filled with explosions by the way?

What the hell has the Saren husk to do with anything? It's completely irrelevant. Sovereign was under fire from the citadel and alliance fleets, there's no way he could've survived with that much firepower directed at him. And maybe you missed the part where, you know, Joker opens all airlocks and initiates an FTL jump.

You're the one making up your own facts here dude.

@texasgoldrush i have not even followed this thread but please do not tell me that you actually liked (even a tiny bit) the ending of Me3.
To all those who are fine with the ending.
FACT: the more you now about Me3 the less you like the ending. it is full of contradictions.
but the less you know about the game's lore, the less times you actually played the previous games the more you are going to like the ending.
Mass effect series is one hell of games's series, way more good than most 10hour kiddy violent games out there (exclusive or not) BUT the ending just killed it.
Instead of a great closure we got the PLAGUE of gaming: Multiplayer (even though it plays well)
Multiplayer adds nothing to the traits that make ME what it is.

The Citadel does NOT have a will of its own...in fact the ending shows that Catalyst does NOT have full control of the Reapers as seen during the conversation and the choice, the Reapers still attacking the organic forces. Hell, wait too long, the Reapers DESTROY THE CRUCIBLE, despite the Catalyst leading Shep to make a choice. The Illusive Man gets Reaper implants late in the story...you discover this in Cerebrus HQ. There is no evidence he is indoctrinated before then. The tower was sabatoged, thats why it is exploding. Remember that Datariss reveals that the tower was sabtoged to prevent a cure. What does the Saren husk have to do anything? Notice that when it is killed, Soverign becomes vulnerable and is quickly destoryed afteward. Nevermind that during the battle, the fleet was getting DESTROYED by Soverign. Its even in ME3's codex how he was killed.texasgoldrush

It doesn't matter if it has control over them or not, it ****ing created them. The way the Reapers and the Catalyst work are completely disjointed. That doesn't make any sense.

:lol: Really? He acts the same way all ME3 long. Indoctrination is supposedly a slow and long process but somehow he gets introctrinated all of sudden. Right?

It's "dalatrass". How does the cure work if the tower was sabotaged? Even worse, how did Mordin not realize what was going, to end up consciously giving up his life for it? He's a freaking STG ace and a brilliant scientist!

It's irrelevant what the codex says. How the link between Saren and Sovereign works doesn't make any sense. Sovereign was attaching itself to some tower to take "manual" control of the Citadel's backdoor from dark space. Shepard wants to stop him by using the tool Vigil gives him but guess what, Saren is using the console. Sovereign tells Saren to stop Shepard, Saren kills himself so Sovereign takes him over and retries to stop Shepard.

I'll ignore the plothole regarding Sovereign trying to take control the Citadel for now, let's focus on what happens next. Saren's second form is killed, and Sovereign's shield go down.

Now we have: Sovereign was wiping his ass with the whole citadel fleet and the fifth alliance fleet, then his shields go down, and he dies a brutal and fiery death.

Why do the other Reapers (with their shields online) have a problem annihilating everything? In fact how can they even be scratched by spread out firepower during Earth's invasion if an annoying-mosquito-level reaper's shield could make him impervious to the concentrated firepower of TWO F*CKING FLEETS?

The more I read on the situation. The more it makes me want to sell my Mass Effect Copies.

Can't believe I spent $120 on the series just to find out that what I did meant nothing in the universe.

I was really excited too when I got the game, thinking of all the possible endings there could be by just taking one path, only to find out there's 3 buttons on the end and you could watch them all and find out they're the same thing only with different colors.

The fans shouldn't have been complaining in the first place. The ending was still pretty good.

It's Bioware's game, let them end it the way THEY want to. It's not your game.

You have every right to dislike the ending, but NOT to demand a different one.

Biowares fans act like they're entitled. They throw a hissy fit if the game isn't PERFECT. (Actually, that can be said for most gamers.)

herp derp durrr

GeoffZak

What kind of reasoning is that? They paid for it, they have every right to complain.

And no, the ending was f*cking terrible.

The fans shouldn't have been complaining in the first place. The ending was still pretty good.

It's Bioware's game, let them end it the way THEY want to. It's not your game.

You have every right to dislike the ending, but NOT to demand a different one.

Biowares fans act like they're entitled. They throw a hissy fit if the game isn't PERFECT. (Actually, that can be said for most gamers.)

GeoffZak

What was good about the ending though? It provided zero closure, had some far out there moments and above all things, was riddled with contradictions. Not to mention those endings render anything you did during the last 3 games completey null. Not sure how you think it was pretty good.

This was a problem....and really, attacking the red, blue, green is a misdirected critique. Thats not the problem. The problem is it never shows what effect red, green, blue has on the galaxy effectively. This I expect to be fixed in the extended cut. I think confirmed to be worked on.texasgoldrush

The Catalyst's problem is not that he is introduced late...he is a twist (Hell, Pyramid from Enslaved" Oddysey of the West was introduced in the epilogue and he was the main villian as well, and it worked, however, he does need the fleshing out the Catalyst does). The problem is that the Catalyst lacks detail. He should have probably been given the biggest dialogue tree in the game and had more of a debate with him. This would solve a lot of problems.

Ironically, Javik takes Catalyst's views..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGG3A2jmaTY The Catalyst's motives don't come from out of no where, it was explained much earlier in the game (which does make making Javik day one DLC a bad move), its foreshadowed not only through Javik but the Reaper on Rannoch. And Javik even if their is peace does not think it will last between the geth and quarians. And in Javik's cycle, machines did try to take over. However, you should have been able to argue against the Catalyst using the geth or EDI as examples....thats the mistake.

[QUOTE="Zero_epyon"][QUOTE="Vaasman"]

^

The absolute instense amount of stupidity in that post makes me think that it is in fact you who hasn't played any game in the series and I will no longer acknowledge anything you post ever again. It's obviously a waste of time to.

Vaasman

It's not just about the poison. The point I made was only loosely asking about why they were there in the first place. At best, poisoning the planet only explains why they didn't just knock the whole thing over and say **** it like they did with everything else in the game. It doesn't justify the execution in the slightest.

None of the actions they take make any tactical sense. They don't bother cutting supply lines, or stopping communications, or exploiting communications to see what everyone is up to, they don't bother cutting out the heart the citadel represents right away. More importantly here, they never ever use the resources they have available to ensure their success. Their only semi-reasonable tactic is pure shock and awe, because hurr durr they so stronk. Reapers should know by now that they can in fact die, and just beating everyone down is a hell of a lot riskier than being smart about it even if success is guaranteed either way.

In the case of the genophage cure, they clearly know what the tower does since they attempt to exploit it. But the strategy they use in the situation is completely illogical. First of all, they should know why everyone is fighting their way to the tower. At some point, somewhere along the line, they should have figured out that the genophage cure means krogan support, and krogan support will mean much stronger resistance. So why go through the logistical nightmare of poisoning the planet, when you can break the only tower they can use for the cure, arguably achieving the same goal? Or, how about break the hammers that summon Kalros, which they should know to do because they are hyper intelligent and should understand their opponents strategy and weaknesses, then proceed to do what they want with no dangerous wildlife available.

Or, better yet, send a stronger reaper to cover an ENTIRE planet. Maybe send 2 reapers, there are thousands or tens of thousands available, I'm sure they could spare a single dreadnaught for such an important mission as exterminating a pretty hefty chunk of the remaining military resistance in the galaxy. Sending one other reaper to play buddy cop would completely ensure success. But they don't. They would rather not cover their bases apparently.

TL;DR

Despite each being a nation of a billion minds working together, the Reapers are basically a man with a machine gun, fighting a child with a stick, and all he (they?) can do is fire wildly and drop his ammo on the ground while the kid hits him in the legs. Like, eventually the man wins, clearly, but he did it in the sloppiest and least efficient way possible, even though the man is also Ozymandias.

I'm not sure why I'm discussing this anymore save sheer boredom, but there you go.

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"]The Citadel does NOT have a will of its own...in fact the ending shows that Catalyst does NOT have full control of the Reapers as seen during the conversation and the choice, the Reapers still attacking the organic forces. Hell, wait too long, the Reapers DESTROY THE CRUCIBLE, despite the Catalyst leading Shep to make a choice. The Illusive Man gets Reaper implants late in the story...you discover this in Cerebrus HQ. There is no evidence he is indoctrinated before then. The tower was sabatoged, thats why it is exploding. Remember that Datariss reveals that the tower was sabtoged to prevent a cure. What does the Saren husk have to do anything? Notice that when it is killed, Soverign becomes vulnerable and is quickly destoryed afteward. Nevermind that during the battle, the fleet was getting DESTROYED by Soverign. Its even in ME3's codex how he was killed.N30F3N1X

It doesn't matter if it has control over them or not, it ****ing created them. The way the Reapers and the Catalyst work are completely disjointed. That doesn't make any sense.

:lol: Really? He acts the same way all ME3 long. Indoctrination is supposedly a slow and long process but somehow he gets introctrinated all of sudden. Right?

It's "dalatrass". How does the cure work if the tower was sabotaged? Even worse, how did Mordin not realize what was going, to end up consciously giving up his life for it? He's a freaking STG ace and a brilliant scientist!

It's irrelevant what the codex says. How the link between Saren and Sovereign works doesn't make any sense. Sovereign was attaching itself to some tower to take "manual" control of the Citadel's backdoor from dark space. Shepard wants to stop him by using the tool Vigil gives him but guess what, Saren is using the console. Sovereign tells Saren to stop Shepard, Saren kills himself so Sovereign takes him over and retries to stop Shepard.

I'll ignore the plothole regarding Sovereign trying to take control the Citadel for now, let's focus on what happens next. Saren's second form is killed, and Sovereign's shield go down.

Now we have: Sovereign was wiping his ass with the whole citadel fleet and the fifth alliance fleet, then his shields go down, and he dies a brutal and fiery death.

Why do the other Reapers (with their shields online) have a problem annihilating everything? In fact how can they even be scratched by spread out firepower during Earth's invasion if an annoying-mosquito-level reaper's shield could make him impervious to the concentrated firepower of TWO F*CKING FLEETS?

Do we know how much the Extended Cut will cost yet, for those who don't currently own the game? Planeforger

Ironically, Javik takes Catalyst's views..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGG3A2jmaTY The Catalyst's motives don't come from out of no where, it was explained much earlier in the game (which does make making Javik day one DLC a bad move), its foreshadowed not only through Javik but the Reaper on Rannoch. And Javik even if their is peace does not think it will last between the geth and quarians. And in Javik's cycle, machines did try to take over. However, you should have been able to argue against the Catalyst using the geth or EDI as examples....thats the mistake.texasgoldrush

Small comment, while Javik does help lessen the blow, Bioware should have been implying this deadly dance between synethetics in all 3 games. It was there in ME, as Geth were the primary enemy, but nearly absent in ME2 (Which humanized the Geth actually, making it clear the main Geth collective didn't agree with the heretics).

The problem with using Javik as evidence is he is also introduced late into the overarching ME3 story. In many ways, it seems that his role is to quickly flesh out a conflict that had merely been hinted at before.

Furthermore, asmall side mission in ME1 had one AI character say something along the lines that organics races only seek to control or destroy synthetics.

http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Citadel:_Signal_Tracking

I'd be careful about throwing out the fact Javik fought synthetics as evidence - knowing now the Protheans were a very cut throat empire, it's not hard to imagine them launching the first blow. Without context is hard to say, and Javik hardly seems like an unbiased source.

No, The Illusive Man is like Saren, he may be on the path to indoctrination, however, implants seal the deal to where the Reapers now control him. Notice how Mordin finds the sabatoge (in which the dalatrass predicted he would) and fixes it where the cure can be released, which kills him in the process? Or did you miss details. Another make believe plot hole of yours. "Why do the other Reapers (with their shields online) have a problem annihilating everything? In fact how can they even be scratched by spread out firepower during Earth's invasion if an annoying-mosquito-level reaper's shield could make him impervious to the concentrated firepower of TWO F*CKING FLEETS?" Thanix tech, made from soverign secretly by the turians give fleets a chance to destroy Reapers....texasgoldrush

Ridiculous. Saren was introctrinated from the beginning of the game. The Illusive Man would have never accepted Reaper implants knowing the effectiveness of the indoctrination.

And well well well...

http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Priority:_Tuchanka#The_Shroud

With all opposition from the Reapers destroyed, Shepard and the convoy approach the Shroud. However, the Shroud sustained damage in the fight against the Reaper - it is falling to pieces as Shepard and Mordin approach.MEwiki

The tower exploding has nothing to do with the sabotage. "Make believe plothole of mine" :lol: Sorry dude, you just got f*cking pwned.

the final mission sequence was perfection, the against all odds theme was captured flawlessly, the ending sequence was admirable, they took many risks and I feel they failed in some respects,

one of my favorite aspects of the trilogy waas the characters, I expected some form of individual closure for EACH and EVERY one of the crew members; if I took the time to get to know each character of the extended crew with dialogue, mission dialogue, loyalty missions, etc, I demand to know what happens to them, that is aprt of the reason i played through the game. instead, there is just some BS scene that makes absolutely no sense with the normandy at the end.

and shepard breathing in the extended scene? how the FFFUUU could that be possible? contradiction galore.

overall though probably best game of the year by far.

Too late. I already finished the fight!

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"]Ironically, Javik takes Catalyst's views..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGG3A2jmaTY The Catalyst's motives don't come from out of no where, it was explained much earlier in the game (which does make making Javik day one DLC a bad move), its foreshadowed not only through Javik but the Reaper on Rannoch. And Javik even if their is peace does not think it will last between the geth and quarians. And in Javik's cycle, machines did try to take over. However, you should have been able to argue against the Catalyst using the geth or EDI as examples....thats the mistake.Kickinurass

Small comment, while Javik does help lessen the blow, Bioware should have been implying this deadly dance between synethetics in all 3 games. It was there in ME, as Geth were the primary enemy, but nearly absent in ME2 (Which humanized the Geth actually, making it clear the main Geth collective didn't agree with the heretics).

The problem with using Javik as evidence is he is also introduced late into the overarching ME3 story. In many ways, it seems that his role is to quickly flesh out a conflict that had merely been hinted at before.

Furthermore, asmall side mission in ME1 had one AI character say something along the lines that organics races only seek to control or destroy synthetics.

http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Citadel:_Signal_Tracking

I'd be careful about throwing out the fact Javik fought synthetics as evidence - knowing now the Protheans were a very cut throat empire, it's not hard to imagine them launching the first blow. Without context is hard to say, and Javik hardly seems like an unbiased source.

[QUOTE="Ace6301"]

Well that's just how TGR works. Sh*t on past games to make the current game look good. KiZZo1

All Mass Effect games are good, excluding the last 10 minutes of ME3.

[QUOTE="KiZZo1"]

[QUOTE="Ace6301"]

Well that's just how TGR works. Sh*t on past games to make the current game look good. Ace6301

All Mass Effect games are good, excluding the last 10 minutes of ME3.

The fans shouldn't have been complaining in the first place. The ending was still pretty good.

It's Bioware's game, let them end it the way THEY want to. It's not your game.

You have every right to dislike the ending, but NOT to demand a different one.

Biowares fans act like they're entitled. They throw a hissy fit if the game isn't PERFECT. (Actually, that can be said for most gamers.)

GeoffZak

The ending made the game have no replay value. That's what fans are complaining about. Hopefully Extended Ending changes that.

[QUOTE="Ace6301"][QUOTE="KiZZo1"]

All Mass Effect games are good, excluding the last 10 minutes of ME3.

texasgoldrush

People ignored the flaws in the first 2 games because they're not as big as you're making them be. Also we were told that this game would be a trilogy since the first game so everyone had REALLY HIGH expectations for this Grand Finale everyone thought they were going to get.

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"][QUOTE="Ace6301"] I'm aware of that. What I said is exactly what TGR does though, he's done it in every topic I think I've ever seen him participate in to the point where it seems to be the only way he's capable of forming an argument. For instance here people are bringing up plot holes about the ending and a few other plot holes present in the game. What does he do? Brings up plot holes in the other games as if it changes anything. He's also trying to defend ME3s plot holes but doing a poor job of it where again he falls back on deflection to try and cover his loses (as if it matters).LegatoSkyheart

People ignored the flaws in the first 2 games because they're not as big as you're making them be. Also we were told that this game would be a trilogy since the first game so everyone had REALLY HIGH expectations for this Grand Finale everyone thought they were going to get.

If they are not that big of flaws, than why did Bioware attempt to address it? Look at the combat between the games...ME1 was criticized bad for its combat, hence the change. ME2 was criticized for lack of interaction between squadmates....fixed in ME3. No matter the "excuse", its still double standards....texasgoldrush

wait you're talking about those "flaws"?

I thought you were talking about "Flaws" in the story like what most fans are complaining about the ending.

The ending made the game have no replay value. That's what fans are complaining about. Hopefully Extended Ending changes that.LegatoSkyheart

[QUOTE="LegatoSkyheart"]

The ending made the game have no replay value. That's what fans are complaining about. Hopefully Extended Ending changes that.SciFiRPGfan

[QUOTE="Kickinurass"]

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"]Ironically, Javik takes Catalyst's views..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGG3A2jmaTY The Catalyst's motives don't come from out of no where, it was explained much earlier in the game (which does make making Javik day one DLC a bad move), its foreshadowed not only through Javik but the Reaper on Rannoch. And Javik even if their is peace does not think it will last between the geth and quarians. And in Javik's cycle, machines did try to take over. However, you should have been able to argue against the Catalyst using the geth or EDI as examples....thats the mistake.texasgoldrush

Small comment, while Javik does help lessen the blow, Bioware should have been implying this deadly dance between synethetics in all 3 games. It was there in ME, as Geth were the primary enemy, but nearly absent in ME2 (Which humanized the Geth actually, making it clear the main Geth collective didn't agree with the heretics).

The problem with using Javik as evidence is he is also introduced late into the overarching ME3 story. In many ways, it seems that his role is to quickly flesh out a conflict that had merely been hinted at before.

Furthermore, asmall side mission in ME1 had one AI character say something along the lines that organics races only seek to control or destroy synthetics.

http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Citadel:_Signal_Tracking

I'd be careful about throwing out the fact Javik fought synthetics as evidence - knowing now the Protheans were a very cut throat empire, it's not hard to imagine them launching the first blow. Without context is hard to say, and Javik hardly seems like an unbiased source.

Ah, I mistakeny said ME3. I meant Javik was introduced late into the overall ME story, thus his role seems merely to flesh out a conflict that hadn't really been addressed. He gives me the feeling that writers decided on the ending for ME3, then went back and added him as way to help explain the situation. Not a bad thing, but it doesn't feel like the writers behind ME had a clear story for the trilogy. If this organic - synthetic mess had proper build up amongst all 3 games, I don't think people would be complaining that much.

I don't know what the first sentence has to do with anything. We can throw hypotheticals around all day - wouldn't really get anywhere. All I'm saying is Javik's word shouldn't be thrown around as though it's infallible. Without context, it's poor form to include it as an argument.